Log for #openttd on 14th July 2016:
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07:45:09  <Wolf01> o/
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11:13:00  <Samu> hi
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11:13:28  <Samu> 2037
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13:16:33  <Alberth> hi hi
13:16:36  <Wolf01> o/
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13:39:00  <supermop_> yo
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13:58:35  <Alberth> hi hi
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15:52:18  <Wolf01> oh god
15:55:49  <Eddi|zuHause> but that doesn't read like it's able to actually read in old cartriges
15:56:23  <Wolf01> I could live without it, I don't have old cartridges, never owned a NES
15:57:10  <Wolf01> but a cartridges slot would have been a good move
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17:01:29  <Samu> 2038
17:03:03  <frosch123> hoi
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18:11:57  <_johannes> Hello
18:12:37  <Alberth> o/
18:12:46  <_johannes> I'm still looking for testers: , anyone an idea how to attract more testers?
18:14:58  <Alberth> "linux" probably means nobody
18:15:52  <Alberth> but you could convert some games from the "saved games and screenshots" threads
18:16:47  <Alberth> not sure if posting the result there too is a good idea, perhaps ask the "owner" of the thread first :)
18:17:22  <Alberth> ie they may get upset if you disturb their pages of stories
18:17:36  <_johannes> :)
18:18:01  <_johannes> does the "Screenshots" subforum regularly contain saved games, or just images?
18:18:30  <Alberth> some people do post save games, not everybody though
18:18:58  <Alberth> you could also make a thread for your posts :)
18:19:31  <Alberth> although it may be a bit stretching the "screenshot" concept
18:20:13  <Alberth> lots of people play patchpack though, which makes your patch or linux version useless
18:20:56  <_johannes> what is patchpack?
18:21:13  <Alberth> openttd + loads of random patches
18:21:38  <_johannes> a binary distribution?
18:21:44  <Alberth>
18:21:48  <Alberth> yep
18:22:10  <Alberth>
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18:22:36  <Alberth>
18:22:48  <_johannes> ah I get the concept...
18:23:25  <_johannes> well then I guess the best is if I test a few of the uploaded maps, and if it works, start a merge request to the master?
18:23:30  <Alberth> those are the current active patchpacks, I think
18:24:50  <Alberth> your patch may work with them, perhaps, as you don't touch game code, which is where most patches are
18:25:26  <Alberth> but imho the screenshot forum is you biggest client base
18:26:03  <_johannes> ok, so I could make a thread where I post the resulting pdfs, considering them as "screenshots" ?
18:26:23  <Alberth> make a png instead :)
18:26:51  <Alberth> not sure what graphviz supports exactly
18:27:43  <Alberth> pdfs need pdf-readers and stuff
18:28:19  <_johannes> yes, I think png should work
18:28:44  <_johannes> any idea about where the largest maps are?
18:28:46  <Alberth> I think there even is a thread with such pictures
18:28:59  <Alberth> handmade, of course
18:29:46  <Alberth> savegames forum?  :)
18:30:07  <_johannes> yes, I mean, which of the hundreds of threads contain the largest maps? :D
18:30:10  <Alberth> don't think large maps are typically very interesting :)
18:30:56  <Alberth> don't know, I download the ones from Baldy Boss every now and then, and that's more than enough already :)
18:31:57  * V453000 is designing wagons
18:31:59  <_johannes> "Loong Island 2048x1024" that sounds good :D
18:32:02  <Alberth> just ask for people to point you to files?
18:32:12  <V453000> has 17 types so far
18:32:22  <Alberth> ha, 1/2 the map is sea?  :)
18:32:58  <Alberth> dedicated wagon for each type of cargo, V ?
