Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:02:57 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:16:28 *** rah [rah@verain.settrans.net] has joined #openttd 00:25:59 *** mz-e520 [~mz-e520@cust187-dsl61.idnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:29:19 *** mz-e520 [~mz-e520@cust187-dsl61.idnet.net] has joined #openttd 00:31:33 *** pereba [~adiirc@2804:7f2:80:c6fe:4534:b37f:9d32:c8bc] has joined #openttd 00:38:53 *** ConductorCat [~Conductor@pool-108-56-0-223.washdc.btas.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 00:45:03 *** ConductingCat [~Conductor@pool-108-56-0-223.washdc.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:17:41 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po1-84-91-250-188.netvisao.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:17:47 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~farci@i59F6DC70.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:25:13 *** TrueBrain [~truebrain@000125f6.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:31:30 *** Ethereal_Shiver [~Tricia@2600:8800:1280:5200:3d30:8d78:ba93:fc9d] has joined #openttd 01:38:15 *** Ethereal_Whisper [~Tricia@2600:8800:1280:5200:50a0:4633:1be8:57d3] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:43:32 *** Mudkillz [~oftc-webi@173-20-121-130.client.mchsi.com] has joined #openttd 01:44:48 <Mudkillz> hello? 01:47:02 *** Mudkillz [~oftc-webi@173-20-121-130.client.mchsi.com] has quit [] 02:00:01 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 02:10:05 <Eddi|zuHause> hello. 02:20:56 *** ConductCat [~Conductor@pool-108-56-0-223.washdc.btas.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 02:25:44 *** ConductorCat [~Conductor@pool-108-56-0-223.washdc.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:41:16 *** ConductorCat [~Conductor@pool-108-56-0-223.washdc.btas.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 02:48:34 *** ConductCat [~Conductor@pool-108-56-0-223.washdc.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:01:49 *** Ethereal_Shiver [~Tricia@2600:8800:1280:5200:3d30:8d78:ba93:fc9d] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:13:44 *** ConductCat [~Conductor@pool-108-56-0-223.washdc.btas.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 03:20:08 *** ConductorCat [~Conductor@pool-108-56-0-223.washdc.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:33:53 *** shirish_ [~quassel@59.96.120.47] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:38:17 *** Flygon__ [~Flygon@ppp118-209-182-233.lns20.mel8.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:48:37 *** Flygon [~Flygon@ppp118-209-182-233.lns20.mel8.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 04:01:46 *** ToneKnee [~quassel@host81-131-186-179.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 04:08:15 *** ToneKnee_ [~quassel@host86-135-238-51.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:13:50 *** supermop__ [~supermop@pool-100-37-203-161.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:47:45 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd 05:01:29 *** Xal [~xal@S0106f0f2490b0073.vw.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 05:34:17 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 05:38:47 <Alkel_U3> supermop_: what luck. It's just changed :D I guess you'd need to get source from github and compile yourself. But I also guess that the small set of changes might permit an upgrade midgame. 05:43:39 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has quit [] 06:12:23 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 06:12:26 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 06:12:50 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:19:04 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:36:53 *** TrueBrain [~truebrain@i210033.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 07:06:18 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 08:27:50 *** ConductorCat [~Conductor@pool-108-56-0-223.washdc.btas.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 08:33:14 *** ConductCat [~Conductor@pool-108-56-0-223.washdc.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:40:20 *** orudge` [~orudge@owenrudge.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:41:13 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host61-236-dynamic.24-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 08:41:19 <Wolf01> o/ 08:43:08 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 08:50:34 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd 09:12:55 *** aard [~aard@108.134.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has joined #openttd 09:31:27 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@y32.ip1.anvianet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:03:14 *** NoShlomo [~NoShlomo@90.74.151.136] has joined #openttd 10:09:06 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po1-84-91-250-188.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd 10:09:11 <Samu> hi~~ 10:12:58 <Samu> hmm servers ain't being advertised 10:15:02 <Samu> nevermind, they are 10:15:35 <Samu> took a while 10:16:33 <Samu> ST2: hi, can you try joining any of my servers? from yesterday to today, I gained a different IP address, so I wonder what will happen 10:17:02 <Samu> ST2: this is hibernation thing 10:17:39 <Samu> @logs 10:17:39 <DorpsGek> Samu: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd 10:19:40 <Samu> bah, sorry st2, i did not get a new ip address after all, I was wrong 10:26:38 <Samu> AroAI is triggering bankrupt warnings for no reason 10:27:03 <Samu> he's working too close to the max loan limit 10:29:12 <Samu> he's got a huge profit of £1.100k 10:29:40 <Samu> sad to see successfull AI's getting these warnings 10:58:57 *** Alkel_U3 [~alkel@252.244.forpsi.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 10:58:59 <Samu> The extension log is not allowed, why not? 10:59:06 <Samu> can't upload log files to the forum 10:59:09 *** Alkel_U3 [~alkel@252.244.forpsi.net] has joined #openttd 11:03:10 <Samu> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=49496&p=1170861#p1170861 - reported 11:12:30 <Samu> attached savegame 11:12:48 <Samu> aroai is special, he actually starts working immediately after load 11:16:14 <Samu> are bankrupt warnings saved in savegames? 