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Log for #openttd on 19th November 2016:
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00:13:19  <goodger> do angry birds qualify as a cargo
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00:47:59  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think there's a slingshot vehicle type in this game
00:50:28  <NGC3982> Not even a gravity one?
00:51:55  <Eddi|zuHause> unlikely
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01:18:26  <goodger> I ask because iirc it's finland's top export
01:23:55  <Eddi|zuHause> that used to be nokia phones
01:25:54  <goodger> I too remember 2006
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03:30:00  <supermop__> this beliner weisse is the sourest weiss ive ever had
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07:34:31  <andythenorth> o/
07:49:17  <Alberth> moin
07:50:49  <Alberth> found nice arctic cargoes?
07:52:02  <andythenorth> not yet
07:52:14  <andythenorth> the flow looks about right http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#arctic_basic
07:52:21  <andythenorth> I am 85% done maybe
07:52:28  <andythenorth> I don’t like the furniture factory much
07:52:47  <andythenorth> (for gameplay - I like the sprites just fine :) )
07:53:32  <andythenorth> only one source of goods also
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07:55:17  <Alberth> oh, you ship the paper out
07:56:40  <andythenorth> yes
07:56:53  <andythenorth> paper coils are visually nice
07:57:30  <Alberth> indeed, just like steel coils :)
07:57:58  <Alberth> baseset has printing works for goods
07:58:51  <Alberth> but general store has already 3 sources, maybe this is enough?
07:59:11  <andythenorth> probably
07:59:21  <andythenorth> there’s room for one more cargo if it’s useful
07:59:26  * andythenorth considered furniture
07:59:36  <Alberth> it's there :)
08:00:02  <Alberth> bakery could be, but that'd be food too
08:00:51  <Alberth> hmm, maybe fish oil?
08:01:08  * andythenorth explores that
08:01:27  <andythenorth> fish -> fertiliser is legit
08:01:33  <andythenorth> but quite a lot of fertiliser already :)
08:02:20  <Alberth> at the end of the day, grain and fish can only go to food, probably
08:02:43  <Alberth> yeah, you don't need more exotic fertilizer/chemicals, imho
08:03:12  <Alberth> you seem to be lacking another goods source
08:03:43  <Alberth> although I am not sure if that's really a problem
08:04:06  <Alberth> having a more food-centric economy may be nice too
08:05:53  <andythenorth> the tropic basic one is quite heavy on food
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08:09:48  <Alberth> ah, having two is a bit too much :)
08:10:54  <andythenorth> there is lots of potential for mineral cargos
08:11:07  <andythenorth> gold, silver, uranium, copper, cobalt, etc
08:11:19  <andythenorth> but I don’t think they add anything here
08:11:57  <Alberth> maybe a simple oil chain? (oilwell -> refinery -> goods)
08:12:19  <andythenorth> maybe
08:12:26  <Alberth> although it is so standard :(
08:12:29  <andythenorth> yeah
08:12:39  <andythenorth> that’s why I’m not so keen
08:12:40  <andythenorth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_tar is…interesting
08:13:36  <Alberth> maybe use methane gas? (cooking/heating)
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08:15:04  <Alberth> wood preservation    sounds like goods :)
08:15:59  <andythenorth> methane gas would be a legit input to the fertiliser plant also
08:16:05  <andythenorth> but gas goes by pipeline? o_O
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08:28:24  <Alberth> hmm, right, that would not work :)
08:28:29  <Alberth> maybe by ship :p
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08:38:17  <andythenorth> we need a new transport type for pipes :)
08:38:20  <andythenorth> nvm
08:38:57  <Eddi|zuHause> NPT!
08:41:04  <andythenorth> I think it was done already
08:41:14  <andythenorth> but we called it ‘factorio’
08:41:40  <andythenorth> “pipes don’t fit the TTD game model” said all those people now addicted to factorio :P
08:41:59  <Eddi|zuHause> who ever said that?
