Log for #openttd on 15th September 2016:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:10:30  <Samu> i got trouble with removing unused buoys
00:10:34  <Samu> t.t
00:14:18  <Samu> buoys now got owners
00:14:25  <Samu> owners none
00:15:05  <Samu> when a company bankrupts, i can't remove buoys by the owner of the tile under the buoy
00:15:31  <Samu> the feature was nice
00:15:41  <Samu> but now... i need a workaround
00:16:27  <Samu> what gets removed first? vehicles or stations?
00:24:13  *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC
00:34:31  <Samu> vehicles get removed first t.t
00:39:33  *** Samu has quit IRC
00:49:32  *** supermop has joined #openttd
01:19:04  *** JezK_ has joined #openttd
01:31:53  *** supermop has quit IRC
01:57:50  <Lejving> holy shit V453000 I just found the openttdcoop wiki, your junctions and stations are just so fucking insane
02:55:42  *** mindlesstux_ has joined #openttd
02:56:35  <Eddi|zuHause> yes.
02:58:36  *** Flygon has joined #openttd
03:00:40  *** mindlesstux has quit IRC
03:00:40  *** mindlesstux_ is now known as mindlesstux
03:14:10  *** sim-al2 is now known as Guest431
03:14:11  *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd
03:19:12  *** Guest431 has quit IRC
04:43:11  *** Lejving has quit IRC
05:11:56  *** Trainfever has joined #openttd
05:16:16  *** Trainfever has quit IRC
06:00:33  *** Biolunar has joined #openttd
06:07:19  *** DorpsGek has quit IRC
06:11:50  *** zeknurn has joined #openttd
06:14:37  *** orudge has quit IRC
06:44:15  *** sim-al2 has quit IRC
06:50:28  *** orudge has joined #openttd
06:56:38  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
07:03:54  *** Progman has joined #openttd
07:19:43  *** andythenorth has left #openttd
07:35:53  *** supermop_ has quit IRC
07:38:01  *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd
07:38:18  <Wolf01> Moin
07:56:08  <Wolf01> Desktop apps converted to appx started to appear on the Windows Store, the thing I really like is that the converted apps use their own registry to store info and don't leave trash behind when uninstalled
07:58:35  <Wolf01> The thing I don't like is that everything is installed inside your user folder (default)
08:15:09  *** DDR has quit IRC
08:15:32  *** DDR has joined #openttd
08:22:02  *** JezK_ has quit IRC
08:23:41  *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd
08:31:37  *** JacobD88 has quit IRC
08:51:13  *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd
08:51:25  *** tokai has joined #openttd
08:51:25  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
08:58:03  *** tokai|noir has quit IRC
09:27:18  *** NoShlomo has joined #openttd
10:02:28  <Wolf01> Isn't this like Zuu's one?
10:18:21  <peter1138> What's an appx?
10:18:36  <peter1138> When did computer software become "desktop apps"?
10:18:56  <Wolf01> Appx are the Store apps
10:19:17  <Wolf01> Which aren't real "desktop" apps
10:22:49  <Wolf01> With the Desktop App Converter you can wrap a classic desktop app in a boxed environment, not so limited like the appx ones
10:23:59  <Wolf01> For example you can move an appx from a drive to another without uninstalling it (you need to do it from a panel, not from the file explorer) and keeping all the data untouched
10:25:07  <Wolf01> You could even make a wrapper installer for OTTD, which should work exactly as it does now
10:25:32  <Wolf01> Just a way to distribute classic software via Windows Store
10:26:36  <Wolf01> Also, some sort of DRM...
10:28:08  *** DorpsGek has joined #openttd
10:28:08  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DorpsGek
10:37:23  *** Samu has joined #openttd
10:47:40  <Samu> hi
10:48:43  <Flygon> Wolf01, I have zero idea what you just said about anything
10:48:52  <Flygon> That's how much I've avoided Win10 @_@
10:50:09  <Wolf01> I wouldn't go back
10:52:30  <Flygon> To 7 or 10? :P
10:52:44  <Flygon> Though, my main concerns are the forced updates
11:03:31  <Wolf01> To <10
11:07:16  <Samu> im on windows 10
11:08:39  <Samu> openttd isn't ready for windows 10, needs a compatibility thing
11:08:39  <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> When did computer software become "desktop apps"? <-- i don't think that development was avoidable...
11:09:10  <Samu> then it works flawlessly
11:10:13  <Eddi|zuHause> the main problem is that the gap between people who write software and people who use software widens, making it more difficult to cross over. computer software becomes "magic" for most people
11:11:32  <Samu> @logs
11:11:32  <DorpsGek> Samu:
11:12:44  <Samu> bah nobody answered me yesterday night
11:17:49  <Samu> i think i've dealt with buoys bankrupting
11:17:52  <Samu> must test
11:19:44  <Samu> only a few buoys bankrupt, right?
