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00:05:56 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po1-84-91-250-188.netvisao.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:22:35 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@y32.ip1.anvianet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:30:50 *** mindlesstux [~mindlesst@daedalus.mindlesstux.com] has joined #openttd 01:34:25 *** fjb_ [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 01:38:03 *** mindlesstux_ [~mindlesst@daedalus.mindlesstux.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:41:41 *** fjb__ [~frank@p4FF2E6C7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:52:50 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6A45C.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:54:21 *** fjb_ [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:58:41 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 04:06:15 *** ToneKnee_ [~quassel@host109-148-28-87.range109-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 04:08:11 *** ToneKnee [~quassel@host86-135-236-32.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:35:12 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd 05:58:35 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 06:04:09 <andythenorth> is cat 06:51:18 *** MonkeyDrone [~MonkDAce@80.88.255.39] has joined #openttd 06:56:47 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 06:57:18 *** NoShlomo [~NoShlomo@90.74.151.136] has joined #openttd 06:57:30 *** MonkeyDronez [~MonkDAce@80.88.255.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:24:18 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-157-231.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:05:44 <andythenorth> so 08:06:16 <andythenorth> I have crippled tram TE, because the values were very very high compared to equivalent trains 08:08:26 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18B4F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 08:08:34 <andythenorth> itâs still too high, probably at least double the RL value 08:10:54 <andythenorth> comparing equivalent trams and trains (similar HP and consist weight), the tram with twice the TE of the train takes 8 tiles to reach max speed (35mph) 08:11:04 <andythenorth> the train reaches 40mph in about 4 tiles 08:14:51 <Flygon_> If anything, this does show how screwey OpenTTD's physics model is 08:15:09 * andythenorth is looking for the code 08:15:23 <andythenorth> I donât mind screwy physics, just need to know what values to set 08:15:44 * andythenorth suspects thereâs some friction coefficient or something thatâs different 08:17:51 <andythenorth> friction coeff 15 for trains, 40 for trams 08:27:05 <Flygon_> Higher makes accelerating harder? 08:27:48 <Flygon_> It seems a bit odd, given even really weak Trams are really sprightly 08:28:16 <Flygon_> The W-Classes in Melbourne might seem weak by modern standards, but you can still trip over your passengers with the acceleration :P 08:30:42 <andythenorth> hmm 08:30:47 * andythenorth is doing it wrong 08:34:52 <andythenorth> to overcome rolling friction I need more HP, not TE? 08:34:56 <andythenorth> TE is about going up slopes 08:35:07 <Flygon_> Welllllll 08:35:16 <Flygon_> TE helps with acceleration 08:35:26 <Flygon_> But it is capped by horsepower 08:35:51 <Flygon_> A machine can have craptacular TE, but an infinite speed cap and moderate horsepower 08:36:03 <Flygon_> It will constantly keep accelerating, even if slowly, assuming OpenTTD physics 08:36:47 <Flygon_> If a machine has insanely high TE, infinite max speed, but crap horsepower, it hits a lower speed cap than the previous machine would 08:36:51 <Flygon_> With the same weight load 08:37:06 <Flygon_> I phrased that crappily 08:37:09 <Flygon_> Let's reword it 08:37:15 <Flygon_> TE is your acceleration 08:37:26 <Flygon_> But more HP allows for more powerful acceleration... ? 08:37:27 <Flygon_> Fuck 08:37:32 <Flygon_> Why didn't I take that physics class 08:37:39 <Flygon_> It all makes sense in my head :| 08:56:36 *** frosch123 [~frosch@00013ce7.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 09:12:04 *** MonkeyDrone [~MonkDAce@80.88.255.39] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:12:24 *** MonkeyDrone [~MonkDAce@80.88.255.39] has joined #openttd 09:13:58 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27623 trunk/config.lib (2016-07-24 11:13:51 +0200 ) 09:13:59 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r27616) [FS#6492]: Missed two version checks, and messed one up. 09:17:26 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-109-91-72-28.hsi12.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #openttd 09:25:49 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@y32.ip1.anvianet.fi] has joined #openttd 09:27:36 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it might very well be that train physics is simply calculated twice as often as tram physics, and that's why tram and train behave differently. 09:27:58 <Eddi|zuHause> also, for TE the weight of the front unit is relevant, not just consist weight 09:28:35 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4e30e2ba.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 09:38:02 <andythenorth> I can account for that by moving capacity or weight around 09:38:03 <andythenorth> somewhat 09:40:31 <andythenorth> for now I have simply increased tram HP :P 09:46:35 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 09:46:47 <Wolf01> o/ 09:49:19 <Eddi|zuHause> in any case, the max TE value as modelled by openttd describes the sliding friction, and limits the acceleration at low speeds. at higher speeds, HP is the only restriction to acceleration 09:49:57 <Eddi|zuHause> sliding friction is probably not the right word 09:50:17 <Eddi|zuHause> the point at wich the wheels start to slip 09:50:27 <Eddi|zuHause> instead of roll 09:50:43 <Wolf01> I always tought we used air drag... it's easy with cubes :> 09:50:54 <Wolf01> *thought 09:51:04 <Eddi|zuHause> there is also air drag 09:51:14 <Eddi|zuHause> but that is only relevant at high speeds 09:51:43 <Flygon_> I thought Air Drag, for the purposes of OpenTTD, only occoured in tunnels 09:52:04 <Eddi|zuHause> no 09:52:11 <Eddi|zuHause> it's just much higher in tunnels 09:53:27 <Flygon_> Oh O_o 09:56:25 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:58:54 <Wolf01> I've taken physics class, but I'm too lazy to make calculations, that's why I usually build one train and test it, if it doesn't work well (can't reach at least 95% of