Log for #openttd on 15th June 2016:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:01:51  <Supercheese> sounds good
00:02:07  <Supercheese> could add commas if you like commas
00:02:10  <Supercheese> optional though
00:02:23  <Samu> This removes yet another stall during game state copy, while reducing the size of the map that is to be compressed and then sent to the client.
00:03:49  <Samu> game state copy or game state copying?
00:04:55  <Supercheese> either, but I'd like the -ing
00:05:04  <Samu> ok, thx for the help
00:05:10  <Samu> fixing it
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00:08:46  <Samu> okay, cyas all goodnight
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00:35:36  <supermop_> yo Supercheese
00:36:04  <supermop_> feel like havent seen you around in awhile
00:37:19  * Supercheese shrugs
00:37:22  <Supercheese> I idle a lot
00:38:49  <supermop_> how's it going
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00:52:49  <Supercheese> War Thunder
00:52:55  <Supercheese> lots of War Thunder
00:53:17  <Supercheese> and Stellaris
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01:07:37  <supermop_> good?
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01:09:49  <skrzyp> good.
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07:57:19  <Samu> hi
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08:20:00  <Wolf01> o/
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08:50:49  <Samu> Trans crashed, took too long to save
08:50:55  <Samu> oh hell...
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09:21:02  <Wolf01> >_> V453000 did you release something? I see achievements on the factorio page
09:25:09  <V453000> the achievement have been there for like 2 weeks now
09:25:17  <V453000> but train graphics are in master now :)
09:25:23  <V453000> awesomeness intensifies
09:25:52  <Wolf01> really achievements were already there? I never noticed them in the last days
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09:33:04  <Wolf01> btw have you seen the new dlc for fallout 4? it's going full factorio
09:33:37  <Sacro> V453000: factorio dev?
09:34:47  <Wolf01> no, it happens that he is just one of their graphics designers
09:35:00  <Sacro> Ahh
09:35:11  <Sacro> Tbh I see a lot of crossover between TTD and Factorio
09:35:38  <Wolf01> yes, they share even the userbase
09:35:40  <Wolf01> XD
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10:22:53  <ConductorCat> :3
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10:55:15  <monsted_> i'd love to see a full integration between factorio and openttd. use factorio worlds as cities in openttd and use openttd transportation between them
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10:57:37  <Samu> the last 5
10:59:45  <Samu> top - PathZilla, SimpleAI
11:00:01  <Samu> mid - Trans, RoadAI
11:00:09  <Samu> bot - CivilAI
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12:01:40  <Eddi|zuHause> i suppose that's a step up from "i want sim city integrated into openttd"
12:02:54  <Wolf01> I would like ottd integrated in factorio
12:03:45  <Eddi|zuHause> how about integrating openttd into eu4?
12:04:20  <Wolf01> windward into ottd would be cool
12:05:33  <Eddi|zuHause> well, the "windward islands" are already in eu4 :p
12:05:59  <Alkel_U3> How about factorio in openttd in eu4 in master of orion 2
12:06:58  <Wolf01> what I really want is a true sandbox game where you are not limited by the scope of the game
12:07:47  <Wolf01> for example minecraft heavily modded is about what I want
12:08:39  <monsted_> Wolf01: there are mods that try to add decent train logic in factorio, but there's a ways to go yet
12:10:56  <Alkel_U3> well, .13 should basicaly have programmable signals, right?
12:13:05  <Wolf01> I don't mean just trains, I'm already happy with the current ones (and the upcoming features will be fantastic), but for example I feel that the game misses some "macro" automation, after you've set up the 125th mine, even with blueprints, you might want something more automated, like you find a new ore spot and place a single machinery instead of waiting for your swarm of flying fucks to
12:13:05  <Wolf01> empty your inventory full of belts and harvesters
12:13:51  <monsted_> it does have a scalability problem
12:14:03  <Wolf01> the bucket wheel mod is a good start imho
12:14:28  <monsted_> i just put down a Mk3 bucket wheel excavator :)
12:14:37  <monsted_> like, literally a minute ago
12:16:14  <monsted_> orbital ion cannons helps with another of the scalability issues - it becomes soooooo tedious to out aliens when the evolution level hits max
12:16:27  <monsted_> s/to out/to clear out/
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12:22:00  <Wolf01> also different wagons with different (un)loading methods would be cool, like hoppers for ores and the current system only for goods
12:23:04  <Wolf01> I know the spirit of the game is to use the inserters for everything, but it gets boring after some time
12:24:53  <Wolf01> different means of transportation, reduce the inventory space of the car (a buggy doesn't need so much space), add half-tracked lorries with trailers
12:28:05  <Wolf01> and this one will get me stabbed in the back for sure: different size for items, it's funny you can store 50000 trains in a crate, they shouldn't be stackable and use up to 3x6 squares in inventory, or even built in depots connected to tracks
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12:33:10  <Wolf01> and a use for the rockets: quick delivery anywhere, you load stuff in the silo, build a rocket and ask an orbital drop 10000km away in the lone outpost
12:49:37  <Samu> Rip OpenTTD
12:59:30  <Alkel_U3> Or a 50kt payload onto an especially nasty boter nest :D
13:00:18  <Alkel_U3> s/bo/bi/
13:01:24  <Wolf01> yeah, I'm trying to clean up the route for my railway and I have huge nests with behemoths all the way :|
13:01:38  <Wolf01> I would like a good way to wipe them out
13:03:00  <Alkel_U3> the orbital cannons are handy
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13:13:58  <Samu> so this chat is now offtopic
13:14:28  <Samu> - why do ppl like that reach end game maps
13:20:17  <Samu> ever since PoE became announced on Steam, it's been downfalling
13:29:21  <Alkel_U3> I don't see how you got the idea of the channel being offtopic. It's Factorio with some OpenTTD to fill in the gaps. Seems pretty consistent to me ;)
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13:38:43  <Wolf01> heh, cleared the little nest
13:39:01  <Wolf01> it took 3 hours
13:39:29  <Wolf01> with laser turrets, rockets, capsules
13:53:46  <Samu> question, Foster bus and Foster MKii Superbus can't reach their max speeds
13:53:51  <Samu> bug or intended?
