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00:07:39 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has quit IRC 00:09:09 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 00:11:37 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 00:24:24 *** maciozo has quit IRC 00:26:22 *** maciozo has joined #openttd 00:40:21 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 01:07:57 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 01:10:52 *** anders has joined #openttd 01:15:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i think you missed the optimal beer drinking time by about 2 months 01:57:56 *** DDR has quit IRC 02:08:33 *** Fatmice has joined #openttd 02:09:42 *** maciozo has quit IRC 02:17:57 *** DDR has joined #openttd 02:22:24 *** smoke_fumus has quit IRC 02:23:45 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 02:29:17 *** techmagus has quit IRC 02:49:27 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 02:51:17 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 03:30:29 *** glx has quit IRC 05:12:06 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 05:22:27 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 05:41:58 *** Fatmice has quit IRC 06:40:38 *** techmagus has joined #openttd 06:43:46 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 07:48:54 *** Progman has joined #openttd 07:50:47 *** roidal has joined #openttd 07:55:47 *** Mucht has quit IRC 08:08:40 *** efess has quit IRC 08:49:52 *** Cals has joined #openttd 09:12:23 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 09:28:12 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 09:28:21 <andythenorth_> o/ 09:33:41 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 09:37:03 *** Cals has quit IRC 09:44:27 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 09:45:07 *** tokai has joined #openttd 09:45:08 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 09:52:12 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 10:00:49 *** efess has joined #openttd 10:29:30 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 10:29:57 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 10:29:57 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 10:30:13 <Alberth> o/ 10:34:58 *** Cals has joined #openttd 10:43:22 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 11:16:38 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 11:16:57 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 11:17:35 <andythenorth> o/ 11:18:15 <Alberth> hi hi 11:18:32 <Alberth> found the bugs I reported yesterday? 11:21:56 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 11:22:06 <Wolf01> o/ 11:23:18 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 11:24:03 <andythenorth> bugs? o_O 11:24:04 *** nobcat has quit IRC 11:26:52 <Wolf01> Why not? 11:28:07 <Alberth> well, more like suggestions to improve on :p 11:28:15 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 11:28:58 <Alberth> o/ W 11:38:40 <Wolf01> Mmmmh, no news good news for a week, I should do something 11:39:23 <Wolf01> Like, fixing a bug or fiddling with vehicles 11:41:53 <Wolf01> andythenorth, should we use github feature to track what we want to put in NRT? 11:42:05 *** Cals has quit IRC 11:44:05 <andythenorth> yes 11:44:08 <andythenorth> or the readme 11:47:23 <Wolf01> The readme is difficult to track 11:49:34 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 11:49:46 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 11:53:20 <Wolf01> This could get really weird, if a grf disables normal road, what should be build in place of it? 11:53:44 <Wolf01> Disables = replace? 11:55:30 <Wolf01> The scenario editor code is whispering strange things to my ear 11:57:40 <Wolf01> http://i.imgur.com/82nLVvR.png lol 11:59:42 <V453000> xd 12:00:58 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 12:01:04 <Wolf01> Quak 12:01:23 <frosch123> moi 12:01:28 <Wolf01> frosch123, last feature: guess the build toolbar http://i.imgur.com/82nLVvR.png 12:02:21 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 12:02:26 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 12:02:49 <frosch123> is there a difference to spot between the toolbars? 