Log for #openttd on 27th September 2016:
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00:14:42  *** Vikhenzo has joined #openttd
00:18:48  <Vikhenzo> If I'm hosting a server in the same computer as I play
00:19:01  <Vikhenzo> can I make it so they don't share client names?
00:19:28  <Vikhenzo> cause I change it in openttd.cfg to "Server" and then I change it ingame and it works fine
00:19:31  <Vikhenzo> but it's a pain
00:20:24  <glx> use a different cfg for client and server
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00:23:48  <glx> you can start one openttd using "-c <file>" in command line
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00:31:19  <Vikhenzo> great thanks!
00:48:09  <Fujk> is there a fast way to find industry routes, like draw a line between coal and steel mill on the map? before you build anything
00:50:09  <Eddi|zuHause> you can enable and disable industries on the minimap
00:51:03  <Eddi|zuHause> by clicking on them in the list
00:51:20  <Eddi|zuHause> there might even be a blinking mode
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01:02:17  <Fujk> will trucks driving a really long way lose profit eventually?
01:05:30  <Eddi|zuHause> you can find profit calculation stuff in the wiki
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02:45:57  <Fujk> can you copy orders from one vehicle to another?
02:47:32  <Fujk> ah you just had to click a vehicle, nice
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03:26:22  <supermop_> that was depressing
03:28:09  <goodger> supermop_: terminator prototype rejected for insufficient empathy meets baby's first hitler parody?
03:28:54  <sim-al2> I don't know about parody
03:29:11  <supermop_> i dont have any complaints about clinton (not current complaints)
03:29:43  <supermop_> never strongly supported her before but she is a consummate professional - i dont have a problem with that
03:30:09  <supermop_> but i'd managed to largely avoid having to listen to trump speak for the past 2 years
03:30:17  <sim-al2> Maybe more like eyeballing a certain Italian
03:30:29  <supermop_> just reading about the latestwas bad enough
03:30:49  <sim-al2> I wish I could have avoided listening him for the last two years
03:30:57  <sim-al2> It would help the sanity greatly
03:31:11  <supermop_> but listening to him string together nonsensical strings of words was worse than i imagined
03:31:19  <supermop_> sim-al2: i dont own a tv
03:31:25  <supermop_> watched debate at a bar
03:31:38  <sim-al2> I listen to podcasts and radio
03:31:48  <sim-al2> Still ended up hearing far too much
03:31:53  <sim-al2> At first it was kinda funny
03:31:55  <sim-al2> kinda
03:32:01  <sim-al2> But then it wasn't
03:32:14  <goodger> I more or less ignored it and I bet I know just as much about the candidates' suitability to rule the free world as you guys :P
03:32:28  <sim-al2> I don't really watch much TV anymore
03:32:31  <supermop_> also he seemed to both admit that he did refuse to rent apartments to black people, and that he had no idea what nuclear first use means
03:32:43  <sim-al2> Among other things
03:32:58  <goodger> mutually assured destruction is gonna be huge
03:33:01  <goodger> nighto
03:33:26  <sim-al2> I waiting for the morning to see what the Fox News spin will be
03:33:32  <sim-al2> Should be hilarious
03:33:34  <supermop_> i mean i feel like at least go into a debate without admitting to committing several federal crimes and bragging about getting away with it...
03:33:41  <supermop_> breitbart will be worse
03:33:54  <sim-al2> I literally don't care what Breitbart thinks
03:34:18  <supermop_> but ill have to wait to see what someone sensible reports on what breibart spins
03:34:24  <sim-al2> Supposedly 1/3 of their online poll thinks Trump lost though
03:34:37  <sim-al2> Which is actually kinda mindblowing coming from that site
03:35:03  <supermop_> also - if you are going to be coked up for a tv appearance, make sure you can handle it
03:35:13  <supermop_> so you arent sniffing the whole time
03:35:32  <sim-al2> The spin they put could be hilarious, but I imagine it will just be a giant whine-fest
03:36:12  <supermop_> moderator could have done with some more detailed questions
03:36:46  <sim-al2> Yeah, he should have been firmer too
03:37:13  <supermop_> but not like we would have gotten any better of answers
03:37:26  <sim-al2> True
03:38:14  <supermop_> also his response to the question of police shootings and protests basically refused to acknowledge the question
03:38:46  <sim-al2>
03:39:01  <sim-al2> Pretty relevant to how he responded
03:39:19  <supermop_> look i get that this guy isnt going to be at black lives matter protests, but if someone asks you about them, at least mention that they exist
03:39:52  <supermop_> instead of calling for the type of unconstitutional police action that people are protesting
03:40:17  <sim-al2> And failing to ackowledge that it was unconstiutional!
03:40:22  <sim-al2> Like, what
03:40:54  <sim-al2> And he threw in a "the judge was against police" too
03:41:42  <supermop_> even nypd has admitted, now that its been gone for years, that things are going better now without it
03:42:28  <supermop_> actually at lunch today an older black nypd detective was sitting next to me, talking to a younger guy
03:42:51  <supermop_> about how he now works on a community outreach team
03:43:37  <supermop_> and about the difficulties of fighting a lot of the FOP mentality from within the NYPD, but how that now they are starting to make progress
03:44:35  <supermop_> even though some of the unions are against it, the police leadership in ny is looking at how to avoid many of the issues that PDs are having in other cities
03:44:59  <sim-al2> Yeah, nuance in "law and order" politics is kinda rare, but this year is really quite astonishing
03:45:11  <supermop_> i doubt you'd find many, or any senior NYPD people today who would fight to bring stop and frisk back
03:45:32  <sim-al2> I think it shows how disconnected Trump is from where he lives
03:46:15  <supermop_> no one here acccepts that guy as a new yorker
03:46:45  <sim-al2> Oh I understand that
03:47:06  <sim-al2> It's just hilarious that he has literally no clue
03:47:49  <Fujk> I have a train with 2 cargo types, metal and iron ore, how can I use one station to transfer the metal and load the ore, not transfer the metal and load the metal I just unloaded?