13:54:35  <Samu> i've set them going in a straight top NW to south SE on a 64x4096 road
13:55:20  <Samu> using realistic acceleration
13:55:37  <Samu> no slopes at all in the terrain, it's plain
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13:56:42  <Samu> foster bus maxes out at 101/102 km/h
13:57:05  <Samu> foster superbus maxes out at 118/119 km/h
13:58:05  <Samu> 101/102 out of 112 km/h, and 118/119 out of 127 km/h.
13:58:25  <Samu> fully loaded
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14:08:44  <supermop> i doubt those were designed with realistic accelleration in mind
14:09:36  <Samu> testing toyland buses
14:10:58  <Samu> toyland buses can reach their max speeds
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14:25:33  <supermop> Alkel_U3: how goes the server?
14:26:50  <Alkel_U3> supermop: probably running for real this time? :D
14:27:31  <Alkel_U3> I don't know, I literally just got home
14:28:00  <supermop> out all night?
14:28:02  <Alkel_U3> Like 10 s before you wrote
14:28:07  <supermop> till 4 pm?
14:28:45  <Alkel_U3> The server was out again?
14:30:10  <supermop> hmm?
14:30:25  <Alkel_U3> Oh, me
14:30:36  <supermop> just remarking that it must be late for you to be just getting home
14:30:51  <supermop> unless you mean home from a days work
14:31:10  <Alkel_U3> Yes, from work
14:32:03  <supermop> I was able to get capacity up a bit last night
14:32:09  <Alkel_U3> oh, great. No welcome home beer in the fridge...
14:32:15  <supermop> noooooooooo
14:32:47  <Alkel_U3> Save me mr. Freezer
14:33:23  <supermop> we are running low ourselves - dinner was a spicy xian / western chinese noodle dish that required me to kill off the last of the lager
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14:33:56  <supermop> and now we are down to one can of a summer ale and one of a belgian pale ale
14:34:09  <Alberth> moin
14:34:14  <supermop> yo Alberth
14:34:19  <Alkel_U3> hay
14:34:49  <Alkel_U3> I still have some in stock, but I'll have to restock before saturday for party :-)
14:35:20  <Alkel_U3> I actually connected in the morning for a bit, saw your request
14:35:26  <supermop> nice
14:35:43  <supermop> i need farglider to connect me at the other end of the valley too
14:35:52  <supermop> haven't looked at it yet today though
14:36:36  <Alkel_U3> I also saw that you added a platform at the first hub to the west - that's for me or do you want me to move my line so you can have three platforms?
14:37:07  <Alkel_U3> or make it combined
14:37:17  <supermop> i was thinking i'd need three when i tripled the line, but for now i think i am ok
14:42:25  <Alkel_U3> hm, I see you have some trains permanently stopped in depots - that's on purpose?
14:42:52  <supermop> yeah, in the process of being cascaded, moving stock around
14:43:13  <Wolf01> o/ Alberth
14:43:20  <Sacro> \o Wolf01
14:43:30  <Alberth> o/ Sacro
14:43:36  <supermop> those stanleys will work freight branches now that the SW line is streamliner expresses and emu locals
14:44:21  <supermop> saving the old-fashioned passenger cars to extend emu trains in the future
14:45:05  <supermop> need a line up and over that center southern bay to move old stock to the eastern line
14:45:09  <Alkel_U3> oh, wow, I'll have to add more platforms along that route from Dagon Fel, as well as more trains. Insane traffic
14:45:25  <supermop> on my line or yours?
14:45:30  <Alkel_U3> mine
14:45:33  <supermop> ok
14:46:09  <Wolf01> are you playing a Tamriel map?
14:46:23  <supermop> im losing money apparently
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14:46:32  <Alkel_U3> just using Elder Srolls town names :-)
14:46:36  <Wolf01> :)
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14:47:32  <Alkel_U3> crap internet connection again?
14:47:35  <supermop> having trouble connecting
14:47:44  <supermop> yeah ill try later
14:48:54  <supermop> going to go get a snack or something
14:49:38  <Sacro> o/ Alberth
14:49:57  <Alkel_U3> good thing that I complained about the beer - I'd otherwise didn't have a track of the time of inserting it in the freezer
14:53:01  <Wolf01> mmmh, I wonder how .99 became €4.38
14:53:14  <supermop> haha
14:53:44  <Wolf01> I expected €3.55
14:54:19  <supermop> been a long time since EUR was that weak relative to USD
14:54:36  <supermop> who's selling?
