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00:04:48 *** smoke_fumus has joined #openttd 00:06:05 *** Gja has quit IRC 00:19:24 *** argoneus has quit IRC 00:19:24 *** argoneus has joined #openttd 00:20:26 *** aard has quit IRC 00:24:50 *** OsteHovel has quit IRC 00:25:01 *** OsteHovel has joined #openttd 00:33:30 *** Cursarion has quit IRC 00:33:31 *** Cursarion has joined #openttd 00:36:55 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 00:38:18 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: oh, also nice is a "Weltraumbahnhof", even though there aren't actually any rails into space :/ 01:02:26 *** smoke_fumus has quit IRC 01:19:38 *** ABCRic has quit IRC 01:20:16 *** ABCRic has joined #openttd 01:35:09 *** gelignite has quit IRC 01:40:10 *** BluesInTheNet has quit IRC 02:03:28 *** tycoondemon has joined #openttd 02:08:11 *** TrueBrain_ has joined #openttd 02:08:30 *** tycoondemon2 has quit IRC 02:08:46 *** glx has quit IRC 02:09:10 *** TrueBrain has quit IRC 02:09:20 *** Mazur has quit IRC 02:09:44 *** Mazur has joined #openttd 02:54:38 *** plp has quit IRC 03:26:38 *** LadyHawk has quit IRC 03:26:52 *** LadyHawk has joined #openttd 03:27:26 *** LadyHawk is now known as Guest330 03:33:52 *** ConductorCat has quit IRC 03:46:44 *** ConductorCat has joined #openttd 04:04:14 *** Mek has quit IRC 04:04:14 *** Mek has joined #openttd 04:29:50 *** Darksecond has quit IRC 04:31:25 *** Darksecond has joined #openttd 05:14:51 *** nobcatt has joined #openttd 05:16:55 *** NobCat has quit IRC 05:42:38 *** kais58 has quit IRC 05:42:52 *** kais58 has joined #openttd 06:01:02 *** debdog has quit IRC 06:01:15 *** debdog has joined #openttd 06:15:40 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 06:22:40 *** _dp_ has quit IRC 06:22:41 *** dP has joined #openttd 06:22:44 *** dP is now known as _dp_ 06:32:08 *** Cals has joined #openttd 06:46:38 *** dihedral has quit IRC 06:46:50 *** dihedral has joined #openttd 07:27:26 *** __ln__ has quit IRC 07:27:38 *** __ln__ has joined #openttd 07:34:28 *** TrueBrain_ is now known as TrueBrain 08:16:24 *** Sova has joined #openttd 08:17:22 *** supermop_ has quit IRC 08:21:02 *** czaks has quit IRC 08:21:03 *** czaks has joined #openttd 08:24:14 *** zwamkat has quit IRC 08:24:25 *** zwamkat has joined #openttd 09:14:00 *** Cals has quit IRC 09:16:14 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 09:21:57 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 09:22:08 <Wolf01> Moin 09:44:49 *** tokai has joined #openttd 09:44:49 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 09:46:56 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 09:51:37 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 10:02:36 *** maciozo has joined #openttd 10:10:32 *** Cals has joined #openttd 10:35:59 *** Cals- has joined #openttd 10:41:50 *** Flygon has quit IRC 10:42:12 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 10:42:50 *** Cals has quit IRC 11:12:26 *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd 11:13:02 *** Taede has quit IRC 11:13:36 *** Taede has joined #openttd 11:15:57 *** Sova has quit IRC 11:26:39 *** Guest330 is now known as LadyHawk 11:40:28 *** BluesInTheNet has joined #openttd 12:34:02 *** Cals- has quit IRC 12:41:50 *** joho has quit IRC 12:41:51 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 12:42:02 *** joho has joined #openttd 13:09:04 *** Flygon has quit IRC 13:10:18 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 13:22:46 *** JacobD88 has quit IRC 13:27:17 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 13:27:20 <andythenorth> o/ 13:29:42 <Wolf01> o/ 13:33:07 <andythenorth> is cats? 13:33:26 <Wolf01> No, just depression 13:33:58 <andythenorth> :| 13:34:06 <andythenorth> tried ‘not depression’? 13:34:20 <andythenorth> of the two options, ‘not’ is better 13:34:22 <Wolf01> It's bound to money 13:34:45 <Wolf01> Money = not depression, not money = depression 13:35:16 <andythenorth> money = spending power = sense of autonomy, ability to meet needs 13:35:19 <andythenorth> can’t eat money :) 13:35:36 <Wolf01> +1 13:40:50 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 13:40:51 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 13:40:55 <Wolf01> o/ 13:41:01 <Alberth> hi hi 13:41:28 *** gelignite has quit IRC 13:54:49 <goodger> Wolf01: can confirm that money != not depression 13:57:17 <Wolf01> You have a bf/gf? You have close friends? You don't have to deal with continuous harassment by your own country? You still have pets? At least I have some spare money, but I don't want to spend it because things