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00:00:55 <glx> no random in supybot without a plugin 00:01:23 <Samu> just picked the first 8 to test 00:02:24 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 00:19:46 <Eddi|zuHause> if rand(3) returns 4, you might be in trouble 00:23:33 <Samu> http://imgur.com/a/YBiBP 00:24:07 <Samu> bad start for civilai 00:24:15 <Samu> the one in the middle 00:29:41 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 00:39:47 *** Snail has joined #openttd 00:40:23 *** Samu has quit IRC 00:49:56 *** JezK has joined #openttd 00:57:35 *** supermop has joined #openttd 01:37:08 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 01:45:25 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 02:08:10 *** yorick_ has joined #openttd 02:14:32 *** yorick has quit IRC 03:11:08 *** glx has quit IRC 03:39:26 *** Hiddenfunstuff has joined #openttd 03:54:28 *** Snail has quit IRC 05:42:51 *** alask0ud has quit IRC 06:18:25 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 06:59:26 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 07:00:34 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd 07:06:48 *** Sova has joined #openttd 07:36:35 *** Sova has quit IRC 07:37:03 *** Sova has joined #openttd 07:56:14 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 07:57:08 *** keoz has joined #openttd 08:24:15 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 08:27:58 <V453000> yo north 08:28:07 *** keoz has quit IRC 08:28:17 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 08:31:41 *** Pulec has quit IRC 08:43:19 *** Pulec has joined #openttd 08:51:18 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 08:57:19 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 09:06:18 *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd 09:10:50 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 09:11:17 <andythenorth_> o/ 09:14:16 <Wolf01> o/ 09:15:03 *** Antheus has quit IRC 09:15:12 *** Antheus has joined #openttd 09:17:57 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 09:21:34 <V453000> north unstable today 09:22:01 *** keoz has joined #openttd 09:26:03 *** tokai has joined #openttd 09:26:04 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 09:32:21 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 09:55:41 *** TheMask96 has quit IRC 09:56:53 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd 10:09:25 *** JezK has quit IRC 10:10:32 *** Sova has quit IRC 10:30:56 *** Samu has joined #openttd 10:31:14 <Samu> hi all 10:33:24 <Samu> I'm trying to come up with "settings every ai author would agree" 10:33:44 <Samu> any hint? 10:34:21 <Samu> the only rule is... no NewGRF 10:39:19 <Samu> should I create a topic asking for it? 10:41:41 *** Sova has joined #openttd 10:46:46 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 10:48:52 <andythenorth_> Connection up, connection down :p 10:49:00 <andythenorth_> Is way of things 10:51:58 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 11:03:42 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 11:09:44 <Samu> anyone know what is this setting? 11:09:46 <Samu> https://wiki.openttd.org/Heightmap_rotation 11:10:59 <Samu> game_creation.heightmap_rotation 11:11:26 <Samu> ah, I think I know 11:11:34 <FLHerne> Samu: Images are usually displayed with horizontal/vertical edges, OTTD maps are diagonal 11:12:35 <Samu> does it also work with generated maps' 11:12:37 <Samu> ? 11:13:07 <FLHerne> So the heightmap has to be rotated 45° in either direction to align with the OTTD world 11:13:29 <FLHerne> No? That doesn't really make sense 11:15:19 <Samu> ok 11:21:25 *** Krycho has joined #openttd 11:21:38 <Krycho> Hello!??! 11:22:14 <FLHerne> Krycho: Hi 11:23:07 <FLHerne> So punctuation!‽¿≠ 11:23:19 <Krycho> I would like to install an openttd server on a "Pi Zero" I have at home, but I can't seem to find a guide for it, you guys have any idea how I could do it? 11:23:27 <Krycho> ¿?¿?¿? :) 11:24:15 <Krycho> the pi zero is running Jessie and I am running it headless via SSH 11:25:09 <peter1138> probably "apt-get install openttd" would do the job 11:25:23 <FLHerne> The standard openttd build will run as a server, there aren't any headless packages 11:25:39 <peter1138> may not be the latest release though 11:26:05 <Alkel_U3> although jessie has quite old version in its repository 11:26:19 <Krycho> so id have to download it run it with it connected to a screen ? 11:26:32 <peter1138> no 11:27:02 <Alkel_U3> you just run "openttd -D" 11:28:37 <Samu> does vehicle.smoke_amount has any impact on vehicle performance? 