14:54:39  <Wolf01> I think I was charged by paypal fees
14:54:44  <supermop> ah
14:54:55  <Wolf01> but nothing says that
14:54:58  <supermop> so not just blatant price discrimination
14:55:14  <Wolf01> s/by/of
14:55:52  <supermop> either is about the same, i'd actually just say 'charged paypal fees'
14:56:33  <supermop> charged of sounds a bit odd
14:56:36  <Wolf01> so... 11 more steam games, I'm without hope
14:56:58  <Alkel_U3> of playing them all :P
14:57:20  <Wolf01> I already have 400+ games waiting to be played
14:57:25  <Alkel_U3> same
14:57:31  <supermop> charged by kind of makes since in a cartoonish was as it personifies the fees themselves rather than paypal
15:09:10  <Alberth> Wolf01: card may now only be used to give to charity, at least until you played > 200 games
15:10:22  <monsted_> supermop: the EUR is plummeting because britain seems to be leaving
15:10:58  <supermop> monsted_: EUR is still worth more than 1 USD
15:12:09  <supermop> also technically UK is not a member of the Euro currency, so the value of the GBP or the absence of it does not directly affect European central banks or the value of the EUR
15:13:13  <monsted_> it affects the EU in general, so people are losing confidence in it
15:13:36  <supermop> the UK leaving will cause market uncertainty and likely impede the economies of member countries
15:14:04  <monsted_> and it's not like investment is particularly logical, a lot of movement seems pretty random
15:14:15  <supermop> but at this time there only speculative pressure on the EUR rather than hard valuation pressure
15:14:55  <supermop> but Wolf01 should still pay less than 4 EUR for something that costs 4 USD at today's rates
15:15:44  <Wolf01> the difference is VAT, but they should have said that
15:16:03  <Wolf01> the price they show is VAT free
15:16:40  <supermop> also market uncertainty about UK exit is also exerting downward pressures on US markets, as non-unified market makes Europe a less certain trading partner
15:17:09  <supermop> so USD should also be pressed down by a similar, but weaker amount
15:17:52  <supermop> as of course US is less dependent on EU as EU is on Britain, but it is still a major economic partner
15:18:07  <supermop> not just for export, but in coordinating monetary policy
15:19:10  <supermop> although currently the UK, Fed and ECB do coordinate and would presumably continue to do so
15:19:38  <supermop> BoE more precisely than UK as a whole
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16:45:26  <supermop> yo andythenorth
16:46:08  <Wolf01> o/
16:47:32  <andythenorth> o/
16:48:00  <supermop> lunch time
16:49:00  <Samu> found another bug in scenario editor
16:49:48  <Samu> oh nope, not a bug, my bad
16:51:27  * andythenorth has been writing automation since Sunday
16:51:28  <andythenorth> to save time
16:52:38  <andythenorth> result
16:52:58  <andythenorth> deleted about 200 lines of code to get to that
16:53:05  <andythenorth> or more
16:53:09  <Alkel_U3> yes, save time :-)
16:59:32  <andythenorth> it also saves time by codifying some design decisions and preventing other choices in future
16:59:36  <andythenorth> less thinking :P
16:59:39  <andythenorth> less testing :P
16:59:43  <andythenorth> less changing stuff :P
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17:05:24  <Alberth> ha, I'd need to see that first :)
17:06:31  <Alberth> :O    @property magic
17:06:44  <Alberth> never got the hang of those @ things :)
17:06:50  <andythenorth> I like @property decorator
17:06:56  <andythenorth> I am unconvinced by any others
17:07:00  <andythenorth> including setter version
17:07:13  <Alberth> sounds right :)
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17:27:07  <andythenorth> I should release another Road Hog beta
17:27:15  <andythenorth> but I don’t know what new bugs I introduced :P
17:39:47  <Samu>  just checked all road vehicles
17:40:08  <Samu> there's only 2 models that won't reach maximum speed in a straight road
17:40:18  <Samu> the two Foster bus models
17:42:07  <supermop> Samu: none of the default vehicles were designed with realistic acceleration in mind
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17:48:33  <Samu> t.t - took me a while to test all tilesets
17:58:11  <supermop> those vehicles were conceived in the early 90s, long long before anyone thought about applying any sort of physics to the game
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18:12:15  <supermop> I guess some people, if a friend told them that they were really enjoying hanging out, would then feel compelled to never see that friend again
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18:13:10  <supermop> because if someone else enjoys your company, clearly they are gaining from it, and therefore you are losing something?
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18:13:48  <andythenorth> zero sum?
18:15:23  <supermop> seems to be the argument
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18:15:39  <supermop> not my fight but frustrating to watch nonetheless
18:15:48  <supermop> also it is relevant to New York
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18:16:01  <supermop> although that more fuel for 'leave'
18:16:07  <Alberth> ha, so if I hate to have you around, you'd never leave? :p
18:16:32  <supermop> "New York is better off if we stay in, therefore we must leave!"