08:42:13  <andythenorth> nobody I’m trolling :)
08:42:44  <Alberth> I may have said that, but then again, I am not addicted to factorio :p
08:43:36  <Eddi|zuHause> the general consensus on pipes always was "$someone should do it, but properly"
08:45:20  * andythenorth biab
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08:46:21  <Alberth> always nice if a patch queue messes itself up :p
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09:13:11  <andythenorth_> Potatoes
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09:28:27  <andythenorth_> Peat
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09:30:13  <andythenorth_> Maybe all cargos could begin with P
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09:47:40  <Alberth> Poil, Pwood  :)
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10:57:59  <Alberth> can we have tram in the scenario editor?
11:04:53  <andythenorth> peat -> power station, no integration with other chains
11:04:58  <andythenorth> not very interesting eh :P
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11:07:46  <Alberth> quite
11:08:16  <Alberth> I really like that you added coal to the steel factories, it's so much more interesting to do anything with coal
11:08:38  <V453000> factorio style
11:08:45  <V453000> smelt shit with fuel
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11:13:16  <andythenorth> wood -> tar kiln -> medicine factory
11:20:45  <Alberth> definitely new :)
11:20:56  <andythenorth> probably quite low quantities :)
11:21:09  <andythenorth> there’s no need to add more to this economy, I just find the furniture chain boring :P
11:33:10  <Alberth> ah, I like all wood related chains fun to play :)
11:39:53  <andythenorth> for realism, I should split wood (for sawing) and pulwood (for mashing)
11:40:00  <andythenorth> but eh, it doesn’t add anything afaict
11:40:27  <andythenorth> pulp wood can go by hopper car and such
11:40:31  <andythenorth> is about all
11:41:40  <andythenorth> wood chips?  -> paper, fuel http://www.toucherdubois.ca/tdb/collection/original/41-51-1-40-97D.jpg
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13:36:30  <andythenorth> need a name for economy with big vehicles chain in it
13:37:03  <andythenorth> ‘inspired by’ Ruhr / Rhine in Europe, Great Lakes in USA / Canada
13:37:12  <andythenorth> lots of metal bashing
13:38:19  <V453000> SIZE MATTERS
13:39:32  <andythenorth> not bad
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13:43:43  <andythenorth> RUBBER HITS THE ROAD
13:43:47  <andythenorth> HEAVY METAL
13:44:19  <andythenorth> RUST BELT
13:44:35  <andythenorth> PEDAL TO THE METAL
13:44:44  <andythenorth> WHEELS OF STEEL
13:45:01  <andythenorth> EVERYTHING IS BETTER IN CAPS
13:45:12  <Alberth> YAY!
13:45:51  <Alberth> MadMax  :p
13:45:59  <Alberth> or MaxMad :p
13:46:44  <Alberth> Rolin' thunder
13:48:26  <Eddi|zuHause> call it BAD FEATURE
13:48:38  <Eddi|zuHause> GLOBAL WARMING
13:48:49  <Eddi|zuHause> SMOG COUNTRY
13:48:57  <Alberth> Add Oil chains too !
13:49:11  <Alberth> Green house
13:50:37  <andythenorth> ROLLING THUNDER
13:51:19  <Alberth> No trains allowed
13:55:07  <andythenorth> bit militaristic, rolling thunder
13:55:18  <andythenorth> being the name of the US bombing campaign in Vietnam :P
13:56:30  <Alberth> Max to the Max!
13:56:33  <andythenorth> Thunder Road!
13:56:55  <Alberth> would work :)
13:57:20  <andythenorth> name of a Bruce Springsteen song I bought last week :P
13:57:45  <andythenorth> also a filn
13:57:47  <andythenorth> film *
13:58:31  <Alberth> likely used already indeed :)
13:59:29  <andythenorth> also this mad max game I had as a kid http://www.geekyhobbies.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Thunder-Road-Remove-Cars.jpg
14:00:14  <andythenorth> https://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic903665.png
14:01:54  <Alberth> :)
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16:25:06  <Jinassi> Good evening, I'm a bit rusty regarding comandeering a server. What do I have to do to (re)start a server with new config values? Already tried with "reload_cfg" no luck.
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17:06:15  <Sylf> Jinassi, stop the server, THEN edit the config, then start the server again.
17:08:10  <V453000> Sylf: 0.1.5 on bananas <3
17:08:20  <Sylf> k.
17:09:08  <Sylf> I forgot to update the changelog.  Bleh.
