Log for #openttd on 20th September 2016:
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00:02:17  <Eddi|zuHause> goodger: the original Samstag/Sonnabend split might have come from the areas influenced by roman culture (south and west) vs. the areas influenced by christian missionaries (north and east)
00:02:55  <goodger> makes sense
00:03:01  <Eddi|zuHause> but i have no data to support this claim
00:06:33  <goodger> I accidentally almost drove in to germany the other week
00:06:46  <goodger> (irrelevant but mildly interesting factoid)
00:07:59  <Eddi|zuHause> i can only imagine what a disaster that would have been, crossing an open border...
00:08:39  <goodger> yes, I would have had to turn around and been late for my chair appointment :O
00:10:57  <Eddi|zuHause> well, you could have been a goodger(man)
00:11:12  <goodger> a goodger man?
00:11:16  <goodger> I already am one of those
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00:46:15  <Wolf01> 'night
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08:32:04  <Wolf01> Moin
08:34:35  <Wolf01> This remembers me about the OTTD's mega-hyper-16-mainlines junctions
08:37:05  <V453000> yep
08:37:12  <V453000> it's fairly similar yet very different :P
08:37:35  <Wolf01> I think that when in a game where you can make splits and joins of anything, the final goal is always to make a well balanced full throughput "junction", people would make that even in "pipe dream" if there isn't the time limit XD
08:37:57  <Alkel_U3> 32-belt balancer o_o
08:39:14  <Wolf01> I once tried to make a bidirectional layout for ores... then I just moved the first splitter near the furnaces XD
08:42:02  <Alkel_U3> I've only made 8-lane balancer once when I outsourced furnaces way outside my main factory and made it really big, with 8-car trains. It behaved ok-ish, mostly.
08:43:29  <Alkel_U3> now that got me wondering, could this perhaps be enhanced with circuit network?
08:43:57  <Wolf01> You can disable belts now
08:44:20  <V453000> I always just use more throughput rather than perfect balancing
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08:45:16  <Wolf01> I don't even try, I just make it work :P
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10:40:33  <argoneus> good morning train friends
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11:35:04  <goodger> o/
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11:51:53  <Samu> found another object bug t.t
11:52:59  <Samu> rocky land is not being flooded
11:53:35  <Samu> with the exception of the half-land, half-water tile
12:02:20  <Samu> where in the code are objects flooded?
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12:31:09  <kamcio96> Hello, can you explain me how instal dedicated server on linux? I have debian 8 in soyoustart
12:31:18  <kamcio96> "Error: Failed to find a graphics set. Please acquire a graphics set for OpenTTD."
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13:20:51  <Eddi|zuHause> well, install a graphics set...
13:43:15  <peter1138> oh, yello have a new album
13:43:21  <peter1138> didn't realise they were still going
13:43:53  <andythenorth> the race
13:43:58  <peter1138> quite
13:44:11  <Wolf01> o/
13:45:49  <peter1138>
13:45:51  <peter1138> oh yeah
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13:46:11  <andythenorth> any good? o_O
13:46:19  <peter1138> i don't have an apple phone
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13:46:29  <peter1138> oh there's an android one
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13:46:32  <peter1138> hmm, £2.84 :(
13:46:55  <andythenorth> £2.84 worth of entertainment? o_O
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14:09:57  <Samu> how do I flood an object without destroying the object
14:10:13  <Samu> change the landy part of the object into water
14:11:34  <Samu> does the object specs have a special flag for this?
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14:19:23  <planetmaker> Samu: The object specs have a flag which allows objects being placed on water
14:20:07  <planetmaker> but I'm not sure how it behaves when the object is placed on land which is being flooded. You can checkout with opengfx+landscape and the wind powerplants
14:21:26  <supermop> i should make another attempt at ogfx+ stations
14:22:52  <Samu> planetmaker: that's what i tried, it doesn't flood
14:23:01  <Samu>
14:23:37  <andythenorth>
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14:38:23  <Eddi|zuHause> '"Is that called arrayReverse?" "s/camel/_/" "Cool thanks."' i see nothing wrong with that conversation...
