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:) 08:10:55 <andythenorth_> Yup 08:14:18 *** zeknurn has quit IRC 08:14:18 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 08:33:25 *** keoz has joined #openttd 09:16:43 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 09:20:04 <andythenorth> Ship generations 09:20:16 <andythenorth> Squid only has two 09:20:27 <andythenorth> Roughly 100 years apart 09:22:14 <andythenorth> Probably fine 09:23:01 <andythenorth> I was considering three, fifty years apart 09:25:46 * andythenorth has no question :p 09:26:18 <andythenorth> But fewer generations means fewer sprites to draw 09:26:30 <Alberth> :) 09:26:35 <andythenorth> And makes similar-but different easier for sprites 09:26:50 <Alberth> yep, that should be quite easier 09:27:15 <andythenorth> So my initial plan was 10 freight types, 3 sizes each, 3 generations 09:27:30 <andythenorth> now 2 sizes, 2 generations 09:27:41 <andythenorth> 90 -> 40 09:27:45 <Alberth> lots of less pixels :) 09:28:04 <Alberth> sort of minimal set, I guess 09:28:41 <andythenorth> Less minimal than squid, more variety of cargo types 09:29:51 <andythenorth> Refrigerated, livestock, tanker, edibles tanker, logs, fruit, supplies, powder tanker 09:29:58 <andythenorth> Etc 09:31:32 <andythenorth> Dunno what to do about general cargo 09:31:55 <andythenorth> RH has all of box, bulk, and open trucks 09:32:12 <andythenorth> Which overlap somewhat,nbut give visual choices 09:32:48 <andythenorth> Open trucks refit absolutely everything 09:33:08 <andythenorth> I have some kind of box ship 09:33:26 <andythenorth> But bulk and open might be same for ships 09:39:20 <andythenorth> :o http://maritime-executive.com/media/images/article/Photos/Vessels_Large/Cropped/imoto%20lines%20container%20ship%2016x9.jpg 09:41:56 <Alberth> :D 09:42:26 <Flygon> Jetfreighter 09:43:04 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 09:48:26 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 09:51:12 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 09:55:01 *** Arveen has quit IRC 10:05:07 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 10:13:44 <argoneus> good morning train friends 10:15:40 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 10:20:46 <Alberth> o/ 10:23:00 <frosch123> moi 10:47:10 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 10:55:21 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 11:14:57 *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd 11:32:54 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 11:48:30 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 11:49:10 <andythenorth_> 'Ship' or 'trader', 'coaster', 'barge' etc for names? 11:49:43 <Alberth> if you don't mind reality, there is no reason not to put the steering wheel at the front of the ship :) 11:50:05 <Alberth> "Ship" is a bit stupid, isn't it? 11:50:12 <andythenorth_> Probably 11:50:18 <andythenorth_> 'Bulk ship' 11:50:59 <Alberth> bulk carrier ? not sure if that even exists :) 11:51:16 <andythenorth_> Bulk Carrier is a thing 11:51:36 <andythenorth_> Orders of magnitude bigger than ttd sizes though 11:51:48 <Alberth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulk_carrier bulk freighter also used for it 11:53:30 <Alberth> "bulker", also nice :) 11:54:49 <andythenorth_> 'Freighter' works 11:55:21 <Alberth> you seem to have covered all the usual names https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_ship 11:55:26 <andythenorth_> There are two sizes, dunno if they need 'large" and 'small' 11:58:50 <andythenorth_> Probably not, the visual difference will be obvious 12:05:36 <Alberth> unless the visual size and cargo capacity don't match :p 12:06:54 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 12:08:21 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 12:09:11 <andythenorth_> Hmm 12:09:32 <andythenorth_> I have a workable scheme and some sketches 12:10:00 <andythenorth_> Ships for piece goods, bulk, maybe flat-deck 12:10:09 <andythenorth_> Special types also 12:10:34 <andythenorth_> But there is the problem of unknown cargos :p 12:11:26 <andythenorth_> Might need an 'all cargos' ship :| 12:12:19 *** andythen_ has joined #openttd 12:12:19 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 12:14:57 <Alberth> the 'any ship' :) 12:19:26 <andythen_> Dunno what it should look like 12:20:21 <andythen_> Problem is how to show cargo, which might be in holds, on deck, or 'unknown' 12:21:56 * andythen_ has an idea 12:25:52 <Alberth> make a generic container-ish thing? 