11:28:46 <Samu> is it only for looks? 11:28:48 <Alkel_U3> if there isn't a build for your platform, you might need to compile from source 11:28:54 <FLHerne> Samu: Looks 11:29:22 <Samu> ok 11:29:51 <Krycho> should I be able to see the game on servers after running openttd -D ? 11:30:07 <peter1138> you'll need to configure it 11:30:38 <peter1138> there's a load of settings for ... everything 11:31:19 <Krycho> I see it there but it tells me server version is 1.4.4 11:31:33 <peter1138> yeah 11:31:37 <Alkel_U3> have fun https://wiki.openttd.org/Compiling_on_(GNU/)Linux_and_*BSD 11:31:38 <peter1138> so it's too old :( 11:31:47 <Alkel_U3> (it's not too complicated) 11:32:44 <peter1138> well compiling on a pi is not very fun 11:32:44 <Krycho> the problem is the first command it gives me on the site says "E: You must put some 'source' URIs in your sources.list" 11:33:23 <Alkel_U3> I did it on Cubieboard2 with Jessie, it's just long :-) 11:33:33 <Krycho> would it be easier to run on a kimsufi server ? 11:33:36 <Krycho> on debian ? 11:33:56 <Alkel_U3> if you have kimsufi server, yes 11:34:20 <Krycho> yeah 11:34:33 <Krycho> just use it as seedbox and teamspeak server xD 11:34:52 <Krycho> any step by step guide for it? cos im dumb as shit 11:34:59 <Alkel_U3> I personaly have very good experience with forpsi VPS 11:35:04 <Krycho> dir 11:35:09 <Krycho> woops xD 11:35:12 <peter1138> ls 11:35:55 <Samu> extend_vehicle_life = 50 - does it mean a vehicle that has a max age of 20 years, would get 70 instead? 11:36:09 <Samu> or is it the model availability that is extended? 11:36:21 <Samu> never tried this setting 11:36:42 <Alkel_U3> the Zero also won't be able to run at full speed during lategame anyway, IMHO. Even the faster, dualcore CB2 was running just so-so a few years back. 11:36:58 <Samu> ok just tried it 11:37:10 <Samu> lel, vehicles max age 70 11:37:16 <Samu> i don't think i like this setting 11:38:26 <Alkel_U3> Krycho: download from here according to your architecture https://www.openttd.org/en/download-stable , install. 11:39:06 <FLHerne> Alkel_U3: It's a RasPi, there are no such files 11:39:45 <Alkel_U3> FLHerne: he decided to switch to kimsufi server if I understood correctly 11:40:07 <Krycho> im torn xD 11:40:11 <FLHerne> Alkel_U3: Oh, I see 11:40:38 <Alkel_U3> server on zero won't be too playable, anyway, I think 11:40:39 <Krycho> but wont it give me the same problems? 11:41:17 <Alkel_U3> no because the page I linked has ready packages for Jessie on Intel CPUs 11:42:04 <Alkel_U3> just dowload from there and install it (dpkg -i nameofyouropenttdpackage.deb) 11:42:46 *** TheMask96 has quit IRC 11:44:11 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd 11:44:37 <peter1138> yeah, prebuilt for x86_64 11:44:57 <Krycho> pi is arm 11:45:05 <peter1138> run it on the kimsufi, it'll perform better anyway 11:46:37 <Samu> allow landscaping under buildings, tracks, etc... is this the autoslope? 11:46:50 <Samu> the description slightly changed if it is 11:46:55 <Samu> wiki is not updated 11:50:33 <Samu> build_on_slopes is no longer an advanced setting 11:50:42 <Samu> wiki not updated ugh :( 11:57:24 <Samu> train_signal_side is only visual too, right? 12:02:57 <Wolf01> Yes 12:12:31 *** Snail has joined #openttd 12:12:39 <Samu> economy.give_money 12:12:45 <Samu> can AIs give money to each other? 12:14:57 <Samu> and shares? 12:15:14 <Samu> well i'm testing them solo, but just curious 12:18:03 <Wolf01> Mmmh, no frog and no north guy, many questions 12:19:55 *** Krycho has quit IRC 12:25:08 *** JacobD88 has quit IRC 12:25:20 <Wolf01> Also, is it possible to fix or at least ignore the overloaded operators "expression mus have a constant value" error in enums? 12:25:29 <Wolf01> *must 12:25:53 <peter1138> enums must have a constant value, so... 12:26:04 <Wolf01> And they have 12:26:15 <Wolf01> It's the operator fault 12:26:17 *** keoz has quit IRC 12:29:33 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 12:30:41 *** Xaroth has quit IRC 12:30:53 *** Xaroth has joined #openttd 12:31:09 *** keoz has joined #openttd 12:35:17 <Samu> topic posted 12:35:21 <Samu> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=75176 i hope it's not in vain 12:40:05 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 12:50:21 *** Snail has quit IRC 12:59:27 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 12:59:52 <Wolf01> o/ 13:02:11 *** keoz has quit IRC 13:02:26 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 13:18:20 <Eddi|zuHause> you can only use operators which the compiler can evaluat on