speed cap or takes ages to accelerate) then I'll add one or more engines 09:58:57 *** Taede [~T@neurotic.nurionis.co.uk] has left #openttd [Leaving] 10:01:23 <Wolf01> Usually I just convert KN to Kg if I'm not sure if the TE is enough for my consist, just to get a suggestion on how many engines it needs 10:02:26 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 10:02:29 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 10:02:31 <Wolf01> o/ 10:02:43 <Alberth> hi 10:03:20 <Alberth> oh, the morning has already finished 10:05:42 <Wolf01> And with convert I mean "multiply the TE by 100" 10:07:09 <Alberth> absolute TE is of interest? I just use "bigger is better" 10:08:16 <Wolf01> I think the TE in OTTD is a nice thing to have, but also enough confusing to whom doesn't understand these things, we should need a "your engines are able to move up to #Kg" 10:10:15 <Alberth> fair enough 10:10:16 <Wolf01> https://blog.xkcd.com/2015/05/13/new-book-thing-explainer/ <- 10:10:28 <Wolf01> like this 10:12:16 <Alberth> ha, yes :) 10:12:49 <Wolf01> mmmh, I need more home automation... "hey cortana, close windows and start the air cooler"... shuts down pc 10:12:49 <Alberth> all the model railway people will be sad though 10:13:53 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po1-84-91-250-188.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd 10:14:08 <Samu> 2041, 2015 10:14:08 <Alberth> haha :) I had a signature "Look ma, windows (on my computer) without Windows" for years :) 10:14:20 <MonkeyDrone> i enabled cortana 2 weeks ago 10:14:24 <MonkeyDrone> then i realized i don't have a mic... 10:14:27 <MonkeyDrone> gg 10:14:33 <Wolf01> +1 10:14:46 <MonkeyDrone> it's too late to stop cortana, she might as well collect whatever info is left to collect ;p 10:14:49 <Alberth> :D 10:15:30 <Samu> i got my hands on a celeron 1000 10:15:39 <Samu> 128 MB ram 10:15:42 <MonkeyDrone> oh gawd, celerons 10:15:52 <MonkeyDrone> had to use one long long time ago, it was slow even for that time 10:15:58 <Samu> 6 GB HDD 10:16:27 <Samu> didn't try openttd on it, i should perhaps 10:18:38 <Wolf01> I'm thinking about disabling the voice feature on my desktop and enable it on the phone 10:18:49 <Wolf01> I think is more useful there 10:19:02 <MonkeyDrone> Samu, lol, it won't work 10:19:12 <MonkeyDrone> Samu, but you could set it up to run as a router or something 10:19:24 <Samu> it doesn't have network 10:20:04 <Wolf01> I have a celeron 1000 as a server, running for at least 12 years 10:20:36 <Wolf01> I'll replace it with a SoC one day... 10:20:49 <Samu> it has a phone line connection thing 10:20:56 <Wolf01> called modem 10:20:57 <Samu> it's useless 10:21:00 <Samu> ya 10:21:23 <Samu> compaq presario something 10:21:37 <Wolf01> Mine too, I use it as a fax machine too 10:21:58 <Samu> compaq presario 12xl403 10:22:24 <Samu> can't find a picture of it on the internet :( 10:23:06 <MonkeyDrone> AOL still uses dialup 10:23:08 <MonkeyDrone> you can hook it up 10:23:10 <MonkeyDrone> hehe 10:23:15 <Samu> i thought the internet had everything 10:23:38 <MonkeyDrone> i'm sure it's out there somewhere, the internet is like a blackhole. You gotta go deep, not just the tip :P 10:30:12 <MonkeyDrone> hahaha shit, i just locked myself out of my own vps server 10:30:18 <MonkeyDrone> sigh*... 10:30:50 <Samu> http://www.nbprice.ru/catalog/notebooks/compaq-presario-12xl403-6.htm 10:30:52 <Samu> thx russia 10:31:38 <MonkeyDrone> lol 10:31:49 <MonkeyDrone> wow, that looks old school 10:31:57 <MonkeyDrone> you can kill someone with it 10:32:01 <MonkeyDrone> how heavy is it? 10:32:27 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 10:33:59 <Samu> not sure, a bit heavy 10:36:14 <Flygon_> That's not a laptop, that's a weapon 10:38:56 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 10:38:59 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 10:43:17 <Samu> 3.3 Kg 10:44:18 <Samu> i ran a few benchmarks on it 10:44:38 <Samu> it's the slowest thing I've tested 10:45:45 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:45:49 <Samu> superpi 1m - 189 seconds 10:47:00 <Samu> wPrime 32m - 215,931 seconds 10:49:01 <Samu> funny results from old hardware I got here 10:49:53 <Samu> Pentium 4 at 2.4 GHz is slower than Athlon XP 1800+ at 1533 MHz in superpi and wprime 10:51:52 <Samu> interesting results on Maxtor HDDs 10:52:51 <MonkeyDrone> 3.3kg, sounds liek a workout warmup machine ;p 10:53:09 <MonkeyDrone> the old athlons were more powerful than the pentiums iirc 10:53:13 <andythenorth> Alberth: model railway people I donât mind, itâs the accountants I worry about :P 10:53:14 <Samu> 200 GB and 250 GB ATA drives are faster at QD1 and QD4 than my 1 TB WD Blue 10:53:18 <MonkeyDrone> amd was king back then 10:53:23 <andythenorth> $someone is going to turn up and report a bug with my trams 10:53:31 <MonkeyDrone> the intel sabotaged the fuck out of amd , life was never the same ;p 10:53:35 <andythenorth> âtractive effort is much too highâ 10:53:35 <Samu> SATA 10:53:49 <Samu> who bought Maxtor? 10:53:53 <Samu> was it seagate? 10:53:59 <Alberth> add a disclaimer in the readme file :) 10:54:08 <MonkeyDrone> andythenorth, if your tram can deliver cookies and milk everyday at 7am to my doorstop. It has enough tractive effort! 10:54:59 <Alberth> or name it "high power" 10:55:27 <Alberth> "brutal" comes to mind, but that's more V style naming 10:56:25 <Alberth> "XP edition" (extra power) 10:56:40 <andythenorth> :P 10:58:46 <Samu> there's some odd stuff with athlons as well 10:59:01 <Samu> athlon xp 2000+ is slower in some tests in comparison with athlon xp 1800+ 10:59:57 <MonkeyDrone> were they hitting some limits in tech back at that time? 11:01:00 <Samu> i don't remember, i think memory speeds or latency was important for athlons 11:01:29 <Alberth> higher number sell better 11:01:33 <Samu> i know xp 2000+ and xp 1800+ wouldn't work on the same socket 11:01:50 <Samu> xp 2000 needed another motherboard 11:02:40 <Samu> xp 1800+ was my long standing gaming rig, of that I remember 11:02:51 <Samu> i used it for 11 years 11:03:10 <Samu> i had the 2000 and 2700 chip which i couldn't use :( 11:03:53 <Samu> xp 2700+ always crashed 11:04:19 <Samu> xp 2000+ was used on the mobo that was supposed to use the 2700 11:05:17 <Wolf01> http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/zblj/Trial/8x8RC/p1150590.jpg ha! monster :( 11:05:37 <Samu> think it was 2000 that would lock on windows, i remember, and the other would get a bsod 11:06:06 <Samu> it was a asrock mobo, and asrock was horribad at this time 