Log for #openttd on 2nd October 2016:
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00:04:58  *** NekoMaster has joined #openttd
00:05:06  <NekoMaster> Evening everybody!
00:05:50  <NekoMaster> I've got a "simple" question about a certain locomotive and its recommended use
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02:44:25  <NekoMaster> Ding
02:45:15  <NekoMaster> Anyone alive?
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04:22:45  <NekoMaster> Anyone home?
04:23:08  <NekoMaster> Why do some of my locomotives in the sorting order go out of order?
04:24:41  <NekoMaster> For Example, my EMD E7 Unit has ID 2001, and my New Haven EP5 has ID 4002, but my EP5 appears above the E7-Unit
04:25:25  <NekoMaster> (also the Vehiclesort.pnml has the ep5 near the bottom and EMD E7 is near the top)
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04:50:01  <NekoMaster> Updated the NARS ADD-ON SET
04:50:12  <NekoMaster> Version r036
04:50:25  <NekoMaster> *r0036
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06:09:59  <andythenorth> ho
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07:33:56  <Alberth> o/
07:34:11  <andythenorth> lo Alberth
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07:34:27  <Alberth> early as always :)
07:36:41  <andythenorth> 6am UK time I woke up :P
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07:43:59  <Alberth> I did that at 5am UK time, but decided to sleep a bit more :p
07:44:29  <andythenorth> found a tram to draw
07:44:51  <andythenorth> Road Hog ‘Brit’ roster is a bit misleading :P
07:44:55  <V453000> box
07:45:21  <andythenorth> cat in a box
07:45:36  * andythenorth wonders if there’ll ever be other Road Hog rosters
07:47:29  <V453000> omg hog economiez
07:47:42  <andythenorth> yair
07:47:49  <andythenorth> except…can I be arsed?
07:47:53  <V453000> idk, I am torn on this concept
07:48:03  <V453000> 1. it feels like it's nicer to make one thing properly
07:48:17  <andythenorth> it’s useful tactic to avoid bloat
07:48:18  <V453000> 2. having the variety of different climates and shit has it's own magic
07:48:23  <V453000> otherwise climate is just reskin of cargoes
07:48:39  <andythenorth> good idea = ‘put that in another roster’, not just add to existing
07:48:44  <V453000> XD
07:48:48  <andythenorth> but eh, otherwise, no
07:49:01  <andythenorth> for trains it’s worth it, but not RVs
07:49:19  <V453000> idk
07:54:33  <Alberth> nobody said you cannot make a roster by a sub-selection of your tramz :p
07:54:52  <Alberth> sort of firs-everything vs basic-climate
07:55:04  <andythenorth> considered it :)
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07:55:24  <andythenorth> but probably not interesting to me, I like to have all the different types for different cargos
07:56:01  <andythenorth> the idea of rosters was to give a different set of gameplay choices
07:56:10  <andythenorth> fast versus slow and strong or so
07:56:29  <andythenorth> but it’s hard to vary vehicle stats much and still have a good game
07:57:12  <V453000> unless you are nuts? :P
07:57:24  <Alberth> hmm, how fast can RVs go?
07:57:35  <Alberth> give small & fast a new meaning :p
07:57:37  <V453000> a retarded lot
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07:58:00  <V453000> hover bus has like 500kmh doesnt it
07:58:31  <Alberth> nice scalable multi-cargo back-bone :p
07:58:54  <andythenorth> one-piece flow
07:59:12  <andythenorth> the ultimate vehicle is probably 8t, 1/8, 500kmh
07:59:59  <V453000> 65k power, 666 capacity?
08:00:06  <Alberth> :D
08:00:30  <andythenorth> someone draw me one more pax tram
08:00:33  <andythenorth> :P
08:03:39  <V453000> just take a random train sprite from nuts
08:03:41  <V453000> fits
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09:20:49  <Alberth> moin
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09:23:16  <Wolf01> o/
09:23:39  <frosch123> hola
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09:29:49  <andythenorth> pax tramz
09:30:23  <andythenorth> previous
09:30:47  <andythenorth> every 30 years or so 1870-1990
09:34:09  <Alberth> less is better, imho :)
09:34:47  <andythenorth> less than in the first screenshot?
09:34:50  <andythenorth> or just generally?
09:35:28  <Alberth> the "previous" had a lot of different tramz, even with different sizes
09:36:10  <andythenorth> ah some were mail, confusing sorry :D
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09:38:00  <andythenorth> main thing was better visual progression old -> modern :)
09:39:15  <Alberth> pax_tramz  has more variation in doors, which make them look more different imho
09:39:25  <andythenorth> yup good
09:39:35  <Alberth> assuming the top 5 of "previous"  were pax
09:39:38  <andythenorth> yesh
09:39:45  * andythenorth is only about 10,000 pixels away from next beta
09:41:06  <Alberth> dropped the black roof also makes it look better, more fresh
09:41:14  <Wolf01> What could I do today for NRT? Sprites? (it's just a copy/paste structure and function from rails)
09:41:43  <Wolf01> Or we could define the features for the 0x10 prob?
09:41:46  <Wolf01> *prop
09:42:18  <Alberth> we can, if it involves sprinkles and magic!  :p
09:43:19  <Wolf01> Grf should provide catenary for road (trolleybus), I'm sick to see the road icon printed over the road tiles :P
09:43:20  <Alberth> but basically depends if you want to see stuff moving, I guess
09:44:10  <andythenorth> Wolf01: find out why the new grf I made won’t load?