18:33:17  <V453000> not exactly, there are variants for each cargo
18:33:31  <V453000> so for example coal can have 6 different wagons, rather randomized
18:33:35  <V453000> just to make trains look nice
18:33:40  <V453000> uniform wagons are boring
18:33:40  <Alberth> \o/
18:33:55  <V453000> but of course for example copper ore wagons will be the same, just recoloured, but again in 6 variants
18:34:22  <V453000> which is nice
18:34:39  <Alberth> it is indeed
18:35:26  <V453000> and it is the best way to do it, if you use recolour, too
18:35:41  <V453000> cause you only have 6 sets of sprites in grf filezise
18:35:44  <V453000> rest is done by code
18:36:09  <V453000> and I am even hoping to achieve some nice compatibility with original TTD graphics, by having similar palette colours
18:36:17  <V453000> but let's see about that, I don't rely on that much
18:38:19  <V453000> but I believe it can help
18:38:26  <Alberth> ha :)
18:38:57  <MonkeyDrone> hello people :D
18:39:00  <V453000> I even want to do some basic animations with colour mask recolouring
18:39:06  <V453000> that might get majorly insane
18:39:07  <MonkeyDrone> was just stalking your work V453000 :P
18:39:08  <Alberth> most people judge "32bpp" by the colours they see, rather than by the the underlying technology :)
18:39:17  <MonkeyDrone> glad to see love is still in the air, hehe
18:39:25  <V453000> hi MonkeyDrone , I didn't really publish anything openttd related in a long while :P
18:39:29  <MonkeyDrone> have you moved to Prague yet?
18:39:36  <V453000> yeah, since April
18:39:45  <MonkeyDrone> all settled in then?
18:39:55  <V453000> Alberth: what do you mean, that using 8bpp recolours = The Community Hate?
18:40:29  <V453000> MonkeyDrone: pretty much :) in fact this week I am on vacation at the countryside which leaves me with no factorio but all computer-time goes into new train set for openttd :)
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18:41:54  <MonkeyDrone> V453000, ooooo, why not go out and see the country side? :P
18:42:10  <V453000> that's what I do during non-computer-time :P
18:42:56  <MonkeyDrone> ah ok :P well as long as you ain't over-working yourself :P
18:43:02  <Alberth> V: I suspect that indeed; it looks like 8bpp -> it is 8bpp.  However, maybe they judge on size of the pixels rather than colours
18:43:52  <V453000> also fuck the nature
18:44:21  <V453000> I think only like 1% of people understands that 32bpp means colours, not extra zoom Alberth
18:44:31  <V453000> so if I have extra zoom they will still call it 8bpp
18:44:38  <MonkeyDrone> lol
18:44:50  <MonkeyDrone> and yes i agree nature can be fucked
18:44:53  <V453000> also, 32bpp recoloured by 8bpp mask still looks like 32bpp due to the shades, even though the hue looks 8bpp
18:44:59  <MonkeyDrone> but when you live in the desert and see sand 24/7
18:45:06  <MonkeyDrone> you do have a small longing to see green xD
18:45:12  <Alberth> not sure, detailed extra zoom and real 8bpp is rare
18:45:35  <V453000> slugs have 8bpp recolour masks :P
18:50:23  <frosch123> V453000: you should have given the wagons an odd length :p
18:50:39  <V453000> why is that? :)
18:50:56  <frosch123> now they have a distance of 7 tiles, but you can only position trainstops in distances of two
18:51:24  <frosch123> so i cannot add an engine to the train in the front without shifting all the loading bays :p
18:51:42  <V453000> ah you mean factorio
18:51:52  <V453000> yeah I noticed that as well frosch123
18:52:01  <V453000> it isn't my decision :P but yeah, it's done now
18:52:12  <V453000> I personally would allow train stops to be built anywhere instead
18:52:17  <V453000> I will suggest it now
18:53:09  <frosch123> did you think i play ottd? :p
18:53:18  <MonkeyDrone> well you are in openttd channel :P
18:53:47  <frosch123> MonkeyDrone: exactly, the place where you talk abuot anything but ottd
18:54:19  <MonkeyDrone> frosch123, don't you distract V453000 from his work on Openttd! I will go Liam neeson on your butt!