11:06:13 *** fjb_ [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 11:06:42 <Samu> eventually i figured out why the 2700+ was crashing, it was the USB 11:07:05 <Samu> as long as i don't use the usb on the mobo, the system has been stable ever since 11:07:17 <Samu> but i only figured that out when i upgraded to a core i5 2500, too late 11:08:07 <Samu> couldn't even use a usb mouse or keyboard, t.t 11:15:36 <Wolf01> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bhp5i1EITxc uh oh... TT train breakdown irl 11:20:10 *** mescalito [~mescalito@195-183-191-90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:22:34 <Samu> SuperPI 1M Athlon XP 1800+: 71,609s 11:22:46 <Samu> SuperPI 1M Athlon XP 2000+: 75,890s 11:23:02 <Samu> keks 11:23:49 <Samu> SuperPI 1M Pentium 4 2.40 GHz: 82,338s 11:24:24 <Samu> SuperPI 1M Pentium 4 2.00 GHz: 93,174s 11:25:06 <Samu> SuperPI 1M Core i5-2500: 10,343s 11:25:19 <Wolf01> try on i5 470 um 11:26:35 <Samu> i thought i had the results of fx-8150 11:26:41 <Samu> must do them 11:29:41 *** mescalito [~mescalito@195-183-191-90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #openttd 11:32:22 <Samu> SuperPI 1M FX-8150: 22,141s 11:32:39 <Samu> rip AMD 11:35:34 <MonkeyDrone> nothing wrgon with using ps/2 mouse and keyboard back in those times ;p 11:36:31 <Samu> i don't have results for xp 2700+ :( 11:36:44 <Samu> don't have access to that system here 11:37:08 <andythenorth> cargo cargos cargos 11:37:12 <andythenorth> I have blue tarps 11:37:20 <andythenorth> used for ENSP, FMSP 11:37:27 <andythenorth> should I colour code them for different cargos? 11:37:30 <andythenorth> o_O 11:41:06 <Samu> wPrime 32M FX-8150: 10,085s 11:41:22 <Samu> wPrime 32M Core i5-2500: 11,294s 11:41:50 <Samu> wPrime 32M Athlon XP 2000+: 110,906s 11:42:09 <Samu> wPrime 32M Athlon XP 1800+: 121,359s 11:42:37 <Samu> wPrime 32M Pentium 4 2.40 GHz: 158,417s 11:42:49 <Samu> wPrime 32M Pentium 4 2.00 GHz: 188,211s 11:43:10 <Samu> wPrime 32M Celeron 1000 MHz: 215,931s 11:44:11 <Samu> this time around xp 2000 is faster than xp 1800 11:45:21 <Samu> Pentium 4 really looks odd 11:45:26 <Samu> was it really that bad? 11:46:37 <Samu> it didn't feel that slow, it seemed equivalent to the athlons 11:47:25 <Samu> at least they got SSE2 11:47:35 <Samu> athlon don't 11:59:50 <Wolf01> I don't know andy... it would be cool to distinguish them 12:01:49 <Samu> ah, here it is http://ark.intel.com/products/27305/Mobile-Intel-Celeron-Processor-1_00-GHz-256K-Cache-133-MHz-FSB 12:02:36 <Samu> Tualatin-256 12:02:38 <andythenorth> Wolf01: there are at least blue, red, and some kind of green colour that could be used 12:02:39 <Samu> codename 12:04:10 <Wolf01> I don't have any clue on which colour could fit which cargo 12:04:38 <Wolf01> I only know bright orange for utility vehicles :P 12:04:58 <andythenorth> :P 12:05:13 <andythenorth> I can just test now 12:05:18 <Wolf01> Meh... it's not really hot today, maybe 28-30°C, but there's a fucking mist! 12:05:44 <Samu> The Tualatin-based Pentium III had shown superior performance compared to the fastest Willamette-based Pentium 4, and even the Thunderbird-based Athlons 12:05:52 <Samu> now those pentium 4 results make more sense 12:05:56 <Samu> thx wikipedia 12:08:08 <andythenorth> hmm 12:08:17 <andythenorth> hax using a âTARPâ cargo label? 12:08:23 <andythenorth> or do it âproperlyâ :P 12:08:49 <Flygon_> Hell, Pentium IIIs were the basis for the Core series 12:08:55 <Flygon_> And thus the i series 12:09:01 <Flygon_> P4 was just... bad 12:09:03 *** Flygon_ is now known as Flygon 12:11:33 <Samu> I see, I was wondering why celeron at 1000 MHz was getting 215,931s, but pentium 4 at 2000 was getting 188,211s, not even half 12:16:37 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-157-231.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 12:20:14 <Flygon> I have zero idea why they ever bothered with P4 12:20:21 <Flygon> It was a trainwreck from the very beginning 12:20:42 <Flygon> And it was obvious to everyone that it was physically impossible to gigahertz your way out of speed inefficiencies 12:20:42 <sim-al2> The CPU? 12:20:47 <Flygon> Yeah 12:21:02 <sim-al2> Oh, but I guess they thought they could do it when they started 12:22:45 <andythenorth> hmm 12:22:53 <andythenorth> maybe for generic cargo I should use a 2CC tarp 12:23:02 <andythenorth> and player can choose colour :P 12:24:18 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6A45C.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 12:25:01 <Samu> they say it's 31ºC here, but my room is at 29,2ºC 12:27:44 <MonkeyDrone> room temps should belower 12:27:52 <MonkeyDrone> good insulation on the walls 12:27:55 <Samu> http://www.foreca.com/Portugal/Lagos 12:28:02 <MonkeyDrone> but don't worry, given time it will heat up ;p 12:28:23 <MonkeyDrone> andythenorth, it is always nice when players can chose colors :D 12:30:20 <Wolf01> If only it would be possible to set a different colour for each consist 12:30:24 <Wolf01> or group 12:30:48 <Wolf01> Just group would be enough 12:30:53 *** monkeydrone_ [uid158029@id-158029.ealing.irccloud.com] has joined #openttd 12:35:23 <andythenorth> 'patch for thatâ 12:35:51 <Wolf01> NotRoadTypes first 12:36:01 <andythenorth> yair 12:36:09 <andythenorth> shout when you have a patch to test 12:36:09 <andythenorth> :P 12:36:13 <andythenorth> or a repo 12:37:04 <andythenorth> grey gravel for unknown bulk cargos? 12:37:10 <andythenorth> or I have to stick a tarp over? 12:37:15 * andythenorth would rather not :P 12:51:16 <andythenorth> maybe someone could find all the bulk cargos that miss graphics in Road Hog? o_O 12:52:42 <andythenorth> known: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/road-hog/repository/entry/src/graphics_processor/graphics_constants.py#L23 12:53:54 <andythenorth> known cargo labels... https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/CargoTypes#Cargo_Labels 12:58:51 * andythenorth will go shopping, and hope some elves sort this out :P 12:58:55 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 13:17:58 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@89.136.141.100] has quit [] 13:21:13 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po1-84-91-250-188.netvisao.pt] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:26:38 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-157-231.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:34:09 <MonkeyDrone> hey guys, any idea on how to change a variable like distribution_pax on a running server in ottd? 13:38:01 <MonkeyDrone> figured it out 13:40:07 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po1-84-91-250-188.