09:44:14  <andythenorth> o_O
09:44:42  <Wolf01> I tried only the last one with cattenary bit
09:44:51  <andythenorth> Wolf01:
09:44:54  <andythenorth> two types
09:45:13  <andythenorth> Fatal: attempt to use invalid ID (sprite 80)
09:45:33  <andythenorth>
09:45:38  <Wolf01> I'll try it on the afternoon
09:45:55  <andythenorth> I am taking kids to park for an hour or so now
09:48:36  <Wolf01> I'll be back in 2 hours
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09:51:47  <Wolf01> Also I was thinking... why have both "rail" and "elrail" menu items? With different RailTypes you end up having 20 items instead of 5: rail, elrail, third rail, dual power multiplied by slow speed, normal speed, high speed and narrow gauge.. wouldn't it be possible to change the gui (not the spec) to add a powered method compatible with that rail? For example an "add catenary" or "add third
09:51:47  <Wolf01> rail" button in the build rail roolbar?
09:53:25  <Wolf01> It should work like the convert rail tool, but the convert rail converts only between speeds
09:56:13  <Wolf01> In fact, when you add catenary or third rail, you convert it to the other railtype, but without showing to the user that it's another railtype
09:57:31  <Wolf01> Going out now, bbl
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10:17:22  <Milek7_> how to add scrollbar to window?
10:18:35  <Milek7_> i tried adding NWID_VSCROLLBAR widget but now only scrollbar is visible
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10:21:06  <Alberth> please show the code in a pastebin
10:22:11  <Alberth> likely, you need a new container, as you need to define where in the window the scrollbar should be added
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10:36:46  <Milek7_>
10:36:56  <Milek7_>
10:44:48  <Alberth> iirc, WT_PANEL is also a container, so you added the scrollbar as content of the panel
10:45:30  <Alberth> end the panel container before adding the scrollbar
10:45:49  <Alberth> ie insert a "EndContainter(),"   line
10:46:26  <Alberth> note that ysize = 0  makes the panel very thin :)
10:48:09  <Milek7_> thanks, now it works
10:49:23  <Alberth> panel can be used as just a canvas to draw on, and as a background for more widgets
10:50:59  <Milek7_> hm, but original code don't have endcontainer for panel
10:51:06  <Milek7_> it is valid?
10:52:42  <Alberth> technically it isn't, but code closes all container when it reaches the end of the array as a safety measure
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11:19:41  <Alberth> o/
11:20:40  <andythenorth> lo
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11:46:43  <Wolf01> o/
11:49:26  <Wolf01> andythenorth, what is different in the 2 roadtypes grf, other than the second roadtype?
12:00:28  <Wolf01> Also, isn't possible to have a stack frame  windows instead of that stupid dropdown in VS2015?
12:02:03  <Wolf01> Ok, found it, its well hidden
12:02:21  <Alberth> second problem solved :)
12:04:10  <Wolf01> call stack, maybe I miss something
12:05:19  <Alberth> names are not even familiar to me
12:08:48  <Wolf01> Could it be that I don't even try to load sprites for roadtypes?
12:19:33  <andythenorth> Wolf01: the name, and the label, and the catenary flag are different
12:19:49  <Wolf01> Could be the label?
12:20:27  <Wolf01> dbg: [grf] [example_roadtype_two_types.grf:4] RoadTypeReserveInfo: Road type property found 0x1B, num info 1
12:20:28  <Wolf01> dbg: [grf] [example_roadtype_two_types.grf:80] RoadTypeReserveInfo: Road type property found 0x1B, num info 1
12:20:42  <Wolf01> Also, what are "4" and "80"?
12:22:58  <Alberth> random guess: sprite number?
12:24:45  <Wolf01> As the error shows invalid sprite id 80, yes
12:26:49  <Wolf01> Ok, I have only 1 roadtype in roadtype map
12:27:42  <Wolf01> The second one didn't reserve
12:28:23  <andythenorth> not sure if the grf is valid
12:28:52  * andythenorth has to go out for a few hours
12:29:02  <andythenorth> but the grf should decompile with grfcodec ok
12:29:05  <andythenorth> bbl
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12:33:22  <Wolf01> Ok, seem to be the label
12:33:54  <Wolf01> Always return INVALID_ROADTYPE when trying to allocate a new roadtype because the label i "0"
12:33:57  <Wolf01> *is
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12:38:56  <NGC3982> I think i got the jist of factorio
12:38:58  <NGC3982> Fantastic game
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13:09:21  <V453000> NGC3982: :)
13:13:15  <V453000> frosch123: found out the generation of rough tiles is somehow very weird
13:13:20  <V453000>
13:13:34  <V453000> this particular sprite appears in strange arrays
13:16:03  <Wolf01> Nice, it reminds me the prime numbers distribution map
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13:28:16  <frosch123> V453000: GB(ti->x ^ ti->y, 4, 3)
13:28:30  <V453000> wa
13:28:56  <frosch123> there are 4 rough land sprites
13:29:07  <V453000> yes
13:29:10  <frosch123> the graphics are choosen depending on the position on the map, not randomly
13:29:17  <V453000> o
13:29:20  <V453000> well okay
13:29:22  <frosch123> we just need a better function at that place
13:29:26  <V453000> but the other types seem to look random
13:29:38  <V453000> the "hole" one is doing -- - - -- --- :)
13:29:39  <V453000> yeah
13:29:40  <frosch123> the decision rough/not rough is random
13:29:51  <V453000> o_o
13:29:52  <frosch123> but if it  is rough, then above code decides the 4 versions
13:29:58  <V453000> interesting
13:30:02  <V453000> why isn't it random as well?