18:17:03  <supermop> I am suspecting it is less about self-benefit, and more about spite at this point
18:17:31  <Samu> the entirety of users just left and joined openttd
18:18:15  <supermop> as most of the arguments seem to hinge on 'do they benefit' rather than 'do we see any real harm'
18:18:30  <supermop> Samu: we only say you leave and rejoin
18:18:45  <supermop> Samu only netsplit i guess
18:20:16  <Samu> ah, so that's what a netsplit is
18:20:43  <andythenorth> hmm, maybe 100 changes since last RH beta
18:21:03  <frosch123> hola
18:21:38  <andythenorth> quak
18:21:39  <supermop> usually at least some users would be on the same side of the split as you
18:21:55  <supermop> but seems in this case only you were on that side of the break
18:22:32  <supermop> so presumably it was somewhat physically close to you
18:27:38  <andythenorth> most of coding is choosing the names it seems :P
18:31:05  <Alberth> avoids getting confused
18:34:55  <Alkel_U3> supermop: so what about the internet now :-)
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18:41:19  <supermop> been doing actual work haven't tried recently
18:41:57  <Alkel_U3> oh, I forgot you're at work :-)
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18:48:39  <andythenorth> bloody Road Hog
18:48:53  <andythenorth> :P
18:49:24  <Alberth> everything painted red :p
18:49:36  <andythenorth> I want it done, but I want it good
18:49:44  <andythenorth> rock, hard place
18:49:49  <andythenorth> ocean, deep blue sea
18:49:50  <andythenorth> etc
18:50:01  <andythenorth> moon, new york city
18:50:28  * andythenorth wants to start Nautilius, but things must be finished first
18:53:58  <supermop> ooh boy
18:54:38  <supermop> first time i've gotten a godwin's law response out of someone
18:55:39  <supermop> particularly impressive seeing the subject at hand
18:57:01  <Alkel_U3> I hope it was something like influence of unicorn overpopulation on banana fertility
18:57:07  * andythenorth looks at openttd
18:57:19  <andythenorth> ha ha, Iron Horse is so distant from reality for British trains
18:57:26  <andythenorth> dunno why I was worrying about Road Hog realism
18:57:37  <supermop> andythenorth: needs more 08s
18:57:43  <andythenorth> zero is a good number
18:57:46  <andythenorth> for gronks
18:58:21  <andythenorth> I would have had to make it 650hp and 65mph or so
18:58:30  <andythenorth> instead of 350hp and 17mph or so
19:00:11  <supermop> just round up to 1/8 length, 2000hp, 125mph
19:02:36  <supermop> also have you seen one of those in real life? they are pretty bulky to have only 350 hp in them
19:02:44  <supermop> even considering their age
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19:08:20  <supermop> hmmm... feed trolls?
19:08:43  <Wolf01> V453000, hype
19:09:09  <Wolf01> andythenorth, VW beetle hype
19:10:32  <supermop> i'm feeling yes, feed
19:10:44  <supermop> actually maybe i am the troll?
19:14:51  <andythenorth> “if you don’t know who the troll is, you’re the troll”
19:14:59  <andythenorth> ach, no, that’s poke
19:15:01  <andythenorth> poker *
19:15:12  <andythenorth> Wolf01: looks nice, not something I’d buy, but design is sharp eh?
19:18:13  * andythenorth considers writing a parser to read an nml template and put the sprite template values into the compile
19:18:30  <andythenorth> this is definitely more logical than putting the values in the compile, and writing them into the nml template :P
19:19:15  <Wolf01> I can't not buy it, I have the transporter, the mini cooper, the F40... :D
19:19:47  <andythenorth> fair
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19:21:29  <supermop> Wolf01: i had my eye on the f40
19:21:32  <supermop> how is it
19:22:17  <Wolf01> really good
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19:23:30  <andythenorth> so I need to detect all 8 angles individually in row of vehicle sprites
19:23:35  <andythenorth> with PIL
19:23:43  <Wolf01> I like how they made the air intakes
19:23:55  <andythenorth> (1) know the co-ordinates of the blue boxes on the template?
19:24:07  <andythenorth> (2) detect the white gutters between the blue boxes automatically with PIL?
19:24:14  <andythenorth> every spritesheet has same template
19:25:05  <supermop> Wolf01: yeah the naca ducts looked clever
19:29:15  <andythenorth> the beetle is spectacularly better than the previous dark blue one
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19:32:00  <Wolf01> different styles
19:37:25  <Alberth> find non-white boxes?
