Log for #openttd on 26th December 2016:
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00:44:51  <Wolf01> 'night
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09:29:15  <Wolf01> o/
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09:48:23  <andythenorth> lo Wolf01
09:48:58  <Wolf01> So it is then... Eddi was right
09:50:30  <andythenorth> he often is
09:50:40  <andythenorth> what was he right about?
09:50:52  <Wolf01> George Michael
09:51:13  <andythenorth> 2016 rolls on
09:51:24  <andythenorth> also, shall we fix tooltips for main toolbar? o_O
09:51:36  <andythenorth> (try them for tramtype onwards)
09:51:54  <Wolf01> Nah, I like how they are ;)
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09:59:07  <Wolf01> Done
10:00:12  <Wolf01> Uhm, it's me or the scenario editor tramway button is missing?
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10:01:42  <andythenorth> Wolf01: it’s missing :)
10:01:52  <Wolf01> I was sure I pushed it
10:02:04  <Wolf01>
10:02:47  <andythenorth> hmm
10:02:57  <andythenorth> is the commit just for the roadtypes?
10:03:02  <andythenorth> and not the tramtypes/
10:03:23  <andythenorth> also, mine includes ‘electrified roads’, which is curious
10:03:26  <Wolf01> Uhm, yes, it is
10:05:50  <Wolf01> Also roadtypes different from normal road can't be built on editor... I wonder why, it worked
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10:09:54  <andythenorth> ‘many eyes make shallow bugs’ etc :P
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10:26:43  <Wolf01> Mmmh, I need to hide some roadtypes from editor dropdown
10:26:48  <Wolf01> Like electric road
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11:53:51  <andythenorth> quak
11:54:46  <frosch123> moi
11:56:33  <frosch123> let's see how upgrading roads works
11:58:06  <andythenorth> probably better than this wifi
11:58:22  <andythenorth> probably better than this wifi network
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12:01:00  <frosch123> thanks for the demonstration
12:02:20  <andythenorth> it’s fantastic
12:05:23  <Alberth> congrats with the christmas present, all!
12:05:41  <andythenorth> lo Alberth :)
12:05:50  <Alberth> o/
12:18:50  * andythenorth wonders what to do next
12:20:02  <frosch123> should road and tram depots look differently?
12:20:12  * andythenorth wondered
12:20:31  <andythenorth> I dislike the electric tram depot quite a bit
12:20:41  <andythenorth> but for consistencies sake I wondered about keeping it unchanged
12:22:53  <andythenorth> the HAUL depot would make a better tram depot
12:23:03  <andythenorth> and HAUL should look more like it fits with a mine or quarry or such
12:26:59  <Eddi|zuHause> i always used a tram grf with slightly wider rails, which also came with a tram depot
12:34:53  * andythenorth looks
12:35:34  * andythenorth used Light-rail/Tramtracks grf
12:35:42  <andythenorth> which has nice catenary, but horrible depot
12:35:53  <andythenorth> default catenary is really horrible
12:50:08  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
12:59:41  <Wolf01> I was about to see how I could fix the editor roadtypes dropdown before lunch, any suggestion?
13:07:04  <frosch123> what is it supposed to show?
13:07:13  <Wolf01> Not the electric road
13:07:19  <frosch123> why?
13:07:45  <Wolf01> No loaded grf with vehicles for it
13:08:12  <frosch123> then compare GetScenRoadTypeDropDownList with GetRoadTypeDropDownList :)
13:08:40  <frosch123> also i believe HasRoadTypeAvail disallows all roadtypes but normal road
13:09:39  <Wolf01> Yes, you see them but you can't effectively build them
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13:15:51  <Wolf01> :o 2 frogs
13:17:00  <frosch> the other one was jelly of andy's wifi or so
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13:24:39  <Wolf01> Ha! Removed haul but kept elroad
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14:45:09  <andythenorth> too much WIP :P
14:45:17  <Wolf01> :D
14:45:29  <andythenorth> big broken FIRS patch, big unfinished Iron Horse change
14:45:37  <andythenorth> unfinished Road Hog
14:45:48  <andythenorth> and Unsinkable Sam is barely a prototype
14:46:03  <Wolf01> Did they already start to ask for more features on NRT?