14:40:12  <andythenorth> me neither
14:40:14  <andythenorth> we are broken
14:41:33  <Eddi|zuHause> well, sure. but even if not, every profession group has their own jargon... try to listen to two construction workers talking, and you find equally obscure pieces of conversation
14:42:14  <Eddi|zuHause> or two investment bankers
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16:00:21  <Alberth> o/
16:08:32  <Wolf01> o/
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16:16:13  <Samu> i found yet another bug
16:17:47  <Samu> placing a wind turbine
16:17:53  <Samu> on a steep slope
16:18:02  <Samu> steep coastal slope tile
16:18:09  <Samu> gets graphical glitches
16:18:39  <Samu> also happens to rocky land
16:20:34  <Samu>
16:24:43  <Samu> there's more slope combinations resulting in glitchy graphics
16:24:46  <Samu> :(
16:26:44  <Samu> don't know how you call this slope combo
16:27:09  <Samu> "2 corners raised at opposite directions"-slope
16:29:11  <Samu> [img][/img]
16:30:15  <Alberth> wow :)
16:32:57  <Samu> i'm gonna give up trying to fix stuff for object tile types
16:33:25  <Samu> when i think i fixed something, i uncover something else
16:34:09  <Samu> besides, i don't really play with newgrfs
16:34:16  <Samu> never liked the feature
16:39:29  <Samu> i really think trees should have water class
16:40:17  <Samu> or just forbid placing trees on every coastal tile
16:40:33  <Samu> else it makes this much difficult to fix
16:41:36  <Samu> there are some "supposedly" coastal tiles that don't turn into coastal tiles, even without trees on them
16:42:17  <Samu> too many exceptions to the rule which makes drawing tiles much more difficult
16:48:49  <Samu> where is that part of the code that turns slopes configurations into coastal tiles? you forgot 2 slope combinations
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16:49:29  <Samu> the "2 corners raised at opposite corners"-slope was forgotten, doesnt get turned into a coast
16:50:01  <Samu> i wonder if it was by intention
16:52:49  <Alberth> not enough water to make a coast :)
16:57:31  <Alberth> newgrf spec should know the answer
17:03:18  <Samu> 			Slope slope_here = GetFoundationSlope(tile) & ~SLOPE_HALFTILE_MASK & ~SLOPE_STEEP;
17:03:35  <Samu> i don't know what those ~ thing do
17:04:19  <Alberth> swap all bits
17:04:58  <Alberth> ie 1->0 and 0->1
17:05:29  <Samu> ah, ty
17:05:36  <Samu> think i found it static const uint8 _flood_from_dirs[]
17:05:49  <Samu>  * Describes from which directions a specific slope can be flooded (if the tile is floodable at all).
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17:06:22  <Samu> 	0,                                                             // SLOPE_EW
17:06:30  <Samu> you don't want it to be flooded
17:06:36  <Samu> i wonder why
17:07:15  <Samu> it's not really a flood, it's a dryup
17:08:30  <Alberth> all sides are raised
17:08:47  <Alberth> just 2 cornerpoints are not
17:13:45  <Samu> i triggered a crash, :)
17:13:48  <Samu> ok let's see
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17:14:15  <Samu> 	assert((tileh != SLOPE_EW) && (tileh != SLOPE_NS)); // No suitable sprites for current flooding behaviour
17:14:22  <Samu> :(
17:14:28  <andythenorth> assert cat
17:15:27  <Samu> DrawShoreTile
17:15:32  <Samu> this function crashed
17:15:39  <Samu> or asserted or whatever
17:15:59  <Samu> let's remove the assert, and see what happens
17:18:20  <Samu> i see glitchy graphics
17:19:10  <Alberth> cat assertions?