can go even worse 13:58:17 <Wolf01> Also, do you still have space in your room to put lego? 14:00:05 <goodger> I have five years of cohabitation with what is essentially my husband, several friends, my country of birth is a hair's breadth away from going fascist, I have no pets, and theoretically there is space in here for lego, but I haven't tried 14:00:51 <Wolf01> Then it does seem that your life is fairly better than mine 14:01:11 <goodger> and yet still depression 14:03:18 <Wolf01> Did you got it diagnosed? I was cured once, so I know what it is 14:05:16 <Wolf01> And I'm actively trying to get rid of it, but now that winter is coming it bites even more 14:07:29 <Wolf01> I found that a constant supply of new things is enough to keep me happy in these times, but I don't have a constant money balance 14:10:10 <Alberth> sell old stuff ? 14:10:49 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 14:10:54 <Wolf01> Eh... I could sell some books 14:11:10 <Wolf01> Lego not for sure :P 14:12:02 <Alberth> :D 14:12:28 <Wolf01> I still have a lot of sets still MISB (sealed) 14:12:47 <Wolf01> Which I really want to build, but no space to put them 14:12:50 <Alberth> hmm, taking up space and you can't even play with it 14:14:20 <Wolf01> I need to get rid of at least 6 amazon big boxes filled with lego sealed boxes or built models 14:15:10 <andythenorth> I keep considering selling more Lego 14:15:20 <andythenorth> we sold some City stuff 14:15:47 <andythenorth> I have hoarded rare technic parts also 14:19:18 <andythenorth> should maybe sell those 14:19:41 <Wolf01> I would buy :P 14:20:46 <Wolf01> But 25kg of loose lego is waiting for me at a friend's home, because we decided to purchase some to split up 14:24:40 *** maciozo has quit IRC 14:26:19 <goodger> Wolf01: yes, I have, I see a psychiatrist every month and I'm on four medications 14:40:07 *** maciozo has joined #openttd 14:42:05 <Wolf01> Speaking of happier things, how's NRT?? What do we need now? 14:42:55 <Wolf01> I should leave a note to myself to fix editor 14:49:52 <Wolf01> https://ideas.lego.com/projects/158489 andy, this awaits your vote 14:51:36 <andythenorth> I don’t know what’s next on NRT 14:57:10 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 14:57:50 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 15:08:38 *** supermop has joined #openttd 15:11:17 <supermop> good morning 15:12:27 <Alberth> moin 15:15:12 <supermop> bought a monitor last night, still no computer tho 15:15:19 <Alberth> :D 15:15:30 <Alberth> at least you have something to look at :) 15:15:37 <supermop> three phones ago i had a phone with mini hdmi out 15:16:14 <supermop> maybe ill dig that up and connect it to the monitor and then pair a bluetooth mouse and keyboard to it 15:16:20 <Alberth> get the shoe box out! 15:17:13 <Alberth> would seem a bit silly though, a phone connected to a large monitor 15:22:25 <supermop> esp a phone from 2011 15:25:17 <Alberth> oh, that's very recent :p 15:26:52 <supermop> it was replaced when i moved to australia because it didn't work very well in 2014... 15:27:51 <Alberth> ah, fair enough 15:28:14 <supermop> so i don't know if it will quite work as a desktop replacement in late 2016 15:33:51 <Alberth> a monitor dedicated to the #openttd channel seems like a good idea 15:34:18 <Alberth> I hope it meets the minimal 28" size requirements 15:39:18 <supermop> haha 15:39:42 <supermop> use monitor and phone as a dedicated read only #openttd appliance 16:20:07 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 16:22:29 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 16:23:04 <supermop> an andy appears 16:36:29 <supermop> andythenorth: opioids for steeltown economy 16:54:42 *** TheMask96 has quit IRC 16:54:49 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 16:56:44 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd 17:03:29 *** Arveen has joined #openttd 17:03:39 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 17:03:53 <Alberth> wrong question :p 17:11:46 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 17:17:10 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 17:18:36 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 17:23:37 <andythenorth> supermop: playing Steeltown? o_O 17:25:54 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 17:26:08 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 17:26:20 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 17:32:23 <supermop> andythenorth: reading about opioid treatment in rustbelt 17:35:10 *** maciozo has quit IRC 17:43:37 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 