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00:01:16 <Wolf01> Biologists are running like mad because they can't cope with the decaying plants, the strange thing is that at the beginning I had 2 of them keeping the entire bio-sphere, now that I have 25 of them they can't keep 3 bio-spheres 00:04:04 <Samu> all the current 8 running aircraft AIs are being successful 00:04:57 <Samu> NoCAB, DictatorAI, CluelessPlus, NoNoCAB, Chopper, Rythorn Airline AI, SimpleAI and AdmiralAI 00:05:22 <Samu> Chopper however is stuck, but still his currently helis are doing good 00:05:49 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds like things are not getting where they need to be 00:20:30 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 00:29:09 <Samu> path of exile patch, a little big 00:32:12 <Wolf01> 'night 00:32:14 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 00:52:15 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6D4F6.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:00:27 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@localhost] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:10:10 *** Tirili [~Tirili@HSI-KBW-078-042-170-158.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:37:56 *** ConductorCat [~Conductor@209.159.178.61] has joined #openttd 01:44:56 *** gelignite_ [~gelignite@x4db549d8.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 01:52:06 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4db5d94f.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:55:36 *** ConductorCat [~Conductor@209.159.178.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:41:55 *** alask0ud [~theSuperd@181.169.232.64] has joined #openttd 02:42:18 *** gelignite_ [~gelignite@x4db549d8.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta] 02:43:00 <ElleKitty> *waves waves to alask0ud!* Nice to have you here! 02:44:20 <alask0ud> Even nicer to have such welcome :') 02:54:16 *** ConductorCat [~Conductor@209.159.178.61] has joined #openttd 03:03:53 *** ConductCat [~Conductor@209.159.178.61] has joined #openttd 03:04:11 *** ConductorCat [~Conductor@209.159.178.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:43:27 *** CompuDesktop is now known as Compu 03:43:32 *** Compu [~Compu@cpe-67-255-36-150.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FjWe31S_0g] 03:43:59 *** Compu [~Compu@cpe-67-255-36-150.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 05:29:28 <MonkeyDrone> allo 05:29:37 <MonkeyDrone> wassup people in da house! 05:37:53 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 05:37:56 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 06:29:37 *** alask0ud [~theSuperd@181.169.232.64] has quit [Quit: Relax, its only ONES and ZEROS!] 06:55:00 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@y32.ip1.anvianet.fi] has joined #openttd 06:57:43 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd 07:41:44 *** keoz [~keikoz@pha75-1-81-57-54-15.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 08:21:40 *** Progman [~progman@p57A191F3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 08:53:25 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-176-199-6-90.hsi06.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #openttd 09:02:41 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host213-233-dynamic.245-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 09:03:42 <Wolf01> o/ 09:06:27 <Alberth> o/ 09:20:35 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 09:20:41 *** Elle_ [~Elle@178-223-11-30.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #openttd 09:21:11 <Wolf01> andy o/ 09:21:20 <andythenorth> o/ 09:26:21 *** ElleKitty [~Elle@79-101-252-45.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:28:31 *** Elle_ is now known as ElleKitty 09:40:36 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po1-84-91-250-188.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd 09:40:44 <Samu> nocab finally took too long to save, restarting 09:41:14 *** Elle_ [~Elle@79-101-168-136.