compile time, otherwise the result cannot be a constant 13:21:33 <Wolf01> Every enum has this problem if there's a value set with bitwise or 13:22:07 <Wolf01> like ROAD_X = ROAD_SW | ROAD_NE, 13:30:25 *** glx has joined #openttd 13:30:26 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 13:38:53 *** keoz has joined #openttd 13:43:01 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 13:44:40 *** keoz has quit IRC 13:45:11 *** keoz has joined #openttd 13:45:57 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 13:57:40 <supermop_> yo 14:03:22 *** Sova has quit IRC 14:07:45 *** Jaenster has quit IRC 14:07:45 *** Jaenster has joined #openttd 14:08:09 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 14:11:20 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: well, then you can't overload the | operator... 14:11:59 <Wolf01> Me? It's in the vanilla code, and every time I open some sources it floods with errors 14:12:36 <Eddi|zuHause> then i can't help you. 14:12:52 <Wolf01> And the poor wolf needs to search for his error in the middle of the others :( 14:12:54 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds overzealous 14:14:20 <Wolf01> Google seem to not be really helpful, Stackoverflow has something but not for this exact case 14:26:45 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 14:27:13 <Wolf01> o/ 14:27:37 <Wolf01> FYI: pushed catenary flag 14:28:32 <Wolf01> No gui, no split, only flag+drawing (no catenary is drawn atm as the bit is always false) 14:30:07 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 14:35:06 *** mindlesstux_ has joined #openttd 14:38:36 <Rubidium> Samu: I have no idea 14:40:39 *** mindlesstux has quit IRC 14:40:39 *** mindlesstux_ is now known as mindlesstux 14:45:43 <Ethereal_Whisper> http://i.imgur.com/E0l2GDP.png such a clusterfuck 14:53:07 <V453000> ez 14:53:31 <Ethereal_Whisper> Stupid "organic" junctions 14:53:33 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 14:53:57 <Ethereal_Whisper> The north-south line crossing over/under the east-west line did not exist at the time of construction and design 14:54:12 <Ethereal_Whisper> So it's a haphazard addition lol 14:54:36 <andythenorth_> Wolf01 nice work on catenary :) 14:55:47 <Wolf01> ;) 14:56:50 *** Sergey has joined #openttd 14:56:59 <Sergey> Help me 14:57:17 <Ethereal_Whisper> How can we? 14:57:18 * Sergey slaps Eddi|zuHause around a bit with a large fishbot 14:57:20 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 14:57:29 * Ethereal_Whisper aims a bow and arrow at Sergey 14:58:08 <Sergey> How create owerlapping tiles ? 14:58:27 <Sergey> Sorry my bad English 14:58:46 <Sergey> How create GRF 14:59:30 *** Sergey has quit IRC 15:00:05 *** SergeyNem has joined #openttd 15:00:09 *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd 15:00:24 <SergeyNem> How create GRF ? 15:01:06 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 15:03:54 *** SergeyNem has quit IRC 15:03:54 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 15:03:54 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 15:05:35 *** supermop_ has quit IRC 15:10:20 <andythenorth_> Ships 15:10:20 <andythenorth_> Tricky 15:10:44 * andythenorth_ still seeking basic schema 15:11:01 <V453000> yo 15:13:33 <andythenorth_> Yo 15:14:06 <andythenorth_> Small and fast or small and slow? :p 15:14:13 <V453000> BIG AND FAST 15:14:17 * andythenorth_ no context 15:15:25 <Ethereal_Whisper> Ah, the age-old latency vs. throughput discussion 15:17:55 <Eddi|zuHause> slow and cargo decay modifier 15:19:20 <V453000> andythenorth_: answer is trains 15:22:24 <Ethereal_Whisper> Got a marine station not close enough to the coast? The answer is terraforming 15:22:30 *** Ethereal_Whisper has left #openttd 15:22:33 *** Ethereal_Whisper has joined #openttd 15:22:39 <Ethereal_Whisper> There, fixed my scroll issue 15:26:26 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 15:30:09 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd 15:40:14 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 15:41:03 *** andythen_ has joined #openttd 15:41:03 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 15:41:55 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 15:42:07 *** andythen_ has quit IRC 15:42:40 <Wolf01> Really unstable today, eh? 15:43:23 <andythenorth_> Hotel wifi, on a phone :p 15:44:18 <Wolf01> Where are you? 15:44:45 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 15:44:45 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 15:44:50 <Wolf01> o/ 15:45:17 <Alberth> hi hi 15:51:27 