Log for #openttd on 20th June 2016:
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00:49:49  <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: you can't stop time, but you can stop the introduction of new vehicles
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04:28:33  <tipsyTina> Random question : do any of y'all play with bots offline? If so, which ones?
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07:53:16  <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: Oh, how?
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08:33:25  <Wolf01> moin
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09:14:53  <ShrewdSpirit> Hi. How can I build a train platform with 14 length or even longer? It says station too spread out but I've seen others do this but don't know how
09:16:08  <argoneus> you need to change station spread in advanced settings
09:16:16  <argoneus> @ ShrewdSpirit
09:17:38  <ShrewdSpirit> Aha, thank you so much \o/
09:19:37  <ShrewdSpirit> 30 tiles will be a veeery long train xD
09:20:16  <ShrewdSpirit> But does this setting affect performance or something?
09:22:39  <Alkel_U3> it says in the station spread setting details that it does
09:23:22  <Alkel_U3> although I personaly use 22 and don't think I've run into issues due to that
09:24:16  <NGC3982> I have only encountered performance issues with station spread on >2048^2 maps with massive amounts of operative stations.
09:24:36  <NGC3982> As long as you are playing on a moderately new computer, don't think too much about it.
09:25:58  <ShrewdSpirit> Hmm, I see. So I wont worry about it cuz my map is not that huge ;) Thank you for the information
09:28:13  <ShrewdSpirit> BTW do multiple train engines increase the power/speed of train?
09:29:19  <ShrewdSpirit> Oh wait, it does :o
09:30:00  <Taede> max speed is the lowest of max speeds of any engine (or wagon if wagon speed limits are enabled) in the train
09:30:38  <Taede> wether or not it can reach this speed depends on how much power and weight the total train has
09:33:58  <ShrewdSpirit> So more power the train has, it will have more speed (without any limitation)?
09:35:53  <NGC3982> A train still has a max speed.
09:36:08  <NGC3982> As in reality, power and weight dictate how fast it get's there.
09:36:14  <Alkel_U3> Max speed of slowest engine applies, power of the engines adds up. If you have a weak engine pulling 30tile freight train uphill, it will likely not reach it's top speed. Adding more power to help áccelerate will get it closer to the top speed faster
09:36:53  <Flygon> I've had to build 50-60 tile long trains
09:37:01  <Flygon> I think the game caps @ 64.
09:37:07  <Alkel_U3> also you want to keep your eye on max tractive effort, especially on hilly service
09:37:16  <Flygon>
09:37:37  <Alkel_U3> nice :-)
09:38:10  <Alkel_U3> of course that bit about max T.E. applies only with realistic acceleration model, btw
09:38:58  <ShrewdSpirit> Aha, so a train won't go more than its top speed but power helps reaching that speed faster. I get it :D Well, I make my maps extremely smooth, so I don't have that much hills to worry about ;)
09:39:23  <ShrewdSpirit> Wow Flygon :O That's really long .-.
09:39:32  <Flygon> I justified the Big Boy
09:39:39  <Flygon> All because of the Iceland map and default industries being...
09:39:40  <Flygon> derp
09:39:45  <Flygon> The map had only one Oil Refinery
09:40:18  <Alkel_U3> that was without freight weight multiplicator, I assume?
09:41:09  <Flygon> I think it was at 2x?... I forgot
09:41:30  <Flygon> The Big Boy is an utter MONSTER tho
09:41:37  <Flygon> No other locomotive like it in the 2CC set
09:42:03  <Flygon> That isn't Electric. But the electrics either lack the top speed or the tractive effort.
09:42:29  <Alkel_U3> I used to play with 5×, now 3×. Especially back then with the 5×, that was a bit difficult :-)
09:42:32  <Flygon> ...BBs are bloody expensive, though
09:42:34  * Flygon nod
09:42:41  <Flygon> Yeah, anything over 3x makes the Steam Era, frankly
09:42:42  <Flygon> Impossible
09:43:41  <Alkel_U3> not really, you just have to really follow the terrain and avoid any inclines on most connections
09:44:16  <Alkel_U3> and don't count on the trains being too fast when loaded :-)
09:48:49  <ShrewdSpirit> How many seconds a month takes in game?