13:31:01  <frosch123> wait, there are 8 versions
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13:35:13  <frosch123> 182 mib of yeti ...
13:35:28  <V453000> ... :_
13:35:30  <V453000> :)
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13:42:04  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27657 trunk/src/clear_cmd.cpp (2016-10-02 15:41:56 +0200 )
13:42:04  <frosch123> try next nightly, whether it looks better
13:42:05  <DorpsGek> -Change: Replace another occurence of the ancient tilehash function with the newer one. This time to make rough land appear more random.
13:43:56  <Samu> new versions ! :)
13:44:40  <frosch123> it's possibly that it looks worse :)
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13:45:14  <frosch123> the newer hash function has a lower frequency, so neighboured tiles are likely to have the same variant
14:03:59  <Samu> who's a compiler expert?
14:06:08  <Samu> - i tried to build a SSE openttd, it crashes a little after reaching main menu
14:08:06  <Samu> visualstudio code generator defaults to SSE2, which works, but i need to make a non-SSE2 build to be able to run on my old cpu Athlon XP 2700+
14:09:53  <Samu> using openttd_vs140.vcxproj
14:13:25  <Samu> forgot to mention, it crashes on the release win32 build, but not on the debug win32 build
14:13:56  <V453000> let's see frosch123  :) thanks
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14:15:08  <Samu> didn't try x64 buids as the athlon xp 2700+ is a 32-bit cpu only t.t doesn't interest me, but i can test it
14:15:16  <Samu> brb
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14:19:33  <Samu> testing on fx-8150, debug x64 with /arch:SSE - does not crash
14:20:10  <Samu> testing on fx-8150, release x64 with /arch:SSE - does not crash
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14:25:50  <Samu> testing on fx-8150, release Win32 with /arch:SSE - CRASH!
14:27:50  <Samu> testing on fx-8150, debug Win32 with /arch:SSE - does not crash
14:28:06  <Samu> the build that matters crashes, just my luck :(
14:28:23  <Samu> who can help? what can i do?
14:30:02  <Milek7_> where it crashes?
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14:32:27  <Samu> reaches main menu and crashes immediately
14:32:58  <Samu> visual studio points at here: this->LeaveStation();
14:33:09  <Samu> vehicle.cpp line 2156
14:33:40  <Samu> tException thrown at 0x00FD0041 in openttd.exe: 0xC0000005: Access violation executing location 0x00FD0041.
14:41:36  <Samu> this is the next statement to execute when this thread returns from the current function.
14:41:48  <Samu> how do i find out what's the current function?
14:42:30  <Samu> >	openttd.exe!00fd0041()	Unknown - is this the current function?
14:42:44  <Samu> source code unavailable :(
14:44:10  <Samu> disassembly code
14:44:12  <Samu> 00FD0041  add         byte ptr [eax],al
14:44:21  <Samu> this is where it crashes, no idea what it means
14:48:05  <Milek7_> it crashes in this->LeaveStation() or before?
14:48:32  <Samu> seems to be before that
14:48:49  <Samu> that is the next statement
14:49:41  <Samu> this->PlayLeaveStationSound();
14:49:52  <Samu> gonna try disable sounds, brb
14:50:00  <Milek7_> this empty virtual function
14:50:32  <Milek7_> probably was optimized out
14:51:10  <Samu> tried with no sound packs
14:51:14  <Samu> still crashes
14:52:44  <Milek7_> what is value of this?
14:53:06  <Samu> +		this	0x0493b688 {tcache={cached_override=0x00000000 <NULL> cached_tilt=false user_def_data=0 '\0' ...} other_multiheaded_part=...}	Vehicle * {Train}
14:53:19  <Samu> it's a vehicle cache
14:53:22  <Samu> i think
14:53:32  <Samu> it's a train
14:53:45  <Samu> it has a huge amount of info
14:55:29  <Samu> it's a train at tile 23413
14:56:08  <Milek7_> eax is 0xC0000005?
14:56:41  <Samu> how do I know that?
14:57:21  <Milek7_> there should be window with cpu registers in debugger
14:57:41  <Milek7_> eax, edx, ebx, ...
14:57:47  <Wolf01> Mmmh, InitializeRoadGui() seem to not be called, also for rail there are 2 functions with the same name where changes only the case of Gui -> GUI
15:01:13  <Samu> I see this
15:02:09  <Samu> and this
15:02:15  <Samu> erm, refresh, it's two images
15:08:37  <Milek7_> i don't know
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15:08:49  <Milek7_> maybe check compiling on mingw
15:12:09  <Milek7_> and i just compiled for win32 with /arch:SSE
15:12:13  <Milek7_> and it works
15:12:30  <Samu> ming is better than visual studio?
15:12:57  <Samu> let me search mingw
15:13:26  <Milek7_>
15:15:46  <Samu> holy crap, that's hell
15:17:13  <Samu> i'm too noob for mingw
15:17:20  <Samu> but let me try
15:20:01  <Samu> am i really downloading a 2012 version?
15:20:57  <Samu>
15:21:09  <Samu> but we're in 2016 is this guide still valid?