11:16:21 <Samu> :( 11:17:16 <Samu> stored in savegames* 11:19:12 <Samu> brb 11:22:23 <Samu> back 11:29:26 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:31:48 <Wolf01> you don't need to tell us when you go away for 3 minutes, I think people are smart enough to guess you are busy elsewhere when you aren't writing ;) 11:39:03 *** debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:4584:4200:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:42:03 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 11:45:58 <Samu> i'm submitting a feature request, but I bet it's gonna be dismissed anyway 11:53:59 <Samu> https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6478 11:54:11 <Samu> not a bug 12:03:06 *** debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:4584:4200:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has joined #openttd 12:38:02 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has quit [] 12:40:18 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 12:58:24 *** roidal [~roidal@cm215-81.liwest.at] has joined #openttd 12:58:52 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 13:00:59 *** aard [~aard@108.134.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:01:38 *** mykoserocin [~mykoseroc@000214a6.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 13:03:37 * Samu slaps ST2 around a bit with a large fishbot 13:05:32 <Samu> ST2: could I ask you another favour? 13:06:50 <Samu> ST2: could you test this https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6478 on your servers, those which use GS? Since you got a much larger audience, I'd like to know if it is stable or if it causes desyncs 13:07:34 <Samu> I expect no desyncs, but I got a limited audience 13:07:37 <ST2> we disabled autosaves on our servers 13:07:48 <Samu> yes, nice, exactly 13:09:23 <ST2> and, as I hope you understand, I'm @ work now and hardly gonna test weird stuff on our servers 13:09:48 <Samu> oh okay :| 13:11:39 <Samu> just thought it could be useful, it stores less data when sending the map to clients 13:11:56 <Samu> less bandwidth requirements 13:12:03 <ST2> we dnt have issues with it 13:12:43 <ST2> the way to make really small map file sizes is to remove trees 13:13:01 <ST2> gets 1/4 of size 13:13:26 <Samu> yeah, i noticed trees are evil 13:13:52 <Samu> savegame format lzma:6 also compresses better 13:14:02 <Samu> but requires more ram usage on the servers 13:14:19 <Samu> and slows down the upload rate 13:14:25 *** aminos [~aminos@41.225.144.126] has joined #openttd 13:14:57 *** aminos [~aminos@41.225.144.126] has quit [] 13:25:39 *** tvel [~tvel@217.174.159.226] has joined #openttd 13:26:28 <Samu> in fact, I got no audience at all, it's jsut me 13:26:47 <Samu> i have no idea how to make this compatible with 1.6.1-RC1 13:29:16 <ST2> Samu: check PM 13:29:25 <Samu> ok 13:33:47 <supermop_> yo 13:55:05 <_dp_> omg, rly? 3/4 of save is just trees? 14:04:18 <Samu> yes, i tested it 14:05:23 <Samu> tree_placer = 1.sav 18,7 MB (19.677.544 bytes) 14:05:48 <Samu> tree_placer = 2.sav 26,9 MB (28.269.848 bytes) 14:06:09 <Samu> tree_placer = 0.sav 4,21 MB (4.419.608 bytes) 14:06:20 <Samu> 4096x4096 map, arctic tileset 14:06:43 <Samu> 1 - original 14:06:46 <Samu> 2 - improved 14:06:47 <Samu> 0 - none 14:14:23 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 14:17:38 *** tvel [~tvel@217.174.159.226] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:18:21 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 14:18:24 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 14:18:37 *** pereba [~adiirc@2804:7f2:80:c6fe:4534:b37f:9d32:c8bc] has quit [Quit: AdiIRC -> http://www.adiirc.com <- *I* use it, so it must be good!] 14:25:15 <supermop_> trees are effectively noise - not compressible 14:25:58 <Wolf01> then don't save the trees and regenerate them randomly each time the game is loaded 14:26:15 <supermop_> oooh 14:26:21 <supermop_> that's interesting 14:26:33 <_dp_> heightmap is also noise 14:26:41 <Wolf01> what is saved about a tree? 14:27:09 <supermop_> tile location, tree type, number of trees on tile? 14:27:25 <supermop_> i'd love to see more data per tree 14:27:48 <Wolf01> I think some informations might be discarded and just save the latter, who will notice the colour of a tree falling in the middle of the Amazon forest? 14:28:26 <supermop_> things that could give certain species preferences for certain areas 14:28:38 <supermop_> so the pines stay with pines etc 14:29:09 <Wolf01> maybe you could regenerate 80% pines above snow line and 20% others and the inverse below the snowline 14:29:22 <supermop_> also, slope or average 3x3 slope of tile the tree is on, so that trees on 'dark' sides of hills can be shaded 14:29:43 <supermop_> so that trees do not camouflage topography 14:30:59 <supermop_> but none of that matters for save - in fact 14:31:06 <Wolf01> there's the transparency/invisibility feature for that 14:31:25 <supermop_> Wolf01: that's a bad solution 14:32:16 <Wolf01> what, enabling transparency to see the terrain? 14:32:20 <supermop_> as you have the dilemma of either can't see where you or building, or can't see that you just destroyed 100 trees while messing around and no rating is destroyed 14:32:45 <supermop_> also the map looks prettier with trees, but we all just leave them off most of the time 14:33:06 <Alberth> only while building :) 14:33:24 <supermop_> i still would likely turn off while doing most building 14:33:36 <supermop_> but id like a compromise while planning 14:34:07 <supermop_> also i find once trees get dense enough, they nolonger look good 14:34:15 <Wolf01> I would like a planning layer too 14:34:25 <Wolf01> which doesn't change the map 14:34:28 <supermop_> as it becomes a flat green noise 14:34:41 <supermop_> you cant see any beautiful tree covered hills 14:35:28 <Wolf01> by the way, we are diverting from the original problem 14:36:13 <supermop_> yes 14:36:16 <supermop_> but 14:36:54 <supermop_> if what ever places the trees has more info to go on, like put oaks roughly here, pines roughly here, etc 14:37:28 <supermop_> then you can regenerate trees on each load and get pretty