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 16:36:53 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 16:37:09 *** alask0ud has joined #openttd 16:54:08 *** aard has joined #openttd 17:08:23 <Samu> GDDR6 is coming in 2018, i thought GDDR stuff would phase out 17:09:45 <Samu> Samsung plans to have 100 TB SSDs ready by 2020 17:09:51 <Samu> RIP HDD 17:12:10 <Samu> Seagate showcased a 60 TB SSD, 3.5' form factor, finally someone is making 3.5' SSDs 17:13:27 <Samu> 60 TB SSD! and here I am with my meager 1 TB HDD 17:13:34 <Wolf01> Do you think this argument belongs to this channel? We talk about Factorio or Europa Universalis here 17:14:06 <Wolf01> :D 17:14:13 <Samu> :( 17:16:45 <Alberth> it's all equally on-topic :p 17:17:08 <Alberth> also, you missed lego as topic :) 17:18:01 <Wolf01> Lego doesn't need to be on topic, it's always a fitting argument ;) 17:18:25 <Alberth> although I fail to see why you'd ever need a 100TB disk 17:19:16 <Wolf01> Risk of losing 100TB of stuff in one single fault? 17:19:36 <Wolf01> Better having 100 x 1TB SSD 17:27:56 <Eddi|zuHause> of course you'd put them in a raid 1/5/6/... to prevent data loss 17:31:06 <Alkel_U3> 100TB storage? How else could we move onto SupermegaultraHD™5D movies? 17:31:44 <Wolf01> I still watch DVDs 17:32:19 <Eddi|zuHause> that argument always reminds me how when CDs came out which were larger than any existing HDDs, and people said "you don't need a HDD anymore" 17:33:03 <Wolf01> Then with BR-D was the same, and something popped out even with holodisks 17:33:36 <Alkel_U3> as I only have access to an HD projector, I'd probably watch DVDs, too, but I needed that fourth SATA port for another HDD :-) 17:34:00 <Alkel_U3> too small disks and too low-end board 17:34:41 *** Gja has joined #openttd 17:35:13 <Alkel_U3> now it's demoted to a coffee cup holder without data connection 17:35:51 <Alkel_U3> oh, that reminds me of a story :D http://thedailywtf.com/articles/ITAPPMONROBOT 17:52:02 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 17:59:19 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 17:59:28 <Wolf01> Quak 18:00:25 <frosch123> hoi 18:09:11 <SpComb> frosch123: http://skrblz.qmsk.net/~spbot/logs/openttd-20160822.tar.xz 18:09:34 <SpComb> frosch123: it's irssi default theme log format with HH:MM:SS timestamps, with files named by YYYY-MM-DD 18:12:16 <SpComb> using the EET/EEST timezone, i.e. finnish localtime with DST transitions 18:16:24 <frosch123> thanks 18:16:28 <frosch123> sounds like a sed task :) 18:16:31 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 18:18:27 <andythenorth_> Connection stays up about 2 mins :p 18:18:42 <andythenorth_> I think this phone drops it when it sleeps 18:18:52 * andythenorth_ does not understand phones 18:19:21 <frosch123> the phone is supposed to understand you :) 18:20:20 <SpComb> frosch123: just sed won't help you with the 03:xx:xx timestamps on 2015-10-25 :P 18:20:34 <SpComb> but the irclogs code isn't smart enough to correctly handle the DST transitions either 18:21:04 <SpComb> and I wasn't smart enough to just convert all the old logs to UTC first 18:22:43 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth_: set it up to not drop connections that are idle 18:28:18 <Samu> darn bankrupts 18:28:36 <Samu> could the bankrupt system be changed somehow? 18:29:14 <Samu> ais disappearing with huge profits is ... meh 18:29:32 <Samu> could there be an option to disable bankrupting? 18:29:35 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 18:29:58 <Samu> :( what can I do to avoid ai bankrutping with profits? 18:30:13 <SpComb> and I totally have a plan for replacing SpBot when the machine it's running on goes away, it just involves implementing a cluster of IRC bots written in Go, using etcd for dynamic configuration and writing messages into a kafka queue that gets loaded into an elasticsearch cluster, with some Django web frontend that includes progressive enhancement of some AngularJS components like a websocket streaming stuff from the same kafka queues! 18:30:26 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 18:30:38 <SpComb> I would just need a couple months of development time and a nice Docker cluster to run it all on, and it would probably just end up logging #openttd, so I think I'm not going to bother :P 18:30:48 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 18:30:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i think my buzzword detector exploded 18:31:21 <Eddi|zuHause> can't we just add logging to DorpsGek instead? 