09:53:05  <Flygon> Alkel_U3: Of course
09:53:12  <Flygon> But gradients that'd be smooth af irl
09:53:19  <Flygon> Can become prohibitive in OpenTTD
09:53:34  <Flygon> Due to how sharp the distances between heights are
09:53:48  <Flygon> Granted, this's an issue integral to how the OTTD engine works
09:54:01  <Alkel_U3> yeah. Fortunately, it can be also set. I play with 3% nowadays, previously5 or 6%
09:54:08  * Flygon nod
09:55:27  <Alkel_U3> I like RRT series in this regard, but the gui didn't really allow any terraforming, except with an ocasional hack with bilding adjacent tracks which could as much as level a mountain
09:55:51  <Alkel_U3> ShrewdSpirit: IIRC one day is approximately 2 sec
09:57:30  <ShrewdSpirit> So it takes about 1 day to finish the game (starting from 1950) :o
09:57:38  <Alkel_U3> yeah
09:58:38  <Alkel_U3> but, finishing the game... I regard the game as finished when it's no longer interesting to me. Might be sooner or later :-)
09:59:00  <Alkel_U3> the year 2050 is too arbitrary
09:59:30  <Flygon> I finish the same point
09:59:35  <Flygon> Usually by the 60s...
09:59:41  <Flygon> Needs more competititon from other players
09:59:43  <Flygon> And timepatch
09:59:44  <Flygon> :U
09:59:57  <Flygon> Time goes too faaaat
09:59:59  <Flygon> faaaast
10:00:10  <Alkel_U3> yeah, I have daylength on a server now
10:00:16  <Flygon> I feel unsatisfied if I don't have all the branchlines built before suddenly Shinkansen :D
10:01:07  <Alkel_U3> yeah, if you work on a megaproject you might miss out on a generation of vehicles :-)
10:04:00  <Alkel_U3> Factorio in a week! \o/
10:04:08  * NGC3982 looks into Factorio.
10:04:25  <NGC3982> Oh, i know that one.
10:06:08  <NGC3982> A web site offering a demo version in an on-site exe file.
10:06:20  <NGC3982> Sadly, that's rare.
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11:44:18  <Wolf01> Alkel_U3, hype intensifies more
11:44:37  <stefino_cz> hey here anybody who can help me with nml?
11:46:14  <Wolf01> no clue
11:46:50  <Wolf01> maybe in the evening you'll find more people
11:47:25  <stefino_cz> okey, I'll try it later :)
11:47:29  <stefino_cz> thx
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11:55:38  <Alkel_U3> I can't afford hype at that date, though. I'll be completely away from PC from next Thursday till 10th of July :-)
11:57:10  <V453000> stefino_cz: just ask a question, don't ask "can someone help me" :)
11:57:53  <stefino_cz> yes sir :D
11:59:02  <stefino_cz>  Is there any way how to put my 32bit extra zoom graphic into this trafficlights patch? 3D model was finished but I have no idea how to write a nml code . Original nfo seems quite siple - only number of sprites with dimensions, offsets and position of sprites. Any idea if it is possible or not? Thanks
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12:53:19  <Samu> TracAI is struggling with train jams
12:53:24  <Samu> he really tries
12:54:19  <Samu> he detects jams, tries to act accordingly, but... it temporary fixes it, it's prone to happen again. His profit graph is up and down from time to time
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13:02:57  <Flygon> Samu: You make it sound like he's Bipolar
13:03:15  <Samu> he seems to be doing this: too much cargo at station? add more trains. trains without profit? sell.
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13:03:50  <Samu> im still wondering if he really got a jam detection mechanism
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13:04:33  <Samu> can't find a jam line in the log
13:04:40  <Samu> only unprofitable trains
13:05:44  <Samu> i just saw a train crash from NoCAB, now that's something I've never seen before, coming from an AI
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13:07:17  <Flygon> What
13:07:20  <Flygon> Seriously?
13:07:24  <Samu> yes
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13:11:09  <Samu> and again
13:11:14  <Samu> ok i'm posting screenshot
13:11:46  <Samu> - top left
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13:22:33  <Samu> I was more likely to see a crash from OTVI than NoCAB
13:22:39  <Samu> expecting to see*
13:22:55  <Samu> OTVI network is really terrible
13:23:18  <ShrewdSpirit> It seems that my trains forget to load cargo and they leave the station with no cargo loaded. It takes 3 years to arrive at the same station :(
13:23:48  <ShrewdSpirit> I've checked their schedule and they just skip loading cargo
13:24:12  <Samu> TracAI network is actually clean, he just masses too many trains on his routes
13:24:56  <Samu> from start to finish there's a train on every stop signal
13:25:35  <Samu> and it's not really a network in the sense that everything is connected to everything
13:26:05  <Samu> don't know the right word
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13:39:38  <Eddi|zuHause> do you have cargodist enabled?
13:41:25  <Eddi|zuHause> or are they maybe already full with stuff they cannot unload?