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #openttd 09:45:15 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-176-199-6-90.hsi06.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 09:46:41 *** ElleKitty [~Elle@178-223-11-30.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:48:47 <andythenorth> Wolf01: the Arocs is a lot more performant (and fun) with a simple manual pneumatic pump 09:49:06 <andythenorth> I tried with an airtank also, but it just adds latency 09:49:47 <Wolf01> You need a double pump for the airtank 09:51:34 <andythenorth> the motorised pump was crap in the air tech claw rig 09:51:39 <andythenorth> and 25 years later, no better 09:51:41 *** Elle_ is now known as ElleKitty 10:00:17 <Wolf01> I'm thinking to convert even the new Volvo wheeled excavator to linear pistons, the arm is almost the same as the crawler claw one 10:08:18 *** Amix [~Amix2@239.65.45.31.customer.cdi.no] has joined #openttd 10:08:22 <Amix> hi there 10:09:03 <Amix> where do I eventualy find v0.3.3 of OpenTTD for Windows and OSX? 10:09:48 <Amix> I am writing an crossplatform article etc 10:09:55 <Amix> http://aminet.net/search?query=OpenTTD 10:10:22 <Amix> the latest AmigaOS 68k version of the game that came out is v0.3.3 10:10:42 <Amix> for AmigaOS 4.x its v0.4.7 it seems 10:11:07 <Amix> MorphOS v0.6.3 10:11:55 *** keoz [~keikoz@pha75-1-81-57-54-15.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: keoz] 10:12:02 <Amix> http://www.morphos-files.net/find.php?find=OpenTTD 10:13:09 <Amix> Haiku v1.3.3-1 10:13:12 <Amix> https://depot.haiku-os.org/multipage?natlangcode=en&repos=haikuports&arch=x86_gcc2&viewcrttyp=FEATURED&pkgcat=audio&srchexpr=openttd 10:13:48 <Wolf01> http://ftp.snt.utwente.nl/pub/games/openttd/binaries/releases/index.html 10:15:16 <Amix> ok.. amigaos 68k version is not there but on aminet only it seems 10:15:35 <Amix> same with amigaos 4.x ppc 10:17:02 <Amix> with vampire for classic amiga now out for A600, soon for A500, A2000 and A1200.. OpenTTD will work nicely on these machines also :) 10:18:44 <Wolf01> andy, how could we work with the repository? A branch for each single feature just to keep patches which can apply to clean trunk and our trunk with all the patches applied? 10:21:10 <Amix> you should make a system like Amiga Racer got 10:21:17 <Amix> really 10:22:26 <Amix> Amiga Racer live update in the game works for all versions. AmigaOS 4, MorphOS, Raspbian, Windows, MacOSX etc.. even if the game is simple, the live update function is brilliant 10:22:53 <Amix> just throwing out ideas 10:27:07 <Wolf01> Also could you please just add the "bin" folder (leaving out the lang folder) to the repository? So we can fix the resources problem :P 10:28:11 <Wolf01> I would do it by myself, but I don't have any clue on how github works, I always used it in readonly mode 10:45:23 <Alberth> if you use git locally, github doesn't do anything, but making a nice web interface and storing the repo 10:51:43 *** Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 10:53:16 <Wolf01> I use it with svn, so I don't even know if I can commit 10:53:52 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6BF91.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 11:08:16 *** zeknurn [~sup@host-85-30-181-191.sydskane.nu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:09:57 *** zeknurn [~sup@host-85-30-181-191.sydskane.nu] has joined #openttd 11:10:18 <Alberth> ah. I would expect you can (modulo access rights), how else are you going to work with svn in a project? 11:14:33 <andythenorth> Wolf01: feature branches, and master 11:14:54 <andythenorth> possibly a candidate branch, to which feature branches can be merged, before pushing them to master 11:15:07 <andythenorth> we have no QA though, so candidate branch is overkill 11:15:21 <andythenorth> and for this, everything will end up merged with everything else all the time anyway :P 11:15:44 <andythenorth> I need to make a new repo, not broken? 11:15:49 * andythenorth thinks so 11:18:23 <Wolf01> If you want to make a new clean repo you can do it, I don't have changes (only the project includes) 11:18:38 * andythenorth does it 11:34:28 *** Amix [~Amix2@239.65.45.31.