19:38:50  <Alberth> I am pretty sure I wrote that somewhen in the past, but for what again??? :(
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19:42:31  <Alberth>  <-- andythenorth  ??  may it be useful to you
19:42:56  <andythenorth> ho
19:43:00  <andythenorth> find any box that’s not white
19:43:23  <andythenorth> nicely done
19:44:08  <andythenorth> the simplest way is just to move the nml sprite template co-ordinates into the compile
19:44:17  <andythenorth> auto-detecting it is much cooler
19:44:23  <Alberth> :)
19:44:36  <Alberth> less faster too :p
19:44:37  <andythenorth> do I want ‘cool’ or ‘done in 5 mins’? :P
19:47:46  * andythenorth will decide tomorrow :)
19:47:49  <andythenorth> bye
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20:18:27  <supermop> Alkel_U3: still no luck
20:26:27  <Alkel_U3> joys of internet connection in 2016 :-)
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20:31:43  <Alkel_U3> supermop: well, I'm gonna take advantage of you still not requiring the extra platform in Dagon Fel - I increased traffic there considerably so it's handy for me :-)
20:31:57  <supermop> ok
20:36:18  <Alkel_U3> if you'll want me to scooch over, just build an extra platform and leave a sign
20:36:25  <Alkel_U3> please
20:42:56  <Samu> RoadAI reached 2051 :)
20:49:29  <supermop> wont have time to play tonight at home - going straight from work to a concert in brooklyn
20:53:43  <Alkel_U3> I probably won't play too much till sunday
20:56:26  <supermop> i could use a new house set
20:57:03  <supermop> swedish houses is the last new, full town set to my knowledge
20:57:41  <supermop> i wonder whatever happened to that guy making the nice tropical/favela houses
20:58:29  <Alkel_U3> I started doing one for same reason, but I got barely anything done. I need to motivate myself more
21:03:08  <Alkel_U3> I can't even find the little what's done on my hdd >:I
21:16:54  <Samu> uhm... i'm looking at syntrans info.nut and, I don't think there's anything wrong with it, but when I try to change the max distance value in OpenTTD, it changes the log level instead if I got dev tools disabled
21:17:05  <Samu> of*
21:17:17  <Samu> my english.... !
21:19:34  <Samu>
21:20:06  <Samu> AddLabels part is changing the value of the hidden setting,
21:20:11  <Samu> log level
21:20:29  <supermop> i've started various attempts both in 8bpp pixel art and rendered sprites over the years, but yeah i never had the motivation for it
21:21:58  <Samu> looks like the bug is in the gui part of the code
21:22:06  <Samu> ai_gui.cpp
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21:28:09  <Alkel_U3> I still didn't find the sprites but I found an old photo reminding me of another project I was going to perform
21:31:04  <supermop> pickling something?
21:32:11  <Alkel_U3> yeah, wursts
21:32:29  *** Biolunar [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:33:05  <Alkel_U3> 3 years since the last time, I can't get myself to do it
21:34:41  <Alkel_U3> strange thing is that it's not even that hard to make and the result was great... well, I guess I'll pick up the ingredients tommorow, lest I forget about it again
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21:42:23  <Alkel_U3> anyway gnight
21:44:47  <Samu> this is gonna be hard to report, i need some help
21:45:16  <Samu> Dropdown Setting is changing value of non-visible Parameter
21:45:43  <Samu> steps to reproducing it are hard
21:45:57  <Samu> i dont know how to begin
21:51:13  <Samu> needs several tools at once
21:51:20  <Samu> a .tar extractor
21:51:34  <Samu> a txt editor
21:51:59  <Samu> a specific value in a setting in openttd.cfg
21:52:36  <Samu> I'm already lost
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22:09:03  <Samu> Anyone please tell me if this report is clear enough, or if it is confusing
22:09:29  <Samu> do i have to attach syntrans or will you download it from bananas?
22:09:59  <Samu> I suspect it is a iterator problem in ai_gui.cpp
22:12:59  <ST2> Samu: about 6479, did the changes got applies on server full restart?
22:13:11  <ST2> applied*
22:13:26  <Samu> when i close openttd, it changes log_level instead
22:13:33  <Samu> and not route_distance
22:13:47  <Samu> i made typo in the report t.t
22:13:52  <Samu> can't edit it
22:15:07  <ST2> so, is that an Interface bug or a AI bug?
22:15:38  <Samu> interface bug in my opinion
22:16:00  <Samu> refresh, i added a comment
22:16:32  <ST2> note: test a bunch of GS's and try modify parameters - some dnt apply
22:16:43  <ST2> and by some, I mean not all
22:17:23  <ST2> so, you have a long way of reporting Interface bugs
22:17:43  <Samu> it seems to be a bug with dropdowns, and text querying
22:17:49  <ST2> not saying that can't be a bug there... only saying that your info is way too short
22:17:51  <Samu> and another.. let me see ai_gui.cpp
22:18:26  <Samu> 	virtual void OnQueryTextFinished(char *str)
22:18:34  <Samu> virtual void OnDropdownSelect(int widget, int index)
22:18:38  <Samu> okay, just these 2
22:18:56  <Samu> line 542, and line 531
22:19:00  <Samu> ai_gui.cpp
22:19:15  <Samu> these 2 functions are not taking into account if the parameter is hidden or not
22:21:17  <Samu> funny that i've been working intensively with ai_gui.cpp these last 2 months and only now I saw this
22:21:46  <ST2> 1 thing is sure, OpenTTD (at current state) have some issues on modify files under W7 / W10 - depending on your security settings
22:21:53  <ST2> even with a fresh install
22:22:47  <Samu> I don't know how to fix this :(
22:23:00  <Samu> it's a problem with the iterator
22:23:18  <Samu> i was never successful when i messed with iterators before
22:23:34  <Samu> won't even try
22:24:09  <ST2> well, since I make my changes directly on cfg files and don't use ui's, I can't help you much :S
22:28:59  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:31:30  <Samu> on a different note, SimpleAI server reached 2051
22:31:40  <Samu> only 3 AIs remain
22:33:08  <ST2> Samu: have you tried changings with other AI's?
22:33:25  <Samu> the other AIs appear to be doing it fine
22:33:39  <ST2> so, it's an AI issue, not interface
22:33:52  <Samu> because they only put the hiden parameters after all the others
22:34:05  <ST2> read above
22:34:07  <Samu> syntrans put a hidden parameter before a visible parameter
22:34:14  <ST2> read above
22:34:52  <Samu> what do I read? "have you tried changings with other AI's?"