11:32:59  <argoneus> good afternoon train friends
11:33:02  <argoneus> anyone here using windows 10?
11:33:15  <argoneus> wondering if I should upgrade from 7, the ubuntu subsystem thing looks cool
11:38:27  <Flygon> Wolf01: Scuse the delay, been trying to fix some computer issues <_>
11:38:55  <peter1138> buoys bankrupt? what?
11:41:03  <Flygon> Eddi|zuHause: I have the opposite problem. Higher level programming languages look like magic to me. And higher level dev tools.
11:41:11  <Flygon> I look at Unity and think "HOW IS THAT CPU NOT DEAD"
11:42:10  <Wolf01> <Samu> openttd isn't ready for windows 10, needs a compatibility thing <- WTF?
11:42:17  *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
11:43:19  <Wolf01> argoneus, yeah, some days ago I used the Ubuntu subsystem to download a repository, as the Git for Windows doesn't seem to work well
11:43:55  <Wolf01> And SVN doesn't know about Git submodules
11:49:47  <Wolf01> Bah, another site RSS broken
11:53:15  <Wolf01> peter1138, Flygon:
11:54:32  <argoneus> Wolf01: is win10 good then?
11:54:38  <Wolf01> I really like it
11:55:08  <Flygon> Oh man
11:55:14  <Flygon> I forgot how popular VB6 is still
11:55:25  <argoneus> Wolf01: can you do like
11:55:29  <argoneus> code in VS and compile with G++?
11:55:30  <argoneus> g++
11:55:37  <Wolf01> Why not?
11:55:44  <argoneus> good question
11:55:47  <argoneus> okay you convinced me
11:57:04  <Wolf01> You can't use GCC compiler on VS, but you can use it externally
11:57:16  <Wolf01> But still develop on VS
11:58:19  <Wolf01> Also, since I'm a Lumia user, I can benefit from the integration (save a login on Edge desktop and have the login available on phone) and share AppData between desktop and phone (like my RSS reader app does)
12:14:30  <Samu> Wolf01: needs some dpi scalling stuff
12:14:54  <Wolf01> That console thing?
12:15:02  <Samu> else mouse scrolling is erratic
12:15:14  <Samu> mouse positioning issues
12:15:15  <Wolf01> You set high DPI on windows?
12:15:22  <Samu> yes´
12:15:36  <Wolf01> So, every other "old" game does need a fix
12:15:52  <Wolf01> But that's even on XP
12:16:05  <Samu> let me find
12:16:08  <Wolf01> I had that problem on StarCraft
12:16:09  <Samu> i made a post about it
12:16:50  <Samu>
12:18:29  <Samu> speaking of mouse positioning
12:19:06  <Samu> a recent patch about dragging vehicles over the selling icon on depots is kinda bugged when the vehicled is dragged
12:19:30  <Samu> the cursor is mispositioned
12:22:59  <Samu> i tried selling a very large ship
12:23:11  <Samu> Squid ate fish FISH 2.0.2
12:23:18  <Samu> it's very noticeable
12:24:37  <Samu> unsure is it's windows issue only
12:26:28  <Samu> peter1138: buoys bankrupt, i mean when buoys are placed on canals, and a company bankrupts, the buoy is removed is it's not being in use
12:26:47  <Samu> the buoy is removed if* typo
12:27:31  <Samu> tile owner of a buoy is the same as the owner of the water tile
12:27:44  <Samu> it's some weird stuff openttd is doing
12:28:17  <Samu> i'm trying to maintain this functionality now that I can set canal owners independently
12:29:21  <Samu> problem i am having is that tile owner of buoys is OWNER_NONE now
12:29:42  <Samu> a bankrupt won't remove buoys like it used to
12:30:07  <Samu> i am trying a workaround, and so far it seems to be working
12:30:12  <Samu> doing what it used to do
12:32:32  *** Arveen has joined #openttd
12:35:04  *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd
12:38:02  <Samu> trying this
12:38:18  <Samu> before the 	if (!IsTileOwner(tile, old_owner)) return; line
12:47:39  *** tycoondemon has quit IRC
12:49:55  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
12:49:57  <andythenorth> o/
12:55:25  <Eddi|zuHause>
13:29:47  *** Mazur has quit IRC
13:29:49  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
13:30:23  *** Mazur has joined #openttd
13:31:00  <Wolf01> Eddi, in plain english TL;DR?
13:32:42  <V453000> Pay taxes and shut the fuck up.
13:33:50  <V453000> also how are them biterz?