03:48:10  <supermop_> in every city with a big trump building or hotel, its a joke - everyone think it is the tackiest building in town
03:48:28  <supermop_> Fujk: its difficult
03:48:48  <supermop_> you need cargodist for all cargoes
03:49:08  <sim-al2> Wouldn't the metal stay if only ore is accepted at the station?
03:49:22  <supermop_> and even then it usually ill not work unless you have already set up a link,
03:49:36  <supermop_> then use refit to any available cargo order
03:50:44  <supermop_> but first you will need some way to establish the cargo paths, either a small train or trucks that carry only metal and only ore, and make the same journey that you want your train to make
03:51:28  <supermop_> sim-al2: sounds like nothing is accepted at station - metal is transfered
03:52:16  <supermop_> Fujk: the first thing you need is a vehicle to carry the transfered metal away to it's destination, so cargodist can 'see' that link
03:52:19  <sim-al2> Oh, I see
03:52:59  <supermop_> then transfered metal will naturally get off the train and wait to get taken away
03:52:59  <sim-al2> So if I understand, the train is loaded with both ore and metal already?
03:53:38  <sim-al2> But only the ore needs to be transferred
03:53:56  <Fujk> also I think I found a bug. when I build a vehicle station that is not inline with the road, but on the side. I get "cant go there" when I try to do an order for a vehicle
03:54:11  <supermop_> then you need to establish a link for the ore, so train will refit to and load the ore (assuming the same wagons carry both ore and metal)
03:54:56  <supermop_> Fujk: road vehicles that bend - have a trailer, cannot use the dead-end stops
03:55:32  <supermop_> only rigid vehicles, like a regular bus, or short rigid truck
03:55:44  <Fujk> oh
03:56:50  <supermop_> the bendy vehicles cannot turn around in such a small space - think of driving a car with a trailor, it is too difficult to reverse into a small space
03:59:56  <sim-al2> Yeah, those dead-end stops involve some incredible flip action
04:00:29  <sim-al2> Like a bus doing a 180 turn without moving forward
04:05:50  <supermop_> Fujk: i made a save game with the type of transfer i talked about
04:05:58  <supermop_> are you on tt-forums?
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04:20:15  <supermop_> Fujk:
04:20:18  <supermop_> good night
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09:25:12  <Wolf01> Moin
09:43:14  <Wolf01> If I want to get Random() 0 to 3, what should I do? GB(Random(), 0, 3)?
09:43:37  <Wolf01> *0, 2
09:44:23  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, 0,2
09:49:09  <Wolf01> if (_settings_game.game_creation.landscape == LT_TROPIC && (r = Random(), tile = RandomTileSeed(r), GetTropicZone(tile) == TROPICZONE_RAINFOREST) && CanPlantTreesOnTile(tile, false) && (tree = GetRandomTreeType(tile, GB(r, 24, 8))) != TREE_INVALID) {
09:49:16  <Wolf01> This condition makes me sick
10:01:24  <Wolf01> Nice... the tree placing algorithm only places more or less trees, it does not "improve" anything
10:02:16  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think i ever cared about that, because the map will be swamped with trees anyway after a while
10:02:46  <Wolf01> Yes, but at least I'm trying to give it a good looking
10:03:15  <Wolf01> I could hijack the tree placing algorithm setting
10:03:41  <Wolf01> If you set "improved" it really improves the placement, not just the number
10:04:28  <Wolf01> So I could avoid the "0" value to disable the CircularTileSearch
10:06:33  <Wolf01> * Place a number of trees based on the tile height.
10:06:33  <Wolf01> *  This gives a cool effect of multiple trees close together.
10:06:33  <Wolf01> *  It is almost real life ;)
10:06:35  <Wolf01> Lol
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10:22:01  <Wolf01> PlaceTree(cur_tile, GetNearestTreeType(cur_tile, r), r); this looks bad :(
10:22:38  <Wolf01> I should make a wrapper "PlaceRandomTree(tile, r)"
10:26:36  <Eddi|zuHause> why do both functions need r?
10:27:40  <Wolf01> Because the GetNearestTreeType returns a random type if no tree was found nearby
10:27:58  <Wolf01> Shoult it return "invalid tree" instead?
10:29:09  <Eddi|zuHause> but why does PlaceTree need r then?
10:29:25  <Eddi|zuHause> if GetNearest already looped around?
10:29:36  <Wolf01> Randomizes the terrain and tree counter
10:30:11  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't understand
10:30:21  <Wolf01> Thats vanilla
10:30:31  <Wolf01> PlaceTree does 3 things
10:31:01  <Wolf01> Random tree, random terrain (if not shore or snow) and random tree counter on the tile
10:33:21  <Wolf01> I wanted to remove the "random tree" and pass it from outside, as I don't need everytime a random tree
10:33:47  <Wolf01> As I always want the nearest tree
10:34:07  <Wolf01> *always*, only with improved placement
10:34:43  <Eddi|zuHause> ok, then i suggest to skip the random tree in GetNearest and just return invalid, then in PlaceTree randomize the tree type if parameter is invalid
10:34:59  <Wolf01> Ok
10:38:40  <Wolf01> I think I should add a TREE_RANDOM in the enum
10:39:12  <Wolf01> PlaceTree(tile, TREE_INVALID, r); <- if I want a real random tree this is comfusing
10:39:45  <Eddi|zuHause> change the parmaeter order, so the tree type is optional
10:40:18  <Eddi|zuHause> PlaceTree(Tile tile, uint r, Type type = TYPE_INVALID)
10:40:44  <Eddi|zuHause> then you can run PlaceTree(tile, r)
10:41:32  <Eddi|zuHause> or PlaceTree(tile, r, GetNearest(tile))
10:41:39  <Wolf01> Yep
10:44:42  <Wolf01> Lets check what I have broken
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10:46:14  <Samu> hi
10:46:21  <Wolf01> hi
10:52:27  <Wolf01> Strange... I planted a tree on a tile, but GetTreeGround asserts there's not a tree
10:52:46  <Samu> :)
10:55:06  <Wolf01> Ops, my fault
10:55:32  <Wolf01> It's a tile above no trees height
11:09:04  <Wolf01> search radius of 16, tree height limit of 24(+/-4) and evergreen line of 16 (+/-4)
11:10:32  <Wolf01> With high search radius the evergreen trees could "walk" even below their line, not much I can do there without double checking and picking another random tree
11:10:56  <Wolf01> And deciduous trees can "walk" up too
11:11:53  <Wolf01> But the height for both is preferred on planting with clean map, so you have more and bigger evergreen forests on high terrain
11:13:24  <Wolf01> If you make a flat, sea level map, you shouldn't have any evergreen tree, provided you change all the trees from temperate to be deciduous ;)
11:17:28  <peter1138> hmm, i should never restart that ntp server. it's managed to get a stratum 1 connection, heh.