18:54:26  <MonkeyDrone> hehe
18:55:03  <V453000> I just created a ticket and I am back to wagons, don't you worry :P
18:55:37  <frosch123> MonkeyDrone: hmm, doesn't look like i have seen any of those movies
18:56:05  <MonkeyDrone> Taken, you should, entertaining definitely
18:56:19  <MonkeyDrone> what's happening with BRIX? :D
18:56:27  <frosch123> ah wait, i only looked ni the novice actor action till 89
19:00:14  <V453000> BRIX is waiting, I can't do that at the countryside as just opening the max scene takes like 666GB of ram
19:00:38  <V453000> the plan is to release BRIX and the new train set at the same time eventually
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19:03:09  <MonkeyDrone> sweeet, i shall wait as long as it takes :P
19:03:12  <V453000> although they won't be exactly compatible
19:03:20  <andythenorth> lo
19:03:29  <andythenorth> you are not compatible V453000
19:03:30  <V453000> BRIX has completely different graphical style from PART
19:03:38  <V453000> but fuctionally, sure
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19:05:04  <fjb> Moin
19:06:21  <frosch123> hoi
19:06:42  <Wolf01> o/
19:06:45  <V453000> sup andythenorth
19:06:47  <V453000> pixelz?
19:06:57  <andythenorth> maybe
19:07:06  <V453000> I want to do animations for 32bpp sprites with 8bpp masks using just code
19:07:14  <V453000> I don't want to imagine how horribly will I fail
19:07:46  <V453000> I imagine something similarly shitty as drawing water 8bpp water tiles
19:07:47  <fjb> Quak frosch123
19:09:48  <V453000> fun thing: I am no more using flatbed-hopper-tanker dividing, which makes it so much easier to draw unique, fitting wagons for each cargo
19:10:21  <V453000> I just have one ultimate wagon which si able to refit to anything, and sprites just nicely adapt
19:10:58  <V453000> so all kinds of shit like boxcars, car carriers, ... make sense without having to put them into one of the 3 classes
19:12:21  <V453000> honestly this system of NUTS is one of the less bright ideas
19:12:24  <frosch123> maybe the wagons should have alternating graphics with shredders and 3d printers
19:13:14  <V453000> hmf
19:13:29  <frosch123> or maybe the industries should do that :p
19:15:26  <V453000> why 3d printers though
19:15:33  <V453000> like industry producing shit?
19:16:04  <andythenorth> V453000: why not sack off the engines as well?
19:16:13  <andythenorth> just have universal, single-unit vehicles?
19:16:16  <andythenorth> one-piece flow
19:16:53  <V453000> what do you mean?
19:17:14  <andythenorth> just one type of vehicle: engine with cargo capacity
19:17:19  <andythenorth> I am serious
19:17:26  <andythenorth> always 8/8 long
19:17:33  <V453000> the point isn't making trains as retardedly simple as RVs :P
19:17:41  <V453000> point is giving options and variety
19:18:12  <andythenorth> one *type* not one model :)
19:18:22  <V453000> BUT, I can spoil that PART does only have 10 vehicles in 1 vehicle class, so all 10 of them are just upgrades of another over time
19:18:23  <frosch123> andythenorth: there is the czech train set
19:18:27  <andythenorth> you could still have different classes
19:18:29  <frosch123> "csd" or something
19:18:38  <V453000> csd is majorly dogshet
19:18:50  <frosch123> it does all the realism shit like only real consists
19:19:24  <frosch123> but instead of a puzzle game, all vehicles are articulated engines with all the wagons in one composition
19:19:55  <andythenorth> nice idea
19:19:59  <V453000> I didn't know it took shit that far frosch123 :D must be some newer version
19:20:10  <V453000> but that's fucking terrible :D
19:20:17  <frosch123> nah, it's from 2008 or so
19:20:35  <frosch123> i used it to test articulated vehicles in 0.6, because it was so weird
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19:26:24  <V453000> I don't remember seeing that
19:26:25  <V453000> weird
19:26:31  <V453000> are you sure it is csd bullshit?
19:27:53  <MonkeyDrone> how do i get on_server_connect.scr to execute on a dedicated server? do i need to enable something in the openttd.cfg file?
