Log for #openttd on 29th October 2016:
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08:08:38  <Alberth> o/
08:25:44  <andythenorth> lo
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08:55:30  <Ethereal_Whisper> I jammed up one of my ML's lanes because I de-electrified my network and thought I had gotten rid of all the electric locos
08:55:33  <Ethereal_Whisper> I guess not lol
08:56:39  <Alberth> good way to find them :p
09:03:03  * andythenorth should Hog
09:03:05  <andythenorth> maybe later
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09:20:17  <Wolf01> o/
09:20:57  <Alberth> o/
09:25:35  <andythenorth> NotWaterTypes
09:25:44  <andythenorth> then can have hover-craft only routes
09:25:56  * andythenorth biab :P
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09:26:12  <Wolf01> Throws the stone and quit
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10:03:37  <Wolf01> Ho! Now that I've seen it better, Apple removed all the function keys... how is possible to live without all the function keys?
10:04:16  <Alberth> My only use of function keys is f1 for pausing openttd
10:04:56  <Alberth> which I agree should be a real key for a keyboard
10:05:09  <Wolf01> F5 to refresh a page?
10:05:35  <Alberth> hmm, google chrome may need that
10:05:42  <Alberth> but normally never use that
10:06:00  <Wolf01> F5/F8/F9 to quick save/reload in games?
10:06:17  <Alberth> it is?
10:06:22  <Wolf01> Usually
10:06:40  <Wolf01> F10 to open Starcraft menu
10:06:42  <Alberth> I play only a few games
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10:07:41  <Alberth> ever used scroll lock?
10:07:58  <Alberth> hmm, I also seem to have a "pause/break" key, no idea what's that for
10:08:17  <Alberth> "insert" seems useless too, to me
10:08:17  <Wolf01> Scroll lock is used in Excel iirc
10:08:39  <Alberth> oh
10:08:59  <Alberth> just type ctrl+s  ?
10:09:22  <Wolf01> Yes, it is used in excel, you scroll the sheet or move through cells
10:09:23  <Alberth> standard code for it
10:09:36  <Wolf01> Ctrl+s?
10:09:48  <Alberth> hmm, maybe not, it's suspend input, iirc
10:10:03  <Alberth> which does have the same effect in a terminal :)
10:13:30  <Wolf01> The only useless keys I have are most of the 18 macro keys on my keyboard... because I don't remember which function I assigned to them
10:14:51  <Alberth> :)
10:18:27  <Wolf01> I want one of those keyboards with lcd macro keys
10:18:59  <Wolf01> Oh, that's not even all, I can switch between 3 profiles, so I have 54 macro keys
10:19:52  <Wolf01> Also every software could have it's own keys, infinite possibilities
10:20:54  <Alberth> what kind of macros do you have under a key?
10:22:04  <Wolf01> Every kind of stuff you can even imagine
10:22:30  <Wolf01> From "run a software" to "write an entire poem typing random keys"
10:23:37  <Alberth> ah, small script-like things, where I'd write a bash or python script for in $HOME/bin
10:24:08  <Wolf01> omg... new Windows Paint3D
10:24:49  <Alberth> makes sense
10:25:06  <Alberth> not sure it's of any use though
10:25:21  <Alberth> but people will find applications for it :)
10:27:01  <Alberth> bleh, one morning wasted on trying to merge a long patch queue with new master changes
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10:38:12  <Youbi> Hello! I built OpenTTD from source (r27669), and when I save the game, openttd crashes. Should I report it as a bug?
10:41:29  <Alberth> where does it crash?
10:42:10  <Alberth> did you configure it correctly?
10:42:59  <Youbi> I think so. I just disabled lzo2 which is used to load old savegames.
10:44:06  <Youbi> It crashes when I click on “Save”
10:44:38  <Alberth> I mean, in what function, at what line?  ie a readable stack trace
10:44:55  <Alberth> "Save" runs a few zillions lines of code
10:45:27  <Youbi> Yep I ran strace, does it produce a correct stack trace?
10:45:47  <Alberth> strace does system call tracing
10:46:26  <Alberth> I mean use a debugger like gdb, trigger the crash, and get a stack of functions that are called at that time
10:46:59  <Alberth> you do need a debug build, to get readable symbols, at least at Linux
10:47:25  <Alberth> no patches applied?
10:48:30  <Alberth> alternatively, get a core dump when it crashes, and analyze that in a debugger or crash-analyzer or whatever you have
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10:56:34  <Wolf01> Quak
10:57:16  <Alberth> o/
10:57:21  <frosch123> moi
10:57:23  <Alberth> afk
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11:03:19  <Youbi> Alberth: ok I will try gdb :)
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11:20:42  <argoneus> good morning train friends
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12:11:53  <Wolf01> I need to decide how much headache I want today
12:13:36  <Alberth> dilemma :)
12:22:20  <Wolf01> Scene state machine: I can register a scene only once in the SceneManager and retrieve it by type, to move to another scene I need to set it as "active", then do SceneManager::Next(), which looks for the next active scene, deactivate the current one, loads the new one and unloads the current one
12:22:27  <Wolf01> Does it make sense?
