Log for #openttd on 15th December 2016:
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00:27:19  <Eddi|zuHause> afair it should be openttd-related, and have an open-source license
00:28:23  <drac_boy> hm well latter is probably easy .. as for former, I guess anything that doesn't depend on the few ttdxp-only game features probably could also fall under that too? :)
00:28:29  <drac_boy> thanks anyhow
00:28:38  <drac_boy> <was just curious about it after all
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00:31:53  <chomwitt2> aloxa
00:31:59  <chomwitt2> hi drac_boy
00:32:06  <chomwitt2> you too
00:32:42  <chomwitt2> yep from greece
00:32:48  <chomwitt2> you?
00:33:35  <drac_boy> connection issues? :) and I'm from canada .. was just curious when I saw *.gr
00:34:14  <drac_boy> chomwitt and what do you think of your own country btw? considering that they've been in a lengthy bailout talk last I read any international news :-/
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00:41:41  <drac_boy> anyway going off here sorry :-s
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01:02:18  <lorran78> hello all
01:03:14  <lorran78> can someone help me to make a grf with nml, i have already modify pnml but it seems i must use make to do it... and i don't know how
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01:10:19  <chomwitt4> well
01:11:24  <chomwitt4> i think my country is in a 'economical fire zone' between EU-bank-elits and USA-IMF elits
01:11:51  <Eddi|zuHause> could be worse...
01:11:56  <Eddi|zuHause> you could be in aleppo
01:12:08  <chomwitt4> sure.
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01:15:28  <chomwitt> that stinks
01:15:38  <chomwitt> but i think citizens from russia and usa should go there first
01:15:49  <chomwitt> i mean in aleppo
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01:17:17  <lorran78> noone can help me? :(
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09:37:34  <Wolf01> o/
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09:51:16  <Wolf01> o/
09:56:29  <crem> \o
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10:07:36  <Alberth> moin
10:18:48  <V453000> "first impressions" :D
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11:18:25  <Wolf01> Also I have some first impressions... I tried the new bricklink software and I ragequit after 3 minutes of not being able to do the most basic things
11:32:40  <V453000> shit brix?
11:32:51  <Wolf01> Shit lack of features
11:34:16  <Wolf01> For example: no multiple selection in the viewport with shift/ctrl, you need to do it in the brick list, with drag&drop you can select multiple parts, but in the middle of a creation is a PITA
11:34:42  <Wolf01> Also pan and rotation buttons for camera are inverted
11:34:51  <Wolf01> Which bothers me a lot
11:49:20  <Wolf01> Yahoo! Another security breach at Yahoo!
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12:15:58  <Alkel_U3> with md5-hashed passwords!
12:16:32  <Alkel_U3> I hope they're salted, at least
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12:29:58  <Wolf01> Salted, I don't think, maybe they should ask some to dota/lol comunity
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14:41:04  <supermop> yo
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15:35:59  <Alberth> hola
15:36:00  <Wolf01> o/
15:39:38  <frosch123> moi
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16:02:48  <andythenorth> o/
16:02:51  <Wolf01> o/
16:03:09  <andythenorth> quak also
16:04:43  <Alberth> o/
16:04:56  <frosch123> lo
16:08:24  <andythenorth> what’s next? o_O
16:09:02  <frosch123> company christmas party
16:09:07  <Alberth> base metals from bulk terminal isn't very useful is it? 54t/month while enhanced :)
16:09:07  <andythenorth> fair
16:09:25  <andythenorth> Alberth: sounds rubbish :)
16:09:37  <andythenorth> I did adjust production upwards for that
16:09:42  <Wolf01> Convert them into 54t of rare earths
16:10:11  <andythenorth>
16:10:11  <Alberth> hmm, need new version then :)
16:10:22  <andythenorth> currently FIRS is a mess
16:10:32  <andythenorth> due to attempt to improve industry text
16:10:38  <andythenorth> which is big fail
16:10:49  <Alberth> :(
16:11:02  <andythenorth> “and that’s why we should all use feature branches"
16:11:10  <Alberth> +1
16:11:37  <Alberth> I usually make a new hg repo for each branch :)
16:12:20  <Alberth> texts in my version are a mess too
16:12:56  <Alberth> some industries have rates of cargos they don't even accept :p
16:13:34  <frosch123> Alberth: i hope you mean hg clone :)
16:13:59  <andythenorth> it was the incorrect cargos that I set out to fix :)
16:14:09  <andythenorth> but this time, automation has not paid off
16:16:21  <Alberth> frosch123: ha, yes indeed :)
16:18:19  <Alberth> text stack isn't co-operating?
