Log for #openttd on 7th October 2016:
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00:46:08  <Samu> @calc 3 * 30 * 74 / (15 - 1)
00:46:08  <DorpsGek> Samu: 475.714285714
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10:59:59  <Wolf01> Moin
11:08:51  <Wolf01> I'm going mad trying to building a working Walschaerts valve... with lego
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11:51:29  <argoneus> good morning train friends
11:57:28  <Wolf01> o/
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12:01:01  <Samu_> hi
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12:27:46  <Samu_> c->months_of_bankruptcy--;
12:28:00  <Samu_> c->months_of_bankruptcy = c->months_of_bankruptcy - 1;
12:28:05  <Samu_> is that the same?
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12:31:51  <Samu_> i think i'm not doing an afterload conversion
12:33:06  <Samu_> something tells me it's not needed
12:37:33  <Samu_> loading an old save of a company with bankrupt data doesn't know how it was triggered
12:37:52  <goodger> Samu_: yes
12:39:11  <Samu_> but i still got a problem
12:39:37  <Samu_> i'm only counting to 9 now, not 10
12:40:16  <Samu_> if the save got c->months_of_bankruptcy == 8, next month it will bankrupt
12:40:45  <Samu_> while with the original code, it would only bankrupt in 2 months
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12:42:33  <Samu_> I wonder... do I really want to reduce the count to 9
12:42:47  <Samu_> or keep it unchanged
12:42:51  <Samu_> count to 10
12:46:46  <Samu_> even if I count to 10, sometimes I gain a month, sometimes I don't, in comparison to the original code
12:47:20  <Samu_> okay, I think I got a tough decision
12:47:30  <Samu_> will keep the count to 10
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12:50:20  <Samu_> no save conversion needed that way
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13:29:00  <Samu_> ST2: hi. I decided against the delay we talked about yesterday
13:30:19  <Samu_> ST2: but i still wonder what would be the impact of this change in a real game with human companies competing
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14:50:17  <Samu_> who's an accountant here?
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15:19:22  <goodger> Samu: I did an A-level in accounting and it seemed to help when I was doing my company's accounts, if that helps
15:19:32  <goodger> what's the question?
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15:25:05  <Samu> question is about what happens first in the real world
15:25:30  <Alberth> everything!
15:25:50  <Milek7_> trying to use real world concepts in openttd is bad idea
15:26:02  <Samu> gah, i need to look at yesterday's log, I asked it yesterday
15:26:06  <Samu> brb
15:27:10  <Samu>
15:27:57  <Samu> the question is when to include inflation when doing calculations at the start of a month
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15:28:10  <Wolf01> Samu, don't make OTTD too much realistic, there's already andy for that
15:28:29  <Alberth> :O andy is realistic?
15:28:58  <Alberth> o/ btw
15:29:01  <Samu> currently openttd is subtracting money from infrastructure costs before applying inflation
15:29:06  <Wolf01> o/
15:29:10  <Eddi|zuHause> anybody want to buy a transrapid?
15:29:38  <Samu> then inflation takes place, and only then loan interest and "other" category are subtracted from the company's money
15:29:58  <Samu> I think inflation is in a strange place
15:30:08  <Samu> should be either the first or the last
15:30:37  <Samu> infrastructure costs evades inflation adjustments
15:30:41  <Samu> the others don't
15:31:50  <Milek7_> i always play without inflation
15:34:08  <goodger> Eddi|zuHause: is that the lethal transrapid, or one of the others (if applicable)?
15:34:39  <Eddi|zuHause> one of the others, i suppose
15:36:51  <Eddi|zuHause> the damaged one they probably scrapped already
15:39:14  <Wolf01> I think I should leave apart lego and start assembling a real steam engine, it's too much work to make it with plastic which is not so reliable in terms of rigidity
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15:39:44  <Eddi|zuHause> real steam engine requires lots of paperwork, i'm afraid
15:40:05  <Alberth> depending on size and pressure :)
15:40:31  <Eddi|zuHause> assuming it should be operational, and able to use actual rail tracks :p
15:41:41  <Alberth> it may be easier to join a group where they try to keep old steam engines running
15:41:49  <Samu> Alberth: about yesterday discussion, i also figured it still makes more sense to have bankruptcy check before applying infrastructure costs
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15:42:35  <Samu> because loan interst and "other" subtractions are already being done after bankruptcy checks
15:42:44  <Samu> only infrastructure costs are not
15:42:58  <Alberth> and infrastructure costs are not costs?
15:43:09  <Alberth> ie you don't have to pay those?
15:43:45  <Samu> it is like this: infra costs > check bankruptcy > pay interest + other
15:43:51  <Alberth> but doing an additional check before is fine, my argumentation is mostly against removing the existing check
15:43:54  <Samu> check bankruptcy is in a bad place
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15:44:13  <Wolf01> Eddi, just 0/S/H0 scale
15:44:30  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds fiddly
15:44:34  <Alberth> Samu: doing it later is fine too
15:45:30  <Alberth> but yesterday you moved it to an earlier place rather than a later place
15:46:11  <Eddi|zuHause> for the record: i strongly agree about moving the check
15:46:27  <Alberth> to where?
