Log for #openttd on 24th July 2016:
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06:04:09  <andythenorth> is cat
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08:05:44  <andythenorth> so
08:06:16  <andythenorth> I have crippled tram TE, because the values were very very high compared to equivalent trains
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08:08:34  <andythenorth> it’s still too high, probably at least double the RL value
08:10:54  <andythenorth> comparing equivalent trams and trains (similar HP and consist weight), the tram with twice the TE of the train takes 8 tiles to reach max speed (35mph)
08:11:04  <andythenorth> the train reaches 40mph in about 4 tiles
08:14:51  <Flygon_> If anything, this does show how screwey OpenTTD's physics model is
08:15:09  * andythenorth is looking for the code
08:15:23  <andythenorth> I don’t mind screwy physics, just need to know what values to set
08:15:44  * andythenorth suspects there’s some friction coefficient or something that’s different
08:17:51  <andythenorth> friction coeff 15 for trains, 40 for trams
08:27:05  <Flygon_> Higher makes accelerating harder?
08:27:48  <Flygon_> It seems a bit odd, given even really weak Trams are really sprightly
08:28:16  <Flygon_> The W-Classes in Melbourne might seem weak by modern standards, but you can still trip over your passengers with the acceleration :P
08:30:42  <andythenorth> hmm
08:30:47  * andythenorth is doing it wrong
08:34:52  <andythenorth> to overcome rolling friction I need more HP, not TE?
08:34:56  <andythenorth> TE is about going up slopes
08:35:07  <Flygon_> Welllllll
08:35:16  <Flygon_> TE helps with acceleration
08:35:26  <Flygon_> But it is capped by horsepower
08:35:51  <Flygon_> A machine can have craptacular TE, but an infinite speed cap and moderate horsepower
08:36:03  <Flygon_> It will constantly keep accelerating, even if slowly, assuming OpenTTD physics
08:36:47  <Flygon_> If a machine has insanely high TE, infinite max speed, but crap horsepower, it hits a lower speed cap than the previous machine would
08:36:51  <Flygon_> With the same weight load
08:37:06  <Flygon_> I phrased that crappily
08:37:09  <Flygon_> Let's reword it
08:37:15  <Flygon_> TE is your acceleration
08:37:26  <Flygon_> But more HP allows for more powerful acceleration... ?
08:37:27  <Flygon_> Fuck
08:37:32  <Flygon_> Why didn't I take that physics class
08:37:39  <Flygon_> It all makes sense in my head :|
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09:13:58  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27623 trunk/config.lib (2016-07-24 11:13:51 +0200 )
09:13:59  <DorpsGek> -Fix (r27616) [FS#6492]: Missed two version checks, and messed one up.
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09:27:36  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it might very well be that train physics is simply calculated twice as often as tram physics, and that's why tram and train behave differently.
09:27:58  <Eddi|zuHause> also, for TE the weight of the front unit is relevant, not just consist weight
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09:38:02  <andythenorth> I can account for that by moving capacity or weight around
09:38:03  <andythenorth> somewhat
09:40:31  <andythenorth> for now I have simply increased tram HP :P
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09:46:47  <Wolf01> o/
09:49:19  <Eddi|zuHause> in any case, the max TE value as modelled by openttd describes the sliding friction, and limits the acceleration at low speeds. at higher speeds, HP is the only restriction to acceleration
09:49:57  <Eddi|zuHause> sliding friction is probably not the right word
09:50:17  <Eddi|zuHause> the point at wich the wheels start to slip
09:50:27  <Eddi|zuHause> instead of roll
09:50:43  <Wolf01> I always tought we used air drag... it's easy with cubes :>
09:50:54  <Wolf01> *thought
09:51:04  <Eddi|zuHause> there is also air drag
09:51:14  <Eddi|zuHause> but that is only relevant at high speeds
09:51:43  <Flygon_> I thought Air Drag, for the purposes of OpenTTD, only occoured in tunnels
09:52:04  <Eddi|zuHause> no
09:52:11  <Eddi|zuHause> it's just much higher in tunnels
09:53:27  <Flygon_> Oh O_o
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09:58:54  <Wolf01> I've taken physics class, but I'm too lazy to make calculations, that's why I usually build one train and test it, if it doesn't work well (can't reach at least 95% of speed cap or takes ages to accelerate) then I'll add one or more engines
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10:01:23  <Wolf01> Usually I just convert KN to Kg if I'm not sure if the TE is enough for my consist, just to get a suggestion on how many engines it needs
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10:02:31  <Wolf01> o/
10:02:43  <Alberth> hi
10:03:20  <Alberth> oh, the morning has already finished
10:05:42  <Wolf01> And with convert I mean "multiply the TE by 100"
10:07:09  <Alberth> absolute TE is of interest? I just use "bigger is better"
10:08:16  <Wolf01> I think the TE in OTTD is a nice thing to have, but also enough confusing to whom doesn't understand these things, we should need a "your engines are able to move up to #Kg"
10:10:15  <Alberth> fair enough
10:10:16  <Wolf01> <-
10:10:28  <Wolf01> like this
10:12:16  <Alberth> ha, yes :)
10:12:49  <Wolf01> mmmh, I need more home automation... "hey cortana, close windows and start the air cooler"... shuts down pc
10:12:49  <Alberth> all the model railway people will be sad though
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10:14:08  <Samu> 2041, 2015
10:14:08  <Alberth> haha :)    I had a signature "Look ma, windows (on my computer) without Windows" for years :)
10:14:20  <MonkeyDrone> i enabled cortana 2 weeks ago
10:14:24  <MonkeyDrone> then i realized i don't have a mic...
