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11:53:06 <Alberth> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1179647#p1179647 11:53:26 <Alberth> no, a literal is something with " thingies 11:53:45 <Alberth> string(TTD_STR_CARGO_SINGULAR_COAL) would work I think 11:54:35 <Alberth> ^ I am pretty sure I copied that knowledge from one of your projects :p 11:54:43 <Alberth> (forum link) 11:56:37 <Alberth> yep, from fish: grep string fish.nml | grep , 11:57:38 <Alberth> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pp60mv3nj 11:58:39 <andythenorth> grf strings work 11:58:45 <andythenorth> but the problem is TTD strings 11:59:28 <Alberth> they are a number? 11:59:45 <andythenorth> they have constants defined 11:59:53 <andythenorth> and they’re expected to be literals 11:59:55 <Alberth> string(1234) doesn't do anything useful (with a more useful number probably) 11:59:58 <Alberth> ? 12:00:01 <andythenorth> but can’t use a literal inside string() 12:00:16 <Alberth> ah 12:01:00 <andythenorth> I am just double-checking, but I expect to get ‘not found’ if I do string(TTD_STRING) 12:01:03 <andythenorth> yeah, not found :) 12:01:31 <andythenorth> interesting problem 12:02:24 <Alberth> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Default_TTD_strings <-- says not to use string() 12:02:34 <Alberth> I assume it's correct there :) 12:04:20 <andythenorth> it’s correct :) 12:04:29 <andythenorth> but that means TTD strings can’t be used as substrings 12:04:30 <andythenorth> nvm 12:05:51 <andythenorth> if I don’t use the default TTD cargo strings (where they exist), translators will have to duplicate existing translations 12:06:02 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 12:06:21 <andythenorth> I already provide them in English for the docs, which can’t access TTD strings, so it’s no extra work for me 12:06:28 <andythenorth> but for translators, might be annoying 12:10:51 <Alberth> what happens if you use the number inside the 'string()' ? 12:11:10 <Alberth> also, do you use it as parameter, or as main string? 12:12:51 <Alberth> there is no regression test either, so it may have been tested last a looong time ago, if at all 12:13:45 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 12:14:58 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 12:15:55 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 12:20:16 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 12:24:58 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 12:26:41 <argoneus> good morning train friends 12:27:52 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 12:30:22 <andythenorth> Alberth: using the string number fails as ‘First parameter of string() must be an identifier' 12:30:30 <andythenorth> which is expected I think :) 12:31:26 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 12:36:29 <Alberth> yeah, and parameter? 12:37:58 <Alberth> string(STR_JUST_STRING, 1234) where STR_JUST_STRING : {STRING} 12:39:25 * andythenorth tests 12:39:31 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 12:39:43 <Alberth> this would suggest you can just use the constant name instead of string(...) 12:39:53 <andythenorth> that was my initial expectation 12:40:56 <Alberth> 1234 can be a TTD_STR_... literal, I would expect 12:40:59 <andythenorth> the number doesn’t work as a parameter 12:41:03 <Alberth> :( 12:41:06 <andythenorth> Expected a (literal) string 12:41:12 * andythenorth checks the generated nml 12:41:20 <andythenorth> it’s a very not-simple test case :( 12:41:57 <Alberth> it starts to sound like a bug, imho 12:42:17 <andythenorth> in the parser? 12:42:38 * andythenorth would suspect more likely in FIRS, right now :P 12:42:43 <andythenorth> I need to make a simple test case 12:42:44 <Alberth> no, you'd get a "parse error" then :) 12:43:05 <Alberth> nml has a 'regression' directory with tests 12:43:44 <andythenorth> yes 12:44:02 <Alberth> no TTD_ text in there 12:46:53 <andythenorth> so I made a simpler test case which fails also 12:46:54 <andythenorth> string(STR_EXTRA_TEXT_SECONDARY, TTD_STR_CARGO_SINGULAR_COAL, string(STR_EXTRA_ALUMINUM_PLANT)) 12:47:04 <andythenorth> not a literal 12:47:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i would expect you can only use TTD_STR_* by pushing it to the text stack 12:47:24 <Eddi|zuHause> not using the string(..., ...) method 12:47:34 <andythenorth> that is plausible, and might give a solution 12:55:28 *** maciozo has joined #openttd 12:57:25 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 13:01:45 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 13:02:41 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 13:05:36 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 13:06:38 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 13:06:54 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 13:08:05 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 13:20:18 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 13:20:30 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 13:31:39 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 13:34:11 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 13:37:20 