Log for #openttd on 9th June 2016:
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09:19:24  <Samu> hi
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10:05:48  <Wolf01> o/
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10:13:03  <Samu> what the heck
10:13:24  <Samu> roadrunner has access to vehicle models way before they're introduced
10:13:56  <Samu> perry mail truck in 1990?
10:14:02  <Samu> i'm not using any newgrf
10:14:13  <Samu> foster mkii bus
10:14:31  <Samu> how could this happen?
10:15:26  <Samu> i just created a company to see if i had those models available, I don't
10:15:40  <Samu> is this a bug?
10:17:19  <Samu> omg, no wonder he was getting quite the profits
10:17:24  <Samu> unacceptable
10:20:43  <Samu> is this some hidden NoAI feature of some sorts?
10:20:53  <Samu> or a bug?
10:21:42  <Samu> to whom do I report?
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10:29:18  <Samu> about 25% of all his vehicles are models which weren't supposed to be available
10:29:37  <Samu> that's a huge chunk, considering 25% of 5000 vehicles
10:34:52  <Samu> grain, mail, pass
10:34:57  <Alkel_U3> that's at least 12
10:36:05  <Samu> i must check when did he start cheating, it's been 14 years at least
10:36:17  <Samu> the oldest model i can find of a vehicle
10:37:12  <Samu> roadrunner is disclassified, I can't take these tests
10:41:50  <peter1138> gamelog
10:47:14  <Samu> there are more models affected
10:47:29  <Samu> those from mid 75-80
10:47:37  <Samu> checking his savegames
10:48:08  <Samu> chcking year 1973 and he already is using vehicle models that are only designed in 1980
10:52:11  <Samu> Revision text changed to 1.6.1-RC1, savegame version 195, not modified, _openttd_newgrf_version = 0x16106bcd
10:52:17  <Samu> from a random loaded save
10:56:08  <Samu> looks like keeping all savegames monthly was the best thing I've ever done
10:56:50  <Samu> he's cheating in 1970, i ony found out in 1991
10:57:52  <Samu> still cheating in 1965
11:00:00  <Samu> not cheating in 1955, I'm getting close to the year he started cheating
11:07:25  <Samu> i found it
11:07:26  <Samu> RoadRunner, 1st Jan 1957.sav
11:07:35  <Samu> first time he cheats
11:08:06  <Samu> where do I report this? forum or flyspray?
11:15:08  <_dp_> hm, wonder how it does that, at least in 1.6.0 availability checks seem to be fine
11:15:42  <_dp_> are you sure, you're using freshly generated map, without any modifications?
11:16:10  <_dp_> like using dates cheat could break vehicle availability
11:16:57  <Samu> no cheating, but I'm creating a post on the forum about this
11:17:15  <Samu> will upload the config
11:17:46  <Samu> it was a randomly generated map
11:18:04  <Samu> well, not so random, i used a fixed seed
11:18:18  <Samu> but all the other AIs are not cheating like him
11:19:53  <_dp_> also, are you using unmodified openttd? or with some patches like yours max_ai
11:20:04  <Samu> i'm using 1.6.1-RC1
11:20:28  <Samu> i used convert.exe util from glx, he says it changes openttd.exe into gui mode
11:22:25  <Samu> not using anything else
11:22:37  <Samu> roadrunner v9
11:25:18  <_dp_> sounds legit)
11:26:47  <Samu> downloaded from banana
11:35:28  <Samu> posted
11:43:59  <Samu> from my side, I'm going to clean up those server folders
11:44:23  <Samu> I don't know if different versions of OpenTTD can affect something like this
11:45:04  <Samu> that folder was originally 1.6.0-RC1 if I recall, then i only replaced the .exe file
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13:04:00  <supermop_> yo
13:05:26  <greeter> greetings supermop_
13:10:55  <planetmaker> <Samu> that folder was originally 1.6.0-RC1 if I recall, then i only replaced the .exe file <-- do not replace the exe file. OpenTTD comes as a bundle with all files included for a reason
13:20:30  <Samu> oh :(
13:21:21  <Samu> ok, then i will redo the test
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13:39:16  <Samu> server can't start, says its missing baseset grrr
