Log for #openttd on 30th December 2016:
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00:37:45  <Flygon_> <Wolf01> So, I forked ottd... to make my one with supreme 3d graphics, blackjack and hookers
00:37:50  <Flygon_> The PS1 version already exists
00:37:50  <Flygon_> :B
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00:42:03  <Eddi|zuHause> lorran78: seriously, if those were not enough words to help you find the wikipage with almost the exact title, i can't help you.
00:42:56  <lorran78> oh it's almost the title?
00:43:04  <lorran78> i search for this strange lol
00:54:14  <lorran78> this : GRFID overrides for engines (11)  Allows you to provide a list of 'source' and 'target' GRFIDs to let vehicles in the source GRF override those in the target GRF, when dynamic engines is enabled. Each entry is 8 bytes, containing two GRFIDs. Multiple entries can be used, and different GRFs can be set to override the same 'target' GRF, but only the last instance of a 'source' GRF is active. GRFIDs that are not prese
00:54:57  <lorran78> but i am not sure it's answer to my question if all are reset if override ?
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01:06:34  <Eddi|zuHause> no, it's not reset
01:07:01  <Eddi|zuHause> nothing in your grf says "reset this vehicle"
01:07:10  <Eddi|zuHause> you just change this one value
01:07:14  <lorran78> cool then
01:08:31  <Eddi|zuHause> (note the limitation that you can only replace the graphics block as a whole, not individual parts of it. but you don't have a graphics block, so this is not a concern)
01:23:25  <lorran78> okay
01:25:09  <lorran78> my english is not so good so i am trying to understand the GRFID i know it's in header.pnml generally and i thought that is i set the same GRFID in my GRF it would work :/
01:30:47  <Eddi|zuHause> you need your GRFID and the GRFID of the grf you want to override
01:31:28  <Eddi|zuHause> (actually, you can leave out your GRFID)
01:34:37  <Eddi|zuHause> and in the game your grf must be below the one you override
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01:41:33  <_dp_> lorran78,
01:41:38  <_dp_> and so on
01:46:59  <lorran78> i thing i understand i try :)
01:48:03  <lorran78> and if i want to override 2 grf i had ; between?
01:48:15  <lorran78> add*
01:49:36  <_dp_> lorran78, no idea, mb try doing second after first
01:53:10  <Eddi|zuHause> you need a new override block for each override
01:53:58  <Eddi|zuHause> actually, you can't override two grfs simultaneously
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02:11:06  <lorran78> ok thx =)
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08:52:05  <andythenorth> o/
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10:46:55  <Wolf01> Moin
10:47:10  <Wolf01> heh
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10:58:34  <andythenorth> would need a hack of trams/RVs
10:58:50  <andythenorth> specify which level they’re on, for pathfinding
10:59:06  <andythenorth> just an integer, if the integers don’t match they’re blind to each other
10:59:16  <andythenorth> but there are 50 problems with ‘above ground’ vehicles
10:59:26  <andythenorth> tunnels, catenary, bridges...
10:59:28  <Wolf01> Also an offset for graphics
10:59:40  <Wolf01> Must be drawn over overlay
10:59:45  <andythenorth> you’ve seen elevated monorail?
10:59:48  <andythenorth> it’s a grf
10:59:59  <Wolf01> It's a hugly hack
11:06:01  <Alberth> o/
11:06:37  <Alberth> needs newmap, imho
11:06:52  <andythenorth> we would need more active developers if that was ever to happen :)
11:07:09  <Alberth> ie a map with several levels above each other
11:08:33  <Alberth> so far, I am stuck in how to store the tile data at all
11:10:46  * andythenorth would have no idea :)
11:10:58  <andythenorth> but presumably this just eats a lot more RAM?
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11:11:09  <Alberth> not necessarily
11:11:18  <andythenorth> how many levels are really needed?
11:11:27  <andythenorth> it can’t be arbitrarily extensible
11:11:40  <Alberth> if you split tracks from the ground, it would save memory
11:12:10  <Alberth> there are many ground tiles, but they don't all need all the bits of train tracks
11:12:15  <andythenorth> strikes me that only 3 levels are needed
11:12:23  <andythenorth> sub-surface, surface, above-surface
11:12:24  <Alberth> in fact, most of them re just empty, or have a few trees
11:12:42  <peter1139> but sub-surface tunnels
11:12:53  <andythenorth> I don’t actually like the idea, it would need a rework of transparency / gui tools to hide/show layers
11:13:09  <peter1139> it would need more than a rework of the game
11:13:17  <andythenorth> but eh, it’s a fun game to try and figure it out
11:13:32  <andythenorth> lomo solved it?