19:29:45  <andythenorth> $someone should draw some cargos for Road Hog
19:31:33  <V453000> I vote andythenorth does i
19:31:34  <V453000> t
19:32:12  <andythenorth> lame
19:32:16  <andythenorth> this is not a referendum
19:32:25  <andythenorth> the winner is the one who sends me cargos
19:33:22  <fjb> Referendums may have an unexpected out coming.
19:34:29  <andythenorth> I am pretty good at predicting them so far
19:34:39  <andythenorth> I am 100% correct so far
19:38:02  <V453000> XD
19:38:50  <frosch123> <- maybe i misremembered the amount
19:38:57  <frosch123> but those 3 things are single units
19:39:01  <frosch123> i get the dmus
19:39:26  <frosch123> but i have no idea where to attach that 2nd-class-double-deck-coach(local traffic) to
19:40:24  <Eddi|zuHause> well, the double decker wagons did come in sets of 2 or 4
19:41:56  <Eddi|zuHause> i probably put them in CETS this way as well
19:42:57  <V453000> ah this bullshit
19:43:06  <V453000> yeah I never used the pax wagons because they were WTF lengths
19:43:32  <V453000> Eddi|zuHause still believes CETS will ever be drawn?
19:43:47  <Eddi|zuHause> not really thinking about it...
19:44:05  * andythenorth believes in Santa Claus
19:45:22  * andythenorth believes in making another ship set
19:45:27  <andythenorth> 3rd time’s the charm?
19:46:28  <V453000> andythenorth: ships are just shit in openttd and there isn't much to fix that, sorry :P
19:46:38  <andythenorth> nice pictures
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19:49:08  <Wolf01> I'm a bit bored :(
19:49:41  <andythenorth> standard
19:50:26  <andythenorth> code something? o_O
19:50:35  <Wolf01> and I'll be alone with my poor blind cat for 2 weeks
19:50:39  <Alkel_U3> oh, I remember the discussion on the CSD set wagon sizes on Tycoonez - I think they were upset that George's Long Vehicle set's buses dwarfed the trains :-)
19:51:18  <Wolf01> I would like to code something, but all what comes to my mind is too long or too much for a single person
19:51:58  <Wolf01> at least for a single person like me, if I was Notch maybe it would have been easy
19:52:21  <Alkel_U3> Bored? Play Dwarf Fortress.
19:52:32  <Wolf01> no, I'll commit suicide
19:52:44  <Alkel_U3> close enough
19:53:17  <Wolf01> I'm waiting for the end of the season on diablo 3, just to tidy up the stash
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19:53:41  <Wolf01> for the lego porsche I must wait 'til august
19:54:04  <Wolf01> for the factorio rocket silo I must wait the research and the construction
19:55:00  <Eddi|zuHause> i want to make peace with portugal and spain but i have shitty warscore despite occupying the main land
19:55:35  <Wolf01> did you try to send some of you daughters for them to marry?
19:59:00  <Eddi|zuHause> no, i already have 30-ish royal marriages among my vassals
20:00:01  <Wolf01> ehe, I know the struggle, I lost count of bastards while playing game of thrones legacy
20:00:22  <andythenorth> Wolf01: code NotRoadTypes
20:00:24  <andythenorth> easy :P
20:01:04  <andythenorth> I would start, but I have NFI how to use hg patch queues :(
20:02:23  <Wolf01> I use svn, one working copy per patch
20:03:01  <andythenorth> by choice, I’d just git repo somewhere
20:03:06  <andythenorth> bitbucket or github
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20:05:08  <Wolf01> I just need a kickstart, maybe if I'll get something working in the first 10 minutes I won't lose interest
20:05:43  <Alberth> download openttd, compile, run, it works !  :)
20:06:01  <Wolf01> heh
20:06:14  <andythenorth> :P
20:07:18  <andythenorth>
20:08:13  <andythenorth>
20:08:53  <Wolf01> nice docs, I should've done the same with daylength
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20:09:58  <andythenorth> hardest part of roadtypes is spec
20:10:07  <andythenorth> and patching 78 calls to RoadTypes is just boring
20:10:21  <andythenorth> the drawing code was quite interesting to patch
20:10:31  <andythenorth> I learnt stuff :P
20:11:26  <andythenorth> it’s quite nice to work through all the cases, like removing one type from a tile, without breaking things
20:11:39  <andythenorth> and learning how catenary is handled by rails
20:12:37  <Wolf01> :)
20:12:52  <Wolf01> I remember when I patched all those things for transparencies
20:13:46  <supermop> sudden torrential rain
20:14:03  <supermop> still no shirt to wear to shinto shrine
20:14:17  <supermop> how are trucks today andy?
