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00:19:26 *** mikegrb has quit IRC 00:36:21 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 00:43:11 *** keoz has quit IRC 00:44:16 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 00:44:17 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 00:45:02 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 00:45:28 *** drac_boy has joined #openttd 00:45:30 <drac_boy> hi 00:45:54 *** Snail has joined #openttd 00:46:12 <drac_boy> sorry about asking this sort of thing now but I had to wonder..how common was it probably to have a light locomotive or any dmu that only had two driven axles out of the four total? 00:51:14 *** tokai has quit IRC 00:57:59 *** Samu has quit IRC 01:05:18 *** mikegrb has joined #openttd 01:07:17 <Eddi|zuHause> the german SVTs (late-1930s) had only few driven axles 01:07:23 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 01:07:57 <Eddi|zuHause> there are lots of variations for those 01:10:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd say that until very recently, it was fairly common in MUs that only half of the axles are driven 01:11:14 <Eddi|zuHause> but for engines, it's pretty uncommon to have undriven axles since at least the 1950s 01:11:41 <Eddi|zuHause> there are a few exceptions, generally for axle weight reasons 01:12:50 <sim-al2> DMUs, especially when engines were lower powered, tended to use single axle drive when possible because transmitting power to both axles in a bogie requires a more complicated design 01:14:01 *** drac_boy has quit IRC 01:14:08 <sim-al2> hmmm 01:15:38 <sim-al2> To make for that, some of those had two engines 01:16:17 <sim-al2> The Budd RDC, and the various 50's and 60's British DMU classes are good examples 01:20:53 <Eddi|zuHause> the first SVT was built basically like this: it was a 2-part DMU with two diesel-electric engines. the front bogey housed a diesel engine, and had unpowered axles, the middle bogey was the connection between the two wagons, and had two electric engines, which drove the axles individually, and the end bogey had another diesel engine and unpowered axles 01:21:43 <Eddi|zuHause> a later series had this reversed, and some didn't have a connecting bogey, but two sets of bogeys on each wagon 01:21:59 <Eddi|zuHause> there were also 3-part and 4-part versions 01:22:20 *** drac_boy has joined #openttd 01:22:32 <drac_boy> sorry didn't noticed it froze up again till I tried reply to sim-a12 :p 01:22:45 <drac_boy> anyway as I was going to say... sim-a12 ah geeze I didn't think of the weight in transferring from inside to outside axle - good point, I'll have to remember that too :) 01:23:24 * drac_boy is kinda curious as to why oftc seem to like to just stuck up at rare times but mehs 01:23:36 <Eddi|zuHause> that's on your end 01:23:49 <sim-al2> I know that with Japanese DMUs, they avoided that until the development of the big 12 cylinder engine for the intercity DMUs required it 01:24:02 *** glx has quit IRC 01:24:26 <drac_boy> well I dunno about that as the other irc window (not oftc server tho) is still working fine the whole time 01:24:45 <drac_boy> sim-a12 really? interesting, I only know just a bit about the KIHA units but not a lot else 01:25:45 <drac_boy> oh and theres that modern tilting dmu set for operation all the way up north (I forgot the name of that island its on) .. electrification was too costly and same for trackwork so what else but to have a tilting dmu to shave minutes off there and there 01:26:10 <drac_boy> don't think I've heard of tilting dmus in serious operation anywhere else but I could be wrong tho (given my poor attempts when it comes to non-english sites) 01:26:11 <sim-al2> Up to the 60's many units were still being built with the old DMF 17 design, which dated back to the 30's and had reached it's development potential 01:26:24 <sim-al2> I think the max output was around 180hp 01:27:03 <sim-al2> There's tilitng DMUs 01:27:26 <sim-al2> Kiha 261, 281, 283 were, but in recent years it's been disabled 01:27:51 <sim-al2> There's a couple of other DMUs used in west Japan that still do though 01:28:07 <drac_boy> 180hp? hmm and if going by two engines per unit .. thats 360hp per carriage which probably isn't too bad for lighter lines 01:28:40 <sim-al2> Yeah, but still there were packaging issues 01:28:46 <drac_boy> I can see that 01:28:57 <Eddi|zuHause> tilting DMUs aren't THAT rare 01:29:23 <sim-al2> Yeah, German VT612 and it's predecessors 01:29:45 <Eddi|zuHause> there was also the ICE-TD 01:29:50 <sim-al2> The air-conditioners in use then needed a generator set, but unfortunatly that needed a good amount of space 