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Log for #openttd on 24th December 2016:
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01:05:25  <Wolf01> 'night
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01:44:01  <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: no, you cannot override single callbacks, only all of them at once
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07:38:22  <andythenorth> o/
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11:33:28  <lorran78> hello
11:34:02  <lorran78> i launch a bash make with ogfx-rv but i have an error :
11:34:26  <lorran78>   File "<string>", line 1, in <module> TypeError: Required argument 'year' (pos 1) not found
11:39:16  <lorran78> is there a newgrf with original planes (i wanted to modify the introduction date) ?
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11:53:01  <Eddi|zuHause> all newgrfs contain the original vehicles. so just start with an empty grf
11:53:24  <andythenorth> is santa
11:53:43  <Eddi|zuHause> santa is usually around 18:00
11:53:51  <andythenorth> we have English santa
11:53:51  <Eddi|zuHause> in these parts of the world
11:53:53  <andythenorth> he comes tomorrow
11:54:07  <Eddi|zuHause> it's 13:00 now
11:54:14  <andythenorth> my kids would prefer Euro-Santa I think
11:55:09  <andythenorth> eh so FIRS
11:55:29  <andythenorth> ‘Efficiency: Zero | Hero | Nero’
11:57:57  <andythenorth> also
11:58:28  <andythenorth> this business with Coal = 3/8, Iron Ore = 3/8, Limestone = 2/8
11:58:32  <andythenorth> seems unnecessary
11:59:05  <andythenorth> instead of adding up the ratios, why not: 1 cargo delivered = 25%, 2 cargos delivered = 50%, 3 cargos delivered = 100%
11:59:06  <andythenorth> ??
11:59:35  <Eddi|zuHause> why would that make a fundamental difference?
11:59:43  <andythenorth> two reasons
11:59:51  <andythenorth> (1) andythenorth doesn’t have to bother defining ratios
12:00:25  <andythenorth> (2) some cargos are more advantageous at some industry types than other, which is a strategic balance that wasn’t intended or sought
12:00:46  <andythenorth> also (3) no need to show the ratios in the FIRS docs
12:01:09  <Eddi|zuHause> well, i'm not leaning either way
12:01:34  <andythenorth> I think it’s a neutral choice for gameplay, but seems simpler to explain (and implement)
12:20:17  <lorran78> yes it contains original but not files with details? i must have file to modify it :)
12:23:43  <Eddi|zuHause> lorran78: you can modify an empty file
12:24:39  <Eddi|zuHause> lorran78: have you done the nml tutorial yet?
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12:33:13  <andythenorth> frosch123: seen my cb 3A proposal?
12:33:15  <andythenorth> o_O
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12:34:30  <Wolf01> o/
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12:45:11  <andythenorth> lo Wolf01
12:53:42  <andythenorth> ach
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13:16:22  <andythenorth> so 3 input cargos means 3 values for efficiency
13:16:31  <andythenorth> and 2 input cargos means 2 values for efficiency
13:16:50  <andythenorth> so do I have 5 different values?
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14:12:00  <frosch123> andythenorth: i am not a fan of ad-hoc solutions when it comes to apis that are supposed to stay forever
14:12:41  <frosch123> also, didn't you just complain last week that there are not enough text parameters?
14:12:52  <andythenorth> I did, but then I designed better :)
14:12:56  <frosch123> so, building all text with a single callback is kind of the opposite
14:13:00  <andythenorth> true
14:13:16  <andythenorth> it would be hard to pack enough info in the existing text stack
14:13:31  <frosch123> i am up for making the "waiting to be processed" more general in the base game, since it is overspecific to stockpiling
14:13:57  <frosch123> but all other text specific to single input cargos should be done via cb37
14:14:36  * andythenorth wonders what text would be best
14:18:44  <andythenorth> could we move the ‘0 tonnes’ into parentheses?
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14:18:55  <andythenorth> Requires: Fish (0 tonnes waiting to be processed)
14:39:20  * andythenorth starts an NRT game
14:42:37  <andythenorth> SV or Busy Bee? o_O
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15:17:22  <frosch123> finished and pushed convert-road
15:20:27  <andythenorth> yay
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15:20:30  <andythenorth> I’ll recompile
15:24:20  <andythenorth> frosch123: more artefacts on building a bridge with HAUL
15:24:24  * andythenorth screenshots
15:25:12  <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8260/NRT-artefact-2.png
15:25:26  <andythenorth> convert is pretty cool
15:27:35  <frosch123> well, which spritegroups does HAUL provide?
15:29:02  <frosch123> i see missing roadstop and bridge
15:31:13  <frosch123> cursor: optional; overlay: present; ground: present; catenary_front: optional; catenary_back: optional; bridge: missing; depot: optional; roadstop:missing
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15:32:52  <andythenorth> right
15:33:09  * andythenorth fixes that
15:34:06  <andythenorth> fewer hax
15:34:42  <frosch123> are there drive-in stops for HAUL?