20:14:33  <andythenorth> needing cargo :)
20:14:37  <andythenorth> otherwise nearly good
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20:15:07  <Wolf01> ok, now I must find a way to patch the code without doing it by hand
20:15:24  <Wolf01> just to see what you achieved so far
20:15:50  <Eddi|zuHause> "patch -p1 -i file.patch"?
20:16:02  <Wolf01> that seem to be a git patch
20:16:09  <Eddi|zuHause> hence -p1
20:16:25  <Eddi|zuHause> for svn patches use -p0
20:17:52  <andythenorth> iirc, I hard-coded tram with and without catenary
20:17:55  <andythenorth> using a flag
20:18:11  <andythenorth> which let me find all the places that NotRoadTypes needs to touch :)
20:19:29  <Wolf01> wow, it worked flawlessly
20:20:28  <andythenorth> if you try hard, you can trigger asserts in game I think :D
20:20:50  <Wolf01> compiling
20:21:15  <Wolf01> lots of errors
20:22:13  <Wolf01> I suddenly forgot how to write c++
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20:26:14  <Eddi|zuHause> also i suck at this game. my vassal Perm has a much bigger name than i do. (and that's the only metric that counts, apparently :p)
20:26:56  <andythenorth> Wolf01: I never learnt how to write c++
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20:27:43  <Wolf01> I used too much c# lately
20:28:32  <V453000> I have no clue how will I render this
20:28:53  <V453000> in total it is 30k sprites, but each of the sprites has a lik 7 different parts that need to be rendered separately
20:29:03  <V453000> I will probably easily get over 200 000 separate images
20:29:12  <V453000> not used in the grf, but in the workflow
20:31:28  <Eddi|zuHause> if you automate it, does it matter whether it's 2000 or 200000?
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20:32:09  <Wolf01> mmmh, this could be a good exercise, fixing 1962 errors
20:32:49  <Wolf01> mainly "int could not be used as RoadType"
20:33:01  <andythenorth> interesting
20:33:08  <andythenorth> clang doesn’t seem to care about those
20:33:43  <andythenorth> (compiles for me)
20:33:58  <Wolf01> vs is a bit picky on types :P
20:34:19  <Wolf01> RoadTypes rts = GetRoadTypes(tile) & ComplementRoadTypes(RoadTypeToRoadTypes(rt)); <- doesn't like these
20:34:20  <V453000> it depends how many types there are Eddi|zuHause
20:34:30  <V453000> ie, if I render a sequence of 200000, it is easy
20:34:38  <Wolf01> need to explicitly cast them
20:34:58  <V453000> but if I need to render 8 different rotations with 7 different masks with 50 different cargoes with 10 different variations, it gets trickier
20:35:03  <Wolf01> or I could override the & operator
20:35:16  <andythenorth> V453000: it’s just a list :)
20:35:43  <andythenorth> a list of lists
20:35:46  <V453000> and since blender is so awesome that it doesn't really support the most important rendering functions for batch rendering via command line, automating it is that much harder
20:35:46  <andythenorth> a list of lists of lists
20:35:51  <V453000> yeah kind of andythenorth
20:36:43  * andythenorth wonders whether to ship Road Hog beta again
20:36:51  <supermop> gamma?
20:37:00  <andythenorth> :P
20:37:10  <Hiddenfunstuff> I am god of hellfire!
20:38:13  <Wolf01> uhuh, this looks bad, ROAD_X    = ROAD_SW | ROAD_NE <- the espression must have a constant value
20:38:34  <andythenorth> Wolf01: spiders in the existing code :D
20:39:26  <andythenorth>
20:40:19  <Wolf01> ha!