10:14:27  <MonkeyDrone> gg
10:14:33  <Wolf01> +1
10:14:46  <MonkeyDrone> it's too late to stop cortana, she might as well collect whatever info is left to collect ;p
10:14:49  <Alberth> :D
10:15:30  <Samu> i got my hands on a celeron 1000
10:15:39  <Samu> 128 MB ram
10:15:42  <MonkeyDrone> oh gawd, celerons
10:15:52  <MonkeyDrone> had to use one long long time ago, it was slow even for that time
10:15:58  <Samu> 6 GB HDD
10:16:27  <Samu> didn't try openttd on it, i should perhaps
10:18:38  <Wolf01> I'm thinking about disabling the voice feature on my desktop and enable it on the phone
10:18:49  <Wolf01> I think is more useful there
10:19:02  <MonkeyDrone> Samu, lol, it won't work
10:19:12  <MonkeyDrone> Samu, but you could set it up to run as a router or something
10:19:24  <Samu> it doesn't have network
10:20:04  <Wolf01> I have a celeron 1000 as a server, running for at least 12 years
10:20:36  <Wolf01> I'll replace it with a SoC one day...
10:20:49  <Samu> it has a phone line connection thing
10:20:56  <Wolf01> called modem
10:20:57  <Samu> it's useless
10:21:00  <Samu> ya
10:21:23  <Samu> compaq presario something
10:21:37  <Wolf01> Mine too, I use it as a fax machine too
10:21:58  <Samu> compaq presario 12xl403
10:22:24  <Samu> can't find a picture of it on the internet :(
10:23:06  <MonkeyDrone> AOL still uses dialup
10:23:08  <MonkeyDrone> you can hook it up
10:23:10  <MonkeyDrone> hehe
10:23:15  <Samu> i thought the internet had everything
10:23:38  <MonkeyDrone> i'm sure it's out there somewhere, the internet is like a blackhole. You gotta go deep, not just the tip :P
10:30:12  <MonkeyDrone> hahaha shit, i just locked myself out of my own vps server
10:30:18  <MonkeyDrone> sigh*...
10:30:50  <Samu>
10:30:52  <Samu> thx russia
10:31:38  <MonkeyDrone> lol
10:31:49  <MonkeyDrone> wow, that looks old school
10:31:57  <MonkeyDrone> you can kill someone with it
10:32:01  <MonkeyDrone> how heavy is it?
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10:33:59  <Samu> not sure, a bit heavy
10:36:14  <Flygon_> That's not a laptop, that's a weapon
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10:43:17  <Samu> 3.3 Kg
10:44:18  <Samu> i ran a few benchmarks on it
10:44:38  <Samu> it's the slowest thing I've tested
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10:45:49  <Samu> superpi 1m - 189 seconds
10:47:00  <Samu> wPrime 32m - 215,931 seconds
10:49:01  <Samu> funny results from old hardware I got here
10:49:53  <Samu> Pentium 4 at 2.4 GHz is slower than Athlon XP 1800+ at 1533 MHz in superpi and wprime
10:51:52  <Samu> interesting results on Maxtor HDDs
10:52:51  <MonkeyDrone> 3.3kg, sounds liek a workout warmup machine ;p
10:53:09  <MonkeyDrone> the old athlons were more powerful than the pentiums iirc
10:53:13  <andythenorth> Alberth: model railway people I don’t mind, it’s the accountants I worry about  :P
10:53:14  <Samu> 200 GB and 250 GB ATA drives are faster at QD1 and QD4 than my 1 TB WD Blue
10:53:18  <MonkeyDrone> amd was king back then
10:53:23  <andythenorth> $someone is going to turn up and report a bug with my trams
10:53:31  <MonkeyDrone> the intel sabotaged the fuck out of amd , life was never the same ;p
10:53:35  <andythenorth> ‘tractive effort is much too high’
10:53:35  <Samu> SATA
10:53:49  <Samu> who bought Maxtor?
10:53:53  <Samu> was it seagate?
10:53:59  <Alberth> add a disclaimer in the readme file :)
10:54:08  <MonkeyDrone> andythenorth, if your tram can deliver cookies and milk everyday at 7am to my doorstop. It has enough tractive effort!
10:54:59  <Alberth> or name it "high power"
10:55:27  <Alberth> "brutal" comes to mind, but that's more V style naming
10:56:25  <Alberth> "XP edition"   (extra power)
10:56:40  <andythenorth> :P
10:58:46  <Samu> there's some odd stuff with athlons as well
10:59:01  <Samu> athlon xp 2000+ is slower in some tests in comparison with athlon xp 1800+
10:59:57  <MonkeyDrone> were they hitting some limits in tech back at that time?