13:35:24  <Wolf01> No idea, the game has been sitting there for 2-3 days
13:37:35  <Wolf01> Mmmh, I'm not able to parse a website... it comes with a really strange encoding which is undetectable
13:37:53  <Wolf01> But the browser shows it without problems
13:38:17  <Wolf01> Maybe some gzip compression, but it should be handled automatically by the library
13:41:07  *** sim-al2 has quit IRC
13:43:57  *** Biolunar has quit IRC
13:57:53  *** NoShlomo has quit IRC
14:01:34  *** Cursarion has quit IRC
14:01:34  *** Cursarion has joined #openttd
14:01:48  <Wolf01> Thunderstorm. BBL
14:01:50  *** Wolf01 has quit IRC
14:15:53  <Eddi|zuHause> i only know Thunderstruck...
14:21:17  *** keoz has joined #openttd
14:22:51  *** Lejving has joined #openttd
14:25:05  *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd
14:26:00  <Wolf01> Mmmh, server dead again, manual action required :P
14:53:55  *** DDR has quit IRC
14:55:07  *** DDR has joined #openttd
15:03:13  <Samu> there are two behaviours for placing water structures
15:03:42  <Samu> dock and ship depot have different ways to check for water
15:04:19  <Samu> docks want the the tile to really be of type water
15:04:37  <Samu> ship depots wants the tile to have water on the ground
15:04:58  <Samu> there are objects that can be placed on water
15:05:06  <Samu> they can be cleared
15:05:33  <Samu> i think has water on the ground is a better behaviour
15:31:14  <V453000> My ass is grass.
15:35:56  *** Alberth has joined #openttd
15:35:56  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth
15:36:09  <Alberth> moin
15:36:37  <V453000> yo
15:43:54  *** TheMask96 has quit IRC
15:46:41  <Samu> dock code is .. quite diversified
15:48:14  *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd
15:51:52  *** supermop has joined #openttd
15:52:42  <Alberth> likely, there are more such places in openttd code :)
15:53:10  *** ElleKitty has joined #openttd
15:54:36  <supermop> yo
15:55:52  <Samu> cost of placing a dock was not counting the price for clearing the slope tile
16:01:29  <Alberth> can you place a dock on anything not-clear?
16:01:40  <Alberth> not sure I ever tried that
16:03:48  <Samu> can place on road bit
16:03:53  <Samu> with foundation
16:05:53  <Alberth> interesting
16:09:05  *** Arveen has quit IRC
16:11:08  <Samu> okay i think i fixed it
16:11:21  <Samu> cost.AddCost(ret); thingy
16:14:11  <Samu> yes, it's there now, building with medium costs on a coastal tile is £390 now, up from £350
16:20:56  <Samu> CmdBuildDock code is now similar in behaviour to that of ship depot
16:22:32  <Samu> CmdBuildBuoy code needs to be adjusted too
16:23:34  <Samu> erm... maybe not
16:23:59  <Samu> buoys can be placed on anyone's canal already
16:24:15  <Samu> and anyone can remove the buoys
16:24:47  <Samu> let me verify
16:25:49  <Samu> confirmed
16:37:04  <Samu> why would you ensure no vehicle on ground on dock tiles?
16:37:15  <Samu> there is no tracks on the dock tiles
16:37:45  <Alberth> there are ships
16:37:47  <Samu> think i can safely delete this part of the code, unless im missing something
16:37:57  <Samu> that's at the 3rd tile
16:38:09  <Samu> but the code checks the 1st and 2nd tiles
16:38:28  <Alberth> well, no idea then
16:39:02  <Alberth> you may want to check the commit message that was given while the check was added, that might gives some clues (sometimes)
16:39:37  <Alberth> unless it's r1 :p
16:40:13  <Samu> hmm station_cmd.cpp is a biiig file,
16:40:24  <Samu> how do i check commit message stuff?
16:40:25  <Samu> i forgot
16:41:37  <Alberth> yep, only newgrf.cpp is bigger in "src" (by a factor 2, even)
16:42:23  <Alberth> check when the lines were last changed (with "blame"), check if that commit just modified them or really added them
16:42:59  <Alberth> if modified, check out the parent of that commit, repeat the steps
16:43:41  <Alberth> if you have a nice version control gui, like thg, you can do this in the gui
16:45:23  <Samu> i use tortoise svn, not sure if this is what u mean
16:45:40  <Alberth> never mind, it's not likely to work
16:52:50  *** srhnsn has joined #openttd
16:55:06  *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
16:55:14  *** keoz has quit IRC
16:57:05  <Alberth> hola
16:58:38  *** glx has joined #openttd
16:58:39  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx
17:05:37  <frosch123> hoi
17:26:10  *** JacobD88 has quit IRC
17:27:48  *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd
17:28:03  *** JacobD88 has quit IRC
17:29:20  *** smoke_fumus has joined #openttd
17:37:40  <NGC3982> What did i just do to ECS
17:38:06  <NGC3982> A newly created train visited a Steel Plant and it is spontaniously creating coal, without something creating coal.