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:42:48 <andythenorth> importing openttd repo to github 11:42:50 <andythenorth> takes a while 11:43:03 <Wolf01> :) 11:48:45 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw2-54f816-197.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 12:02:07 <andythenorth> Wolf01: https://github.com/andythenorth/NotRoadTypes/import 12:02:54 <andythenorth> dunno if it works yet :) 12:04:30 <Wolf01> Let's check it out 12:06:50 <Samu> http://imgur.com/a/uszeP - cluelessplus upgading process is really weird 12:07:06 <Samu> it's slow, it affects profits 12:07:19 <Samu> it has a dedicated airport just for it 12:07:35 <Samu> the airport is just too limited 12:11:02 <Wolf01> Now it works 12:11:18 * Wolf01 checkouts 12:13:35 <andythenorth> Wolf01: builds and runs for me 12:15:44 <Wolf01> Same 12:15:57 <Wolf01> So... we could start working :P 12:16:08 <andythenorth> I am checking you have commit rights on the repo 12:16:34 <andythenorth> I made a âdevâ branch which we can merge feature branches into when needed 12:16:57 <andythenorth> Wolf01: have you got a github user? 12:17:07 <Wolf01> Yes, I do 12:17:15 <Wolf01> Wolfolo 12:17:41 <andythenorth> added you as collaborator 12:17:59 <Wolf01> Done 12:19:14 <Wolf01> Ok, I would start with a gui refactoring branch 12:19:56 <Wolf01> Just to prepare the soil for the tram split 12:19:59 <andythenorth> ok 12:20:54 <andythenorth> we will need a âlight railâ icon :P 12:20:58 <andythenorth> in TTD original style 12:21:13 <andythenorth> fortunately I can draw a little bit 12:21:17 <Wolf01> :D 12:23:41 <Wolf01> I forked the project, so I think I'll don't mess up your copy if I try to commit something 12:23:50 <andythenorth> ok 12:23:57 <andythenorth> git is hard to mess up tbh 12:24:12 <andythenorth> sometimes it requires reading the manual to get something back as intended 12:24:17 <andythenorth> but otherwise very hard to break 12:24:38 <andythenorth> the easiest way is âpasting commands from stack overflowâ :P 12:24:46 <Wolf01> XD 12:25:58 <Wolf01> Also I like to have more working copies, so I can fiddle with one, make a patch and move the changes to the other one 12:26:36 *** sla_ro|master2 [~sla.ro@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd 12:27:24 <andythenorth> branches, and stash 12:27:34 <andythenorth> but it takes a while to trust git 12:27:44 <andythenorth> especially if youâre coming straight from svn 12:28:47 *** frosch123 [~frosch@00013ce7.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 12:31:46 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@89.136.141.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:38:38 <Wolf01> Shouldn't we put the specs in the wiki page? 12:41:37 <andythenorth> good point 12:42:51 * andythenorth hates wiki formatting :P 12:42:53 <andythenorth> https://github.com/andythenorth/NotRoadTypes/wiki 12:43:01 <andythenorth> will fix :P 12:44:20 <andythenorth> fixed 12:49:31 <Wolf01> good 12:53:02 *** sla_ro|master2 [~sla.ro@89.136.141.100] has quit [] 13:10:29 *** ConductingCat [~Conductor@209.159.178.6] has joined #openttd 13:15:30 <Wolf01> Uh... nice, I forgot how to apply a patch made for trunk to a branch 13:16:45 <frosch123> you need to find the right -p parameter 13:17:04 <frosch123> "-p 0" for svn-diff, "-p 1" for everything else 13:17:19 *** ConductCat [~Conductor@209.159.178.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:17:31 <Wolf01> No, not that, everybody suggests to merge from trunk... but I have a patch file 13:20:17 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd 13:20:27 <andythenorth> just be in the branch 13:21:12 <Wolf01> I think is better if I do multiple checkouts 13:24:04 <Wolf01> I usually work like: checkout root, work in branches, merge to trunk and create tags from there 13:25:53 <Wolf01> Wtf is wrong with tortoise? Trying to patch a working copy suggests that a non vcs folder is better suitable for the patch 13:26:43 <Wolf01> Ok, the patch kept the "trunk" folder, so that's why can't do it 13:28:32 <peter1138> patch -p1 13:29:21 <Wolf01> Yes, I found that, it's the git format, in svn-format it works 13:31:44 <Eddi|zuHause> tortoise was always a bit weird with patches that are not an exact match 13:31:59 <Eddi|zuHause> better use the comman line 13:32:03 <Eddi|zuHause> +d 13:34:44 <andythenorth> svn branches are the ones where it actually creates a new dir for the branch? o_O 13:34:49 * andythenorth has not used it for a while... 