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13:55:49  <supermop_> yo
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14:00:28  <Samu> hi Wormnest
14:00:56  <Wormnest> hi Samu
14:01:08  <Samu> most servers are in 1990
14:01:29  <Samu> NoCAB has been acting strange, he got train crashes
14:01:40  <Samu> he still get that huge cpu bottleneck
14:01:52  <Samu> from time to time it unstucks
14:02:03  <Samu> but then the slowness comes back
14:02:42  <Samu> nocab server is now delayed by 19 years
14:03:08  <Wormnest> Well itÂŽs not for nothing IÂŽve been trying to fix some problems in nocab :)
14:03:30  <Samu> :) nice, i know, just wanted to share my observations since you're working on them
14:03:44  <Samu> he's still acting weird with the wrong closures
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14:04:42  <Samu> about the trains crashing, the log doesn't mention anythnig about it
14:04:51  <Samu> seems like he doesn't care if they crashed
14:05:02  <Samu> how did he make them crash however.. i dunno
14:05:13  <Wormnest> My guess is that he was reusing existing rail for a new connection
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14:05:33  <Wormnest> and then was adding some signals maybe at the wrong moment idk
14:07:12  <Samu> there must be something wrong in how he sees industry closing
14:07:13  <Wormnest> He indeed does not check vehicle crash events
14:07:31  <Samu> sometimes it says null has closed
14:07:42  <Samu> sometimes it says their name, and it did not really close
14:08:44  <Wormnest> null is normal if it tried to write the name but the industry was already completely removed by openttd
14:09:08  <Samu> everytime he says an industry has closed but it really didn't, he proceeds to removing the route
14:09:16  <Samu> and this is what hogs CPU
14:10:03  <Samu> until the trains are not removed, the server is horribly slow
14:10:19  <Samu> once they're sold, it goes back to normal cpu usage
14:10:23  <Wormnest> Well thatÂŽs why my version has added: if (!allVehiclesInDepot)
14:10:23  <Wormnest> 	AIController.Sleep(10);
14:10:37  <Samu> nice, :)
14:11:21  <Wormnest> But needs more improvements. It should not wait there for all trains to arrive in depot
14:11:39  <Wormnest> Instead it should check once in a while and in the meantime do other things
14:13:20  <Samu> not sure if you've been looking at TracAI code
14:13:32  <Samu> does he have jam detection mechanism of some sort?
14:13:57  <Samu> he keeps adding trains like nothing on the same routes
14:14:11  <Samu> it's way over the physical network capacity of that route
14:14:20  <Samu> can't move
14:14:33  <Wormnest> No iÂŽm not famliar with its train code, just know itÂŽs derived from trains.
14:14:42  <Samu> ah, oki
14:14:56  <Samu> well then it maybe has jam detection
14:15:11  <Samu> he still manages to not crash anything, and sell some trains
14:15:27  <Samu> but it's temporary fix, he then keeps adding back more trains, going back to the same problem
14:16:27  <Wormnest> Probably no detection then he just sees trains with low profits and sells them
14:18:29  <Samu> wormai seems to be doing great
14:18:33  <Samu> trains also doing great
14:18:37  <Samu> trAIns*
14:18:58  <Samu> simpleAI also doing great, but there's some recurring stalls from time to time
14:19:16  <Samu> wormai also has them, but it's not as common as simpleai
14:19:56  <supermop_> hmm should not have built these airports so soon
14:20:37  <Samu> and the strangest one, OtviAI, i really don't know what to say of him
14:20:50  <Samu> bad networking
14:20:52  <Wormnest> stalls might be because of pathfinding
14:20:59  <Samu> trains wait too much at signals
14:21:16  <Samu> weirdest network i've ever seen
14:21:21  <Samu> it's sub-optimal
14:22:11  <Samu> then there's trains with no orders, removed stations, with tracks staying behind
14:22:18  <Samu> it's quite bad, but he's making a profit
14:24:35  <Samu> otviai also has these weird stalls from time to time
14:24:44  <Wormnest> nocab also leaves the tracks but removes stations
14:25:07  <Samu> but otviai server isn't actually delayed by too much, only 1 year behind fastest server
14:25:07  <Wormnest> It may be difficult to figure out what can be deleted because tracks can be reused by other connections
14:25:21  <peter1138> heh heh heh
14:27:22  <Samu> fastest server is SynTrans, but he only made 3 trains, seems to be doign nothing ever since
14:28:28  <Wormnest> ThatÂŽs all he over does
14:28:44  <Wormnest> Makes 3 trains at the start and then never looks at them again I think
14:29:06  <Samu> ah, that's the one that only uses them for early money
14:29:11  <Samu> I see
14:29:33  <Samu> Trans doesn't build any train
14:30:17  <Samu> he's loan management, I'd say, it's good, we'll see if it reaches 2051 without bankrupting
14:30:21  <Samu> his*
14:31:20  <Samu> profits, trAIns leads indisputably
14:31:31  <Samu> WormAI is 2nd, with half the profit
14:31:35  <stefino_cz> Hey guys. Is there any way how to put my 32bit extra zoom graphic into this trafficlights patch? 3D model was finished but I have no idea how to write a nml code. Original nfo seems quite siple - only number of sprites with dimensions, offsets and position of sprites. Any idea if it is possible or not?