similar results 14:37:45 <supermop_> so it wont look as weird that the actual trees are not saved 14:38:36 <supermop_> if save game only saves 'there are trees in this area' rather than 'this tile has tree 01, this tile has tree 03...etc" 14:38:50 <Wolf01> pines (with some mixed others) in snowy areas, less trees on slopes and more trees on flat tiles 14:39:30 <supermop_> it can predictably refill that area of trees in a reasonable looking way without saving precise location and species of each tree 14:40:02 <supermop_> by following those basic rules based on height slopw, next to water etc 14:40:15 <supermop_> the only problem is 14:40:56 <supermop_> what if a player is specifically planting like a boulevard row of palm trees lining the road to their HQ 14:41:22 <supermop_> or they have like a tuscany map and want rows of specific trees along the country roads 14:41:31 <_dp_> from what I can see no one even bothered to compress trees, they are just stuffed in map array in hope that zip will magically compress them 14:41:32 <supermop_> those will be lost 14:41:38 <Wolf01> maybe we could make an exception for player planted trees, or if a player wants static trees just use grf objects 14:42:17 <Wolf01> and if you plant an entire forest, you'll end up using more savegame space 14:43:57 <supermop_> hmm 14:44:30 <supermop_> i'd prefer my 'planted' forests stay random - maybe objects are best for decorative trees 14:45:20 <supermop_> can object have a property that 'spawns' a tree of a certain type on the object, rather than just grabbing a sprite? 14:45:55 <Wolf01> also, trees die and spring continuously, so nobody will ever notice they are random 14:46:26 <_dp_> you can make "random" type of tree that can be used along with specific ones, that will a good start I think 14:47:32 <supermop_> actually the current trees are so dumb i don't know if anyone would miss their behaviour changing 14:48:11 <supermop_> also would be great if deciduous trees could lose leaves in autumn/winter 14:48:25 <_dp_> since trees from mapgen will mostly be "random" so zip can compress it nicely, and user is unlikely to plant a lot of specific trees in random patterns 14:49:56 <Wolf01> and what about map layers which could be compressed separately? it coule also help to remove a lot of things from the map array 14:50:04 <Wolf01> in fact you will have more map arrays 14:50:13 <Wolf01> with different features 14:51:14 <Wolf01> you could even have one layer to plan the construction 14:51:23 <_dp_> don't think having more layers will be of any help to reduce save size 14:52:02 <Wolf01> but a "tree distribution layer" could be handled differently from the current map array 14:53:02 <Wolf01> instead of having to save the position and details for every tile you might save... intersecting ovals with different sizes and tree type 14:54:17 <supermop_> Wolf01: that's sort of what i had in mind, just clouds of trees 14:54:34 <_dp_> Wolf01, position is not being saved currently, only data for all tiles consequently 14:55:09 <supermop_> could save center of cloud, or north corner, or even all corners, for odd shapes, and it would still be much smaller than saving every tile 14:55:18 <Wolf01> yes 14:56:27 <supermop_> "tile x,y - White Oak, dx: 10 tiles, dy: 21 tiles" 14:56:48 *** Klanticus [~quassel@177.34.163.192] has joined #openttd 14:58:13 <supermop_> or save like a closed polyline in CAD: "(x1,y1), (x2,y2), (x3,y3), ....(xn,yn) - Blue Spruce" 14:58:33 <supermop_> maybe extra bits for average age or something 14:59:18 <_dp_> I think you're overcomplicating things, if you want more tree-centered approach then repeat mapgen for initial trees and then only save player modifications 14:59:27 <supermop_> or not even save the species and let game of a tree newgrf provide rules guiding how to plant trees given that area 14:59:58 <Samu> otvi server is "about" to finish 15:01:06 <supermop_> _dp_: my aim is less about reduced save size, more about a more interesting or smart tree placement, that hopefully has the added benefit of also reducing the 'noisiness' of trees 15:03:25 <Wolf01> if we could have a save size of 6MB instead of 4MB (no trees) and 19MB (original) it will really be an improvement 15:04:22 <_dp_> supermop_, it needs some checking, but imo currently most noisiness comes from variety of trees types/state, not from their location 15:05:08 <_dp_> location seems to follow some patterns more or less, which is ok for zip 15:05:33 <Samu> i believe i used default saving, lzma:2 15:05:36 <supermop_> _dp_: but you could save that by not listing each tree's species, just have a cloud that says "trees in this area are pines" 15:06:01 <Samu> i did that test 2 months ago 15:07:11 <_dp_> supermop_, you don't need areas for that. just put that "pines" in map array instead of specific types 15:07:37 <_dp_> and for compressing groups of pines, zip will do fine 15:08:10 <Samu> it's zlib or lzma or lzo, there's no zip 15:10:06 <Alkel_U3> supermop_: hi. Concerning the server version - are you on windows? 15:12:30 <supermop_> yeah, generally 15:12:36 <supermop_> at the moment i am at work 15:12:51 <Alkel_U3> ah ok 15:12:57 <_dp_> like, generally speaking working with areas may be better, it's just a lot more complex approach and I don't believe anyone will ever do it) 15:13:00 <supermop_> but both work and home computers teen to be 64 but win 7 15:14:15 <Alkel_U3> hm, that's a bit more difficult environment for patching from git and compiling the source 15:14:37 <Alkel_U3> I'll try if the server is ok with changing the version midgame 15:14:55 <_dp_> while introducing a few special values for random types is pretty minor change 15:16:50 *** Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 15:17:01 <_dp_> and btf tree type can even be made a function of map seed and tile coordinates, that way it will stay the same even after reload 15:17:08 <supermop_> Alkel_U3: i can wait for the next round 15:17:32 <Alkel_U3> supermop_: it has daylength 5 - it will be a long, long wait :D 15:18:44 <Alkel_U3> although I regret not making the map bigger - this setting could see the 1024^2 size as still cozy 15:21:01 <Alkel_U3> and it's much easier to make money - I'm considering a third instance :-) 15:22:21 <supermop_> 1024 is fine on my work computer, but to be honest my laptop at home struggles with anything bigger than that 15:23:20 <Alkel_U3> I chose smaler map for gameplay-wise reasons. The server should handle bigger maps fine 15:24:44 <supermop_> Alkel_U3: your server might, but my client can't 15:25:33 <Alkel_U3> supermop_: what's inside your laptop? I could understand if it was an atom or a lower-end Core 2... 