12:03:19 <Wolf01> No, I just can't figure out why DeleteWindowByClass(WC_BUILD_TOOLBAR); doesn't work 12:03:51 <frosch123> would we allow building tram tracks in se? 12:03:58 <Wolf01> Maybe it's because _cur_roadtype_identifier isn't a pointer 12:04:52 <Wolf01> That's a real question, I would like to be able to build any roadtype in se 12:05:30 <Wolf01> But there's something to understand about it: the introduction dates, availability to real companies etc 12:06:07 <Wolf01> In se you can cheat the date to 2000, build something, go back to 1900 12:06:13 <Wolf01> "cheat" 12:07:29 <frosch123> i think the same applies to funding industries 12:07:44 <Wolf01> Should we allow everything regarldess of the date and let scenario designers the respondibility to not fuck up things, or? 12:08:02 <frosch123> i think it should be consistent to industries, just to make it consistent 12:09:49 <Wolf01> Lol, it was WC_SCEN_BUILD_TOOLBAR not WC_BUILD_TOOLBAR 12:10:21 <Wolf01> But that closes the other toolbars too 12:10:24 <Wolf01> Mmmh 12:12:53 <Wolf01> Docks don't even try to close the toolbar 12:14:48 <Wolf01> Eh, yes... I'm not using the allocatewindow function... 12:19:10 <Wolf01> Still doesn't give a fuck O_o 12:24:17 <Wolf01> Maybe the ID = 0 is not really a good way to find a window 12:35:32 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 12:39:38 <Alberth> warn the designer of mistakes on closing the editor? (bit late, perhaps notify him/her in another way too?) 12:44:31 <Wolf01> I'm going to try something for headache, from aspirin to guillotine 12:49:14 <Wolf01> return AllocateWindowDescFront<BuildRoadToolbarWindow>(&_build_road_scen_desc, _cur_roadtype_identifier.Pack() | TRANSPORT_ROAD); <- how bad could it be? 12:52:06 <Wolf01> A lot, because it fits only se :| 12:54:40 <Wolf01> Any idea? 12:55:48 <frosch123> you are missing some shift there 12:55:58 <frosch123> Pack() and Transporttype overlap 12:56:29 <Wolf01> Yes, that's what I thought too, but I'm not convinced that's a good way to do it 12:57:59 <frosch123> why is it different to the in-game stuff? 12:58:22 <Wolf01> In-game it clears the building toolbar explicitly 12:58:52 <Wolf01> But in se, doing that clears every build toolbar and not just road one 12:58:56 <frosch123> in-game uses roadtype_identifier for the window number 12:59:20 <frosch123> that's also werid 12:59:35 <frosch123> RailToolbar uses transport type for window number 12:59:40 <frosch123> i think that makes more sense 12:59:59 <frosch123> not sure whether it needs a different window number for road and tram 13:00:10 <frosch123> but according to rail it does not need different numbers of subtypes 13:00:12 <Wolf01> Yes, I should change it back to transport type and use _cur_roadtype_id 13:02:51 <Wolf01> Done, more clear and works better 13:10:00 <Wolf01> Also fixed the crash, that was really easy 13:21:16 <Wolf01> frosch123, I was wondering, it will be possible to draw layers like "ground, road base, tram base, road, tram, catenary"? 13:22:53 <frosch123> "will be"? 13:22:54 <Wolf01> http://i.imgur.com/DNsV8Bb.png <- to fix that 13:23:09 <Wolf01> "could be" 13:23:25 <frosch123> ah, that part 13:23:35 <frosch123> yeah, i thought about that, but it does not work with the default sprites 13:23:55 <frosch123> i considered adding special overlay sprites when the roadtype changes 13:23:58 <Wolf01> Who uses default sprites anyway? 13:24:01 <Wolf01> :D 13:24:07 <frosch123> like junctions of dirtroad and normal road 13:24:13 <Wolf01> Yeah 13:24:17 <frosch123> where there is normal round, and then some dirt remains 13:24:31 <Wolf01> That is tricky 13:24:55 <frosch123> well, "catenary continuation" is still on my list, but the rest is definitely "future" 13:25:29 <Wolf01> Because with road+tram you have 2 types in the same tile, with road you have only 1 type and you must check in all the 4 directions what are the other types 13:25:57 <frosch123> with cat. cont. i mean a junction with electrified and non-electrified track, where the catenary is only drawn for those roadbits where the neighboured tile is also electrified 13:25:58 <Wolf01> I think it's the same on catenary 13:26:29 <frosch123> yeah, but with the catenary sprites it works :) but for deault road we lack sprites without grass 13:27:06 <Wolf01> A grf addon? 