01:30:02 <Flygon> QR Tilt Train has Diesel tilting push-pull. Teechically a DMU. :U 01:30:15 <drac_boy> also sim-a12 I recall seeing some dmu consist that was basically a mix of 1-engine and 2-engine units because of the 1-engine one sharing its belly space with something else 01:30:17 <Flygon> But the series is more famous for it's Electric set 01:30:26 <sim-al2> In the intecity DMU classes, the driving cars had it mounted behind the cab, and could power 3 cars 01:30:27 <drac_boy> might had been uk but my memory isn't being helpful now 01:30:46 <sim-al2> But for the Kiha58, it had to be under the floor, which meant removing an engine 01:31:45 <drac_boy> ahh yeah ac systems too ... at least the split systems could usually work with dual-engine units as at least half of the ac system was actually on the roof instead 01:32:19 <sim-al2> Those single engine cars were ok on level lines, but using them even with the twin engines on graded lines meant slow speeds and sometimes even getting stuck 01:32:22 <drac_boy> or in the case of usa .. just use a long chassis to make space (cue budd rdc .. even although a bit of its exhaust system sat on roof instead) 01:32:54 <drac_boy> hmm yep I can imagine that being no fun :-s 01:32:57 <sim-al2> Japan has a smaller loading guage, especially rural lines 01:33:30 <sim-al2> Also I think these air conditioners were standardized with EMUs 01:33:35 <sim-al2> At least partially 01:33:56 <sim-al2> The radiators on the RDC are roof-mounted 01:33:57 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 01:34:14 <sim-al2> There's a space in the middle of the car where the coolant lines and exhaust go through to the roof 01:34:16 <drac_boy> sim-a12 yeah I think it often was the early years that had the presence of like 3-8 ac pods on roof per unit .. the amount seem to partially depend on the interior type (especially commuter vs non-commuter) 01:35:01 <sim-al2> Yeah, the first-class cars were the first to be air-conditioned, but the plan was to eventually have fully air-coniditoned trains, especially in the warmer areas 01:36:06 <drac_boy> mm :) 01:36:19 <sim-al2> The earlier air conditoners were fairly small, and so several would be installed, often with the ventilator housings still in place 01:36:25 <sim-al2> Hence all the bumps on the roof 01:36:57 <drac_boy> btw about mixing 1-/2-engine I think it also depend on what kind of drivetrain was in use too 01:37:29 <sim-al2> Later on they moved to larger units, which combined with the removal of the ventilator housings leeds to a smooth roof with a central hump 01:38:42 <sim-al2> Yeah, the 181 series uses a large 12 cylinder engine, which developed a lot more power 01:39:22 <sim-al2> 500 hp in early versions, 660 hp in later versions 01:39:25 <drac_boy> for the budd rdc it was one engine per truck with direct drive so its not a surprise that mixing 1- or 2-engine (or in some rare instances an engineless rdc that still had the roof hump) units together as the only negativity was in mixing too much unpowered coaches on hilly routes 01:39:49 <sim-al2> There were no engineless RDCs 01:40:06 <sim-al2> There was a single-engine version with no cabs 01:40:10 <drac_boy> well from factory maybe but some railroads actually stripped them out later on .. no engine but the hump was still there 01:40:37 <drac_boy> and yeah most people think of the budd rdc as an all-seat unit but there were actually other types including all-baggage (no seats!) 01:40:49 <sim-al2> In fact, Budd threatened to not honor the warrenty if the railroad pulled non-powered coaches with RDCs 01:41:11 <sim-al2> Although apparently they could pull a coach or two fairly well 01:41:41 <sim-al2> Don't forget the post office version 01:42:05 <drac_boy> heh well I think budd couldn't do much about it really .. I've found 50-60's dated photos with budd rdc being dead-in-tow behind a PA-1 or so .. to be detached at a certain station and the hydrodrive engaged to motor off on its own side route as the PA-1 kept going on straight 01:42:32 <sim-al2> In later years with some of the early commuter railroads, I imagine many ran with dead engine anyway 01:42:48 <sim-al2> That's different 01:43:26 <sim-al2> As long as it's in neutral, it can be pulled without any problems 01:43:42 <sim-al2> In fact, there's even steam pipe fittings 01:43:55 <sim-al2> Although the engines need to be running for lighting 01:44:11 <drac_boy> also later repowers are a bit amusing. I know that via actually had cummins 600hp diesel engines .. talk about being able to get up to 100kph really fast but in reality the bumpy old rails heading toward hudson bay or further north were usually at a much