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd 13:40:18 <Samu> 2044, 2016 13:40:34 <Samu> 7 years to reach 2051 for otviai 13:49:36 *** ToneKnee_ [~quassel@host109-148-28-87.range109-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:50:10 *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@modemcable027.125-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 13:50:12 <drac_boy> hi 13:50:14 <drac_boy> been a while :) 13:51:03 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 13:51:38 <drac_boy> hi wormnest .. any good weather in netherland? 13:53:00 <Wormnest> hi drac_boy the weather isnÂŽt too bad here maybe a little bit too warm 13:53:31 <drac_boy> heh guess we two have it similar then .. I'm in east canada 13:55:06 <drac_boy> up to anything atm or just a lazy day? 13:55:06 <Wormnest> nice :) 13:55:50 <Wormnest> ehh ntm running another test run of nonocab to see if thereÂŽs any more problems I need to fix 13:55:53 <Rubidium> depends on how east in Canada you are, I guess ;) 13:55:59 <Alberth> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pfvknr8h5 <-- bulk cargoes for andythenorth 13:56:59 * Rubidium also wonders where "east Canada" starts 14:00:53 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 14:00:56 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 14:02:01 <drac_boy> have fun with that debugging then wormnest :) 14:02:16 *** ToneKnee [~quassel@host109-148-31-17.range109-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 14:02:24 <drac_boy> I'm still very slowly working on a small grf set .. otherwise not too much else to say 14:02:44 * drac_boy on a note is looking to order a few oversea rail books in late august or so 14:03:21 <drac_boy> one of them should be interesting .. its re L D Porta and his steam locomotive developments 14:08:04 <Wormnest> thanks and good luck with finishing your NewGRF 14:09:13 <drac_boy> np 14:16:26 <drac_boy> interesting list alberth 14:17:07 <Alberth> it is? 14:18:05 <Alberth> just two lists merged after removing the non-bulk cargoes 14:29:51 <drac_boy> anyway going off for a bit now..might be back later tho ;) 14:29:56 *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@modemcable027.125-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [] 14:44:59 *** ricus [~ricus@chunli.enric.me] has quit [Quit: 'Til next time!] 14:49:21 *** fjb_ [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:55:17 *** monkeydrone_ [uid158029@id-158029.ealing.irccloud.com] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 14:57:01 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 15:00:20 *** ricus [~ricus@chunli.enric.me] has joined #openttd 15:06:54 *** Klanticus [~quassel@177.34.163.192] has joined #openttd 15:07:05 <Alberth> (15:55:59) Alberth: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pfvknr8h5 <-- bulk cargoes for andythenorth 15:09:50 <andythenorth> Alberth: thanks :) 15:10:06 *** Klanticus_ [~quassel@177.34.163.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:11:46 <Alberth> some are obsolete, not sure if you wanted them 15:15:39 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd 15:16:07 <andythenorth> I took the simple solution, I banned most of them from dump trucks 15:16:31 <Alberth> :) 15:18:18 <andythenorth> I could provide recolouring if someone worked out the colours to use 15:19:07 <andythenorth> some of them should be covered cargos anyway, not for dump trucks 15:26:03 <Alberth> nuts doesn't have colours? 15:26:28 <Alberth> although some are, euhm, "interesting" :) 15:27:20 <Alberth> I like that, as it makes it very obvious what cargo is being carried, but not everybody likes that 15:27:40 <andythenorth> I am sticking to ârealismâ for cargos :) 15:27:51 <andythenorth> parameter: cartoon mode 15:29:08 <V453000> today I am working on something so retrded that I need the windows magnified ._. 15:29:25 <V453000> NUTS has CC color stripes and wagon base colours to identify cargoes 15:29:39 <V453000> some wagons have no CC though, yes ... but that is rare 15:30:12 <Alberth> no magnify application in windows? 15:30:53 <V453000> that's what I am using 15:30:59 <V453000> ah typo 15:31:04 <V453000> I meant magnifier :) 15:31:54 * andythenorth will explain the unsupported cargos as âgameplayâ reasons 15:32:08 <andythenorth> actually I canât be arsed to pick 6 colours from the palette for them 15:32:32 <V453000> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nuts/wiki/GearCargoSystem 15:33:50 <andythenorth> what does all mean? :) 15:34:35 <V453000> outer color is wagon 15:34:38 <V453000> inner color is cargo 15:35:03 <V453000> first image is all cargoes available (never seen together), other images are possible configurations 15:35:29 <V453000> I made this for myself so I could quickly get colours for all the possible variants, yet have unique sets of colours for all things 15:36:07 <V453000> PART hoppers are going to only have about 5 models, all just for wagon variety like self discharging hoppers, normal hoppers, some extra large hoppers, ... and cargoes will be done by recolour 15:36:14 <V453000> it's hugely file size saving, and future proof 15:36:22 <Samu> http://www.geforce.com/hardware/10series/titan-x-pascal - rip AMD 15:36:30 <V453000> in case you get some stupid idea that you want 10 new cargoes for FIRS, I just add more recolour rules for them 15:36:32 <V453000> no new sprites 15:36:34 <Samu> then again... 00 15:36:50 <V453000> where if I want to update NUTS to work with new cargoes, I would shit myself sooner 15:37:08 <V453000> I am probably going to buy the new titan X yeah 15:39:35 <V453000> but not reference card, some aftermarket like from evga 15:39:50 * andythenorth makes offer 15:40:17 <V453000> and the rx 480 can probably hold it's own vs. gtx 1060 15:40:17 * andythenorth will add bulk cargos if someone provides the palette indexes for the remap 15:40:17 <andythenorth> :P 15:40:34 <V453000> andythenorth: I am going to do that sooner or later anyway 15:40:39 <V453000> if you want to wait, it shall be done 15:40:42 <Samu> rx 480 loses to gtx 1060 15:40:47 <andythenorth> yours wonât be super-realism V453000 :P 15:40:52 <V453000> ok Samu :D 15:40:59 <V453000> andythenorth: the cargo itself kind of is 15:41:03 <Samu> only beats it with performance/price category 15:41:05 <andythenorth> I demand you actually make real fertiliser and crap 15:41:20 <V453000> real fertiliser = brown shit? 15:41:27 <V453000> that's what I mean Samu 