13:27:14 <frosch123> possibly, but not now :) 13:30:31 <Wolf01> http://cdn.mattonito.com/img/blog/767/xl/01-086.jpg <- andythenorth, do you know what it is? 13:32:22 <V453000> a box with wheely boxes visiting it to carry other boxes 13:32:48 <Wolf01> That's the general definition :D 13:33:05 <frosch123> when wolf is asking andy, it's most likely a lego factory 13:33:15 <Wolf01> Yup 13:33:23 <Wolf01> New factory in China 13:36:02 <Wolf01> He should make a lego economy for FIRS next :P 13:43:26 * Wolf01 browses forums looking for new features to work on 13:54:38 <Wolf01> Well, not many ideas 14:00:26 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 14:00:39 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 14:01:42 *** Cornelius has joined #openttd 14:03:03 *** maciozo has joined #openttd 14:03:07 <andythenorth> V453000: Amazon Warehouse? o_O 14:03:49 <andythenorth> eh? Wolf01 ^ wrong person :P 14:04:01 <Wolf01> Lego factory 14:04:05 <andythenorth> orly 14:04:16 <andythenorth> accepts: chemicals. produces: toys 14:04:22 <andythenorth> no toys cargo in FIRS yet 14:04:32 <Cornelius> the atrocity 14:04:37 <Cornelius> need toyz nao 14:04:54 <Cornelius> full with pba chems ^^ 14:06:00 <andythenorth> Wolf01: ideas….adjustable ship capacity 14:06:33 <Wolf01> About NRT? 14:06:49 <andythenorth> not so much 14:07:01 <andythenorth> ships aren’t so road-ish 14:08:16 <frosch123> venezian road type 14:08:56 <frosch123> *venician 14:09:20 <Wolf01> Venetian? 14:09:25 <frosch123> "not compatible with tram" 14:13:18 <andythenorth> movement would work ok though 14:13:23 <andythenorth> canal roads 14:13:35 *** DDR has quit IRC 14:13:40 <Wolf01> Also not compatible with other roads, must build bridges 14:13:49 <Cornelius> any reddit mod available? 14:14:03 <Eddi|zuHause> why would you assume there are reddit mods here? 14:14:12 <frosch123> try #/r/openttd 14:14:30 <frosch123> they used to have their own channel 14:14:37 <Cornelius> ahhh I see, new to irc and all 14:14:37 *** Gja has joined #openttd 14:14:42 <Cornelius> thanks 14:16:56 <V453000> :) 14:18:40 <andythenorth> har 14:18:47 <andythenorth> what could ships trade capacity for on refit? 14:18:48 <andythenorth> speed? 14:19:08 <frosch123> color? 14:19:13 <andythenorth> lawks 14:19:23 <andythenorth> you can have 25% more capacity, but only in black 14:19:27 <frosch123> payment decay rate? 14:19:33 <andythenorth> if you want red, you get 25% less capacity 14:19:43 <andythenorth> reliability :P 14:19:48 * andythenorth never uses breakdowns though 14:19:52 <frosch123> if 10% of cargo goas off-board, you get paid less 14:21:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd just add running cost 14:21:06 * andythenorth just trying to post-hoc rationalise not having station capacity refits available ;D 14:21:15 <andythenorth> terrible behaviour 14:21:25 <andythenorth> BAD FEATURE is born 14:21:59 <Eddi|zuHause> trading speed is useless, faster speed always wins 14:22:06 <andythenorth> doesn’t it just 14:22:18 <andythenorth> 25% more capcity, 25% less speed = same result, no? 14:22:23 <Eddi|zuHause> no 14:22:28 <andythenorth> allowing variance for distance 14:22:34 <Eddi|zuHause> because you earn less 14:22:39 <andythenorth> oh yes 14:22:48 * andythenorth was only thinking about throughput 14:23:14 <Eddi|zuHause> ship throughput is infinite anyway 14:25:11 <frosch123> if you exchange capacity for running cost, you make the choice purely visual 14:25:16 <frosch123> which may not be a bad thing 14:25:55 <frosch123> though more smaller ships give better station rating 14:26:20 <frosch123> thought that may trade off with purchase cost 14:27:48 <andythenorth> hmm, refitting gets a physicall bigger ship? o_O 14:27:54 <andythenorth> physically * 14:28:11 <frosch123> no, but less need for overlapping ships 14:28:49 <andythenorth> might be better to just spam the buy menu eh? 14:28:52 <Cornelius> is a hit box for ships still on the dev list or not going to happen? 14:29:00 <frosch123> also possible :) 14:29:11 <andythenorth> Cornelius be surprised if that happens 14:29:18 <andythenorth> assuming you mean collision detection 14:29:35 <andythenorth> at least one person has tried to patch it though iirc 14:29:41 <Cornelius> yes if that is the correct term for it 14:29:58 <frosch123> behaves like broodwar unit movement though :) 14:30:13 <Cornelius> dragon ships hehe 14:30:33 <Cornelius> is it also not a big drain on cpu? 14:33:31 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 14:33:47 *** Arveen has joined #openttd 14:36:00 <Alberth> we don't have it so far, so cpu drain is not so bad of that feature :p 14:38:19 <Alberth> frosch123: I am somewhat stuck with scenario tar loading, should that be a simple linear function, or should it be considered to be a form of world generation, or something else? 14:42:55 *** APTX_ has quit IRC 14:43:28 <frosch123> i don't think i understand the question 14:44:38 <Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/diffs/scentar201612 <-- that basically adds a "save" function for creating a scenario tar file (all very WIP) 14:44:49 <Alberth> it's called with a dirty hack for testing 14:45:09 <andythenorth> :) 14:45:12 <Alberth> obviously, somewhere that scenario tar file needs to be loaded too 14:45:29 <frosch123> currently we have "play scenario" and "play heightmap" 14:45:46 <frosch123> the former has everything set up, while the latter gives you various generation parameters 14:45:53 <Alberth> and 'edit scenario' :p 14:46:35 <Alberth> yeah, but depending on what's exactly in the tar file, we may need to fill in the missing parts 14:47:21 <frosch123> for scenario editor i think loading a traditonal scenario and a new one would just be the same thing 14:47:42 <frosch123> can you change the mapsize with the new scenario format? i think no 14:48:00 <Alberth> I agree, you don't want content that's not in the file 14:48:09 <Alberth> somewhat iirc 14:48:26 <frosch123> i guess it depends on the content then :p 14:48:28 <Alberth> some layers can be resized, others cannot 14:49:47 <Alberth> for example, currently a "town" is just a position and a name 14:50:13 <frosch123> i think heightmaps are special, because you can get them from external sources. 14:50:15 <Alberth> I think it will make a mess with the roads layer, but we'll see 14:50:32 <frosch123> i do not see an "obvious" difference between old and new scenario 14:50:41 <frosch123> so, i would put them into the same folders, and load them the same way 14:50:59 <frosch123> except that after selecting to play a new scenario there may be an additional dialog 14:51:04 <frosch123> to set additional generatio options 14:51:09 <frosch123> similar as to when loadnig a heightmap 14:51:19 <Alberth> makes sense 14:51:52 <Alberth> does it make sense to fold the loading into the world generation code? 14:52:06 <Alberth> or should it be kept separate? 14:52:38 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 14:52:50 <frosch123> worldgen is also in various files 14:53:10 <frosch123> there is genworld with the original mapgen, there is tgp for tgp, and there is landscape/industry to genrate parts 14:53:19 <Alberth> it could need eg town generation or industry generation 14:53:32 <frosch123> so, it's already a toolbox, since you can call parts from scenedit 14:53:41 <Alberth> ah, good point 14:53:52 <frosch123> both town and industry generation are available as separate items in scenedit 14:54:10 <frosch123> so, new file for loading new format imho :) 14:54:29 <Alberth> ok, I'll keep it separate then, as it should be either unique code, or just high-level calls to existing functions 14:54:57 <Alberth> we only have 300+ or so in /src already :p 14:55:39 <Alberth> oh, more like 450 :p 14:56:00 <Alberth> ok, thanks, I'll see how that works out 14:58:45 *** Progman has quit IRC 15:10:05 *** maciozo has quit IRC 15:10:32 *** anders has quit IRC 15:22:17 *** anders has joined #openttd 15:37:57 <Wolf01> frosch123, just for info, are you still using my clone repo? 15:40:41 <frosch123> i only push to https://github.com/andythenorth/NotRoadTypes/commits/road-and-tram-types 15:40:56 <frosch123> i pulled from various other places 15:41:14 <Wolf01> Ok, because I still getting sync messages from my repo 15:41:34 <frosch123> well, i think it still pulls from it 15:41:42 <frosch123> but i do not merge it, if there is anything new 15:42:20 <frosch123> i can remove the remote, if it bothers you :) 15:43:25 <Wolf01> It was just an info ;) 15:44:58 *** roidal_ has joined #openttd 15:48:45 *** anders has quit IRC 15:51:34 *** gelignite has quit IRC 15:51:52 *** roidal has quit IRC 16:24:02 <andythenorth> Iron Horse has a downside 16:24:18 <andythenorth> when the theme is ‘one obvious engine choice for any route’ 16:24:30 <andythenorth> there is no engine variety :P 16:28:32 <goodger> same is true of SBB Set 16:28:34 <frosch123> i cannot remember any game since autoreplace where i ever had more than 3 engine types in ooperation 16:28:38 <frosch123> so, where is the problem? 16:28:44 <goodger> so many KISSs and TGVs 16:30:14 <andythenorth> it’s better with tank engines; I randomise reversing the graphcs 16:30:43 <andythenorth> ho ho 16:30:59 <andythenorth> I could mess with the lengths, and reverse the tender engines too 16:31:06 <andythenorth> that’s a lot of switches :D 16:31:15 <Alberth> :p 16:31:53 <andythenorth> might be fun 16:31:58 <andythenorth> slower compile though 16:32:43 <Alberth> make -DNO_RANDOMIZE firs 16:33:18 <Alberth> euhm, iron_horse, of course 16:36:04 *** Extrems` has joined #openttd 16:37:50 *** Extrems has quit IRC 16:37:50 *** Extrems` is now known as Extrems 16:44:23 <Lejving> So we have a game freeze lagging like for 1-2sec once or twice every minute... anyone got any sort of idea what can be causing it? or how can one debug it? 16:45:22 <Eddi|zuHause> autosave? 