more sedative speed :) 01:44:26 <sim-al2> The operations manual has a section on setting up an RDC for mid-train use like that 01:45:31 <sim-al2> I think the Dallas commuter rail system also has some repowered units 01:46:23 <drac_boy> about dmu with steam lines .. that seem to remind me of uk .. during the transitional years (if you could call it that) there were a lot of electric heated cars with steam pipe pass-thru .. and in some cases even an electric locomotive with no boiler but still carrying a steam pipe nevertheless 01:47:14 <sim-al2> The RDC setup is interesting, because it can actually use the steam to heat the car, as well as keep the engines and water tanks warm 01:47:32 <sim-al2> Useful for layover protection in cold weather 01:48:18 <drac_boy> of course there are always express-specific boxcars (or goods van in uk english) with steam pipes just so they could be placed behind locomotive rather than at the tail of train 01:50:34 <drac_boy> at least its a good thing they didn't try fit fish vans for 160kph operation hehe ;) 01:50:40 <drac_boy> (imagine the smell) 01:50:44 <sim-al2> Seems to be a fairly common feature of dedicated cars, espeically the various express cargo, RPOs, etc that used to be common here 01:51:01 <sim-al2> Oh yeah I imagine those smelled great.... 01:52:16 <sim-al2> It seems that the UK had short wheelbase wagons far longer than anywhere else 01:53:00 <sim-al2> That seems to have been the biggest speed restriction, beyond that fact that so many cars lacked automatic brakes... 01:55:45 <drac_boy> yeah 01:57:28 <drac_boy> btw as I recall the uk deltic also was tested with vacuum brakes and its major defect was rather apparent at the high speed braking attempts 01:57:47 <drac_boy> not too surprised with that 01:58:50 <sim-al2> Yeah, vaccum has more limited storage capacity, and requires larger cylinders and reservoirs 01:59:17 <sim-al2> It made sense with steam enginers as a steam-driven ejector has no moving parts and creates vaccum easily 01:59:38 <sim-al2> But with diesel and electric engines a seperate vaccum-pump is needed 01:59:56 <drac_boy> true. I think it was only during the excursion era that some steam locomotives did have air brake refitted in parallel 02:00:22 <drac_boy> (but maybe I am wrong, I only recall that the modern regulations for mainline running with certain carriers caused the air brake requirement) 02:00:41 <sim-al2> From what reading I've found, it seems that high capacity pumps were needed to charge and recharge vaccum-braked trains quickly 02:01:14 <sim-al2> I think almost all modern rolling stock is air-braked, with only older freight equipment in some countries still vaccum 02:01:32 <sim-al2> Even in the UK from the 60's onward the coaching stock is air-braked 02:01:53 <sim-al2> The Mk1s had vaccum and dual-braked versions IIRC 02:02:38 <drac_boy> btw not related to brakes but there was one very amusing "issue" with the early deltic runs ... train goes into long tunnel under throttle and cue the boiler shutting down ... apparently the engine literally globbed all the air around the roof at that time 02:03:17 <sim-al2> I think it's possible to build a vaccum brake system with equvialent performance to an air-brake system, even at high speeds, but the lower reservoir storage will become a problem with repeated applications and release 02:03:31 <drac_boy> hmm yep 02:04:09 <sim-al2> A lot of those UK diesels had air brakes on the engine itself, even if the train was setup with the vaccum system 02:04:46 <sim-al2> Since air pressure was needed for control anyway 02:05:11 <drac_boy> btw I didn't think I would find a photo of the book online but this is what I have on my shelf http://pictures.abebooks.com/isbn/9780711003224-us-300.jpg interesting thing re the driver waving at the photographer :) 02:05:24 <sim-al2> Yeah, I can see that the Delitics would draw very large amounts of air 02:05:28 <drac_boy> yeah air-engine/vacuum-train is something I think I have heard quite a number of times 02:08:13 <Flygon> Ahh, vacuum train :3 02:08:18 <Flygon> The pre-EMU MU solution! 02:08:21 <Flygon> Shame about the rats 02:08:54 <sim-al2> And the seals 02:09:22 <drac_boy> also I know there were some small railroads (usually narrow gauge, no surprise) through europe that eventually had these rare "brake conversion" wagons inserted between locomotive and the normal train .. even in one case the locomotive was electric but with vacuum brakes (probably didn't want to gimp with a historic locomotive) so the first wagon actually had a pumps setup that converted this into air for the several coaches 02:09:54 <sim-al2> Yeah, I've read that some of the UK 3rd rail railcars could do that 02:10:09 <sim-al2> Like the MLV (a motorized baggage car) 02:10:29 <sim-al2> Seems like a interesting setup to make work 02:13:39 <drac_boy> hmm well dunno if direct links works but sim-a12 about special wagons .. would you like this? http://www.railpictures.