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12:23:31  <Alberth> why not give the new active scene to the SceneManager directly?
12:23:56  <Alberth> "I want this one"  :)
12:24:28  <Wolf01> I could do ::Next(typeof(NewScene))
12:24:43  <Wolf01> But not already active, or I'll have 2 running loops
12:25:20  <Alberth> what I mean is "which looks for the next active scene" is a bit weird if you already found it
12:26:19  <Wolf01> Because I might have something to do before ::Next(), like an easing
12:26:31  <Wolf01> And at the end of the easing it does ::Next()
12:27:03  <Wolf01> I could set the type in a private variable and pass it to ::Next() at that time
12:27:24  <Wolf01> So the SceneManager doesn't need to look for it
12:28:22  <Alberth> would clarify who should decide the next scene, I think
12:29:24  <Alberth> as well as avoiding double work
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12:30:23  <Wolf01> The current scene decides where it wants to go, think about a menu
12:30:48  <Wolf01> The SceneManager moves, updates, loads, unloads, pauses...
12:30:56  <Alberth> you can have multiple exits from a single scene
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12:31:13  <Wolf01> Yes
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12:31:20  <Alberth> you have an "active_scene" pointer-ish variable in the scene manager?
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12:31:38  <Alberth> that would eliminate the possibility to have 2 running scenese
12:31:42  <Alberth> hi hi andy
12:31:42  <Wolf01> Not at the moment, but I'm considering it to do it
12:31:44  <Wolf01> o/
12:35:27  <Wolf01> As it is now, it is able to run all the active scenes in the Update() loop
12:36:10  <Wolf01> This to allow to load modal scenes (like a menu)
12:36:51  <Wolf01> While keeping the underlying scenes paused but not unloades
12:42:08  <Wolf01> I could create linked lists for easings, so I will have curScene -> easingScene -> otherScene, instead of having the easing inside the scene
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12:42:41  <Alberth> makes scene management more complicated
12:43:05  <Wolf01> Not really
12:43:15  <Alberth> or you get a lot of the same-ish easingScenes, perhaps?
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12:43:46  <Alberth> actually, you can do the above split now too
12:44:08  <Wolf01> Yes, like EntranceFromLeftEasing, EntranceFromRightEasing, DarkenEasing...
12:44:10  <Alberth> you just get more scenes
12:44:39  <Alberth> doesn't need a linked list
12:45:55  <Wolf01> LinkedList has AddAfter()/AddBefore() methods
12:47:31  <Wolf01> They might be useful
12:50:37  <andythenorth>
12:50:43  <andythenorth> ^ not happy with that
12:50:51  <andythenorth> it’s RH, but copied from somewhere, maybe FISH
12:50:56  <andythenorth> doesn’t set good buy costs
12:52:17  <andythenorth> notably pax trams are coming out relatively cheap compared to buses
12:52:22  <andythenorth> on per passenger basis
12:52:36  <Wolf01> Now I'm undecided about the parameters type :E ::GetScene(Type scene) -> .GetScene(typeof(MyScene)) or ::GetScene<T>() -> .GetScene<MyScene>()
12:53:40  <andythenorth> that formula looks like it might have been Iron Horse, where engines don’t have capacity, mostly
12:53:57  <Wolf01> andythenorth, add consist_capacity_points to buy_cost?
12:54:00  <Alberth> Wolf01: you have 1 scene of each type?
12:54:10  <Wolf01> Yes, I said that before
12:54:24  <andythenorth> Wolf01: seems easiest eh?
12:55:31  <Alberth> I don't see the advantage of having a type, tbh, but ymmv
12:55:38  <Wolf01> Just make both properties the same, one with base_buy_cost and the other with base_running_cost
12:56:03  <Wolf01> The type is the key of the dictionary
12:56:43  <Alberth> ...
12:57:01  <Alberth> ie why is there a dictionary?
12:57:18  <Wolf01> To hold the registered scenes
12:57:46  <Alberth> andythenorth:  maybe dump the values of the various sub-parts for the various vehicles, to get an impression of their values?
12:57:58  <Wolf01> I register all the scenes at game initialization
12:58:15  <andythenorth> Alberth: possibly, I am trying first just putting capacity in :)
12:58:24  <andythenorth> might be a big enough hammer for this nail
12:58:35  <Alberth> how do you look for a new scene?  using the same dictionary?
12:58:54  <Alberth> maybe the dictionary is at the wrong place?
12:59:02  <Alberth> and you need a scene storage or so?
12:59:02  <Wolf01> There isn't a "new" scene, you can only pick one of the other inactive scenes
12:59:26  <Alberth> ok how do you find one of the other inactive scenes?