11:18:20  <^Spike^> lol
11:21:49  <Wolf01> Mmh, I think I should really check for which tree I can plant on a tile after the CircularTileSearch... Baobabs in the middle of a desert are not cool
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11:30:37  <Wolf01> Eddi|zuHause, is there a "InRange(x, lower, upper)" function somewhere?
11:34:38  <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea
11:34:45  <Eddi|zuHause> in math_func.h(pp)?
11:35:37  <Eddi|zuHause> there is Clamp
11:35:39  <Wolf01> IsInsideBS could be used
11:35:47  <Wolf01> Clamp limits a value
11:36:23  <Wolf01> Even IsInsideMM
11:37:05  <Wolf01> I'll go for IsInsideBS, as I have start and size
11:37:15  <Wolf01> *base and size
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11:38:10  <Wolf01> return IsInsideBS(tree, TREE_TEMPERATE, TREE_COUNT_TEMPERATE); should do it
11:39:41  <Wolf01> Lets see how many cycles I'll waste with no trees planted
11:40:18  <Wolf01> At least I fixed desert now
11:44:18  <Wolf01> And forests don't "walk" anymore outside their height
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11:49:39  <Wolf01> "The TreeType to check the tile for suitability" is this english?
12:00:35  <Samu> i found a bug with dock placement
12:00:45  <Samu> on my version, that is
12:01:04  <Samu> on the edge of the map, the 3rd tile must not be void tile
12:01:16  <Samu> ships could never dock
12:01:47  <Wolf01> Just add a "IsValidTile()" check
12:14:03  <Samu> if (!IsValidTile(tile_cur)) return_cmd_error(STR_ERROR_TOO_CLOSE_TO_EDGE_OF_MAP_SUB);
12:17:53  <Samu> now moving on to ship depot terraform decision, yet again
12:18:01  <Samu> the code i have there blows
12:18:24  <Samu> for readability purposes, it's horribad
12:18:42  <Samu> i need a strategy :(
12:20:27  <Samu> and i need to be consistent with the rules
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12:37:02  <Wolf01> /* 2x as expensive to add more trees to an existing tile */ <- wait, what?
12:39:35  <Wolf01> I can't understand why I get the desert filled with cactus... maybe it's the TREE_INVALID => TREE_CACTUS conversion
12:41:39  <Samu> cactus spawn on newgame, but not on scenario editor
12:41:50  <Samu> do they need a town?
12:42:45  <Wolf01> They spawn here, and in the right number...
12:43:06  <Wolf01> But on new game I get the desert filled with cactus
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12:45:13  <Wolf01> Mmmh, no, it works now
12:45:18  <Wolf01> Maybe I missed a check
12:46:24  <Samu> when the last cactus die, no more cactus spawn on the map
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12:49:56  <Wolf01> Industry placement in sub arctic should be reworked
12:50:11  <Wolf01> Oil wells in the top of a mountain
12:50:18  <Wolf01> Even factories
12:51:49  <Samu> do you have a way to count trees?
12:52:20  <Samu> total number of trees of type A, B or C, in the world
12:52:32  <Wolf01> No
12:52:43  <Wolf01> Only in tropic
12:53:04  <Samu> i'd like to see the trend
12:53:19  <Samu> what's planted more, how it changes past some time, etc
12:53:44  <Samu> to find out "issues"
12:55:08  <Samu> can't find any more cactus
12:55:29  <Samu> rip last cactus, they lasted for about ~53 years
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13:14:51  <Wolf01> You know you can plant them?
13:32:23  <Wolf01> I had to disable the GetNearestTreeType for cactus
13:32:29  <Wolf01> Or better.. for desert
13:34:59  <Wolf01> I think that's because it raises a lot the possibility to get a cactus instead of a tree
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13:56:46  <supermop> cactus?
14:00:35  <supermop> V453000: what style of buildings are you considering for brix?
14:06:49  <Wolf01> Yes, cactus
14:08:43  <supermop> agave?
14:08:56  <supermop> tequila?
14:08:57  <Wolf01> I don't know, there's only one cactus type in OTTD
14:09:22  <supermop> patch: NewCacti
14:09:40  <Wolf01> CactiTypes
14:09:55  <Wolf01> Btw, TreeTypes would be cool
14:10:07  <Wolf01> But I have enough work with NotRoadTypes
14:12:04  <Samu> i give up
14:12:12  <Samu> can't come up with a strategy
14:12:19  <Samu> a coding style
14:13:14  <Samu> what I have works
14:13:27  <Samu> it just sucks to read it
14:16:29  <supermop> Wolf01: CacTypes
14:16:37  <supermop> CacTipes?
14:16:55  <Samu> SCARY!!!
14:18:04  <Samu> lines 65-154 is the scary part :O
14:18:40  <Samu> @calc 173-154-65
14:18:40  <DorpsGek> Samu: -46
14:18:48  <Samu> erm, math expert
14:19:06  <Samu> @calc 173-(154-65)
14:19:06  <DorpsGek> Samu: 84
14:19:19  <Samu> @calc 154-65
14:19:19  <DorpsGek> Samu: 89
14:19:43  <Samu> there's more lines for the terraform decision than the rest of the ship depot code
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14:21:26  <Samu> okay, gonna work on something else
14:21:34  <supermop> Wolf01: what are your goals with this batch of tree work?