11:01:00  <Samu> i don't remember, i think memory speeds or latency was important for athlons
11:01:29  <Alberth> higher number sell better
11:01:33  <Samu> i know xp 2000+ and xp 1800+ wouldn't work on the same socket
11:01:50  <Samu> xp 2000 needed another motherboard
11:02:40  <Samu> xp 1800+ was my long standing gaming rig, of that I remember
11:02:51  <Samu> i used it for 11 years
11:03:10  <Samu> i had the 2000 and 2700 chip which i couldn't use :(
11:03:53  <Samu> xp 2700+ always crashed
11:04:19  <Samu> xp 2000+ was used on the mobo that was supposed to use the 2700
11:05:17  <Wolf01> ha! monster :(
11:05:37  <Samu> think it was 2000 that would lock on windows, i remember, and the other would get a bsod
11:06:06  <Samu> it was a asrock mobo, and asrock was horribad at this time
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11:06:42  <Samu> eventually i figured out why the 2700+ was crashing, it was the USB
11:07:05  <Samu> as long as i don't use the usb on the mobo, the system has been stable ever since
11:07:17  <Samu> but i only figured that out when i upgraded to a core i5 2500, too late
11:08:07  <Samu> couldn't even use a usb mouse or keyboard, t.t
11:15:36  <Wolf01> uh oh... TT train breakdown irl
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11:22:34  <Samu> SuperPI 1M Athlon XP 1800+: 71,609s
11:22:46  <Samu> SuperPI 1M Athlon XP 2000+: 75,890s
11:23:02  <Samu> keks
11:23:49  <Samu> SuperPI 1M Pentium 4 2.40 GHz: 82,338s
11:24:24  <Samu> SuperPI 1M Pentium 4 2.00 GHz: 93,174s
11:25:06  <Samu> SuperPI 1M Core i5-2500: 10,343s
11:25:19  <Wolf01> try on i5 470 um
11:26:35  <Samu> i thought i had the results of fx-8150
11:26:41  <Samu> must do them
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11:32:22  <Samu> SuperPI 1M FX-8150: 22,141s
11:32:39  <Samu> rip AMD
11:35:34  <MonkeyDrone> nothing wrgon with using ps/2 mouse and keyboard back in those times ;p
11:36:31  <Samu> i don't have results for xp 2700+ :(
11:36:44  <Samu> don't have access to that system here
11:37:08  <andythenorth> cargo cargos cargos
11:37:12  <andythenorth> I have blue tarps
11:37:20  <andythenorth> used for ENSP, FMSP
11:37:27  <andythenorth> should I colour code them for different cargos?
11:37:30  <andythenorth> o_O
11:41:06  <Samu> wPrime 32M FX-8150: 10,085s
11:41:22  <Samu> wPrime 32M Core i5-2500: 11,294s
11:41:50  <Samu> wPrime 32M Athlon XP 2000+: 110,906s
11:42:09  <Samu> wPrime 32M Athlon XP 1800+: 121,359s
11:42:37  <Samu> wPrime 32M Pentium 4 2.40 GHz: 158,417s
11:42:49  <Samu> wPrime 32M Pentium 4 2.00 GHz: 188,211s
11:43:10  <Samu> wPrime 32M Celeron 1000 MHz: 215,931s
11:44:11  <Samu> this time around xp 2000 is faster than xp 1800
11:45:21  <Samu> Pentium 4 really looks odd
11:45:26  <Samu> was it really that bad?
11:46:37  <Samu> it didn't feel that slow, it seemed equivalent to the athlons
11:47:25  <Samu> at least they got SSE2
11:47:35  <Samu> athlon don't
11:59:50  <Wolf01> I don't know andy... it would be cool to distinguish them
12:01:49  <Samu> ah, here it is
12:02:36  <Samu> Tualatin-256
12:02:38  <andythenorth> Wolf01: there are at least blue, red, and some kind of green colour that could be used
12:02:39  <Samu> codename
12:04:10  <Wolf01> I don't have any clue on which colour could fit which cargo
12:04:38  <Wolf01> I only know bright orange for utility vehicles :P
12:04:58  <andythenorth> :P
12:05:13  <andythenorth> I can just test now
12:05:18  <Wolf01> Meh... it's not really hot today, maybe 28-30°C, but there's a fucking mist!
12:05:44  <Samu> The Tualatin-based Pentium III had shown superior performance compared to the fastest Willamette-based Pentium 4, and even the Thunderbird-based Athlons
12:05:52  <Samu> now those pentium 4 results make more sense
12:05:56  <Samu> thx wikipedia
12:08:08  <andythenorth> hmm
12:08:17  <andythenorth> hax using a ‘TARP’ cargo label?
12:08:23  <andythenorth> or do it ‘properly’ :P
12:08:49  <Flygon_> Hell, Pentium IIIs were the basis for the Core series
12:08:55  <Flygon_> And thus the i series
12:09:01  <Flygon_> P4 was just... bad
12:09:03  *** Flygon_ is now known as Flygon
12:11:33  <Samu> I see, I was wondering why celeron at 1000 MHz was getting 215,931s, but pentium 4 at 2000 was getting 188,211s, not even half
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12:20:14  <Flygon> I have zero idea why they ever bothered with P4
12:20:21  <Flygon> It was a trainwreck from the very beginning
12:20:42  <Flygon> And it was obvious to everyone that it was physically impossible to gigahertz your way out of speed inefficiencies
12:20:42  <sim-al2> The CPU?
12:20:47  <Flygon> Yeah
12:21:02  <sim-al2> Oh, but I guess they thought they could do it when they started
12:22:45  <andythenorth> hmm
12:22:53  <andythenorth> maybe for generic cargo I should use a 2CC tarp
12:23:02  <andythenorth> and player can choose colour :P
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12:25:01  <Samu> they say it's 31ºC here, but my room is at 29,2ºC
12:27:44  <MonkeyDrone> room temps should belower
12:27:52  <MonkeyDrone> good insulation on the walls
12:27:55  <Samu>
12:28:02  <MonkeyDrone> but don't worry, given time it will heat up ;p
12:28:23  <MonkeyDrone> andythenorth, it is always nice when players can chose colors :D
12:30:20  <Wolf01> If only it would be possible to set a different colour for each consist
12:30:24  <Wolf01> or group
12:30:48  <Wolf01> Just group would be enough
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12:35:23  <andythenorth> 'patch for that’
12:35:51  <Wolf01> NotRoadTypes first
12:36:01  <andythenorth> yair
12:36:09  <andythenorth> shout when you have a patch to test
12:36:09  <andythenorth> :P
12:36:13  <andythenorth> or a repo
12:37:04  <andythenorth> grey gravel for unknown bulk cargos?
12:37:10  <andythenorth> or I have to stick a tarp over?
12:37:15  * andythenorth would rather not :P
12:51:16  <andythenorth> maybe someone could find all the bulk cargos that miss graphics in Road Hog? o_O
12:52:42  <andythenorth> known:
12:53:54  <andythenorth> known cargo labels...