14:46:07  <andythenorth> probably :)
14:46:10  <andythenorth> it’s a good sign
14:46:14  <andythenorth> means it’s not ‘meh'
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14:53:00  <Alberth> :)
14:58:00  <frosch> gah, i can't decide whether overbuilding roadstop/bridges/tunnels with different roadtypes should error, convert or upgrade
14:58:16  <Wolf01> Or just build
14:58:18  <frosch> and it is so inconsistent for railtypes that it does not give a good example :p
15:01:50  <Wolf01> Should we be able to build even tramways in editor?
15:05:13  <frosch> they cannot be town-owned
15:05:17  <frosch> only bankrupt-owned
15:05:32  <Wolf01> Ok, then roads only
15:06:49  <Wolf01> I wonder if one day we could have generated maps with connections, and maybe industries too with the possibility to take over single routes
15:10:02  <Wolf01> Good guy adf88 provided a temporary fix for opengfx+ missing graphics :P
15:25:01  <andythenorth> frosch: upgrade = increases compatibility, never reduces it?
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15:28:51  <Wolf01> Yes, like RAIL->ELRL
15:29:10  <Wolf01> For example you can't upgrade ROAD->HAUL
15:29:21  <Wolf01> Only convert
15:37:15  <frosch> andythenorth: in practice yes, in theory compatibilty is not transitive
15:51:03  <andythenorth> upgrade seems like the right thing to do, but is the hardest behaviour to explain
15:51:15  <andythenorth> actually no
15:51:25  <andythenorth> what’s wrong with having to explicitly convert?
15:51:31  <frosch> the best behaviour is the one that does not need explanation :)
15:51:34  <andythenorth> or choose the right type before overbuilding
15:51:45  <frosch> anyway, already pushed
15:51:50  <frosch> made it the same as for railtypes
15:51:52  * andythenorth pulls
15:52:02  <frosch> though the behaviour for bridges and tunnels is meh in for both :p
15:58:08  <andythenorth> so HAUL won’t build over ROAD, but ELRL will build over RAIL
15:58:16  <andythenorth> makes sense
15:58:59  <frosch> and building ELRL over RAIL and RAIL over ELRL both result in ELRL
16:01:18  <frosch> ok, so... roadstops...
16:01:57  <andythenorth> ah I was talking about roadstops :)
16:01:59  <frosch> the gui sprites for road and rail include sprites for build tunnel, but not for build bridge
16:02:00  <andythenorth> sorry
16:02:22  <frosch> the gui sprites for rail do not include sprites for build station and build waypoint
16:02:34  <andythenorth> ok so if road is also present on the tile, I can build RAIL stop over ELRL
16:02:39  <frosch> i think the gui sprites for road should also not include sprites for build busstation and build truckstop
16:03:04  <andythenorth> if road is not present I cannot build RAIL stop over ELRL
16:27:46  <frosch> all gui sprites are meh
16:29:24  <andythenorth> yup
16:29:37  <andythenorth> I would leave them out as far as possible
16:30:10  <andythenorth> it’s nice if they look like what you’re building, cos it’s WYSIWG
16:30:32  <andythenorth> but it’s more important that you can recognise them quickly, and they don’t change a lot between types
16:30:55  <andythenorth> they’re an icon, not a preview
16:31:01  <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> if road is not present I cannot build RAIL stop over ELRL <-- why not?
16:31:12  <andythenorth> because it doesn’t work? o_O
16:31:19  <frosch> it does
16:31:37  <frosch> you can convert any station to any station by overbuilding, same as for railtypes
16:31:53  <frosch> you can only upgrade by building a station over plain track, same as for railtypes
16:32:12  <frosch> as said, it is as inconsistent as for railtypes :)
16:32:31  <frosch> but road does not have anything to do with it
16:34:16  <andythenorth> oh it’s too many variables, my report is wrong sorry :P
16:34:28  <andythenorth> testing requires a very precise set of actions, I didn’t do them :P
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16:46:54  <Wolf01> Needs a better error than "Cannot build road here", is it possible to tell at least "not compatible roadtypes"?