18:31:29 <Samu> EpicTrans should name his companies as EPIC BANKRUPTING COMPANY 18:31:50 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: psst, dorpsgek always wanted a friend 18:31:59 <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: frosch123 said he had something as a replacement, dunno what exactly 18:32:23 <frosch123> http://webster.openttdcoop.org/index.php?channel=openttd&page=logs <- the same thing that logs all the other channels 18:32:49 <Wolf01> frosch123, andythenorth_, I'm wondering what I need to do on NotRoadTypes: let's take the StreetTypes, there will be a "Normal" type and more types like "Country", "Trolleybus" and "Freeway" with different limits and stuff? 18:33:03 <Eddi|zuHause> @logs 18:33:03 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd 18:33:14 <Eddi|zuHause> that needs updating, i suppose 18:33:21 <frosch123> not yet 18:33:58 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 18:34:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: the default game will just have "normal", anything else added by NewGRF 18:34:45 <Wolf01> Just trying to figure out what are the "StreetTypes" :P 18:34:55 *** Arveen has joined #openttd 18:35:07 <frosch123> Wolf01: mostly graphical variations 18:35:12 <Eddi|zuHause> cobble vs. asphalt, town vs. country, ... 18:35:13 <frosch123> like off-road stuff for heqs 18:35:19 <Wolf01> Because even the "normal" could be split into types 18:35:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: you can't possibly prepare for all things NewGRF authors will come up with 18:36:03 <Wolf01> If it's visual only I could suggest a gui to set the bits for decorations 18:36:11 <Eddi|zuHause> (*vaguely points towards V453000*) 18:36:45 *** Myhorta has joined #openttd 18:36:48 <frosch123> Wolf01: with only 4 bits for the type, there are not many user options :p 18:36:49 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: one option that i had in mind was that "country" roads would be ignored by the town growth algorithm 18:37:24 <frosch123> but yes, "allow level crossing", "town growth speed", ... that stuff 18:37:34 <Wolf01> For example I wouldn't put a "road" and "road w/ catenary", because in future we could even have freeways with catenary for el-trucks 18:38:21 <Wolf01> (I always felt even the rails vs rails w/ catenary a duplication) 18:39:24 <Wolf01> But it's too late to change how the game works 18:39:34 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but it's not a "clean" duplication, e.g. "maglev with catenary" makes no sense 18:39:55 <Wolf01> So if we'll need catenary on a freeway, we'll need a freeway wi/ catenary type 18:40:02 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 18:42:04 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 18:42:31 <Wolf01> Btw, nobody stops me to have maglev w/ catenary, or there's a hardcoded limitation? 18:44:40 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: you could add a flag "maglev cannot have catenary", but then you'd artificially block a railtype slot 18:46:17 <Eddi|zuHause> (assuming you'd want to reduce the railtype slots from 16 to 8, and have the other 8 automatically mapped to a "... with catenary" slot) 18:47:17 <Eddi|zuHause> it would probably simplify a few things, especially the GUI could just have a "... with catenary" button, but it'd reduce the flexibility a bit 18:47:48 <supermop_> Wolf01: Eddi|zuHause: what if the maglev train is propelled by the superconducting track, but uses catenary for powering the lights on board? 18:48:19 <Wolf01> You could have wireless charge 18:48:39 <supermop_> what if in tt land the catenary hanger's union is so strong they will strick if you build any fast track without catenary? 18:48:46 <supermop_> strike 18:48:49 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop_: the friction on catenary would pose a speed restriction 18:49:09 <Eddi|zuHause> plus wear, and other stuff 18:49:14 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a terrible idea, really 18:51:06 <Wolf01> Yes, it reduces flexibility, but it's really more easy to understand, you have a button to set the catenary bit in every tile you want (even on bare land, maybe you have an electric tracked vehicle)... the downside is that it breaks the "convert rail" tool 18:52:29 <Wolf01> Which is another point I need to work on: understand what could be converted into the new type 18:53:09 <Wolf01> Specially when you have 2 types on the same tile 18:54:16 <Wolf01> For example, you have a straight road, suddenly a tram crossing (or even a rail crossing) and you are converting the road to "freeway type" which doesn't allow crossings 18:54:47 <Eddi|zuHause> what's there to consider? you can convert all roadtypes into other roadtypes, and all tramtypes into other tramtypes. if the combination is not allowed, or if an incompatible vehicle is on it, the conversion fails 18:57:06 *** keoz has quit IRC 18:57:51 <Wolf01> Yes 18:58:15 <Samu> does anyone know who works on EpicTrans? 