16:18:26  <andythenorth> it has a bug
16:19:11  <Alberth> :O
16:19:13  <andythenorth> and not enough slots
16:19:55  <andythenorth> CARGO_LONG is not rendered correctly for newgrf cargos
16:20:32  <andythenorth> [at least, I think that’s what’s happening]
16:21:07  <Wolf01> Just published
16:21:14  <frosch123> it only happens for stuff that is not measured in volume on weight :)
16:21:39  <Wolf01> It's too big to keep it local and might need future merges
16:21:53  <frosch123> i.e. those with custom "piece" texts
16:22:47  <frosch123> Alberth: the culprit is passing parameters via global variables and then using recursion :)
16:25:05  <Alberth> joy :p
16:25:37  <Wolf01> I always liked how easily things could get out of hands with recursion
16:26:57  <Alberth> you should always recurse towards the simpler case :p
16:27:35  <Wolf01> Oh, you don't know me, I could make it implode even with sum 1 until gets to 10
16:27:36  <Alberth> biggest problem I find are these language implementations that assumes a stack level of 1000 is enough :p
16:29:21  <Wolf01> I only found that problem on PHP with rendering my implementation of web forms, but that was function nesting... I then switched to a queue with function nesting of 4
16:30:25  <Wolf01> In .NET I'm grateful when it finds about recursion, so I don't have to kill projects by myself, maybe losing something important :P
16:30:33  <Alberth> function nesting is the usual problem, both Java and Python don't like 1000 nested function calls
16:30:56  <Alberth> Python is fixable by a setting
16:30:59  <andythenorth> recursion is weird :)
16:31:08  <andythenorth> I know it’s a valid thing to walk up trees but eh
16:32:05  <andythenorth> it’s voodoo
16:32:18  <Alberth> yes, it requires a mind leap to understand them
16:33:00  <Alberth> ie assume the function exists and works, while you're still writing it :p
16:33:31  <Wolf01> Like when you switched from linear spaghetti code to objects oriented... I had a bad time when I had to learn that
16:33:31  <supermop> coold
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16:35:32  <andythenorth> 10: goto 10
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16:38:08  <Wolf01> I started with basic, the amstrad one, then assembly and qbasic, then visualbasic :P
16:38:54  <Alberth> oh, I did some qbasic too, at the Atari ST
16:39:35  <Alberth> lots of fun with 68K assembly programming too
16:39:57  <Wolf01> I was on Z80 :P
16:40:08  <Alberth> :o
16:40:19  <Alberth> I started at a 6502
16:40:55  <Wolf01> @school, I was one of the best assembly programmers of the class
16:42:01  <Wolf01> Ok, we were in 4 which followed that, all the others weren't so interested and just aggregate to get good votes
16:43:01  <Alberth> Hmm, yeah, I did get a course with that too, at a 6809, but I had seen everything already, except a professional assembler :p
16:43:17  <Wolf01> :)
16:43:58  <Alberth> Implementing your own assembler was quite feasible too, at the time
16:44:19  <Wolf01> We also used a lot a Siemens S5 plc
16:44:39  * andythenorth should do some newgrf thing
16:44:39  <Alberth> Never programmed a real one
16:44:44  <andythenorth> but eh I’ve lost my glasses :P
16:44:51  <andythenorth> I’ve become my grandparents
16:44:57  <Wolf01> :D
16:45:34  <andythenorth> I think I’m going to put roadtypes right into road hog, and see how many kittens die
16:45:37  <V453000> do you even automate?
16:45:51  <Wolf01> At least you aren't Philip J Fry... which is his own granddad :P (futurama)
16:46:17  <Alberth> :D
16:46:26  <andythenorth> V453000: automating dying kittens? o_O
16:47:14  <Wolf01> He's too used to automation :P
16:47:38  <Wolf01> What did you automate lately, V?
16:47:38  <frosch123> andythenorth: feature branches? :p
16:48:02  <andythenorth> for road hog?
16:48:05  <andythenorth> probably
16:48:17  <frosch123> i only saw some pattern :p
16:48:47  <V453000> Wolf01: EVERYTHING
16:48:56  <V453000> still working on rails, they are automated AS FUCK
16:49:01  <andythenorth> AUTOMATE YOURSELF
16:49:01  <Wolf01> Nice
16:49:06  <andythenorth> THEN YOU GO FASTER
16:49:06  <V453000> apart from that, red circuits, blue circuits, you know... :P
16:49:28  <andythenorth> what should FIRS industry window say then?