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15:36:15  <andythenorth> yes
15:36:25  <andythenorth> but sprites are borked currently
15:36:35  <frosch123> yay, visual effects with broken-aircraft smoke :)
15:37:03  <andythenorth> you found a mining truck?
15:37:33  <frosch123> same with steam logging truck
15:38:12  <andythenorth> would be a shame not to use the effects cb properly :)
15:39:50  * andythenorth wonders what overlays HAUL has
15:40:13  <andythenorth> underlay + overlay is slightly overkill for most roads
15:40:15  <andythenorth> nvm
15:40:19  <frosch123> you can see them on the depot currently
15:40:47  <frosch123> for roads overlays are usually transparent
15:41:06  <frosch123> but they are used in depots
15:41:22  <frosch123> though not sure whether it stays like that
15:42:35  <andythenorth> overlay isn’t optional, right?
15:42:45  <frosch123> no, not optional
15:42:55  <frosch123> but for roads usually transparent
15:44:37  <frosch123> maybe we could make them optional for that reason
15:45:29  <andythenorth> could use them for the white lines :P
15:48:58  <andythenorth> ha my drive in stops are borked now :D
15:49:09  <andythenorth> more spritesets needed I guess
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16:02:38  <andythenorth> fixed
16:07:10  <andythenorth> frosch123: is there a place I can look which spritesets are required, rather than asking you?
16:07:36  <andythenorth> I am working with the copy of nml railtype example, which is only partially relevant I think
16:07:45  <frosch123> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action3/Railtypes#cargo-type <- you could extrapolate from that :)
16:08:03  <frosch123> required: overlay, ground, brdige, roadstop
16:08:17  <frosch123> optional: cursors, catenary_front, catenary_back, depot
16:08:29  <andythenorth> trying to figure out if junction is needed
16:08:41  * andythenorth suspects not
16:08:46  <frosch123> no idea what "junction" is
16:09:25  <andythenorth> me neither :)
16:10:00  <andythenorth> also “/* underlay for crossings w/o tracks */“
16:10:24  <andythenorth> can’t figure where that would apply to NRT
16:10:47  <frosch123> those are the regular sprites, which you see everywhere
16:11:30  <frosch123> a regular tile consists of: (road or tram underlay) + road overlay + tram overlay
16:11:58  <andythenorth> yes
16:12:25  <andythenorth> is there an easy way to see the count of sprites per spriteset?
16:13:43  <andythenorth> nvm
16:14:26  <frosch123> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pwckflwuf
16:14:32  <frosch123> gui may be incorrect there
16:14:46  <frosch123> and roadstop is missing
16:14:49  <frosch123> but the rest should be fine
16:15:05  <andythenorth> awesome thanks
16:15:22  <andythenorth> I think some of the copy-paste railtype spritesets have too many sprites for NRT
16:15:28  <andythenorth> due to crossing underlay / overlay etc
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16:20:46  <andythenorth> frosch123: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8261/road-hog.tar
16:20:49  <andythenorth> fixed a few things
16:21:10  <andythenorth> depots are borked, I will sort later, very child-loud here right now
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16:25:26  <Wolf01> "can the game X be played cross platform?" "no, the games are written in different languages"
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17:31:18  <andythenorth> what depot sprites should HAUL vehicles get? o_O
17:31:36  <andythenorth> similar to default RV, or completely different? o_O
17:42:00  <frosch123> taller?
17:42:22  <frosch123> made of galvanized sheet metal?
17:42:44  <andythenorth> possibly yes
17:42:57  <andythenorth> there are some from Pikka’s railtype set, that are adapted from FIRS machine shop
17:43:03  <andythenorth> seems appropriate :P
17:45:01  <andythenorth> not sure they’ll look right though
17:45:06  <andythenorth> logic doesn’t always win
17:45:47  <frosch123> you could take the aircraft hangar :p
17:46:23  <andythenorth> EL http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/201110/r847584_7974706.jpg
17:46:25  <andythenorth> RL
17:46:40  <andythenorth> aircraft hangar would be ok :)
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18:45:47  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27708 /trunk/src/lang (catalan.txt russian.txt) (2016-12-24 19:45:38 +0100 )
18:45:48  <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints:
18:45:49  <DorpsGek> catalan: 26 changes by juanjo
18:45:50  <DorpsGek> russian: 9 changes by Lone_Wolf
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19:37:34  <Wolf01> To-do list for tomorrow: sleep, get up, sleep again, get up again, shower, read some news, go to a friend's house, eat pizza, back to home
19:39:28  <frosch123> what's the first "get up" for?
19:39:48  <Wolf01> Look at the clock
19:40:47  <andythenorth> go back to sleep :P
19:47:34  <andythenorth> Wolf01: italians eat pizza? :o
19:47:34  <andythenorth> I thought it was a snack only
19:47:55  <Wolf01> We have real pizza here
19:48:05  <Wolf01> It's an entire meal
19:49:36  <frosch123> andythenorth: do you still want to do a christmas forum post?