12:58:51  * andythenorth will go shopping, and hope some elves sort this out :P
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13:34:09  <MonkeyDrone> hey guys, any idea on how to change a variable like distribution_pax on a running server in ottd?
13:38:01  <MonkeyDrone> figured it out
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13:40:18  <Samu> 2044, 2016
13:40:34  <Samu> 7 years to reach 2051 for otviai
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13:50:12  <drac_boy> hi
13:50:14  <drac_boy> been a while :)
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13:51:38  <drac_boy> hi wormnest .. any good weather in netherland?
13:53:00  <Wormnest> hi drac_boy the weather isnÂŽt too bad here maybe a little bit too warm
13:53:31  <drac_boy> heh guess we two have it similar then .. I'm in east canada
13:55:06  <drac_boy> up to anything atm or just a lazy day?
13:55:06  <Wormnest> nice :)
13:55:50  <Wormnest> ehh ntm running another test run of nonocab to see if thereÂŽs any more problems I need to fix
13:55:53  <Rubidium> depends on how east in Canada you are, I guess ;)
13:55:59  <Alberth>  <-- bulk cargoes for andythenorth
13:56:59  * Rubidium also wonders where "east Canada" starts
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14:02:01  <drac_boy> have fun with that debugging then wormnest :)
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14:02:24  <drac_boy> I'm still very slowly working on a small grf set .. otherwise not too much else to say
14:02:44  * drac_boy on a note is looking to order a few oversea rail books in late august or so
14:03:21  <drac_boy> one of them should be interesting .. its re L D Porta and his steam locomotive developments
14:08:04  <Wormnest> thanks and good luck with finishing your NewGRF
14:09:13  <drac_boy> np
14:16:26  <drac_boy> interesting list alberth
14:17:07  <Alberth> it is?
14:18:05  <Alberth> just two lists merged after removing the non-bulk cargoes
14:29:51  <drac_boy> anyway going off for a bit now..might be back later tho ;)
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15:07:05  <Alberth> (15:55:59) Alberth:  <-- bulk cargoes for andythenorth
15:09:50  <andythenorth> Alberth: thanks :)
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15:11:46  <Alberth> some are obsolete, not sure if you wanted them
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15:16:07  <andythenorth> I took the simple solution, I banned most of them from dump trucks
15:16:31  <Alberth> :)
15:18:18  <andythenorth> I could provide recolouring if someone worked out the colours to use
15:19:07  <andythenorth> some of them should be covered cargos anyway, not for dump trucks
15:26:03  <Alberth> nuts doesn't have colours?
15:26:28  <Alberth> although some are, euhm, "interesting" :)
15:27:20  <Alberth> I like that, as it makes it very obvious what cargo is being carried, but not everybody likes that
15:27:40  <andythenorth> I am sticking to ‘realism’ for cargos :)
15:27:51  <andythenorth> parameter: cartoon mode
15:29:08  <V453000> today I am working on something so retrded that I need the windows magnified ._.
15:29:25  <V453000> NUTS has CC color stripes and wagon base colours to identify cargoes
15:29:39  <V453000> some wagons have no CC though, yes ... but that is rare
15:30:12  <Alberth> no magnify application in windows?
15:30:53  <V453000> that's what I am using
15:30:59  <V453000> ah typo
15:31:04  <V453000> I meant magnifier :)
15:31:54  * andythenorth will explain the unsupported cargos as ‘gameplay’ reasons
15:32:08  <andythenorth> actually I can’t be arsed to pick 6 colours from the palette for them
15:32:32  <V453000>
15:33:50  <andythenorth> what does all mean? :)
15:34:35  <V453000> outer color is wagon
15:34:38  <V453000> inner color is cargo
15:35:03  <V453000> first image is all cargoes available (never seen together), other images are possible configurations
15:35:29  <V453000> I made this for myself so I could quickly get colours for all the possible variants, yet have unique sets of colours for all things
15:36:07  <V453000> PART hoppers are going to only have about 5 models, all just for wagon variety like self discharging hoppers, normal hoppers, some extra large hoppers, ... and cargoes will be done by recolour
15:36:14  <V453000> it's hugely file size saving, and future proof
15:36:22  <Samu> - rip AMD
15:36:30  <V453000> in case you get some stupid idea that you want 10 new cargoes for FIRS, I just add more recolour rules for them
15:36:32  <V453000> no new sprites
15:36:34  <Samu> then again... 00
15:36:50  <V453000> where if I want to update NUTS to work with new cargoes, I would shit myself sooner
15:37:08  <V453000> I am probably going to buy the new titan X yeah
15:39:35  <V453000> but not reference card, some aftermarket like from evga
15:39:50  * andythenorth makes offer
15:40:17  <V453000> and the rx 480 can probably hold it's own vs. gtx 1060
15:40:17  * andythenorth will add bulk cargos if someone provides the palette indexes for the remap
15:40:17  <andythenorth> :P
15:40:34  <V453000> andythenorth: I am going to do that sooner or later anyway
15:40:39  <V453000> if you want to wait, it shall be done
15:40:42  <Samu> rx 480 loses to gtx 1060
15:40:47  <andythenorth> yours won’t be super-realism V453000 :P
15:40:52  <V453000> ok Samu :D
15:40:59  <V453000> andythenorth: the cargo itself kind of is
15:41:03  <Samu> only beats it with performance/price category
15:41:05  <andythenorth> I demand you actually make real fertiliser and crap
15:41:20  <V453000> real fertiliser = brown shit?
15:41:27  <V453000> that's what I mean Samu
15:41:30  <andythenorth> I have 14 remaps already, but got bored of counting with my fingers on the palette in photoshop
15:41:37  <V453000> XD
15:43:15  <V453000> what does real fertiliser look like?