16:49:37  <Wolf01> I'm only expecting a change on the recipes to blow up what I've automated so far :D
16:50:03  <andythenorth> “Coal: required; Iron Ore: delivered within last 3 months; Stone: required;  Industry is producing wastefully”
16:50:07  <andythenorth> ???
16:50:49  <andythenorth> “Fruit: delivered within last 3 months; Grain: optional; Manufacturing Supplies: required; Industry is producing wastefully”
16:51:08  <supermop> the grain makes it efficient?
16:51:13  <V453000> it's just usually cost and time changes Wolf01
16:51:22  <V453000> and science packs are totally different obviously
16:51:33  <andythenorth> supermop: nope, not for brewery, it’s fruit + mnsp or grain + mnsp
16:51:35  <V453000> and old boilers migrate into don't work at all
16:51:37  <supermop> other than lambic usually you make wine or beer, not both
16:51:38  <V453000> and ... :)
16:51:43  <Wolf01> Science packs aren't a problem right now, I just set up a basic industry
16:52:01  <Wolf01> Even times aren't a problem, I'm fan of "keep belts full"
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16:52:09  <supermop> making both in one building probably hurts efficiency, not helps
16:52:10  <V453000> then no big difference
16:52:28  <supermop> and hinders the brand marketing?
16:54:10  <Wolf01> Bah, I'm not in the mood of doing something useful today :(
16:54:15  <andythenorth> me neither
16:54:23  <andythenorth> I don’t even have an ottd game
16:54:38  <andythenorth> and my kids won’t let me watch YT series without them
16:54:52  * andythenorth has been watching Highway Thru Hell
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16:56:12  <supermop> andythenorth: do a puzzle
16:56:25  <andythenorth> ha
16:57:00  <supermop> i'm making molds to cast a version of this game from my childhood out of concrete blocks:
16:57:01  <supermop>
16:57:17  <supermop> to give to my brother
16:57:29  <Wolf01> :O cool
16:58:02  <supermop> everyone getting concrete stuff this year because i still have like 5KG of cement sitting in my apartment to use up
16:58:14  <Wolf01> XD
16:58:52  <supermop> 10 kg was smallest i could buy, when i had to make some little centerpiece things for my wedding in the summer
16:59:11  <supermop> and now i'm tired of the half full box sitting around
17:00:23  <Wolf01> At least you do something for xmas, I'll go rogue (as rogue wolf)
17:00:23  <supermop> my dad is getting a flowerpot shaped like the cooling tower of a power plant he worked on in the 70s
17:01:22  <supermop> wife isn't getting concrete because she'd see me pouring it in the kitchen and ruin the surpriese
17:01:26  <Eddi|zuHause> a rotational hyperboloid?
17:01:47  <V453000> that's nice supermop :D
17:01:59  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: more or less, this one is much thinner at top edge than base
17:02:12  <V453000> once I was at a big road construction site in Slovakia, and I brought back a candle lantern made of concrete to my wife, was quite fitting :D
17:02:37  <supermop> so imagine the hyperbola rotated around a line at a slight angle
17:03:40  <supermop> this one also has a wide circular wall around the bottom rather than the usual open sides, which is perfect fitting for the saucer beneath the flowerpot
17:04:07  <supermop> and is at at 1-unit plant with only one tower, so i don't feel cheap making only one
17:04:17  <supermop> V453000: heavy thing to carry back?
17:04:29  <V453000> was going by car, didn't give fuck
17:04:53  <V453000> had so much video recording hardware with us that one lantern disappeared in it
17:04:58  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: my dad was a structural engineer overseeing construction of the cooling tower so it's a good fit
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17:05:44  <supermop> V453000: if i have enough left over i want to make candlesticks shaped like tetrapods
17:07:33  <V453000> fuck is that
17:07:39  <V453000> 4 legged candle stuff or
17:07:51  <supermop> 3d printing the 10 part mold is expensive though
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17:08:22  <supermop> V453000:
17:08:56  <supermop> one of those with spike and hole on one leg to stick a tall candle on
17:08:59  <Eddi|zuHause> how does that take 10 parts?