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14:32:23  <Samu> ops
14:32:38  <Samu> NoCAB is 3rd in profit, even with 19 years delay
14:33:12  <Samu> SimpleAI is 4th, TracAI is 5th, OtviAI is 6th, SynTrans is 7th, Trans without trains is 8th
14:37:11  <Alberth> stefino_cz: continue to use original nfo?
14:37:39  <Alberth> or rather, adapt for 32bpp, I guess
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15:00:43  <Samu> dbg: [script] [0] [I] INFO: Industry: Hedinghall Farm removed from the world! dbg: [script] [0] [W] WARNING: Demolishing connection from Hedinghall Farm to Ketston Food Processing Plant
15:00:47  <Samu> he got that one right!
15:00:56  <Samu> farm really is gone
15:01:17  <Wormnest> nice :)
15:01:47  <Samu> he's selling wheet trains, my massacring cpu usage, heh, at least I know what's going on
15:02:26  <stefino_cz> Alberth: I have Idea to use original NFO but it is for 8bit sprites and in normal zoom...and I need to write code for 32bit and extra zoom...
15:03:12  <Alberth> yep, and nfo should allow that
15:03:29  <Alberth> ie you can't express anything in NML that's not in nfo
15:03:45  <Samu> wheat*
15:04:02  <Wormnest> I think I fixed the saving/loading for nocab.
15:04:49  <Wormnest> Just started a 4k square map to see if it will stay within the limit if it nears 5000 trains
15:05:04  <Samu> woah, awesome job!
15:05:05  <Wormnest> Will probably take forever lol
15:06:20  <Samu> i remember nocab couldn't start on 4kx4k map
15:06:41  <Samu> the garbage collector thing reaches it's capacity and crashes openttd
15:06:52  <Samu> he could start on 2kx4k
15:07:10  <Wormnest> I already fixed that part earlier
15:07:15  <Samu> oh, oki nice
15:08:34  <stefino_cz> @Alberth: I'm a little bit lost :D I'm begginer in code writing . And if I understand...I have to edit nfo?
15:09:22  <Alberth> stefino_cz: your first remark was that nfo looked easier than nml
15:09:48  <Alberth> I don't understand either, so don't ask me :)
15:10:19  <Alberth> but if you want to change it to support 32bpp, you have to do that either in nfo or in nml
15:11:49  <stefino_cz> no no, I wanna to say that NFO is almost a lot of numbers and other "unlogic"signs but in this NFO is only this
15:11:51  <stefino_cz>
15:12:17  <stefino_cz> so that it looks simple...only sprite's descrtiption
15:12:28  <Alberth> yep, looks like nfo :p
15:14:02  <Alberth> and you're correct, nfo is just numbers without structure
15:14:26  <stefino_cz> yes :D and I need to write new nml what will encode the same grf but in 32bit with extra zoom
15:15:30  <stefino_cz> cause I have no idea how to edit this nfo into correct  form
15:19:12  <Alberth> ok, writing nml may or may not work, I don't know what nml adds by itself, and what the patch needs/requires
15:19:42  <stefino_cz> if exista any process how to get this new graphic into the game. There is no way to encode new nml cause trfficlights are made by patch  (quite high lvl for me)
15:20:57  <stefino_cz> so it will be very hard or impossible ?
15:21:13  <Alberth> yes :p
15:21:25  <Alberth> really, no idea
15:21:38  <Alberth> in the end the solution is likely to be simple
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15:23:09  <Alberth> you may want to try checking out nfo, since it's just sprites as you say, it may be simple to find out
15:24:26  <Samu> question, what is the advertisement to master server interval time?
15:25:01  <Samu> how often does this occur?