22:35:08  <ST2> [23:33:24] <Samu> the other AIs appear to be doing it fine
22:35:08  <ST2> [23:33:37] <ST2> so, it's an AI issue, not interface
22:35:28  *** NoShlomo [~NoShlomo@] has quit [Quit: NoShlomo]
22:35:42  <Samu> it's not easy
22:35:53  <ST2> you dnt say ^^
22:35:55  <Samu> and i answered to that
22:36:08  <Samu> the author of syntrans, have put 2 parameters on his ai
22:36:29  <Samu> in order, parameter 1 is a hiden parameter, parameter 2 is a visible parameter
22:36:54  <Samu> since he put the hidden parameter before a visible parameter, the iterator thinks the change is for the hidden one
22:37:12  <Samu> the iterator isn't taking that into account
22:37:20  <Samu> it just put the whole list of parameters
22:37:56  <Samu> OnClick is doing it right
22:38:05  <ST2> well, did that happen with any other AI?
22:38:09  <Samu> its iterator is going thru only visible parameters
22:39:53  <ST2> because I dnt see a reason any setting to be hidden
22:40:05  <Samu> it's a console command
22:40:18  <Samu> setting gui.ai_developer_tools true or false
22:40:22  <ST2> oh, right
22:40:26  <Samu> true will show them
22:40:32  <Samu> false will hide them
22:40:37  <ST2> like changing max spectators
22:42:01  <Samu> the other AIs, i suspect, they're only putting the hidden parameters after all the visible ones, so the iterator won't bug here
22:42:21  <Samu> didn't really check, but
22:42:22  <ST2> it's all on infonut
22:42:24  <Samu> seems to be the case
22:42:32  <ST2> info.nut*
22:42:34  <ST2> right?
22:42:39  <Samu> info.nut, yes
22:43:02  <ST2> there you can see each settings properties
22:43:30  <ST2> have you ever thought that info.nut fileds properties can be wrongly set?
22:43:41  <Samu> yeah, that's what I thought at first
22:44:08  <Samu> but then i enabled dev_tools and it started doing it fine
22:44:42  <Samu> then i went to check ai_gui.cpp in visual studio and yeah, it is not caring if that parameter is set hidden or not
22:45:26  <ST2> ttd cpp file in VS?!
22:45:32  <ST2> are you crazy?
22:45:51  <Samu> yes, it's what i've been using to edit
22:45:56  <ST2> use it only to compile
22:46:04  <ST2> not more
22:46:17  <Samu> visual c++ express 2015 whatever bla bla
22:46:32  <ST2> as I said, use it only to compile
22:46:51  <ST2> nothing else
22:46:51  <Samu> but why? I've been doing fine, except for a few annoying auto-formating
22:47:23  <ST2> exactly those reasons
22:48:04  <Samu> i already got used to them :/
22:48:13  <Samu> there must be a way to disable some formatting
22:48:18  <Samu> but i didn't bother to find out yet
22:48:44  <ST2> same as I trust more on check info.nut file and define variables on cfg's manually
22:49:19  <ST2> if you enter on GUI's work there... prepare for nightmares
22:50:20  <ST2> well, info.nut are kinda easy to get working on ttd GUI
22:50:46  <ST2> and I changed alot myself, due the lots of GS's we use on our servers
22:51:19  <ST2> and if something is not working... trust me, info.nut has something wrong on it
22:51:50  <Samu> can u check syntrans info.nut?
22:52:12  <ST2> what's syntrans?
22:52:23  <Samu> I suspected about  'flags = 0'
22:52:52  <Samu> the AI that I used to reproduce this bug
22:53:11  <ST2> ah, a AI
22:53:43  <ST2> can you ask to the real synstrans dev?
22:54:23  <Samu> 0 is another name for AICONFIG_NONE
22:55:48  <Samu> AddSetting({name = "log_level", description = "The amount of AI messages to display in the AI log.  Higher=More messages", easy_value = 2, medium_value = 2, hard_value = 2, custom_value = 2, min_value = 1, max_value = 3, flags = CONFIG_INGAME | CONFIG_DEVELOPER });
22:56:35  <ST2> easy_value = 2, medium_value = 2, hard_value = 2, custom_value = 2
22:56:39  <ST2> really?!
22:56:54  <Samu> it's a log
22:57:04  <ST2> all 2
22:57:05  <ST2> ?
22:57:19  <ST2> are there any real levels?!
22:57:26  <Samu> it's a difficulty setting
22:57:38  <Samu> and what it prints in the ai debug window
22:57:51  <Samu> the amunt of what it prints, i guess it doesn't matter what difficulty
22:58:13  <ST2> and what's the differences between: easy_value = 2, medium_value = 2, hard_value = 2, custom_value = 2
22:58:15  <ST2> ??
22:58:28  <Samu> that's the difficulty preset for AIs
22:58:38  <ST2> are ALL 2
22:58:44  <ST2> what's the differences?!