15:41:30 <andythenorth> I have 14 remaps already, but got bored of counting with my fingers on the palette in photoshop 15:41:37 <V453000> XD 15:43:15 <V453000> what does real fertiliser look like? 15:43:17 <V453000> white shit? 15:43:18 <V453000> brown shit? 15:43:37 <V453000> https://www.google.cz/search?q=fertiliser&client=firefox-b-ab&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjd7Je5uIzOAhVEUBQKHQCBCPwQ_AUICCgB&biw=1920&bih=983#imgrc=rE7bV-ZtnqgO3M%3A 15:43:39 <V453000> blue shit is legit 15:43:57 <V453000> https://www.google.cz/search?q=fertiliser&client=firefox-b-ab&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjd7Je5uIzOAhVEUBQKHQCBCPwQ_AUICCgB&biw=1920&bih=983#imgrc=LppTTxxd7LCMOM%3A 15:45:01 <Samu> poor amd, they can never win at anything anymore now 15:46:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd probably go with grey, but it should be transported in covered wagons anyway 15:46:54 <V453000> yeah should would might 15:46:55 <andythenorth> yair 15:47:26 <V453000> it's nice if players can see if the wagon is full or empty, and of which cargo 15:47:35 <andythenorth> +0.7 15:47:59 <andythenorth> for open wagons, I would like each cargo to be unique 15:48:08 <andythenorth> that is at least hard, if not ~impossible :P 15:48:22 <andythenorth> if you use a covered hopper, no cargo sprites for you 15:48:58 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you could see it while loading, and close the hopper during travelling 15:50:35 <V453000> while it's loading you have a lot of other ways to identify it, like station sprites/name etc 15:50:39 <V453000> on the tracks you don't 15:50:44 <V453000> that's the most important place 15:51:05 <V453000> BUT, PART is going to have some boxcars, too 15:51:09 <Eddi|zuHause> make a coloured stripe along the wagon that changes on refit 15:51:17 <V453000> they will be unique so you know what is there, but still 15:51:30 <V453000> well, coloured stripe doesn't really tell what's inside 15:51:35 <Eddi|zuHause> it won't show empty or full 15:51:48 <Eddi|zuHause> but it makes the cargo easily recognizable 15:52:15 <Eddi|zuHause> and if you don't know in which direction your full and empty vehicles are travelling, you probably have different problems :p 15:52:21 <V453000> to some degree, sure yes 15:52:35 <V453000> they can be going in many various directions 15:52:54 <V453000> like when you have 4 different food plants supplying 20 cities 15:52:57 <Eddi|zuHause> then you can still click on it to find out if it's full or empty 15:53:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't really understand why that's a problem that needs to be solved 15:53:38 <V453000> it's not game breaking, but it is extremely convenient to see 15:53:45 <V453000> on first sight, no clicking 15:53:56 <Eddi|zuHause> you could have the empty wagons run open 15:54:08 <Eddi|zuHause> and only close the full ones 15:54:12 <V453000> yes, indeed 15:54:19 <V453000> the full ones are the only problem, really 15:56:39 * andythenorth has tankers that recolour for cargo 15:56:46 <andythenorth> but not empty/full 15:56:53 <andythenorth> because eh, donât care about that :) 15:57:19 <Eddi|zuHause> exactly. 15:57:50 <V453000> sure, just realism > stylized graphics/gameplay 15:57:54 <V453000> for me it's the opposite 16:01:24 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: well, the optimization problem here is to find stylized graphics without sacrificing too much realism 16:01:45 <V453000> obviously 16:01:51 <andythenorth> I am repainting trams, using more of the good sprites and killing the bad sprites 16:01:57 <andythenorth> but they now look a bit âsame' 16:02:00 <V453000> speaking of stylized graphics, I probably decided today that BRIX will not be white 16:02:03 <V453000> probably green 16:02:44 <Samu> bullying, huh? 16:03:19 <andythenorth> V453000: good call 16:04:08 <Samu> https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=munich+bullying&view=detailv2&&id=EDFE8FB0E9E20917CBF0AEACC06EAD24478670EB&selectedIndex=0&ccid=PNEe8T6T&simid=290458446557&thid=HG.290458446557&ajaxhist=0 16:04:40 <Samu> lesson learned: don't bully 16:05:40 <V453000> andythenorth: I got to the conclusion when trying to make snow XD 16:05:44 <andythenorth> ha ha 16:05:44 <V453000> I had some doubts previously 16:05:45 <V453000> but yeah 16:07:34 <V453000> it probably still classifies as stylized as fuck though :P 16:07:53 *** Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 16:09:42 <V453000> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02pWbr9bgbA&feature=youtu.be 16:11:19 <andythenorth> hurgh 16:11:27 * andythenorth ponders CC crap 16:11:32 <andythenorth> when to use what 16:27:35 <NGC3982> http://skarmdump.henjoh.se/what-a-mess.PNG 16:28:38 <ST2> that's a Pun (ninghead) xD 16:30:58 <NGC3982> :) 16:34:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i've seen worse messes 16:37:49 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~farci@i59F6C3E2.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 16:44:21 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6A45C.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:44:31 <Wolf01> andythenorth, do you have any suggestion about the repository? I have one slow, unreliable, home-based, svn server which I use for this kind of stuff 16:45:09 <andythenorth> can we put it on coop? 16:45:13 <andythenorth> dunno 16:45:23 <andythenorth> you want git or hg? 16:45:46 <Wolf01> never used hg, and git on readonly 16:47:38 <MonkeyDrone> for private repositories, bitbucket works 16:47:43 <MonkeyDrone> unlimited private repos :D 16:48:10 <Wolf01> don't need to be private, we aren't kids 16:48:23 <MonkeyDrone> well github it is then 16:48:24 <Wolf01> and the game is open source :P 16:49:05 <MonkeyDrone> it sure is :P well i was just throwing it out there 16:49:29 <MonkeyDrone> why not use github and use your own svn server? unless you got raid on it, it's quiet risky 16:58:11 <andythenorth> Wolf01: setting up a repo was actually the major thing that put me off starting a âproperâ patch :P 16:59:15 <andythenorth> I could try and make one on devzone, but I always do it wrong 16:59:24 <andythenorth> also I donât really like hg 16:59:36 <Wolf01> yeah, too many things to configure and keep in sync.. at least if you want to do things in the right way 17:00:57 <andythenorth> I have an account on bitbucket 17:01:02 <andythenorth> or we could use github 17:01:10 <andythenorth> probably just use github? :P 17:01:23 <Wolf01> I automated the creation of svn repos on linux