16:51:43  * andythenorth biab, flat battery
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16:52:21  <Eddi|zuHause> can you repair flat batteries with hotglue and tape?
16:52:33  <frosch> Wolf01: please also add a better message for railtypes :)
16:52:53  <Wolf01> Oh, they suffer from that disease too?
16:53:14  <Wolf01> I only use rail (no mono/magl) so I never noticed that :P
16:53:25  <frosch> Wolf01: i could not decide for what is the right behaviour, so i made it exactly the same as for railtypes
16:53:48  <Wolf01> It's ok for me, at least is consistent
16:53:53  <frosch> Eddi|zuHause: everything that easily burns is suitable to mess with batteries
16:55:31  <Wolf01> Bah... I'm watching a dvd rip because I'm too lazy to connect the dvd player and play my own dvd... but the overall quality makes me want to do that
16:55:56  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, back to my original question before: what i think should happen if you build a RAIL station on a tile that has ELRL is the same as when you build a RAIL trackbit on a tile that has ELRL, so it should automatically upgrade to ELRL
16:56:15  <Eddi|zuHause> no matter if there is ROAD or not
16:56:24  <Wolf01> +1
16:56:49  <Wolf01> And you shouldn't be able to build HAUL roadstop over ROAD
16:57:05  <Wolf01> But it builds ROAD roadstop instead
16:57:33  <Wolf01> It should be changed for train too if that's the case
16:58:08  <frosch> yep, same for rail :)
16:58:35  <frosch> rail + elrail station -> elrail station; elrail + rail station -> command failed
16:58:52  <frosch> rail station + elrail station -> elrail station; elrail station + rail station -> rail station
16:59:32  <Wolf01> Which is not backwards compatible, so it will break your route
17:01:25  <Wolf01> That could be ok for non-track tiles... but meh
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17:45:16  <andythenorth> also now we can add subways
17:45:23  <andythenorth> killer feature
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17:47:04  <frosch> maybe there should be an option to assign trucks to airports, to increase the airport cargo throughput
17:48:11  <andythenorth> transferring the baggage? o_O
17:48:49  <frosch> i did not dare to suggest to add inner-airport roads :p
17:49:11  <andythenorth> faster conveyor belts
17:49:25  <andythenorth> I need that no-junctions patch, for point-to-point
17:49:33  <andythenorth> then NRT can provide conveyors and pipes :P
17:50:05  <Eddi|zuHause> it really should not do that...
17:50:27  * andythenorth thinks Eddi just says that for encouragement
17:50:34  <frosch> since when can pipes not branch?
17:50:39  <andythenorth> reverse pyschology
17:50:54  <andythenorth> if they branch, how does the milk know which branch to take? :o
17:51:35  <frosch> the new one into the branch, the old one from the branch can continue
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18:06:57  <frosch> even andy's wifi is good compared to that :)
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18:08:15  <Wolf01> <andythenorth> I need that no-junctions patch, for point-to-point  <- lol
18:08:33  <Wolf01> Got to go, dinner
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18:30:09  <Frage> Hey all. Anyone who can help me get openttd working on Android?
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18:36:20  <andythenorth> Don’t leave me hanging on like a yo-yo
18:36:25  <andythenorth> Wake me up before you go-go
18:44:27  <andythenorth> ho, what smells bad about my ship size schema?
18:44:30  <andythenorth> o_O
18:44:37  <andythenorth> I have large, small, mini, micro
18:45:47  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27715 trunk/src/lang/spanish.txt (2016-12-26 19:45:38 +0100 )
18:45:48  <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints:
18:45:49  <DorpsGek> spanish: 2 changes by SilverSurferZzZ
18:47:45  <Alberth> too many sizes?
18:50:04  <Alberth> "micro" for ships doesn't make much sense?
18:50:16  <Alberth> "huge" is missing?
18:50:32  <Alberth> /me is just making random guesses
18:50:35  <Redirect_Left> Surely a 'micro' ship is just a dinghy?
18:50:49  <Redirect_Left> with a single envelope of mail on it
18:51:17  <Alberth> you send those by pigeon :)
18:51:28  <Redirect_Left> ah, of course.