16:46:06 <Lejving> I just tested it, wasn't that 16:46:11 <Lejving> still laggy =( 16:46:39 <Eddi|zuHause> ships? traffic jams? 16:46:47 <Lejving> no ships 16:46:48 <Lejving> no jams 16:46:54 <frosch123> cargodist? 16:47:05 <Lejving> what do you mean by that frosch123 ? 16:47:18 <frosch123> is cargo distribution enabled? 16:48:10 <Lejving> oh there's like 10 of those settings, but dib mode for pax/mail/so on is on manual 16:48:15 <Lejving> but the trains are actually stopped now 16:48:35 <Lejving> so nothing is going on except me moving the camera and it freeze lags every now and then 16:48:49 <Lejving> and it's the same for all users 16:49:14 <frosch123> well, it's probably the server then 16:49:21 <Lejving> I'm offline mode now 16:49:24 <Lejving> not the server 16:49:39 <frosch123> does it also happen if you pause the game, and only scroll? 16:50:04 <Lejving> nope 16:50:05 <Lejving> that seems fine 16:51:07 <Lejving> wow it feels like when you put on your shoes after iceskating 16:51:16 <Lejving> what an epic feeling with the game not freezing every now and then lol! 16:51:32 <Lejving> so liberating 17:08:19 <Lejving> if I turn off all newgrf except for one that crashes the game it still freezes 17:08:40 <Lejving> and it's only when unpaused 17:08:56 <frosch123> gamescripts or ais? 17:09:20 <Lejving> none 17:23:50 <Lejving> ok I found what it was 17:24:19 <frosch123> what? :) 17:24:35 <Lejving> the game didn't like the 169 orders :d 17:24:48 <Lejving> I shall try more debugging see if there's exactly one setting that's causing 17:26:50 <Lejving> yeap speed detection is dun g00fed 17:27:03 <Lejving> I bet speed detection runs every x tick or so, and that's when it freezes 17:34:49 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 17:34:57 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 17:58:32 <Wolf01> Speed detection? 17:59:13 *** glx has joined #openttd 17:59:13 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 17:59:45 <V453000> Wolf01: conditional order with speed check 18:05:36 <Wolf01> Is it checked on vehicle details or current speed? 18:06:08 *** Progman has joined #openttd 18:06:28 <Lejving> maximum speed 18:06:30 <Lejving> of the rail 18:08:06 <frosch123> i wouldn't know why anything speed related would take considerable cpu time 18:09:06 <Wolf01> Mmmh, I don't see an use for it, I would do 2 lines, one for goods and one for passengers, but I would use waypoints 18:09:43 <Lejving> http://i.imgur.com/JM5R2HG.png 18:09:47 <V453000> it's for conditional order magic Wolf01 18:10:24 <Wolf01> The fuck? 18:10:44 <V453000> openttdcoop using all functions of the game why are you surprised: ) 18:10:52 <Lejving> we have another part of the orders just like the one I linked, and then somre more later on the orderlist... total of 36 speed checks 18:12:14 <frosch123> so what? evaluating the speed in orders is same as opening a vehicle gui and looking at the speed in the start/stop bar 18:12:29 <frosch123> so, do your orders contain infinite loops or something? 18:12:40 <Lejving> maybe 18:13:16 <frosch123> i mean if you had cdist enabled, this would screw up the order prediction 18:13:21 <frosch123> but without cdist, i have no idea 18:14:58 <Wolf01> <V453000> openttdcoop using all functions of the game why are you surprised: ) <- I'm surprised to not being able to understand how this feature is used 18:15:23 <V453000> ah 18:15:29 <V453000> well you make a train go to a waypoint 18:15:36 <V453000> but the waypoint has multiple places 18:15:43 <V453000> each place is with different railtype 18:15:53 <V453000> and the engine checks for railtype, and adjusts it's speed 18:15:55 <V453000> it is a nuts thing 18:16:04 <Lejving> are you nuts 18:16:29 <Alberth> in a good way, yes 18:16:32 <Wolf01> Oh, so it's a contraption made upon another contraption 18:16:49 <V453000> yeah it's a combination of two features 18:17:01 <V453000> resulting in opening a whole new dimension of shit to do 18:17:12 <Alberth> :) 18:17:21 <frosch123> oh, i see... the order prediction is also executed when cdist is disabled :p 18:17:33 <Alberth> haha :) 18:17:42 <V453000> is that the cause of this? 18:18:04 <frosch123> very likely, because the order predicition tries all possible results of conditional orders 18:18:14 <V453000> XD 18:18:15 <V453000> OH 18:18:25 <frosch123> so, if you have long chains of conditions, it tries all combinations... 