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/VIA691323Dec198971.jpg its basically a new-ish high speed diesel locomotive but with the older streamline steam heated wagons .. so cue the speciality built steam car which numbered to quite a few 02:13:55 <sim-al2> Oh looks like India still uses vaccum brakes on a large scale 02:13:59 <drac_boy> and yep thats why theres a lot of small smokes near the ground as thats the steam :p 02:14:05 <sim-al2> And South Africa 02:14:19 <sim-al2> oh wow, LRC 02:14:38 <sim-al2> I didn't know they used those with the older equipment 02:14:55 <drac_boy> and its not just the lrc .. these are much newer .. but still using steam eh?? http://www.michaeltaylor.ca/via/6401-via-80s-mt.jpg 02:15:06 <drac_boy> talk about finding a f40ph with no electric heat :P 02:15:23 <sim-al2> Heh, makes it quieter though 02:15:37 <drac_boy> well if its the pre-genset f40ph then you're correct 02:15:43 <sim-al2> I though the steam-heated cars were used with the ex-CN stuff until the end 02:15:57 <drac_boy> amtrak had the unofficial nickname of Screamer for them because the big v12 engine was noisy with longer trains at station platform 02:15:58 <sim-al2> Yeah, I think the gensets first appeared in the 90's 02:16:03 <sim-al2> v16 02:16:09 <drac_boy> oh .. right .. :) 02:16:38 <drac_boy> also as the generator was off the engine that limited the f40ph's consist length during cold weathers unless you doubleheaded them 02:16:54 <sim-al2> P40 and P42 actually do the same thing, but they are a lot quieter 02:17:35 <sim-al2> Yeah, power is diverted away from traction to power the cars, so the more cars, the lower the traction power... 02:17:44 <drac_boy> btw there is a certain short period of via trains that I like for some reason .. it was sorta the "just a few months after creation of via" so you could see very weird mixes 02:17:53 <sim-al2> And when it gets cold, even worse 02:19:06 <drac_boy> CP RS, CN F5B, VIA F7A, budd streamlined baggage then coach, blue VIA coach, etca 02:19:23 <sim-al2> wow 02:19:26 <drac_boy> basically anything in the passenger yard they "just throw it into the station platform to heck with it!" 02:19:40 <drac_boy> very crazy mixes they had for a short time especially the rare RS units 02:19:48 <sim-al2> Sounds like the Amtrak approach :p 02:20:02 <drac_boy> well for amtrak it was called "rainbow era" which was fitting enough 02:20:13 <sim-al2> Of course, I don;t think Amtrak ever had any Alcos 02:20:25 <drac_boy> anyway sim-a12 this was a lot of fun but I kinda should go to bed soon tho sorry? :) 02:20:32 <sim-al2> Ok gn 02:20:41 <drac_boy> hmm alco and amtrak..one sec.. 02:21:07 <sim-al2> Took Amtrak a long time to find a standard locomotivw with the F40PH 02:21:08 <drac_boy> http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/modelListRR.aspx?id=AMTK they indeed do have a handful of alcos :P 02:21:22 <sim-al2> Lots of interesting semi-failures 02:21:23 <drac_boy> two S2 too .. must had been for busy station shuntings 02:21:35 <drac_boy> anyway goodnight now .. talk again another time ;) 02:21:41 <sim-al2> night 02:21:44 *** drac_boy has left #openttd 02:25:56 *** Gja has quit IRC 02:35:00 *** sim-al2 is now known as Guest1127 02:35:01 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 02:41:02 *** Guest1127 has quit IRC 02:42:08 *** smoke_fumus has quit IRC 03:13:02 *** mikegrb has quit IRC 03:35:00 *** mikegrb has joined #openttd 03:42:50 *** Snail has quit IRC 04:50:23 *** ConductorCat has joined #openttd 05:54:04 *** Keridos has quit IRC 05:54:09 *** keoz has joined #openttd 05:59:25 *** Keridos has joined #openttd 06:11:39 *** Keridos has quit IRC 06:30:58 *** Keridos has joined #openttd 07:02:14 *** DaniDroid has joined #openttd 07:02:27 <DaniDroid> hola 07:03:04 *** DaniDroid has left #openttd 07:33:09 *** keoz has quit IRC 08:01:49 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 08:09:16 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 08:51:39 *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd 09:22:05 *** JacobD88 has quit IRC 09:46:43 *** DDR has quit IRC 09:47:26 *** DDR has joined #openttd 10:10:08 *** keoz has joined #openttd 11:50:42 *** Samu has joined #openttd 12:30:32 *** Snail has joined #openttd 12:42:06 <Samu> hi 12:49:31 *** Snail has quit IRC 13:14:58 <Samu> i just found something funny 13:15:32 <Samu> openttd listing in alphabetical order puts it like this: MogulAI, NoCAB, NoNoCAB 13:15:43 <Samu> neverming, i'm stupid 13:16:03 <Samu> lol, it's correct, it's M, not N 13:16:25 <Samu> NogulAI 13:16:29 <Samu> lel, i'm sorry 13:38:28 <Samu> I found a "not-really-a-bug" 13:39:07 <Samu> the finances window lists train, road, aircraft, ship in this order 13:39:22 <supermop> good morning 13:39:25 <Samu> but everywhere else the order is train, road, ship, aircraft 13:41:41 <Samu> game settings also got this switched 13:41:53 <Samu> train, road, aircraft, ship 13:42:24 <Samu> for breakdowns, and max no of vehicles 13:44:18 <Samu> is it worth "fixing"? 