18:52:09  <Alberth> hmm, aircraft set with pigeons :p
18:52:31  <Redirect_Left> Let's spice it up a bit, use owls!
18:52:37  <andythenorth> there’s no ‘medium'
18:52:38  <andythenorth> :P
18:52:39  <Redirect_Left> Pigeons are so predictable and old school!
18:52:43  <andythenorth> medium is boring
18:52:44  <Alberth> good idea :)
18:53:26  <Alberth> sounds like a nice experiment :)
18:56:51  <andythenorth> so what will the WaterTypes spec be? o_O
18:58:27  <frosch> i thought canal road is next?
19:05:26  <andythenorth> is hax? :)
19:05:34  * andythenorth needs electrified canal
19:06:06  <frosch> eels?
19:06:24  <andythenorth> yes
19:06:24  <andythenorth> exactly
19:06:25  <andythenorth> EELS would be the label
19:06:38  <frosch> :)
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19:12:14  <andythenorth> electric canals
19:12:18  <andythenorth> there are some extant in france
19:12:32  * andythenorth was trolling, but as usual RL trolls back stronger
19:12:36  <Redirect_Left> wow, that's an odd idea
19:12:59  <Redirect_Left> I assume there is some sort of huge fuse so if a certain part of it falls into the canal it won't kill all the wildlife in the water within X radius of the fault...
19:23:18  <Snail> hey Andy, I was looking for the list of your FIRS cargo
19:23:23  <Snail> I was referring to this:
19:23:42  <Snail> but I fear it’s incomplete… I read somewhere you added some new cargoes like Explosives
19:23:46  <Snail> but I can’t fing them there
19:24:26  <frosch> try replacing "releases" with "push" in the url
19:25:51  <Snail> —> 404 Not Found :(
19:26:28  <frosch> <- you dropped an "l"
19:27:10  <andythenorth> Snail:
19:27:31  <Snail> works, thanks
19:49:25  <Snail> andythenorth: maybe a silly question… but don’t you think the Vehicles Factory could also churn out Engineering / Farm supplies?
19:49:31  <andythenorth> it could
19:49:34  <Snail> like excavators, tractors...
19:49:35  <andythenorth> but it doesn’t currently
19:49:44  <Snail> any plans to do that?
19:49:54  <andythenorth> no
19:50:07  <andythenorth> there is the Machine Shop for that
19:50:44  <andythenorth> it would be hard to decide whether to drop FMSP or ENSP
19:50:52  <andythenorth> it’s better to avoid the question
19:51:15  <Snail> ah…. because industries can only produce two products?
19:51:37  <andythenorth> yup
19:57:20  <andythenorth> not sure what to do for pax ships
19:57:32  <andythenorth> my notes say ‘probably all ideas are wrong’ :P
19:58:26  <andythenorth> last idea was
19:58:36  <andythenorth> - fast, very uncomfortable, normal loading
19:59:08  <andythenorth> - medium, +/-0 on comfort (cargo penalty), fast loading
19:59:23  <andythenorth> - slow, very comfortable (cargo payment bonus), slow loading
19:59:35  <andythenorth> and 3 sizes of each
20:01:11  <andythenorth> so hydrofoil/hovercraft; commuter ferry; pax liner
20:01:19  * andythenorth is seriously unconvinced
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20:07:26  <fleet75> helloooo
20:08:21  <fleet75> idk but for some reason or another nuts train set seems give me a less than a frame a second, but only on servers
20:13:29  <frosch> and why would you blame that onto a train set?
20:16:02  <fleet75> if i join a server without the nuts train set which is 32bpp it works as expected
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20:17:19  <frosch> try disabling "full animation" in the menu
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20:18:21  <fleet75> kk thx
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20:31:55  <fleet75> actually i have no idea that its nuts trains set but i think it might be
20:32:09  <fleet75> i have gone through all the different blitters and none of them have an affect on the framerate
20:32:58  <fleet75> the framerate dies as soon as you enter the server, going from like 2fps to 2 seconds a frame
20:34:59  <_dp_> fleet75, which server is it? Did you try any other servers with nuts?