18:18:31 <V453000> is that possible to fix/change? 18:18:50 <frosch123> i would *think* that it is only needed if cdist is enabled 18:18:58 <frosch123> but i am not very familar with that code 18:19:07 <frosch123> GetNextStoppingStation() is the keyword 18:19:58 <Lejving> z0mg 18:21:26 <frosch123> do you have a savegame, so we can verify that it is that function? 18:22:40 <Lejving> hold on 18:24:27 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 18:25:38 <Lejving> you got it? 18:26:17 <frosch123> yep 18:31:28 <frosch123> apparently DeleteStaleLinks() is the keyword 18:31:42 <frosch123> it also does some recursive search on orders 18:33:19 *** anders has joined #openttd 18:34:21 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 18:37:39 <frosch123> hmm, so the smallmap also shows all the links when cdist is disabled 18:38:01 <frosch123> so, it's no "just skip if cdist disabled " :) 18:38:07 <Lejving> yeah that's what I've been saying all the time! 18:38:14 <Lejving> just listen 18:38:36 *** DDR has joined #openttd 18:38:44 <Lejving> *coughs* 18:39:34 <frosch123> maybe in some other channel :) 18:39:38 <Lejving> haha 18:39:55 <Lejving> read between the lines! 18:40:10 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 18:45:58 <frosch123> just delete the "* pickup" stations, and it should be fine 18:46:46 *** DDR_ has joined #openttd 18:47:08 <Lejving> :O 18:49:24 <frosch123> do you have 119 separate order lists? 18:49:36 <frosch123> or did you forgot sharing orders a few times? 18:49:47 <Lejving> must have been forgeting to share 18:50:09 <frosch123> nah, i miscounted 18:50:24 <Lejving> all network trains should share same order 18:50:55 <frosch123> 1197/1455 are shared 18:51:13 <frosch123> 98 logic trains :p 18:51:25 <V453000> :) 18:51:55 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 18:53:46 *** DDR has quit IRC 18:55:38 <Lejving> guess who's the slave frosch123 :D 18:55:46 <Lejving> they make blueprints I get to do the salve work 19:01:32 *** maciozo has joined #openttd 19:07:22 <V453000> before blueprints were mainstream 19:07:24 <frosch123> the cpu is the slave 19:11:47 <andythenorth> should FIRS docs be translated? 19:11:57 * andythenorth doesn’t have enough distractions yet 19:24:46 <frosch123> https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/pzg26.png <- boring economy 19:26:45 <Wolf01> Oh my... 19:31:26 *** DDR has joined #openttd 19:32:02 <V453000> =D 19:36:39 *** DDR_ has quit IRC 19:41:06 *** DDR_ has joined #openttd 19:42:58 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 19:46:17 *** Taede has quit IRC 19:46:26 *** DDR has quit IRC 19:47:18 *** Taede has joined #openttd 19:48:19 *** Taede has quit IRC 19:49:32 *** Taede has joined #openttd 19:58:09 *** bryjen has joined #openttd 20:03:41 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 20:11:32 <andythenorth> frosch123: I like how the last industry produces the input for its supplier 20:11:57 <frosch123> :) 20:40:39 <V453000> frosch123: is there any hope to get moar perforamnce for us then? :) 20:41:12 <frosch123> no, that graph means there is no easy solution. someone actually has to understand the algorithm 20:41:19 <V453000> oh :( 20:41:31 <frosch123> which means, unless you can get hold of fonsinchen, nobody is going to check it 20:41:36 <V453000> right 20:41:43 <V453000> that's pretty bad 20:45:22 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 20:47:28 <andythenorth> Wolf01: after NRT, ‘flat docks’ o_O 20:48:40 <Wolf01> I think I'll lose myself in state machines, not just OTTD one, but for my game too 20:51:10 *** anders has quit IRC 20:55:00 *** APTX has joined #openttd 20:59:34 *** Myhorta has joined #openttd 20:59:36 <V453000> do we have some email for fonso? 21:00:40 *** anders has joined #openttd 21:00:49 <frosch123> forum pm? 21:01:12 <ST2> pidgeon? :P 21:01:34 <V453000> good idea 21:01:40 <V453000> I'll send my personal slug 21:05:21 *** roidal_ has quit IRC 21:23:32 *** Cornelius has quit IRC 21:26:58 *** Alberth has left #openttd 21:42:49 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 21:45:31 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:47:58 *** orudge has quit IRC 21:48:01 *** orudge has joined #openttd 21:49:19 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 21:49:19 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 22:03:09 <fonsinchen> V453000: I'm here 22:04:14 <fonsinchen> Should I read all that backlog ... 