17:45:23 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 17:47:44 <Wolf01> Quak 17:51:20 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 17:55:21 <frosch123> moi 17:56:14 *** glx has joined #openttd 17:56:14 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 18:03:37 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 18:11:18 *** Progman has joined #openttd 18:22:51 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 18:24:32 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 18:30:45 *** Gja has joined #openttd 18:41:22 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 19:01:55 *** srhnsn has joined #openttd 19:04:26 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 19:04:41 <andythenorth> ok so http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#steeltown 19:05:11 <andythenorth> works ok, in a first-time-played test game 19:05:17 <andythenorth> but 19:05:30 <andythenorth> ENSP and SESP are hard to get 19:05:57 <andythenorth> I have one shipyard with low output, and no ENSP at all 19:08:11 <frosch123> is that a good thing? 19:08:28 <andythenorth> I wondered 19:08:40 <andythenorth> it gives an obvious focus 19:08:56 <andythenorth> but the number of industries needing ENSP, and the amount I can produce are quite far apart 19:09:16 <andythenorth> options 19:09:19 <andythenorth> - it’s fine do nothing 19:09:27 <andythenorth> - add forest->lumber->ensp chain 19:09:40 <andythenorth> - add supply yard, accepting building materials -> ensp 19:11:08 <frosch123> could the pipe mill produce ensp? 19:11:17 <andythenorth> it could 19:11:29 <frosch123> water/air/stuff in mines 19:11:34 <andythenorth> plausible 19:12:55 <andythenorth> can’t remember why I removed ‘PIPE’ 19:12:59 <andythenorth> maybe it was just one cargo too many 19:13:22 <frosch123> no, it was because building materials already contained pipes 19:13:46 <frosch123> you found pipes on the builders yard or something 19:15:08 <andythenorth> ach why is chrome search so crap :P 19:15:32 <andythenorth> oh pipe messed up the graphviz layouts :) 19:15:41 <andythenorth> it’s an ‘interesting’ reason to remove it as a cargo :D 19:15:59 <frosch123> nah, it was because of building material 19:16:10 <frosch123> you cannot have nickel and base metals in the same economy 19:16:16 <frosch123> because nickel is part of base metals 19:16:20 <andythenorth> yes 19:16:25 <frosch123> do you cannot have pipe and building materials 19:16:40 <frosch123> vehicles draw pipes and stuff when they have building materials loaded 19:16:53 <andythenorth> can have in same economy if there’s a converter industry, but iff 19:17:06 <andythenorth> ‘subtypes’ :P 19:17:57 <andythenorth> might be an accident that pipe mill doesn’t have ensp 19:18:13 <andythenorth> logs suggest it was intended 19:21:23 <supermop> make some industries accept bdmt instead of ensp? 19:22:12 <andythenorth> every so often I consider that 19:22:14 <andythenorth> then I reject it 19:22:23 <andythenorth> the ENSP / FMSP thing is now pretty entrenched 19:22:34 <andythenorth> it’s a useful design constraint 19:22:40 <frosch123> yeah, players know what "supplies" means :) 19:22:45 <andythenorth> solid constraints are very valuable 19:22:53 <andythenorth> otherwise choices have no meaning 19:22:56 <supermop> industry needs bdmt to expand? 19:23:19 <andythenorth> might be valid, but it’s a new mechanic 19:23:34 <andythenorth> I don’t hate the idea, but it doesn’t fit FIRS I think 19:23:45 <supermop> just wondering 19:24:02 <supermop> somewhere for all those ibeams and precast concrete to go 19:25:15 <andythenorth> bdmt -> supply yard -> ensp 19:25:28 <supermop> feels like a cheat 19:25:38 <andythenorth> one unfinished steel chain has 12 primary source currently :P 19:26:11 <supermop> whats at the other end? 19:32:07 <andythenorth> so far, some galvanised steel 19:32:13 <andythenorth> and some marine supplies 19:32:36 <andythenorth> it’s definitely not suitable for a simple ‘connect all industries’ game :) 19:33:05 <andythenorth> might play quite well with silicon valley, with the right industries 19:33:17 <supermop> galvanized hmm 19:33:26 <supermop> light poles? 19:33:33 <supermop> catwalks? 