18:58:23 <Samu> the author is still unknown 18:58:30 <Samu> at least for me 19:00:50 <Eddi|zuHause> the rail conversion originally failed when a vehicle is on it at all, but that was found too restrictive and annoying when converting to electric rail, because it results in forgotten bits and pathfinder errors 19:01:06 <Wolf01> I remember 19:01:26 <Samu> function GetAuthor() { return "Tovermodus"; } 19:01:30 <Samu> who's Tovermodus? 19:06:45 *** Progman has joined #openttd 19:10:40 <supermop_> catenary on empty land -> power lines -> all catenary must connect to a power plant or feeder station? 19:10:56 <supermop_> overhead electric boats? 19:14:39 <Rubidium> electric planes? 19:15:31 <Wolf01> Put lights in the sky to make landing corridors for planes 19:15:42 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 19:17:42 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 19:17:53 <Samu> i'm investigating epictrans code, it looks similar to wrightai 19:18:02 <Samu> it does have german and english commentaries 19:18:08 <Samu> seems like copy pastes of other ais 19:18:28 <Samu> there's a OTVI part 19:18:31 <andythenorth_> Wolf01 there would be n newgrf defined extra types 19:19:26 <andythenorth_> I wanted to find a way to separate concerns - NotRoadTypes base patch, then extend for newgrf 19:19:44 <andythenorth_> Otherwise it's a big piece of work 19:19:52 <Wolf01> Yes, indeed 19:20:34 <andythenorth_> Newgrf requires defining spec for vehicles and road tiles 19:20:39 <andythenorth_> Updating tools 19:20:43 <andythenorth_> Etc 19:20:53 <Wolf01> I was just wondering why we had different types for just catenary 19:21:05 <andythenorth_> It will grow :D 19:23:00 <andythenorth_> But splitting street/tram is useful meanwhile imo 19:23:22 <andythenorth_> Especially I can now have a hotkey for autotram :) 19:23:32 <Wolf01> :D 19:29:45 <andythenorth_> bloody ships 19:29:55 <andythenorth_> Trains and trucks have a logic 19:30:19 <Wolf01> Ok, now we have a catenary bit and gui separation, and I'm too afraid to write ltrail_type.h and tamper with road_type.h 19:30:28 <andythenorth_> We have passenger vehicles, mail vehicles, different kinds of freight vehicles 19:30:38 <andythenorth_> Ships are just a mess :p 19:31:22 <andythenorth_> Wolf01 how completely do you envisage splitting ltrail and street? 19:31:58 <andythenorth_> Does anything remain shared? o_O 19:32:24 <Wolf01> Almost all is the same, functions only need type change on params 19:34:54 <Wolf01> I'm a bit confused and uncertain on what to do: lot of code duplication or lot of changes on existing code 19:36:39 <andythenorth_> I thought mostly change existing code, when I read it 19:36:40 <Wolf01> I think I'll start to make a hardcoded roadtype like "dirt road" and gradually remove the "tram" from "road" 19:37:02 <andythenorth_> Notably the drawing code seemed best unified 19:37:08 <Wolf01> Just to see all the changes it needs 19:37:12 <andythenorth_> Construction...maybe 19:37:19 <Wolf01> And then I'll remove the "dirt road" too 19:41:33 <andythenorth_> If you put a temporary 'dirt road' flag on a default vehicle, you'll find all the things like depot list etc that will need patched for newgrf types :) 19:43:07 <Wolf01> That's the fear I had... Also I might need to split vehicles too, but before or after the RoadTypes? 19:43:11 <Eddi|zuHause> <Wolf01> I'm a bit confused and uncertain on what to do: lot of code duplication or lot of changes on existing code <-- usually that's the point where inheritance comes in 19:43:44 <Eddi|zuHause> (or templates) 19:44:35 <Wolf01> I don't think the next patch will be a few lines of code 19:45:55 *** Arveen has quit IRC 19:48:07 <andythenorth_> Wolf01 vehicles should mostly be ok, all the heavy lifting on routing & drawing was done years agonfor trams 19:48:14 <andythenorth_> Ago * 19:48:49 <andythenorth_> I saw nothing to suggest splitting RoadVehicle into separate types 19:49:38 <Wolf01> For the same reason I don't find the need to split the RoadTypes, just unpacking them in the right way 19:50:29 <Wolf01> If in future we need another type which works like roads, as trains have (rail, monorail, maglev) we should just