at work, but I don't have any linux here 17:01:34 <andythenorth> also I canât svn 17:01:55 <Wolf01> github is fair, I don't know how to use it but I'll learn :P 17:02:32 <Wolf01> btw, got to go, I'll come back in 2 hours 17:05:21 <andythenorth> k 17:28:00 <andythenorth> https://github.com/andythenorth/NotRoadTypes 18:00:02 <Alberth> svn is mostly checkout once, commit, and update for getting updates from the other devs, much simpler than the distributed VCSes 18:00:18 <V453000> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/BRIX/BRIX_taster6.png 18:00:42 <V453000> trees will have colours too 18:00:53 <Alberth> tasty brix! 18:01:16 <Alberth> and nice link to the train track build train too :) 18:10:42 <Samu> 2048, 2018 18:41:13 *** NoShlomo|Rejoined [~NoShlomo@90.74.151.136] has joined #openttd 18:44:07 <Wolf01> brix \o/ 18:44:46 <Wolf01> hype for 3GB grf pack for OTTD 18:45:21 <V453000> 50MB Wolf01 18:45:22 <V453000> <3 18:46:09 <Wolf01> :D 18:46:52 <V453000> it will grow a bit 18:46:59 <V453000> but still, filesize pretty good so far 18:47:05 *** Klanticus_ [~quassel@177.34.163.192] has joined #openttd 18:47:41 <Wolf01> I'll wait for the rail set then :> 18:48:15 <Wolf01> 55% humidity :E 18:48:18 <V453000> that will take a while 18:48:26 *** NoShlomo [~NoShlomo@90.74.151.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:49:12 <Wolf01> I was drowning outside, I made it to home just in time 18:50:13 *** Klanticus [~quassel@177.34.163.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:59:31 <MonkeyDrone> 55% , damn.... 18:59:55 <MonkeyDrone> 80% :) 19:00:40 <MonkeyDrone> http://www.bahrainweather.gov.bh/ 19:01:16 <MonkeyDrone> 90% max :D woooooooooooooo, i was outsidejogging for 1.5 hours. damn clothes got heavy really wellby the end of it 19:05:59 <Wolf01> I managed to forgot to compress the logs... 14GB of plain text logs since 2013 19:06:53 <Wolf01> right now is 1GB->3MB 19:06:55 <frosch123> does not sound like irc logs :p 19:07:50 <Wolf01> no, the webserver ones, but I should take care even for irc logs... I have 12 years of logs 19:10:32 <Wolf01> pfff I tried again to scroll the screenshot 19:12:21 <andythenorth> Wolf01: ^ repo link above 19:12:26 <andythenorth> I put openttd in it :P 19:12:29 <Wolf01> yeah, noticed it :P 19:12:47 <Wolf01> I need to understand how git works now :D 19:14:02 <MonkeyDrone> no one understand git xD 19:14:43 <MonkeyDrone> well that's what my brother says, he's been using it for years :P 19:18:05 <Wolf01> could I use both svn and git on the same working copy? 19:18:32 *** monkeydrone_ [uid158029@id-158029.ealing.irccloud.com] has joined #openttd 19:22:00 <Alberth> https://help.github.com/articles/support-for-subversion-clients/ 19:22:20 <Alberth> no idea if it does anything useful :) 19:22:46 <Alberth> I tried hg with a git repo, and that failed hopelessly 19:23:00 <Alberth> but hg is then a lot more complicated than svn 19:23:47 <Wolf01> oh, yeah, I forgot I can use svn with git too 19:24:16 <Wolf01> need to relocate then 19:25:21 <Alberth> I'd check out a new working copy :p 19:25:45 <Alberth> hmm, may be somewhat large 19:25:50 <Wolf01> yeah, better do it 19:27:15 <Alberth> you could copy the working copy locally, and then switch one of them 19:29:32 <Wolf01> nah, it bitches that the working copy has different uuid 19:30:42 <Wolf01> I'll checkout directly from github so it shuts up 19:40:53 <Wolf01> andy, did you forget to add some resource files? the game exits with "failed to find a sounds set" 19:43:03 <Alberth> openttd.cfg from the repo? 19:45:01 <Wolf01> maybe, but I can't find it in the working copy, so it should be using the one in the user folder 19:45:28 <Wolf01> (my ottd installation has it's own one, because it's portable) 19:47:26 <Wolf01> it has soundsset = "NoSound" 19:48:25 <Rubidium> the repository misses files 19:49:01 <Wolf01> the cat may have eat them 19:54:14 *** frosch123 [~frosch@00013ce7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 19:56:13 <andythenorth> Wolf01: I just cloned the openttd repo, copied everything, and pushed it 19:56:58 <Wolf01> no clue 19:57:30 <Wolf01> I just checked out, changed the project configuration to include libs etc and compiled 19:57:52 <V453000> andythenorth: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/BRIX/BRIX_taster6.png 19:59:28 <andythenorth> V453000: your iron ore mine sucks :P 19:59:33 <andythenorth> crap 19:59:35 <V453000> XD 20:00:00 <V453000> it's copied from your iron ore mine isn't it 20:00:18 <andythenorth> yeah 20:00:22 <andythenorth> mineâs crap too 20:01:09 <Wolf01> factorio time... I have a rocket to build 20:01:43 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: colour is fine, but needs some texture... 20:01:44 <V453000> Wolf01: just one? 20:01:51 <Wolf01> yes, one 20:01:52 <V453000> no texture for you 20:02:10 <V453000> I like it ultra clean 20:02:49 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-157-231.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 20:03:03 <Alberth> transparent texture would work 20:03:15 <Alberth> or a completely green one 20:03:27 <Alberth> just 1x1 pixel :p 20:03:34 <V453000> wat 20:04:14 <Alberth> texture gets stretched over the entire area right? 20:04:27 <V453000> it can 20:04:40 <Alberth> so one green pixel would be enough to cover it all 20:04:41 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@89.136.141.100] has quit [] 20:04:56 <V453000> not exactly, the slopes are actually each different color 20:04:59 <V453000> it is slightly visible 20:05:22 <V453000> it's just pushing the contrast between hills to make it easier to orientate in 20:05:34 <V453000> it might be a bit too much 20:06:05 <Alberth> ah, good point 20:06:18 <V453000> but they do come from 1 colour node 20:06:30 <V453000> so if you replaced that node with a texture, it would automatically re-apply the contrast 20:06:32 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: well i was not REALLY expecting you to follow my suggestion :p 20:06:42 <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: good 20:06:49 <V453000> go draw CETS. :> 20:08:58 <Alberth> hmm, too much? for me, from the hole near the NW edge of the lake all the way to the top looks like vertical walls to me 20:09:36 <Alberth> maybe it's the lack of stuff on the edges? 20:09:56 <V453000> idk :) 20:10:45 <Alberth> ,maybe not enough contrast between the sun-facing and non-sub facing sides? 