15:21:12  <Milek7_> newer should also work
15:21:40  <Milek7_> and also newer libraries
15:25:28  <Milek7_>
15:25:52  <Milek7_> try that
15:26:08  <Milek7_> if it works i can compile version with other patches
15:29:19  <Samu> windows smartscreen does not like your .exe lol
15:31:03  <Dakkus> Whoa... I am visitin my sister at her music studio... And in one of the studio rooms a friend of ours is playing seriously good music that sounds JUST like TTD music.
15:31:25  <Dakkus> Is it any use if I ask him to donate a few songs for OTTD?
15:31:40  <Dakkus> Because I think he just might. And damn does that music sound like authentic OTTD!
15:31:42  <Samu> sec, lang pack file stuff, is this based on 1.6.1?
15:31:50  <Milek7_> yes
15:32:01  <Samu> ok, brb
15:32:37  <Dakkus> (Wonder if this similarity has something to do with me being in Bristol, around Chris Sawyer's home region)
15:33:49  <Samu> it runs!
15:33:56  <Samu> but dpi settings kinda suck
15:35:35  <Samu> problem solved
15:36:32  <Milek7_> hm? how?
15:37:54  <Samu> it's a windows 10 compatibility issue
15:38:38  <Samu> sec, let me find
15:39:30  <Samu>
15:43:26  <Samu> this is outdated
15:43:39  <Milek7_> what patches do you need?
15:43:43  <Samu> Select "Use pre-packaged repository catalogues". there is no such package
15:45:29  <Samu> ahm, none at the moment, I'm not going to use the athlon xp anytime soon, maybe in 4 months
15:45:48  <Samu> that rig is on my old house, i won't go there anytime soon
15:48:52  <Samu> i was only testing if i could build a SSE openttd
15:52:06  <Milek7_> what VS version you used?
15:52:17  <Samu> 2015
15:52:33  <Samu> openttd_vs140.vcxproj
15:52:35  <Milek7_> hm
15:52:48  <Milek7_> i also compiled this exe with it
15:54:56  <Samu> microsoft visual studio express update 3
15:55:20  <Samu> microsoft visual studio express 2015 version 14.0.25420.01 update 3
15:56:15  <Samu> 11,5 MB (12.133.376 bytes)
15:56:51  <Samu> 13,0 MB (13.670.400 bytes)
15:56:56  <Samu> meh... i dunno
15:57:06  <Samu> different exe sizes
15:57:31  <Samu> gonna try building 240 ais here
15:57:45  <Samu> think that version is not 32-bit
15:59:38  <Milek7_> hm?
15:59:39  <Milek7_> openttd_mc_win32.exe: PE32 executable (GUI) Intel 80386, for MS Windows
16:00:32  <Samu> my version, sorry
16:00:41  <Samu> i made a 64-bit version
16:00:56  <Samu> building a 32-bit sse now
16:01:09  <Milek7_> 64bit with /arch:SSE?
16:01:56  <Samu> i built your 240 companies as 64-bit with default architecture, which is SSE2
16:02:10  <Samu> now i'm building it as 32-bit with SSE
16:03:05  <Samu> there is a lot of performance warnings
16:03:14  <Samu> but i don't think it matters, it compiles
16:03:34  <Milek7_> i will fix these stupid warning in next version
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16:03:43  <Milek7_> it don't like (bool)something
16:03:49  <Milek7_> it want something != 0
16:04:33  <Milek7_> my exe is compiled with this patch
16:04:51  <Samu> my build 11,5 MB (12.132.864 bytes)
16:05:00  <Samu> yours 11,5 MB (12.133.376 bytes)
16:05:08  <Samu> heh, whatever
16:05:17  <Samu> it's always different, no matter what
16:05:32  <Samu> gonna try run mine
16:06:12  <Samu> funny, it didn't crash
16:06:35  <Samu> so it crashes on trunk, but not on 1.6.1
16:07:17  <Samu> gonna try the real trunk
16:07:21  <Samu> with no patches applied
16:07:23  <Samu> brb
16:08:10  <Samu> trunk r27657
16:08:33  <Milek7_> msvc linker is terribly slow
16:11:08  <Samu> there are 3 solutions where I change the architecture instructions thing to SSE
16:11:24  <Samu> openttd, settingsgen and strgen
16:11:54  <Samu> ok rebuilding
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16:13:33  <Samu> release win32, almost there... zzz so slow
16:15:21  <Samu> crash
16:15:22  <andythenorth> o/
16:15:23  <Samu> Exception thrown at 0x00FD0041 in openttd.exe: 0xC0000005: Access violation executing location 0x00FD0041.