15:43:17  <V453000> white shit?
15:43:18  <V453000> brown shit?
15:43:37  <V453000>
15:43:39  <V453000> blue shit is legit
15:43:57  <V453000>
15:45:01  <Samu> poor amd, they can never win at anything anymore now
15:46:31  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd probably go with grey, but it should be transported in covered wagons anyway
15:46:54  <V453000> yeah should would might
15:46:55  <andythenorth> yair
15:47:26  <V453000> it's nice if players can see if the wagon is full or empty, and of which cargo
15:47:35  <andythenorth> +0.7
15:47:59  <andythenorth> for open wagons, I would like each cargo to be unique
15:48:08  <andythenorth> that is at least hard, if not ~impossible :P
15:48:22  <andythenorth> if you use a covered hopper, no cargo sprites for you
15:48:58  <Eddi|zuHause> well, you could see it while loading, and close the hopper during travelling
15:50:35  <V453000> while it's loading you have a lot of other ways to identify it, like station sprites/name etc
15:50:39  <V453000> on the tracks you don't
15:50:44  <V453000> that's the most important place
15:51:05  <V453000> BUT, PART is going to have some boxcars, too
15:51:09  <Eddi|zuHause> make a coloured stripe along the wagon that changes on refit
15:51:17  <V453000> they will be unique so you know what is there, but still
15:51:30  <V453000> well, coloured stripe doesn't really tell what's inside
15:51:35  <Eddi|zuHause> it won't show empty or full
15:51:48  <Eddi|zuHause> but it makes the cargo easily recognizable
15:52:15  <Eddi|zuHause> and if you don't know in which direction your full and empty vehicles are travelling, you probably have different problems :p
15:52:21  <V453000> to some degree, sure yes
15:52:35  <V453000> they can be going in many various directions
15:52:54  <V453000> like when you have 4 different food plants supplying 20 cities
15:52:57  <Eddi|zuHause> then you can still click on it to find out if it's full or empty
15:53:23  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't really understand why that's a problem that needs to be solved
15:53:38  <V453000> it's not game breaking, but it is extremely convenient to see
15:53:45  <V453000> on first sight, no clicking
15:53:56  <Eddi|zuHause> you could have the empty wagons run open
15:54:08  <Eddi|zuHause> and only close the full ones
15:54:12  <V453000> yes, indeed
15:54:19  <V453000> the full ones are the only problem, really
15:56:39  * andythenorth has tankers that recolour for cargo
15:56:46  <andythenorth> but not empty/full
15:56:53  <andythenorth> because eh, don’t care about that :)
15:57:19  <Eddi|zuHause> exactly.
15:57:50  <V453000> sure, just realism > stylized graphics/gameplay
15:57:54  <V453000> for me it's the opposite
16:01:24  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: well, the optimization problem here is to find stylized graphics without sacrificing too much realism
16:01:45  <V453000> obviously
16:01:51  <andythenorth> I am repainting trams, using more of the good sprites and killing the bad sprites
16:01:57  <andythenorth> but they now look a bit ‘same'
16:02:00  <V453000> speaking of stylized graphics, I probably decided today that BRIX will not be white
16:02:03  <V453000> probably green
16:02:44  <Samu> bullying, huh?
16:03:19  <andythenorth> V453000: good call
16:04:08  <Samu>
16:04:40  <Samu> lesson learned: don't bully
16:05:40  <V453000> andythenorth: I got to the conclusion when trying to make snow XD
16:05:44  <andythenorth> ha ha
16:05:44  <V453000> I had some doubts previously
16:05:45  <V453000> but yeah
16:07:34  <V453000> it probably still classifies as stylized as fuck though :P
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16:09:42  <V453000>
16:11:19  <andythenorth> hurgh
16:11:27  * andythenorth ponders CC crap
16:11:32  <andythenorth> when to use what
16:27:35  <NGC3982>
16:28:38  <ST2> that's a Pun (ninghead) xD
16:30:58  <NGC3982> :)
16:34:39  <Eddi|zuHause> i've seen worse messes
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16:44:31  <Wolf01> andythenorth, do you have any suggestion about the repository? I have one slow, unreliable, home-based, svn server which I use for this kind of stuff
16:45:09  <andythenorth> can we put it on coop?
16:45:13  <andythenorth> dunno
16:45:23  <andythenorth> you want git or hg?
16:45:46  <Wolf01> never used hg, and git on readonly
16:47:38  <MonkeyDrone> for private repositories, bitbucket works
16:47:43  <MonkeyDrone> unlimited private repos :D
16:48:10  <Wolf01> don't need to be private, we aren't kids
16:48:23  <MonkeyDrone> well github it is then
16:48:24  <Wolf01> and the game is open source :P
16:49:05  <MonkeyDrone> it sure is :P well i was just throwing it out there
16:49:29  <MonkeyDrone> why not use github and use your own svn server? unless you got raid on it, it's quiet risky
16:58:11  <andythenorth> Wolf01: setting up a repo was actually the major thing that put me off starting a ‘proper’ patch :P
16:59:15  <andythenorth> I could try and make one on devzone, but I always do it wrong
16:59:24  <andythenorth> also I don’t really like hg
16:59:36  <Wolf01> yeah, too many things to configure and keep in sync.. at least if you want to do things in the right way
17:00:57  <andythenorth> I have an account on bitbucket
17:01:02  <andythenorth> or we could use github
17:01:10  <andythenorth> probably just use github? :P
17:01:23  <Wolf01> I automated the creation of svn repos on linux at work, but I don't have any linux here
17:01:34  <andythenorth> also I can’t svn
17:01:55  <Wolf01> github is fair, I don't know how to use it but I'll learn :P
17:02:32  <Wolf01> btw, got to go, I'll come back in 2 hours
17:05:21  <andythenorth> k
17:28:00  <andythenorth>
18:00:02  <Alberth> svn is mostly checkout once, commit, and update for getting updates from the other devs, much simpler than the distributed VCSes
18:00:18  <V453000>
18:00:42  <V453000> trees will have colours too
18:00:53  <Alberth> tasty brix!