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 13:37:53 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 13:39:58 *** Guest1113 is now known as FR^2 13:53:05 *** umgeher_ has joined #openttd 13:54:39 *** umgeher has quit IRC 14:14:16 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 14:14:46 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 14:17:08 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 14:18:07 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 14:21:49 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 14:27:51 <supermop> yo 14:30:01 <crem> yo++ 14:45:05 *** maciozo has quit IRC 14:54:53 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 15:20:39 <andythenorth> ach now I have to look up text stack syntax for nml :P 15:25:36 *** maciozo has joined #openttd 15:48:20 *** BluesInTheNet has joined #openttd 15:49:56 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 15:52:05 <Wolf01> :o today is friday 15:55:32 *** DDR has joined #openttd 15:57:25 *** TheMask96 has quit IRC 16:01:54 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd 16:03:31 <Alberth> yep 16:23:47 <Wolf01> Mid week holidays disturb me a lot 16:25:08 <Alberth> lack of mid-week holidays is also disturibing, every now and then :) 16:45:38 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 16:48:01 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 16:49:25 *** Progman has joined #openttd 17:00:15 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 17:06:12 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 17:17:22 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 17:18:06 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 17:20:14 *** Fatmice has quit IRC 17:30:41 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 17:38:51 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 17:51:49 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 17:53:10 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 18:01:22 *** glx has joined #openttd 18:01:22 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 18:06:10 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 18:09:47 *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd 18:11:12 *** JacobD88 has quit IRC 18:14:07 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 18:18:51 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 18:41:09 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 18:45:44 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27684 trunk/src/lang/italian.txt (2016-12-09 19:45:36 +0100 ) 18:45:45 <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints: 18:45:46 <DorpsGek> italian: 1 change by lorenzodv 18:59:52 *** m1cr0man has joined #openttd 19:13:40 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 19:14:44 <andythenorth> o/ 19:14:49 <supermop> yo 19:16:46 <frosch123> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pym4p67ue?/pym4p67ue <- andythenorth: can you try that one? 19:18:08 * andythenorth patches nml 19:18:11 <supermop> i still haven't picked a malware appliance yet 19:19:26 <frosch123> supermop: do you need a list of boat owners? 19:20:00 <supermop> my dad is lobbying for me to get a surface book, but 2700USD and still only 16gb ram is tough for my budget 19:20:00 <andythenorth> supermop: ‘many options, decide late’ is usually a good strategy 19:20:09 <andythenorth> or you just buy a mac, like me, because eh, choice is boring 19:20:11 <supermop> frosch123: sure why not 19:20:20 <supermop> andythenorth: that what the wife does 19:20:31 <andythenorth> it’s a much simpler form of consumerism 19:20:44 <andythenorth> particularly for phones, about which I have zero interest 19:20:58 <andythenorth> so I just buy ‘phone’ which = cheapest iphone with 32GB 19:21:23 <supermop> getting anything set up with autocad etc by week before christmas would be nice though, allowing me to work from 'home' in the week before new years 19:21:37 <supermop> andythenorth: pixel with 128 is nice 19:21:52 <supermop> where 'home' is possibly asia 19:22:43 * andythenorth prefers no research, no thinking, no angst about ‘what kind of person am I?’ or ‘what’s the most performance per £?’ :P 19:24:52 <supermop> over the past year ive used a home computer, when mine was still working, for 1)playing go, 2) reading tt-forums, 3) designing a few pieces of junk to 3d print 19:25:05 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 19:25:08 <supermop> so really dont need much of a beast 19:29:06 <supermop> maybe ill just spend computer budget on gifts for wife 19:29:21 <supermop> and hope that she then buys me a computer 19:29:26 <andythenorth> buy wife new mac, use wife’s old mac 19:29:55 <andythenorth> install windows if you need it 19:32:18 <andythenorth> ach 19:32:26 <andythenorth> how do I build nmlc binary? o_O 19:32:31 <andythenorth> I thought it was just ‘make' 19:32:52 <frosch123> binary? 19:33:05 <andythenorth> I need an nmlc I can install in python 19:33:51 <frosch123> i thought you would just run /home/andy/nml/nmlc firs.nml 19:34:19 <andythenorth> yes I should do that 19:34:49 <andythenorth> but I still need to build that nmlc? 19:35:00 * andythenorth has serious Friday brain 19:35:10 <frosch123> no :) it's python 19:35:18 <frosch123> or did you move to windows? 