17:09:01  <Wolf01> Even the first google image
17:10:32  <Wolf01> plushies one
17:11:23  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: the cooling tower. 6 segments for outside, 1 for top of inside, one for middle of inside above where the 'floor' will go, one for inside below the floor, and then one to cast the saucer
17:11:55  <supermop> Wolf01: those are cute
17:12:25  <supermop> my brother is hydrological civil engineer so he might like those
17:13:13  <supermop> tetrapod you can make with a simple 4 part mold of slightly complex 2 part mold
17:13:18  <supermop> or
17:14:11  <V453000> alright supermop :)
17:17:52  <Wolf01> Use this, supermop
17:18:15  <supermop> that for sale?
17:18:22  <Wolf01> I think not :P
17:18:32  <supermop> i think that might take more than 5kg of cement
17:19:16  <supermop> a breakwater of 100 pillow tetrapods would be nice
17:19:29  <andythenorth>
17:19:47  <andythenorth> 0USD approx, for a 2t
17:19:56  <supermop> sounds reasonable
17:20:00  <V453000> they sell literally everywhere there
17:20:11  <andythenorth> they have 7k 19t units in stock
17:20:18  <V453000> ._.
17:20:18  <andythenorth> only 50
17:20:20  <andythenorth> per unit
17:20:26  <supermop> im sure my brother wants a 2t concrete block in his living room
17:20:29  <andythenorth> mumbai
17:20:35  <andythenorth> get a shipping quote
17:20:38  <supermop> downstairs neighbors might not tho
17:21:21  <supermop> because it will end up in their living room, if only passing through to the basement
17:21:44  <supermop> andythenorth: squid
17:21:46  <supermop>
17:21:59  <supermop> only a dollar
17:23:07  <andythenorth> I’ll have 2
17:23:51  <andythenorth> bbl
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17:25:16  <supermop> i can move to brooklyn and commute by barge
17:27:31  <supermop> or just live on the barge i guess
17:28:20  <supermop> anyone need to launch an invasion?
17:28:22  <supermop>
17:35:45  <Wolf01> O_o
17:36:40  <V453000> min order 1 units
17:36:41  <V453000> phew
17:36:44  <V453000> didn't want two
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17:39:38  <supermop> wearing a suit to work today because office so chilly
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18:06:24  <_dp_> Hi! Are there any newgrfs with Christmas-themed stuff?)
18:06:41  <_dp_> Except toyland :p
18:07:08  <Wolf01> Just play toyland
18:07:28  <V453000> I think there is some shit
18:07:32  <V453000> like christmas tree newobjects
18:07:39  <Eddi|zuHause> there's some christmas trees
18:07:51  <Eddi|zuHause> ... and toyland
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18:21:33  <Alkel_U3> Oh yes, chritmas! Time to play Tyrian :-)
18:22:14  <Wolf01> Shit, I almost forgot
18:22:16  <Wolf01> :D
18:22:35  <Eddi|zuHause> what's that?
18:22:56  <Wolf01> Best. Arcade. Ever.
18:23:15  <Alkel_U3> a pretty legendary-level shoot-em-up from around 1995
18:23:25  <Wolf01> free on gog
18:23:33  <Alkel_U3> Christmas detected. Activate Christmas? Y/N
18:23:37  <Wolf01> :D
18:24:21  <Wolf01> BTW I'm hypnotized now
18:24:42  <Alkel_U3> yes, gog version prefered, opentyrian may be all native and shit but it's clone of Tyrian 2, not 2k. Also missing stuff like Destruct.
18:24:58  <Wolf01> Good old destruct
18:25:13  <Wolf01> Btw got to go
18:27:23  <Eddi|zuHause> blah... gog demanding some emailed code, email not arriving...
18:29:14  <Alkel_U3> it's also downloadable from... well, lots of sites like here , but gog's download already comes neatly prepackaged with dosbox
18:29:58  <Alkel_U3> if you already have system-nstalled dosbox, the bare dos package will be more convenient, though
18:30:29  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i know how gog works...
18:31:13  <Alkel_U3> oh, sorry, I forgot I'm not dealing with not-computer-people
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18:39:55  <_dp_> Found some xmas trees but none of them are on bananas :(
18:42:48  <Alberth> andy, why is big bertha slower than its predecessor?