12:59:34  <Wolf01> By it's type
13:00:13  <Wolf01> Dictionary [Type, instance]
13:00:15  <Alberth> so you don't actually have a scene, only a type, ie <T> is still a type
13:00:34  <Wolf01> As lists/arrays only allow int indexes
13:00:46  <andythenorth> ha ha, one pax tram now costs more than high speed electric engine in Iron Horse
13:00:48  <Wolf01> And I don't want to look up for the index
13:00:55  <Alberth> it's weird to name it a type, as 'type' implies you have more than one of them :)
13:01:40  <Wolf01> Dictionary [MyScene, instance_of_MyScene], [MenuScene, instance_of_MenuScene] and so on
13:01:41  <Alberth> well, just pick the simplest solution, we discussed it long enough without getting anywhere
13:02:01  <andythenorth> code something, delete later
13:02:02  <andythenorth> :)
13:02:08  * andythenorth may not be helping
13:02:23  <Alberth> a shitload of singletons :)
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13:02:36  <andythenorth> 140 pax tram has more power than 400 pax metro
13:02:44  <andythenorth> but metros don’t go up long hills...
13:03:00  <andythenorth> consistency across sets :P
13:03:17  <Alberth> 140 pax tram has more room for the engine :p
13:03:35  <Wolf01> Yes, I have single instance scenes
13:03:54  <andythenorth> can you just access them by name? o_O
13:03:57  <Wolf01> I don't see the point of having multiple instances of the same exact scene
13:04:00  * andythenorth has no context
13:04:15  * andythenorth logs
13:04:17  <Wolf01> Yes, the Type *is* the name
13:05:38  * andythenorth will stay out of it :)
13:06:23  <Wolf01> Even the UWP page manager works like that, but they use typeof(class) instead of <T>
13:07:15  <Wolf01> But for component services I use <T> and I would like to mantain the same for scenes too
13:08:32  <Wolf01> It's just moving the typeof() inside the method instead of passing it as parameter
13:08:42  <andythenorth> why don’t you want to look up the index?
13:08:47  <andythenorth> other than that always seems clunky?
13:08:56  <andythenorth> I suspect the performance hit is negligible
13:09:02  <Wolf01> Because I already know the name
13:10:11  <andythenorth> so no ‘for i in array, if == the_name, return i’ stuff
13:10:16  <Alberth> I think a lot of confusion arises from the word 'Type', rather than 'name'
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13:10:40  <Wolf01> Type is the class name
13:10:53  <Wolf01> I don't need other names, one class = one scene
13:11:05  <Alberth> no, Type is the class, normally
13:11:14  <Alberth> ie  "Object"  vs Object
13:11:31  <Wolf01> Not in C#
13:11:41  <Alberth> I would really hope it is
13:11:42  <andythenorth> afaict, this is the same shaped problem as I have in newgrf
13:11:54  <andythenorth> I frequently have to look up vehicle objects, or industry objects or whatever
13:11:57  <Alberth> or you can't have strings with a name of a class in it :)
13:11:57  <andythenorth> in lists or dicts
13:13:07  <andythenorth> do they have to be kept in an array or similar for ordering?
13:13:22  <andythenorth> or could you just fetch them with scenes.scene_1, scenes.scene_2 or so
13:13:28  <Wolf01> If you need to check if x is an instance of Class you do "x.GetType() == typeof(Class)", if you need to check if x is instance of a more generic type, like object or interface, you do "x is object/interface£
13:14:05  * andythenorth looks up some c#
13:15:08  <andythenorth> Wolf01: got a paste? :)
13:15:15  <andythenorth> I have no idea if I can help, just curious
13:15:23  <andythenorth> also avoiding eating my greens on Road Hog
13:15:33  <Wolf01> Even with subclassing, if you have class MyClass : BaseClass, you do x is BaseClass, because the type is MyClass
13:15:56  <Alberth> How is a class not a type?
13:16:24  <Alberth> ah well, nvm, please go ahead
13:16:47  <Alberth> too much headache for me :)
13:17:12  <andythenorth> this will be like one of those programming pickles where the smoke clears and all is obvious
13:17:18  * andythenorth has been there before
13:18:22  <Alberth> Type looks smelly to me, as a class is not a type, which is weird to say the least
13:18:39  <Wolf01>
13:20:16  <Wolf01> Ok, in the first one I could cast it inside the method
13:22:11  <Wolf01> No, it doesn't cast with variables, only with T
13:22:49  <Alberth> compile-time generic, I guess
13:22:54  <Wolf01> Yes
13:24:39  <andythenorth> ach, RH buy costs seem to work now
13:24:53  * andythenorth guessed an arbitrary adjustment, all is well
13:25:47  <andythenorth> now I am going to automate vehicle weight, based on capacity
13:25:58  * andythenorth has frameworked away most vehicle choices :P
13:26:09  <andythenorth> but hopefully the set still feels varied and interesting
13:26:45  <andythenorth> global rules for cost, capacity, weight, speed, power, and also automated cargo sprites
13:26:51  <andythenorth> but eh, it looks nice
13:28:44  <Wolf01> Oops, I made an error, public object(Type scene)... or cast inside return (Scene)_scenes[scene], but still likited to BaseClass/Interface
13:29:24  <Wolf01> With T is less verbose
13:29:50  <Wolf01> (I could keep both eh)
13:33:31  <andythenorth> ach, automating weight is tricky, as there are varying number of vehicles in consists
13:35:20  <andythenorth> hmm, no, weight is only on lead unit of consist anyway
13:35:26  <andythenorth> handy
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14:10:49  <Wolf01> Alberth:
14:13:19  <Alberth> it's like Java generics
14:13:57  <Alberth> but my problem is mostly why a class is not a type :)
14:14:58  <Alberth> maybe they do weird stuff with generics or templates or so
14:15:51  <Wolf01> You still need to do typeof(T), its just to be able to pass the class as parameter instead of the type of the class
14:17:14  <Alberth> it's typeof() that confuses me
14:17:35  <Alberth> in Python:  class X: ....     f(X): return X()    just works
14:18:02  <Wolf01> It's reflection, MyClass != typeof(MyClass), even if typeof(MyClass) is MyClass
14:18:06  <Alberth> X is the class, and the type as well
14:20:11  <Eddi|zuHause> wtf are you doing?