15:25:50 <supermop_> 6 years of junk i guess 15:26:11 <supermop_> it's been overheating easily a lot recently too 15:26:41 <supermop_> and ram gets maxed out on any large ottd map, especially if chrome is also running 15:26:47 <Samu> disable full animation 15:26:59 <Samu> use 8bpp blitter 15:26:59 <supermop_> Samu: i do 15:27:09 <Samu> they're the biggest cpu offenders for me 15:27:33 <supermop_> cpu is ok, except for when it overheats 15:27:52 <Alkel_U3> a friend of mine has a dell work laptop with hawell i7 and a radeon graphics - if left unchecked while playing something demanding, it's guaranteed to turn off soon :D 15:27:56 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd 15:28:00 <supermop_> its a circa 2010 i7, don't remember any specs off the top of my head 15:28:12 <Alkel_U3> (happened even during factorio MP) 15:28:19 <supermop_> yeah 15:28:27 <Samu> sec, let me check 15:28:38 <supermop_> i forget what gpu i have as well 15:28:57 <supermop_> it was certainly a nice vaio in 2010 15:29:18 <Samu> openttd.exe -b 8bpp-optimized 15:29:31 <Samu> i used this on my Athlon XP 2700+ 15:29:39 <supermop_> also the ssd on it is almost entirely full 15:29:59 <Samu> then turned off full animation, it became much better 15:30:18 <Samu> while in the game, don't zoom out too much 15:30:32 <Samu> forbit it from zooming out , think there's a setting there 15:31:22 <supermop_> and haven't made the time to sit down and clear it out 15:31:54 <supermop_> i feel like its so old i don't want to sink a lot of time on it though, would be better to just buy a new computer 15:31:59 <Samu> but if the server you join doesn't pause on join, then catching up will still be problematic 15:32:35 <supermop_> seeing as i need to do rhino work for freelance occasionally, and rendering is really tough on that old machine 15:33:16 <supermop_> but i've been just about broke for most of the last 3 years as something keeps coming up to spend all my disposable money on 15:35:33 <_dp_> is there any tool to check savegame parts size? 15:35:54 <_dp_> or at least something to work with savegames 15:36:17 <Alkel_U3> well I got a GTX 560Ti from a friend. My budget would constrain me from gettin something half-decent. The rest is pretty budget :-) 15:37:49 <supermop_> like moving to australia, then moving back from australia etc 15:39:07 <Alkel_U3> except the PSU - I retained that as a leftower from an attemt to get money mining litecoin. So now I have a PC which could be well content with a 400W PSU being powered by a 1,2kW 80 Platinum plus monster :D 15:41:06 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:41:12 <Samu> i use a program named Process Lasso on that Athlon rig 15:41:29 <Samu> makes the system more responsive 15:42:06 <Samu> doesn't necessarily improve performance, it works with process priorities 15:42:24 <Samu> it "governs" process priorities 15:42:40 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has joined #openttd 15:42:41 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has left #openttd [] 15:42:49 <Samu> kinda helps, but I recognize that system is really old for web browsing 15:42:56 <Wolf01> heh, he was extremely quick today 15:43:32 <Alkel_U3> wow, I'd almost forget. I used that too, back on an old 2002 Pentium 4 with XP. It objectively helped. 15:43:44 <supermop_> i wonder if i can convince my boss to help pay for a new computer so i can do more work from home 15:44:10 <Samu> oh, I'm using windows 7 on it 15:45:05 <Samu> athlon xp is about from the same age, 2003 15:47:51 <Alkel_U3> well, I see more powerfull computers being decommisioned and thrown away nowadays. Heck, I even got my hands on some intel miniitx boards with sandybridge i3s on them 15:48:47 <Samu> according to microsoft, that athlon xp is eligible for windows 10 update too... :( 15:50:45 <Alkel_U3> https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/29783051.jpg 15:51:46 <Samu> lol 15:54:00 <Samu> i tried a 4096x4096 map generated on it 15:54:11 <Samu> it's unplayable 15:54:38 <Samu> tried a 2048x2048 - it's playable, but... hardly acceptable 15:54:59 <Samu> 1024x2048 can be dealt with, fine 15:55:21 *** TheMask96 [martijn@envy.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:58:35 <Alkel_U3> when I transfered to OpenTTD large maps were just becoming a thing, I think. I instantly chose 2048^2 with daylength 10 and ~100tile min city distance and built stuff all over it :D 15:59:58 *** TheMask96 [martijn@sloth.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 16:02:01 <Samu> _dp_: savegame_format = lzma:6, my bad, maybe i should restest 16:06:59 <Samu> oh wow, i just triggered a weird bug 16:07:27 <Samu> saved with name tree_placer = 0, savegame_format = lzma:0 16:07:38 <Samu> :0 wasn't put into the name 16:07:43 <Samu> and it didn't close the file 16:08:20 *** M-E [~M@ip4da0d6bd.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 16:08:44 <Samu> generated a 0 bytes save 16:12:39 <_dp_> hm, getaddrinfo for hostname "/dev/fd/63", port 3979, address family either IPv4 or IPv6 and socket type tcp failed: Name or service not known 16:12:49 <_dp_> why can openttd -D suddenly stop working? 16:14:18 <_dp_> after I used <(echo test) but that was in other terminal 16:25:43 *** frosch123 [~frosch@00013ce7.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:26:02 <Samu> lol, lzo is so brutally fast 16:27:04 <Alberth> hola 16:29:05 <_dp_> did some tests, of MAPn layers size in savegame 16:29:11 <_dp_> without trees: [58712, 49064, 65012, 57148, 100868, 32604, 17188] 16:29:22 <_dp_> with trees: [59204, 342480, 277832, 57004, 335060, 32640, 17012] 16:29:35 <_dp_> on temperate with same seed 16:32:05 <_dp_> didn't check MAPT but looks like it adds another 120000 16:36:40 <_dp_> so in total for trees: 120k - location, 393k - ground << 6 | density << 4, 212k - tree type, 234k - count << 6 | growth. 