17:38:13  <NGC3982>
17:38:28  <NGC3982> Oh.
17:38:31  <NGC3982> Wait what
17:38:43  <NGC3982> Yes, it does. What!
17:48:37  *** Gja has joined #openttd
17:52:45  *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
18:12:21  *** Macha has joined #openttd
18:18:51  <Samu>;a=blame;f=src/station_cmd.cpp;h=eb90c29ab53427448a293b325ebbeb89f4834028;hb=737897653ae3cf6d3cd98728fd111528f2b4c8bd
18:18:57  <Samu> is this the blame thing, Alberth ?
18:19:32  <Alberth> looks like it
18:20:52  <Samu> why is it called blame?
18:21:32  <Samu> author alberth <>
18:21:38  <Samu> you're the guy to blame then?
18:22:14  <Samu> 13th march 2010
18:22:25  <Alberth> If I committed a line of code, and that line appears to be faulty, then it is said I am to blame for that line
18:22:42  <Alberth> line number?
18:22:47  *** Samu has quit IRC
18:22:50  <Macha> Because that's what svn called it that. SVN probably called it that because of cvs (I don't actually know if cvs blame existed). And the original one was less diplomatic with nming that command :p
18:22:59  *** Samu has joined #openttd
18:23:00  <Samu> oops
18:23:05  <Alberth> line number?
18:23:07  <Macha> Because that's what svn called it that. SVN probably called it that because of cvs (I don't actually know if cvs blame existed). And the original one was less diplomatic with nming that command :p
18:23:11  <Samu> 2567, 2568, 2569
18:23:15  <Macha> (Resending since Samu dropped)
18:25:10  <Alberth> It's not that simple
18:25:13  <Samu> ships can never go into the tile1, tile2 is questionable
18:25:38  <Alberth> If you look at the patch of that commit, you can see I just changed the line, I didn't add it new
18:25:54  <Alberth> so, someone before my change added it
18:25:55  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
18:26:35  <Alberth> you have to look at the parent revision, and go back further, until you find the commit that really added the line
18:26:46  <Alberth> o/ andy
18:27:01  <andythenorth> lo
18:29:40  <andythenorth> @seen BADFEATURES
18:29:40  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: I have not seen BADFEATURES.
18:33:47  <Alberth> apparantly, v8 had more than just bad features :p
18:34:48  <Alberth> maybe add some zoomed 8bpp sprites? :)
18:34:58  <andythenorth> ha ha
18:35:06  <andythenorth> I should redraw everything at 2x
18:35:12  <andythenorth> I considered teach PIL to do it
18:35:19  <andythenorth> teaching *
18:35:43  <Alberth> there is a 2x transform algorithm, that'd be simpler :p
18:35:56  <andythenorth> why take the easy route? :P
18:36:09  <Alberth> true :)
18:36:10  <andythenorth> I could find some really complex rules about interpolating missing pixels
18:36:24  <Alberth> I am sure you could :D
18:36:29  <andythenorth> based on the known ranges of colours in the palette (most are 8 similar shades)
18:36:44  <andythenorth> also detecting ‘this is a brick wall’ etc
18:36:59  <Alberth> haha, context-aware zooming :)
18:37:02  <V453000> U SHIT BRIX?
18:37:21  <andythenorth> does BRIX have enough BAD FEATURES?
18:37:29  <V453000> it doesn't have features :D
18:37:35  <andythenorth> THAT IS BAD
18:37:35  <Alberth> haha :)
18:37:43  <andythenorth> ULTIMATE BAD FEATURE
18:37:47  <V453000> only parameters for disabling some sprites
18:37:51  <V453000> haha
18:38:00  <Alberth> could be, but it's not a bad feature, due to lack of features :)
18:38:01  <V453000> no, it means it's the ideal newgrf
18:38:17  <Alberth> obviously :)
18:38:31  <V453000> makez sense
18:38:53  <andythenorth> ultimate newgrf is 4,500 vehicles
18:38:56  <Samu> i went all the way back to 2007-01-10
18:39:05  <Samu> ensurenovehicle on ground is there
18:39:06  <andythenorth> each one an individual example of one type of engine
18:39:12  <andythenorth> but with accurate numbers and livery
18:39:35  <V453000> with varying rivets?
18:39:50  <Alberth> Samu: in r1?  wow, that means most likely it was in the original program
18:39:56  <Samu> there is no more history before 2007-01-10...
18:40:06  <Samu> (svn r8033)
18:40:16  <Alberth> ah
18:40:44  <Alberth> we lost about 900 revisions before r1, so theoretically, it could be added there, but not likely
18:40:48  <Samu> it was the first time station_cmd.cpp was created?