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13:40:08  <greeter> i had that issue too, i just installed openttd-opengfx from the repos and it started no problem
13:40:37  <greeter> oh, but you're on windows, hmm
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13:43:53  <Samu> alright, it started
13:45:52  <greeter> awesome :-D
13:49:12  <Samu> erm, duh im dumb, not using the ais yet
13:49:18  <Samu> brb
13:50:33  <Samu> oops, i closed the wrong server... great,
13:50:41  <Samu> I seriously am blind
13:51:28  <greeter> welcome to my world :-S
13:52:14  <Samu> so i closed AIAI server by mistake
13:52:21  <Samu> got to repeat it
13:52:26  <Samu> oh well
13:55:48  <greeter> i got a question maybe somebody here can answer. is the openttd logo released under a creative commons or similar license? i'm writing an article about openttd and i'd like to use an image of the logo
13:58:06  <Samu> while I'm at it, i'm gonna clean up the other 3 servers
13:58:21  <Samu> fresh bundle
14:08:20  <Samu> cleaned up servers 2, 3, 5, 6
14:08:28  <Samu> the others are still running
14:08:42  <Samu> server 2 restarted, it's roadrunner
14:08:47  <Samu> fresh
14:09:27  <Samu> server 6 restarted, it's AIAI, fresh. closed it by mistake, got to repeat... :o
14:10:57  <greeter> lol fun stuff
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14:13:38  <Samu> plarbourne transport is not the name of roadrunner, wtf am i doing wrong
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14:17:30  <Samu> why did it start rocketAI?
14:17:38  <Samu> ... i have it configured to start RoadRunner
14:17:42  <Samu> ... grrr
14:18:53  <Samu> ah i see, it changed the config to none
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14:19:03  <greeter> greetings Alberth
14:19:10  <Alberth> moin
14:19:25  <greeter> what's up?
14:19:59  <Samu> nothing, just me being really dumb today
14:20:50  <Alberth> about roadrunner?
14:21:13  <Alberth> I would find it weird if an AI could get models before them being designed
14:21:19  <Alberth> what does that mean?
14:21:23  <greeter> well i know the feeling Samu except with me it isn't exclusive to certain days
14:21:40  <Samu> i am repeating the test Alberth
14:22:02  <Alberth> ok, but when is a model "designed" for you?
14:22:40  <Samu> roadrunner in 1957 had Perry Mail Truck already available for purchase
14:22:52  <greeter> what the? my newgrf got downloaded 132 times?!
14:23:09  <Samu> it's a 2020 or 2030 model
14:23:48  <Alberth> that's a lot of years :)
14:24:08  <Samu> let me load that save again, i can see in the list of purchasable vehicles
14:24:23  <Alberth> the "exclusive preview" also holds for AIs, so that could be a reason for an AI having things before you
14:24:39  <Alberth> but that shouldn't be 50 years or so
14:25:06  <Alberth> greeter: either bots, or "download everything" users :)
14:25:30  <greeter> ok that makes sense
14:25:53  <greeter> only two other people have joined the server i use the newgrf on so i couldn't figure out how more than 100 others would be downloading it lol
14:25:56  <Alberth> automagic updating of newgrf collection could be another reason
14:26:12  <greeter> ok
14:28:04  <Samu> oh, perry mail truck, 2019 design
14:28:15  <Samu> game is 1990 yet
14:28:29  <Samu> roadrunner company does have it available
14:28:44  <Samu> when i create a new company, i don't see it available
14:28:58  <Samu> i moved myself into roadrunner company
14:29:07  <Samu> i can see what's available for him
14:29:14  <Samu> unfair advantage
14:30:42  <Samu> not all of these models appeared at once, it started with perry mail truck in 1957, then i think a few years later, another model
14:31:03  <Samu> seems like a bug or exploit
14:31:10  <Alberth> it does indeed
14:32:34  <Samu> the1980 livestock truck was also available when i was investigating a save from 1973
14:33:36  <Samu> there was also the grain truck from the 2010
14:34:00  <Samu> can't be certain about their design dates, but i know it was the 3rd refresh model
14:34:03  <Alberth> I wonder how it gets that
14:37:46  <_dp_> did anyone try cheating into that company and see available trucks?