16:37:53 <_dp_> extra 860k to 580k save 16:39:51 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has quit [] 16:41:28 <frosch123> hoi 16:43:43 <Wolf01> quak 16:44:09 <Wolf01> I ate fried frogs yesterday, just fyi ;) 16:44:53 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:44:56 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 16:47:07 <frosch123> i wonder, do people who eat dogs distinguish them from wolfs? 16:49:10 <Wolf01> I don't know, I'm not from the far east 16:52:13 <Samu> Wormnest: do you want Otvi log? 16:52:30 <Samu> its a 59 MB txt file :) and i didn't saved all of it 16:52:39 <supermop_> frosch123: i imagine it is more difficult to get the wolf to eat 16:52:47 <Wolf01> mmmh, today is a beautiful sunny day but the sky is rumbling... /me checks the other side of the house... oh... there it is, it looks like Mordor 16:53:30 <supermop_> and traditionally dogs are only eaten as a famine food in desperate times, not likely to be a bunch of wolves around then 16:53:39 <Alberth> house right at the border :) 16:55:31 <_dp_> adding "random" type of tree will make it 940k save, 360k extra instead of 860k 16:56:41 <Wolf01> is it me or numbers don't match? 16:58:10 <_dp_> where? 16:58:11 <frosch123> supermop_: http://observer.com/2016/04/this-year-china-needs-to-end-its-horrific-dog-meat-festival/ 16:58:47 <Wolf01> 940k -> 360k & 860k 16:59:04 <frosch123> both wolfs and frogs can be eaten when there is famine. but usually they are eaten as "something special" 16:59:05 *** dustinm` [~dustinm`@68.ip-149-56-14.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:59:15 <_dp_> 940 = 360(trees) + 580(rest) 16:59:50 <Wolf01> oh frogs here are a delicacy :) 17:00:23 <_dp_> 1440(current save) = 860(trees currently) + 580(rest) 17:00:30 <supermop_> what often starts as 'emergency only' food becomes delicacy after a few centuries or melinnia 17:00:33 <frosch123> supermop_: not that i care whether people eat dogs, pigs or cows 17:01:01 <frosch123> i like chicken though :p 17:01:04 <supermop_> but i doubt there were many easy to catch wolves about in china last year or 1000 years ago 17:02:15 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd 17:02:33 <supermop_> but human societies generally avoid eating apex predators except in exceptional circumstances 17:03:40 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-109-91-72-28.hsi12.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #openttd 17:04:32 <Samu> _dp_ could you make compression multi-threaded? 17:04:41 *** Flygon [~Flygon@ppp118-209-182-233.lns20.mel8.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:04:57 <Samu> it starts a new save process, but the compression itself is still single-threaded 17:07:51 <Alberth> meh, why is fios so freaking complicated? 17:08:53 <frosch123> i also wondered about that :) 17:09:43 <frosch123> i think it is due to the arcane state machine that is used to "switch modes" when loading a game or scenario 17:09:46 <Wormnest> Samu: no thanks IÂŽm fine without it :) 17:10:32 <Alberth> too many weird globals, and weird enums that are mostly duplicate but not quite 17:16:49 <Samu> just started EpicTrans 17:16:56 <Alberth> epic! 17:17:02 <Samu> replaced OtviAI 17:17:28 <Samu> otviai finished!! without crashing, just making the server miserably slow 17:18:13 <Wormnest> I like that noCAB reuses rail tracks but itÂŽs not optimal if three routes come together shortly before a long tunnel :) 17:23:14 *** aard [~aard@108.134.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has joined #openttd 17:28:47 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6B835.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 17:31:01 <Samu> hoho, for the first time lzma:9 compressed more than lzma:8, 7 and 6 17:31:36 <Samu> it needs mucho trees to to it! 17:34:25 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27600 trunk/src/newgrf_spritegroup.cpp (2016-06-13 19:34:18 +0200 ) 17:34:26 <DorpsGek> -Fix: [NewGRF] shift-and-add-divide/modulo varadjusts use signed division/modulo. 17:37:11 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: do you have some kind of list for ancient bugs in arcane newgrf features, which noone uses? 17:37:27 <frosch123> (except in this case NML trying to be clever) 17:45:43 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27601 trunk/src/lang/spanish_MX.txt (2016-06-13 19:45:37 +0200 ) 17:45:44 <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints: 17:45:45 <DorpsGek> spanish (mexican): 4 changes by Absay 17:50:29 *** Klanticus_ [~quassel@177.34.163.192] has joined #openttd 17:53:41 *** Klanticus [~quassel@177.34.163.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:03:59 *** dustinm` [~dustinm`@68.ip-149-56-14.net] has joined #openttd 18:05:45 <Samu> i count a total of 27 AIs that make use of road vehicles 18:06:06 <Samu> from bananas 18:06:14 <Samu> without counting town cars stuff, i dont like that 18:09:53 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 18:09:58 <andythenorth> o/ 18:12:31 *** AdmiralKew [~pcc31@122.2.16.48] has joined #openttd 18:13:19 <supermop_> yo 18:15:42 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18DA0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 18:17:46 <supermop_> andy is doing trucks or legos today? 18:18:30 <ST2> he mixed them... doing lego trucks :P 18:19:08 *** Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 18:25:19 <supermop_> i got another quote from a second contractor for this deck i am designing. instead of being 10kUSD over budget, now it is 35k over budget 18:34:54 <andythenorth> how do I break an ebay habit? 