Log for #openttd on 17th December 2016:
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00:36:04  <Wolf01> 'night
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09:37:40  <peter1139> that thing then a nuget package targets .net 4.5.2 and you're using .net 4.5
09:37:47  <peter1139> latest and greatest idiots :S
09:42:07  <peter1139> that thing when you look at the source and it is because they are doing $"{nameof(bytes)}"
09:42:25  <peter1139> which effectively results in the same thing as "bytes"
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10:09:07  <Alberth> :p
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10:26:41  <Wolf01> Moin
10:28:16  <peter1139> also turns out they're using classes not in my version of mono, so after fixing that shit it didn't work anyway :p
10:28:19  <peter1139> fecking debian
10:28:32  <Wolf01> Peter aged up again?
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10:38:30  <andythenorth> o/
10:54:48  <Wolf01> o/
11:04:33  <Wolf01> andy :D
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11:13:50  <andythenorth> Wolf01: one for ‘where is cat'
11:16:46  <Wolf01> So far I believe that we did not find a simple, fun and fair solution. Ideas include: large power-up times(annoying and also weakens base defense); simply not allowing turrets to be build near biter bases (makes the player feel cheated); underground anti-turret worms (sugar-coated version of the previous idea). <- V453000, just introduce Dune's worms... so you'll even need to pavement your
11:16:46  <Wolf01> whole base to stay safe XD
11:18:43  <Wolf01> "I believe there is almost always an option to destroy bases without being forced to use turret-creep", yes, there is one very reliable, the ion cannon mod
11:27:23  <Alberth> o/
11:28:38  <Alberth> allow tunneling, with plating to prevent that from being useful :)
11:29:26  <Wolf01> Remembers me about Brotherhood of Nod engineers attack
11:30:15  <Wolf01> Fill up 3-4 underground apcs with engineers and send them in the middle of the enemy base
11:31:02  <Wolf01> That's why I always pavemented my base and make walled traps in the middle of the base for those fuckers :P
11:34:08  <Alberth> para=trooping from the air could work too, hard to defend against
11:34:13  <Alberth> s/=/-/
11:35:09  <Wolf01> You don't para-troop engineers usually, also there are SAM sites or AA guns, underground enemies can't be targeted instead
11:35:29  <Alberth> 1st WW trench warfare in France involved lots of explosives :p
11:35:51  <Alberth> and tunneling
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12:07:24  <frosch123> moin
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13:55:23  <JohnnyWing> Hello. So I'm a longtime player that's just been looking into contributing dev work...Am I right that there's no automated testing (unit tests) setup for the source?
13:55:39  <frosch123> there is somewhat
13:56:00  <JohnnyWing> OK. I come from a java background, the C's easy enough to pick up. What should I be looking at to see this?
13:56:04  <frosch123> you can run "make regression" and it will start ottd, and run same game and ai scripts, which run stuff, and it compares the output
13:56:40  <Wolf01> Which is functional testing and not unit testing
13:56:43  <JohnnyWing> OK. anything that runs at buildtime?
13:56:51  <Wolf01> I tried with unit tests but headers are a total mess
13:56:59  <JohnnyWing> ahh
13:57:10  <JohnnyWing> too much of a mess to mess with, or just a lot of work?
13:57:26  <JohnnyWing> I ask because im a Testing SME with whatI do, and I'm interested in a challenge
13:57:57  <Wolf01> If you want to give it a look, I preferred to avoid it
13:58:21  <JohnnyWing> OK awesome. I'll look into the regression and go from there
13:59:15  <peter1139> yeah it's not very... unitized
14:00:46  <JohnnyWing> If....big if....If someone wanted to make the effort, it sounds like there would likely be refactoring to make it work. Maybe quite a bit from the sounds of it. Is such an effort something that the core team would be interested in having done and supporting?
14:01:33  <JohnnyWing> I know that some projects dont care much about testing... and my goal would be to implement easy testing to enable changes to be made with confidence that they wont break the build
14:01:44  <JohnnyWing> or would that just be too much?
14:01:53  <Alberth> you know the source is > 300K lines?
14:02:16  <Alberth> unit tests are likely to be bigger, I think?
14:02:23  <JohnnyWing> Not much of a concern? Start small? again - would need analysis, unless it's already done
14:02:47  <JohnnyWing> no no, unit breaks them into units, testing the smallest set of logic possible, in isolation from other things
14:03:01  <Alberth> core is very much optimized, not very unit-testable, I think
14:03:29  <JohnnyWing> optimized for... performance, you mean, right?