15:46:47  <Eddi|zuHause> to before the infrastructure is paid
15:47:00  <Eddi|zuHause> also, all the other daily/monthly costs
15:47:12  <Samu> what about inflation adjustments? when do they happen?
15:47:15  <Eddi|zuHause> if you're positive at the end of the quarter, you should be fine
15:49:09  <Wolf01> Eddi, something like this
15:49:25  <Samu> original code order: infra costs > check bankruptcy > inflation + price adjustments > pay interest + other
15:50:25  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: but even that size steam engine should require some paperwork, so it doesn't blow up in your face
15:51:14  <Samu> my proposition order 1: check bankruptcy > infra costs > pay interest + other > inflation + price adjustments
15:51:33  <Samu> my proposition order 2: check bankruptcy > inflation + price adjustments > infra costs > pay interest + other
15:52:50  <Alberth> Eddi: that seems like a fair price to keep Wolf in one piece
15:55:27  <Samu> what would be an accountant's saying on this :o
15:55:33  <Samu> goodger:
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16:44:27  <andythenorth> quak
16:52:16  <Alberth> quek
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16:59:37  * andythenorth should draw this small engine
16:59:41  <andythenorth> for something
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17:04:07  <Samu> what do i do about inflation? nobody answered t.t
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17:08:47  <Wolf01> Quak
17:10:27  <Samu> i'm gonna put inflation at the end
17:10:42  <Samu> does someone oppose ?
17:10:46  <Samu> i'm kinda alone on this
17:11:48  <Wolf01> Do it, if somebody else likes it he could compile with your patch
17:12:06  <andythenorth> Samu:
17:12:21  * andythenorth uses irc as the teddy bear
17:12:36  <andythenorth> the actual answers don’t matter, just forming the question
17:12:38  <Alberth> diesel train set :)
17:12:52  <andythenorth> Iron Horse south america
17:13:03  <andythenorth> which was started but not finished :P
17:13:07  <andythenorth> ho
17:13:16  <andythenorth> maybe I should drop the country idea, and match the rosters to climates
17:13:23  <andythenorth> IH temperate
17:14:14  <Wolf01> NRT! (I can't do it because no pc :( it's still hospitalized)
17:14:15  <Alberth> Iron Chilean
17:16:00  <Wolf01> Iron Chicken
17:20:35  <frosch123> moin
17:25:03  <Samu> hmm
17:25:16  <Samu> screw my logic
17:26:48  <Samu> EXPENSES_LOAN_INT, EXPENSES_OTHER, EXPENSES_PROPERTY are not affected by inflation
17:26:59  <Samu> i should have known this...
17:27:46  <Samu> sorry all
17:31:06  <Samu> i feel like a total idiot now :(
17:32:54  <Samu> with that said, this patch is still valid
17:33:01  <Samu> no changes needed
17:34:49  <Samu> teddy bear programming that's because sometimes no one says a thing
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18:08:43  <Alberth> usually it's because you don't actually expect feedback, it's just talking to yourself to figure something out
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18:28:38  * andythenorth ponders
18:36:22  <goodger> Samu: not one of those is a reasonable simulation of real-world financial dealings, so the question is kind of meaningless
18:37:33  <Samu> doesn't matter now goodger, sorry
18:38:16  <Samu> I was wrong all this time
18:55:22  <V453000> Omg andythenorth pondering
18:55:27  <V453000> Mayhem imminent
18:55:53  <V453000> Optimizing compile times by 0.3s in progress? :P
18:56:32  <andythenorth> that’s an idea
18:56:44  * andythenorth was pondering watching trainz videos on youtube
18:56:51  <andythenorth> youtube irritates me
18:56:55  <andythenorth> that’s standard, right?
18:57:36  <Wolf01> Yes, standard
18:57:38  <V453000> XD depends on your personified google search tm
18:58:11  <V453000> Youtube doesnt even dare suggest busslshit to me anymore
18:58:28  <V453000> -s +l :D
18:58:50  <andythenorth> I try to never be logged into YT
18:58:53  <andythenorth> hard…because google
18:59:19  <Samu> woah, ggg cared not to implement this into the core game
18:59:26  <andythenorth> it recommends me endless ‘epic fail’ videos, because I like watching ‘epic win’ videos
18:59:34  <andythenorth> but I fucking hate epic fail stuff, it’s not funny
18:59:47  <Samu> they saved poe hc, good job ggg
19:00:00  <andythenorth> also it recommends me fuckloads of boat, car and truck crash videos
19:00:03  <andythenorth> where people actually die
19:00:08  <andythenorth> really not wanted
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19:27:18  <Wolf01> Andy, seen the latest lego ideas set?