18:35:56 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:38:39 *** Klanticus [~quassel@177.34.163.192] has joined #openttd 18:38:41 <supermop_> andythenorth: run out of money 18:39:42 <supermop_> worked for me 18:39:51 <V453000> XD 18:39:53 <supermop_> no more vintage braun finds 18:40:04 <andythenorth> hmm 18:40:16 <andythenorth> if I buy enough stuff to run out of money that is a real problem 18:40:28 *** roidal [~roidal@cm215-81.liwest.at] has quit [Quit: kernel panic 1.4] 18:40:28 <andythenorth> I donât buy enough to do that 18:40:32 <supermop_> you'll get there 18:40:47 <andythenorth> nah, Iâm only buying US HO trains on UK ebay 18:40:51 <andythenorth> there arenât that many good ones 18:40:52 <Alkel_U3> supermop_: I'm resetting the server 18:40:57 <V453000> :D 18:41:01 <andythenorth> and I have price limits 18:41:10 <andythenorth> but within those rules, I buy everything I see 18:41:17 <Alkel_U3> (the patchpack one) 18:41:23 <andythenorth> because only one or two things come up most days 18:41:34 <supermop_> andythenorth: i wonder if i still have my old HO stuff in my parent basement 18:42:04 <V453000> LMFAO 18:42:06 <V453000> fucking priceless 18:42:07 <V453000> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/AfterEffectsError.png 18:42:11 *** Klanticus_ [~quassel@177.34.163.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:42:41 <supermop_> i had a cool set of steel beams to make an under construction HO scale building 18:42:52 <supermop_> well maroon plastic, not steel 18:44:17 <supermop_> some UP locomotive, and one santa fe chief thing 18:44:51 <supermop_> i don't know enough about US locomotives to know what the famous one of those was 18:45:01 <andythenorth> V453000: good error 18:45:07 <andythenorth> supermop_: meanwhileâŠAntelope :P http://www.railpictures.net/photo/579712/ 18:47:00 <supermop_> nice 18:47:29 <supermop_> i need a N layout to run my little 08 around on 18:49:27 <supermop_> dont even need any stock 18:51:43 *** Ethereal_Whisper [~Tricia@2600:8800:1280:5200:3d30:8d78:ba93:fc9d] has joined #openttd 18:55:25 <supermop_> Alkel_U3: work internet being slow, downloading pp now 18:55:53 <Alkel_U3> supermop_: me being slow, too - I compiled or patched wrong dir again 18:56:06 <Alkel_U3> so, compiling :D 19:02:27 *** Long_yanG [~long@15255.s.time4vps.eu] has joined #openttd 19:02:49 *** Klanticus_ [~quassel@177.34.163.192] has joined #openttd 19:03:31 <Alkel_U3> aand running 19:06:21 *** Klanticus [~quassel@177.34.163.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:08:24 *** LongyanG [~long@15255.s.time4vps.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:11:10 <supermop_> no RV set? 19:12:44 <V453000> VR? 19:13:11 <frosch123> interesting point 19:13:21 <frosch123> why all the hype about vr? ottd hashad rv for years 19:14:05 <V453000> openttd's rv is probably too shit 19:14:29 <Rubidium> uhm... 19:14:30 <V453000> you need some oculus roadhog DLC to make it work properly 19:14:36 <Rubidium> isn't OpenTTD VR by definititon? 19:14:56 <V453000> I'm not being serious at all Rubidium :P 19:14:56 <Samu> some dudes who joined epictrans server made him bankrupt 19:15:02 <Samu> oh well 19:15:11 <Alkel_U3> supermop_: there's still eGRVTS? 19:15:27 <Samu> they'll get tired of it 19:15:35 <Samu> the AI is always respawning 19:18:27 <supermop_> Alkel_U3: nope 19:19:16 <Alkel_U3> supermop_: are you sure you got the right server? I have it available 19:20:40 <supermop_> only alkel patchpack server i found 19:20:40 *** orudge [~orudge@owenrudge.net] has joined #openttd 19:20:52 <Alkel_U3> that's really weird 19:21:38 <Alkel_U3> I even see it in the server details - fourth grf from bottom 19:24:57 <supermop_> still downloading pineapple btw 19:25:28 <supermop_> usually stick to 8 bit stuff so this is taking a quite a bit longer to download 19:33:01 <Alkel_U3> I'd actually like it more if it was an 8bit set. I just like it because it's nice non-complicated alternative to the base set with vaguely similar feel 19:33:36 <andythenorth> Horse 19:35:20 <Alkel_U3> I've been thinking about that one, but I don't like the feel of the americanish roster that much :-) 19:35:23 <supermop_> ^ 19:35:36 <supermop_> horse has an american roster? 19:36:33 <Alkel_U3> what the hell did I confuse it with 19:36:49 <Alkel_U3> seriously 19:36:49 *** ConductCat [~Conductor@pool-108-56-0-223.washdc.btas.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 19:37:26 <andythenorth> Horse is how Pikka would have made a set if Pikka was me and Dan 19:37:30 <Alkel_U3> yeah, ok, next game has horse :D 19:40:09 <andythenorth> blearch, stuck on a silly code decision 19:40:52 <Alkel_U3> by the way, if I got it correctly, antelope will be a different, wild-westish or tropicalish based roster for horse? 19:41:08 <andythenorth> tropicalish 19:41:24 <andythenorth> West Africa, by way of fiction and invention 19:41:28 <Alkel_U3> awesome 19:41:35 <andythenorth> matches to In A Hot Country economy in FIRS 19:41:48 <andythenorth> needs an RV set too :P 19:42:02 <andythenorth> and ships 19:42:47 <Alkel_U3> I liked Tropical Refurbishment set - had a nice feel, but I found it struggling with some FIRS cargoes 19:43:01 *** ConductorCat [~Conductor@pool-108-56-0-223.washdc.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:43:05 <Alkel_U3> s/struggling/not being compatible/ 19:43:13 <andythenorth> I have the sprites for that and have used a few for inspiration in Antelope 19:44:08 <andythenorth> so eh, I need to associate some list elements with preceeding elements in the list. I could use (1) indexes (where sometimes itâs non-trivial to figure out what the index value should be) or (2) arbitrary labels to connect the list elements (provider / consumer) 19:44:12 <Alkel_U3> RVs will be awesome, too. I'm kinda getting bored with eGRVTS. Ships of SQUID are still pretty new and good to me, though :-) 19:44:21 <andythenorth> Squid is terrible 19:44:27 <andythenorth> but eh 19:44:46 <andythenorth> it will do for now 19:44:48 <Alkel_U3> better than base :P 19:44:50 <andythenorth> NewShips is ok too 19:44:56 <andythenorth> the original newgrf 19:45:30 <andythenorth> Wolf01: I donât build space, but this? http://www.brothers-brick.com/2016/06/12/just-dump-it-in-a-crater/ 19:45:41 <andythenorth> pretty neat? 19:45:41 <Alkel_U3> Newships is great, except for the part where all vehicles become obsolete and you can't buy ships anymore 19:49:00 *** Klanticus [~quassel@177.34.163.192] has joined #openttd 19:51:11 <Alkel_U3> now I really could use indentation in vehicle orders menu. I used just 4 conditionals jumping back and forth and I'm already lost at it :D 19:51:29 *** mode/#openttd [+o orudge] by ChanServ 19:51:29 *** Nadejde [~oftc-webi@62-64-151-61.dynamic.dial.