18:40:57  <Eddi|zuHause> <V453000> no, it means it's the ideal newgrf <-- that's always the "solve all humanities problems by killing all humans" approach that is featured in so many science fiction movies
18:41:19  <Alberth> Samu: euhm, it was a .c file first, the file got renamed alomng the way
18:41:37  <Samu> oh, there's more then
18:41:48  <Alberth> perhaps :)
18:42:29  <V453000> it's valid Eddi|zuHause
18:42:59  <V453000> make everyone happy by killing the unhappy
18:43:03  <Alberth> and it makes great movies :p
18:44:40  <Samu> 2004-08-09 truelight (svn r1)
18:44:46  <Samu> this is r1?
18:44:47  <Samu> ok lets see
18:46:08  <supermop> andythenorth: photoshop -> image size -> 200% -> bicubic smoother -> good enough?
18:46:26  <Alberth> nah, too eazy :)
18:46:35  *** gelignite has joined #openttd
18:46:58  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: that probably has issues with transparency
18:47:32  <Samu>;a=blob;f=station_cmd.c;h=e903d4eccd5feb67ecc366f903ad878f6ee6b5bc;hb=efaeb275f78e18d594d9ee8ff04eccd2dc59512c#l1653
18:47:40  <Samu> it's there on r1, what does this mean?
18:48:16  <Samu> no one knew ships couldn't go through docks?
18:48:33  <V453000> andythenorth: just upscale to 400% with nearest neighbour and declare it x4 zoom
18:48:34  <V453000> eazy
18:48:40  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: like with road tiles you want to treat it as if the road continues on the other side, but with vehicles you need the transparent pixels treated as "not there at all"
18:48:54  <Macha> HQ4X! :p
18:49:13  <Eddi|zuHause> Macha: has the same issues
18:50:08  <andythenorth> it still needs to look pixelated
18:50:12  <Eddi|zuHause> we used to have a hq2x patch that worked on the whole screen, but that had the problem that it distorted the text a bit
18:50:17  <andythenorth> that means drawing pixel style, but bigger
18:50:38  <Samu> is there other vehicles that can walk into the dock pier?
18:52:42  <supermop> V453000: are your little trains now using layers for cc?
18:52:57  <V453000> not currently, BRIX is graphics only
18:53:07  <V453000> via replace things
18:53:14  <supermop> i see
18:53:15  <V453000> but the new train set will probably
18:53:32  <V453000> andythenorth: nearest neighbour! :P
18:53:35  <supermop> could 'shading' be added as a layer?
18:53:43  <V453000> well yeah but why?
18:53:53  <supermop> crazy schemes
18:54:24  <supermop> doesnt make sense for rendered sprites that much but..
18:54:43  <Samu> okay let me ask in a different way
18:55:03  <Samu> have you ever had docks not being removed from the world when a company bankrupted?
18:56:18  <supermop> what if i draw a little train in 12 different liveries or whatever, and instead of getting the shading right on each one there is some kind of mask or layer that puts the same shading on over whatever the background colors are
18:56:27  <Samu> if i understand the code, vehicles are removed first
18:56:35  <Samu> then stations are removed
18:56:43  <V453000> ah I see what you want to do
18:56:47  <Samu> but if there are more ships, of other companies
18:57:12  <V453000> I think you could pretty much do that with just the mask working correctly
18:57:15  <Samu> the code is gonna try to remove the dock and check if there's a vehicle on those tiles
18:57:40  <Samu> code isn't prepared to ignore vehicle checking on bankrupt
18:57:58  <Samu> if you never seen docks staying behing when a company bankrupts
18:58:05  <Samu> then these 3 lines can be removed
18:58:08  <supermop> then you could have the insane possibility to change light via newgrf param? australian sun from north, sunset light low in the west, night time shading overall
18:58:10  <Samu> they do nothing
18:58:17  <V453000> supermop: the mask mostly influences only the colour, but the brighness of the sprite under it has big effect
18:58:30  <V453000> the brightness does change a bit with different 8bpp colours used, but still
18:58:40  <V453000> lol
18:59:03  <supermop> this idea popped into my head while walking home last night looking at pretty sky
18:59:07  <V453000> probably more reasonable to just render it as separate sprites as a whole supermop :D
18:59:11  <V453000> but yeah XD
18:59:32  <supermop> buildings always look better between 16:00 and 20:00
18:59:43  <supermop> not 10:30 or whatever tt is
19:00:19  <supermop> but sometimes british trains look cuter in late morning sun
19:00:35  <supermop> and american trains look more romantic at golden hour
19:01:26  <supermop> also - densha de D grf with trailing light vehicle effects?