19:33:41 <andythenorth> ‘building materials’ ;D 19:35:34 <andythenorth> also car bodies 19:36:14 <andythenorth> frosch123: know of any reason station refit order couldn’t offer choice of subtypes? o_O 19:36:18 <andythenorth> other than ‘UI would suck’ 19:36:24 <andythenorth> and ‘nobody wanted to do it’ 19:36:49 <supermop> i think you need to separate bdmt into every minuscule subtype 19:37:16 <supermop> "you delivered enough floorboards but not enough nails: town is not growing" 19:37:34 <andythenorth> urban economy eh? 19:37:45 <andythenorth> cement, coffee, flowers, furniture 19:37:48 <andythenorth> trainers 19:38:11 <frosch123> andythenorth: because subtypes depend on vehicle types, and there is no consistent way to store that in savegames 19:38:13 <supermop> "you delivered too many nails. the hardware stores went broke paying to store them: town is not growing" 19:38:28 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 19:38:51 <andythenorth> frosch123: and so refitting in depot has no need to store anything? 19:39:01 <andythenorth> because it’s not an order 19:39:13 *** aard has joined #openttd 19:39:21 <supermop> "you delivered air jordans but town wants Yeezeys: town is not growing" 19:39:30 <frosch123> manual refit only affects a single vehicle 19:39:33 <andythenorth> yup ok 19:39:39 * andythenorth has understood 19:39:45 <frosch123> ordered refit affects any vehicles, esp. when autoreplace is involved 19:40:35 <frosch123> you could try it with template based consist replacement 19:42:18 <supermop> "you delivered 100 British racing green cars, only one buyer wanted lime, 99 wanted forest green: town is not growing" 19:42:33 <andythenorth> we have template based consist replacement? o_O 19:42:53 <supermop> patch i think? 19:43:06 <andythenorth> ach, yes, the subtype potentially varies completely by vehicle, I should know that as newgrf author :P 19:48:10 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 19:48:20 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 19:48:32 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 19:51:07 <supermop> is there a steeltown for testing on dev zone? 19:51:37 <frosch123> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/ 19:53:41 <andythenorth> I’ve also been updating IH and RH and CHIPS with cargo support 19:53:54 *** aard has quit IRC 19:53:56 <andythenorth> although that’s not essential 19:56:11 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 19:56:43 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 19:56:56 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 19:57:10 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 19:57:26 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 19:58:06 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 20:00:07 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 20:02:06 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 20:07:13 <andythenorth> anyone got any bright ideas for ship capacity? 20:07:27 <andythenorth> it’s hard to get it ‘just right’, unlike trains and RVs 20:10:23 <Rubidium> why not make capacity refits where the running costs are scaled by the capacity. Then the ships can have the right capacity for many playing styles 20:10:46 <frosch123> capacity could equal 4, 6 and 8 tile trains 20:11:14 <andythenorth> capacity refits are…out 20:11:23 <andythenorth> because they can’t be used with station refit orders :) 20:11:26 <Rubidium> so one person says... okay 200 tons of X is for a small ship, 2000 for a large ship whereas someone else might say... well 50 tons is a small ship and 200 tons are huge 20:11:40 <frosch123> andythenorth: you can still use station refits 20:11:41 <andythenorth> I have capacity parameter however 20:11:45 <frosch123> just the subtype cannot change 20:12:30 <frosch123> a station refit from coal (medium) to iore (medium) works 20:12:57 <andythenorth> it does yes :) 20:12:59 <frosch123> you just need to make sure that all compatible cargos have the same subtypes (same strings) 20:13:16 <andythenorth> but I only use station refits in my game, and I’m making the grf :P ;) 20:13:51 <frosch123> oh, i remember, for andy station refits means to purchase a vehicle and just send it to the station 20:13:59 <andythenorth> yes 20:14:19 <andythenorth> that’s not scalable across different vehicle types with cargo subtypes 20:15:22 <andythenorth> there was some request for ‘build already refitted’ recently 20:16:36 <frosch123> it exists in patches 20:16:57 <frosch123> but users will complain that the preview capacity is incorrect :) 20:17:09 <frosch123> yet another case for template based consist purchase :p 20:17:22 <andythenorth> ha 20:17:22 <frosch123> not sure whether the template patch also does that 20:17:45 * andythenorth wonders about ships with holds 20:17:51 <andythenorth> and other ideas rejected many times over 20:18:46 <andythenorth> IRL, if a buyer has 3000t of grain, and the easiest charter is a 5000t ship 20:18:50 <andythenorth> they don’t fill every hold full 20:19:17 <andythenorth> ho, % full load would do it :P 20:19:23 <supermop> if its a charter, they would sell the other capacity 20:19:30 <andythenorth> only if there’s a buyer on hand 20:19:36 <andythenorth> small coastal shipping, might not be 20:19:41 <andythenorth> as if IRL matters anyway :) 20:19:43 <supermop> i meant wouldnt 20:19:57 <andythenorth> :) 20:20:16 <supermop> probably not worth waiting to find someone to take the other 2000t for the same route 20:20:22 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 20:20:26 <andythenorth> % full load, with a crazy overload option 20:21:09 <supermop> thats sort of the whole point of containerization and palatalization, before the ship just had to do what the customer wanted 20:21:28 <andythenorth> > 100% full load, increased chance of new ‘ship sank’ disaster 20:21:34 <supermop> even if it meant wasting capacity 20:21:35 <andythenorth> 'such gameplay’ 20:21:45 <supermop> or 'containers fell off' 20:21:55 <andythenorth> ‘cargo fell overboard' 20:21:59 <supermop> 'legos wash up on english beaches' 20:25:59 <Eddi|zuHause> "the front fell off"? 20:27:26 <frosch123> lego should be bulk cargo 20:31:52 <andythenorth> countable or uncountable? 20:32:58 <frosch123> pourable 20:33:51 <andythenorth> what about an order type restricted to ships, specifying amount of cargo to load :P 20:34:04 <andythenorth> [UI to enter a number] 20:34:18 <andythenorth> and there’s only one size of ship :P 20:34:20 <frosch123> i am wondering how trams should behave when encountering an incompatible tram type 20:34:37 <andythenorth> they get stuck 20:34:48 <frosch123> i think they should just revert, even though tram can usually not revert on full tile end 20:35:01 <andythenorth> they can if you hit ‘turn around’ enough times 20:35:10 <andythenorth> I can never figure out under what conditions that works 20:35:35 <frosch123> hmm, maybe they do 20:35:54 <supermop> andythenorth: click 3 times quickly 20:36:09 <supermop> unless its stuck at a dead end 20:36:12 <frosch123> but there is specific code to decide whether one could build tram track on the next tile for unstucking 20:38:24 <andythenorth> seems over-thought 20:38:37 <andythenorth> there’s no gain to punishing player? 20:38:44 <andythenorth> maybe there is, if they don’t build routes properly 20:41:27 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 20:41:57 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 20:42:16 <supermop> the game should be an exercise in misery 20:42:58 <supermop> the news should randomly pop up saying that your employees dislike you personally 21:02:59 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 21:04:24 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 21:12:58 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 21:13:26 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 21:18:51 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 21:19:02 *** Arveen has quit IRC 21:19:17 *** Alberth has left #openttd 21:19:19 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 21:22:36 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 21:23:01 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 21:29:34 *** maciozo has joined #openttd 21:47:52 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 22:03:49 *** maciozo has quit IRC 22:08:50 *** gelignite has quit IRC 22:19:15 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 22:19:31 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 22:25:03 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 22:25:26 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 22:25:31 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 22:32:20 *** Flygon has quit IRC 22:32:31 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 22:40:38 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 22:40:48 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 22:45:49 *** FLHerne_ has joined #openttd 22:45:49 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 22:54:27 *** Progman has quit IRC 23:01:31 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 23:05:26 *** srhnsn has quit IRC 23:09:00 *** Taede has quit IRC 23:09:13 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 23:09:55 *** DDR has quit IRC 23:17:22 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd 23:23:15 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 23:39:03 *** FLHerne_ has quit IRC 23:41:34 *** Gja has quit IRC 23:46:01 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has quit IRC 23:59:26 *** DDR has joined #openttd