14:38:03  <_dp_> mb availability masks got corrupted somehow
14:39:04  <Samu> let me check log
14:40:31  <Samu> other than me spectating, there were 4 other clients
14:40:45  <Samu> nothing strange from what i see
14:41:09  <Samu> frame 665789
14:41:19  <Samu> what year or date is this?
14:41:36  <_dp_> Samu, that's not what I meant, move yourself into that company and check available trucks
14:42:16  <Samu> ah, see if someone cheated?
14:42:26  <Samu> hmm, i see an autoclean
14:42:56  <Samu>  when someone joined and created a company, frame 665881
14:43:01  <Samu> then he left
14:43:05  <Samu> and company was autoclean
14:44:19  <Samu> do you know approximately which year, month is frame 665881? server started in 1950
14:46:20  <Samu> there was another autoclean, but that was already me, when i found out roadrunner was cheating
14:46:32  <Samu> so, only 2 companies
14:46:39  <Samu> other than the AI, were created
14:47:28  <Samu> dbg: [net] [server] Client connected from on frame 665881 ‎*** Mark Tracey has joined the game (Client #4) ‎*** Mark Tracey has started a new company (#2) ‎*** Mark Tracey has left the game (leaving) dbg: [net] Closed client connection 4 Auto-cleaned company #2 with no vehicles
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14:49:03  <Samu> 1 day = 74 frames?
14:49:18  <Samu> x days = 665881 frames
14:50:16  <Samu> 665881/74 = 8998 days
14:50:37  <_dp_> did roadrunner start with same company id (#2) as that autocleaned one?
14:50:51  <Samu> 8998 / 365 = about 24 years into the game
14:51:02  <Samu> roadrunner was cheating in the 7th year
14:51:18  <Samu> no, roadrunner started first before everyone else
14:51:40  <Samu> on company #1
14:52:01  <Samu> or 0 in code language
14:52:30  <_dp_> then I hardly doubt any other companies matter
14:56:30  <Samu> client 1 is server, client 2 is me with a spectator instance
14:56:45  <Samu> client 3 has the same IP address as client 4, Mark Tracey
14:57:10  <Samu> frame 665789
15:00:42  <_dp_> convenience savegame bump they said...
15:00:51  * _dp_ waiting for 1.6.1 to compile...
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15:05:36  <Samu> i found the saves with mark tracey transport
15:06:08  <Samu> september, october, november 1974
15:06:13  <Samu> then no more
15:06:30  <_dp_> if (e == NULL || e->preview_company != _current_company) return CMD_ERROR;
15:07:00  <_dp_> does that mean company with 0 id can always accept a preview?