14:03:36  <Alberth> yes, performance
14:03:52  <peter1139> performance and memory use
14:04:19  <peter1139> it's c++ written by c coders
14:05:00  <Wolf01> In my case it's C++ written by VB/C# coder :P
14:05:16  <JohnnyWing> Lol, I'm sure it's interesting then
14:06:16  <peter1139> have a look
14:06:30  <JohnnyWing> OK. I'm still curious to learn more so I'll do some looking around and see if there's any opportunities that make sense
14:06:33  <peter1139> biggest issue is lots of stuff is intertwined and interdependent
14:06:50  <Alberth> muchos global variables :)
14:06:59  <JohnnyWing> right and that's what I figured and where the refactoring that I mentioned was targeted at.
14:07:38  <JohnnyWing> So, in a nutshell, I take existing legacy enterprise applications that are rather large and refactor them to enable automated testing and CI integration, so that enterprises dont have to be scared to change that legacy code any more.
14:08:00  <JohnnyWing> This sounds like a very similar situation, hence the interest
14:08:13  <JohnnyWing> and I've been playing ttd for 20 yrs, so it just seemed like a good match atm
14:08:14  <JohnnyWing> :)
14:08:51  <Alberth> refactor would be nice, if possible with a new feature :)
14:09:25  <Alberth> as refactor for refactor sake doesn't do much, and takes a lot of time, imho
14:10:05  <JohnnyWing> right...and that's kinda my root question:
14:10:37  <JohnnyWing> is a refactor to enable testing, by (this guy), one of those things that the team thinks is worth it? (again, if this guy does most/all the work)
14:11:11  <Alberth> I don't see the value of unit testing tbh, but that's just me
14:11:21  <Alberth> I do not speak for "the team"
14:11:31  <Alberth> in fact, "the team" doesn't exist
14:12:08  <Alberth> but have a look first
14:14:24  <Alberth> it's fine if you do something else than regular work :)
14:14:46  <JohnnyWing> OK. and that's completely valid opinion. Most of my efforts are spent doing the work so I can show devs the value it provides. That's the fun part.
14:15:42  <Wolf01> You could do some refactoring to better place some functions which are now spread over multiple files or in wrong places, I would start with that
14:15:55  <JohnnyWing> when you say the team doesn't exist....that makes me want to ask for a synopsis of the project? It sounds not very active?
14:16:20  <JohnnyWing> I looked at the roadmap and flyspray and found nothing. No roadmap, very informal, user contribution-based, likely?
14:17:23  <JohnnyWing> @Wolf I'll look in that direction
14:18:01  <peter1139> hmm, did we ever get multistop for docks?
14:18:37  <Wolf01> The cat guy asked me to get into docks after nrt
14:18:51  <peter1139> well i have a partial patch for it already
14:19:49  <Wolf01> Missing the movement part?
14:20:17  <peter1139> iirc it was mostly working
14:20:35  <peter1139> hmm, resizing the ottd window is buggy
14:20:49  <Wolf01> I would like to get into the vehicle movement code to provide some more features in that branch
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14:21:18  <peter1139> how can window resize be buggy? :S
14:21:19  <Wolf01> Roundabouts and ramps for roads, realistic locks, real grf airports
14:21:35  <Wolf01> Bigger road stops
14:21:51  <JohnnyWing> sounds fun
14:22:26  <frosch123> JohnnyWing: development is mostly stalled. main issue seems to be that there are many kind of conflicting features in existence, and every new feature has to account for serval corner cases. but since noone uses all of the conflicting features, noone is interested in caring for the corner cases
14:23:18  <JohnnyWing> ouch. So...scope creep finally took over and is winning...damn
14:23:53  <JohnnyWing> Has there been any efforts to develop a plan to overcome it and make decisions on those things needed to get out of this situation?
14:24:17  <JohnnyWing> sounds like no, its just kinda stopped.
14:24:19  <frosch123> the main effort is to fork and make those features work which you use :)
14:24:34  <JohnnyWing> oi
14:24:35  <JohnnyWing> lol
14:24:55  <JohnnyWing> that kinda makes me sad for the game tho :/
14:25:04  <JohnnyWing> but I get it, dont get me wrong
14:25:05  <frosch123> the main branch is now mostly about extending the add-on format
14:26:24  <JohnnyWing> OK. so really then, theres the engine, then a bunch of mods that plugin to it. Core dev ensures that the mod system works and nothing else break?