18:01:16  <Alberth> and nice link to the train track build train too :)
18:10:42  <Samu> 2048, 2018
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18:44:07  <Wolf01> brix \o/
18:44:46  <Wolf01> hype for 3GB grf pack for OTTD
18:45:21  <V453000> 50MB Wolf01
18:45:22  <V453000> <3
18:46:09  <Wolf01> :D
18:46:52  <V453000> it will grow a bit
18:46:59  <V453000> but still, filesize pretty good so far
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18:47:41  <Wolf01> I'll wait for the rail set then :>
18:48:15  <Wolf01> 55% humidity :E
18:48:18  <V453000> that will take a while
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18:49:12  <Wolf01> I was drowning outside, I made it to home just in time
18:50:13  *** Klanticus [~quassel@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:59:31  <MonkeyDrone> 55% , damn....
18:59:55  <MonkeyDrone> 80% :)
19:00:40  <MonkeyDrone>
19:01:16  <MonkeyDrone> 90% max :D woooooooooooooo, i was outsidejogging for 1.5 hours. damn clothes got heavy really wellby the end of it
19:05:59  <Wolf01> I managed to forgot to compress the logs... 14GB of plain text logs since 2013
19:06:53  <Wolf01> right now is 1GB->3MB
19:06:55  <frosch123> does not sound like irc logs :p
19:07:50  <Wolf01> no, the webserver ones, but I should take care even for irc logs... I have 12 years of logs
19:10:32  <Wolf01> pfff I tried again to scroll the screenshot
19:12:21  <andythenorth> Wolf01: ^ repo link above
19:12:26  <andythenorth> I put openttd in it :P
19:12:29  <Wolf01> yeah, noticed it :P
19:12:47  <Wolf01> I need to understand how git works now :D
19:14:02  <MonkeyDrone> no one understand git xD
19:14:43  <MonkeyDrone> well that's what my brother says, he's been using it for years :P
19:18:05  <Wolf01> could I use both svn and git on the same working copy?
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19:22:00  <Alberth>
19:22:20  <Alberth> no idea if it does anything useful :)
19:22:46  <Alberth> I tried hg with a git repo, and that failed hopelessly
19:23:00  <Alberth> but hg is then a lot more complicated than svn
19:23:47  <Wolf01> oh, yeah, I forgot I can use svn with git too
19:24:16  <Wolf01> need to relocate then
19:25:21  <Alberth> I'd check out a new working copy :p
19:25:45  <Alberth> hmm, may be somewhat large
19:25:50  <Wolf01> yeah, better do it
19:27:15  <Alberth> you could copy the working copy locally, and then switch one of them
19:29:32  <Wolf01> nah, it bitches that the working copy has different uuid
19:30:42  <Wolf01> I'll checkout directly from github so it shuts up
19:40:53  <Wolf01> andy, did you forget to add some resource files? the game exits with "failed to find a sounds set"
19:43:03  <Alberth> openttd.cfg from the repo?
19:45:01  <Wolf01> maybe, but I can't find it in the working copy, so it should be using the one in the user folder
19:45:28  <Wolf01> (my ottd installation has it's own one, because it's portable)
19:47:26  <Wolf01> it has soundsset = "NoSound"
19:48:25  <Rubidium> the repository misses files
19:49:01  <Wolf01> the cat may have eat them
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19:56:13  <andythenorth> Wolf01: I just cloned the openttd repo, copied everything, and pushed it
19:56:58  <Wolf01> no clue
19:57:30  <Wolf01> I just checked out, changed the project configuration to include libs etc and compiled
19:57:52  <V453000> andythenorth:
19:59:28  <andythenorth> V453000: your iron ore mine sucks :P
19:59:33  <andythenorth> crap
19:59:35  <V453000> XD
20:00:00  <V453000> it's copied from your iron ore mine isn't it
20:00:18  <andythenorth> yeah
20:00:22  <andythenorth> mine’s crap too
20:01:09  <Wolf01> factorio time... I have a rocket to build
20:01:43  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: colour is fine, but needs some texture...
20:01:44  <V453000> Wolf01: just one?
20:01:51  <Wolf01> yes, one
20:01:52  <V453000> no texture for you
20:02:10  <V453000> I like it ultra clean
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20:03:03  <Alberth> transparent texture would work
20:03:15  <Alberth> or a completely green one
20:03:27  <Alberth> just 1x1 pixel :p
20:03:34  <V453000> wat
20:04:14  <Alberth> texture gets stretched over the entire area right?
20:04:27  <V453000> it can
20:04:40  <Alberth> so one green pixel would be enough to cover it all
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20:04:56  <V453000> not exactly, the slopes are actually each different color
20:04:59  <V453000> it is slightly visible
20:05:22  <V453000> it's just pushing the contrast between hills to make it easier to orientate in
20:05:34  <V453000> it might be a bit too much
20:06:05  <Alberth> ah, good point
20:06:18  <V453000> but they do come from 1 colour node
20:06:30  <V453000> so if you replaced that node with a texture, it would automatically re-apply the contrast
20:06:32  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: well i was not REALLY expecting you to follow my suggestion :p
20:06:42  <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: good
20:06:49  <V453000> go draw CETS. :>
20:08:58  <Alberth> hmm, too much? for me, from the hole near the NW edge of the lake all the way to the top looks like vertical walls to me
20:09:36  <Alberth> maybe it's the lack of stuff on the edges?