15:07:59  <_dp_> ah, probably not, should be initialized to INVALID_COMPANY
15:13:25  <Samu> Mark Tracey available vehicles are fine
15:13:42  <Samu> nothing strange
15:15:35  <Samu> there's no more MPS Regal bus
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15:18:00  <Samu> oh nevermind, it's fine, mps regal bus is retired model
15:18:09  <Samu> on both companies
15:18:21  <Samu> retirement seems to be working
15:19:09  <_dp_> I think I found the root of the problem, or, rather both roots ^^, verifying now
15:19:42  <Samu> :)
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15:30:22  <_dp_> ok, it's too hard to verify completely but preview_company is being initialized with 0 instead of INVALID_COMPANY
15:30:36  <_dp_> meaning company 0 can accept preview without being asked for it
15:30:57  <_dp_> and roadrunner spams preview acceptance because of missing break in switch ^^
15:31:26  <Samu> nice find
15:33:11  <Samu> but how could it accept models that are years away
15:33:21  <Samu> weird
15:35:38  <_dp_> year doesn't matter here, game thinks in already asked this company for preview, so year was checked
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16:59:18  <Alberth> hola
17:02:34  <frosch123> moi
17:03:47  <supermop_> yo
17:04:54  <greeter> greetings
17:14:09  <Samu> i just caught roadrunner cheating again
17:14:24  <Samu> fresh bundle
17:14:34  <Samu> so, that's it, it's a bug in openttd
17:14:50  <Samu> stopping his server again
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17:15:16  <Samu> this time it's with wood trucks
17:18:45  <Samu> foster wood truck in 1962
17:21:49  <Samu> it's only available in 1974
17:23:35  <Samu> thx _dp_ when will it get fixed?
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17:24:10  <_dp_> Samu, ask devs, not me ;)
17:24:33  <glx> availability is not a fixed date IIRC
17:24:56  <glx> maybe it got the preview
17:26:28  <_dp_> glx, I already explained most likely cause, check logs
17:35:36  <Samu> hmm, since I'm in the mood for it, gonna do a 3rd test, RoadRunner will be on Company #2 instead
17:36:20  <greeter> :-D
17:37:50  <Alberth> glx: it's 50-80 years preview then :p
17:38:09  <glx> I didn't check the source
17:38:49  <Alberth> partly caused by samu's patch, as he allowed it to be company 0 as being an AI
17:39:17  <Samu> I didn't use my patch
17:39:30  <Alberth> :O
17:39:42  <Alberth> how did company 0 then become an AI ?
17:39:46  <Samu> it was on a dedicated server, first company that started was AI, it took company #1
17:41:33  <Samu> version was 1.6.1-RC1
17:47:17  <frosch123> <- do you want something like that?
17:49:47  <_dp_> frosch123, no, that's wrong
17:50:17  <frosch123> well, i can't be bothered to read the logs
17:50:23  <frosch123> the signal to noise ratio is too low
17:50:27  <_dp_> frosch123, isn't ENGINE_EXCLUSIVE_PREVIEW flag set for almost any engine ?
17:50:49  <frosch123> i think it is set when the preview is offered first, and cleared when it expires
17:51:10  <_dp_> frosch123, problem is  e->preview_company is initialized with 0 instead of INVALID_COMPANY
17:51:53  <_dp_> frosch123, hm, mv it will work then...
17:51:59  <_dp_> mb
17:52:17  <_dp_> got myself a nice maglev on mp server with this cheat btw ^^
17:55:26  <frosch123> <- is that better?
17:56:00  <_dp_> frosch123, I'd say yes
17:56:46  <_dp_> frosch123, even though I checked for ENGINE_EXCLUSIVE_PREVIEW usage and looks like your first patch would work fine too
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18:00:15  <frosch123> the _PREVIEW is for existing savegames
18:00:26  <frosch123> the constructor thing to make stuff more sane for the future
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18:13:35  <greeter> hmm, wonder how well transporting valuables by cargo ship is going to work...
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18:32:08  <Samu> brb dinner
18:50:19  <_dp_> btw, it's also funny how roadrunner got this bug. in event switch it has no break after industry closing event handling so it it also interprets it as preview event which it ofc accepts xD
18:51:24  <_dp_> somehow that doesn't crash and sometime it gets new useful vehicle with it
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18:56:09  <_dp_> so, using Convert on wrong event type should probably fail in GS
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19:05:01  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27598 trunk/src/engine.cpp (2016-06-09 21:04:53 +0200 )
19:05:02  <DorpsGek> -Fix: Company 0 could accept engine previews before they were offered.
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19:11:49  <Rubidium> nice find
19:13:02  <greeter> hmm
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19:17:55  <Wolf01> V453000, hype?