14:26:40  <Wolf01> Almost like that
14:26:54  <JohnnyWing> but it sounds like the module that should be like the core logic and such (or default logic), is kinda embedded withint he engine and not yet extracted to a mod style component?
14:26:58  <JohnnyWing> pretty much?
14:28:10  <peter1139> everything is core logic
14:28:32  <SpComb> just forget about OpenTTD and re-implement all of the game logic as a Cities: Skylines mod
14:29:02  <frosch123> SpComb: you mean as a factorio mod
14:29:08  <Wolf01> :D
14:29:12  <JohnnyWing> would be cool to see both
14:30:14  <Eddi|zuHause> just make a factorio mod that runs cities skylines (or vice versa)
14:30:21  <peter1139> to allow multiple docks per station, i need to touch pathfinding, station and ship handling code.
14:30:26  <JohnnyWing> what do you mean that everything is core logic? There should be engine code and business logic separated. They're currently intertwined, yes? Is that what you're saying?
14:31:48  <JohnnyWing> Also, I'm not sure that I saw anything to the effect, but methinks that some post on/near the front page of the dev wiki regarding the current state of developement and the project would be super helpful. A lot of what I'm hearing now conflicts with the impression I got from the wiki
14:31:52  <Eddi|zuHause> separating them only makes sense if they're also developed separately
14:32:55  <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise you're just adding development overhead for no benefit
14:34:04  <peter1139> cool 2 year old patch applies with minimal fixing
14:34:19  <JohnnyWing> separation of concerns and such?
14:34:24  <JohnnyWing> easier changes?
14:34:29  <Wolf01> The problem is that noone knows the entire thing to be the "right one" to write such article, a group of people can do it, but those should be the "core" devs, and I think they don't have enough time or will to do even that work
14:34:52  <JohnnyWing> Wolf - helpful. thanks
14:35:11  <JohnnyWing> but makes me a little more sad
14:35:20  <JohnnyWing> However, I thank all you guys for the work thus far.
14:35:31  <peter1139> tbh i support it
14:35:42  <peter1139> but i don't know where you'd start, what you'd do, what you'd achieve
14:36:08  <Wolf01> As you notice, we aren't so organized, and the project has blown up in these years so it's really big to be handled right now, we do what we can
14:36:09  <JohnnyWing> I played back when it had just started....i've taken 2-5 years off several times but always come back to it. It's amazing to see those years' features come in big chunks like that :)
14:36:23  <JohnnyWing> Understood.
14:36:34  <peter1139> and it is a game. within the core logic there is less of a concept of "this should do exactly this"
14:36:37  <Wolf01> I'd support it too, because refactoring for unit test would mean also more readable code
14:37:02  <Wolf01> *readable = understandable
14:37:29  <JohnnyWing> aye, readable/understandable/maintanable/testable/scalable/etc.
14:37:49  <JohnnyWing> Sounds like the "architect" role has been missing for a while and now it's just big and....big.
14:38:12  <Wolf01> Read it as "crooked house"
14:39:37  <SpComb> JohnnyWing: you also have to know that the source code was originally reverse-engineered from a 1990s game engine written by a single guy in assembler
14:39:46  <Wolf01> For example frosch123 has shown me some things, like we have a function which asserts when there are certain conditions and the same function which shouldn't assert on the same contitions but return false/invalid, as asserts are our current way to intercept weirdness whyle using a functionality
14:39:59  <SpComb> well, I haven't looked at the code for ages, but I would guess that you still see a lot of that in there :)
14:40:40  <Wolf01> One example is "GetRoadBits" which asserts if there is no road, "GetAnyRoadBits" instead returns ROADBITS_NONE
14:40:50  <Wolf01> But they do the same
14:40:57  <JohnnyWing> Sp - yea...I remember that. I always wanted to get involved, but never was smart enough yet.
14:41:11  <JohnnyWing> Gotcha. tons of technical debt & inconsistencies
14:41:17  <Wolf01> I find that really confusing :P
14:41:39  <JohnnyWing> my problem is that when I run into inconsistencies like that, I've got to fix them.
14:41:48  <JohnnyWing> It tends to make my projects pretty big efforts :/
14:41:58  <Wolf01> You should fix them later
14:42:04  <JohnnyWing> but im OCD like that...therefore I'm a code quality guy
14:42:07  <JohnnyWing> lol. yep
14:43:15  <Wolf01> I'm the same type too, I start from changing a light bulb and find myself repairing the car's engine
14:43:21  <JohnnyWing> EXACTLY!