12:26:07 <Alberth> or big stacks of crates or so 12:26:16 <Alberth> looks always nice 12:27:52 *** andythen_ has quit IRC 12:28:24 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 12:31:09 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 12:35:02 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 12:49:29 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 12:57:30 *** zeknurn has joined #openttd 13:10:28 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 13:17:35 *** JacobD88 has quit IRC 13:47:30 *** Gja has joined #openttd 14:01:07 *** gelignite has quit IRC 14:13:04 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 14:20:04 <argoneus> andy then 14:20:05 <argoneus> andy now 14:22:28 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 14:23:03 <andythenorth> Should river be player-buildable? o_O 14:23:35 <Alberth> just use canal? 14:25:22 <debdog> sometimes it'd be nice to be able to move a river out of the way to build tracks 14:25:28 <andythenorth> Looks ugly :) 14:25:36 <andythenorth> Newgrf perhaps? 14:26:33 <Alberth> a canal newgrf with river-ish sprites would work :) 14:27:03 <andythenorth> CanalTypes :p 14:27:32 <Alberth> but mankind typically builds long straight rectangular things :p 14:44:05 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 14:45:50 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 14:47:56 <andythenorth> Just tankers left to figure out :p 14:48:42 <andythenorth> In a ship set where max size is ~600t, is there any case for tanker that is >600t? 14:48:48 <Alberth> big tanker, small tanker :p 14:48:51 <andythenorth> Specific to oil rig service? 14:49:07 <Alberth> seems nice to have 14:49:31 <Alberth> or you decide that the default set is not important :p 14:49:32 <andythenorth> I think FIRS rigs can get to ~800t / month 14:51:24 <andythenorth> Hmm 14:51:48 <andythenorth> But if bigger for oil, why not bigger for iron ore, coal, wood... 14:53:00 <Alberth> then it's not an exception for oil rigs? :) 14:53:28 <Alberth> but obviously, lots of 600t ships works too 14:53:46 <Alberth> maybe even nicer, as the oilrig gets lots of visits, and they like that 14:54:15 <andythenorth> I rarely use any big ships in Squid 14:54:30 <andythenorth> Not common to have that much output 14:54:55 *** Tharbakim has quit IRC 15:00:06 <frosch123> we clearny need a 1600t edible tanker 15:03:29 <Alberth> that would be sufficient food :) 15:05:01 <andythenorth> Can you eat that much tanker? :p 15:07:03 <Alberth> frosch123: I have updated the fios rewrite patch https://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/diffs/fios_rewrite/ 130 adds a console file list cache, so up to that could be added to trunk, the other things still need a destination/use. I am in no hurry, so if you're doing something else, we can discuss this next week too 15:07:25 <Alberth> with a big enough city, you can eat anything :p 15:07:35 <andythenorth> Bbl 15:08:17 <Alberth> bye andy 15:08:25 <V453000> so max has ultra shitty edge detection and blender has super shitty shadow rendering XD 15:08:29 <V453000> tough choice 15:09:08 <Alberth> luckily, they're both good at something :p 15:09:29 <V453000> yeah but I need them to do both of those things well 15:09:50 <Alberth> likely you do 15:10:33 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 15:11:05 <frosch123> what's the reasoning behind 40? how do you define filetype and abstractfiletype? 