19:18:48  <V453000> as fuck
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19:20:00  <Wolf01> andythenorth, cat?
19:20:08  <andythenorth> yup
19:23:59  <Wolf01> meh, I'm stuck with the trailer, not enough space and everything is wobbly
19:24:48  <Wolf01> lol... what happened here? :'D
19:27:46  <Wolf01> this is fantastic
19:36:41  <Alkel_U3> whoa, nice :-)
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19:37:53  <Alkel_U3> especially the finished follow-up
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19:43:23  <greeter> this is why i can't play with normal people :-P
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19:44:47  <supermop_> because of the X crossovers?
19:45:20  <andythenorth> also the sprites :P
19:46:00  <greeter> well i'm thinking there's gotta be a better way to construct that link
19:47:07  <greeter> but it's working so i can't complain :-)
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19:49:24  <supermop_> are all three platforms at new maryland woods bi-directional? and do trains from keenan siding need to go to all platforms?
19:49:54  <Alkel_U3> remember how the wood trucks were on topic?
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19:50:33  <Eddi|zuHause> tetris extreme :p
19:51:02  <greeter> supermop_: yes to both
19:51:09  <supermop_> i really cant tell what the intended service patterns are at and between the stations, so no idea if the connection is practical or not
19:51:11  <greeter> lol Eddi|zuHause
19:51:42  <greeter> oh wait, actually, what it is, the forest sends wood up to a sawmill, and that connection is to allow for a goods truck to take the goods from the sawmill to new maryland woods
19:51:44  <Alkel_U3> yeah, they played tetris from hell and won
19:52:34  <supermop_> where is the sawmill?
19:53:41  <greeter> it's way off the screen, about 120 tiles away, although i had to go around a large lake to get there
19:54:16  <Alkel_U3> I forgot how damn frustrating this thing is
19:54:52  <greeter> hmm. i wonder if that's anything like bastet for linux (no flash, i can't check out that site)
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19:56:22  <Alkel_U3> no, much worse
19:56:39  <V453000> XD
19:56:49  <greeter> oh that lol, i've seen youtube clips of similar games. i figured it was either like bastet or it was like that
19:57:10  <greeter> back when i was on my tetris kick, i would play bastet to try to improve my skills at the game. didn't help, still lousy at tetris lol
19:58:41  <Alkel_U3> I remember playing bastet for a while - I even came up with a strategy how to fool the game into thinking I expect different pieces than I want but already forgot all that
19:59:31  <Eddi|zuHause> what exactly does bastet do?
19:59:51  <Alkel_U3> it always tries to give you the worst possible piece
19:59:56  <peter1138> gives you exactly the wrong piece
20:00:08  <greeter> it only does this 6/7 of the time though, so that you can't always predict the next piece
20:00:25  <greeter> for those people like me that played it on hard mode :-P
20:00:47  <Eddi|zuHause> well "wrong" is usually one of the dual-corner things
20:01:00  <Alkel_U3> also, no Flash? Flash Projector :-)
20:01:21  <Alkel_U3> not always
20:01:34  <Eddi|zuHause> more often than not :p
20:01:45  <Alkel_U3> well, that's true :-)
20:03:23  <andythenorth> “Flash is bad, mhok”
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20:04:46  <greeter> andythenorth: sounds like my attitude lol, especially since adobe has basically told linux users to get lost as far as flash is concerned
20:05:52  <Alkel_U3> flash outside the browser, as standalone application is tolerable, imho (I don't like letting all the old good flash games go to waste)