13:35:05 <Wolf01> yeah 13:35:14 <andythenorth> howâŠquaint 13:35:18 <peter1138> unless it's git they're all shit 13:36:25 <andythenorth> hg keeps me humble 13:36:27 <andythenorth> much mistakes 13:37:37 <andythenorth> hg probably means âheads grow' 13:37:47 <andythenorth> because every time you want to push, you get a new heads warning 13:37:56 <andythenorth> and always itâs another merge and commit :P 13:38:13 <andythenorth> bbl 13:38:14 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 13:49:16 <Samu> 1966, 2030, 2037, 1987, 2037, 2007, 2003, 1980 13:55:25 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 13:55:28 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 13:56:16 <Wolf01> I think I already made a mistake, I worked directly on the new branch, btw I don't want to make the dev branch dirty with changes which aren't directly related with the core feature 14:02:16 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:07:56 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-157-231.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:13:29 *** ConductingCat [~Conductor@209.159.178.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:43:52 <Wolf01> Why is BUILD_DOCKS the only plural entry? the other are RAIL, ROAD, AIRPORT... since there is only one type of dock I expected the other to be plural :D 14:46:36 <frosch123> maybe to compensate that there is only one type of dock 14:46:45 <frosch123> while there are different station types for the rest 14:56:00 <Wolf01> The VS rename feature is a bit weird... Can't find references of a variable which is declared just some lines above and used in the 3 lines below 14:56:25 <Samu> SimpleAI has the best profits currently 14:57:39 <Wolf01> Switching the search from "current project" to "entire solution (encluding external items)" seem to work 14:57:54 <Wolf01> It's the same document :/ 14:59:16 <Samu> it seems NoCAB does better than NoNoCAB, but i could be wrong 14:59:23 <Samu> will have to wait for 2051 14:59:43 <Alberth> only 35 years from now! 15:05:20 <Wolf01> Error LNK2019 unresolved external symbol "struct Window * __fastcall ShowBuildLtRailToolbar(enum RoadType)" (?ShowBuildLtRailToolbar@@YIPAUWindow@@W4RoadType@@@Z) referenced in function "enum CallBackFunction __fastcall MenuClickBuildLtRail(int)" (?MenuClickBuildLtRail@@YI?AW4CallBackFunction@@H@Z) openttd E:\progetti\OpenTTD\notroadtypes_wolfolo\branches\gui\projects\toolbar_gui.obj 1 15:05:26 <Wolf01> Any help on this? 15:05:36 <Wolf01> It looks everything ok 15:06:59 <Wolf01> It's exactly the same as the roadtype, I think the problem is elsewhere 15:20:27 <Wolf01> Found, it was in another document... 15:20:55 <Alberth> how useful to report an error like that then :) 15:21:37 <Wolf01> I had to cross reference it with the ShowBuildRoadToolbar function :| 15:22:02 <Wolf01> I missed to replace one entry from "tram" to "ltrail" 15:22:54 <Wolf01> Clearly for VS was everything ok, but the linker said not :P 15:25:08 <Eddi|zuHause> try to make sure the project is up to date (by running projects/generate[.vbs]) 15:25:26 *** umgeher_ [~umgeher@177.9.162.194] has joined #openttd 15:25:47 <Eddi|zuHause> also try to make sure you're running the same program that you are editing :p 15:28:09 <Samu> nobody is joining my servers 15:28:16 <Samu> i guess toyland is the culprit 15:28:29 *** umgeher [~umgeher@191.23.69.