14:43:35  <JohnnyWing> damn that suspect looking wire...
14:45:10  <JohnnyWing> anyways. Does anyone know of a wiki page or category within flyspray or (whatever I need to know) that is a log of things like this technical debt that needs cleaned up? I'd much rather focus on that, even if it's futile, than feature dev/bug fixes.
14:45:24  <JohnnyWing> If there's nothing, I can whip something up and go from there
14:45:59  <Eddi|zuHause> a code quality guy has probably been missing here for a while (*cough*tron*cough*) but at the end, someone has to actually do the work of restructuring the code
14:46:14  <JohnnyWing> :)
14:46:54  <frosch123> JohnnyWing: it's mostly about removing global variables
14:47:08  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think there's a comprehensive list of technical debt, but you probably quickly find some if you prod the right people or read the right forum threads
14:47:38  <Eddi|zuHause> but you'll quickly need to narrow down what area you want to touch
14:47:45  <JohnnyWing> Alrighty. Good info to work from.
14:47:57  <frosch123> JohnnyWing: last week we encountered a bug, where function parameters are passed via global variables, and are then messed up when the function recurses
14:48:07  <JohnnyWing> I'll be around. I'd rather not go off and work in a silo.
14:48:48  <frosch123> <- JohnnyWing: that is a work-around for the bug. the real fix would involve to remove Start/Stop/Rewind/Pause/Resume-TextRefStackUsage
14:49:18  <JohnnyWing> awesome. Is there an issue logged for it?
14:49:31  <frosch123> and to pass it directly to FormatString are calling functions
14:49:39  <JohnnyWing> which leads me to another question, Who's the webmaster(s)?
14:51:19  <Wolf01> Mmmh, I think that transport fever has some incompatibility with whatsapp web
14:51:42  <Wolf01> It starts to drop the framerate only when I open the whatsapp web page
14:51:58  <Wolf01> I could do anything else and works like a charm
14:56:34  <frosch123> JohnnyWing: <- use that newgrf to start a game. <- the bug is that that 53250 should be a 8
14:56:56  <JohnnyWing> @frosch Fantastic. ty
14:58:07  <JohnnyWing> I've added a question to the Development FAQ asking what the state of the project is. I don't want to mix words, so I ask anyone willing to contribute to it to drop an update -
14:58:25  <frosch123> JohnnyWing: just in case, there are hg and git repositories for ottd, which you can clone
14:58:39  <frosch123> "svn" is not used for branch development
14:59:23  <JohnnyWing> Yea....I work in git....the svn thing is new to me (tho I know it's old). I came away from the wiki guides without a clear understanding of what source I should be using for what.
14:59:45  <JohnnyWing> so I pulled svn, but I'll go back to the others
15:01:24  <frosch123> clone from git:// or
15:01:40  <JohnnyWing> ty ty
15:01:57  <JohnnyWing> is there a documented branching strategy?
15:02:33  <frosch123> no, in the end everything is put into svn, at which point the branch information is lost
15:02:42  <JohnnyWing> Sorry...i know I'm asking for a lot....but just want to get a clear picture
15:02:44  <JohnnyWing> ok
15:05:42  * peter1139 ponders dabbling with stupid size RSA keys
15:06:13  <Alberth> sounds like a good cargo to transport :)
15:06:43  <JohnnyWing> I see a stat on the wiki.... does anyone know when this happened? "Note: About 975 commits were lost when the old svn system crashed and was lost."