add another enum entry 19:50:51 <andythenorth_> +1 19:51:30 <Wolf01> Splitting gui and grf code is required 19:52:14 <Wolf01> A RoadType filter on vehicle list should already be there 19:53:19 <Wolf01> I could try to do something on unpacking the "StreetType", so I could test a convert tool between paved road and dirt road which don't affect the light rail 19:53:46 <Wolf01> Then remove the dirt road and let the grf doing the work 19:54:17 * Wolf01 needs to study how rail<->elrail works 20:00:06 <andythenorth_> I did some experiments with removal 20:00:19 <andythenorth_> Just need to clear the correct bits 20:00:45 <andythenorth_> iirc bridges and tunnels might be a PITA 20:01:01 <andythenorth_> Can't remember precisely 20:04:02 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 20:09:59 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 20:15:36 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 20:17:43 *** supermop__ has joined #openttd 20:20:43 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 20:21:14 <andythenorth> Maybe the tablet irc client is less stupid than the phone one :p 20:23:08 *** supermop_ has quit IRC 20:23:21 <Wolf01> :D 20:23:23 <andythenorth> horsepower for ships. 20:23:31 <andythenorth> ? 20:23:39 <Wolf01> Put kids to sleep and stole the tablet? 20:23:40 <andythenorth> draft :p 20:24:00 <andythenorth> Yup kids asleep, taken ipad :p 20:24:40 <andythenorth> Ships only have 2 dimensions, capacity and speed 20:24:55 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 20:25:02 <andythenorth> and speed is not useful, because there. 20:25:19 <frosch123> loading speed :) 20:25:29 <andythenorth> there's no reason to choose anything but fastest 20:25:47 <andythenorth> Loading speed is possible useful, yes 20:25:57 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 20:26:36 *** Alberth has left #openttd 20:29:24 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 20:30:29 <supermop__> andythenorth: i had a long rable yesterday about how granularity always beats capacity curently 20:30:45 <supermop__> no reason to use 1 600t instead of 2 300t 20:31:28 <supermop__> unless the big boat has much lower running cost, or fast load speed, 20:34:15 <Rubidium> or you're reaching the ship limit 20:36:13 <andythenorth> Big ones look cool 20:36:20 <andythenorth> Is the main reason 20:37:10 <andythenorth> In original FISH there was one 360t ship that refitted everything, and was basically the boss choice for most routes :p 20:37:33 <andythenorth> The bigger ones were pointless :p 20:38:16 <andythenorth> I'm not saying I *am* working on a new ship set, but if I was, it might not feature large ships 20:57:45 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 20:58:17 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 21:01:31 *** Hiddenfunstuff has quit IRC 21:05:08 <Wolf01> Mmmh, the problem is: how can I have only 2 RoadTypes in the same tile? 21:06:22 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 21:06:25 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 21:06:28 <Wolf01> If I have 3 RoadTypes, 2 streets and 1 tram, I need to have just 1 street and 1 tram 21:06:51 <Wolf01> Not all of them or even 2 street types 21:08:47 <Eddi|zuHause> we have debated that for years. do you really allow multiple roadtypes? or only one roadtype and one tramtype? how to restrict trolleybus catenary to only some road bits? 21:09:01 <Eddi|zuHause> there was never a clear answer what would be best 21:09:02 <Wolf01> Exactly 21:09:17 <Eddi|zuHause> more flexibility needs more bits stored in the map 21:10:19 <Eddi|zuHause> imagine 4 road bits A,B,C,D with roads, then a tram going B,D and a trolleybus route going A,D. how to have no catenary on C? 21:11:34 <Wolf01> Yes, that's a problem we should address, but I can't even start to change this, rails are really different to roads 21:11:58 <Wolf01> Because you can only have one railtype per tile 21:12:18 <Wolf01> (that's the problem with diagonal rails of different types) 21:12:31 <Eddi|zuHause> there were some attempts to alter that 21:12:33 <supermop__> 2 railtypes per tile would be nice on diagonals 21:12:58 <Eddi|zuHause> with "stacked tiles" and whatnot 21:13:18 <Wolf01> The problem is that I'm stuck at functions, which all use "RoadTypes" type 21:13:27 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 21:13:29 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc had somthing about that, and there's cirdan's fork 21:15:24 <andythenorth> Wolf01 one street type and one tram type per tile 21:15:33 <andythenorth> Anything