13:47:22 <supermop> probably not 13:47:49 *** Gja has joined #openttd 13:52:03 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 14:26:33 <Samu> just started testing the new versions of WmDOT and AIAI 14:28:04 <Samu> road vehicles AIAI v97, trains AIAI v97, aircraft AIAI v97, Original ships WmDOT v14, NPF ships WmDOT v14, YAPF ships WmDOT v14 14:28:28 <Samu> let's hope my system doesn't crash 14:41:49 *** smoke_fumus has joined #openttd 14:47:17 *** peter1138 has quit IRC 14:53:39 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 14:57:52 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 14:57:52 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 15:44:01 *** nulquen has joined #openttd 15:59:51 <argoneus> good afternoon train friends 16:37:59 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 16:42:24 <supermop> yo 17:03:12 *** glx has joined #openttd 17:03:12 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 17:04:07 *** keoz has quit IRC 17:07:55 <argoneus> I was always wondering 17:08:04 <argoneus> is there a particular reason openttd uses squirrel and not lua/python? 17:08:12 <argoneus> like, is there more to it than "preference" 17:13:38 <Rubidium> object oriented and relatively small 17:13:52 <Alberth> a working implementation helps too 17:15:59 *** ToBeFree has quit IRC 17:18:42 <argoneus> bleh ._ 17:18:43 <argoneus> . 17:25:23 <Rubidium> https://computerscomputing.wordpress.com/2013/02/18/lua-and-squirrel-the-case-for-squirrel/ 17:34:35 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 17:37:46 <Alberth> hola 17:39:11 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 17:39:16 <andythenorth> o/ 17:39:21 <frosch123> hoin 17:39:41 <Alberth> o/ 17:41:56 <andythenorth> cat 17:43:34 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 17:45:25 *** aard has joined #openttd 17:48:53 <Samu> why did i read that? 17:49:26 <Samu> whatever... what's a garbage collector? 17:49:30 <Alberth> something with curiosity being stronger than you? 17:51:00 <Alberth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garbage_collection_(computer_science) no pretty pictures, unfortunately 18:03:39 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 18:05:43 <supermop> yo andy 18:05:47 <supermop> how have you been 18:07:54 <andythenorth> yair 18:07:59 <andythenorth> all the thigns 18:08:09 <supermop> comprehensive 18:09:39 <Samu> well, uh... i give up trying to understand what's a garbage collector 18:10:01 <andythenorth> don’t they just sweep up dead objects? 18:10:04 <andythenorth> and free memory? 18:10:07 <Alberth> it's not a simple subject, I am afraid 18:10:09 * andythenorth never learnt 18:10:37 <andythenorth> surely it’s something like checking there are no inbound pointers to an allocated range 18:10:39 <andythenorth> or something 18:10:42 <Alberth> it is, but you must understand what a dead object is, then :) 18:10:45 * andythenorth never programmed 18:11:15 <Alberth> oh dear, who wrote all that Python code then? :o 18:11:29 <andythenorth> that’s not programming 18:11:34 <andythenorth> that’s devloloper 18:12:23 <Samu> i remember i was able to cause openttd to crash with tons of NoCABs and executing a sendmap to a player joining the game, and someone mentioned it was the garbage collector 18:12:34 <Samu> but it got lost 18:13:49 <Samu> i couldn't replicate the bug :( 18:13:54 <Samu> the crash 18:14:13 * andythenorth has never ever used a formal debugger 18:14:27 <andythenorth> more proof that is devloloper 18:14:54 <Samu> i was always a memory error 18:14:56 <Samu> it 18:15:46 <Rubidium> a garbage collector is really easy; imagine cleaning food and whenever you know you're not going to use the part of the food anymore throw it away. This is effectively manual "garbage" management. On the other hand, just keep cleaning stuff and once in a while pick out everything that you're not going to use anymore. This is like garbage collecting. With the former you always need to know whether you kee 18:15:52 <Rubidium> p using it, with the latter you do not. However, with the former you always know how much time there is between peeling two potatos whereas with garbage collection you do not. After all, you might not collect the garbage between peeling the two potatos, but occasionally you have to because the place becomes unwieldy and then the time between peeling those two potatos becomes really large 18:17:02 <Rubidium> ofcourse the intricacies are more complicated, but the general idea is really simple 18:18:41 *** ToBeFree has joined #openttd 18:20:47 * andythenorth should add garbage collectors to Road Hog 18:21:25 <Alberth> there is waste cargo? 