14:20:11  <andythenorth> python seems rarely to be a useful routemap in other languages :P
14:20:38  <Alberth> yeah, well, other languages are often needlessly complicated :p
14:21:11  <Alberth> no doubt they have a reason for it, I just don't see it
14:21:38  <Alberth> reflection doesn't convince me of the need of a new object
14:22:23  <Wolf01> _sceneManager.GetScene(MenuScene); <- throws a "MenuScene is a type, which is not valid in the given context", I need to do _sceneManager.GetScene(typeof(MenuScene));
14:22:24  <Alberth> ie what information does the class not have?
14:22:58  <Alberth> Wolf01: yeah, I get that, it just makes no sense from a C# language design point of view
14:23:11  <Wolf01> Like pointers in c++
14:23:20  <Alberth> for some reason, they threw the simple solution out of the language
14:23:41  <andythenorth> livestock is a low density cargo in TTD?  Seems to have very low weight
14:24:02  <Alberth> can't stack them :p
14:24:05  <Wolf01> Cram more cows in the car then :D
14:25:43  <Wolf01> Maybe they were meaning chickens and there isn't anything about cow transport, it's just our fantasy
14:26:23  <andythenorth> ho ho
14:26:27  <andythenorth> sheep
14:26:32  <andythenorth> probably don’t weigh much
14:26:35  <andythenorth> wool is very light, no?
14:26:39  <andythenorth> weighs less per ton
14:26:44  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe they had a syntax/semantics conflict when calling <function>(<type>) so they needed a <function>(typeof(<type>)) to resolve it?
14:26:59  <Wolf01> Maybe
14:27:05  <Wolf01> I don't know the background
14:28:00  <Wolf01> Maybe all even started with the introduction of generics
14:29:59  <Eddi|zuHause> what exactly is a "generic"?
14:30:56  <Wolf01> As you can't cast with a variable, you can't be able to cast with (typeof(Class))var or with (x.GetType())var for sure or with Type x => (x)var
14:31:08  <Alberth> in java, it's code that ignores the parameterized class, eg "List" doesn't touch the values it stores
14:31:10  <Wolf01> Generic is a typeless parameter
14:31:37  <Alberth> in C# it's handled better, the type parameter is preserved
14:32:12  <andythenorth> anyone want to translate Road Hog?
14:32:14  <andythenorth> it’s kind of 1.0
14:32:18  <Alberth> and you can do things like generic over different type parameters
14:32:27  * andythenorth will tag it if nobody wants me to wait for translation
14:32:27  <Alberth> strings changed?
14:32:34  <andythenorth> not iirc
14:33:12  <Alberth> Road Hog                   Done!                     43                     0                     0                     0                     0  <-- NL_nl is done
14:33:21  <Wolf01> Tag and then do a translation tag if it's required
14:33:23  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe announce it in the forum that you tag it next week, and call for translators?
14:33:24  <andythenorth> yup
14:33:31  <andythenorth> or what Eddi|zuHause said
14:33:37  <andythenorth> dunno, I want it off my plate
14:33:41  <andythenorth> 1.0.1: translations
14:33:43  <Eddi|zuHause> tag it as 1.0RC1
14:33:48  <Wolf01> ^
14:34:36  <andythenorth> I could do something about the docs as well
14:34:44  <andythenorth> releasing 1.0 with actually broken docs is kind of rubbish
14:34:45  <andythenorth>
14:35:32  <Wolf01> Wide range of ship types and capacities ?
14:35:39  <Wolf01> *ship*
14:35:44  <andythenorth> yup
14:35:50  <andythenorth> isn’t it good :P
14:35:54  <andythenorth> I’ll fix those
14:35:59  <Alberth> from 0 to infinity :)
14:35:59  <Wolf01> Copied from FISH I suppose
14:36:43  <Alberth> name it not-fish :)
14:37:07  <andythenorth> ha
14:37:10  * andythenorth will fix
14:38:12  <Wolf01> A friend asked for a the Flintstones based grf for OTTD
14:39:02  <Eddi|zuHause> can't, there are no BC(E) dates.