22:58:50  <Samu> grr :(
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22:59:04  <Samu> there's easy, medium, hard and custom, but i guess custom was eliminated
22:59:16  <ST2> yes, that I see
22:59:31  <ST2> but values for easy, medium, hard and custom, are ALL 2
22:59:44  <Samu> easy preset is to have the ai behave like a noob
22:59:58  <Samu> hard preset is to have it behave like a master
23:00:04  <ST2> noob is 2
23:00:05  <Samu> it's the log_level
23:00:09  <ST2> hard is 2
23:00:17  <ST2> so?!
23:00:18  <Samu> meh i give up lol
23:01:12  <Samu> there's a text log that AIs print on the AI/Debug Window
23:01:19  <ST2> somewhere in AI code, "log_level" is taken in account
23:01:32  <ST2> but all difficulty levels are 2
23:01:42  <ST2> so, there's no change at all
23:01:45  <Samu> yes, it will print the same amount of information
23:01:49  <Samu> regardless of
23:01:51  <Samu> difficulty
23:02:15  <ST2> wich is another setting, right?
23:02:19  <Samu> yes
23:02:24  <ST2> set like the above one?
23:02:40  <Samu> AddSetting({name = "route_distance", description = "The distance of the vehicle routes built by SynTrans", easy_value = 1, medium_value = 1, hard_value = 1, custom_value = 1, min_value = 1, max_value = 3, flags = 0});
23:02:49  <Samu> this settings has flags = 0
23:02:52  <ST2> easy_value = 1, medium_value = 1, hard_value = 1, custom_value = 1, min_value = 1
23:02:56  <ST2> always 1
23:03:08  <Samu> keks, blame the author
23:03:23  <ST2> so, is that an interface issue?
23:03:33  <Samu> no, that's what the author decided
23:03:35  <ST2> or an author's thing?
23:03:54  <Samu> AddLabels("route_distance", { 			_1 = "Short", 			_2 = "Medium", 			_3 = "Long" 		});
23:03:57  <ST2> well, your bug report says there's an Interface bug
23:04:17  <Samu> the bug is on OpenTTD's end
23:04:21  <Samu> not on the AI
23:04:36  <ST2> AddLabels("route_distance", { 			_1 = "Short", 			_2 = "Medium", 			_3 = "Long" 		});
23:04:41  <ST2> all give !
23:04:44  <ST2> 1*
23:05:42  <Samu> brb
23:05:43  <ST2> and, as expected, the value don't change
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23:06:09  <Samu> ScriptConfigItemList::const_iterator it = this->ai_config->GetConfigList()->begin();
23:06:20  <ST2> nah
23:06:27  <ST2> check info.nut
23:06:43  <Samu> it gets the whole list, it has 3 parameters, 1 is the start_date, the other 2 are given from info.nut
23:06:57  <ST2> values for route_distance are ALWAYS 1
23:07:12  <ST2> if set on GUI
23:07:31  <Samu> when you change them on gui, they are supposed to be going from 1 to 3
23:07:48  <ST2> if set on cfg files, you can reach min 1 and max 3
23:07:50  <Samu> it changes them, but applies it to log_level instead
23:08:54  <ST2> so, as I said, if happens in other AI's... it's an OpenTTD bug
23:09:06  <ST2> if ONLY on this AI... what you think?
23:09:30  <Samu> brb, let me get ai_gui.cpp for you
23:09:46  <ST2> I dnt need ai_gui.cpp
23:10:37  <ST2> as you said, it works well with other AI's
23:10:55  <Samu>;a=blob;f=src/ai/ai_gui.cpp;h=a0720e2ea50483529ac0aa4e56c5dfcdbecd076e;hb=3d54c33180b0babe6817e9b0a6b35eb66b71a6eb#l334
23:12:15  <Samu> line 334, the iterator there deals with visible settings only
23:12:42  <Samu> DrawWidget also deals with it properly
23:12:45  <Samu> OnClick also
23:12:49  <Samu> but then...
23:13:11  <Samu> line 531 and line 542
23:13:18  <ST2> Samu: why GUI should deal with unvisible settings?
23:13:21  <Samu> the iterators there, forget about visible settings
23:13:37  <Samu> erm, hidden settings*
23:13:51  <ST2> question remains
23:13:53  <Samu> because ai dev tools can be set to false or true
23:14:05  <Samu> it won't display them in the AI Parameters window if it's false
23:14:20  <ST2> so, that means you can handle them
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23:14:46  <Samu> if i set them visible, I can change them
23:14:53  <Samu> try both modes
23:15:03  <Samu> setting gui.ai_developer_tools 0
23:15:05  <Samu> setting gui.ai_developer_tools 1
23:15:08  <ST2> Í only try what my knowledges allow
23:15:09  <Samu> u'll notice a difference
23:15:23  <ST2> and I change many of them... on cfg files
23:15:24  <Samu> there are parameters that pop up/hide
23:16:12  <ST2> if you mess with "setting gui.ai_developer_tools" it's because you have knowledges to handle with them
23:16:18  <ST2> and what comes next
23:16:22  <ST2> correct?
23:16:35  <Samu> grr, let me show a screenshot
23:16:39  <Samu> or 2 actualy, brb
23:16:42  <ST2> dnt need
23:16:50  <ST2> [00:16:10] <ST2> if you mess with "setting gui.ai_developer_tools" it's because you have knowledges to handle with them
23:16:50  <ST2> [00:16:16] <ST2> and what comes next
23:16:50  <ST2> [00:16:19] <ST2> correct?