11:13:38  * andythenorth never played lomo, it’s not pretty
11:13:51  <peter1139> i had a... special version once.
11:14:04  <peter1139> building was annoying
11:14:12  <peter1139> a bit like stock ttd i suppose.
11:14:26  <Alberth> yeah :)
11:14:55  <Alberth> or rather, like building a rollercoaster
11:15:28  <peter1139> that was annoying too
11:18:07  <Alberth> andy: yes, it was solved in RCT
11:23:23  <andythenorth> presumably RCT allowed multiple coaster track heights on same tile?
11:23:30  <andythenorth> otherwise loops etc wouldn’t work?
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11:24:08  <peter1139> i guess. maybe not different types though.
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11:29:08  <andythenorth> is multiple map levels actually more fun? o_O
11:32:29  <Alberth> yes, you can have the same coaster passing the same tile several times. Other coasters work too
11:33:01  <Alberth> more fun depends on having loopings in our tracks, wouldn't it :D
11:33:26  <Alberth> NRT is spreading to patchpacks :p
11:34:26  <Alberth> basically you can build layers of transport then
11:35:16  <Alberth> a local train layer, a passing through layer, and a bus layer all on top of each other
11:35:37  <Alberth> useful in crowded cities, as we found out in RL :)
11:36:57  <Alberth> bridges and tunnels is our current limited form of layers
11:37:28  <Alberth> but you can't have a junction on a bridge
11:39:17  <michi_cc> Alberth: You want to complete for me? :P
11:40:29  <michi_cc> Splitting tracks from ground is already done (except making the tile struct smaller afterwards).
11:40:57  <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> tunnels, catenary, bridges... <-- the current "solution" to catenaries is to suppress drawing them when a bridge above is too low
11:41:40  <Eddi|zuHause> and obviously, elevated tracks won't be able to have tunnels, they have to transition to ground first
11:42:13  <andythenorth> how does FIRS cause an infinite loop in ottd?
11:42:35  <andythenorth>
11:42:39  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: make a backtrace?
11:42:45  <andythenorth> there are no loops in nfo
11:42:49  <andythenorth> not possible
11:44:01  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: infinite loops are definitely an openttd bug, not a firs bug
11:44:45  <andythenorth> I haven’t tried a repro
11:44:51  <andythenorth> no idea which FIRS
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12:01:53  <Alberth> michi_cc: how do you store map tiles?
12:02:34  <Alberth> but to answer your question: it's not impossible, but not high on my list
12:03:12  <peter1139> 2011 :(
12:03:36  <andythenorth> a classic year
12:05:14  <michi_cc> It's basically the RCT way (there's a web page somewhere). Instead of a 2D array like now it is an array containing an array for each map Y line. Each line has one or more Tile structs per TileIndex.
12:05:49  <michi_cc> A cache maps TileIndex -> Tile* for speed.
12:06:00  * andythenorth wonders if there’s a way to have multiple routes from one pickup station with cdist
12:07:43  <andythenorth> is it true that industries only distribute cargo to 2 stations with highest ratings
12:07:45  <andythenorth> ?
12:08:06  <andythenorth> those are two different questions :P Two different solutions to same problem
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12:10:45  <Eddi|zuHause> 1) yes, but gets tricky with more than, say, 4 destinations, 2) yes
12:10:49  <Alberth> latter seems true-ish, I remember rewriting such code once
12:11:46  <Eddi|zuHause> try having distribution hubs, so each station has fewer next hops
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12:13:39  <andythenorth> I never understood the cdist pickup behaviour, I’ve talked to fonso about it a few times
12:14:05  <Eddi|zuHause> say you have one source A and 9 destinations {1..9}, then try making 3 hubs {X,Y,Z} so you have 3 routes: A->X->{1,2,3}, A->Y->{4,5,6} and A->Z->{7,8,9}
12:14:37  <andythenorth> if I add a route to an existing pickup station, cdist (1) seems to take a very long time to recognise the new links and allocate cargo (2) always appears to distribute more cargo to the first established route, even though AIUI it should be a 50:50 split (distance effect is 0)
12:15:12  <Eddi|zuHause> if distribution takes long, you might have too many disconnected networks
12:15:34  <andythenorth> whereas, I have routes where cargo arriving at a a station is split between accepting industry and another route (transfer)
12:15:47  <andythenorth> which works perfectly, and near-instantly after building the route
12:16:12  <Alberth> (1) is a startup effect. Existing cargo at a station is never rerouted unless you remove the route, and a new distribution is computed only once every soo many days
12:16:24  <Eddi|zuHause> also, if using full load, it helps sending one train empty on a roundtrip at the start
12:16:44  <andythenorth> is that true, or is it superstition and voodoo?