20:09:56  <V453000> idk :)
20:10:45  <Alberth> ,maybe not enough contrast between the sun-facing and non-sub facing sides?
20:11:17  <V453000> I think there is shitload of contrast already
20:11:40  <Alberth> at the SE side of the lake definitely
20:12:10  <andythenorth> needs beaches
20:12:12  <andythenorth> is the problem
20:12:16  <andythenorth> landscape is fine
20:12:24  <V453000> h8 biches
20:12:43  <Alberth> biches on the beaches!
20:14:10  <Wolf01> cluster grenades hailstorm, what a wonderful weapon, is even more effective than the ion cannon mod
20:14:15  <andythenorth> meh
20:14:16  <andythenorth> 2CC
20:14:26  <Samu> 2050, 2019
20:14:30  <Samu> last year for otviai
20:15:07  <andythenorth> I have 2CC-ed a tram
20:15:09  <Eddi|zuHause> has milek7 requested more company colours yet? :p
20:15:23  <andythenorth> and now I’ll have to do all of that type of tram in 2CC :P
20:15:24  <andythenorth> and the trucks
20:16:43  <andythenorth> Road Hog is such a classic failed project
20:17:05  <V453000> wat
20:17:56  <andythenorth> I set simple goal, like ‘finish 6 trams'
20:18:02  <andythenorth> and that means redrawing about 20 trams :P
20:18:29  <andythenorth> making some better highlights lameness in the rest :P
20:19:03  <Eddi|zuHause> isn't that how the world works nowadays? "kill 6 terrorists", ignoring the fact that you create 20 new terrorists that way
20:19:56  <andythenorth> perhaps
20:20:40  <V453000> smells like politics
20:21:25  <V453000> allahu akbar anus?
20:21:30  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: it's just like (software) bugs or features
20:26:05  <V453000> oh just read about machete shit in germany
20:26:07  <V453000> :(
20:27:41  <Wolf01> yes, it's getting worse every day...
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20:28:29  <Wolf01> but not only because IS/religion/immigrants, even normal people are overreacting for little things
20:29:07  <V453000> well yeah because the politicians are doing nothing
20:29:31  <V453000> let's invite everybody to europe, we don't even need passport controls, "we can make it"
20:29:33  <Rubidium> they are doing nothing?
20:29:54  <V453000> it's so much easier to say than actually set up proper border control
20:30:06  <Rubidium> they're a major cause of the fear
20:30:16  <Eddi|zuHause> wtf is a passport control going to do? it's not going to say "terrorist" in there...
20:30:44  <V453000> well, what do you know, but in general letting anybody in your country/union is not a great idea
20:31:04  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe, but keeping them out is an even worse idea...
20:31:22  <V453000> how?
20:31:35  <Eddi|zuHause> because that's how 800 people drown in the sea, creating resentments in their 15000 relatives
20:31:50  <Eddi|zuHause> out of those 15000, 20 might become terrorists
20:31:54  <V453000> well why did they travel on the sea then?
20:32:14  <V453000> if they go illegally to cross a border over sea, then?
20:32:33  <Eddi|zuHause> how did something being illegal ever stop anyone?
20:32:49  <V453000> well then with that point we can discuss about anything :D
20:33:14  <Eddi|zuHause> if you make drugs illegal, the drugs don't disappear. if you make homosexuality illegal, the homosexuals don't disappear, ...
20:33:33  <V453000> I am not saying they should disappear, I do not even say we should not accept them, but in a controlled, clear way
20:33:51  <V453000> not let 2 million people come, nobody knows how many, nobody knows where from, nobody knows anything
20:34:08  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. but there won't be a controlled clear way, as long as everybody gets sidetracked by an "all or nothing" discussion
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20:34:39  <Alberth> not that you'd ever get agreement on a number
20:34:41  <V453000> well in France it's probably already too late and the shit will spread so beating dead horse
20:34:51  <Alberth> or you couldclose the border if you reached it
20:35:22  <Eddi|zuHause> the fact that it has nothing to do with the 2 million who came last year is totally disappearing. the guy in france was in the country for decades
20:35:35  <andythenorth> France is years of colonial history
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20:35:45  <Eddi|zuHause> no amount of passport controls would have stopped him
20:35:52  <andythenorth> including brutal civil war in its mediterranean colonies
20:35:53  <V453000> you should close the border immediately, create refuge camps for them in neutral area, solve security shit, open border as decided
20:35:56  <Samu> remove the internet from europe
20:36:00  <Samu> problem solve!
20:36:13  <Eddi|zuHause> there is no such thing as a neutral area
20:36:21  <V453000> well then near the border you get the point
20:36:36  <ST2> nah nah, remove Samu's internet - AMD and Nvidia will tank ^^
20:36:40  <Eddi|zuHause> and concentrating hundreds of thousands into a few single camps is only going to make it worse
20:36:52  <ST2> thank*
20:37:00  <V453000> do they run away from war or not
20:37:04  <V453000> peaceful camp should be ok
20:37:47  <Eddi|zuHause> how is a camp with a hundred thousand people who have nothing to do all day filled with people from opposing factions ever going to be "peaceful"
20:38:02  <Rubidium> so Nice... guy was in France since 2005, immigrated via normal channels. Paris of november last year... most from France and Belgium (as in born there)
20:38:28  <V453000> well if they aren't peaceful then let them fight it out wherever they want but not in our cities
20:38:29  <Rubidium> so, in my opinion the best way to prevent terrorism in Europe is to kick all the Europeans out
20:38:40  <V453000> also, I don't get how can islam not be prohibited the same way as nazis
20:39:04  <sim-al2> V, try to ban Christainity and see what happens
20:39:23  <V453000> I am not banning it in their countries, in ours at least
20:39:31  <Eddi|zuHause> because islam is not a racist organization that organized a mass murder of millions of people?