19:01:42  <supermop> and sparks flying from wheels in turns
19:03:01  *** ElleKitty has quit IRC
19:03:16  <supermop>
19:05:28  <V453000> XD
19:05:29  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
19:05:38  <V453000> I am curious to see your product supermop :P
19:05:54  <supermop> product?
19:06:00  <supermop> of the bathroom hardware?
19:06:10  <supermop> towel hooks etc
19:08:48  <supermop> or the concrete flower pot?
19:09:10  <Alberth> no abstract flower pot?
19:12:23  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
19:12:37  <andythenorth> what shall I call my new RV set?
19:14:02  <andythenorth> clearly it’s time to abandon Road Hog
19:14:19  <supermop> pig in a poke?
19:15:06  <andythenorth> good answer
19:15:37  <Alberth> +1
19:16:09  <supermop> although that would be a secret ship set sold as an rv set?
19:16:17  <andythenorth> ha ha
19:16:24  <andythenorth> RH has hit the 80:20 software problem
19:16:36  <andythenorth> actually not
19:16:45  <andythenorth> the remaining 20% won’t take 80% of the time
19:17:31  *** tycoondemon has joined #openttd
19:17:33  <andythenorth> but I’m bored of it
19:17:44  <andythenorth> 80% of the problems were interesting 20% are boring
19:21:45  <supermop> Alberth:
19:22:43  <Alberth> ha, nice :)
19:24:55  <andythenorth> bloody tramz
19:25:11  <andythenorth> silly pax vehicles
19:25:40  <supermop> andythenorth: i got a nice short of titanium ignots on a truck on there
19:25:59  <supermop>
19:26:20  <andythenorth> how much is one of those worth? o_O
19:31:20  <supermop> heavy enough that a flatbed can only carry two, not sure what market prices are today
19:31:52  <supermop> on that day i saw over 60 cars crashed or of the road on i-70 due to ice storm
19:31:57  <supermop> off
19:32:00  <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> 80% of the problems were interesting 20% are boring <-- and how does starting a new set solve that?
19:32:03  <supermop> and about 15 trucks
19:32:25  <supermop> so pretty good chance one of those would have rolled away into the woods
19:32:28  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: easy, I get to do the 80% interesting bits
19:32:37  <andythenorth> and the 20% gets kicked down the road
19:36:39  <andythenorth> partly, pax is very ‘meh'
19:36:48  <andythenorth> there’s no particular right or wrong to it
19:37:02  <andythenorth> transporting pax is only to keep town ratings up :P
19:37:22  *** ElleKitty has joined #openttd
19:38:33  <Eddi|zuHause> solution: make separate passenger and freight sets
19:38:57  <Eddi|zuHause> there's a distinct lack of separately usable truck sets anyway
19:41:10  <supermop> V453000: this one's for you
19:41:23  <V453000> nice
19:41:34  <Eddi|zuHause> those are not slugs
19:44:38  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: that’s a solution, but who makes the pax set? :P
19:44:55  <Alberth> grab random bus set?
19:44:57  * andythenorth fears it’s ‘andythenorth ‘
19:45:00  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: does that matter?
19:45:23  <Eddi|zuHause> there are a lot of bus and tram sets out there that lack in truck refinement
19:46:06  *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd
19:46:48  <andythenorth> I think they also lack in tram and bus refinement :P
19:47:37  <Eddi|zuHause> sure... different problems though :p
19:48:07  <Eddi|zuHause> solving different problems with the same software is a sign of bloatware
19:48:27  <andythenorth> ha ha
19:48:53  <supermop>
19:48:54  <andythenorth> I don’t think I can hide behind ‘bloatware is bad’ to defend myself from finishing the set
19:49:15  <supermop> tram stuck on insulator, so the following one had to ram it
19:50:03  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think "ram" is the correct way to describe this
19:50:47  <Eddi|zuHause> but, can't you just push the tram by hand? it's not that hard on a flat surface
19:51:08  <Eddi|zuHause> and on a non-flat surface you could just roll
19:53:37  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: apparently not. they had the one behind 'tap' the stuck one at very low speed and it still made a huge noise
19:54:27  <Eddi|zuHause> don't they have emergency-couplings at your place?