17:09:14  <V453000> I did :)
17:09:54  <Sylf> cool
17:09:55  <Sylf> thanks
17:12:06  <V453000> my thanks :)
17:18:47  <Jinassi> Sometning so blatantly obvious, that I tell other people to do, when fiddling config, yet I fail miserably at my own doing. Thank you @Sylf!
17:22:57  <V453000> :)
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18:47:45  <andythenorth> o/
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18:49:09  <Alberth> o/
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19:06:16  * andythenorth plans heavy industry economy
19:06:22  <andythenorth> detailed metals chain
19:07:05  <andythenorth> iron ore + coke + limestone -> blast furnace -> pig iron
19:07:22  <andythenorth> pig iron + manganese + nickel -> steel mill -> metal
19:07:28  <Jinassi> For what industry set anythenorth?
19:07:33  <andythenorth> then vehicles and machines and stuff
19:07:36  <andythenorth> FIRS innit
19:07:42  * Jinassi drools
19:08:01  <andythenorth> but do I do equal heavy chemicals chain?  Or just ‘chemicals’ which go to lots of places
19:08:50  <andythenorth> probably just chemicals
19:09:32  <Jinassi> Have you changed cargo Id's lately?
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19:10:10  <andythenorth> the numeric IDs, or the labels?
19:15:16  <Jinassi> numeric, this was a while ago.
19:16:46  <andythenorth> they change per economy
19:16:59  <andythenorth> there’s no stability for the numeric IDs
19:17:04  <andythenorth> :)
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19:21:48  <Alberth> long metal chain seems sufficient of a problem to construct, as a first shot at it :)
19:22:14  <Alberth> you can always improve by adding a long chemical chain :p
19:22:32  <andythenorth> I looked at it :)
19:22:41  <andythenorth> I think it’s fine, except I don’t understand how plastics are made
19:22:53  <andythenorth> generic ‘chemicals’ can go most places
19:23:05  <andythenorth> ‘plastics’ is also very generic, and maybe should be less so
19:23:25  <Jinassi> oil+chemicals+goods?
19:23:26  <andythenorth> sometimes only having 2 industry outputs is 1 less than I’d want
19:23:38  <Alberth> doesn't really fit the chain, unless you add a car production chain :)
19:23:53  <andythenorth> car production + machines are at the top of the chain :)
19:24:08  <Alberth> cars needs loads of plastic :p
19:24:09  <andythenorth> I am trying to integrate some electrical production too, from copper mostly
19:24:18  <Alberth> +1
19:24:26  <michi_cc> PP, PE, PVC, PU, PTFE, ABS, PLA, PS, POM, PMMA, PET, PI, PC and whatever else I've forgotten... ;p
19:24:37  <andythenorth> I have probably 5 slots left or so currently
19:24:42  <andythenorth> assuming farms aren’t needed :P
19:24:52  <andythenorth> or food comes direct from farms
19:25:02  <Alberth> nah, do them in some other economy :)
19:25:05  <andythenorth> michi_cc: yes it’s all just letters to me :)
19:25:20  <andythenorth> I have a blind spot about chemistry, not sure why
19:26:54  <andythenorth> ‘plastics’ is very broad
19:27:46  <michi_cc> PVC + copper -> cables, PE + dye -> clothing, PTFE + aluminium -> cookware :p
19:28:40  <BluesInTheNet> what about potatoes? ever thought about potatoes?
19:28:55  <andythenorth> yup
19:29:20  <andythenorth> https://webster.openttdcoop.org/?channel=openttd&date=1479513600#1479546773
19:29:26  <andythenorth> there are all my thoughts about them
19:30:45  <BluesInTheNet> fair enough...
19:31:24  <andythenorth> I wondered about making an economy where all cargos begin with P
19:31:54  <andythenorth> Potatoes, Pyrite Ore, Paper, Passengers, Phosphate, Potash, Petrol
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19:33:37  <andythenorth> ‘slag’ http://www.railpictures.net/photo/596584/
19:38:16  <michi_cc> Oh, in case there are any chemistry nerds in this channel, I should have written PET + dye instead of PE + dye. I apologize for the inconvenience :)
19:40:25  <andythenorth> how does an electrical chain work?