else gets horrible 21:15:33 <Wolf01> Yes 21:15:44 <andythenorth> Really horrible :) 21:16:09 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but then, if trolleybus is a street type, you can't restrict the catenary to only some road bits, which will look horrible 21:16:15 <supermop__> 255 road types per tile 21:16:18 *** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd 21:16:23 <Eddi|zuHause> or you construct the catenary from adjacent tile data 21:16:25 <Wolf01> If I add one RoadType to the enum, it explodes because it looks for 3 road types on the same tile 21:16:36 <TrueBrain> @logs 21:16:39 <TrueBrain> I BROKE IT 21:16:49 <andythenorth> Construct catenary using similar magic to rail catenary 21:17:09 *** aard has quit IRC 21:17:15 <supermop__> 4096x4096 tram types per tile 21:17:22 <TrueBrain> @logs 21:17:23 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: http://webster.openttdcoop.org/index.php?channel=openttd&page=logs 21:17:42 <andythenorth> How many ship types per tile? 21:18:11 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain, frosch123: can we have a page that directly links to the latest log entry, instead of this overview page? 21:18:22 <supermop__> 0 21:18:58 <TrueBrain> NO! <3 21:19:18 <Eddi|zuHause> but it's 2 clicks and an "End" button press now! 21:19:22 <andythenorth> Squid has 25 ships. My current idea for scheme requires 84 :p 21:19:25 <TrueBrain> mainly because I have no idea how :p 21:20:54 <TrueBrain> @logs 21:20:54 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: http://webster.openttdcoop.org/index.php?channel=openttd 21:21:00 <TrueBrain> smaller URL, same result :P 21:22:52 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 21:23:14 <TrueBrain> @jump 21:23:14 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: howhigh? 21:23:19 <TrueBrain> lol :D 21:24:04 *** Progman has quit IRC 21:24:06 <frosch123> @logs 21:24:06 <DorpsGek> frosch123: https://webster.openttdcoop.org/index.php?channel=openttd 21:24:10 <Wolf01> Oh, the stats, I missed those 21:24:38 <frosch123> Wolf01: wait for tomorrow 21:24:44 <frosch123> they are coop only currently 21:24:52 <Wolf01> Yes, I noticed 21:24:53 <frosch123> completely eddi-free so to say 21:25:01 <Eddi|zuHause> haha :p 21:27:08 <Eddi|zuHause> what i always disliked about stats was that the "big numbebrs" usually are from some guys who only ever said 5 lines 21:28:49 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 21:30:51 <andythenorth> Grr 21:30:56 <andythenorth> Ships :p 21:31:06 <andythenorth> Maybe sleep will solve them 21:32:31 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 21:35:01 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 21:35:17 *** Wormnest_ has quit IRC 21:35:23 <Wolf01> Yes, I should take a break too 21:37:22 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 21:37:22 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 21:42:12 <Wolf01> https://i.ytimg.com/vi/J3roEFBMl00/maxresdefault.jpg wonderful 21:42:34 <Wolf01> Here's your answer eddi 21:44:21 *** tokai has quit IRC 21:45:57 *** Gja has quit IRC 21:46:31 <supermop__> Wolf01: ive been there 21:50:58 <Wolf01> http://www.internationalsteam.co.uk/tales/lythgoe85.htm nice, maybe andy could add these to iron horse 21:54:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: what was my question? 21:56:31 <Wolf01> Picky :D 21:58:41 <Samu> the extension .log is not allowed 21:58:45 <Samu> t.t 21:59:10 <Samu> is .txt allowed on forum? 21:59:53 <Samu> oh yeah it is 22:00:15 <Samu> time to rename all my log files 22:00:29 <Samu> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=57616&p=1175540#p1175540 22:01:40 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 22:07:38 <Samu> notepad++ is locking up left and right lately... 22:07:47 <Samu> after the last windows 10 update 22:08:14 <Wolf01> What? 22:08:48 *** Compu has quit IRC 22:09:06 <NGC3982> Why is the extention .log not allowed? 22:15:21 *** Compu has joined #openttd 22:15:41 <argoneus> good evening train friends 22:15:51 <Wolf01> o/ 22:25:23 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd 22:31:54 *** supermop__ has quit IRC 22:36:39 *** gelignite has quit IRC 22:36:56 *** Myhorta has quit IRC 22:45:04 *** supermop__ has joined #openttd 22:50:59 *** supermop_ has quit IRC 22:57:32 *** keoz has joined #openttd 23:06:13 *** Snail has joined #openttd 23:17:32 <Wolf01> 'night 23:17:42 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 23:36:27 *** txtsd has quit IRC 23:36:31 *** txtsd has joined #openttd 23:39:19 *** JacobD88 has quit IRC