17:20:01  <andythenorth> think so
17:20:03  <Alberth> the comment gives the answer to your question :)
17:20:16  <Samu> Slope_EW is not glitchy
17:20:18  <Alberth> ^ Samu
17:20:21  <Samu> SLOPE_NS is
17:20:27  <Samu> allow one then
17:21:52  <Alberth> I checked the dutch Firs translation, was already up-to-date :)
17:22:35  <Samu> i bet it's because of this that objects get glitchy too
17:22:56  <Samu> but maybe im wrong
17:23:20  <Samu> let me place a wind turbine on the glitchy
17:23:25  <Samu> NS slope
17:26:54  <Samu> bah, nope
17:27:15  <Samu> made no difference
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17:31:34  <andythenorth> is quak
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17:33:24  <Alberth> quak cat
17:34:56  <Wolf01> ^
17:38:45  <frosch123> moi
17:41:09  <andythenorth> quak tram
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17:51:36  <Samu> who's a professional drawer?
17:52:27  <Samu> in fact, i don't think it needs anyone to draw anything
17:53:36  <Wolf01> does this look professional enough=
17:53:39  <Wolf01> ?
17:54:53  <Samu> uh... :)
17:55:15  <Samu> how do i re-use sprites
17:55:31  <Samu> they already exist
17:55:39  <Samu> just not on the right place
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18:40:49  <Samu> hey Alberth , when using the sprite aligner
18:41:03  <Samu> I notice the sprite already exists
18:41:07  <Samu> it's only misaligned
18:41:45  <Alberth> ok
18:41:48  <Samu> the Y offset needs to be adjusted
18:41:55  <Samu> -31
18:41:57  <Samu> or -32
18:42:43  <Samu> -32 or -33, zoom seems to make no difference
18:43:26  <Samu> \ogfxe_extra
18:43:35  <Samu> sprite 5,936
18:44:42  <Alberth> note how much you have to shift it, and report it to the project owning the sprite
18:45:10  <Alberth> 5,936 is a number given by openttd, project uses a different number
18:46:45  <Samu> isn't the project OpenTTD?
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18:54:02  <frosch123> Wolf01: i have something very similar at work
18:54:14  <frosch123> but it is always empty since everything turned digital
18:54:47  <frosch123> like, there are huge build-in cupboards in all offices, mostly empty :p
18:54:55  <Wolf01> I had it too, here we aren't able to go fully digital
18:56:28  <frosch123> last time i moved office, we emptied the cupboards
18:56:58  <frosch123> it had some chronological ordering, but stopped at 2004 or so
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19:03:36  <Alberth> Samu: only if you are talking about sprites in the original baseset, and perhaps a few new sprites that were added later
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19:08:14  <Samu> i'm not using any newgrf, so i suppose it's the original baseset
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19:16:04  <Samu>
19:16:25  <Samu> it's a set of 2 images
19:16:43  <Samu> the one at the top is with the Y offset
19:23:46  <Alberth> I would doubt nobody would have seen that in the past 10 years or so
19:29:19  <Alberth> I don't have your wavey coast lines in the original baseset, sure you don't have newgrfs?
19:31:29  <Alberth>
19:31:53  <Alberth> or opengfx, for that matter?
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19:59:05  <Samu> i give up
20:00:27  <Samu> base graphic set: OpenGFX
20:06:06  <Samu> just tested original_windows
20:06:22  <Samu> they exist, they're even correctly aligned
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20:08:39  <Samu> they look good in original
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20:12:32  <Samu> OpenGFX doesn't mimic the origial_windows though
20:16:13  <Samu>
20:16:18  <Samu> looks good!
20:20:03  <Samu> i can't go to this link
20:21:41  <Samu> these links are dead in the readme of opengfx
20:22:22  <Samu>
20:22:37  <Samu> nevermind, not this link
20:23:14  <Samu> OpenGFX 0.5.2 readme has invalid links to the forum
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20:27:12  <Samu> oh wow, the topic got 171 pages
20:36:10  <Samu> I'm utterly confused
20:36:25  <Samu> they exist in original_windows, they don't exist in OpenGFX?
20:36:47  <Samu> and is that why you disable it in OpenTTD code?
20:38:36  <Samu>
20:39:50  <Samu> 12, 13, 25, 26, 38, 39, 51, 52
20:40:40  <Samu> they exist!
20:41:16  <Samu> I don't understand why they're disabled in-game
20:42:27  <Samu> anyone here?