14:21:48  <Wolf01> Better looking maps
14:22:51  <supermop> sounds good
14:30:39  <Samu> ah, docking point
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14:39:48  <Fujk> why are the shores so pointy?
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14:44:57  <supermop> what do you mean Fujk
14:45:42  <supermop> also, did you look at the game i posted?
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14:52:41  <Wolf01> _settings_newgame.game_creation.tree_placer_radius = Clamp(_settings_newgame.game_creation.tree_placer_radius + widget - WID_GL_TREE_RADIUS_TEXT, 1, MAX_MAX_HEIGHTLEVEL);
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14:52:50  <Wolf01> I need to use steps of 4
14:52:58  <Wolf01> How could I change this?
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14:54:34  <supermop> Fujk: i realized i made an error in my train orders. Corrected save game is here:
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15:01:48  <Samu> what would be the best .h file to get a  function of this kind: EnsureNoDockingTile
15:02:07  <Samu> there's a DockOffset at station_map.h
15:02:33  <Samu> i currently got it at station_cmd.cpp
15:02:44  <Samu> i need to use it on water_cmd.cpp
15:02:47  <Samu> and i can't
15:02:48  <Samu> what can i do
15:03:17  <Fujk> supermop: no what is it?
15:03:35  <Samu> it's a CommandCost
15:03:42  <Samu> static CommandCost EnsureNoDockingTile(TileIndex tile, DiagDirection diagdir = INVALID_DIAGDIR)
15:03:55  <Wolf01> Samu, include station_map.h in water_cmd.cpp
15:04:03  <Samu> oki, thx
15:04:21  <supermop> Fujk: at the link i posted - the save game shows a train that transfers metal, then loads scrap metal and coal (instead of ore)
15:05:08  <Fujk> two cargo types on same train?
15:06:58  <supermop> yes
15:07:03  <Samu> Severity	Code	Description	Project	File	Line	Suppression State Error (active)		identifier "EnsureNoDockingTile" is undefined	openttd	d:\OpenTTD\trunk\src\water_cmd.cpp	734
15:07:10  <Samu> i suck
15:07:18  <supermop> coal and scrap metal go one way, then metal comes back the other way
15:09:44  <supermop> the metal gets transfered and taken away while the coal and scrap get loaded
15:10:16  <Fujk> oh you refit at the station every time
15:10:27  <supermop> in the orders
15:10:28  <Fujk> Interesting
15:12:13  <Samu> i can't put EnsureNoDockingTile on station_map.h, it requires station code stuff :(
15:12:26  <Samu> must be on station_cmd.cpp
15:12:42  <Samu> im confused
15:14:18  <Wolf01> You can define the function in .h and implement it in .cpp
15:15:04  <Samu> water.h?
15:15:14  <Samu> i see water.h is common for both
15:15:35  <Wolf01> If is a station, then belongs to station_map.h
15:15:51  <Wolf01> Doesn't matter if water, grass, desert...
15:16:07  <Eddi|zuHause> <Wolf01> I need to use steps of 4 <-- you could add a callback function to the setting that makes sure it's always a multiple of 4
15:16:27  <Samu> it's not really a station, but it needs to find a station nearby
15:16:32  <Samu> a dock nearby
15:16:36  <Eddi|zuHause> no idea if there's a stepping system built already to avoid that
15:16:42  <Samu> sec, i got the code
15:16:47  <Samu>
15:17:08  <Samu> i'm trying to use it on clearing a water tile, which is at water_cmd.cpp, but says identifier not found
15:17:59  <Samu> so when trying to clear a water tile, i want it to check if there's a dock nearby, but to check for dock stuff, i need station code
15:19:12  <Samu> i'm probably gonna use it on tunnelbridge code as well
15:20:06  <Samu> demolishing aqueduct will have to EnsureNoDockingTile
15:22:11  <supermop> ok now that i opened that save up to fix it, I can't help built build out a passenger network
15:29:58  <supermop> Fujk: the next step is to timetable those trains so that they run more effectively
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15:31:52  <Samu> declared but not defined
15:31:59  <Samu> i have no idea what these errors mean
15:32:56  <Samu> Severity	Code	Description	Project	File	Line	Suppression State Error	C2129	static function 'CommandCost EnsureNoDockingTile(TileIndex,DiagDirection)' declared but not defined	openttd	D:\OpenTTD\trunk\src\water_cmd.cpp	1641
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15:34:03  <Wolf01> o/
15:38:56  <Samu> Severity	Code	Description	Project	File	Line	Suppression State Error	LNK2019	unresolved external symbol "class CommandCost __cdecl EnsureNoDockingTile(unsigned int,enum DiagDirection)" (?EnsureNoDockingTile@@YA?AVCommandCost@@IW4DiagDirection@@@Z) referenced in function "class CommandCost __cdecl ClearTile_Water(unsigned int,enum DoCommandFlag)" (?ClearTile_Water@@YA?AVCommandCost@@IW4DoCommandFlag@@@Z)	openttd	D:\OpenTTD\trunk\projects - Có
15:39:08  <Samu> i hate chinese errors
15:39:55  <Samu> Error	LNK1120	1 unresolved externals	openttd	D:\OpenTTD\trunk\objs\x64\Debug\openttd.exe	1
15:41:15  <Samu> sorry, i can't do this
15:41:32  <Samu> i dunno where i got to put this code
15:42:25  <peter1138> It means you declared it but didn't define it.
15:44:02  <Alberth> lots of english characters for a chinese error :)
15:44:24  <Wolf01> Chinese errors XD
15:44:58  <Wolf01> Btw... anyone wants to help me on the "steps of 4" thing? I'm not that good on math
15:46:21  <Samu> i created the whole function and it says it's not defined?
15:46:27  <Alberth> think in steps of 1, and multiply the result by 4 ?