14:39:42  <Wolf01> They didn't even knew what you are talking about
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14:40:00  <Wolf01> Like if Roman empire used BC dates
14:40:36  <Eddi|zuHause> sure, they gave dates in "we founded this city 753 years before this christ guy gets born"
14:40:57  <Wolf01> Without any doubt
14:43:11  <Wolf01> Btw, he's not happy with horse driven carriages in 1850
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15:27:57  <andythenorth> err
15:28:03  <andythenorth> this has been bugging me for a while
15:28:14  <andythenorth> vehicles that feature improved / worse cargo decay rates
15:28:19  <andythenorth> player has no way of knowing
15:28:32  <andythenorth> I know, because I’m the newgrf author :P
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15:28:44  <Wolf01> Write a changelist?
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15:29:08  <andythenorth> it’s in the docs here
15:29:23  <andythenorth> but who reads docs? :D
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15:29:41  <Wolf01> Then why care
15:30:17  <Wolf01> Btw, that's not a changelist
15:30:39  <Wolf01> That's a list of vehicles introduced by grf
15:31:15  <Wolf01> Changelist is Was: x; Now is: y
15:31:18  <andythenorth> might be talking at cross-purposes :)
15:31:32  <andythenorth> I mean when the cargo decay rate is adjusted for some vehicles, in game
15:31:49  <andythenorth> like refrigerated trucks, cargo pays more per tile than non-refrigerated
15:32:17  <andythenorth> should buy menu tell?
15:32:22  <andythenorth> does player need to know?
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15:32:40  <Wolf01> Write it in the buy menu, like on engines "Suitable for express passengers" "Hauls heavy freight"
15:34:45  <Alberth> Suitable for frozen cargo
15:34:59  <andythenorth> ‘Improved payment”?
15:35:08  <andythenorth> dunno if players understand payment rates to be honest
15:35:56  <Alberth> nah, just mention intended use, payment is bonus :)
15:36:04  <Alberth> or reward, rather :)
15:36:55  <Alberth> although 'reefer' already implies frozen stuff, doesn't it?
15:36:59  <andythenorth> yeah
15:37:06  <andythenorth> that’s why I never bothered putting this in :)
15:37:26  <Alberth> I had to look up the word :)
15:37:29  <andythenorth> player probably has no concept of payment rate algorithm
15:37:37  <andythenorth> ‘reefer’ should maybe be ‘refrigerated'
15:37:42  <andythenorth> owing to drug reference :P
15:38:15  <Alberth> Suitable for frozen cargo  <-- that seems clear enough to me
15:38:45  <Alberth> reefer implies you know about wagon types
15:41:16  <Alberth> "use for stuff that should stay cold"  :p
15:43:19  <Wolf01> "allow foot to not rot so it will be pais more"
15:43:23  <Wolf01> *food
15:43:32  <Wolf01> *paid
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15:53:29  <andythenorth> docs: done?
15:55:58  <Wolf01> Looks ok
15:57:49  <Alberth> vehicle properties look a bit techy
15:58:08  <andythenorth> “Special features: [Improved Payment], [Improved Loading Speed]”
15:58:10  <andythenorth> in buy menu?
15:59:06  <Eddi|zuHause> sure
15:59:25  <Alberth> Loading Speed Multiplier: 2 <- faster loading;  Cargo Decay Rate: 0.5 <-- slower cargo decay
15:59:46  <Alberth> would be nice to add it to the buy menu too
16:00:03  <Eddi|zuHause> in CETS i have it so that the additional information looks just like the normal properties
16:00:16  <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. it mimics the formatting
16:00:44  <Alberth> list vehicles could be broken into smaller segments for readability, but otherwise, all seems fine
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16:05:31  <andythenorth> Alberth: I wondered that
16:05:44  <andythenorth> I could sort by sub-class like Code Reference
16:05:47  <andythenorth> or by tram / truck
16:05:59  <Alberth> or by year
16:06:26  <Alberth> but mostly it needs some subsection headings, I think
16:06:33  <andythenorth> oh is it sorted lexical on name currently?
16:06:35  * andythenorth looks
16:06:43  <Alberth> date, I think
16:06:56  <Alberth> which is useful, imho
16:07:15  <Alberth> also +1 for mentioning start and end date :)
16:07:39  <andythenorth> hmm
16:07:52  <Alberth> could move properties after the name    name (properties)
16:07:54  <andythenorth> a PIL script could open the vehicle png, crop out the buy menu image, and show it in the list
16:07:59  <andythenorth> or even as a css sprite :P
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16:08:16  <andythenorth> nice project for $someone :)
16:08:45  <Alberth> sounds like a great addition indeed
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16:11:34  <andythenorth> “Improved Payment” or “Payment Bonus"
16:11:41  *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC
16:12:44  <Alberth> former, imho
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16:13:08  <Alberth> although I would use a lower case 'p'
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16:25:20  <andythenorth> ‘Improved payent’, or ‘Improved cargo payment’?