18:43:05  <andythenorth> it’s for heavy hauling up hills
18:43:22  <Alberth> just use two predecssors :p
18:43:23  <andythenorth> I’m never sure about that kind of game balance
18:43:44  <andythenorth> seems that the ideal mix is: fast pax, powerful freight, small branchline
18:43:50  <andythenorth> anything else never quite fits eh
18:44:01  <andythenorth> big bertha is one of those
18:44:05  <andythenorth> that never fits
18:44:31  <Alberth> equally fast would work, then you have the bigger pulling power
18:44:45  <andythenorth> there’s another replacement coming up
18:45:08  <andythenorth> 1905 or so
18:45:18  <Alberth> but 88km vs 72km is a lot
18:45:32  <Alberth> ie you basically need all-hill for it to work
18:45:33  <andythenorth> yes, I am not convinced it makes any sense
18:45:57  <Alberth> steel wagon at 65km also makes no sense
18:46:07  <andythenorth> 'realism'
18:46:12  <andythenorth> but yeah
18:46:13  <Alberth> especially as there is an alternative at 104km or so
18:46:27  <andythenorth> you get very high capacity per tile on them
18:46:31  <andythenorth> in theory
18:46:35  <Alberth> only 20t vs 30t, but length is not so much an issue
18:46:46  <andythenorth> ah, the next gen is much bigger
18:46:52  <andythenorth> that small one is a bit crippled
18:47:07  <Alberth> in 1904 now :)
18:47:09  <andythenorth> I think these are valid criticisms though
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18:47:46  <andythenorth> the only objection I have is that sets seem better when they have some quirks
18:48:30  <Alberth> weel, don't know how it'll work out of I keep the 0-6-0 longer, reliability may kill its use :p
18:48:39  * peter1139 ponders starting a dbsetxl game
18:48:44  <peter1139> assuming that still works
18:48:45  <andythenorth> I kept some of mine until about 1940
18:48:51  <andythenorth> but I have breakdowns off
18:49:21  <Alberth> peter1139: starting may be the easy part, playing and finishing is harder :)
18:49:32  <andythenorth> hmm
18:49:50  <andythenorth> I made the supplies cars 104km, because otherwise they wouldn’t get used
18:50:45  <Alberth> true
18:50:53  <Alberth> they look nice imho
18:50:58  <peter1139> yeah i miss playing ottd on a crt
18:51:03  <peter1139> 800x600 was lucious
18:55:28  <_dp_> somehow opengfx mars + toyland is the closest I got to xmas so far...
18:55:29  <andythenorth> wasn’t it
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18:55:41  <andythenorth> 2x zoom is good, but makes some things a pain in the arse
18:56:02  <_dp_> cacti and baobabs aren't exactly xmas trees though %)
19:00:33  <andythenorth> Alberth: this looks like 104km eh? :P
19:03:48  <Alberth> 88 would be fine too, ie the speed of 0-6-0
19:04:11  <andythenorth> I might change it
19:04:30  <andythenorth> I only use them on short runs, but they look good
19:04:38  <andythenorth> Steeltown provides many more reasons to use them
19:05:27  <Alberth> yeah, they looked so good, but someone moved the shipyard a long way away from the factory :p
19:07:12  <andythenorth> do you have Iron Horse from bananas or bundles?
19:08:22  <Alberth> it says 1.9.1, so likely bananas
19:12:15  <supermop> the glowing hot metal wagons?
19:12:35  <supermop> i basically use them like a conveyor
19:13:07  <supermop> when the metal making and metal processing industries are close enough to think of as one industry campus
19:13:40  <supermop> of course why they pay me to move the metal around on their own property is a different question
19:13:58  <andythenorth> yeah I do that, but eh, I can provide some trams for that
19:14:41  <andythenorth>
19:14:52  <supermop> andythenorth: sometimes branching rail spurs look better around industrial grounds
19:15:13  <andythenorth> Alberth:
19:15:27  <andythenorth> bundles will build that, not sure if it’s save-game safe, usually mostly is
19:15:47  <andythenorth> not sure what to do about the Bertha
19:15:53  <andythenorth> it doesn’t really fit eh
19:16:12  <supermop> bump the speed, or leave it as a toy
19:16:54  <andythenorth> those metal cars are a bit fast
19:17:01  <andythenorth> they do need a bit of a limit
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19:20:18  <andythenorth> sorted
19:24:35  <Alberth> not sure how long I'll continue my current game, a lot of stuff seems done
19:24:51  <Alberth> ignoring all the food :p
19:25:15  <andythenorth> how long did you play?
19:25:49  <andythenorth> got a screenshot of your map (or minimap)?
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19:38:56  <supermop> i just looked dumb as hell in front of my wife
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19:39:30  <supermop> bye expressing surprise that hexagon width is twice edge length
19:41:15  <supermop> which somehow i never realized as obvious in 20+ years of doing trigonometry and 30+years
19:41:24  <supermop> of liking hexagons
19:42:25  <supermop> also looked dumb typing 'bye' instead of 'by' just now....