15:46:28  <Samu> i don't get these errors
15:46:55  <Wolf01> Could be, Alberth, but then I need to limit it to "8"
15:47:10  <Wolf01> 0 to 32 step 4
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15:49:25  <Samu>
15:49:28  <Wolf01> Seem to work
15:49:46  <Samu> i want to use it at water_cmd.cpp
15:49:58  <Wolf01> As it reads the calculated value
15:50:13  <Samu> it says identifier Severity	Code	Description	Project	File	Line	Suppression State Error	C3861	'EnsureNoDockingTile': identifier not found	openttd	D:\OpenTTD\trunk\src\water_cmd.cpp	733
15:50:46  <Samu> how to make water_cmd.cpp access that function, at station_cmd.cpp
15:51:12  <Wolf01> Samu, put "static CommandCost EnsureNoDockingTile(TileIndex tile, DiagDirection diagdir = INVALID_DIAGDIR);" in station_map.h?
15:51:27  <Samu> ok gonna try
15:52:03  <Wolf01> And include station_map.h in water_cmd.cpp
15:52:55  <Samu> hmm it's worse
15:53:12  <Samu> 588 errors
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15:53:24  <Wolf01> Maybe you missed something?
15:53:25  <Wolf01> o/
15:53:39  <Wolf01> Like the ";" at the end of the function declaration?
15:54:52  <supermop> andythenorth: i started up a tiny IH game to show how to transfer multiple cargoes using cargo dist, and now i cant stop going ahead and building out a passenger network
15:55:00  <andythenorth> :P
15:55:03  <supermop> chinooks and vulcans too cute
15:56:30  <Samu> there's # include "station_map.h" at water_cmd.cpp, there's a ; at the end of the line
15:56:38  <Samu> it does not like it
15:56:42  <Samu> 588 errors
15:57:09  <Wolf01> Don't put a ; at the end of "#include..."
15:57:15  <Samu> Severity	Code	Description	Project	File	Line	Suppression State Error (active)		cannot overload functions distinguished by return type alone	openttd	d:\OpenTTD\trunk\src\station_cmd.cpp	2459
15:57:28  <Samu> english plz
15:58:23  <Samu> this is line 2459 static CommandCost EnsureNoDockingTile(TileIndex tile, DiagDirection diagdir = INVALID_DIAGDIR)
15:59:05  <Wolf01> line 2459 static CommandCost EnsureNoDockingTile(TileIndex tile, DiagDirection diagdir = INVALID_DIAGDIR) <---- ;
15:59:29  <Wolf01> And #include "statioon_map.h" <---- no ;
16:00:21  <Samu> #include "station_map.h"
16:01:13  <Wolf01> Samu, you should learn at least the syntax, at least look at the surrounding lines how they are written
16:01:34  <Samu> doesn't work, still 588 errors
16:03:23  <Samu> expected a declaration now that I put the ";"
16:04:50  <Wolf01> Wait
16:04:58  <Samu> syntax errors everywhere and missing type everywhere, assumed int
16:05:36  <Wolf01> In "station_map.h"
16:05:36  <Wolf01> static CommandCost EnsureNoDockingTile(TileIndex tile, DiagDirection diagdir = INVALID_DIAGDIR);
16:05:37  <Wolf01> In  "station_cmd.cpp"
16:05:37  <Wolf01> static CommandCost EnsureNoDockingTile(TileIndex tile, DiagDirection diagdir = INVALID_DIAGDIR) { .. the code .. }
16:12:26  <Samu> sorry, it doesn't work
16:17:40  <Rubidium> static implies that it is in the same file. Remove them from the declaration and definition and try again
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16:23:00  <Wolf01> Ok, I'm happy now, I put the settings also in the new game/load heightmap window
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16:25:12  <andythenorth> Wolf01: are you making plantations? o_O
16:26:20  <Wolf01> I made trees grouped by type, max tree height, evergreen trees line
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16:26:49  <andythenorth> shame I always turn trees off :P
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16:27:05  * andythenorth turns trees visible in current game
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16:27:21  <Alberth> help, all tracks are gone!
16:29:12  <Eddi|zuHause> i like trees
16:29:22  <Eddi|zuHause> i try to avoid turning them invisible
16:29:46  <Eddi|zuHause> i hit X when necessary
16:29:52  <andythenorth> I find I can’t see enough with them visible
16:30:06  <Wolf01> You will enjoy the look with this patch
16:30:07  <andythenorth> this map has not too many though
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16:32:35  <Eddi|zuHause> i remember conversations like "why are all the local authorities hating me?" - "have you tried making trees visible?" - "HOLY FUCK THE WHOLE MAP IS COVERED"
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16:41:09  <supermop> andythenorth: the problem is that you can't see topography at all with trees on
16:41:25  <supermop> its like perfect camouflage
16:41:38  <andythenorth> yeah
16:42:03  <supermop> if trees varied strongly by height that would help on the macro scale but less usefull for route planning
16:42:32  <supermop> if trees were shaded by slope, to match the shading of hills, that would help more
16:42:45  <Eddi|zuHause> how would that work?
16:43:06  <Eddi|zuHause> both from a "realism" and from a game internals point of view
16:43:26  <Alberth> sun only shines on sunny hills
16:43:48  <Eddi|zuHause> there isn't actually a "sun" that makes the shading differences
16:43:53  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: tree would have to to be aware of either the slope of its tile, or the relative heights of its 8 neighbors
16:44:09  <Eddi|zuHause> the shading is built into the sprite itself
16:44:22  <supermop> and then darken tree by appropriate amount, like with the glass roof effect
16:44:52  <Eddi|zuHause> that's a palette recolouring
16:45:09  <Eddi|zuHause> which is not very flexible
16:45:29  <supermop> no reason a tree low on the north face of a mountain would be same brightness as a tree high on the south face, from a 'realism' view
16:45:44  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: its the simplest way i can conceive
16:46:12  <supermop> i just hate that i cant see any relief at all in a landscape with trees on
16:46:13  <Wolf01>
16:46:23  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: well, go ahead and implement applying a recolour map on each tree depending on the slope they stand on
16:46:34  <Eddi|zuHause> it shouldn't be impossibly hard
16:46:45  <supermop> map should look prettier with trees, not more like uniform noise
16:46:46  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe a bit performance draining
16:47:09  <Eddi|zuHause> but you probably need to come up with a few recolour maps
16:47:22  <Eddi|zuHause> to get the effect you desire
16:47:54  <Eddi|zuHause> but that's a few steps down the road
16:48:20  <andythenorth> remap once, cache it :P
16:48:36  <andythenorth> or just paint more trees
16:53:20  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: of the 9 possible slope directions, (incl. flat) you caould have the 4 'dark' slops all the same recolor, and the 4 light slopes plus flat could be normal
16:53:57  <supermop> would probably make enough difference with just two 'shades'
16:55:24  <supermop> i guess relative heights of neighbors is better than actual slop, as idk if map actually stores the slope of each tile - just the north corner height?