19:35:44 <andythenorth> oh that nmlc is just an entry point 19:35:48 <andythenorth> I should have opened it and looked :P 19:37:05 <andythenorth> I am being surrounded by brio train track construction right now 19:38:31 <frosch123> someone likes trains? 19:39:56 <andythenorth> two someones 19:41:37 <andythenorth> I have to dig some more 19:41:38 <andythenorth> nmlc ERROR: "../lang/english.lng", line 5: Undefined command "TITLE" 19:41:49 <andythenorth> firs nml can’t be built without all the args 19:41:57 <andythenorth> which is why I was trying to install it :) 19:42:08 <andythenorth> (it=nmlc in my python bin dir) 19:42:22 * andythenorth will figure it out 19:42:45 <supermop> NewBrioTypes 19:43:44 <andythenorth> ach I need to give the path to custom_tags.txt 19:44:44 <andythenorth> ok, building now 19:46:13 <andythenorth> frosch123: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pybnluwuo 19:46:45 * andythenorth must parent for a bit :) 19:50:47 <frosch123> hmm, is the string() stuff even meant for parameters? 19:51:00 <frosch123> it looks more like static concatenation of string 19:52:55 <frosch123> looking at extra_text_primary.pynml: the textstack stuff is done via STORE_TEMP, not via string 20:04:27 <frosch123> https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/railtiledesc.png https://paste.openttdcoop.org/plzzu7ujn?/plzzu7ujn <- listing the railtype explicitly in the tile info window 20:05:04 <frosch123> the previous construction from strings was only done for plain rail tiles, likely was weird for translations, and does not work for road/tram types :) 20:09:24 <frosch123> trashing 22 translations per language :) 20:10:14 <frosch123> hmm, does trashing translations actually work in eints? 20:10:27 <frosch123> i think it just keeps them as invalid 20:57:07 <andythenorth> it’s not a great user story for translators afaik 20:57:23 <andythenorth> the FIRS change I want to make will improve translations for the long term 20:57:37 <andythenorth> but in the short term, translations will be very broken, until translators fix them 20:58:14 <andythenorth> I can do this with text stack if I need to 20:58:36 <andythenorth> it’s just usually easier to start by concatenating strings, especially because they’re static 21:00:07 <Alberth> there is a minimum number of old translations that eints keeps, and a time out, iirc 21:00:15 <frosch123> i wonder how to trick eints 21:00:30 <frosch123> i could commit the script-fixed translations first 21:00:36 <frosch123> and then commit the baselanguage change 21:01:06 <frosch123> maybe that results in valid but outdated strings, so people could still look at them 21:01:11 <Alberth> reduce the numbers, restart, eints throws stuff in the bin, stop eints, revert numbers, start eints again 21:01:43 <Alberth> no idea what values you use, maybe it's ok already :) 21:02:56 <Alberth> oh, base strings change of course, it trashes deleted base strings afaik, no way to ever see them again 21:03:34 <Alberth> ie, it's all attached to the string name 21:04:20 <Alberth> upload language should know, I guess 21:07:43 <andythenorth> hmm 21:07:50 <andythenorth> dunno whether to try switching to text stack 21:07:58 <andythenorth> or just put the cargo strings I need in the lang file 21:08:19 <frosch123> how many strings does firs need? 21:08:31 <frosch123> in the compiled output 21:10:40 <andythenorth> total string count? Or just for this one use case? 21:11:36 <frosch123> hmm, firs does not compile 21:11:54 <andythenorth> error? o_O 21:12:37 <Alberth> it seems, after modifying the base language, it walks through all translations, and deletes all string names that are no longer available (pages/upload_language.py, lines 174 21:12:44 <frosch123> i guess you already pushed stuff :) 21:13:08 <frosch123> nmlc info: D0xx strings: 84/1024 <- ok, looks like there is no problem currently 21:13:25 <frosch123> i was worried that composing all the combinations would result in many strings 21:13:32 <andythenorth> DCxx strings: 236/256 21:13:40 <andythenorth> but that’s...ok? 21:13:49 <frosch123> those are cargo names :) 21:14:04 <andythenorth> hmm 21:14:12 <andythenorth> that’s….possibly a problem soon 21:14:23 <frosch123> maybe also industry names, not sure 21:14:27 <andythenorth> especially if I duplicate the OpenTTD default strings 21:14:51 <andythenorth> I use 19 default cargo names 21:15:37 <andythenorth> also I pushed ‘not broken compile’ :| 21:15:40 <frosch123> Alberth: are you talking to me or to andy? 21:15:49 <frosch123> we kind of had two string discussions :) 21:15:49 <andythenorth> me :) 21:18:17 <andythenorth> I don’t understand the result of using nml ‘string(ID, substring)’ w.r.t string count 21:18:38 <andythenorth> does each resulting string use up a string ID? 21:18:56 <frosch123> if you use STR_A and STR_B then string(STR_A, STR_B) adds a third string 21:19:00 <andythenorth> ach 21:19:11 <frosch123> it does not actually use the textstack, it statically composes a new one 21:19:14 <andythenorth> I was hoping there were magic bytes for ‘insert another string’ 21:19:24 <andythenorth> I might switch to the text stack for this 21:19:35 <andythenorth> does the text stack have any performance costs? 