15:11:36 <frosch123> 60: typo in commit message 15:11:54 <Alberth> abstract is high level idea "heightmap", "save game" 15:12:08 <Alberth> file type is the detailed version, a PNG heightmap 15:12:18 <Alberth> or OLD savegame 15:13:06 <Alberth> ie you want to load a heightmap in the gui, and not a png heightmap only 15:13:34 <Alberth> this is why the thingie that the gui uses has no detailed file type 15:13:56 <frosch123> ok :) 15:14:03 <Alberth> there are 3 concepts, and we have 3 or so enums with 2 of them 15:14:16 <frosch123> 70: why is the numeric value if FT_INVALID important? 15:15:16 <Alberth> there are invalid files? :) png files, but no png compiled into the program, I guess 15:15:39 <frosch123> no, i mean, why does it need to be 7? 15:16:03 <Alberth> oh, max number we ever need? later I attach 3 bits to it 15:21:32 <Alberth> hmm, we could also have an * wildcard value for each enum, and always have a triplet, although it would be weird if at some point it's not *, but some other value 15:22:39 <frosch123> 120: when moving BuildFileList, also fix the coding style :p 15:22:46 <frosch123> (more \n in the switch) 15:25:55 <Alberth> it's fixed in the final result, so I rewrite it at some pont 15:27:25 <Alberth> in 150 15:32:07 <frosch123> ok, i read it all. but i don't see why you need to encode the enums into a integer 15:32:13 <frosch123> why not just a struct? 15:33:45 <Alberth> This seemed like the easiest approach in not killing all switches over those enums, mostly 15:34:31 <Alberth> Although, I didn't check how much chaos that would cause, tbh 15:35:11 <frosch123> they seem to be hardly used 15:35:22 <frosch123> i think you already touched all the places where they are used :p 15:36:15 <Alberth> most at least, probably 15:36:49 <Alberth> but I did that in 2 patches, otherwise I could not handle it 15:36:53 <frosch123> the SLA_ ones are used more often, the SL_ ones hardly 15:37:43 <Alberth> well, it is of course feasible to now always pass the separate concepts, instead of passing a combination of them in an integer 15:39:22 <Alberth> with or without wrapping them in a struct 15:40:51 <Alberth> but I was already quite glad I managed to get there :) 15:40:54 *** Tharbakim has joined #openttd 15:42:10 <Alberth> SLA_* aren't even mine :) 15:47:01 <Alberth> FIOS_TYPE seems still be used, I didn't venture into the low level fios things 15:53:51 <frosch123> there seem to be about 30 usages of the SL_xxx all together in trunk 15:54:42 <frosch123> so, i wonder whether to replace those places, instead of adding functions to merge the stuff into a single value again 15:55:36 <Alberth> sure 15:55:46 <Alberth> I'll look into it 15:55:54 *** tokai has joined #openttd 15:55:54 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 15:56:05 <frosch123> stuff looks nice though :) 15:57:02 <Alberth> lots of puzzling, why is it like this? I don't understand! :) 15:57:47 <Alberth> Cleaned out a few globals, although there are lots more 15:58:00 <Alberth> but it helps :) 15:58:11 <frosch123> well, i can't wait for FT_SCREENSHOT :p 15:58:57 <Alberth> does that make sense? you can't even decide what an image is 15:59:01 <frosch123> i always have to rename screensots manually 15:59:28 <frosch123> because i cannot enter a filename inside ottd 15:59:29 <Alberth> oh, I just grab the screen :) 15:59:47 <Alberth> or a part of it, more commonly 16:00:02 <frosch123> i always press ctrl+s, go to ~/.openttd/screenshot, do ls -ltr, and rename the files to something meaningful 16:00:24 <Alberth> until you have 50 of those :) 16:02:37 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 16:40:54 *** Snail has joined #openttd 16:54:32 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 16:54:47 *** supermop__ has joined #openttd 17:01:09 *** supermop_ has quit IRC 17:02:47 <andythenorth> supermop__: iz troll 17:02:58 <andythenorth> canada is a sovereign nation :p 17:03:29 <andythenorth> land your tanks on the beach in vancouver, canadian tanks come and shoot at you 17:03:49 <andythenorth> land your tanks in hong kong, chinese tanks come and shoot at you 17:09:06 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 17:11:58 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 17:13:57 *** glx has joined #openttd 17:13:57 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 17:24:13 