15:25:29  <Samu> i can calculate the time nocab stalls for, by counting the number of "advertising to master server" messages
15:25:35  <stefino_cz> I think (logic) that I need to define each sprite only but have no idea which commad use for it (in nml)
15:25:54  <stefino_cz> I'll try to find some more...but thx for information :)
15:26:28  <Samu> i cound 8 "advertisings"
15:26:31  <Samu> count*
15:28:01  <Alberth> stefino_cz:  is the way to define a real sprite
15:30:29  <Samu> i found it static const uint32 ADVERTISE_NORMAL_INTERVAL = 15 * 60 * 1000; ///< interval between advertising in ms (15 minutes)
15:33:24  <Samu> 15*8 = 120 minutes?
15:33:31  <Samu> gee....
15:33:49  <Samu> it's gonna take forever to reach 2051
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15:37:56  <Samu> i got time, but damn, this is gonna take days to finish
15:46:35  <stefino_cz> Alberth: I read about real sprites  - you think that I need only that table?
15:46:54  <Alberth> I have truly no idea
15:47:12  <Alberth> a grfid seems another minimal thing that you need
15:47:22  <Alberth> but otherwise....  absolutely clueless
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15:47:29  <Alberth> but no harm in trying :)
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15:59:14  <Samu> 93 trains that go to a 2 platform station
15:59:19  <Samu> TracAI :)
15:59:48  <Samu> i just clicked on a train depot...
15:59:51  <Samu> omg
16:01:07  <Samu> it's worse than i thought
16:01:07  <Alberth> don't do that :p
16:01:39  <stefino_cz>
16:01:54  <stefino_cz> it makes grf but empty :D
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16:06:27  <Alberth> pseudo-smart, and sees you're not using the graphics, I think
16:07:51  <stefino_cz> not using graphic? need to write graphic path into table?
16:08:08  <stefino_cz> [(left_x, upper_y, width, height, )offset_x, offset_y(, flags)(, filename)(, mask)] - filename?
16:08:54  <Alberth> no, I mean you define graphics, but it's not attached to eg a vehicle, or an industry or so
16:09:07  <Alberth> ie not used -> can be removed safely
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16:17:37  <Samu> monorail is out -
16:19:06  <Alberth> stefino_cz:  assuming that's the case, nml is going to be pain, unless you want to extend nml itself :p
16:19:46  <Alberth> so perhaps nfo is less complicated after all, it would be this page I think, but euhm, not sure at all
16:21:13  <stefino_cz> okey, I'll try it :) thanks :)
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16:46:21  <Samu> WormAI is catching up to trAIns, but it's probably temporary
16:46:39  <Samu> trAIns is in the middle of railway to monorail upgrade
16:46:59  <Samu> he really commits suicide while doing so
16:59:53  <Samu> train crash for nocab
17:00:16  <stefino_cz>
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17:00:48  <stefino_cz> error: insufficient meta-data while reading sprite 2
17:01:04  <stefino_cz> any idea? what could be wrong?
17:02:36  <Alberth> the amount of meta data, clearly :p
17:02:38  <Samu> Wormnest: does NoCAB remove block signals in code? or does he force bypass signal?
17:03:29  <Samu> the trains that crashed were relatively recently built
17:03:40  <Samu> about 6 months later they crash
17:03:54  <Alberth> stefino_cz: 32bpp real sprites takes 2 sprites ?
17:03:57  <Samu> maybe more, about 9 months
17:04:07  <stefino_cz> Alberth : XD and what the meta data are?
17:04:11  <stefino_cz> 2?
17:04:44  <Alberth> first number is the sprite numbers
17:04:48  <Alberth> *number
17:05:39  <stefino_cz> yeah...sprite number...not number of sprites
17:05:50  <Alberth> so if you omit that, like lines 6+7, it's one 'sprite' for the grf (one instruction, as 'sprite' means 'instruction' in newgrf world)
17:06:57  <Samu> hmm NoCAB has quite a network jam
17:06:58  <Wormnest> Samu: IÂŽve never really looked at the signal placement of nocab but IÂŽve seen errors in where it places signals
17:07:04  <Alberth> -143-150   looks suspicious too, I don't think nfo can do computations
17:07:13  <Wormnest> besdes that it only uses one way tracks
17:07:13  <Alberth> or at least not infix
17:07:21  <Wormnest> *besides
17:07:22  <Alberth> you could try prefix :p
17:07:42  <Samu> hmm version 499 i see block signals
17:07:45  <stefino_cz> -143 -150 are offsets
17:08:00  <Alberth> missing space then?
17:08:15  <Alberth> line 7 has no space between them
17:09:33  <stefino_cz> yeah...fixed...but problem still here
17:09:48  <Alberth> tried giving each line a sprite number?