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19:31:12  <andythenorth> fishing house thing?
19:31:23  <Wolf01> Uup
19:31:27  <Wolf01> Yup
19:31:51  <andythenorth> I am just on Eurobricks
19:32:05  <andythenorth> looks nice, but I have enough Lego :)
19:32:12  <Wolf01> I would have liked Johnny5
19:32:27  <andythenorth> Still Alive
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20:41:20  <Samu> hmm, there's either a bug with the forum or my browser ....
20:42:45  <Samu> when i select text inside [code] [/code] and then right click, I get a is not responding error and crashes the tab
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20:45:37  <Samu> - that green text
20:45:50  <Samu> the config he posted, can't copy it out
20:47:45  <Wolf01> Absolutely no problem with Edge
20:48:15  <Samu> i'm using Edge :(
20:49:34  <Wolf01> Do you have extensions installed?
20:49:55  <Wolf01> Like pocket or whatever
20:50:02  <Samu> strange, only seems to crash when i select some text, but not other
20:50:10  <Wolf01> Lol
20:50:24  <Samu> i guess some extension is crashing me the browser
20:51:05  <Samu> select his ip address in connect to ip, that's where i first tried to copy
20:55:01  <Samu> how do I disable the phone number thing from the browser? I don't have a phone, this is a PC
20:55:20  <ST2> use Firefox?!
20:55:22  <ST2> xD
20:55:35  <Wolf01> Skype maybe
20:55:55  <Samu> i don't have skype, I think, let me check
20:56:11  <Wolf01> Browsers don't have the phone numbers thing by themselves
20:56:50  <Wolf01> It's usually a Skype extension
20:57:15  <Wolf01> Click to call iirc
21:06:10  <Samu> i got the skype preview, just uninstalled it, was that it?
21:06:53  <Wolf01> I think not, I have it too
21:07:40  <Wolf01> Try in the add/remove programs
21:08:28  <Wolf01> Look for anything which contains click to call
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21:15:38  <Samu> so much stuff that windows shares that I don't even use
21:15:52  <Samu> windows apps, I only use 1
21:15:59  <Samu> the email
21:16:25  <Samu> i have no idea what they mean with sharing my email with other apps, meh... i guess i shouldn't bother
21:17:03  <Wolf01> O_o
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21:18:26  <Wolf01> Uninstalled too much
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21:18:43  <Samu> microsoft edge is an app? ... lel
21:18:54  <Samu> microsoft terminology
21:18:56  <Wolf01> Yes it is
21:19:36  <Wolf01> You still have Internet Explorer buried somewhere if you need it
21:20:14  <Wolf01> But Edge is a UWP app
21:20:54  <Milek7_> win10 is unusable
21:21:10  <Wolf01> Bah
21:21:23  <Samu> it's stable
21:21:35  <Milek7_> good joke :)
21:21:37  <Samu> i had more trouble with windows 7
21:21:48  <Samu> while everyone liked windows 7
21:21:53  <ST2> Samu: don't say that close to a bunch of Linux users ^^
21:22:02  <Samu> ah, sorry
21:22:37  <Milek7_> one day it suddenly stopped recognizing any usb devices, even keyboard
21:23:22  <Milek7_> and even on virtual machine it was so slow and unstable that i installed windows 7 back
21:23:37  <Wolf01> Strange problems can always happen also with other OSes
21:23:46  <Samu> windows 7 virtual machine sucked on my amd
21:23:52  <Samu> but not on intel
21:24:04  <Wolf01> Lol, Windows 10 slow...
21:24:13  <Samu> didn't try a virtual machine on windows 10 yet
21:25:45  <Samu> i had to install some obscure amd provided patch to have virtual machine to actually boot
21:25:55  <Samu> but then it was kinda sluggish
21:26:39  <Samu> and i couldn't use too much virtual memory
21:26:53  <Samu> think i could only use 512 mb
21:27:42  <Samu> windows 7 was not prepared for bulldozer :(
21:27:47  <Milek7_> 1gb is even too little for win xp
21:28:20  <Samu> virtual ram, that is
21:31:06  <Samu> there was some thread affinity issues with some blizzard games, like starcraft 2
21:31:43  <Samu> after insisting with blizzard so much, they finally had a look at it
21:32:16  <Samu> by the time they fixed it, I was already on windows 10, so... meh
21:32:21  <Samu> too late blizzard
21:33:39  <Samu> windows was core parking some bulldozer cores that sc2 was trying to use, resulting in horrid performance drops
21:33:53  <Samu> windows 7*
21:35:26  <Samu> they answered something like they done it like that for compatibility issues with older hyper-threaded core i7's
21:35:31  <Samu> but would take a look
21:37:47  <Milek7_> sad that many games uses directx
21:41:29  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:26:36  <sim-al2> It work(ed)
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