19:54:49  <supermop> 34 metric tons for that guy
19:55:19  <Eddi|zuHause> i believe our trams have that, you remove a front bit, pull out the coupling, and can mechanically couple two trams
19:55:28  <supermop> this was like 2 years ago when i lived in melbourne. never saw a coupler on a tram
19:55:36  <supermop> the new ones might have it
19:55:43  <Eddi|zuHause> (this is apparently easier than carrying a "proper" full coupling to the location)
19:56:03  <supermop> but these 80s ones only seem to have the anti-climber bar
19:56:09  <Eddi|zuHause> (the full coupling also has electric links)
19:56:31  <supermop> the melbourne trams also never run in multiple
19:56:50  <Eddi|zuHause> that's probably a difference... our trams were always meant to run in multiples
19:57:09  <supermop> so the new trams might have couplers, because they are based on regular combino or citadis or flexity trams
19:57:54  <supermop> but until about 1990 trams were built by a local company specifically for melbourne
19:58:32  <andythenorth> supermop: but are they 10/8, 12/8, 14/8 or 16/8? :P
19:58:48  <supermop> they do have heavy duty trucks there that i think can tow a tram
19:59:59  <supermop> but in this case, traffic was quickly backing up behind the tram, it is right at a square crossing (the insulator isolated the square)
20:00:42  <supermop> there was already 3 trams backed up behind, so they just got the cars out from between them, had all the passengers get off, then gave it a bump
20:08:36  <supermop> does newgrf spec allow for setting beer serving capacity in litres for trams?
20:08:37  <supermop>
20:16:27  *** Argensis has joined #openttd
20:21:20  *** keoz has joined #openttd
20:23:13  *** Macha has quit IRC
20:25:47  <andythenorth> option 1) all trams stay same length 1860-2010, and roughly same capacity
20:26:10  <andythenorth> option 2) trams get progressively longer 1860-2010 and capacity increases more substantially
20:26:15  <andythenorth> option 3) something else
20:27:23  <V453000> 40
20:27:28  <V453000> 4)*
20:32:29  *** Alberth has left #openttd
20:37:54  <andythenorth> if in doubt, do a poll
20:39:40  <frosch123> 1860: 50 pax, 30 km/h; 2010: 300 pax, 80 km/h ?
20:41:02  <andythenorth> something like that
20:41:19  <andythenorth> large capacity increases seem to demand longer sprites also
20:43:34  * andythenorth needs to understand the station blocking behaviour a bit more
20:43:50  <andythenorth> there must be better and worse tram lengths
20:44:07  <andythenorth> or is that over-thinking it?
20:44:12  <berndj> is any of the "online content" that i can download in-game executable? i'm not a fan of downloading random arbitrary execution vectors
20:44:26  <berndj> or is it just graphics and declarative stuff?
20:45:52  <Alkel_U3> Afaik it can't just do arbitrary stuff
20:46:21  <andythenorth> well it could
20:46:40  *** Gja has quit IRC
20:46:44  <andythenorth> I haven’t tried uploading anything malicious, but I don’t know how strictly bananas would check
20:47:30  <andythenorth> otoh you’re running openttd, which is an arbitrary attack vector also
20:48:18  <berndj> well that's at least a static threat; i'm running whatever debian offers me
20:48:45  * andythenorth must to bed
20:48:46  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
20:49:12  *** Progman_ has joined #openttd
20:50:08  <sim-al2> There shouldn't be anything executible, just .grf and .tar
20:50:41  *** Progman has quit IRC
20:50:41  *** Progman_ is now known as Progman
20:58:03  <Eddi|zuHause> berndj: some of the content is squirrel scripts
21:00:39  <supermop> whenever i post something on forums these days i feel like an old man
21:00:53  *** Rubidium_ is now known as Rubidium
21:01:00  <Rubidium> anything that is downloadable and actually defines things to do runs that in effectively a virtual machine. Neither of those have any direct access to disk, network or other processes. I cannot guarantee that there is no way you cannot cause some buffer overflow somewhere that causes code execution, but that risk you also have with purely static data.
21:05:18  *** frosch123 has quit IRC
21:08:01  <Flygon> I thought Trams got more capacity through  basically growing longer and gettng more space efficient
21:08:25  *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC
21:09:54  <Flygon> supermop: The Trams don't have any couplers. They basically have a bit underneath them that allows attaching a steel bar, that allows them to tow another Tram
21:09:56  <Flygon> But it is not a true coupler
21:11:42  <supermop> Flygon: yeah. when i saw that stuck one at gertrude and brunswick they didn't seem to have any inclination to wait for anyone come tow
21:12:13  <Flygon> As a personal note, it does bother me there is no spec for having couplers on
21:12:28  <Flygon> Considering Adelaide's classic Trams could always run in EMU configuation
21:17:52  *** Biolunar has joined #openttd
21:18:29  <Samu> waiting for an oil rig spawning
21:18:31  <Samu> zzz
21:21:18  <Samu> 0xc3 = 1100 0011
21:21:20  <Samu> good
21:22:03  <Samu> ox30 = 0011 0000
21:22:06  <Samu> good
21:23:09  <Samu> dbg: [misc] m6     = 0xc3
21:23:25  <Samu> dbg: [misc] m1     = 0x30
21:23:44  <Samu> dbg: [misc] type   = 0x60
21:24:09  <Samu> i wish the debugger would show these values as binary
21:26:48  <berndj> Rubidium, ah, thanks, that's about the answer i was hoping for
21:28:01  <glx> Samu: I think it can
21:28:47  <Samu> really' how?