17:09:49  <Samu> query tile says: Railway track with block signals
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17:10:13  <Alberth> or at least for test, the first few
17:10:18  <Alberth> check if that helps
17:10:54  <stefino_cz> ok, I'll try it
17:11:00  <Wormnest> I didnÂŽt say it didnÂŽt use block signals :)
17:11:47  <Samu> NoCAB is in a very difficult situation from what I see now
17:11:59  <Samu> he got the right corner of the map completely jammed
17:13:20  <Samu> i thought tracAI was bad, but nocab is bad in an order of magnitude much higer
17:16:51  <Wormnest> Well at least itÂŽs good at something then :p
17:17:42  <Samu> seems like eveything is connected
17:18:53  <stefino_cz> looks that is problem with png file
17:20:33  <Alberth> hmm, makes sense to call that "meta data"
17:21:12  <Alberth> 8bpp png?
17:21:46  <stefino_cz> 8bpp are 8bpp and 32 are 32
17:22:10  <Alberth> ah, ok, some ms programs think they can sneakily change that
17:23:56  <Wormnest> Current test version of nocab used 4% of allowed saving time for 49 train routes
17:24:39  <Wormnest> Compared to an older development version used 91% and had to discard 32 of 54 routes
17:26:05  <Samu> it is starting to have an impact in profits NoCAB profits are starting to do down
17:27:23  <Wormnest> It may also have some old vehicles waiting in depot that it forgot about
17:27:54  <Samu> let me look at his list
17:28:01  <Samu> he got 3020 trains... hmm
17:30:15  <Samu> more than half of his trains have negative profit
17:30:42  <Samu> 1442 trains have a profit
17:31:36  <Samu> there are some old trains that are stuck in a jam, they're heading to depot but can't move
17:32:52  <Samu> too many unprofitable trains in depot trying to get out
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17:33:02  <Samu> can't get out because of jams
17:33:10  <Samu> there's a few unsold trains indeed
17:33:14  <Samu> stopped in depot
17:34:15  <Wormnest> ItÂŽs because of too long bridges/tunnels sometimes and also reuse of tracks for several busy lines
17:34:38  <Wormnest> I donÂŽt think it checks if a line is too busy for more trains
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17:37:19  <Samu> right corner of nocab
17:42:02  <stefino_cz> Alberth: nothink
17:42:39  <Wormnest> Yea IÂŽve seen similar problems in my own tests too
17:43:29  <Samu> TracAI at least, does several different networks
17:44:03  <Samu> i think TracAI author could fix it easily
17:44:36  <Samu> but NoCAB... ugh, hmmm i really don't know, he makes use of many different networks
17:45:26  <Samu> mixes part of routes with each other
17:45:41  <Samu> rail re-using
17:46:03  <Samu> will be tough to fix it, i bet
17:48:14  <Samu> TracAI uses one-way path-signals
17:48:25  <Samu> NoCAB uses block signals, one way too
17:49:59  <Samu> 410 trains have positive profit, out of 2223 for TracAI, the ratio is way worse for TracAI
17:51:33  <Alberth> stefino_cz:  :(   no ideas what to try now, I am afraid, perhaps post at the forum?
17:54:10  <stefino_cz> Alberth: I tried...but Išm afraid that I have so little experiences to invent somethink like that :/ 3D and sprites generaly are ok for me but encoding is bad
17:54:58  <stefino_cz>
17:55:18  <stefino_cz> this is it :) but only picture for now and maybe forever
17:57:43  <stefino_cz> Other graphics are quite easy cause there are tutorials or I only replacing base grf. But this trafficlights are different . It's patch and there is no other way than try to encode it...somehow >(
17:58:01  <Samu> looking at trAIns, he got a jam, a weird one, cus i see no reason why the trains don't move
17:59:51  <Samu> - why don't the trains move?
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18:03:20  <supermop_> yo
18:03:33  <andythenorth> lo
18:05:01  <Wolf01> andy... I did it...
18:05:16  <Wolf01> and not once... I purchased 2 of them XD
18:06:11  <Wormnest> 949 cant go further because 360 is in the block it wants to go through and its not waiting at a path signal
18:06:55  <Wormnest> and 360 wants to go to the block 949 is in
18:07:30  <andythenorth> Wolf01: good price eh? :P
18:07:46  <Wolf01> too good to miss the chance
18:08:01  <Wolf01> I spared almost 80€
18:09:07  <Samu> train 949 wants to go north actually
18:09:18  <Samu> wants to turn left
18:09:24  <Wolf01> even with the shipping fee it costs 30% less than here
18:09:41  <Wormnest> doesnÂŽt matter itÂŽs part of the same block
18:10:14  <Samu> they're blocking each other?