20:06:07  <andythenorth> I used to make them
20:06:16  <andythenorth> I made maybe 30 or 40 or so
20:06:23  <andythenorth> now I can’t see my old work :)
20:06:39  <andythenorth> flash has been a provable malware vector, I’m done with it
20:06:46  <andythenorth> very high level of CVEs
20:07:09  <greeter> well plus there's the fact that html5 is a good replacement for a lot of stuff that flash used to do, like videos
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20:07:44  <greeter> the fact that both facebook and youtube ditched flash last year is an indicator to me that flash is on the way out. in the next year or two they'll do a final release and it'll be EOL
20:08:09  <Alkel_U3> plus it gave some people ideas they should make their web completely in flash :-)
20:08:32  <glx> silly people ;)
20:08:47  <greeter> lol yeah, i remember the days when there were a number of sites like that
20:09:07  <greeter> i was lucky to live in town back the and be on dsl, but anyone outside the town limits was on dialup, they were out of luck for using such websites
20:10:16  <Alkel_U3> and stuff has to move around and make sound and... basicaly clients from hell stories :D
20:10:55  <andythenorth> eh, I used to make flash sites in about 30KB
20:11:04  <glx> I hate video autoplay
20:11:15  <andythenorth> a .swf was no larger than the equivalent html for the same page structure
20:11:16  <greeter> indeed. kind of glad linux ditched flash. before then you either had to have it or miss half of what anyone wanted to show you, and that would mean websites would auto play obnoxious advertising with background music and everything when you were trying to listen to your own audio files
20:11:22  <andythenorth> and often looked a hell of a lot better
20:11:50  <andythenorth> nothing wrong with accessible, keyboard navigable flash
20:11:58  <greeter> interesting. not a lot of people did that for the flash only sites i went to though. they'd be like 500kb to 1mb pages, again, because of all the flashiness (no pun intended) or background audio
20:11:58  <andythenorth> except the entire formta
20:12:11  <andythenorth> that wasn’t the flash, it was the assets
20:12:14  <andythenorth> can do the same with html
20:12:21  <andythenorth> also they were numpties
20:13:03  <greeter> ah, good point. but still, it gave flash a bad name, at least around here
20:14:03  <andythenorth> it’s a dead tech
20:14:15  <greeter> and i'll be crashing the funeral for the sandwiches :-P
20:14:26  <Samu> flash was a problem for me on windows 7 and this motherboard
20:14:31  <Samu> sound was going mute
20:14:44  <andythenorth> such weird problems windows users have
20:14:45  <greeter> kind of ironic, we basically had the opposite problems with flash
20:14:47  <Samu> thx to flash video playback with drm issues
20:14:55  <andythenorth> mac users have simple problems, like non-working wifi
20:15:01  <greeter> lol
20:15:19  <andythenorth> there’s never a weird mac problem, they’re always basic
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20:15:52  <Samu> i remember complaining about openttd music sound going mute.
20:16:01  <Samu> or delayed
20:16:08  <andythenorth> oh musc doesn’t work on the mac version of openttd :)
20:16:10  <Samu> turns out it was adobe flash
20:16:14  <andythenorth> music *
20:16:28  <Alkel_U3> D:
20:16:29  <greeter> i never could get openttd music to work properly. sound effects were fine. i just mute both these days, i like to put on my own music or listen to the radio instead
20:16:40  <Alkel_U3> what's the point playing it, then
20:16:54  <greeter> you saying there's no point to playing openttd without sound?