16:25:36  <andythenorth> payment / payent /s
16:31:46  <andythenorth> Alberth:
16:32:13  <andythenorth> not sure how to group though
16:32:36  * andythenorth experiments with images
16:40:03  <Alberth> split between tram and truck?
16:40:42  * andythenorth tries it
16:47:29  <andythenorth> stuff like this
16:47:30  <andythenorth> (consist.roadveh_flag_tram) if vehicle_type is 'Tram' else (not consist.roadveh_flag_tram)
16:47:42  <andythenorth> obviously those parentheses are spurious :P
16:47:50  <andythenorth> but also that’s bonkers anyway
16:49:59  <andythenorth> Alberth:
16:50:19  <andythenorth> my local version shows the sprites, but the paths are wrong on bundles :)
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16:55:42  <Alberth> if you want to go further, you might want to add the cargoes
16:56:01  <Alberth> on the other hand, that information makes much more sense in the game?
16:56:03  <andythenorth> yeah
16:56:10  <andythenorth> the docs aren’t exhaustive
16:56:17  <andythenorth> also cargos are subject to loaded industry grf
16:56:18  <andythenorth> or so
16:56:42  <Alberth> buses could be pulled out from the trucks, but that's only a few
16:57:15  <Alberth> and people using RH aren't doing that for extensive pax options :)
16:58:53  <andythenorth>
16:58:54  <andythenorth> with pictures
16:59:10  <andythenorth> 1MB of images for such small results :)
16:59:13  <andythenorth> I need to crop them
17:00:01  <Alberth> dark blue makes it difficult to see as well
17:00:26  <andythenorth> if I’m processing them, that can be knocked out
17:00:31  <andythenorth> also 2x zoom? o_O
17:00:40  <Alberth> sounds nice
17:00:59  <andythenorth> this will take a little thought :)
17:01:07  <Wolf01> Too bad for the blue
17:04:26  <Alberth> pil doesn't have a scale 2x operation?
17:04:36  <Alberth> *pillow
17:05:08  <andythenorth> think it will
17:05:18  <andythenorth> and turn off anti-aliasing
17:05:20  <andythenorth> should be fine
17:05:26  <andythenorth> otherwise pixa has a trick to do it
17:05:33  <andythenorth> bit slow though
17:05:50  <Alberth> pixa trick truck
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17:17:29  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: needs transparent blue
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17:30:13  <andythenorth> +1
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17:34:26  <andythenorth> no blue
17:34:53  <andythenorth> now looks a bit odd to have vehicle cropped but no bounding box
17:35:28  <frosch123> did you consider adding icons to the purchase list
17:35:33  <frosch123> to indicate the "class"
17:35:54  <frosch123> "fast loading" and "improved payment"
17:36:06  <frosch123> ">>" and "$" or something
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17:37:14  <Wolf01> <frosch123> ">>" and "$" or something <- faster and expensive?
17:37:20  <Wolf01> :D
17:37:39  <frosch123> expensive for customer :)
17:37:48  <andythenorth> frosch123: interesting idea
17:37:55  <andythenorth> I have been -1 to icons in buy menu crap
17:38:01  <andythenorth> due to ‘flags’ shenanigans
17:38:04  <andythenorth> but it could work
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17:42:47  * andythenorth fixes retina screen shenanigans
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17:50:19  <andythenorth> 1999 called and wants my html back :P
17:51:08  <andythenorth>
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17:57:28  <andythenorth> Alberth: o_O ^
17:59:41  <Alberth> first 2 are weird
17:59:54  <Alberth> script made a glitch?
18:00:30  <andythenorth> what’s weird about them? :)
18:00:35  <andythenorth> might just be the sprites...
18:03:51  <Eddi|zuHause> i think that's a zoom step too much
18:05:46  <Wolf01> No, they are just weird vehicles
18:06:16  <Wolf01>
18:14:00  <Wolf01> Bah, I have instances referenced by something and I'm not able to dispose them...
18:15:30  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean in general, not just those two
18:16:19  <Wolf01> But with one zoom step less you can't see the details ;)
18:16:36  <andythenorth> with one less it’s just tiny
18:16:47  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: how big are they for you (pixels)
18:16:56  * andythenorth wonders if the 50% reduction fails in some browsers
18:17:12  <Wolf01> Stupid code analisys, didn't told me I have to make a class disposable
18:17:34  <frosch123> their height is 3x the font
18:17:35  <Eddi|zuHause> about 3 times the size as the text next to them
18:17:50  <andythenorth> yeah that’s about righ
18:17:51  <andythenorth> right *
18:18:07  <Eddi|zuHause> i think it's too big.
18:18:14  <Eddi|zuHause> and too pixel-y
18:18:49  <andythenorth>
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18:26:10  <andythenorth> better Eddi|zuHause ^ ?