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18:10:21  <Wolf01> quak
18:11:12  <Samu> block signals are bad
18:11:16  <Samu> it's official
18:11:20  <Samu> :()
18:11:21  <stefino_cz> Alberth: Is here someone else who can help me with this problem?
18:12:36  <Alberth> I am sure everybody that actually reads the channel knows by now what you're trying to do, so the only thing you can do is wait
18:13:10  <frosch123> hoi
18:13:22  <Alberth> hola
18:13:27  <stefino_cz> okey okey :) thank's
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18:47:10  <andythenorth>
18:47:21  <andythenorth> I made livestock trucks a bit longer, because cows need space eh?
18:47:48  <andythenorth> and the refrigerated truck, because they have a lot of insulation and stuff, so they tend to be max permitted length
18:48:09  <andythenorth> or alternative rationale, just to add variety to graphics :P
18:51:34  <frosch123> the grid is quite regular
18:51:45  <frosch123> i would expect some more partitions
18:51:54  <frosch123> it looks like a single big room
18:52:03  <andythenorth> on the livestock trucks?
18:52:10  <frosch123> also, cows are not transported on two floors
18:52:18  <frosch123> so, either it carries chicken
18:52:22  <frosch123> or it is quite tall :p
18:52:23  <andythenorth> sheep!
18:56:56  <andythenorth> giraffes!
18:57:55  <andythenorth> regular grid = easy copy paste for all angles :P
18:57:59  <andythenorth> I should break it up a bit?
18:58:26  <frosch123> yeah, some of the veticals ones could be thicker
18:58:28  <andythenorth>
18:58:29  <frosch123> or something
19:00:07  <andythenorth> some this one is less uniform, just because of TTD lengths
19:00:11  <andythenorth> -some
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19:02:31  <Wolf01> andythenorth trucks!
19:09:49  <andythenorth> Wolf01: pretty awesome
19:10:33  <Wolf01> and how it placed the bricks... I can't even imagine how some pieces stay in place
19:10:42  <V453000> ._.
19:11:08  <Wolf01> V, hype.
19:11:23  <Wolf01> did you do your homework?
19:11:50  <andythenorth> Wolf01: do you think it’s non-playable? o_O
19:11:56  <andythenorth> swoosh it and bits fall off?
19:12:50  <V453000> Wolf01: hype as fuck, yeah, graphics are done for 0.13 :)
19:12:51  <Wolf01> if you go to the flickr page it says the trailer wheels barely roll
19:13:03  <V453000> already lost like 40 hours to 0.13 :D
19:13:23  <V453000> well I found like 10 bugs so it isn't lost :)
19:14:22  <Wolf01> did you made the UB more likely to understand they could be abused to block a lane?
19:14:40  <V453000> no changes there
19:15:57  <V453000> I understand your issue but it is not priority, at least definitely not right now
19:15:58  <Wolf01> and do you plan to add sidings to the "floating" belts? XD
19:16:10  <V453000> belts might get an overhaul at some point, but probably not for 0.14
19:19:10  <Wolf01> mmmh
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20:03:18  <Samu> Wormnest_: dbg: [script] [0] [I] INFO: Industry: Tonfield Printing Works removed from the world!
20:03:28  <Samu> it's actually the opposite, it was born
20:04:23  <Samu> New Printing works under construction near Tonfield! on the newspaper
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20:09:26  <Samu> some Printing Works was removed, but it was not Tonfields
20:09:45  <Samu> he's demolishing the connection  dbg: [script] [0] [W] WARNING: Demolishing connection from Flinfingford Forest to Tonfield Printing Works
20:11:50  <Samu> he's doing the right thing, but the industry is not Tonfield Printing Works. The trains he's removing are from that forest, yes, and go to a place near Little Chudingville, which no longer accepts wood, that's where it must have been the missing Printing Works
20:13:19  <Samu> There's a town named Tanfield and another named Tonfield
20:14:23  <Samu> Tanfield is closer to the place the missing Printing Works is. Tonfield, is way... far distant from that connection
20:14:51  <Samu> either way... there is a bug somewhere with NoCAB detecting the names of industries
20:15:16  <Samu> at least on 2.1.3, don't know if your version has the same problem
20:17:09  <Samu> still, given the location of Tanfield and Little Chudingville, that printing works wouldn't be Tanfields' anyway, but Little Chudingville
20:19:14  <Samu> trying to see if there's a trend in my findings, but apparently not
20:19:34  <Samu> oil refinery, then food processing plant, then printing works... hmmm
20:19:52  <Samu> affects non-primary industries at least
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20:21:52  <Samu> there was a farm that closed and he removed the connection, so... i guess there's really no relation
20:22:03  <Samu> tough to understand why this happens
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20:37:11  <Samu> most of the trains on the right corner of the map are being told to enter depots
20:37:19  <Samu> but they're all stuck in jams
20:38:15  <Samu> I see that block signals are part of the problem
20:39:57  <Samu> not sure if Path Signals would help
20:40:07  <Samu> that's way too many trains
20:40:28  <Samu> i dunno, something you may experiment with, Wormnest_ ?