18:21:25 <andythenorth> I like this one http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-indian-street-scene-with-rubbish-truck-taken-in-kolkatta-28274106.html 18:21:50 <Alberth> haha, camouflaged :p 18:22:00 <andythenorth> Ape! http://gcmouli.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/garbage2.jpg 18:22:12 <andythenorth> my three wheel truck is still broken 18:22:14 * andythenorth must fix 18:23:10 <Samu> what is common between lzma and garbage collector? 18:23:24 <Samu> an ai garbage collector 18:23:41 *** Arveen has joined #openttd 18:23:43 <Alberth> they can be executed by a cpu 18:23:45 <Samu> they don't like each other very seldomly 18:23:52 <Samu> and crash openttd server 18:24:57 <Samu> they run in paralel? 18:25:29 <Alberth> sounds possible at least 18:25:38 <Alberth> save is done in a different thread 18:26:11 <Alberth> maybe lzma isn't thread-safe? 18:26:17 * andythenorth could play MP game, or work on something like Road Hog 18:26:24 <andythenorth> or have dinner and go to sleep :P 18:26:34 <Alberth> all good options :p 18:27:02 <Alberth> MP game may be a bit late-ish, unless you have a ready map 18:27:24 <Samu> trying to remember... 18:27:40 <Alberth> @logs 18:27:40 <DorpsGek> Alberth: https://webster.openttdcoop.org/index.php?channel=openttd 18:27:46 <Alberth> Samu: ^ 18:28:16 <Samu> think it was a crash on "free", something related to freeing something from memory twice 18:28:36 <Samu> ok 18:29:21 <supermop> andythenorth: sv? 18:32:05 <Samu> hmm, crash would happen on ntdll i think 18:32:28 <andythenorth> supermop: I probably can’t give it enough attention tonight :) 18:32:38 <supermop> fair enough 18:32:44 <Alberth> ah, I remember seeing that here, and elsewhere, but ntdll is not part of openttd 18:32:51 <supermop> i am at work, so i probably shouldn't 18:33:16 <andythenorth> if we want to win that SV save, we need about 5 people playing 18:33:20 <andythenorth> otherwise not a chance :) 18:33:24 <supermop> haha 18:33:55 <supermop> that little valley is a pain to fit vehicle factories into 18:35:32 *** rjl has joined #openttd 18:36:25 <Samu> ah, free heap crash on ntdll 18:36:32 <Samu> what's a heap? 18:37:04 <Samu> https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/vstudio/en-US/4a6d6859-39a5-4c3a-b8f2-4692cc275113/access-violation-on-free-?forum=vcgeneral 18:37:08 <Samu> yeah, it was something liek this 18:37:52 <supermop> i want to play some kind of game where no factories are randomly on top of a 6000 ft uninhabited plateau 18:38:21 *** Progman has joined #openttd 18:38:26 <supermop> and all the carnegies have built their steel mills as far from ore and coal as possibel 18:38:28 <andythenorth> supermop: that’s the best place for them 18:39:16 <supermop> i probably want more of a cartoon urban monorail gif than a game 18:39:42 <supermop> off to see radioheadd and kendrick lamar this weekend 18:42:30 <Samu> RtlpLowFragHeapFree 18:43:40 <Samu> openttd was doing a free, then ntdll would crash on RtlpLowFragHeapFree i rememer 18:44:26 <Samu> sometimes it was lzma doing a free, sometimes it was an ai doing a free 18:44:37 <Samu> can they conflict with each other somehow? 18:45:08 <Milek7_> but free on what object? 18:46:09 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 18:47:30 <Samu> i don't know, can't recall 18:47:52 <Samu> it was during a big while loop 18:47:59 <Samu> not really sure 18:48:43 <Samu> can't remember about the lzma one 18:49:51 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 18:51:40 <Samu> AI was computing his stuff, and this giant loop was taking place when it crashed 18:52:13 <Samu> as for the lzma, it was happening concurrently at the same time as this loop 18:53:18 <Samu> map was being sent over the network 18:58:06 <andythenorth> supermop: would it be more fun to play on a relatively flat map? o_O 19:16:25 *** srhnsn has joined #openttd 19:19:19 <Milek7_> hm 19:19:37 <Milek7_> i wonder if there will be people who will want to play with ~15 daylength factor, so one game will be lasting around 3 weeks 