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 19:52:11 *** Klanticus_ [~quassel@177.34.163.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:52:16 *** Nadejde [~oftc-webi@62-64-151-61.dynamic.dial.as9105.com] has quit [] 19:52:32 *** Nadejde [~oftc-webi@62-64-151-61.dynamic.dial.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 19:53:06 *** frosch123 [~frosch@00013ce7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 19:53:08 *** ConductorCat [~Conductor@pool-108-56-0-223.washdc.btas.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 19:53:27 <Wolf01> andythenorth, yes, nice details 19:54:58 *** FLHerne [~flh@cpc4-papw5-2-0-cust175.5-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 19:55:50 <Samu> you can build a bridge over a bridge ramp? 19:56:09 <Alkel_U3> also over tunnel portal 19:56:11 <supermop_> think so 19:57:05 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has quit [] 19:57:20 <Samu> nice, my bad, was confusing it as a bug somehow 19:57:23 <Samu> :o 19:58:12 <Alkel_U3> but you still can't build a brisge over a volcano :( 19:58:33 <Alkel_U3> mostly because there is no volcano 19:58:57 <Alberth> nothing that a newobject can't fix :p 19:59:18 <Alkel_U3> oh yeah, I also forgot about those! :D 19:59:25 <Alberth> or even a sign with "volcano" on it :p 19:59:36 *** ConductCat [~Conductor@pool-108-56-0-223.washdc.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:01:21 <supermop_> keep losing connection when trying to join server, i think work internet is worthless today 20:01:48 <Alkel_U3> what's your ping, anyway? 20:01:55 <Alkel_U3> say, nix.cz 20:02:24 <Alkel_U3> (that should be close to the server) 20:02:35 <supermop_> we are resetting our switch 20:02:42 <supermop_> whole office having trouble 20:03:51 <Wolf01> andythenorth, https://thelegocarblog.com/2016/06/13/hey-big-boy/ 20:08:35 <Samu> rondje is gonna bankrupt 20:08:44 <jaenster> lol 20:09:01 <andythenorth> Wolf01: train :P 20:09:06 <andythenorth> also bed 20:09:08 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has left #openttd [] 20:10:46 *** supermop_ [~supermop@static-71-249-209-97.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:12:11 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4db6dc45.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 20:12:51 *** Nadejde [~oftc-webi@62-64-151-61.dynamic.dial.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:12:51 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-109-91-72-28.hsi12.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 20:15:31 <Samu> rondje bankrupted 20:16:15 *** supermop [~supermop@static-71-249-209-97.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 20:16:24 <Rubidium> did it build its gazillion road stations? 20:16:34 <Samu> no, did nothing 20:16:48 <Samu> only raising and lowering loan 20:16:50 *** Flygon [~Flygon@ppp118-209-162-57.lns20.mel8.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 20:17:06 <Samu> bankrupted in 2007 20:18:38 <Samu> erm, 2010 actually 20:18:48 <supermop> ok 20:19:24 <Samu> replaced Rondje with RoadAI 20:20:31 <Samu> restarting EpicTrans server due to some trolls 20:20:32 *** FLHerne [~flh@cpc4-papw5-2-0-cust175.5-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:20:52 *** FLHerne [~flh@cpc4-papw5-2-0-cust175.5-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 20:24:50 <Samu> it's funny that gelignAIte with 6 rvs is beating 44 rvs PAXLink 20:40:09 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 20:40:12 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-137-142.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 20:44:12 <Samu> ST2: still synced 20:44:24 <ST2> that's good :) 20:45:00 <Samu> only 1 guy joined 20:45:17 <Samu> no desync error when he left 20:45:21 <Samu> just says (leaving) 20:45:31 <ST2> RC1, as I told ya 20:45:39 <Wolf01> V453000, hype 20:47:19 <V453000> hype hype 20:47:28 <V453000> rendering on 2 computers at once 20:47:54 <Wolf01> I can rent you mine if you need another one :P 20:47:54 <Samu> can some dev review my request? 20:48:16 <Alkel_U3> render faster dammit! If you type furiously fast on three keyboads at once it will work i saw it in a movie! 20:48:19 <Alkel_U3> hype :D 20:48:35 <Samu> https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6478 - how do I made devs try this out / review it, or something? 20:48:50 <Wolf01> the most I'm doing now is playing games and render some povrays lego models 20:49:07 <Samu> make* 20:50:34 <Alkel_U3> supermop: that's you who keeps unsuccessfuly trying to connect, I assume? 20:50:43 <supermop> yep 20:50:52 <supermop> sorry if i'm pausing your game too much 20:51:13 <Alkel_U3> that's fine, I'm just curious 20:52:13 <Samu> in essence, it is doing already what it does when a client saves the game on a server with scripts running 20:52:19 <Samu> it saves them empty 20:52:47 <Samu> i just made it save in this manner as well for clients joining servers 20:53:20 <Samu> I'm 95% certain it shouldn't desync 20:53:26 <Samu> but... 20:57:03 <supermop> Alkel_U3: giving up for today 20:57:52 <Alkel_U3> supermop: I'm gonna go to bed soon, anyway. I'm a bit affraid we'll be taking shifts during the work week :D 20:59:09 <supermop> hah 21:07:29 *** aard [~aard@108.134.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:15:24 *** FLHerne [~flh@cpc4-papw5-2-0-cust175.5-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!] 21:15:43 *** FLHerne [~flh@cpc4-papw5-2-0-cust175.5-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 21:16:34 *** FLHerne [~flh@cpc4-papw5-2-0-cust175.5-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [] 21:16:52 *** FLHerne [~flh@cpc4-papw5-2-0-cust175.5-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 21:18:01 *** mykoserocin [~mykoseroc@000214a6.