20:42:08  <Wormnest_> Not sure if I wanna bother with that Samu. I already made some changes that may help a little
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20:42:58  <Wormnest_> About the open/close problem: in WorldEventManager it looks like the right functions are called for each
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20:55:18  <Wormnest_> Now that I think of it the wrong industry name may be because it may take a long time before nocab handles the close event
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20:56:01  <Wormnest_> In the meantime a new industry may have been created that gets assigned the same id as what the old industry that closed was using
21:00:49  <Samu> :)
21:01:05  <Samu> you're on to something, me I'm still trying to find clues
21:03:17  <Samu> i think nocab got stuck "forever" now
21:03:29  <Samu> he's attempting to demolish a connection where trains are stuck
21:03:59  <Samu> and the server is slow... year 1977
21:04:44  <Samu> if it stays this slow till 2051... then... maybe next week or so it finishes
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21:05:21  <Samu> i don't know if i have the patience
21:10:35  <Wormnest_> well trains are nocabÂŽs weakest part I think. Even in my fork trains still need more fixing
21:12:00  <Wormnest_> In my game started this afternoon in 1950 its now 1976
21:12:23  <Wormnest_> ThatÂŽs with my fixed nocab and an older version with less fixes
21:14:10  <Samu> :|
21:15:41  <Samu> i started all these servers at the same time
21:15:54  <Wormnest_> Ofcourse IÂŽm not using a server just singleplayer
21:16:17  <Wormnest_> but it is on a 4kx4k map
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21:17:35  <Samu> current year: Syntrans 2021, trAIns 2020, WormAI 2019, TracAI 2018, OtviAI 2018, Trans 2016, SimpleAI 2011, NoCAB 1977
21:17:58  <Samu> special note, Trans got nothing
21:18:04  <Samu> and yet his servers gets delayed
21:19:28  <Wormnest_> Must be trying to think how to get out of that situation lol
21:22:52  <Samu> there are 7 human companies on OtviAI server
21:23:20  <Samu> NoCAB is password protected so that it doesn't make any save
21:23:57  <Samu> there's 1 human company on SimpleAI server, and 1 on Trans server
21:24:03  <Samu> the others have no companies
21:24:08  <Samu> human*
21:26:21  <Samu> total CPU usage of these servers is about 68%, i saw it peaking at 85% some few times, there's still headroom
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21:44:42  <Samu> aww TracAI crashed
21:45:35  <Samu> server 4
21:46:27  <Samu> crashed 75 minutes ago
21:46:32  <Samu> 75-90
21:47:31  <Samu> checking if anyone else crashed
21:48:56  <Samu> SimpleAI crashed, too long to save
21:49:26  <Wormnest_> uhoh
21:49:36  <Samu> crashed 60-75 minutes ago
21:49:46  <Samu> the others are running, must check syntrans yet
21:51:11  <Samu> syntrans still running
21:51:42  <Samu> ok, just these 2
21:51:58  <Samu> SimpleAI, will restart without autosaving and password protected
21:52:13  <Samu> TracAI... not gonna restart, it's an error in the script
21:55:07  <Samu> 1st Dec 2009 seems to be the last time SimpleAI was alive
21:55:11  <Samu> let me check
21:56:52  <Samu> correct
21:57:03  <Samu> 1st Jan 2010 save doesn't have saved data
21:57:31  <Wormnest_> IÂŽve never seen SimpleAI crash but I usually have a lot lower vehicle limits
21:58:33  <Samu> TracAI was last alive on 1st Apr 2015
21:58:51  <Samu> 1st May 2015 it was already crashed
21:59:09  <Samu> ok, sending these saves
21:59:35  <Samu> WormAI is still going
22:00:08  <Wormnest_> I hope it doesnÂŽt take too long saving, train handling is based on SimpleAI
22:00:12  <Samu> the log says he's managing 864 connections
22:01:39  <Samu> WormAI got 1957 trains atm
22:02:22  <Wormnest_> Thats not too bad
22:06:13  <Samu> SimpleAI crashed with 1856 trains, but i don't know how many connections he has
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22:13:24  <Samu>
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22:26:35  <Samu> - TracAI
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23:25:52  <Wolf01> 'night
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