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 17:30:28 *** NoShlomo has joined #openttd 17:30:38 <MonkeyDrone> hello homosapiens o/ 17:31:13 <frosch123> hoi mammal 17:39:44 <planetmaker> \o 17:51:52 <MonkeyDrone> i am a monkey, not a mammal. Thank you very much! 17:53:14 <frosch123> sounds like you are an alien 17:53:19 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 17:53:22 <frosch123> if you do not know that monkeys are mammals 17:53:53 <frosch123> hmm, or a computer 17:57:53 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 17:58:29 <andythenorth_> Things learnt 17:58:40 <andythenorth_> 1. Romans had wine tanker ships 17:58:58 <andythenorth_> 2. Standardised wine bottle was invented in Bristol 17:59:39 <andythenorth_> 3. 'Tons' originates from 'tuns', large containers of wine carried by ships 17:59:42 <frosch123> in bristol? 18:00:08 <andythenorth_> 4. WW1 had wine tanker trains running to the battle lines 18:00:09 <frosch123> i have never heard about wine from uk 18:00:18 <andythenorth_> We imported it :p 18:00:40 <frosch123> ah, so you bottled the stuff from the edible tanker 18:00:50 <andythenorth_> Yeah 18:01:05 <andythenorth_> My office building used to be a cork warehouse 18:01:20 <andythenorth_> Cork was imported from portugal, used to bottle wine 18:02:06 <andythenorth_> Seems wine shipping is more important than I knew :p 18:02:54 <frosch123> i wondered about a combination of tanker and tug boat 18:03:48 <frosch123> like transporting low density liquid in self-swimming containers behind the boat 18:04:02 <andythenorth_> big floating barrels? :) 18:04:27 <frosch123> yeah, bunch of barrels in some net, 18:04:31 <andythenorth_> Probably more a V thing than andy thing ;) 18:04:35 <frosch123> s/net/mesh/ 18:04:44 <andythenorth_> V should shipz 18:09:15 <Alberth> they do that with logs of wood :) 18:10:15 <andythenorth_> I like this one, with round tanks on deck https://static.vesselfinder.net/ship-photo/9402653-245405000-7ca6babd2a94cfd486449147c7ad4728/0 18:11:01 <Alberth> clearly you should not provide cargo ships for ordinary cargo, only for special stuff that looks good 18:11:10 <frosch123> horizontal tanks are certainly unusual 18:11:14 <frosch123> which makes it good :) 18:12:01 <Alberth> I would not be surprised if that's something of an industry that is being built somewhere 18:13:30 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 18:14:00 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 18:14:12 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 18:15:42 <andythenorth_> Nah, it's edible oil tanker, they tend to have extra deck tanks 18:16:08 <andythenorth_> Dunno why 18:16:34 *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd 18:17:54 <andythenorth_> http://maritime-connector.com/ships_uploads/oranjestad-8828343-vegetable-animal_oil_tanker-9-140815.jpg 18:18:16 <andythenorth_> Cheap conversion from cargo ship :p 18:21:27 <Alberth> so many unique ships :) 18:23:26 <frosch123> does that count as open lids? 18:23:55 <frosch123> hmm, i guess it's just a river boat 18:24:21 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 18:24:28 <frosch123> it looked so tall, but considering the cabin it is actually small 18:25:31 *** JacobD88 has quit IRC 18:39:04 *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd 18:50:52 *** aard has joined #openttd 18:51:31 *** keoz has quit IRC 18:54:05 *** Clockworker_ has joined #openttd 18:55:39 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd 18:58:20 *** supermop___ has joined #openttd 19:01:59 *** Clockworker has quit IRC 19:01:59 *** aard_ has joined #openttd 19:01:59 *** supermop__ has quit IRC 19:02:24 *** glx_ has joined #openttd 19:02:24 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx_ 19:03:46 *** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd 19:03:46 *** xQR has quit IRC 19:04:05 *** zeknurn` has joined #openttd 19:04:18 *** TrueBrain_ has joined #openttd 19:04:32 *** guru3 has quit IRC 19:04:32 *** zeknurn has quit IRC 19:04:32 *** TrueBrain has quit IRC 19:04:32 *** zeknurn` is now 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