20:16:58  <Samu> it was rather a culmination of 3 applications
20:17:16  <Alkel_U3> sure, the soundtrack is essential :-)
20:17:23  <Samu> openttd, my webbrowser with flash plugin and another background application that hooks the microphone
20:17:40  <greeter> lol i see. well i enjoy a muted openttd just fine
20:18:25  <Alkel_U3> well, I don't use the ingame music lately, anyway, but only since I found the new completely remastered soundtrack from Transport Tycoon for mobiles :-)
20:19:11  <Samu> ah, i remember, msi afterburner
20:19:17  <Samu> yeah, it was recording sound
20:19:55  <Alkel_U3> hearing the sountrack played by and arranged for "real" instruments was one of my lifelong wishes come true
20:20:11  <Samu> there's still midi support on windows 10, btw
20:20:12  <greeter> hmm that'd be pretty cool actually
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20:21:39  <Samu> forgot the name of that thing microsoft uses to build the sound stream
20:22:29  <Samu> that thing was being clogged up to the point cpu usage was always 12.5%, sound stream mixing couldn't be queued properly
20:23:01  <Alkel_U3> I was trying really hard to replace the system soundfont with something better back on windows 7, with varying levels of success (the working states were way too cpu intensive). One of the things that got easier for me with switching to linux
20:23:47  <Samu> it eventually made the sound service stop
20:23:55  <Samu> and i had no more sound for the rest of that window session
20:23:57  <Samu> windows*
20:24:53  <Samu> the bug, apparently was derived from flash videos being played, with drm parts in the sound
20:25:14  <Samu> and msi attempting to "listen to the sound device" for recording
20:25:20  <Samu> msi afterburner
20:25:43  <greeter> sounds like something used in a military fighter jet
20:26:19  <Samu> msi afterburner is a video card overclocking piece of software, but it also has video recording
20:27:29  <Samu> openttd was just accelerating the mute process
20:27:40  <Samu> due to the way it is always queuing sounds
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20:34:54  <greeter> i see
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20:47:46  <Samu> Audiodg.exe
20:48:46  <Samu> found the name of that thing
20:48:58  <Samu> Windows Audio Device Graph Isolation
20:49:45  <greeter> hmm
20:51:10  <Samu> Oh right... creative drivers
20:51:35  <Samu> I was lucky not to get BSOD's
20:52:34  <Samu> there's plenty of complains about Creative causing bsods when playing some games
20:52:43  <greeter> that's never fun
20:53:19  <Samu> OpenAL
20:53:28  <Samu> games that used that sound engine
20:53:44  <Samu> had a tendency to crash on some creative cards
20:53:55  <Samu> erm... bsod, not crash
20:54:12  <greeter> ah i see
20:55:31  <Samu> i don't technically have a Creative Sound Card, but I got a "glorified asus motherboard with supreme sound technology from creative built-in"
20:55:50  <Samu> asus, never again
20:55:54  <greeter> lol i see... that a glorified way of saying that it's a hunk of hardware that could be problematic?
20:56:06  <Samu> yup
20:56:15  <greeter> hmm guessing you've had other bad experiences with asus?
20:56:22  <Samu> because driver support stopped on windows 7
20:56:44  <greeter> ah i see
20:57:03  <greeter> windows isn't known for updating at the speed of light, you'd think such driver issues could be fixed in a reasonable amount of time
20:57:20  <Samu> it is in reality, a realtek chipset, but with a license to use a now, no longer supported, creative audio enchancing technologies
20:57:33  <glx> greeter: it's not windows, it's the manufacturers
20:58:07  <greeter> i meant that the manufacturers should be able to fix issues like that
20:58:12  <glx> I must use my old scanner in a 32bit xp VM because it will never get a 64 bit driver
20:58:14  <Samu> it's a sticker that says Creative, placed on top of the realtek chipset
20:58:18  <greeter> i know all about driver issues and hardware manufacturers
20:58:31  <greeter> if i ever need to buy a dialup modem for some reason, there's no chance it'll have a connexant chipset
20:58:38  <glx> they won't fix when you can buy a newer one
20:59:22  <greeter> ah, true. they expect everyone to be wealthy enough to replace working hardware every year or so
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21:03:11  <Samu> in this case, it doesn't matter whom I ask for support
21:03:29  <Samu> asus says it's creative's fault
21:03:54  <Samu> creative says end of life support
21:04:32  <Samu> the license to use that creative stuff in the mobo is valid for as long as creative wishes to support it
21:05:25  <Samu> no drivers from creative, nothing asus can do...