16:56:06  <supermop> also, then thin flat steps on the north of a hill don't return to full brightness
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17:22:18  <Wolf01> Oh, somebody downloaded my trees patch :D
17:23:45  <andythenorth> also cat patch
17:23:48  <andythenorth> moar cats
17:24:07  * andythenorth considers a base sprite replacement set
17:24:11  <andythenorth> trees -> cats
17:24:54  <andythenorth> local authority hates you -> plant cats
17:25:02  <andythenorth> StolenCats.grf
17:25:09  <Alberth> :D
17:25:14  <Wolf01> Why not just make a cat statue?
17:25:18  <andythenorth> dunno why cats are funny
17:25:20  <andythenorth> they just are
17:25:30  * andythenorth is not a cat owner or anything
17:25:51  <Wolf01> I was, I can confirm they are funny
17:30:17  <andythenorth>
17:32:15  <andythenorth> douglas adams quote is fun
17:32:20  <andythenorth> has anyone played NMS?
17:32:55  <Wolf01> Nope, but I play Minecraft
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17:37:08  <Alberth> "... Watching your 3 year old pilot your precious starship and cargo through  an onrushing storm of asteroids is, I can tell you, an experience. ..."    :)
17:39:12  <Wolf01> I reached the point ofview of the guy at least 20 years ago, I play games for fun and not for win
17:39:31  <andythenorth> I think he reached it 20 years ago too :)
17:39:35  <andythenorth> we are old now
17:39:36  <andythenorth> some of us
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17:40:07  <Samu> ppl are actually interested in 240 companies patch
17:40:17  <Samu> i can't imagine 240 AIs
17:40:43  <Samu> it slows down so much already with 15 AIs
17:40:46  <Alberth> anything with a bigger number is automatically better, no questions asked
17:41:02  <Wolf01> Also because I don't want to put effort in something not so useful (at least for me), and so I always get blamed on online play... that's why I usually play only coop and totally non-competitive games
17:41:54  <Samu> AI is limited to 4 GB mem each
17:41:58  <andythenorth> we should play a coop
17:42:01  <Samu> @calc 4x15
17:42:01  <DorpsGek> Samu: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
17:42:03  <andythenorth> not played for ages
17:42:09  <Samu> @calc 4*15
17:42:09  <DorpsGek> Samu: 60
17:42:13  <Samu> @calc 4*240
17:42:13  <DorpsGek> Samu: 960
17:42:17  <Samu> hmm ... :(
17:42:25  <andythenorth> NoCarGoal was really fun for coop
17:42:37  <Samu> i need more ram
17:42:54  <andythenorth> me too
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17:43:49  <Samu> there's an AI with "memory leak", it's BorkAI if I recall
17:43:56  <supermop> andyland coop
17:44:38  <Samu> it's not exactly a memory leak, just that he needs more than 4 GB
17:44:41  <andythenorth> who plays coop these days?
17:44:42  <andythenorth> anyone?
17:44:44  <Samu> can't use it on large maps
17:46:05  <supermop> i'll play
17:46:43  <andythenorth> we need a server
17:46:51  <Samu> if AIs could start their own cpu-thread or something like that, 15 AIs wouldn't slow down as much... in theory.
17:46:55  <andythenorth> and a map, and some newgrfs
17:47:09  <andythenorth> unusually, I could actually play tonight and tomorrow
17:47:19  <andythenorth> which is long enough to do a NCG 7-year game or so
17:47:38  <andythenorth> frosch was keeping a record of MP games somewhere
17:51:09  <Alberth>
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17:52:16  <andythenorth> yay
17:52:25  <andythenorth> setting the goals too high makes the MP game boring
17:52:34  <andythenorth> unwinnable is no fun
17:54:13  <Alberth> it doesn't say what is winnable
17:54:36  <supermop> andythenorth: i think you've got a decent set of newgrfs to roll with
17:54:58  <supermop> for map, use some heightmap of some island?
17:57:40  <andythenorth> looks like 512x512 is the best
17:57:57  <andythenorth> Alberth: no it doesn’t :P
17:58:20  <andythenorth> but I think we usually had 50k as the goal
17:59:03  <Alberth> just make it longer, then we always win :)
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18:02:29  <andythenorth> supermop: are you making a map?
18:02:48  <andythenorth> we’ll need $someone to put it on a coop server
18:02:59  <andythenorth> also about 5 players or so are needed
18:03:52  <Samu> gonna try 240 AIs with that patch, see what happens :p
18:07:59  <supermop> i dont have access to a server
18:08:20  <supermop> but i could make a map if you dont want to just go with some generated whatever
18:13:12  <Samu> does not compile
18:13:21  <Samu> can't mix his patch with mine :(
18:14:54  <supermop> hawaii?
18:14:59  <supermop> mexico DF?
18:16:17  <Samu> tons of weird warnings
18:16:21  <Samu> but it compiles
18:16:57  <Samu> assertion on openttd launch ... bah, i fail
18:18:12  <Samu> saveload error stuff
18:18:29  <Samu> invalid chunck bla bla
18:18:32  <andythenorth> supermop: have to make a map for newgrfs and settings and stuff
18:18:39  <andythenorth> then copy it to a coop server
18:18:42  <andythenorth> dunno which one
18:19:00  <andythenorth> we probably all have to have same OpenTTD
18:19:03  <andythenorth> or so
18:19:09  <supermop> do you care what type of terrain?
18:19:13  <andythenorth> no
18:19:14  <supermop> 1.6.1?