16:15:36  <Samu> well, so 1.6.1 is fine, but trunk is not
16:16:12  <Milek7_> strange
16:16:21  <Samu> gonna try removing the opntittle.dat
16:16:38  <Samu> there will be no savegame conversion
16:17:54  <Milek7_>
16:18:11  <Milek7_> oops
16:18:41  <Milek7_> ok, try it
16:18:44  <Milek7_> it works for me
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16:19:33  <Samu> well that means i suck at configuring this thing to make SSE builds
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16:21:07  <Samu> nice, yours works
16:21:20  <Samu> just needs dpi compatibility
16:23:13  <Samu> without opntittle.dat mine doesn't crash, let me try build a vehicle or so, brb
16:24:37  <Samu> crash on map generation
16:24:40  <Samu> t.t
16:25:18  <Samu> [00] openttd              0x0057E371 SQVM::Call + 362 (d:\openttd\trunk\srcrdparty\squirrel\squirrel\sqvm.cpp:1484)
16:26:32  <Samu> gonna test 1.6.1 on map generation
16:29:52  <andythenorth> is cat tramz
16:32:12  <andythenorth> bloody mail tramz, hard to provide visual variety
16:32:18  <andythenorth> got 3 generations, all v. similar
16:32:38  <Wolf01> So, there's andy
16:33:05  <Wolf01> andythenorth, I don't know why it doesn't load, it seem a problem with the label, but I'm not sure
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16:33:28  <Samu> 1.6.1 doesn't crash on map generation
16:33:36  <Samu> i dont get this
16:33:47  <Wolf01> Also, I'm committing some changes
16:34:06  <Samu> r27657 crashes
16:34:22  <Samu> buff r27657
16:34:24  <Samu> plz
16:35:10  <andythenorth> Wolf01: in a bit, I can try changing props one at a time to isolate the issue
16:35:15  <andythenorth> feeding the kids right now ;)
16:35:34  <Samu> generating a 4096x4096 with 1.6.1 sse build
16:35:43  <Wolf01> I think you should be able at least to test gui sprites and catenary
16:35:52  <Wolf01> But for sprites I'm not sure
16:36:00  <Samu> 		feedback	Error reading register value.
16:37:02  <Samu> nevermind, this is for r27657
16:37:07  <Samu> this error
16:37:44  <Samu> map generated, AIs started playing
16:41:23  <Samu> but on r27657, map was generated, then shortly after... crash
16:41:50  <Samu> crashed on 2nd January
16:42:00  <Samu> >	openttd.exe!SQVM::Call(SQObjectPtr & closure, __int64 nparams, __int64 stackbase, SQObjectPtr & outres, unsigned __int64 raiseerror, unsigned __int64 can_suspend) Line 1484	C++
16:44:02  <Samu> Milek7_: how did you configure SSE on visual studio?
16:44:08  <Samu> maybe i'm doing it wrong
16:46:49  <Milek7_> C/C++ -> Code Generation -> Enable Enhanced Instruction Set -> /arch:SSE
16:49:39  <Samu> strange i did the same, did you make it to openttd only?
16:50:38  <Samu> configuration: all configurations
16:50:43  <Samu> platform: all platforms
16:55:31  <andythenorth> ah, here’s the RL tram I already drew
16:55:36  <andythenorth> Milan apparently
16:55:56  <Alberth> :)   good colour
17:12:21  <Samu> doesn't work
17:12:30  <Samu> i have no idea what i'm doing wrong
17:13:04  <Samu> can i report this crash, or it doesn't matter?
17:14:38  <Samu> what the hell, it didn't crash now? :(
17:15:41  <Samu> why u no crash now? :(
17:16:35  <Milek7_> how to use Scrollbar?
17:17:15  <Milek7_> there is SetCount, but where i should set element heigth?
17:17:58  <Samu> oh milek, i can't manually set 240 companies when creating a multiplayer game via gui
17:18:06  <Samu> doesn't let me enter 3 digits
17:18:18  <Samu> i can type 99 though
17:18:19  *** Snail has joined #openttd
17:21:08  <Samu> i think my vcxproj was corrupt, i created a new one
17:21:16  <Samu> now i don't get errors
17:21:21  <Samu> no crashes
17:21:44  <Samu> 11,6 MB (12.266.496 bytes) - mine
17:21:53  <Samu> 11,7 MB (12.268.544 bytes) - yours
17:22:17  <Wolf01> andythenorth, I'm going to try to set fire to the house, if you are able to do some tests meanwhile... ah for sprites please look at the spec in road.h, while the cursor has offset by 1 because I tried to load the current sprites you provided
17:22:20  <Samu> yours say OpenTTD norev000
17:22:43  <Samu> mine say OpenTTD r27657
17:23:23  <Milek7_> yes, but mine is from git master
17:24:16  <Samu> no idea what that means
17:24:29  <Samu> git master?
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17:24:53  <Samu> git master? git gud!
17:25:43  <Milek7_> Samu: network/network_gui.cpp:1158
17:25:58  <Milek7_> to
17:26:36  <Samu> i suppose git master is above git gud meme
17:26:56  <Samu>
17:27:42  <Milek7_>;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/master
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17:49:00  <Samu> damn Wolf01 i just read your message, lool
17:49:27  <Wolf01> :)
17:49:30  <Wolf01> I survived
17:56:29  <Samu> there's problems with your build
17:56:49  <Samu> some AIs are erroring saying Build 0
17:57:09  <Samu> trans need 18520 and your is 0
17:57:37  <Samu> OpenTTD ver 1.7 Rev.0 Build 0
17:57:43  <andythenorth> such mail tram
17:57:50  * andythenorth sorted those out
17:59:50  <Samu> OpenTTD ver 1.7 Build.0 Rev.27657
18:00:07  <Samu> yeah, trans works on mine :p
18:01:43  <Wolf01> It's useless to draw trams without NRT ;)
18:01:59  <andythenorth> it’s useless to draw mining trucks without NRT :P
18:13:11  <andythenorth> Wolf01: openttd.cpp L950?
18:14:03  <Wolf01> How stupid I am from 10 to 10?