12:17:31  <Eddi|zuHause> something inbetween. theoretically cargodist should figure it out based on orders, but i've seen that fail occasionally
12:18:10  <Eddi|zuHause> also, cargodist might fail on autorefit
12:19:12  <andythenorth> I use station refit to explicit cargo
12:19:25  <andythenorth> which does very occasionally fail to perform the refit
12:19:29  <andythenorth> but they’re not connect I think
12:19:32  <andythenorth> connected *
12:20:03  <Eddi|zuHause> well, cargodist's order-prediction can only work on the vehicle's current refit, not on the future potential refits
12:20:19  <Eddi|zuHause> so it might fail to detect valid routes if no vehicle ever goes there
12:20:58  <andythenorth> hmm
12:21:11  * andythenorth continues to build single-route pickup stations
12:21:26  <andythenorth> the limitation of 2 is just another gameplay feature eh?
12:21:59  <Eddi|zuHause> i suppose it was meant for competitors
12:22:26  <andythenorth> it’s fine, it’s just another constraint
12:22:42  <andythenorth> more what bothers me is that I should probably try and prove if/why cdist isn’t working right
12:22:46  <andythenorth> otherwise it can’t be fixed :P
12:45:53  <andythenorth> hmm
12:46:02  <andythenorth> are vehicle rosters a BAD FEATURE?
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13:17:01  <Alberth> creating the possibility to make distinct experiences in picking vehicles? not necessarily, imho
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14:51:03  <Arkhip> hi, who can tell me pass for nice_server (ver. 1.5.3)?
14:57:24  <Arkhip> Anyone is here?
15:09:50  <Alberth> did you check the server page?
15:10:13  <Alberth>
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16:56:58  <Wolf01> could be a nice ottd grf set
16:57:07  <Wolf01> Maybe too green
16:59:38  <__ln__> what are the WW2-era japanese fighters doing in the same village with modern-day trucks?
17:00:46  <Wolf01> I think the author started by doing one thing and then end up doing a mashup of different green things
17:00:58  <__ln__> how unrealistic
17:01:16  <__ln__> (although yeah, i like the pic)
17:02:13  <Wolf01> Long time ago I started doing a similar work (futuristic factory) but I abandoned it because I don't know how to do details
17:02:33  <Alberth> looks a bit very green indeed (or rather, dark), but nice otherwise
17:04:04  <Wolf01> I would do brown/dark red roofs to catch the eye and break the green tint
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17:22:16  <Wolf01> Uhm, I really think that tomorrow evening I'll be here
17:26:27  <Wolf01> Nice... train
17:26:35  <Wolf01>
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18:27:18  <peter1139> nice gif
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18:29:02  <V453000> nice indeed
18:30:19  <Wolf01> I hope to not have given some weird idea to V :P
18:30:55  <V453000> i only draw animls
18:33:41  <Lejving> dickbutt is an animal
18:33:55  <Wolf01> Totally in V's style also
18:34:37  <Wolf01> I'm bored again :|
18:37:16  <Arkhip> Alberth, all servers 1.5.3 with pass
18:37:48  <Arkhip> there are only three
18:45:46  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27718 trunk/src/lang/spanish_MX.txt (2016-12-30 19:45:38 +0100 )
18:45:47  <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints:
18:45:48  <DorpsGek> spanish (mexican): 25 changes by Absay
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20:15:35  <lorran78> hello
20:16:16  <lorran78> is this normal that fist with opengfx+industries make bank industries which create and accept nothing.
20:16:19  <lorran78> ?
20:19:31  <lorran78> it seems it depends which one if first but if fist if first then another industries create and accept nothing :(
20:32:35  <michi_cc> lorran78: In general combining multiple industry NewGRFs will not work, unless there where explicitly designed to do so.
20:39:58  <andythenorth> lorran78: is it the only grf in your test game?
20:40:10  <andythenorth> there might be some town sets that add banks
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