18:19:18  <andythenorth> seems fine
18:19:29  <andythenorth> FIRS 2, anything but extreme
18:19:34  <andythenorth> also Road Hog
18:20:04  * andythenorth remembers that setting up a game is faff
18:20:07  <Samu> how did his patch work for him?
18:21:04  <Samu> bugfix in loading unpatched savegames . lies!
18:21:08  <supermop> give me 1 sec
18:21:11  <Samu> that's exactly where it fail
18:23:15  <Alberth> maybe it failed twice before :p
18:25:29  <Samu> what trunk version would this patch work with?
18:25:48  <Samu> he does not mention it :(
18:26:06  <Samu> and there were recent changes to saveload stuff
18:26:11  <Samu> maybe it worked before
18:27:54  <Samu> nevermind, he says Patch based on 1.6.1
18:28:22  <Samu> how am i doing this trunk version to be the same as 1.6.1?
18:28:56  <andythenorth> hmm
18:30:03  <Alberth> svn switch iirc, but I would need to look it up
18:31:16  <Samu> 27609?
18:31:45  <Samu> let's try
18:31:45  * andythenorth can’t remember how to use coop servers
18:32:05  <Alberth> Samu: revision is not relevant, the path is
18:33:49  <Alberth> svn   /tags/1.6.1   seems to be the path
18:34:15  <Alberth> instead of  /trunk what you have now
18:35:17  <Samu> svn:// i change this?
18:35:34  <Samu> svn:// ?
18:36:05  <Samu> i rather make a new folder brb
18:36:11  <Alberth> yep,   usuallu with svn switch, but a new checkout works too
18:36:27  <Samu> ah, switch i found that
18:36:56  <Alberth> it's used for changing the path, and changing the url
18:37:14  <Alberth> quite tricky difference
18:37:25  <supermop> andythenorth: what size?
18:37:33  <Alberth> 512^2
18:37:46  <Alberth> Samu:  new checkout is much safer
18:38:10  <supermop> what rail set?
18:39:21  <Samu> ok
18:40:14  <supermop> swedish houses?
18:41:38  <supermop> japanese?
18:43:30  <andythenorth> Iron Horse? :P
18:43:34  <andythenorth> NARS 2?
18:43:39  <supermop> IH
18:43:43  <supermop> termite
18:43:45  <supermop> RH
18:44:02  <supermop> in a hot country?
18:44:22  <supermop> tropic basic?
18:44:31  <andythenorth> either
18:45:43  <supermop> GS?
18:46:18  <supermop> bee reward?
18:46:21  <andythenorth> NoCarGoal
18:46:23  <supermop> nocar goal
18:46:25  <andythenorth> 50k
18:46:25  <supermop> ok
18:46:41  <andythenorth> you might have to generate a few times to get 3 interesting cargos
18:48:41  <andythenorth> we used to play on the coop dev server or such
18:48:42  <andythenorth> ach
18:48:47  <andythenorth> dunno
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18:49:10  <Samu> it is building upon tags/1.6.1 now
18:49:14  <Samu> let's see...
18:49:26  * andythenorth doesn’t have enough upstream bandwidth, nor reliable enough connection to host
18:50:45  <Samu> oh, nice it gets to main menu :)
18:51:54  <Samu> bah, can't configure more than 14 ais
18:54:09  <Samu> i don't get it, how am i starting 240 companies? I missed something
18:54:36  <Samu> nevermind, i'm stupid
18:54:41  <Samu> didn't apply his patch at all
18:57:14  <supermop> year?
18:57:29  <andythenorth> 1950s or later
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18:57:36  <andythenorth> NCG is no fun with slow trains
18:57:53  <andythenorth> V453000 how to play an MP game?  Not many coop people here :P
18:58:08  <andythenorth> 1.6.1
18:59:13  <Samu> maximum no competitors 239. hmmm :))) `_`
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18:59:23  <Samu> time to RIP my machine
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19:03:59  <Samu> the config file is ugly to watch at, now
19:06:36  <Samu> looking at ram usage
19:06:38  <Samu> omg now
19:06:40  <V453000> u wot
19:07:29  <andythenorth> V453000: need some kind of server
19:07:30  <andythenorth> or something
19:07:50  <V453000> probably
19:07:54  <V453000> or public ip
19:08:29  <Samu> 250000 opcodes for 239 ais, this is a bad idea
19:08:30  * andythenorth has only ever played on coop server
19:08:38  <V453000> I never really hosted a game either
19:08:44  <V453000> and the technical stuff is done by our tech guys, not me
19:08:53  <V453000> I only know how to play the game and how to make people enjoy it
19:08:54  <andythenorth> is coop getting kind of dead?  The blog is way outdated
19:09:09  <andythenorth> and I stopped going in the irc channels, nothing there
19:09:17  <V453000> not really, there is just nobody to write blogs
19:09:26  <V453000> games are still being played, especially recently
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19:15:52  <supermop> ok i made a 512^2 map
19:17:33  <Samu> this is bad....
19:17:57  <Samu> - lol
19:18:12  <andythenorth> supermop: now we just need a server :D
19:18:13  <Samu> do ppl really want 240 companies?
19:18:41  <supermop> im at work, pretty sure i cant host from here
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19:19:41  <andythenorth> there was an openttdcoop.nightly or something
19:19:50  <andythenorth> not currently there
19:21:08  <andythenorth> planetmaker is there a way to host a 1.6.1 game on coop (not the welcome server)?
19:22:07  <V453000> andythenorth: we can upload your map to the welcome server, of if you dont mind using nightly, use prozone
19:22:18  <andythenorth> someone is playing on welcome I think
19:22:24  <andythenorth> but prozone might work
19:22:41  <andythenorth> supermop: put the save somewhere?