20:11:17 <V453000> I think there is shitload of contrast already 20:11:40 <Alberth> at the SE side of the lake definitely 20:12:10 <andythenorth> needs beaches 20:12:12 <andythenorth> is the problem 20:12:16 <andythenorth> landscape is fine 20:12:24 <V453000> h8 biches 20:12:43 <Alberth> biches on the beaches! 20:14:10 <Wolf01> cluster grenades hailstorm, what a wonderful weapon, is even more effective than the ion cannon mod 20:14:15 <andythenorth> meh 20:14:16 <andythenorth> 2CC 20:14:26 <Samu> 2050, 2019 20:14:30 <Samu> last year for otviai 20:15:07 <andythenorth> I have 2CC-ed a tram 20:15:09 <Eddi|zuHause> has milek7 requested more company colours yet? :p 20:15:23 <andythenorth> and now Iâll have to do all of that type of tram in 2CC :P 20:15:24 <andythenorth> and the trucks 20:16:43 <andythenorth> Road Hog is such a classic failed project 20:17:05 <V453000> wat 20:17:56 <andythenorth> I set simple goal, like âfinish 6 trams' 20:18:02 <andythenorth> and that means redrawing about 20 trams :P 20:18:29 <andythenorth> making some better highlights lameness in the rest :P 20:19:03 <Eddi|zuHause> isn't that how the world works nowadays? "kill 6 terrorists", ignoring the fact that you create 20 new terrorists that way 20:19:56 <andythenorth> perhaps 20:20:40 <V453000> smells like politics 20:21:25 <V453000> allahu akbar anus? 20:21:30 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: it's just like (software) bugs or features 20:26:05 <V453000> oh just read about machete shit in germany 20:26:07 <V453000> :( 20:27:41 <Wolf01> yes, it's getting worse every day... 20:28:01 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:28:05 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:28:09 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 20:28:29 <Wolf01> but not only because IS/religion/immigrants, even normal people are overreacting for little things 20:29:07 <V453000> well yeah because the politicians are doing nothing 20:29:31 <V453000> let's invite everybody to europe, we don't even need passport controls, "we can make it" 20:29:33 <Rubidium> they are doing nothing? 20:29:54 <V453000> it's so much easier to say than actually set up proper border control 20:30:06 <Rubidium> they're a major cause of the fear 20:30:16 <Eddi|zuHause> wtf is a passport control going to do? it's not going to say "terrorist" in there... 20:30:44 <V453000> well, what do you know, but in general letting anybody in your country/union is not a great idea 20:31:04 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe, but keeping them out is an even worse idea... 20:31:22 <V453000> how? 20:31:35 <Eddi|zuHause> because that's how 800 people drown in the sea, creating resentments in their 15000 relatives 20:31:50 <Eddi|zuHause> out of those 15000, 20 might become terrorists 20:31:54 <V453000> well why did they travel on the sea then? 20:32:14 <V453000> if they go illegally to cross a border over sea, then? 20:32:33 <Eddi|zuHause> how did something being illegal ever stop anyone? 20:32:49 <V453000> well then with that point we can discuss about anything :D 20:33:14 <Eddi|zuHause> if you make drugs illegal, the drugs don't disappear. if you make homosexuality illegal, the homosexuals don't disappear, ... 20:33:33 <V453000> I am not saying they should disappear, I do not even say we should not accept them, but in a controlled, clear way 20:33:51 <V453000> not let 2 million people come, nobody knows how many, nobody knows where from, nobody knows anything 20:34:08 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. but there won't be a controlled clear way, as long as everybody gets sidetracked by an "all or nothing" discussion 20:34:25 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:34:39 <Alberth> not that you'd ever get agreement on a number 20:34:41 <V453000> well in France it's probably already too late and the shit will spread so beating dead horse 20:34:51 <Alberth> or you couldclose the border if you reached it 20:35:22 <Eddi|zuHause> the fact that it has nothing to do with the 2 million who came last year is totally disappearing. the guy in france was in the country for decades 20:35:35 <andythenorth> France is years of colonial history 20:35:39 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 20:35:45 <Eddi|zuHause> no amount of passport controls would have stopped him 20:35:52 <andythenorth> including brutal civil war in its mediterranean colonies 20:35:53 <V453000> you should close the border immediately, create refuge camps for them in neutral area, solve security shit, open border as decided 20:35:56 <Samu> remove the internet from europe 20:36:00 <Samu> problem solve! 20:36:13 <Eddi|zuHause> there is no such thing as a neutral area 20:36:21 <V453000> well then near the border you get the point 20:36:36 <ST2> nah nah, remove Samu's internet - AMD and Nvidia will tank ^^ 20:36:40 <Eddi|zuHause> and concentrating hundreds of thousands into a few single camps is only going to make it worse 20:36:52 <ST2> thank* 20:37:00 <V453000> do they run away from war or not 20:37:04 <V453000> peaceful camp should be ok 20:37:47 <Eddi|zuHause> how is a camp with a hundred thousand people who have nothing to do all day filled with people from opposing factions ever going to be "peaceful" 20:38:02 <Rubidium> so Nice... guy was in France since 2005, immigrated via normal channels. Paris of november last year... most from France and Belgium (as in born there) 20:38:28 <V453000> well if they aren't peaceful then let them fight it out wherever they want but not in our cities 20:38:29 <Rubidium> so, in my opinion the best way to prevent terrorism in Europe is to kick all the Europeans out 20:38:40 <V453000> also, I don't get how can islam not be prohibited the same way as nazis 20:39:04 <sim-al2> V, try to ban Christainity and see what happens 20:39:23 <V453000> I am not banning it in their countries, in ours at least 20:39:31 <Eddi|zuHause> because islam is not a racist organization that organized a mass murder of millions of people? 20:39:42 <andythenorth> is there a new version of godwin? o_O 20:39:56 <V453000> and in the last years there hasn't been many christian warriors exploding in train stations etc afaik 20:40:02 <V453000> it's not Eddi|zuHause ? 20:40:07 <V453000> well then ok 20:40:26 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: it might as well flare up again in northern ireland... it's not that long ago and tensions are still high 20:40:40 <andythenorth> all through my childhood catholics were blowing up protestants and protestants were blowing up catholics 20:40:41 <Rubidium> V453000: the Christians did it a few hundred years ago on a much more massive scale 20:40:52 <V453000> yes Rubidium, hundred years ago 20:41:14 <V453000> I'm not saying christianity has no bad things, it has shitloads 20:41:16 <Rubidium> V453000: you think people lost their "animal instincts" since then? 20:41:23 <andythenorth> there are about 2.7m muslims in UK, and about 10 have commited terrorist acts on UK soil 20:42:31 <Rubidium> andythenorth: and Northern Irelanders? 