19:43:25  <Alberth> andythenorth:
19:43:26  <supermop> damnit
19:44:23  <Alberth>
19:44:33  <supermop> Alberth: grass looks too green to be amongst all that busy steelmaking activity
19:44:43  <supermop> plants should be dead and brown
19:44:59  <Alberth> wrong climate perhaps :p
19:45:28  <Alberth> started around 1880, I think, first save is 1885
19:47:59  <supermop> andy should make a steeltown climate grf: all regular land is bare dirt
19:48:22  <supermop> instead of snow, houses get a layer of coal soot
19:51:32  <Alberth> steel goes near the north-west edge of the map, a loong way :p
19:53:49  <Alberth> I should probably play the "enhanced" or "gung ho" game to make production go through the roof
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19:58:16  <Alberth>  bulk terminal production is weird: bring steel to the ship yard across the water, then bring marine supplies back by ship to the bulk terminal :)
20:03:24  <andythenorth> it is weird isn’t it
20:03:59  <andythenorth> I couldn’t get enough supplies in my game to get many gung-ho primaries or ports
20:04:13  <andythenorth> the chain quite aggressively consumes inputs
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20:04:59  <drac_boy> hi grf players/makers? ;) heh
20:05:05  <andythenorth> Alberth: I should make a ship-carrying ship
20:06:26  <drac_boy> andy well that might not be too far off
20:06:46  <drac_boy> given that you already have planes carrying planes (abit the latter are usually in partial nature)
20:08:14  <andythenorth> Alberth:
20:08:58  <supermop> and that is a shipS carrying ship
20:09:16  <andythenorth>
20:09:40  <supermop> that must be a minimum order from one of those ali baba shipyards i found
20:09:52  <andythenorth> yup
20:10:09  <andythenorth> hmm, too many projects at once :|
20:10:23  <supermop> are marine supplies supposed to be ships?
20:10:33  <andythenorth> ships, oil rigs, docks
20:10:36  <andythenorth> etc
20:10:48  <andythenorth> kind of vague
20:11:13  <supermop> oooh
20:11:18  <andythenorth>
20:11:44  <supermop> replace oil rig with offshore oil reserve, and you have to deliver rigs to it?
20:11:57  <Alkel_U3> that's a shipping ship, shipping shipping ships
20:13:15  <supermop> andythenorth: metal is currently unused???
20:13:47  <andythenorth> not sure why
20:13:52  <andythenorth> looking at that now
20:13:56  <andythenorth> it’s a bug
20:14:08  <andythenorth> supermop: ‘oil field’ :P
20:20:09  <__ln__> does anyone consider himself as currently being in germany and having a PS3?
20:22:14  <drac_boy> just asking but what you curious about re the deutsch ps3?
20:22:18  <Alberth> hmm, 2 sand quarries on top of the same mountain, maybe it's completely made of sand :p
20:23:04  <andythenorth> nah, only the bits where the quarries are
20:23:12  <andythenorth> geology layer for the map? o_O
20:23:32  <andythenorth> can’t terraform some parts, can’t build in others (quicksand)
20:25:11  <supermop> bogs
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20:25:51  <supermop> coal, oil, and gas likely to be found in certain formations could be interesting
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20:26:10  <Alkel_U3> I miss industry areas like in RRT2 - some allow coal mines and logging camps or bauxite mines, some ports or kinds of localized secondaries... Could such thing be achieved through a gamescript on scenarios?
20:26:40  <andythenorth> gamescript, but it has very limited ability to work with newgrf
20:26:53  <drac_boy> heh you still play RT2 alkel?
20:27:14  <supermop> maybe good for a designing  a scenario that starts in 1700 - you can designate areas that bauxite will likely be discovered in the 1900s without having to place useless weird 18th C bauxite mines
20:27:23  <andythenorth> newgrf could do ‘areas’ but it would be flakey
20:27:43  <supermop> you could have little nuclear industries
20:28:12  <Alkel_U3> Not very much anymore but I've recently installed it into wine and found it works, so I'll probaly give it another go for nostalgia's sake :-)
20:28:17  <supermop> like a tiny coal outcropping that produces tiny amounts of coal from year 0, and never goes away
20:28:32  <supermop> but then coal mines spawn around it over the years
20:28:43  <__ln__> drac_boy: some other EU country may do as well.... what i'm interested in is whether Amazon Prime Video or something close to that name is available in the menus or in the store.