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:28:29 <Samu> ship servers actually had some compliments 15:28:35 <Samu> until it started slowing down 15:28:37 *** umgeher_ is now known as umgeher 15:30:42 <Samu> id like to help somewhere about pathfinding for ships, but all i can do is mere suggestions :( 15:31:28 <Samu> main problem is the amount of cpu usage for lost ships, there should be a way to make it less intensive 15:32:39 <Samu> if they're lost, don't make them search as often if they're lost for a long time 15:39:45 <Wolf01> Oh, found more hardcoded stuff 15:40:00 <Wolf01> case 4: case 8: case 15: case 19: case 21: case 26: hor->Add(new NWidgetSpacer(0, 0)); break; 15:40:59 <Eddi|zuHause> magic numbers! 15:41:18 <Alberth> death to all numbers :p 15:41:20 <Eddi|zuHause> although the last 3 are "wrong" :p 15:41:41 <Eddi|zuHause> should be 16,23,42 :) 15:41:55 <Wolf01> I didn't understand why it put the spacer between the zoom buttons 15:42:51 <Wolf01> 42? 15:43:14 <Eddi|zuHause> those are the "lost" numbers 15:43:25 <Wolf01> Why do I still read what are you writing? :D 15:43:34 <Eddi|zuHause> :p 15:43:51 <Eddi|zuHause> rule of thumb: you can ignore any line that ends with a smilie :p 15:44:58 <Wolf01> I'll add some more helpers to the widgets enum 15:46:04 <Wolf01> WID_TN_CONSTRUCTION_TOOLS_START, ///< Helper for the offset of the construction tools 15:46:04 <Wolf01> WID_TN_RAILS = WID_TN_CONSTRUCTION_TOOLS_START, ///< Rail building menu. 15:46:15 <Wolf01> It seem too long, any suggestion? 15:46:26 <Wolf01> BUILD_TOOLS? 15:46:47 <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't seem like something one would be really concerned about 15:47:05 <Eddi|zuHause> be more descriptive seems like the better alternative 15:47:23 <Wolf01> In this exact place is not a problem, but in the previous pasted one it might be 15:47:58 <Eddi|zuHause> just put all the cases on different lines 15:47:59 <Wolf01> Btw, since other entries refer as "building tools" I think I'll go with BUILD_TOOLS_START 15:48:10 <Wolf01> Or BUILDING_ 15:49:34 <Wolf01> I'm wondering how many other magic numbers there are around, it's difficult to search them all 16:01:33 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:01:36 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 16:06:56 <Alberth> WID_TN_TOOLS_START 16:07:30 <Wolf01> Too late, it's already in 1.6.2 16:07:40 <Alberth> aw :( 16:09:12 *** DDR [~David@S0106f0f249839863.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: DDR is not Dance Dance Revolution] 16:09:29 *** DDR [~David@S0106f0f249839863.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 16:10:01 <Wolf01> It's shorter, but I think I'll go with the "BUILDING_" version, just "TOOLS" is too generic 16:10:49 <Wolf01> They are all "tools", it's a toolbar 16:13:02 <Samu> rename tools to toolbar 16:14:53 <Wolf01> Which doesn't add anything new to the concept 16:17:00 <Samu> in 3 years, 2 aircraft ais reach 2051 16:17:04 <Samu> chopper and cluelessplus 16:17:55 <Wolf01> Ok, now I just need to make the roadveh window to work for trams and the first step is done 16:19:22 *** mescalito [~mescalito@195-183-191-90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Quit: mescalito] 16:19:42 <Wolf01> Only because it breaks the ships and aircraft lists 16:24:58 *** Progman [~progman@p57A191F3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:26:30 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd 16:33:01 *** michi_cc [~michi@00012723.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:33:04 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 16:40:24 *** sla_ro|master2 [~sla.ro@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd 16:46:56 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@89.136.141.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:51:45 *** CompuDesktop [~Compu@cpe-67-255-36-150.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 16:51:49 *** Compu [~Compu@cpe-67-255-36-150.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 17:01:56 *** Elle_ [~Elle@178-223-61-33.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #openttd 17:07:26 *** ElleKitty [~Elle@79-101-168-136.