18:28:05  <Wolf01> Remove the vertical align on tables
18:29:01  <andythenorth> needs vertical center
18:29:17  <Wolf01> Just remove vertical align on td
18:29:30  <Wolf01> It's set at top
18:30:51  <andythenorth> bootstrap :P
18:31:00  * andythenorth does the lazy way
18:31:03  <andythenorth> inline style
18:31:23  <Wolf01> Stupid boostrap
18:31:26  <Wolf01> *boot.
18:31:50  <andythenorth> nah, it’s good, you just have to keep it in a box
18:32:15  <andythenorth> usually I recompile it with stuff turned off
18:32:17  <andythenorth> but not here
18:32:19  <Wolf01> Also you miss sorting icons in table header
18:32:25  <andythenorth> yeah
18:32:27  <andythenorth> they suck eh?
18:32:46  <andythenorth> slow bundles is slow :(
18:33:42  <Wolf01> Eddi|zuHause, did you look at vehicles lists of Transport Fever?
18:33:49  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: no
18:34:05  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: yes, better
18:34:07  <Wolf01>
18:34:21  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: vertical center might help, yes
18:34:30  <Wolf01> Trains and RVs are the same of Train Fever
18:35:41  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, could really have used some more
18:36:33  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm debating whether to order it right now
18:36:46  <Wolf01> I hoped for sea transport, but I think they only made river ones
18:37:05  <andythenorth> NotRiverTypes
18:37:31  <Wolf01> NotSeaOnMaps
18:37:59  <Eddi|zuHause> river makes more sense, imho
18:38:58  <Wolf01> It's a more finished TrainFever, just as happened with Planetary Annihilation... instead of patching it they released a new paid version
18:39:12  <andythenorth> is it good?
18:39:56  <Wolf01> Trani/Transport fever? Yes, it's good, some weird limitations and bugs but I enjoy to play it
18:42:22  <Wolf01> It even have working traffic on roads, you need to make dedicated lanes for buses or you'll get stuck in traffic in 1980+
18:44:13  <Wolf01> I hope for intersections on rails, you can't make a X crossing in Train Fever
18:55:00  <Wolf01> Track building allows for effortless construction of compact and complex track fields. For example it is possible to build tracks which can cross each other, have transfer points over multiple tracks and also double-slip switches! Details about these features may be discussed in one of the upcoming developer blogs.
18:55:12  <Wolf01> Tunnels and bridges offer the same possibilities as regular tracks. They can contain the same switches and signals, as well as cross each other.
18:55:14  <Wolf01> Nice
18:56:40  <andythenorth> ach and now JS
18:56:46  * andythenorth is doing all the things for docs
18:58:07  <andythenorth> gah how do I pop from an array in JS :P
18:58:12  <andythenorth> at a random location
19:00:56  <Wolf01> What do you need to do?
19:03:39  <Wolf01> Ha! There are lego bricks factories on Transport Fever... I'll buy it with no doubt
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19:10:16  <andythenorth> is it acceptable to hate javascript?
19:10:20  <andythenorth> or is that childish?
19:16:06  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: they made a video on track construction, it looks promising
19:16:35  <Wolf01> At least there isn't the double bridge glitch anymore
19:16:48  <Eddi|zuHause> you can also make crossing bridges and stuff
19:17:07  <Wolf01> It was a PITA to build a double track bridge/tunnel
19:17:11  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
19:18:11  <Eddi|zuHause> what i'm afraid they did not adress is building crossing-free junctions by starting with a bridge, and then building the ramps
19:18:45  <Eddi|zuHause> but it might still be less fiddly with the overall track building improvements
19:20:00  <andythenorth> half my life I’ve been writing javascript
19:20:00  <andythenorth> and I’m still inept :P
19:20:06  <andythenorth> embarassingly so
19:23:27  * andythenorth can’t get into Jenkins to kick Road Hog
19:23:27  <andythenorth>
19:23:34  <andythenorth> I have a user, but creds don’t work
19:23:55  <frosch123> what needs kicking?
19:24:36  <andythenorth> it’s ok, I can see it unauthed
19:24:46  * andythenorth was looking for the failure
19:24:47  <andythenorth> got it
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19:38:23  <andythenorth>
19:38:36  <andythenorth> images are random, and link to the vehicle, FWIW
19:40:52  <frosch123> images are random?
19:41:08  <andythenorth> the 3 large banner images
19:41:16  <frosch123> oh, those
19:41:17  <andythenorth> unless my javascript is broken
19:41:21  <frosch123> so, same as firs :)
19:41:32  <andythenorth> yup
19:41:42  <frosch123> they change when reloading
19:41:53  <andythenorth> yup
19:42:00  * andythenorth has been hitting refresh for 90 seconds :P
19:42:30  <andythenorth> I might 1.0.0 this
19:45:57  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: page is much nicer now
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19:46:57  <frosch123> oh, "bin/openttd" does not start f, even when in the f folder
19:47:58  <andythenorth> is f OpenTTD 2?
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19:48:20  <frosch123> it copied most of the bugs, so probably
19:48:51  <Wolf01> Nice andy :)
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19:54:59  <andythenorth> 1.0.0 done
19:55:05  <andythenorth> needs a screenshot :P
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20:01:20  <V453000> F?