20:29:48  <supermop> they you could make the real industries much more likely to close
20:30:03  <supermop> because there is a good chance another will open nearby
20:30:23  <drac_boy> alkel oh..well I have RT2 Gold that I play from time to time anyhow (it used to be RT2+expansion for some time but then as I eventually needed to get the poptop-published version which would run on my main computers by the time I ended up finding a Gold set from someone else to trade with instead
20:31:08  <drac_boy> the Gold isn't that different from vanilla+expansion .. other than for extra maps/etc tho
20:31:43  <Alkel_U3> I think I bought platinum, after a year or two of playing the basic+TSC
20:32:14  <Alkel_U3> also, just scenarios, most good stuff was in the TSC already
20:32:44  <Alkel_U3> also I don't know about music - the CD I bought had pretty great soundtrack
20:35:56  <drac_boy> alkel heh well anyway this is what mine looks like basically except for the stupid magazine label middle-bottom
20:39:24  <Alkel_U3> I had somethig like this I think, but it was CZ version which I didn't like too much
20:39:42  <drac_boy> alkel mind you the one very minor thing that still sometimes annoys me is how on some maps you can't build separate tracks, it has to be part of the existing one somewhere
20:40:05  <drac_boy> I'm guessing yours is windows copy right? :)
20:40:53  <Alkel_U3> which is funny because the long option dialogues of the game was initially what booted me to actually learn english properly
20:41:18  <Alkel_U3> yeah, I didn't know linux port existed until recently
20:41:36  <Alkel_U3> well, those maps are fine, part of the challenge :P
20:42:40  <Alkel_U3> I only switched to linux about 3 years ago so I idn't really bother finding out what rare occurances might be playable on different platforms
20:43:53  <drac_boy> alkel well I prefer to build individual lines almost all the times (except where eg one steel mill has 2-3 different routes from a single station) ;-)
20:44:24  <Alkel_U3> I love to connect _everything_ :P
20:44:44  <Alkel_U3> that applies to TT, too
20:44:46  <drac_boy> alkel well if I'm going to be able to connect things I need to be able to build for profit first and that means no stupid empty line doing nothing
20:44:52  <drac_boy> ;)
20:45:08  <Alkel_U3> it can be managed, usually
20:49:42  <drac_boy> alkel mind you one of the few locomotives I use a lot is the EE 3/3 as its suitable for the shunting of 1-3 wagons back n forth over a non-mountain link
20:49:51  <drac_boy> lot of the times they keep finding themself on grains but go figure with that heh
20:50:31  <drac_boy> single line with no bridge, the cheapest station (with servicing at only one of the two ends), and well a cheap little long-term low-cost elec .. what can I say heh
20:51:28  <drac_boy> mind you I never ever used any of the big simple articulated's as they're more costly and less reliable than the basic GP9/etc tho
20:53:35  <drac_boy> alkel oh yeah I sometimes have the basic station in middle of line and all I ever add to it is the sanding tower .. talk about hating watching a train suddenly come down to a slow crawl because it ran out of sand at the wrong time :->
20:54:46  <drac_boy> alkel but anyway just curious, any particular train grf you like yet?
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20:57:23  <Alkel_U3> I like trains.
20:57:37  <supermop> andythenorth: worst practices Hog the way to go?
20:58:24  <Alkel_U3> I used to run on DB set, then UKRS, then Pineapple, now Iron Horse looks appealing to me
20:58:57  <Alkel_U3> I grew kinda tired of the bad features :P
20:59:16  <drac_boy> alkel heh .. I still like dbsetxl at times .. kinda just couldn't be bothered with ukrs for time being due to several deficts in it .. and still have pineapple on some tropic maps here as well
20:59:25  <drac_boy> as for iron horse umm no comment yet :)
21:03:43  <drac_boy> alkel oh yeah I got the bunch of japan grfs once in a while (yeah the one where everything matches together)
21:04:26  <Alkel_U3> I'm kinda busy with factorio lately :-)
21:05:21  <drac_boy> heh :)
21:05:35  <Alkel_U3> oh, and fixing my godforsaken, &#@!§!! bike
21:06:20  <Alkel_U3> it became ridable today. Again. Here's hoping it will stay that way for at least a few months
21:06:40  <drac_boy> alkel well japan train is kinda interesting especially as you have the two different grouping of passengers .. neverminding mixing in the Kiha's or local (small loco) trains
21:07:36  <drac_boy> heh bike sounds old?