23:17:21  <ST2> note: I hate quote myself :S
23:19:50  <Samu> - hidden parameter vs visible parameter
23:20:52  <Samu> 1 = visible, 0 = hidden
23:21:02  <ST2> Samu: I deal enough with "AddCategory(..." , "AddSetting(..."  ,and "AddLabels(..." on info.nut
23:21:14  <Samu> ok check the flags of the first parameter
23:21:37  <Samu> then check the iterator on line 542
23:21:40  <Samu> oops
23:21:46  <Samu>;a=blob;f=src/ai/ai_gui.cpp;h=a0720e2ea50483529ac0aa4e56c5dfcdbecd076e;hb=3d54c33180b0babe6817e9b0a6b35eb66b71a6eb#l542
23:22:04  <Samu> it disregards if the list contains hidden parameters
23:22:32  <ST2> hidden from beggining?
23:22:50  <ST2> or changed later (console, for example)
23:22:50  <Samu> the visible parameter which is number 3, becomes number 2 suddenly
23:23:02  <ST2> [00:22:30] <ST2> hidden from beggining?
23:23:10  <ST2> or changed later?
23:23:15  <Samu> when u set the value to number 3, it changes the invisible parameter number 2 instead
23:23:23  <ST2> damn fuck
23:23:26  <Samu> lol
23:23:30  <Samu> hehehe
23:23:32  <ST2> I can't make simple questions
23:24:24  <Samu> the iterator in ai_gui.cpp finds 3 parameters, and then just applies it based on the row where u clicked
23:24:27  <ST2> because if you change on console, GUI won't get it - that's 101
23:24:37  <ST2> and as I said
23:24:38  <Samu> the 3rd parameter with is the route_distance
23:24:43  <ST2> I made 1 question
23:24:51  <ST2> was expecting an answer
23:25:15  <Samu> it refreshes the config, there's an OnInvalidateData, it's "instant"
23:25:32  <ST2> Samu: look above, I made a question
23:25:47  <ST2> you're being ignored for that
23:26:00  <ST2> and I'll start soon too
23:26:41  <Samu> we better stop indeed, we're getting nowhere, I insist it's a bug in ai_gui.cpp, you insist it's syntrans info.nut
23:27:01  <ST2> yeah
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23:28:15  <ST2> I asked: [00:22:30] <ST2> hidden from beggining?
23:28:46  <ST2> because changes can do the trick and really discover if there's a bug
23:29:41  <Samu> i opened the parameters window first, then only after did I typed that into the console
23:30:06  <ST2> Samu: please, don't ever call me to your problems - I already have too many servers to handle with
23:30:12  <Samu> oki
23:31:16  <Samu> I don't really see the point in your question
23:31:45  <ST2> [00:30:04] <ST2> Samu: please, don't ever call me to your problems - I already have too many servers to handle with  <<-- you need a draw now?!
23:31:46  <Samu> the window refreshes itself when i type that into the console, it's refreshed
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23:32:48  <ST2> now I understand why you had a tt-forums account banned - I'm annoying but you, for sure, take the cake!!
23:39:06  <Samu> i've read back, yes is the answer
23:39:38  *** ConductorCat [] has joined #openttd
23:40:54  <Samu> 	AddSetting({name = "log_level", description = "The amount of AI messages to display in the AI log.  Higher=More messages", easy_value = 2, medium_value = 2, hard_value = 2, custom_value = 2, min_value = 1, max_value = 3, flags = CONFIG_INGAME | CONFIG_DEVELOPER });
23:41:22  <Samu> 'flags = (bla) | CONFIG_DEVELOPER' - this hides it
23:41:39  <Samu> this setting is first before the other with flags = 0
23:42:23  <Samu> if gui.ai_developer_tools is 0, this setting is hidden from the parameters window
23:42:37  <Samu> if gui._ai_developer_tools is 1, it is shown
23:42:41  <Samu> meh typo
23:42:45  <Samu> but u get the point
23:43:41  <Samu> the other Ais that use CONFIG_DEVELOPER have these settings past the other settings that don't use this flag
23:44:22  <Samu> they will never trigger the iterator bug
23:45:16  <Samu> it should iterate over all the visible settings to apply the value to the correct parameter
23:46:09  <Samu> if settings 1 2 3 4 5 are visible, and 6 7 8 are hidden, the iterator goes 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8, but since i click on row 5, a visible setting, the iterator still applies the value correctly to setting 5
23:46:31  <Samu> in the case of syntrans
23:46:45  <Samu> settings 1 3 are visible, 2 is hidden
23:48:21  <Samu> it takes the row which i click as the setting number that I'm chaning
23:48:35  <Samu> and since 2 is hidden, the row that i click is 2
23:48:48  <Samu> setting 2 is log_level, it applies the vale to it
23:48:52  <Samu> value*
23:49:12  <Samu> I insist, the bug is in ai_gui.cpp, not on info.nut
23:50:50  <Samu> setting 3 is drawn on row 2, because setting 2 is hidden, ... hmm yeah
23:51:47  <Samu> the only thing that could be wrong on info.nut was flags = 0, but 0 is the same as saying CONFIG_NONE
23:52:00  <Samu> so, it's fine, I see nothing wrong in there

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