19:23:10 *** peter1138 has joined #openttd 19:23:10 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o peter1138 19:28:55 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 19:29:04 <Wolf01> o/ 19:31:33 <supermop> andythenorth: IDK 19:31:52 <supermop> i never really try that but maybe 19:33:48 <Alberth> o/ 19:46:40 <Samu> would that increase the autoclean too? 19:46:44 <Samu> time 19:47:19 *** Arveen has quit IRC 19:53:42 <Milek7_> Samu: i think that with 240 companies there won't be need for autocleaning 19:58:16 <Samu> ah, i see 19:58:46 <Samu> you want to make openttd a bit more like an "open world" kind of game 20:02:46 <Samu> how many seconds would be 74*15 20:02:57 <Samu> or is it 72? i forgot 20:03:27 <supermop> what if towns were somehow responsive to cdist? 20:03:54 <supermop> like a town that become some major node, or better connected, will grow faster 20:04:05 <supermop> i wonder if a gs could do that 20:06:43 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 20:07:11 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 20:12:38 <Alberth> supermop: like all the citybuilder scripts? 20:13:14 <supermop> those don't really have any knowledge or care of how well connected a city is 20:13:47 <Alberth> afaik they do react to cargo deliveries 20:14:48 <supermop> a city isolated on a desert island but with a good tram service will grow better than one in the center of the map with a train station that happens to have connections to every other town in the region 20:14:59 <Alberth> ah 20:15:54 <Alberth> hmm, you cannot quite see origin of cargo 20:16:13 <supermop> Alberth: i mean to have growth depend not on total passenger numbers as much as either how well you can travel to other towns, or how many people flow through or change at the station 20:16:15 <Milek7_> GSStationList_CargoPlannedByFrom GSStationList_CargoPlannedByVia 20:16:28 <Alberth> maybe there are calls to look into cdist, originally for AIs, I think 20:16:49 <supermop> like, if we have large towns ABCD in corners of a square 20:16:57 <supermop> and tiny village x in the center 20:17:29 <supermop> most people living in A may want to go to B C or D for work or pleasure, 20:17:54 <supermop> but if they have to change trains at X, eventually a man will open a news stand there 20:17:58 <Milek7_> i'm working on something like that, but i lately don't have time for it 20:18:02 <Milek7_> https://gist.github.com/Milek7/2d25ff9f01f69f1dc73dfda43e50d4cc 20:18:08 <supermop> then another will open a bar 20:18:28 <supermop> and maybe the railway hires more people to work at the station, 20:18:38 <supermop> then they want to live nearby 20:18:52 <supermop> and over time X becomes a major city itself 20:20:32 <supermop> cdist might have 1000 people waiting to transfer at x from a A-C train to a B-D train, but they have no effect on growth as they do not get delivered there 20:21:59 <supermop> maybe a GS could simulate, "this area has large flows through it, this would be a desirable town to live or work in" and then trigger growth there 20:24:57 <supermop> or just "this town has a lot of capacity from it to other towns - commuters will live here" 20:28:05 <Milek7_> i doubt if google translated polish text is readable, but here are some ideas: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=pl&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=pl&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fopenttd-polska.pl%2FThread-Inne-Projekt-skrypt-New-World-Disorder&edit-text=&act=url 20:28:42 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 20:31:04 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 20:31:07 <Milek7_> and if somebody wants to test script: http://openttd-polska.pl/attachment.php?aid=838 20:31:19 <Milek7_> currently requires FIRS 20:35:06 *** Alberth has left #openttd 20:39:26 *** Progman has quit IRC 20:40:20 <supermop> its currently usable as a gS? 20:45:39 <Milek7_> yes 20:45:46 <Milek7_> but very early stage 20:47:28 <supermop> looks interesting 20:47:42 <supermop> assume there is not .en translation? 20:48:01 <supermop> the translation of the thread is readable 20:52:06 <Milek7_> script have english lang file (it is only 7 words currently, so no much to translate ;p) 20:55:40 <supermop> what folder do i save a gs into? 20:57:25 <supermop> ok looks good so far 20:57:46 <supermop> architecture 05? 20:57:51 <supermop> 0%? 21:00:02 <Milek7_> delivery of building materials (BDMT) into town 21:00:18 <Milek7_> in future this will be customizable, currently it is hardcoded into config.nut 21:05:17 <supermop> ok 21:09:23 *** aard has quit IRC 21:23:16 <Samu> what goes in the head of openttd main devs when they review patches? 