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:21:45 <_dp_> just removing counter for tree tiles reduced my save size by 10% 21:24:51 <Wolf01> new trucks for andy, too bad he's already on the bed http://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aL9R2Qv_460sv.mp4 21:24:57 <_dp_> and it's only used to count 15 ticks for each tree stage, pretty sure it can be replaced with some random tile selection like it's already done for tileloop 21:26:21 <_dp_> only issue I see is that freshly planted trees won't get their first growth exactly 15 ticks after planting 21:26:34 <_dp_> not a huge loss imo 21:26:37 <supermop> Wolf01: nice open cockpit on top of the cab there, looks comfortable for long haul drives 21:26:53 <Wolf01> specially with the bad weather 21:26:55 <Wolf01> :D 21:27:49 <supermop> _dp_: it's probably more 'realistic' if trees grow in a somewhat inexact rate 21:29:54 <_dp_> supermop, not sure how's that realistic but that's a nice solution too 21:30:03 <Samu> desyncing trees! 21:30:47 <Samu> can you try my patch _dp_? 21:31:29 <Samu> I beg for some dev to try my patch, :o 21:34:53 <_dp_> supermop, yeah, just tried Chance16(1, 15) instead of counter, don't see any major difference visually 21:35:38 <_dp_> supermop, except that planted trees grow at somewhat different speed which is expected 21:38:59 <Samu> speaking of trees 21:39:21 <Samu> i got a bunch of saves, testing the different compression levels and formats 21:39:50 <Samu> the "improved" tree_placer 21:40:02 <Samu> is the worst for all formats/levels 21:41:15 <Samu> lzma:9 is actually useful for the worst case scenario 21:41:20 <_dp_> oh, I didt'n use same seed for that test, it'l less than 10%, 100k of 1400 21:42:11 <Samu> I did use the same seed, then i used the same savegame to generate the other saves with different compressions 21:42:24 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4db6dc45.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta] 21:42:35 <_dp_> interestingly setting counter to SetTreeCounter(tile, tile & 15) takes not that much more, but is pretty ok visually 21:43:04 <_dp_> some pattern still visible on fast forward but though 21:43:47 <Samu> sec, gonna log all my results into a nice .txt 21:46:58 <_dp_> (uint64)(tile * 19) & 15 is much better, almost no difference 21:47:26 <_dp_> and can be used with unpatched clients 22:00:55 <Eddi|zuHause> just look up a hash function? 22:01:02 *** ConductCat [~Conductor@pool-108-56-0-223.washdc.btas.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 22:02:46 <Samu> _dp_: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pov0thkni?/pov0thkni 22:03:51 <_dp_> that already is a simple hash function 22:04:12 *** ConductingCat [~Conductor@pool-108-56-0-223.washdc.btas.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 22:05:00 <_dp_> multiplying by number that is relatively prime with modulo 22:05:13 <_dp_> looks ok so don't see any reason to use smth more complex 22:06:01 <_dp_> besides, it it gets too good it won't compress well ;) 22:06:16 *** ConductorCat [~Conductor@pool-108-56-0-223.washdc.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:06:44 <Eddi|zuHause> trees never compress well... 22:07:44 <Eddi|zuHause> it's basically a variation of this problem https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6Rp-uo6HmI only for lossless compression. 22:08:42 <_dp_> well, I've already shaved off 10% of save size with this 22:08:50 <_dp_> and I only did counter and ground type 22:09:44 *** ConductorCat [~Conductor@pool-108-56-0-223.washdc.btas.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 22:11:26 *** ConductCat [~Conductor@pool-108-56-0-223.washdc.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:11:45 *** AdmiralKew [~pcc31@122.2.16.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:15:35 <Wolf01> eddi, but trees don't move XD 22:16:06 *** ConductingCat [~Conductor@pool-108-56-0-223.washdc.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:17:40 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: not very relevant... 22:17:48 <Wolf01> I know 22:18:01 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: the point is that is "too similar to random noise" 22:18:10 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:18:15 <Eddi|zuHause> and thus not very compressible 22:18:17 <ST2> but you have to admit, would be fun having running trees xD 22:18:23 <Wolf01> XD 22:18:25 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, yeah, that's why I'm eliminating randomness 22:19:27 <_dp_> doesn't have to be random to look random 22:20:26 <Wolf01> the function approach could be a good one, you define say 50 functions and pick some of them at map generation and place them in some tiles, then the functions will generate trees, maybe based on the year 22:22:46 *** Xal [~xal@S0106f0f2490b0073.vw.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 22:27:05 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18DA0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:29:12 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:34:09 *** LadyHawk- [~LadyHawk@5751e87a.skybroadband.com] has joined #openttd 22:35:00 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 22:38:59 *** LadyHawk [~LadyHawk@5751e87a.skybroadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:39:15 *** LadyHawk [~LadyHawk@5751e87a.skybroadband.com] has joined #openttd 22:43:06 *** LadyHawk- [~LadyHawk@5751e87a.skybroadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:45:11 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 23:06:30 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@y32.ip1.anvianet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:10:49 <_dp_> hm, making all trees in group to be the same time looks interesting but has almost no impact on save size... 23:10:55 <_dp_> *type 23:17:45 <_dp_> http://imgur.com/eP7uvJL 23:18:43 <ST2> you can even name those tree's groups "National Parks" xD 23:18:46 <Wolf01> mmmh, it does not really convince me 23:20:26 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:21:00 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6B835.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:21:42 <_dp_> without random that ugly diamond shape really stands for some groups 23:21:46 <_dp_> *out 23:28:08 *** FLHerne [~flh@cpc4-papw5-2-0-cust175.5-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!] 23:36:20 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 23:47:40 *** supermop_ [~supermop@pool-100-37-203-161.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 23:56:10 *** NoShlomo [~NoShlomo@90.74.151.136] has quit [Quit: NoShlomo]