20:39:42  <andythenorth> is there a new version of godwin? o_O
20:39:56  <V453000> and in the last years there hasn't been many christian warriors exploding in train stations etc afaik
20:40:02  <V453000> it's not Eddi|zuHause ?
20:40:07  <V453000> well then ok
20:40:26  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: it might as well flare up again in northern ireland... it's not that long ago and tensions are still high
20:40:40  <andythenorth> all through my childhood catholics were blowing up protestants and protestants were blowing up catholics
20:40:41  <Rubidium> V453000: the Christians did it a few hundred years ago on a much more massive scale
20:40:52  <V453000> yes Rubidium, hundred years ago
20:41:14  <V453000> I'm not saying christianity has no bad things, it has shitloads
20:41:16  <Rubidium> V453000: you think people lost their "animal instincts" since then?
20:41:23  <andythenorth> there are about 2.7m muslims in UK, and about 10 have commited terrorist acts on UK soil
20:42:31  <Rubidium> andythenorth: and Northern Irelanders?
20:42:35  <Eddi|zuHause> last information i have is around 5% muslims in germany
20:43:13  <V453000> France is like 10%? more?
20:43:17  <Eddi|zuHause> the strange thing is, anti-foreigner and anti-muslim resentments are highest in the areas that have the fewest foreigners and muslims
20:43:20  <andythenorth> Rubidium I didn’t look it up
20:43:45  <Eddi|zuHause> so as far as i can tell, the solution is to get more muslims
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20:43:55  <andythenorth> silly debate, ends up arguing for ‘good’ and ‘bad’ terrorists :P
20:43:57  * andythenorth back to trams
20:44:01  <Eddi|zuHause> to a point where it's a common daily sight
20:44:17  <V453000> yeah Eddi|zuHause that totally works in France XD
20:44:59  <Eddi|zuHause> it totally doesn't work in france because of ghetto-ization, i.e. the individual groups stay on their own, and don't mix
20:45:18  <Wolf01> I just noticed that biters see me as an illegal alien terrorist which blows up things :(
20:45:23  <V453000> it's not like multicultural integration works any different anywhere else
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20:46:10  <Rubidium> V453000: that's the point a bit, the integration in France (and Belgium) is kinda failing
20:46:18  <Eddi|zuHause> well, yeah, it's not like the european countries are fundamentally different from each other, so the problems will be very similar throughout
20:46:53  <V453000> well it's not like the muslims want to integrate, they just shut up until they have majority in an area
20:47:05  <Eddi|zuHause> but still, the key point is this mixing in with the population that is already there. that is the real problem that needs to be solved
20:47:48  <Rubidium> V453000: weird, the muslims I know are fairly well integrated; okay, they don't go to church on Sunday, but neither do I...
20:48:20  <V453000> of course, you probably don't go to work in a nogo zone or muslim ghetto
20:49:43  <Rubidium> true, though I live in the neighbourhood with most crime (of 2014 in the Netherlands)
20:49:43  <Wolf01> they don't go to church because they go to the mousquee
20:50:43  <Rubidium> and the mosque is well.. 400-500 meters from here
20:51:05  <V453000> nice so about 500 metres from you someone might be saying kill the infidels? :P
20:52:10  <Rubidium> unlikely, but yeah... but so could they in the church
20:52:52  <Rubidium> after all, it's all in the explanation of (roughly) the same story
20:53:27  <V453000> idk I might be racist but I don't feel like tolerating islam
20:53:29  <V453000> amen
20:54:13  <Rubidium> ah well, I can't stand fundamentalists of basically any religion
20:55:09  <V453000> point
20:59:04  <Eddi|zuHause> even non-religious fundamentalists
20:59:39  <Eddi|zuHause> like fundamental capitalists. or fundamental feminists.
21:00:05  <andythenorth> Richard Stallman
21:00:18  <Eddi|zuHause> fundamental freesoftwareist?
21:03:21  <andythenorth> so
21:03:31  <andythenorth> livestock wagons are grey in Iron Horse
21:03:42  <andythenorth> but livestock trucks are 2CC in Road Hog
21:03:52  * andythenorth wants consistency
21:03:54  <andythenorth> grey or 2CC?
21:04:12  <V453000> 1CC and use 2nd CC for cargo stuff
21:04:16  <V453000> like containers etc
21:04:33  <Eddi|zuHause> can't you just recolour the grey?
21:04:41  <andythenorth> yes
21:04:44  <V453000> different amount of shades likely
21:04:49  <andythenorth> not 50
21:04:57  <andythenorth> but is grey better than 2CC?
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21:05:05  <andythenorth> mostly I care that things are fast to find in buy menu
21:05:10  <andythenorth> so differentiation is good
21:05:48  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't mind the grey, but a bit of 2nd CC is nice as wel
21:05:51  <Eddi|zuHause> l
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21:17:13  <andythenorth> maybe matching IH and RH is a slavish consistency
21:17:17  * andythenorth might not bother
21:19:17  <Samu> dec 2050, last month
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21:26:45  <andythenorth> oops
21:26:49  <andythenorth> bedtime
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21:28:24  <Samu> finished!
21:29:55  <Samu> next trio
21:30:07  <Samu> terron !
21:32:38  <Samu> just started original/npf/yapf terron
21:32:47  <Samu> ships
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23:01:19  <drac_boy> if theres anyone from uk here...I have to ask but how common did you think the gresley (I believe that it was his?) 3-cylinder assembly was? I can't exactly recall seeing many locomotives with single center cylinder photo-wise
23:01:46  <drac_boy> I do recall seeing quite a number of earlier 4-cylinder steam but thats a different matter tho
23:21:05  <Eddi|zuHause> is there not a wikipedia page on every engine design that ever existed, including the number of units produced?
23:21:36  <Wolf01> 'night
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