21:29:08  <Samu> i wouldn't have to resort to a calculator for conversion
21:29:14  <glx> but those messages look like debug message generated by the game :)
21:30:26  <Samu> it's from the console window
21:30:55  <Samu> it opens up when visual studio launches Debug x64
21:31:03  <Samu> or win32
21:32:28  <glx> console window is from openttf
21:34:11  <glx> anyway a calculator isn't required to convert hexa to bin, it's easily doable in head
21:34:23  *** keoz has quit IRC
21:35:58  <glx> advantage of hexa vs decimal
21:36:16  <glx> and the alignment when printed
21:36:54  <Samu> omg i catched an oil rig spawn, brb
21:40:28  <Samu> founder is OWNE_NONE
21:40:47  <glx> yes oilrig have no owner
21:41:14  <glx> the station is usable by everyone
21:43:33  *** gelignite has quit IRC
21:45:09  <Flygon> As an incidental note
21:45:45  <Flygon> I'm mildly surprised players aren't allowed to build OWNE_NONE infrastructure. On the other hand, that does kinda cheat out of Infra. Maintainence.
21:46:49  <glx> yeah build a full rail network with no running costs ;)
21:52:56  *** Flygon has quit IRC
21:54:40  *** Flygon has joined #openttd
22:05:14  <Samu> industry_cmp.cpp code is confusing :(
22:05:52  <Samu> if ( && (ind_behav & INDUSTRYBEH_BUILT_ONWATER) && (IsTileType(cur_tile, MP_INDUSTRY) || _current_company >= MAX_COMPANIES)) return ret;
22:06:04  <Samu> i'm trying to understand why did I write this line
22:06:26  <Samu> especially the part (IsTileType(cur_tile, MP_INDUSTRY)+
22:09:22  <glx> oilrig on canal maybe
22:15:30  *** Argensis_ has joined #openttd
22:16:58  <Samu> i can't follow this huge code
22:17:20  <Samu> DoCreateNewIndustry
22:17:45  <Samu> oops, not this one
22:18:30  <Samu> CheckIfIndustryTilesAreFree
22:18:32  <Samu> this one
22:19:16  <Samu> do...while  cycle
22:20:04  *** Biolunar has quit IRC
22:20:59  <Samu>
22:22:09  <Samu> what I wanna know is what has been done before line 1424
22:22:16  *** Argensis has quit IRC
22:22:36  <Samu> line 1425 fails for what?
22:23:20  *** Progman has quit IRC
22:23:27  <Samu> it tries to clear tiles
22:23:38  <Samu> it fails on canals
22:23:53  <Samu> and i want it not to fail on certain cases
22:26:01  *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC
22:27:18  <Samu> 				if (ret.Failed()) { 					if (!(ind_behav & INDUSTRYBEH_BUILT_ONWATER)) return ret;
22:28:02  <Samu> this sets appart all land industry placement failures
22:28:40  <Samu> below this line i'm dealing with failures of industry tiles that are built on water
22:29:17  <Samu> what can make it fail and what cannot make it fail, that's the question
22:31:40  <Samu>
22:31:51  <Samu> i got this there, written last year
22:32:01  <Samu> and i wanna understand why
22:36:16  <Samu> IsTileType(cur_tile, MP_INDUSTRY) I'm utterly confused by this
22:37:28  <Samu> if it fails because there is an industry tile at the moment of placing the oil rig, then really fail
22:37:32  <Samu> what about the rest?
22:39:11  <Samu> what if the entire water is buoys or stuff like that?
22:41:07  *** Argensis_ is now known as Macha
22:43:31  <Samu> alright, i just built an oil rig on top of a buoy
22:43:34  <Samu> this is bugged
22:51:08  <Samu> I think I know what to do, at least I got the idea
22:55:15  *** srhnsn has quit IRC
22:59:10  *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd
23:06:09  *** Macha has quit IRC
23:12:07  *** JacobD88 has quit IRC
23:17:49  *** orudge has quit IRC
23:17:53  *** Nothing4You has quit IRC
23:20:43  *** Nothing4You has joined #openttd
23:21:50  *** orudge has joined #openttd
23:39:08  <Samu> will this do what I want?
23:39:09  <Samu>
23:39:44  <Samu> this is the original
23:40:28  <Samu> lines 1423 to 1428
23:41:42  <Samu> i guess not
23:45:20  <Samu> what about this one?
23:48:42  <Samu> gonna test
23:56:10  <Wolf01> 'night
23:56:12  *** Wolf01 has quit IRC

Powered by YARRSTE version: svn-trunk