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19:51:08  <Wolf01> My favourite: baked potatoes, sausage, onion, grana padano (cheese), pepper, over the classic pizza (tomato+mozzarella)... and I think I forgot an ingredient or two
19:51:55  <andythenorth> frosch123: eh why not :)
19:52:01  <frosch123> potatoes on pizza?
19:52:08  <frosch123> i get beans and stuff
19:52:21  <frosch123> but potatoes or pasta on pizza is weird
19:53:25  <Wolf01> Nah, it's a bomb, but the taste is really good :P
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20:14:39  <andythenorth> frosch123: dev thread? o_O
20:14:56  * andythenorth making a better Road Hog to go with it
20:15:05  <frosch123> which dev thread?
20:16:15  <andythenorth> a new one? o_O
20:16:28  <frosch123> oh, you man dev forum
20:16:33  <Wolf01> The one he wants to write to spoil to the world the fun we have with NRT :P
20:16:41  <andythenorth> forum / thread /s sorry :)
20:16:49  <andythenorth> maybe it’s premature
20:16:58  <andythenorth> there aren’t any newgrf docs yet
20:17:05  <frosch123> i guess graphic dev would be weird
20:17:28  <andythenorth> yup
20:17:29  <frosch123> so ottd dev, with link to binary, nml_git and roadhog?
20:17:40  <andythenorth> I think so yes :)
20:17:49  <andythenorth> depends if we want people to find bugs
20:18:01  <andythenorth> or we just keep it secret until April
20:18:30  <frosch123> nothing is happening from feb+apr
20:18:38  <frosch123> so, either now or never :)
20:18:46  <andythenorth> now
20:19:32  <frosch123> feb-apr we are busy explaining to eddi, why we did stuff the way we did it
20:20:15  <andythenorth> Eddi is writing the docs? o_O
20:20:22  * andythenorth can’t, the newgrf wiki won’t let me in
20:20:27  <andythenorth> I even made a new user
20:24:06  <andythenorth> frosch123: have you got any idea for witty post?  Or will it just be factual? o_O
20:25:35  <frosch123> dunno, silversurfer released 4 updates today
20:25:46  <frosch123> lots of cars
20:25:52  <frosch123> now, lots of roads
20:28:31  <Wolf01> https://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=190570 <- this picture made me want a full alphabet newgrf object
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20:37:29  <andythenorth> ha ha
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21:01:32  * Wolf01 is waiting to copy/paste his message on andy's thread...
21:04:34  <lorran78> sorry for the long response but i've already managed to compile another source with nml and bash too it's a new error for me :)
21:05:32  <lorran78> where find empty grf source?
21:05:59  <lorran78> i found only emptygrf from within ingame dl but no source
21:10:14  <andythenorth> Wolf01: I have to write the post :o
21:10:28  <andythenorth> I am drawing depots :P
21:22:07  <lorran78> Eddi|zuHause ? i answer for ur question
21:38:26  <andythenorth> have depots always clipped out of the GUI?
21:39:17  <frosch123> yes, though i guess we could fix that
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21:42:26  <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8262/haul-depots.png
21:42:36  <lorran78> hum i have some strange bug :/
21:42:39  <andythenorth> needs some pixels tweaking
21:42:42  <lorran78> 2 in fact
21:43:26  <lorran78> first when i set a year introduction for a train (modified opengfx+trains) sometime the game set 1 year more
21:43:48  <lorran78> and even if i set year introduction for wagons it doesnt work
21:44:06  <andythenorth> could lose the roof greeble maybe
21:44:07  <lorran78> it's always 1925 something like that
21:44:27  <andythenorth> lorran78: the game randomises vehicle introduction dates by ~16 years or so
21:44:50  <lorran78> oh okay
21:45:04  <lorran78> when i set 100 it could be 100-16 or 100+16?
21:45:18  <andythenorth> something like that
21:45:28  <lorran78> but what about wagons date?
21:46:07  <andythenorth> same afaik
21:46:24  <lorran78> but i set 0 and it's 1925 ...
21:46:33  <lorran78> it's somekind far lol
21:47:02  <lorran78> i modified all wagon*.pnml and set 0
21:47:50  <lorran78> i set it inside this : item(FEAT_TRAINS, flatbed_wagon) {
21:47:59  <lorran78> property of course
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21:49:49  <lorran78> and i asked some hours ago what can i do for this error on road vehicule opengfx+ grf  with command bash CC=gcc make:   File "<string>", line 1, in <module> TypeError: Required argument 'year' (pos 1) not found
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21:57:10  <andythenorth> lorran78: hard to diagnose without some source code
21:57:13  <andythenorth> what have you changed?
21:57:21  <andythenorth> have you got a diff?
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22:33:59  <lorran78> re andy
22:34:00  <lorran78> hum
22:35:11  <lorran78> the error come from the source code named : ogfx-rv-0.4.1-source
22:35:21  <lorran78> from the http://bundles.openttdcoop.org
22:35:38  <lorran78> it seems the compilation has error maybe? :/
22:38:08  <lorran78> i added introduction_date to all 3 sort or rail to test but same bug
22:38:22  <lorran78> always 1925 or so to the wagons
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