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:08:51 <MonkeyDrone> when the fuck is summer going to end? 17:09:04 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 17:09:07 <Wolf01> 1.5-2.5 months 17:09:12 <Wolf01> o/ andy 17:09:29 <MonkeyDrone> too far away :( 17:11:31 <andythenorth> lo 17:13:00 <Alberth> o/ 17:16:46 <andythenorth> Wolf01: patched anything yet? o_O 17:17:05 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-157-231.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 17:17:09 <Wolf01> Yeah, some refactoring for the gui 17:22:35 <Wolf01> Before proceeding I would like to define the names to use, I think the vanilla code it's already weird enough 17:23:31 <Wolf01> Are you sure to rename RoadType to StreetType after the split? 17:26:06 <Alberth> notStreetTypes ? 17:29:20 <Wolf01> And I'm not really convinced about catenary, I think it should be a common feature, do multiple catenaries exist? 17:38:54 <Samu> starting terron and syntrans 17:42:58 <Samu> hmm syntrans seems not building 17:43:29 <sim-al2> Well, hypothetically, there's trolley-bus and three-phase caternary, which have two wires 17:44:22 <Wolf01> At the same time? 17:45:05 <sim-al2> Errr, well they are seperate systems, but the visual apparence would be the same 17:45:43 <Wolf01> Which could result really confusing in ottd 17:46:14 <andythenorth> Wolf01: the proposal (iirc) is to keep RoadType for the structure on the tile 17:46:30 <sim-al2> I don't think there were many three-phase trams, but there's tons of trolleybuses around the world 17:46:41 <andythenorth> StreetType is the route type for RVs, not trams 17:46:42 *** alask0ud [~theSuperd@181.169.232.64] has joined #openttd 17:46:51 <andythenorth> I have some irc notes, looking now 17:47:12 <andythenorth> âI think keeping RoadType and being able to unpack it to StreetType and TramType is preferableâ 17:48:32 <Wolf01> Ok, but there are some calculation involved, like some <<4 etc 17:48:51 <andythenorth> Iâm not sure how it pans out in code 17:49:03 <andythenorth> but we need different terms, or we canât talk sensibly :) 17:49:13 <andythenorth> the tile has to have a concept of [Something]Type 17:49:35 <andythenorth> and we have to have a name for the ânot tramâ type of route 17:49:57 <Samu> syntrans wants to build road vehicles before making aircraft, t.t 17:50:00 <andythenorth> âno design survives first commitâ :P 17:50:10 <Wolf01> Meanwhile I split the road and tram building toolbars, the station interface for tram still shows the disabled bays 17:51:05 <Samu> next AI to reach 2051 is dictatorai 17:51:19 <Wolf01> I would like to split the vehicles too, but I better not touch it, I already made saveload angry 17:52:25 <andythenorth> frosch recommended we could just leave vehicles alone 17:52:34 <andythenorth> no particular gain by splitting 17:52:51 <Wolf01> Yeah, I came to the same conclusion 17:53:01 <Wolf01> TMWFTLB 17:53:54 <Wolf01> The construction toolbars needed to be split, up to 32 different types in a dropdown will be extremely confusing :D 17:56:02 <Wolf01> Now, I worked in the branch/gui, and I think I'll work there for some more time to clean out and fix the gui a bit more, then we could merge it on the branch/dev 17:58:17 <andythenorth> w.r.t catenary 17:58:23 <andythenorth> I think drawing both types will be a mess 17:58:32 <andythenorth> but if only drawing one, which one wins? 17:58:50 <Wolf01> It's like drawing pavements 17:59:59 <Wolf01> Or the fences 18:01:32 <Wolf01> Maybe some types should be mutually exclusive 18:01:49 <Wolf01> Eg. you cannot have 2 catenaries on the same tile, even a crossing 18:02:03 <andythenorth> I considered that, but eh, arbitrary restrictions :D 18:02:12 <Wolf01> You need to think better for your routes 18:02:13 <andythenorth> combinatorial explosion 18:02:18 <andythenorth> weâd need a label system ;P 18:02:21 <andythenorth> and a forum thread 18:02:30 <andythenorth> and then a split in the community about two opposing schemas 18:02:32 <Wolf01> It adds difficulty to your puzzle game (V's words) XD 18:02:36 <andythenorth> ideological schism 18:03:26 <andythenorth> apparently I wrote this 18:03:28 <andythenorth> âWhere both types draw catenary, OpenTTD will draw all the catenary. If authors donât like this, they should detect other types by label and special case catenary accordingly.