15:07:03  <Alberth> before rev 1
15:07:49  <Alberth> ie rev1 is what was salvaged :)
15:08:22  <frosch123> JohnnyWing: 2004/2005
15:08:31  <frosch123> @commit 1
15:08:32  <DorpsGek> frosch123: Commit by truelight :: r1 / (202 files in 13 dirs) (2004-08-09 19:04:08 +0200 )
15:08:33  <DorpsGek> frosch123: Import of revision 975 of old (crashed) SVN
15:08:45  <JohnnyWing> nice
15:09:07  <frosch123> it started in march iirc, so about 5 months were lost
15:09:18  <JohnnyWing> :(
15:09:28  <frosch123> well, not the work, but the history :)
15:09:39  <JohnnyWing> oh ok
15:11:49  <peter1139> if only we had git back then
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15:18:54  <peter1139> takes a while to generate 8192 bit keys
15:19:35  <peter1139> starts getting slow to decrypt too
15:24:04  <JohnnyWing> Oh. I found the issue :P
15:25:08  * peter1139 tries 16384 now
15:27:11  <Wolf01> JohnnyWing, too many objectives? :P
15:27:48  <JohnnyWing> Aye. Hard to focus when you don't know what you're shooting for :)
15:28:02  <JohnnyWing> and that's a very very broad scope listed there right now haha
15:28:37  <peter1139> well
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15:29:04  <peter1139> one persons stagnant and dead is another persons complete
15:29:31  <JohnnyWing> valid
15:35:39  <frosch123> JohnnyWing: there are at least three groups of interest wrt. game features: 1. micromanagement like conditonal orders, refitting and loading. 2. automated economy like cargodist. 3. model railway sandbox
15:35:59  <Wolf01> I'm for the last one :P
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15:37:50  <JohnnyWing> so 3 game modes. Check
15:38:15  <frosch123> maybe competitive is a 4th, but i don't get those people
15:38:39  <JohnnyWing> lol
15:38:53  <JohnnyWing> to each their own, eh?
15:39:21  <frosch123> :)
15:39:22  <JohnnyWing> Does competitive, though, violate on of the 3 objectives?
15:39:23  <JohnnyWing> Provide a game that is free from war themes and conflict; hence suitable for all age groups
15:39:31  <JohnnyWing> conflict is arguable :)
15:39:46  <frosch123> 1. and 2. result in a lot of conflicting features
15:42:19  <frosch123> 3 and 4 add insane requests for very complicated stuff, which for me always sounds like "how stuff is supposed to be" instead of "fun"
15:42:50  <frosch123> i.e. 3. and 4. are socially complicated, and 1. and 2 are technically complicated :p
15:43:30  <frosch123> </salt>
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15:51:04  <JohnnyWing> haha all of that makes sense.
15:51:31  <JohnnyWing> They really do sound like different game modes or different games entirely, where the features can be isolated from the others
16:01:43  <frosch123> except that different game modes or games would not offer the greyscale inbetween :)
16:02:26  <peter1139> you could have options for everything
16:02:39  <peter1139> and then offer another advanced settings window for all the options
16:03:01  <peter1139> and another option to hide certain options which are deemed more advanced
16:04:14  <frosch123> we have hidden options to show other hidden options
16:07:01  <JohnnyWing> lol.
16:07:12  <JohnnyWing> Yea. I could see it working out, but it'd have to be intentionally designed for such a scheme
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16:31:06  <lorran78> hello !
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16:31:39  <lorran78> i am still searching for help to make new grf (actually i always make same grf with different pnml :/
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17:27:40  <slaca> hi guys, I just realised on, that i have not the latest opengfx, i have 0.5.2. but i see there is 0.5.4. Why is that can't be seen in the content dowload?
17:30:51  <frosch123> likely because someone was busy and then forgot to publish it
17:32:17  <slaca> ok, so it should work with 1.6.1 openttd?
17:33:22  <frosch123> yes
17:34:44  <slaca> thx
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18:16:35  <Wolf01> used a station to create a zig-zag
18:18:39  <Wolf01> andythenorth, bad news for lego, they will raise prices in UK from january :(
18:19:12  <frosch123> quick, stockpile!
18:19:33  <andythenorth> brexit means brexit eh
18:19:38  <andythenorth> at least I got my country back
18:20:04  <peter1139> red white & blue
18:20:05  <frosch123> roadtype compatibility works now btw.
18:20:18  <frosch123> i've also added npf and yapf
18:21:11  <Wolf01> :O
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18:45:25  * andythenorth pulls
18:45:42  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27697 /trunk/src/lang (spanish.txt unfinished/urdu.txt) (2016-12-17 19:45:36 +0100 )
18:45:43  <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints:
18:45:44  <DorpsGek> urdu: 9 changes by siphr
18:45:45  <DorpsGek> spanish: 3 changes by SilverSurferZzZ
18:49:14  <andythenorth> frosch123: compatibilit works :D
18:50:02  <andythenorth> tried making some invalid orders and such
18:50:04  <andythenorth> all ok
18:51:08  <frosch123> it's all a bit crashy
18:51:32  <frosch123> when we fix the regression and the tram dropdown, we should make a test game or so
18:51:49  <frosch123> earlier a random starting ai showed me that you could no longer build rail bridges :p
18:52:55  <andythenorth> ha
18:53:11  <andythenorth> I should patch Road Hog and let players loose on it
18:53:19  <andythenorth> can’t today, child #2 birthday
18:53:28  <andythenorth> much parenting to do
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18:58:36  <JohnnyWing> I'm looking at gfx.cpp. The DrawString method and many others have comments stating to see "DoDrawString() for details". Does anyone know if this method still exists and where? I can't seem to find it.