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21:21:47  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:35:36  <FLHerne_> Samu: Oh, those tiles
21:36:07  <FLHerne_> They're disabled because they don't fit the actual gameplay effects, i.e. water doesn't flow through that sort of gap
21:36:36  <FLHerne_> It would be nice if it did, but then people's maps would get flooded
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21:40:36  <Samu> oh, but they could still be coastal tiles
21:41:31  <FLHerne> There's a thread about it somewhere, but I can't find it either
21:43:20  <Samu> i think i understand the problem, draw them without the gap, but allow them to still be coastal tiles?
21:45:29  <FLHerne> Sorry, I don't understand
21:46:03  <Samu> code-wise they're not coastal tiles either
21:47:25  <Samu> darn, i forgot why I wanted them to be coastal tiles, but it was something related to a problem with placing newgrf objects and coast tiles
21:47:48  <FLHerne> They don't graphically look like coast tiles because they aren't functionally
21:48:50  <Samu> i ended up looking at the dry up code and something didn't make sense
21:49:16  <FLHerne> Water doesn't flow through them, which matches the straight equivalent
21:49:37  <Samu> ah, i think i remember, flooding object tiles that have water on the ground
21:49:57  <Samu> but without actually destroying the object, just drawing water around it
21:50:04  <FLHerne>
21:51:08  <Samu> yes, imagine an object on that NotCoast tile
21:51:21  <Samu> water doesn't go there
21:51:24  <FLHerne> If those narrow-coast graphics were actually used, they'd suggest the middle hole ought to be flooded
21:51:44  <FLHerne> Which I think would be an improvement, except it would break existing maps
21:52:17  <FLHerne> Also, behaviour of the directly-opposing straight coasts would have to match
21:53:06  <FLHerne> What are you actually trying to achieve here?
21:53:32  <Samu> there's a bug with displaying object tiles
21:53:52  <Samu> on certain "coastal" tiles
21:54:24  <Samu> NS, EW, and all steep tiles which are coast
21:54:52  <FLHerne> In trunk, or only with whatever patch you've been writing?
21:55:01  <Samu> in 1.6.1
21:55:09  <FLHerne> What's the bug?
21:55:23  <Samu> sec, let me find the topic, i got some pictures there
21:56:24  <Samu>
21:58:33  <Samu> wind turbine is one of those objects that is allowed to be placed on water and on ground, it doesn't create a flat formation on the tile
22:00:24  <FLHerne> Both of those objects are from OpenGFX+ Landscape
22:00:44  <FLHerne> The turbine has all sorts of weird NML to pick a ground tile, which is apparently buggy
22:01:05  <FLHerne> Rocks can be built on water, but don't seem to detect when their tile is flooded
22:01:14  <FLHerne> Actually, that might be an OTTD limitation
22:02:00  <FLHerne> Not sure you _can_ detect 'this tile ought to be flooded now'
22:02:20  <FLHerne> So, just destroy it, wait until the tile's flooded, rebuild the rocks prettily
22:04:00  <FLHerne> I don't see how the coast-ness, or graphical appearance, of the tiles you're mentioning is at all relevant
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22:05:03  <Samu> it's the newgrf that's buggy?
22:05:34  <FLHerne> Yes
22:05:55  <FLHerne> Well, for the rocks it could be that the NewGRF interface isn't flexible enough
22:06:23  <FLHerne> I can't think how to make those work 'right', but ask someone who knows
22:06:48  <Samu> i was checking the DoFloodTile and DoDryUp
22:07:02  <Samu> MP_OBJECT is totally ignored
22:07:24  <FLHerne> Oh, that's odd
22:07:58  <FLHerne> Line 96 suggests you shouldn't be able to build it on steep slopes at all
22:08:57  <FLHerne> planetmaker coded that object, ask him
22:09:07  <Samu> what is the tiletype that is checked?
22:09:15  <Samu> that tile is water, and a coast
22:09:35  <Samu> steep coast tile
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22:31:20  <Samu> alright, thx for helping me on that
22:31:56  <Samu> i guess i better not touch on object part of the code that much, from openttd side, at least
22:35:13  <Samu> there's no more room for station types
22:35:43  <Samu> the other day i was thinking locks as waypoints
22:36:11  <Samu> but there's no more bits to store another station type
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