19:24:35  <V453000> or just send me the save, or put it on devzone
19:24:37  <V453000> I will do the resgtf
19:24:39  <supermop>
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19:27:21  <Fujk> Samu: I rather want bigger depots
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19:28:23  <V453000> have to check the newgrfs
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19:33:51  <supermop> IH, Firs, RH, termite, .se houses
19:33:55  <supermop> i think thats it
19:34:04  <supermop> squid
19:34:12  <supermop> and chips
19:35:48  <andythenorth> all bananaed
19:37:56  <supermop> yep
19:38:03  <V453000> join
19:38:18  <supermop> towns and industries randomly placed
19:39:01  <andythenorth> moar players needed
19:39:09  <supermop> need PW
19:39:17  <supermop> also says wrong version?
19:39:21  <V453000> join the channel supermop
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19:39:43  <supermop> not 1.6.1?
19:40:05  <V453000> no
19:40:23  <V453000> is that absolutely necessary?
19:40:25  <andythenorth> nightly
19:40:35  <V453000> the PW changes all the time so you need ot be in IRC to get it
19:40:58  <supermop> current nightly?
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20:17:45  <Samu> @calc 240*4
20:17:45  <DorpsGek> Samu: 960
20:17:55  <Samu> @calc 64*64
20:17:56  <DorpsGek> Samu: 4096
20:18:03  <Samu> heh
20:18:18  <Samu> 1/4 of the map for the company HQ
20:20:15  <Samu> nevertheless, i'm impressed by the patch
20:20:48  <Samu> tons of gui issues though
20:21:01  <Samu> it's not prepared to handle this many companies
20:21:31  <Samu> damn, each town with 1 statue
20:21:36  <Samu> imagine 240 statues, heh
20:21:41  <Samu> per town
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20:25:09  <Samu> too bad it uses too many bits
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20:45:46  <Samu> Milek7_: hey, did u make the 240 companies patch? :o
20:46:20  <Milek7_> yes
20:47:29  <Samu> how do you deal with 3 owners :o
20:47:46  <Samu> tram+road+rail crossing
20:49:22  <Milek7_> there is updated docs in patch, you can look at it
20:49:42  <Milek7_> docs/landscape.html and docs/landscape_grid.html
20:50:26  <Samu> i'm looking at it, but can't understand how you managed 3 owners for a single tile
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20:53:07  <Milek7_> m4 bits 3..0 and m3 bits 7..4: owner of road type 1 (tram)
20:53:20  <Milek7_> m1 bit 7 and m6 bits 1..0 and m1 bits 4..0: owner of the railway track
20:53:27  <Milek7_> m4 bits 7..5 and m7 bits 4..0: owner of the road type 0 (normal road)
20:54:43  <Samu> 8+8+8
20:54:47  <Samu> yay 24 bits
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20:56:01  <Samu> this is at tile type road? or rail?
20:56:45  <Samu> impressive :)
20:57:32  <Samu> i recently added canal owners and i struggled to fit 5 bits in 4
20:57:59  <Samu> mainly due to industry tiles
20:58:39  <Samu> how would you store a canal owner if you need 8 bits for the owner
20:58:49  <Samu> and there's only 5 bits free at industry tiles...
20:59:13  <Samu> and i used the other for canal on river, damn... i think i'm not efficient
21:01:10  <Samu> i used them all
21:05:48  <Samu> Milek7_: I kinda like it, but there's tons of gui issues, it's simply not prepared to handle this many companies
21:06:03  <Samu> did you look at it?
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21:07:08  <Samu> and 960 GB of RAM to use 240 AIs, nearly 1 TB of mem just for that, maybe in the next 10 years, this is possible :p
21:07:50  <Samu> for multiplayer, i know that I can't have more than 64 clients connected, i guess this is OS dependent
21:08:54  <Milek7_> have you found any gui issues others than that huge windows don't fit on screen?
21:09:17  <Samu> well, accessing the list of vehicles for companies
21:09:44  <Samu> must scroll with the left click button pressed down and moving the cursor, it's really not good
21:11:25  <Samu> not just vehicle list, like, anthing, story book, finances, etc
21:13:13  <Samu> some windows don't have scrollbars
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21:24:00  <Milek7_> ok, i will need to look into ottd gui system and add scrollbars
21:24:43  <Milek7_> btw. i never thought that somebody would want to start 240 ai
21:25:02  <Milek7_> or even 16 active players is already too much
21:25:04  <Samu> well i have that weird nerd dream
21:25:19  <Samu> to run 15 ais in 4096x4096
21:25:25  <Samu> but 240 is better :p
21:25:56  <Samu> some AIs really like ram
21:26:01  <Samu> some are lighter
21:26:04  <Milek7_> but on multiplayer some players buy 1 train and go away
21:26:53  <Milek7_> and i don't want to delete these companies because i don't know if they will come back or not
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21:27:21  <Milek7_> but, with 240 companies available there is no need to delete small companies ;p
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22:31:59  <Wolf01> Uhm, I'm trying to host a server, but it's not accessible, firewall and nat are ok
22:33:05  <supermop> tree server?
22:33:26  <Wolf01> Standard server
22:33:42  <Wolf01> Just want to play with a friend
22:33:56  <Wolf01> Neither IP nor serverlist (it's advertised)
22:34:06  <Wolf01> Both have the same problem
22:34:11  <supermop> hmm
22:42:23  <glx> stupid ISP doing nasty stuff with UDP ?
22:43:09  <Wolf01> I don't think so
22:43:17  <Wolf01> Never had any problem
22:44:32  <glx> maybe wrong private IP in NAT (I think you checked that already but can happen)
22:44:42  <Wolf01> Nah, it's right
22:44:52  <Wolf01> I just changed it
22:57:05  <Wolf01> It could be that I have some virtual machines?
22:57:17  <Wolf01> Maybe OTTD listen on the wrong interface
23:06:08  <glx> it should listen on all interfaces
23:06:35  <Wolf01> I have no clues
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23:10:05  <Wolf01> this is my network section in the config
23:19:37  <glx> anything in [server_bind_addresses] section ?
23:25:20  <Wolf01> I don't have that
23:26:38  <Wolf01> Oh yes, I have that, empty
23:27:51  <glx> ok so it really listen on all interfaces
23:28:40  <glx> I don't know what's wrong
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23:34:56  <Wolf01> Uh, I didn't think you could estimate a cost to change a config setting O_o
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23:58:55  <Wolf01> 'night
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