22:04:37 <V453000> hello :) 22:04:47 <V453000> frosch found something weird here 22:04:48 <V453000> https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/pzg26.png 22:05:04 <V453000> trains which are checking for max speed are causing massive lag 22:05:14 <V453000> the problem is, we have cargodist off 22:05:17 <V453000> yet it still affects it 22:05:35 <V453000> [if I understand what frosch said correctly] 22:07:10 <fonsinchen> Hmm, yes, I remember, but why did I do that? 22:07:22 <V453000> shrug :) 22:07:23 <fonsinchen> There was some reason 22:07:43 <V453000> but if cdist is off? 22:08:13 *** orudge` has quit IRC 22:08:22 <fonsinchen> Maybe I can figure it out from the commit log. BTW, what is the order list that triggers this? 22:09:06 <V453000> sec will provide the save 22:09:10 <V453000> yeah the orders are crazy 22:09:12 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 22:09:12 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 22:09:51 <V453000> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/PZG%20%2326%2C%2022nd%20Mar%202412.sav 22:10:01 <V453000> should be r27680 22:10:42 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 22:12:24 <V453000> the idea is that the big train group goes through the whole loop and does whatever necessary 22:12:35 <V453000> the trains have a switch for max speed based on which railtype they drive on 22:13:02 <V453000> that way we can have them make decisions based on where they crossed a waypoint 22:14:21 <Wolf01> I still think you are playing the wrong game 22:14:31 <V453000> not really 22:14:35 <V453000> no other game has this much depth 22:14:51 <V453000> to me at least 22:15:11 <Wolf01> Pfffff, and that F video with combinators and shit? 22:15:25 <V453000> that's just binary bullshit 22:15:33 <V453000> it's amazing, of course 22:16:26 <Wolf01> No, I mean you should design Train Simulator scenarios instead of playing OTTD 22:16:35 <V453000> why? 22:17:07 <Wolf01> Because they are fucked up amazingly too 22:17:16 <V453000> it's different 22:17:30 <V453000> here trains can do all sorts of crazy things :) 22:17:33 <fonsinchen> V453000: one problem with not updating the link graph when cargodist is off is that you can switch it on and off during the game. That leads to all kinds of funny corner cases if you also stop updating the link graph then. Like stale links staying around forever 22:17:47 <V453000> ._. 22:18:14 <Wolf01> There can even do shunting puzzles 22:18:15 <V453000> does that mean this is unfixable? 22:18:25 <fonsinchen> It can probably be dealt with, but I just didn't think it would be that expensive. 22:18:42 <fonsinchen> Tracking down all the corner cases is certainly possible, but annoying. 22:19:04 <V453000> could you please try? :) I would greatly appreciate it, this feature allows us to do a whole new dimension of things 22:19:11 <fonsinchen> Another way would be making that function more efficient. 22:19:22 <fonsinchen> That's likely easier 22:21:45 <fonsinchen> V453000: Also, the link graph is a separate feature you can use without cargodist. You still see the links in the smallmap then. 22:22:07 <fonsinchen> Man those 32bit grfs are large ... 22:23:00 <V453000> but without cargodist, is that actually useful anyhow? 22:23:14 <V453000> like, would it be reasonable to make it a setting? even if non-gui setting 22:23:21 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 22:24:57 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 22:28:31 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 22:30:11 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 22:30:21 <fonsinchen> V453000: A setting could be done. But there is this comment "There is potential for optimization here" that I left in DeleteStaleLinks() ,,, and in fact, all of the trains in your game look pretty similar 22:30:59 <V453000> all the trains doing this should be 1 order group 22:31:05 <fonsinchen> So, the overhead could probably be cut down to 1/#trains here if we can just identify trains that are the same 22:31:24 <V453000> that would be great 22:31:40 <fonsinchen> The problem is refitting 22:31:55 <V453000> :d 22:31:58 <V453000> why? 22:34:27 <fonsinchen> Because you don't see that the trains are the same then. That is they are in fact the same but they still carry different cargo types. 