19:00:11  <frosch123> i guess DrawLayoutLine is its predecessor
19:00:17  <frosch123> no, successor
19:01:12  <frosch123> no idea why that function should tell anything about colours though
19:02:27  <frosch123> anyway, DoDrawStrings was once in gfx.cpp
19:04:02  <frosch123> in r15000 DoDrawString refers to the comment which is now at the TextColour enum
19:04:40  <frosch123> so, i guess that DoDrawString reference can just be dropped :)
19:09:08  <frosch123> night
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19:27:17  <andythenorth> eh so what road types shall I add?
19:27:26  <andythenorth> tram, electrified tram
19:27:29  <andythenorth> normal road
19:27:32  <andythenorth> and ???
19:27:44  <Wolf01> Non-electrified tram
19:27:59  <Wolf01> Dirt road
19:51:42  <andythenorth> no trolleybus in this roster, but maybe in another
19:51:45  <andythenorth> also trolley trucks
19:57:35  <andythenorth> this steel mill is very TTD-ish
19:58:38  <Wolf01> Nice
20:00:16  <V453000> because it's small? :D
20:02:09  <andythenorth> yup
20:02:19  <andythenorth> so this steel mill stuff, that’s dirt road too?
20:02:29  <andythenorth> I want to call it something like ‘heavy haul road’
20:05:47  <Wolf01> But you can also run normal rvs on them, just make it with a low speed limit, 20kmh should be enough
20:06:21  <andythenorth> nah I’m making them exclusive :)
20:06:27  <andythenorth> the speed limit thing is weird
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20:20:06  <andythenorth>
20:44:30  <andythenorth> herp
20:44:45  <andythenorth> what’s the deal with compatibility between tram and road?
20:44:52  <andythenorth> any tram can be built over any road?
20:57:41  <lorran78> someone can tell me how to use make program?
21:00:31  <andythenorth> what’s your starting point?  (which OS, and do you have gcc?)
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21:18:54  <lorran78> sorry i was afk
21:19:12  <lorran78> i change pnml file to add introduction_date for all trains
21:20:19  <lorran78> i dl nml program and used it using "nml opengfx+trains.nml" but i always compile the same grf without changes...
21:20:31  <andythenorth> so you have a shell?
21:20:43  * andythenorth assumes that because you can use nml
21:20:57  <lorran78> yes i have dos window :p
21:21:52  <andythenorth> do you have gcc?
21:22:44  <lorran78> yes i dl something like that wait a sec
21:23:04  <lorran78> i have mingw
21:23:11  <lorran78> someone advise me this prog
21:23:23  <lorran78> but i don't know how to use it
21:23:26  <andythenorth> ok :D I have no idea what’s next with mingw
21:23:35  <andythenorth> what happens if you type ‘make’ in the dos prompt?
21:23:43  <lorran78> i test wait
21:23:54  <lorran78> nothing
21:23:58  <andythenorth> any error?
21:23:59  <lorran78> not recognisez
21:24:02  <lorran78> not recognised
21:24:20  <lorran78> i can use gcc tell me where to find it
21:24:56  <andythenorth> ach no idea :)
21:25:05  <lorran78> shame:(
21:25:07  * andythenorth looking if someone documented this for newgrf
21:25:24  <lorran78> i want to play but i can't :((
21:26:15  <andythenorth>
21:26:42  <andythenorth> you pretty much need all of that, on windows, as far as I understand it
21:28:15  <lorran78> okay i am reading :p
21:29:15  * Wolf01 nods...
21:29:25  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:40:49  <andythenorth> lorran78: those instructions might be outdated about python2.7
21:41:26  <andythenorth> I use python 3 for my newgrf stuff, nml was ported to python 3 some time ago
21:41:53  <andythenorth> not sure how it works for the windows nml though
21:51:39  <andythenorth> hmm maybe it’s just a specific script that uses it, nothing to do with nml perhaps
21:52:49  <andythenorth> oh FFS
21:52:53  <andythenorth> I broke my road-hog repo
21:53:11  <andythenorth> I need to stop using hg, I’m incompetent
21:53:13  * andythenorth -> bed
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