21:08:12  <Alkel_U3> bike is a new-ish but cheap foldable
21:08:18  <drac_boy> oh :)
21:08:39  <Alkel_U3> I've replaced most original parts by now, so its value has about doubled
21:09:29  <Alkel_U3> frame and front wheels are original, so is the seat
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21:10:01  <Alkel_U3> well, rear brake arms are, too
21:10:38  <Alkel_U3> oh, and the right crank
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21:14:03  <andythenorth> such Horse
21:14:20  <andythenorth> supermop: Bad Hog? o_O
21:15:24  <drac_boy> heh?
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21:22:21  <drac_boy> alkel mind you I'm also slowly working on a marklin layout too (somewhat mild size and best fun of all it has a wye, turntable, and one reverse loop .. all these sort of things that you just can't safely do with dc trains ;)
21:22:32  <drac_boy> heh
21:22:46  * drac_boy notes it also has one E94 too, bit costly big locomotive
21:28:47  <Alkel_U3> The only engine I couln't find a niche for was the Brenner
21:28:57  <drac_boy> brenner?
21:30:46  <Alkel_U3> from TSC expansion - the lategame universal loco that's about as fast as early high speed trains but handles freight and grades well. Also cost a shitton and some more to fuel and maintain
21:31:42  <drac_boy> oh dunno then sorry :)
21:37:11  <drac_boy> alkel on the other hand this from FS makes me thinking a bit of the "cow-calf" emd units in usa :)
21:37:40  <drac_boy> if you need to ask what the emd one was ;)
21:39:11  <Alkel_U3> sorry, can't click on links, my mmouse is obstructed ATM
21:40:25  <Alkel_U3> I'm wrestling with window paints and only place that remained free is the keyboard
21:42:23  <andythenorth> hmm
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21:43:35  <drac_boy> wonder what andy must be doing now heh
21:44:25  <supermop> probably going to bed
21:46:36  <drac_boy> anyway have fun supermop and alkel I'm going off re paperworks
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21:50:16  <__ln__> hmm, clearly a game inspired by TTD, yet quite different and a different focus and goal:
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21:53:51  <supermop> the little HST is cute
21:57:39  <Redirect_Left> I've played that, it's incredibly tedious.
21:59:34  <supermop> i got really excited when the people in here told be about shunting puzzles
22:00:23  <supermop> but once i started researching what type of layout i'd build, i realized that operating it would be devastatingly tedious
22:00:56  <Alkel_U3> shunting puzzles? Sounds kinda like A-Train
22:01:29  <Alkel_U3> I had to reboot in dos mode when I wanted to play it on W98 :-)
22:01:47  <supermop> its a model train layout with a bunch of switches
22:02:10  <supermop> and you have to move certain wagons to certain sidings with limited space
22:02:32  <supermop> you you are constantly decoupling wagons
22:03:16  <supermop> if i were to build a bigger layout i might make one yard on it a puzzle layout in case i ever felt like it
22:04:01  <supermop> but living in manhattan, anything more than 4" of track for my class 08 to stand on is out of the question
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23:41:19  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: so it's basically the towers of hanoi?
23:41:36  <supermop> hm?
23:42:41  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: the game where you have one pile of disks and have to move it from one stack to another, one by one, but never putting a larger disk onto a smaller
23:42:54  <Wolf01> Hanoi
23:43:16  <Wolf01> Oh, didn't read :P
23:43:21  <supermop> haha
23:43:50  <Eddi|zuHause>
23:43:57  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: i guess so? i never built a shunting puzzle because all be trains and track are in some storage bin in my parents house
23:44:13  <Wolf01> Btw, no, you have to do it in less time possible and with less decouplings possible
23:44:34  <Wolf01> No other constraints, afaik
23:44:55  <Eddi|zuHause> by "time" you mean moving operations? or real time?
23:45:03  <Wolf01> Real time
23:45:23  <Wolf01> So you must be quick even on decoupling
23:45:40  <Wolf01> That's why some build automatic decoupling systems
23:45:52  <Wolf01> But they leave out all the fun
23:45:54  <Wolf01> :P
23:46:55  <Wolf01> It also mean that if you make meaningless moving operations you waste time
23:47:44  <supermop> turnouts are sharp though so you cannot drive the locomotive fast without it derailing
23:48:26  <Wolf01> Also since it's model railroad you must take in account the weight (or the lack of weight) of wagons
23:48:55  <Wolf01> Which mean that's really easy to derail even while coupling
23:49:35  <Wolf01> For example you must be a genius doing it with a TT scale
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