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20:02:41  <andythenorth> pfff
20:03:04  <frosch123> what else should i do after that anti-climatic wcs
20:05:29  <frosch123> V453000: so, when do we get shared orders or routes or something? :p
20:06:03  <frosch123> hmm, i remember i had a mod for shared orders last time
20:06:04  <Wolf01> I installed the tree growth mod, I already got trees over everything
20:06:51  <Wolf01> Also the IonCannon and a lot of Bob's stuff
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20:09:00  <Wolf01> Btw, if you have 2 inserters taking from a factory, how do you prioritize one? I tried connecting them with a  cable but if the master one is idle because the output is full, the slave one is deactivated
20:09:50  <frosch123> i usually use a fast and a slow inserter
20:09:51  <andythenorth> is this image blurry for the rest of you?
20:10:02  <V453000> frosch123: I am rooting for it. :D need to buy rseding or hanziq nuff beer
20:10:15  <V453000> andythenorth: y
20:11:16  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it's weirdly scaled
20:11:52  <andythenorth> annoying
20:11:53  <andythenorth> dunno why
20:12:30  <andythenorth> I cba to make proper buy menu screenshots tonight :P
20:12:42  <andythenorth> if anyone wants to step in, feel free :)
20:13:23  <Eddi|zuHause> anyone excited for additional hour tonight?
20:13:39  <Wolf01> \o/
20:13:56  <andythenorth> oh dear
20:13:58  <andythenorth> it’s that day
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20:14:17  <Wolf01> You have one more hour to do screenshots
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20:14:29  <andythenorth> kids will be up at horrible o-clock
20:14:33  <andythenorth> going by the clock :P
20:15:11  <V453000> oh
20:15:16  <V453000> fuck that day
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20:17:59  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm so bored...
20:18:06  <Eddi|zuHause> i even started minecraft...
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20:18:10  <andythenorth> make Road Hog screenshot
20:18:13  <Eddi|zuHause> but found nothing useful to do...
20:18:14  <andythenorth> play OpenTTD
20:18:28  <andythenorth> I watch a lot of minecraft, but have no inclination to play
20:18:50  <Eddi|zuHause> i found six diamonds...
20:19:13  <andythenorth> I have been setting my 6 year old redstone challenges
20:19:20  <andythenorth> so far he has built:
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20:19:31  <andythenorth> - a thing that loads a sheep into a minecart
20:19:37  <andythenorth> - a musical instrument playing a simple tune
20:19:43  <andythenorth> - an automated slaughterhous
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20:20:05  <andythenorth> - a crude series AND gate
20:20:20  <andythenorth> the slaughterhouse was possibly the best :P
20:20:24  <Eddi|zuHause> i have a redstone-less slaughter house. two dogs that hit any cow/pig that i mark with my bare hands
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20:21:32  <andythenorth> maybe everyone builds one
20:21:33  <Eddi|zuHause> but my sandstone-house looks ugly, my map room is too small and i can't be bothered to move to a bigger one, and i also can't be bothered to look for mods
20:21:43  <andythenorth> try a casual game :P
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20:22:06  <andythenorth> the dragon farming games are surprisingly addictive, for 20 mins every day
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20:50:55  <andythenorth> hmm
20:50:56  <andythenorth> what now :P
20:52:07  <Wolf01> Do you want to make my map editor work?
20:53:40  <andythenorth> is it flash?
20:53:42  <andythenorth> :P
20:53:45  <Wolf01> Nah
20:53:55  <andythenorth> I made a map editor once
20:53:58  <andythenorth> it used graph paper
20:54:06  <andythenorth> and then we copied the co-ordinates
20:54:07  <andythenorth> :P
20:54:25  <Wolf01> I need to make it for the user
20:54:28  <andythenorth> oic
20:54:33  <andythenorth> also for you
20:55:02  <Wolf01> Also for me to not get mad with bundled levels
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20:57:27  <Wolf01> I would like to bundle the game with at least 20 levels to play
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20:58:19  <Wolf01> With 2 boss levels and different gameplay ones
20:59:19  <andythenorth> 20 diverse levels is challenging :)
20:59:21  <andythenorth> to make
21:01:02  <Wolf01> I made at least 30 maps for starcraft, I could manage to make 20 levels
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21:02:09  <Wolf01> I also made the Wings of Liberty campaign for starcraft when starcraft 2 wasn't even in the minds of the developers
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21:02:35  <Wolf01> When I played it "wtf, this is my campaign!"
21:03:45  <frosch123> so you are paying your lego with the money you sued from them?
21:03:52  <frosch123> now all makes sense
21:03:58  <Wolf01> Eh...
21:04:21  <Wolf01> I can't sue them for a thing made with their stuff :D
21:04:58  *** jackyf has quit IRC
21:05:16  <Wolf01> It's like suing lego because they started producing your moc
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21:28:28  <andythenorth> bed
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22:51:39  <Wolf01> 'night
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