21:19:53 <frosch123> none that you can measure 21:20:05 <frosch123> rendering the actual font will always take longer 21:20:09 <andythenorth> it will increase compile time marginally, there will be a lot more nml switches 21:22:59 *** Ethereal_Whisper has quit IRC 21:24:53 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 21:26:44 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27685 /trunk/src/lang (56 files in 2 dirs) (2016-12-09 22:26:37 +0100 ) 21:26:45 <DorpsGek> -Change: Preemptively invalidate translation changes of next commit for eints. 21:27:27 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27686 /trunk/src (7 files in 2 dirs) (2016-12-09 22:27:22 +0100 ) 21:27:28 <DorpsGek> -Change: List railtype of rail tiles explicitly in the tile info window. 21:27:38 <frosch123> let's see whether that tricked eints 21:28:14 <frosch123> yay, looks good 21:28:58 <frosch123> i may get scolded by the farm for one commit, but the eints result is fine :p 21:29:12 <Alberth> :) 21:30:09 <Alberth> nn 21:30:16 *** Alberth has left #openttd 21:35:05 * andythenorth must find nml text stack docs 21:36:33 <frosch123> pretty sure there are none :) 21:37:32 <frosch123> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Language_files#String_parameters <- possibly trhat one 21:38:52 <andythenorth> so just store temp, and {STRING} (or with formatting) 21:39:17 *** Ethereal_Whisper has joined #openttd 21:39:32 <andythenorth> oh and I might have to stuff the dwords :P 21:39:37 <andythenorth> just like old times 21:57:53 <frosch123> https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/roadtiledesc.png <- so many lines :p 21:59:26 <Wolf01> +1 22:01:31 <frosch123> road vehicle property 05 ? 22:01:48 <frosch123> would be the same number of for trains 22:03:21 <frosch123> did someone already check whether road compatibility works the same as for railtypes? 22:03:39 <frosch123> is railtype compatibility transitive? 22:04:29 <frosch123> so, if off-road vehicles could run on town roads, and normal vehicles could run on highway, would that imply that off-road vehicles could run on highways? 22:07:28 *** Defaultti has quit IRC 22:08:15 <Rubidium> but isn't normal road like the universal railtype? 22:08:47 <frosch123> venice road is pretty much incompatible to everything 22:09:15 <frosch123> anyway, looks like railtype poweredness is not transitive, so the same applies to roads 22:09:47 <andythenorth> type compatibility is always nuts :D 22:10:00 <andythenorth> the only way I could make sense of it in a grf was… 22:10:12 <andythenorth> …types aren’t compatible, except for el-[type] 22:11:23 *** Defaultti has joined #openttd 22:13:09 <Wolf01> Anything that can run on normal road could also run on any other road-like type, the inverse is not entirely true 22:13:39 <Wolf01> A truck should be able to run on dirt road too 22:14:30 <Wolf01> The problem might be if you define a tram type to be like a road 22:14:38 <frosch123> there was a story about some garbage truck driver, who get stuck in the middle of some forest 22:15:54 <frosch123> apparently he had an rendezvous during working hours in his "company car" and took a detour :) 22:17:33 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 22:18:57 *** aard has joined #openttd 22:23:08 *** aard_ has joined #openttd 22:23:40 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 22:24:13 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 22:27:07 <Eddi|zuHause> anyone ever wonder why germans sleep "out" and english sleep "in"? 22:27:37 <Wolf01> ? 22:28:09 <Eddi|zuHause> the name for when you start your day late 22:28:35 <Wolf01> I prefer oversleep 22:28:52 <Eddi|zuHause> that's when you didn't intend to... 22:29:14 <Wolf01> Then lazy 22:29:21 *** aard has quit IRC 22:29:25 <Eddi|zuHause> that's... always :p 22:30:24 <Wolf01> I had the habit to really wake up only after drinking the coffee at work, at least 1 hour after starting from home 22:31:45 <Eddi|zuHause> that's probably the opposite of "sleeping in" 22:32:28 *** aard_ has quit IRC 22:51:09 <Wolf01> Eddi|zuHause, do you think urban games will release another patch for TF or they will just make TF2 with the fixes? 22:51:30 <goodger> they already did that 22:51:57 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure there will be fixes for about a year after release 22:52:13 <Eddi|zuHause> and then they're probably working on the next thing 22:53:03 <Wolf01> The last patch was really needed, but I still have those annoying performance drop for no reason at all :( 22:54:40 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a bit early to lose hope, i think... 22:54:42 *** plp has quit IRC 22:54:51 <Eddi|zuHause> these types of fixes take some time 23:08:28 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 23:18:25 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd 23:23:56 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 23:26:49 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 23:34:44 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 23:37:13 *** Progman has quit IRC