18:14:45  *** aard has joined #openttd
18:18:24  <andythenorth> happens :)
18:18:27  <andythenorth> pair coding :P
18:31:22  <Wolf01> Ok, I don't know what else to do now, I miss some.. things.. which need a revision of the code, but before doing those I would like to have at least this part working
18:38:40  <andythenorth> Wolf01: I am compiling
18:40:29  <Wolf01> DrawRoadBits() is a mess, I need to find a way to be able to define sprites on the grf without defining sprites for all the climates, also layered ones (but I need frosch help here)
18:42:20  <andythenorth> Wolf01: is it now defined to draw catenary *only* if the bit is set?  [default tram tracks have no catenary]
18:42:36  <Wolf01> Yes
18:48:04  <frosch123> does andy's grf have sprites?
18:48:16  <Wolf01> Dunno
18:51:55  <frosch123> can i see it somewhere? :p
18:59:02  <frosch123> it has
18:59:35  <frosch123> Wolf01: do you have something analog to RailTypeMapSpriteGroup?
19:00:16  <Wolf01> There should be RoadTypeMapSpriteGroup
19:00:25  <Wolf01>
19:02:03  <frosch123> which branch?
19:02:43  <Wolf01> dev, If I didn't change it wrongly
19:03:32  <Wolf01> Yes, dev
19:03:57  <Wolf01> All the VS projects have the same name, and I have at least 4 projects
19:04:55  <frosch123> can you load andy's grf without fatal error?
19:05:01  <Wolf01> No
19:06:01  <frosch123> so, that's the next goal then :)
19:06:58  <Wolf01> Yes, but I don't know if is the grf or the code
19:07:22  <frosch123> 65% cloned
19:07:50  <Wolf01> The code looks right, but can't allocate a new roadtype
19:12:37  <andythenorth> frosch123:
19:12:43  <andythenorth> but I have an nml fork also
19:12:47  <andythenorth> with the example grf in it
19:12:56  <frosch123> i decoded it to nfo :p
19:15:23  <andythenorth> might not be legit
19:15:45  <frosch123> how do i checkout a branch in git?
19:15:52  <frosch123> or did i even clone it correctly?
19:16:15  <andythenorth> git checkout [branch name]
19:16:24  <andythenorth> or git co if you have the magic config for that
19:17:17  <frosch123> i did git checkout -B dev
19:17:25  <frosch123> i think that created a new branch "dev"
19:17:34  <frosch123> how can i check whether i even pulled it?
19:17:39  <Wolf01> I use git clone --recursive
19:18:12  <andythenorth> git branch
19:18:15  <andythenorth> tells you branches
19:18:32  <andythenorth> usually you get them all if you do a straightforward git clone
19:18:33  <frosch123> so i did not clone it
19:18:43  <andythenorth> try git fetch
19:19:25  <Alberth> you need a clone for that :p
19:19:39  <frosch123> i did "git clone"
19:19:43  <frosch123> it only gave me master
19:20:05  <Alberth> git checkout origin/dev     if dev is the branch
19:20:34  <Alberth> you get in detached head state, meaing it won't save your commits
19:21:11  <Alberth> git branch dev  # make local label
19:21:24  <Alberth> git checkout dev   # checkout local label
19:21:40  <Alberth> latter 2 can be combined, but no idea how
19:22:42  <andythenorth> I never figured that out
19:22:47  <Alberth> git branch -a  # list all branches, including remote ones
19:22:52  <frosch123> thanks
19:22:59  <frosch123> i was worried i had to reclone :p
19:23:09  <andythenorth> my most common git irritation is typing ‘git co [new-branch-that-doesn’t-exist-yet]’ :P
19:25:49  <andythenorth> Wolf01: the catenary bit is working
19:25:54  <Wolf01> Yup
19:26:02  * andythenorth doing one change at a time in the grf
19:27:49  <andythenorth> Wolf01: the grf fails on sprite 4 if I change the label
19:27:59  <andythenorth> with just one roadtype defined in the grf
19:28:23  <Wolf01> So it's related to the label as I thought initially, but how?
19:28:34  <Wolf01> I copied that from rails
19:34:02  <Wolf01> frosch123, AllocateRoadType() in road_cmd.cpp:118, is there something wrong there?
19:38:33  * andythenorth wonders how to debug C++ :P
19:39:53  <andythenorth> let’s skip that for today
19:39:55  <andythenorth> because
19:41:12  <Wolf01> Oh it's not complicated, just "put a breakpoint there and F10 / F11"
19:45:03  <frosch123> well, you only have 2 roadtypes, and they are both used by the default road and tram
19:46:00  <frosch123> let's try "ROADTYPE_END = 16"
19:47:53  <Wolf01> Oh, ok
19:49:01  <Wolf01> I didn't looked at how the railtype enum was structured
19:49:42  <Wolf01> assert_compile(lengthof(road_owner) == ROADTYPE_END);
19:49:52  <Wolf01> In station_cmd
19:50:14  <Wolf01> I think that check should be done in a different way
19:55:23  <frosch123> lots off stuff to change to increase ROADTYPE_END :)
19:55:35  <Wolf01> Uh oh... problems with roadtype owner
19:55:56  <Wolf01> Should I change the switches to loops?
19:56:08  <Wolf01> And ensure only 2 roadypes are on a tile?