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19:40:32  <andythenorth> I have copper, nickel, generic ‘metal’
19:41:08  <andythenorth> I need at least ‘vehicle parts’ out of it, and maybe ‘goods’ or ‘manufacturing supplies’ or ‘electronics’
19:41:34  <andythenorth> or maybe ‘electrical parts'
19:44:17  <andythenorth> ha ha, can’t do all this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Electrical_components
19:44:18  <andythenorth> :)
19:44:44  <michi_cc> Silicon + copper + plastics -> electronics
19:45:45  <andythenorth> can I use (silica) sand as proxy for silicon?
19:45:52  <andythenorth> I have it already for glass-making
19:46:53  <BluesInTheNet> plastic pieces + plastic pieces -> slightly larger plastic pieces
19:49:11  <andythenorth> that’s denmark economy :P
19:52:17  <Alberth> 'slag' doesn't make money :p
19:52:33  <Alberth> would be nice if you could force player to handle it, though :p
19:52:34  <andythenorth> I thought that
19:52:41  <andythenorth> but it can be turned into cement
19:52:47  <Alberth> win!
19:52:57  <andythenorth> I see a lot of ‘clinker’ cement trucks round here
19:53:11  <andythenorth> from steel mills
19:56:05  <andythenorth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_granulated_blast-furnace_slag
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20:01:16  <Alberth> nice find :)
20:05:55  <michi_cc> andythenorth: silica sand is probably the most common source for silicon, but I'm not sure if it is pure enough for wafers. I doubt that matters though, an "electronics factory" is already such a huge simplification anyway.
20:06:15  <andythenorth> let’s assume it has a complete chip fab in it :)
20:10:15  <michi_cc> Even that's not enough :) More like silicon refinery (or however that is properly called) -> fabrication -> front end (chip) fab -> back end (packaging) fab
20:10:29  <michi_cc> s/fabrication/wafer fabrication/
20:14:46  <andythenorth> I’ll just put it in one big shed :)
20:15:47  <Eddi|zuHause> sand->polycrystalline silicon->monocrystalline silicon->wafer->chip
20:16:24  <Eddi|zuHause> (and that's probably still vastly simplified)
20:16:58  <andythenorth> http://itersnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/%EC%82%BC%EC%84%B1-%ED%99%94%EC%84%B1-%EB%B0%98%EB%8F%84%EC%B2%B4-%EA%B3%B5%EC%9E%A5-%EC%82%AC%EC%A7%84_06.jpg
20:18:19  <michi_cc> s/chip/processed wafer->die->bonded die->chip
20:18:51  <andythenorth> not very interesting sprites :)
20:19:09  <andythenorth> similar to http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#vehicle_factory
20:21:32  <Alberth> nah, make it like the one in Nijmegen: http://flickrhivemind.net/blackmagic.cgi?id=6907235338&url=http%3A%2F%2Fflickrhivemind.net%2FTags%2Fbuilding%252Cnxp%2FInteresting%3Fsearch_type%3DTags%26textinput%3Dbuilding%252Cnxp%26photo_type%3D250%26method%3DGET%26noform%3Dt%26sort%3DInterestingness%23pic6907235338&user=&flickrurl=http://www.flickr.com/photos/30889238@N06/6907235338
20:22:08  <Alberth> last part probably suffices :p
20:23:22  <andythenorth> interesting shape
20:23:24  <Jinassi> andythenorth do you have or will you publish any test builds on bananas?
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20:24:07  <andythenorth> they get compiled automatically
20:24:09  <andythenorth> on bundles
20:24:22  <andythenorth> but I can’t publish them to bananas, it makes a mess
20:24:39  <Jinassi> kk
20:26:27  <andythenorth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/
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21:48:19  <Wolf01> o/
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22:28:37  <Wolf01> Boring evening?
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22:33:55  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:55:54  <BluesInTheNet> Do the cities grow forever?
22:56:51  <FLHerne> BluesInTheNet: There's a balancing point where the rate of growth and decay balance out
22:58:05  <FLHerne> You can make that basically infinite if you really want to, but natural cities tend to reach a limit <100k without silly hacks
22:59:36  <FLHerne> http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/User:Mfb/Towns has some explanations of why towns stop growing and ways to minimise that
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22:59:57  <BluesInTheNet> thx
23:00:24  <FLHerne> (also, NewGRFs can make it different, but that caveat goes for most things)
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