21:25:41 <Samu> do i have to go to #openttd.dev? 21:26:07 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 21:31:57 *** THERetroGamerNY has joined #openttd 21:42:46 <_dp_> Samu, http://blueballfixed.ytmnd.com/ 21:45:22 <Samu> what is that 21:48:14 <FLHerne> Ooh, that thing! 21:49:12 *** sim-al2 is now known as Guest1213 21:49:12 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 21:49:16 <FLHerne> Samu: It's a system to process small pixelated blue balls 21:55:11 *** Guest1213 has quit IRC 21:55:29 <Samu> what happens to the patches on flyspray? 21:55:45 <Samu> or those in the forum 22:00:54 <_dp_> Every year on April 1 devs randomly select one patch, apply it and release new version 22:04:16 <FLHerne> And every year on April 2nd, I ritually grumble about the ever-growing list of trivial, well-tested, beneficial patches that weren't applied 22:10:57 <Samu> is that true? only 1 patch? :( 22:13:19 *** srhnsn has quit IRC 22:18:11 <Samu> what about bug patches :( i posted some of those, but it's been months and nothing happened t.t 22:18:14 <_dp_> well, on leap years it's two... 22:24:57 <Samu> well i got some stuff dealt with, :o 22:25:10 <Samu> but not recently 22:25:32 <Samu> actually, i'm wrong 22:25:37 *** gelignite has quit IRC 22:26:01 <Samu> someone fixed a canal crash very recently 22:26:10 <Samu> but there's more stuff out there :( 22:31:47 <Samu> remko bijker fixed most of my reports 22:32:18 <supermop> Milek7_: it seems the labels for inner city and intercity transit are reversed 22:32:40 <Samu> let me count, lel 22:33:44 <Samu> Alberth (Alberth) - fs#3816 22:33:58 <Samu> Alberth (Alberth) - fs#3798 22:34:02 <Samu> oops wrong 22:34:16 <Samu> Remko Bijker (Rubidium) - fs#3798 22:34:46 <Samu> Remko Bijker (Rubidium) - fs#3819 22:36:09 <Samu> Remko Bijker (Rubidium) - fs#4109 not fixed 22:36:44 <Samu> Remko Bijker (Rubidium) - fs#4222 22:37:16 <Samu> Remko Bijker (Rubidium) - fs#4223 22:38:17 <Samu> frosch (frosch) - fs#4224 I'm surprised this one got implemented 22:42:35 <Samu> Jean-Francois Claeys (Belugas) - fs#4231 the first time I tried to help at fixing something, i think i remember this episode 22:43:59 <Samu> Remko Bijker (Rubidium) - fs#4247 duplicate, but fixed 22:45:11 <Samu> Loïc GUILLOUX (glx) - fs#4251 22:45:45 *** THERetroGamerNY has quit IRC 22:46:21 <Samu> frosch (frosch) - fs#5523 22:46:30 <glx> wow old 22:47:14 <Samu> Remko Bijker (Rubidium) - fs#5524 22:50:15 <Samu> Remko Bijker (Rubidium) - fs#5531 not fixed 22:52:10 <Samu> Remko Bijker (Rubidium) - fs#5539 heh turns out it was adobe flash, not openttd, nor external library 22:53:02 *** supermop has quit IRC 22:53:58 <Samu> frosch (frosch) - fs#5541 22:55:00 *** Snail has joined #openttd 22:55:21 <Samu> frosch (frosch) - fs#5566 duplicate, but fixed 22:58:56 *** Extrems` has joined #openttd 22:59:36 <Samu> Remko Bijker (Rubidium) - fs#5568 I remember this one, crashing without generating the crash files, nice job getting it fixed. 23:00:30 *** Extrems has quit IRC 23:00:35 *** Extrems` is now known as Extrems 23:10:40 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 23:10:53 <Wolf01> 'night 23:10:55 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 23:13:50 <Samu> Remko Bijker (Rubidium) - fs#5571 fixed, then reverted, then re-fixed again :) 23:14:54 <Samu> frosch (frosch) - fs#5594 not a bug, t.t 23:18:20 <Samu> Remko Bijker (Rubidium) - fs#6000 duplicate, but fixed 23:19:53 <Samu> Remko Bijker (Rubidium) - fs#6001 23:21:18 <Samu> frosch (frosch) - fs#6002 unreproduceable, but fixed 23:21:53 <goodger> uhh 23:22:53 <Samu> Remko Bijker (Rubidium) - fs#6003 23:23:58 <Samu> Remko Bijker (Rubidium) - fs#6013 23:24:46 <Samu> Remko Bijker (Rubidium) - fs#6015 23:27:26 <Samu> frosch (frosch) - fs#6209 bug in AMD GE, i no longer use it. At least AMD recognized it and no longer ships it with their drivers. 23:28:36 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 23:29:52 <Samu> frosch (frosch) - fs#6215 false report, heh... sorry about that 23:33:20 <Samu> frosch (frosch) - fs#6254 23:35:42 <Samu> frosch (frosch) - fs#6264 23:36:31 <Samu> Alberth (Alberth) - fs#6268 23:38:22 <Samu> Alberth (Alberth) - fs#6271 - not fixed 23:38:59 <Samu> frosch (frosch) - fs#6461 23:39:34 <Samu> frosch (frosch) - fs#6511 23:39:43 <Samu> and I'm done 23:46:30 *** Smedles_ has quit IRC 23:50:20 <Samu> fixed-not_fixed ratio: Alberth 2-1 / Rubidium 13-3 / frosch 8-4 / Belugas 1-0 / glx 1-0 23:50:40 <Samu> Rubidium wins as the most fixer of my reports :p lol 23:50:59 <Samu> i'm pretty bored 23:51:04 <Samu> as you can see 23:57:14 <Samu> cyas all goodnight 23:57:17 *** Samu has quit IRC