19:56:23  <frosch123> hmm, i guess ROADTYPE_END was wrong then
19:56:35  <Wolf01> switch (rt) {
19:56:35  <Wolf01> 		default: NOT_REACHED();
19:56:35  <Wolf01> 		case ROADTYPE_ROAD: return (Owner)GB(IsNormalRoadTile(t) ? _m[t].m1 : _me[t].m7, 0, 5);
19:56:35  <Wolf01> 		case ROADTYPE_TRAM: {
19:56:37  <frosch123> we need ROADTYPE_END = 2, STREETTYPE_END = 16 or so
19:56:40  <Wolf01> This won't work too
19:57:25  <Wolf01> All functions for ownership of road have roadtypes hardcoded
19:57:37  <frosch123> yeah, ownership is based on road/tram
19:57:44  <frosch123> we need STREETTYPE_END = 16
19:58:22  <Wolf01>  STREETTYPE_END = 16 and TRAMTYPE_END =16 too
19:58:59  <frosch123> that woudl then requrie splitting _roadtypes into _tramtypes
19:59:48  <frosch123> sounds like chicken/egg :p
20:01:13  <frosch123> so, if we keep road/tram ids separate, the reservation of the label already needs to nkow the type
20:02:01  <frosch123> andythenorth: how does the grf define whether a type is road or tram?
20:03:22  <frosch123> maybe property 0x08: Define label for roadtype, 0x0X: define label for tramtype?
20:04:00  <frosch123> meh, i thought we could postpone the compatibility-stuff to the end :p
20:04:00  <Wolf01> Or compatibility set with base roadtypes?
20:04:06  <Milek7_> how to use scrollbars?
20:04:59  <andythenorth> frosch123: so far there is no definition of that :)
20:05:06  <andythenorth> I figured it would have to be a property
20:05:06  <frosch123> yeah, i think we need two properties to define labels
20:05:12  <andythenorth> not just a flag?
20:05:19  <frosch123> one to create a roadtype, one to create a tramtype
20:05:25  <Samu>
20:05:44  <frosch123> andythenorth: question is whether you are allowed to define a roadtype with the same label as some other tramtype
20:06:05  <frosch123> are labels unique across road/tram, or only within their type?
20:06:43  <andythenorth> errrr
20:06:56  <andythenorth> unique within type?
20:07:11  <andythenorth> they are otherwise totally orthogonal w.r.t vehicles?
20:07:26  <frosch123> so you can have both a WOLF road, and a WOLF tram
20:07:40  * andythenorth envisages that if overlapping, we end up arguing about for 6 months in forums
20:08:04  <andythenorth> “all labels for tram must be ’T___’”
20:08:12  <frosch123> :p
20:08:16  <andythenorth> “all labels for road must be ‘R____’"
20:08:22  <andythenorth> except on Tuesdays
20:08:39  <andythenorth> and then someone will use T for Trolleybus road
20:08:52  <andythenorth> “zomg sky has fallen, major newgrf author rage quits"
20:09:05  <Wolf01> For road should be RO__, to avoid confusion with RAIL
20:09:23  <andythenorth> for tram, should always be TRAM to be explicit :P
20:09:45  <Samu> NOTROAD
20:09:49  <Samu> j/k
20:10:10  <Wolf01> Nope. Only 4 chars -> uint32
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20:10:43  <andythenorth> see the problem?
20:10:51  <Wolf01> Yep
20:11:01  <Samu> ROAD road
20:11:04  <Samu> ROAD tram
20:12:45  <frosch123>
20:13:48  <frosch123> i wonder, should there be two GRF features?
20:14:10  <frosch123> usually you identify stuff by feature+id
20:14:20  <frosch123> but not we add this road/tram as subfeature
20:14:26  <frosch123> i think road should be 12 and tram 13
20:14:31  <frosch123> two grf features :)
20:14:51  <Wolf01> Featurexplosion
20:16:01  <frosch123>
20:16:14  <frosch123> currently I think separate GRF features are best :p
20:16:49  <Samu> trams are trains on roads
20:17:38  <andythenorth> frosch123: +0.5 to separate grf features
20:18:12  <andythenorth> it’s quite a lot of fragmentation, same features, implemented twice
20:18:26  <frosch123> you can share the code
20:18:30  <andythenorth> unless we unify all the functions, but I dunno, I would be lost about unifying parser functions
20:18:37  <frosch123> train/road/ship/aircraft also share lots
20:18:43  <andythenorth> might be andythenorth lack of programming ability :P
20:18:58  <Samu> there are trucks separate from buses
20:19:55  <Samu> why do you separate trams from roads?
20:20:03  <Samu> i mean, what's the idea behind
20:20:06  <Samu> or goal
20:21:48  <andythenorth> frosch123: cleaner to just split them to different features, surely?
20:21:54  * andythenorth is now convinced
20:22:10  <andythenorth> opens the way to splitting ROAD_VEH in future maybe also
20:22:28  <andythenorth> although that might not be beneficial
20:22:36  <andythenorth> eh it ruins my current templating :P
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20:22:59  <Samu> while you're at it, separate intercontinental from large airports
20:23:23  <Samu> along with some aircraft vehicles that look too big to be on a large aiport
20:23:32  <Samu> but not on intercontinental
20:23:38  <frosch123> considering all the compatibiilty properites, which list labels of other things
20:23:55  <frosch123> it makes all the difference whether you can list labels of other things :)
20:25:32  <andythenorth> seems cleaner to me to enforce the separation
20:26:28  <Wolf01> What is prop 0x07?