â 18:03:49 <Wolf01> Also dedicated lanes for trams, which mean the RVs are always on the overtaking lane 18:04:02 <Wolf01> And this will work only with oneway roads! 18:04:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm pretty sure i said back then that that was a pretty dumb approach 18:05:26 <andythenorth> the other options are (1) draw all catenary (2) one type always wins? 18:06:39 <Eddi|zuHause> my favourite would be an option where one will win, but gives the NewGRF some interface to set priorities 18:07:27 <Eddi|zuHause> including the option to provide a combined sprite 18:08:02 <Wolf01> http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/a4ae999fb4b44c2597f8784437de02fe/a-route-5-tram-in-rome-f4p7eh.jpg how do you handle a road here? Cars shouldn't be able to travel in this piece (which is a tram stop) 18:08:49 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: that's just a variant on tram-with-pavement? 18:09:55 <Eddi|zuHause> in my ideal world, tram-with-road would have a lower speed limit than separate tram 18:10:49 <Wolf01> Usually yes, you don't see trams speeding at 70kmh between cars 18:11:06 <Eddi|zuHause> preferably with a tram type that forbids putting a road on the same trackbit, only on orthogonal ones 18:11:43 <Wolf01> http://previews.123rf.com/images/sandoe/sandoe0706/sandoe070600011/1052768-Tram-track-Stock-Photo.jpg <- 18:12:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see how you can sanely implement this type of embedded grade separation in openttd, except for sim city 4-style puzzle pieces 18:12:59 <Wolf01> That's the point I'm trying to figure out Eddi, allowing every combination is not possible, at least not good looking or really confusing 18:14:03 <Eddi|zuHause> which is probably out of scope for this patch 18:14:35 <Wolf01> http://citytransport.info/NotMine/MB_O_405_Mannheim_100_1727a.jpg We'll end up doing something like this for the start 18:15:23 <Wolf01> And we are really lucky we don't have traffic in the game 18:16:38 <Wolf01> http://citytransport.info/Share.htm 18:28:13 <Eddi|zuHause> so, what is the exact problem we're trying to solve right now? drawing multiple layers of infrastructure on top of each other? defining ways how combination of layers can be inhibited? allowing different usage of lanes? [reqires state machines, probably] 18:29:17 <frosch123> rule 37: no statemachines 18:34:06 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why i said "out of scope" earlier 18:45:10 <andythenorth> simples 18:45:17 <andythenorth> multiple tram types 18:45:22 <andythenorth> multiple street types 18:45:25 <andythenorth> max 1 of each per tile 18:45:29 <andythenorth> is all 18:49:59 <andythenorth> no changes to vehicles 18:50:03 <andythenorth> no banning combinations 18:52:33 *** srhnsn [~srhnsn@p2003006A6C184300A587C56DF5C0B60C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 19:04:25 <Wolf01> What's wrong with statemachines frosch123? 19:07:48 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-176-199-6-90.hsi06.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #openttd 19:17:08 <andythenorth> nothing, but theyâre vapourware :) 19:17:12 <andythenorth> never will happen 19:33:11 <Samu> teshinet is another ai that can't build aircraft without building road vehicles first :( 19:34:50 *** Progman [~progman@p57A191F3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 19:36:34 <Wolf01> andythenorth, committed the split 19:38:17 <andythenorth> Wolf01: which repo? 19:38:24 <Wolf01> branches/gui 19:38:54 <andythenorth> found it 19:39:00 * andythenorth wonders how pull requests work 19:39:03 <andythenorth> figuring it out 19:39:43 * andythenorth clicked some buttons 19:42:36 <Wolf01> Emails arrived 19:42:58 <Wolf01> Is world a better place now? 19:44:42 <andythenorth> works for me 19:44:46 <andythenorth> need to draw an icon 19:45:48 * andythenorth wants to add tram to hotkey.cfg 19:48:17 *** Long_yanG [~long@15255.s.t4vps.eu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:48:22 *** LongyanG [~long@15255.s.t4vps.eu] has joined #openttd 19:48:55 <Wolf01> You need to move some other hotkeys 19:49:58 <Wolf01> I don't know if is enough to just put a value for "build_ltrail" 19:50:06 <andythenorth> so autoroad gets me autoroad or autoltrail, depending which toolbar is open 19:51:26 <andythenorth> triggered an assert :) 19:51:30 <Wolf01> For me it gives only autorail because it's the standard config 19:51:31 <andythenorth> I am good at testing :) 19:51:36 <Wolf01> :D 19:52:15 <andythenorth> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/poiilzp1s 19:52:42 <andythenorth> press â8â with tram build toolbar open 19:53:52 <Wolf01> Nice one, I only use 4 hotkeys: x, a, d, s 19:54:02 <andythenorth> 8 is one-way 19:54:11 <andythenorth> I was just mashing keys to see what happened 19:54:23 <Wolf01> Yes, I removed it, no sense to have it for trams 19:54:31 <andythenorth> agreed 19:54:53 <andythenorth> itâs very little use for normal RVs either, but that horse has left the stable 19:57:00 <Wolf01> I think the hotkey is defined even for the ltrail toolbar 19:57:34 <Wolf01> Yup, I need to split the enum of the widgets too 19:58:53 <Wolf01> Meh, I forgot to change the name of the class too, it's still BuildTramToolbarWindow 20:00:43 <Samu> holy crap, synaptic just built aircraft, that surprised me 20:00:50 <Samu> was not expecting it 20:01:49 <Wolf01> Uh oh, there are a lot of references in the GS too 20:02:12 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-176-199-6-90.hsi06.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 20:02:29 <Wolf01> We'll break everything 20:03:40 <andythenorth> hmm 20:03:46 <andythenorth> frosch advised something about that before 20:04:32 <andythenorth> before writing any spec, I searched all the places RoadType is used 20:04:38 <andythenorth> GS, AI, cost calculations, etc 20:04:55 <andythenorth> pathfinding 20:05:29 <andythenorth> Wolf01: what breaks in GS just from toolbar split? 20:05:48 <Wolf01> I think GS is not able to build trams 20:07:41 <andythenorth> $someone should write a GS as a test suite 20:07:49 <andythenorth> closest thing we have to Selenium 20:09:12 <frosch123> gs has access to all of the gui to allow stuff like the tutorial 20:09:47 <frosch123> no need to bother about that, you can just regenerate the gs api with src/scripts/api/generate_widget.sh 20:10:05 <Wolf01> Oh, good 20:10:27 <andythenorth> Wolf01: ^ that was the thing frosch advised about before I think :) 20:10:35 <Samu> flyspray is being spammed 20:10:45 <Samu> https://bugs.openttd.org/ 20:35:47 <andythenorth> Wolf01: tomorrow I will try and get an icon drawn 20:36:09 <Wolf01> Good, I'm fixing the toolbar now 20:39:50 <Wolf01> I need to get rid of some crashes :P 20:45:09 <sim-al2> Weird, the spam is all the same phone number with what I assume are supposed to be keywords 20:46:15 <sim-al2> It appears to all over the major bugtrackers too 20:48:42 <andythenorth> maybe itâs the singularity 20:48:51 <andythenorth> meanwhile, I have this drawn https://manxelectricrailway.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/12_dc_1904.jpg?w=450&h=338 20:48:57 <andythenorth> but I need a 1950s version 20:48:59 <andythenorth> fake 20:49:06 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 20:49:16 <andythenorth> keep it as a tram, but modernised? Or engine + two wagons? 20:52:34 <andythenorth> tomorrow can decide 20:52:37 * andythenorth sleep 20:52:38 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 20:55:01 <argoneus> good evening train friends 20:55:54 <Wolf01> o/ 21:08:20 *** supermop [~supermop@pool-100-37-117-73.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 21:10:25 <supermop> yo 21:23:25 <Samu> teshinet bankrupted 21:23:30 <Samu> starting tracai 21:27:15 *** frosch123 [~frosch@00013ce7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 21:40:06 *** sla_ro|master2 [~sla.ro@89.136.141.100] has quit [] 22:24:32 *** Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! 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