20:43:27  <Wolf01> static inline bool HasRoadType(rt) { <- pfffffffff
20:43:54  <Wolf01> fixed 11 errors so far
20:44:04  <Wolf01> with 1 codechange
20:44:08  <andythenorth> we need a git repo :P
20:44:25  <andythenorth> Wolf01: fixed the errors with my test patch applied, or without? o_O
20:44:30  <Wolf01> with
20:44:50  <andythenorth> the actual patch is junk :)
20:44:58  <andythenorth> I don’t want you to lose your fixes :)
20:45:38  <Wolf01> I'll make a new patch ;)
20:47:38  <Wolf01> how did you manage to even start the game after compile?
20:48:26  <andythenorth> seemed to work :)
20:48:30  * andythenorth checks
20:49:06  <Wolf01> I found some enum values declared as X_Y_Z and used as X_Z_Y
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20:49:35  <andythenorth> it’s quite possible I’ve pasted the wrong patch
20:49:38  * andythenorth looking
20:50:09  <Wolf01> it could be, there are too many errors to even be able to run without asserting as soon as you click on the executable
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20:51:27  * andythenorth compiles a different patch
20:51:37  <andythenorth> to see if that works
20:53:21  <andythenorth>
20:53:54  <andythenorth> Wolf01: 😳 sorry
20:54:11  <Wolf01> np
20:55:33  <andythenorth> I think the first patch I pasted is a newer attempt to do things ‘properly’
20:55:40  <andythenorth> but I got stuck because it doesn’t compile
20:55:46  <andythenorth> I haven’t diffed between the two
20:55:51  <Wolf01> better now, only 21 errors
20:55:57  <andythenorth> the last one I pasted is the hacky test
20:56:09  <andythenorth> two types road / two types tram
20:57:17  <Wolf01> ok, only libraries related errors
20:57:25  <Wolf01> zlib.h and unicode
21:02:44  <Wolf01> ok, old
21:03:03  <Wolf01> maybe with the new version it will be happy
21:06:35  <Wolf01> I was sure I configured the libraries and the includes
21:07:05  <Wolf01> yeah, only the dmusic now
21:08:57  <Wolf01> oh, my bad, I reverted the entire solution, that's why
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21:10:48  <Wolf01> wtf, new errors each time I compile O_o
21:11:06  <ST2> just to keep you on your toes :P
21:11:29  <Wolf01> at least is not boring anymore
21:14:29  <Wolf01> unresolved external symbols for libpng, zlibstat, libfreetype... what did I miss? last time I compiled with no problems
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21:16:49  <glx> which compiler ?
21:17:35  <Wolf01> the standard one of vs140
21:18:17  <glx> hmm 140 is 2015 ?
21:18:21  <Wolf01> yes
21:18:31  <glx> try :)
21:19:48  <Wolf01> I remember about that, I don't know why I was still using the 5.1
21:20:20  <glx> because 6.0 is hidden
21:22:37  <Wolf01> I had them downloaded since when I switched to 2015 from 2013, but in the folder I only found the 5.1 ones, I don't know where I put the 6.0 ones and forgot about them
21:23:07  <Wolf01> btw, compiled
21:23:59  <ST2> thx +glx, I still use VS 2013 but someday... I'll need those too... and same issue as Wolf01: no idea to where I downloaded 6.0 last time xD
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21:25:19  <Wolf01> <supermop> sudden torrential rain <- here too
21:31:29  <Wolf01> btw, nice job andy
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22:04:52  <andythenorth> Wolf01: if you build road with catenary...
22:04:59  <andythenorth> you’ll see the things I didn’t try to finish :)
22:05:27  <Wolf01> you mean the road with those little road-icons?
22:05:39  <andythenorth> garbled sprites
22:05:58  <Wolf01> I might give a look to it
22:10:09  <andythenorth> if I was to start properly on this...
22:10:26  <andythenorth> the first thing would be to sort out the enum that holds the roadtypes
22:10:35  <andythenorth> and the map bits
22:11:39  <andythenorth> all things like ‘(HasBit(roadtypes, ROADTYPE_ROAD))’
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22:21:09  <Wolf01> 'night
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