20:26:54  <frosch123> same as 8, but road/tram swapped
20:27:09  <Wolf01> But props start from 0x08, is it safe?
20:27:30  <frosch123> we just decided for option 3 :p
20:27:36  <frosch123> so, we do not need 7
20:27:43  <Wolf01> Ok
20:29:59  <Wolf01> So, id 12 = road and 13 = tram
20:30:18  <frosch123> but i think adding ROADTYPE_ROAD/TRAM to GetRoadTypeByLabel and AllocateRoadType is stilll good
20:30:29  <Wolf01> I could put some conditions on the RoadTypeReserveInfo() to avoid entire duplication
20:30:52  <frosch123> essentially we get RoadtypeInfo _roadtypes[ROADTYPE_END][STREETTYPE_END]
20:31:07  <Wolf01> Yes
20:34:37  <andythenorth> can we do tram later :P
20:34:48  * andythenorth doesn’t want to extend spaghetti into nmlc tonight :)
20:34:57  <Wolf01> +1
20:35:39  <frosch123> still needs finding all the places which need to use StreetType instead of RoadType
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20:38:07  <Wolf01> Only 72 places?
20:38:42  <andythenorth> about that many
20:40:28  <Wolf01> Ownership could be left as is, it doesn't need to explode the exact type
20:40:54  <frosch123> it even must stay as is :p
20:41:05  <frosch123> you have no more map bits
20:41:31  <Wolf01> You have them, but Milek7_ could not do anymore 240 players :>
20:45:15  <frosch123> i thought you wanted to store 16 road and 16 tram owners per tile
20:46:26  <Wolf01> That would be cool too, but I would like more different types per tile
20:47:55  <andythenorth> elevated tramway? o_O
20:47:57  <andythenorth> as a type :P
20:48:33  <Wolf01> If you want to rewrite the state machine to allow elevated vehicles
20:48:51  <andythenorth> just offset them
20:48:58  <andythenorth> it’s a third roadtype :P
20:49:03  * andythenorth is not serious
20:49:05  <andythenorth> also subway :P
20:49:09  <Wolf01> It won't behave well in curves
20:49:50  <andythenorth> or tunnels :P
20:50:09  <andythenorth> or when crossing catenary
20:50:30  <Wolf01> Ripped catenary
20:50:53  * andythenorth must bed
20:52:17  <andythenorth> bye :)
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20:52:42  <Wolf01> Do frosch wants to continue or bed too?
20:52:56  <frosch123> latter
20:53:32  <Wolf01> Ok, so I could start anime night and go to see it on bed too :P
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21:06:15  <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> elevated tramway? o_O <- idea is not that bad, but needs transition tiles between elevated and normal tram (and tram to subway)
21:06:57  <Eddi|zuHause> also, it's a bit tricky with the amount of road types on the tile
21:07:26  <Eddi|zuHause> so you could not have an elevated tram pass over a normal tram with road
21:07:45  <Eddi|zuHause> a true new tile layer might be a better idea
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21:09:29  <Wolf01> I have some ideas to have locomotion style rails too, which could be used even for roads
21:12:24  <Wolf01> You need to store start and end point of the segment, and the railtype define which segments you can place
21:12:41  <Eddi|zuHause> well, the idea i had was that you place bridge segments individually, where you can differentiate between single tile bridge segments with low height limit, or larger bridge segments with height limits only where the pillars stand
21:13:13  <Eddi|zuHause> so you have more flexibility if you're only one or two levels above the ground
21:13:30  <Eddi|zuHause> but to span larger valleys you need suspension bridges which can only be straight
21:14:42  <Wolf01> Interesting
21:19:47  <Eddi|zuHause> so a suspension bridge would consist of a starting segment from the bridge head to the pillar, a middle segment from one pillar to the next pillar (possible to repeat this segment), and the reverse of the start segment
21:20:10  <Eddi|zuHause> the segments themselves are fixed (maybe length is configurable like stations)
21:20:17  <Eddi|zuHause> but you can combine the segments as you wish
21:21:43  <Wolf01> Don't forget signals in case of rail
21:22:04  <Eddi|zuHause> the two main questions with this is: how do you store this in the map, and how do you provide the newgrf interface
21:22:47  <Eddi|zuHause> side questions are signals, crossing trackbits between parallel segments, stations, game interface
21:23:02  <Wolf01> Eh, add another array to map
21:23:25  <Eddi|zuHause> one array doesn't suffice
21:23:39  <Wolf01> Add 2, 5, 10
21:23:56  <Wolf01> And you'll get 400MB savegames
21:24:25  <Eddi|zuHause> an idea was that you make flexibly allocated "supertiles" of like 16x16 area, which stores all trackbits of a certain heightlevel
21:24:31  <Wolf01> Or just do OpenLoMo
21:25:38  <Eddi|zuHause> you want adjacent trackbits close by in memory, to aid caching effects when doing pathfinding and stuff
21:25:57  <Eddi|zuHause> so you can't just randomly allocate each bridge segment individually
21:26:32  <Eddi|zuHause> but you also can't allocate a whole map's worth array for every heightlevel, most of which will be air anyway
21:26:57  <Wolf01> Save every track type for every player as bitmap
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21:27:20  <Eddi|zuHause> how is a bitmap different from an array?
21:27:48  <Wolf01> It's the same
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21:45:57  <Samu> tiletype Air
21:46:01  <Samu> :)
21:46:39  <Samu> interesting
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22:23:18  <Wolf01> 'night
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