20:42:35 <Eddi|zuHause> last information i have is around 5% muslims in germany 20:43:13 <V453000> France is like 10%? more? 20:43:17 <Eddi|zuHause> the strange thing is, anti-foreigner and anti-muslim resentments are highest in the areas that have the fewest foreigners and muslims 20:43:20 <andythenorth> Rubidium I didnât look it up 20:43:45 <Eddi|zuHause> so as far as i can tell, the solution is to get more muslims 20:43:50 *** fjb_ [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:43:55 <andythenorth> silly debate, ends up arguing for âgoodâ and âbadâ terrorists :P 20:43:57 * andythenorth back to trams 20:44:01 <Eddi|zuHause> to a point where it's a common daily sight 20:44:17 <V453000> yeah Eddi|zuHause that totally works in France XD 20:44:59 <Eddi|zuHause> it totally doesn't work in france because of ghetto-ization, i.e. the individual groups stay on their own, and don't mix 20:45:18 <Wolf01> I just noticed that biters see me as an illegal alien terrorist which blows up things :( 20:45:23 <V453000> it's not like multicultural integration works any different anywhere else 20:46:05 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-109-91-72-28.hsi12.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 20:46:10 <Rubidium> V453000: that's the point a bit, the integration in France (and Belgium) is kinda failing 20:46:18 <Eddi|zuHause> well, yeah, it's not like the european countries are fundamentally different from each other, so the problems will be very similar throughout 20:46:53 <V453000> well it's not like the muslims want to integrate, they just shut up until they have majority in an area 20:47:05 <Eddi|zuHause> but still, the key point is this mixing in with the population that is already there. that is the real problem that needs to be solved 20:47:48 <Rubidium> V453000: weird, the muslims I know are fairly well integrated; okay, they don't go to church on Sunday, but neither do I... 20:48:20 <V453000> of course, you probably don't go to work in a nogo zone or muslim ghetto 20:49:43 <Rubidium> true, though I live in the neighbourhood with most crime (of 2014 in the Netherlands) 20:49:43 <Wolf01> they don't go to church because they go to the mousquee 20:50:43 <Rubidium> and the mosque is well.. 400-500 meters from here 20:51:05 <V453000> nice so about 500 metres from you someone might be saying kill the infidels? :P 20:52:10 <Rubidium> unlikely, but yeah... but so could they in the church 20:52:52 <Rubidium> after all, it's all in the explanation of (roughly) the same story 20:53:27 <V453000> idk I might be racist but I don't feel like tolerating islam 20:53:29 <V453000> amen 20:54:13 <Rubidium> ah well, I can't stand fundamentalists of basically any religion 20:55:09 <V453000> point 20:59:04 <Eddi|zuHause> even non-religious fundamentalists 20:59:39 <Eddi|zuHause> like fundamental capitalists. or fundamental feminists. 21:00:05 <andythenorth> Richard Stallman 21:00:18 <Eddi|zuHause> fundamental freesoftwareist? 21:03:21 <andythenorth> so 21:03:31 <andythenorth> livestock wagons are grey in Iron Horse 21:03:42 <andythenorth> but livestock trucks are 2CC in Road Hog 21:03:52 * andythenorth wants consistency 21:03:54 <andythenorth> grey or 2CC? 21:04:12 <V453000> 1CC and use 2nd CC for cargo stuff 21:04:16 <V453000> like containers etc 21:04:33 <Eddi|zuHause> can't you just recolour the grey? 21:04:41 <andythenorth> yes 21:04:44 <V453000> different amount of shades likely 21:04:49 <andythenorth> not 50 21:04:57 <andythenorth> but is grey better than 2CC? 21:05:04 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4e30e2ba.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta] 21:05:05 <andythenorth> mostly I care that things are fast to find in buy menu 21:05:10 <andythenorth> so differentiation is good 21:05:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't mind the grey, but a bit of 2nd CC is nice as wel 21:05:51 <Eddi|zuHause> l 21:06:28 *** OsteHovel [~OsteHovel@c3EFA45C1.dhcp.as2116.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:08:08 *** OsteHovel [~OsteHovel@cE6A03E56.dhcp.as2116.net] has joined #openttd 21:17:13 <andythenorth> maybe matching IH and RH is a slavish consistency 21:17:17 * andythenorth might not bother 21:19:17 <Samu> dec 2050, last month 21:21:29 *** NoShlomo|Rejoined [~NoShlomo@90.74.151.136] has quit [Quit: NoShlomo|Rejoined] 21:25:17 *** monkeydrone_ [uid158029@id-158029.ealing.irccloud.com] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 21:26:45 <andythenorth> oops 21:26:49 <andythenorth> bedtime 21:26:50 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has left #openttd [] 21:28:24 <Samu> finished! 21:29:55 <Samu> next trio 21:30:07 <Samu> terron ! 21:32:38 <Samu> just started original/npf/yapf terron 21:32:47 <Samu> ships 21:38:16 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd 22:09:05 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-137-142.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 22:12:25 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18B4F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:28:03 *** Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 22:46:14 *** Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 22:47:14 *** Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [] 23:00:27 *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@modemcable027.125-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 23:01:19 <drac_boy> if theres anyone from uk here...I have to ask but how common did you think the gresley (I believe that it was his?) 3-cylinder assembly was? I can't exactly recall seeing many locomotives with single center cylinder photo-wise 23:01:46 <drac_boy> I do recall seeing quite a number of earlier 4-cylinder steam but thats a different matter tho 23:21:05 <Eddi|zuHause> is there not a wikipedia page on every engine design that ever existed, including the number of units produced? 23:21:36 <Wolf01> 'night 23:21:39 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:51:31 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po1-84-91-250-188.netvisao.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]