20:35:14  <peter1139> sprite cache size?
20:37:53  <fleet75> i tried it on openttdcoop welcome server, public server, and pro zone server
20:38:23  <fleet75> the welcome server works absolutely fine, however the public and pro zone servers framerate do what i just said
20:39:10  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd also suspect the sprite cache
20:39:24  <Lejving> should mention that it worked fine offline fleet75 right?
20:40:06  <Eddi|zuHause> but make sure that it's not just their massive networks that slowing things dow
20:40:08  <Eddi|zuHause> n
20:40:39  <Eddi|zuHause> (i did type that n, but then sausage-fingered backspace when hitting enter)
20:41:05  <fleet75> yup was going to mention that at one point i downloaded the pro zone server and it run as expected, and just ran the public server offline and it worked fine
20:41:38  <Eddi|zuHause> there's also a way to force the game to run in 8bpp mode, but it involves secret config settings
20:42:06  <Eddi|zuHause> that may or may not actually improve things
20:42:22  <fleet75> tried that, no effect
20:42:30  <fleet75> might not even be the nuts train set
20:42:46  <_dp_> fleet75, check citymania #0 it has nuts also
20:42:48  <Eddi|zuHause> more likely to be the industry set
20:42:55  <_dp_> most of it is disabled though...
20:43:19  <Eddi|zuHause> YETI
20:43:50  <fleet75> prozone runs yeti, but public server doesnt
20:44:10  <Eddi|zuHause> fleet75: even if you specify 8bpp blitter on the command line, the game will still turn on 32bpp mode if a newgrf requests it, there's a separate config setting to override that
20:45:03  <fleet75> i changed the blitter setting in the openttd.cfg file if thats what you mean
20:45:13  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that's not enough
20:46:03  <fleet75> oh wheres the second config?
20:46:34  <fleet75> i thought it was as all the buttons seemed lower quality and the trains looked like they were in 8bpp
20:49:40  <Eddi|zuHause> i think it's the "support8bpp" option
20:49:54  <Eddi|zuHause> but you need to look at what the values are
20:50:07  <Eddi|zuHause> it was something like no/software/hardware or something
20:50:43  <fleet75> oh kk
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20:51:38  <Eddi|zuHause> it might be called differently, or changed
20:51:49  <Eddi|zuHause> my info on that is very old
20:53:01  <fleet75> yh its support8bpp u=i need to change it to system
20:53:07  <fleet75> i*
20:54:09  <fleet75> it still doesnt seem to do anything
20:54:26  <fleet75> alot of other people on #openttdcoop seem to be having the same issue
20:56:46  <andythenorth> frosch: you’re away for some time now?
20:57:45  <frosch> yep, gone in an hour for 7..9 days
20:59:04  <frosch> my nrt todo list does not contain anything important, so people can play for a week :p
21:00:50  <andythenorth> happy new year :)
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21:01:51  <frosch> btw. i made the "overlay" sprites optional
21:02:17  <frosch> at least i think i did :p
21:02:19  <andythenorth> ok so I could drop those from Road Hog
21:03:07  * andythenorth learning about ship size names
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21:08:29  <peter1139> 120km today
21:09:08  <frosch> on your home trainer?
21:09:24  <peter1139> Nah, just my bicycle.
21:09:37  <peter1139> I actually leave my house these days.
21:09:55  <__ln__> sounds dangerous
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21:14:17  <peter1139> 12,650km this year
21:15:36  <frosch> so you do that trip every 3 days?
21:17:49  <frosch> did you get a job as bicycle courier?
21:18:45  <frosch> otherwise that is quite a lot
21:19:15  <Wolf01> He's the newspaper delivery kid
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21:23:28  <peter1139> Nah, 12km cycle commute to the office, plus weekend rides.
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21:35:59  * andythenorth driven away by flakey wifi
21:36:03  <andythenorth> bye :)
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22:43:44  <Supercheese> RoadTypes?!?!
22:43:46  <Supercheese> What is this madness?
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22:44:34  <Wolf01> What? Where?
22:44:44  <Supercheese>
22:44:50  <Wolf01> Really?
22:45:29  <Wolf01> Didn't ever notice that
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