22:34:47 <V453000> oh so it isn't just about order sharing 22:34:48 <V453000> I see 22:35:06 <fonsinchen> But, thinking of it, this function should actually abort as soon as it finds one train that hits the link 22:35:27 <fonsinchen> And if all the trains are doing the same, that should be the first one it checks 22:35:36 <fonsinchen> ... unless there is some other bug 22:35:41 <V453000> :D 22:41:14 <V453000> !pwq 22:41:16 <V453000> !pw 22:41:18 <V453000> eh 22:41:32 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 22:51:23 <fonsinchen> V453000: Well there is this one huge order list with tons and tons of trains following it and then some other order list with very few vehicles that visit their links very rarely 22:51:52 <V453000> right 22:52:06 <fonsinchen> whenever that latter link times out it goes and checks all of the big order list in order to see if one of the vehicles there might ever visit the link that's timing out 22:52:10 <fonsinchen> That takes forever 22:52:38 <V453000> :0 22:53:40 <fonsinchen> And yes, there is already an optimization that first checks if both stations are actually in the order list 22:55:47 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 22:55:53 <fonsinchen> V453000: Can you point me to the vehicles that server the links that are timing out in your game? 22:56:16 <V453000> server links? 22:58:07 <fonsinchen> no, links between stations. But I can probably figure that out myself .. 22:58:25 <V453000> I'm not sure how to obtain it 22:58:36 <V453000> I have no clue which thing is actually causing the problem 23:04:01 <fonsinchen> TownCDrop to TownCGetYeti 23:04:42 <V453000> that's where they drop things and go obtain yetis 23:04:50 <V453000> would "unload and leave empty" order help? 23:04:53 <fonsinchen> Nuke preventer #2 does that 23:05:05 <fonsinchen> through implicit orders 23:05:12 <V453000> O_O 23:05:12 <fonsinchen> probably randomly 23:05:19 <V453000> I don't get it at all :D 23:06:04 <fonsinchen> V453000: all other trains also have those two stations in their list, but not as subsequent stops 23:06:05 <Wolf01> Lol V 23:06:23 <V453000> ooo 23:06:36 <fonsinchen> V453000: It evaluates all those conditions to see if it needs to keep the link alive that the nuke preventer created 23:06:41 <V453000> so removing the nuke preventer trains with implicit orders will help? 23:06:53 <fonsinchen> Yes 23:06:57 <fonsinchen> in this case 23:06:57 <V453000> :D 23:07:08 <V453000> but it won't solve it entirely right? 23:08:12 <fonsinchen> One obvious optimization would be to sort the order lists by the number of vehicles that follow them. 23:08:34 <fonsinchen> So, we check the few vehicles first and if they hit the link, we're done. 23:09:18 <fonsinchen> The more general solution would be to figure out that all those trains are actually the same and we need to only check one of them 23:09:50 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 23:11:39 <fonsinchen> Nah, even better 23:12:01 <fonsinchen> We first check the first vehicle of each order list, then the second of each order list, etc. 23:12:29 <fonsinchen> If one vehicle of some order list hits the link we're very likely to check it early 23:13:01 <fonsinchen> ... unless it's the one vehicle that carries a different cargo than all others and sits at position 1432 :( 23:13:21 <V453000> jesus fuck I removed some nuke preventers and there is 73 more of them XD 23:17:14 <Wolf01> Lol, the only grf I'm missing is yeti extended :E 23:17:41 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd 23:18:46 *** bryjen has quit IRC 23:22:28 <V453000> JustGetIt? :P 23:23:04 <Wolf01> I'm already getting it 23:23:09 <Wolf01> :P 23:23:20 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 23:25:56 <Wolf01> Shit, those cities 23:27:31 *** Arveen has quit IRC 23:29:16 <V453000> that's the easiest thing on this game :P 23:29:24 <V453000> just build road, let it grow 23:30:35 <V453000> fonsinchen: ok want a save without the nuke protection trains? 23:31:15 <V453000> I think it's a bit better 23:31:39 <V453000> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/PZG%20%2326%2C%201st%20Oct%202413-no-nuke-protectors.sav 23:32:25 <V453000> hm idk now it happened quite similarly 23:32:28 <V453000> well, here it is :) 23:32:34 <V453000> I have to go sleep, it's late 23:32:55 <V453000> will be around tomorrow :) and thank you very much for looking into it, it's amazing 23:47:16 <fonsinchen> After you remove the nuke protectors you still have to wait until all their links time out