21:05:36  <greeter> i see
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21:06:14  <Samu> still, that mobo, when new, costs 0 or so
21:06:19  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:06:28  <Samu> i was lucky to buy it 2nd hand in a combo
21:06:35  <greeter> sounds it
21:06:59  <Samu> realtek does a much longer support
21:07:11  <Samu> thx to realtek, I have sound in windows 10
21:07:22  <Samu> i just dont have those nice audio enchancing features anymore
21:08:01  <Samu> meh, i'm talking too much
21:08:53  <greeter> grr, the oil refinery i was bringing oil to just shut down, good thing i can afford to build a new one
21:09:04  <greeter> and no you aren't :-)
21:12:20  <Samu> just peaked at RoadRunner game
21:12:24  <Samu> he's not cheating now
21:12:33  <Samu> made him start on company 2
21:12:43  <Samu> year is 1964, still legit
21:12:56  <Samu> I'll keep watching
21:21:33  <peter1138> audio enhancing == fucking up the sound
21:25:02  <greeter> lol
21:28:59  <Samu> ah, no, i was lucky in that OpenAL regard
21:29:13  <Samu> it's not a real Creative hardware, it's Realtek
21:29:32  <Samu> the problem happens on Creative drivers with real Creative hardware
21:30:01  <greeter> hmm, i need to find out what this flying saucer is going to do lol
21:30:25  <Samu> and Creative refuses to fix that because End of Life support
21:30:57  <greeter> fun stuff
21:31:51  <Samu> how Creative ends mixing up realtek hw and creative hw in the same product.... meh... great management going on there on Creative
21:32:31  <greeter> lol
21:34:22  <Samu> i still blame asus, they made this arrangement
21:34:32  <Samu> and put it on a top of the line mobo
21:34:39  <Samu> :(
21:35:36  <greeter> :-S
21:41:29  <Eddi|zuHause> most likely annoy you
21:45:03  <Samu> there are other issues with this same motherboard model, namely the BIOS
21:45:47  <greeter> lol Eddi|zuHause it didn't actually :-)
21:47:26  <Samu> I just don't get how it was praised so much by tech reviewers when it came out. the darn BIOS has a tendency to "forget" settings, sometimes important ones like voltages, turbo clock settings and even fan control.
21:49:29  <greeter> yeah those are pretty big things to not remember
21:52:44  <Samu> there is a bug related to CPU ACPI. If I hibernate, for example, and wake it up, the BIOS will forget 3 power states
21:53:35  <greeter> hmm :-S
21:53:36  <Samu> this cpu has 7
21:53:41  <Samu> it's a fx-8150
21:54:13  <Samu> power states are, making it work at certain frequencies, there's 1.4 GHz, 2.1, 2.7, 3.3, 3.6, 3.9, 4.2
21:54:33  <greeter> i see
21:54:34  <Samu> after hibernating, 2.1, 2.7 and 3.3 are forgotten
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21:55:41  <Samu> it doesn't affect me that much, I rather prefer to have the CPU operate at its max speed
21:55:44  <greeter> hmm that's far from ideal lol
21:55:56  <greeter> understandably so, but if it forgets that, what else does it forget?
21:56:05  <Samu> i can live with that, but it's just some of the things that go under the radar on tech reviewers
21:56:49  <Samu> makes me think asus paied them
21:56:56  <Samu> to give great reviews
21:58:10  <Samu> i'm yet surprised the whole thing is stable
21:58:19  <Samu> i can't complain about that
21:58:26  <Samu> but still...
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22:12:44  <Samu> ah, another problem is when shutting down the system after it woke up from hybernation. It does not turn off the USB devices
22:13:10  <Samu> i see mouse lights still on, the keyboard num lock light also on
22:13:19  <Samu> oh well, enough of that
22:13:32  <Samu> no more asus from me
22:14:06  <greeter> can't blame you after that kind of experience
22:14:47  <Samu> it's ACPI related
22:15:09  <Samu> but k, it works, and i know how to handle it in these situations
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23:07:18  <Wolf01> 'night
23:07:21  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
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23:15:14  <Samu> terron server will be the first to reach 2051
23:15:20  <Samu> 4 more years to go
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