Log for #openttd on 31st December 2016:
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00:38:18  <Wolf01> 'night
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08:09:04  <andythenorth> o/
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09:38:44  <Wolf01> o/
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09:49:47  <Alberth> o/
09:49:47  <Wolf01> o/
09:49:53  <Alberth> early wolf today
10:16:59  <andythenorth> such vehicle height levels
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10:24:26  <Alberth> moin andy
10:24:39  <Alberth> 16 not enough? :)
10:24:45  <Wolf01> I don't think I fully understand this
10:26:31  <Wolf01> It's 2, then becomes 1, then suddenly it is 3!
10:27:58  <Wolf01> Also, I don't think vehicles can change offsets automagically when running on a different roadtype...
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10:59:17  <andythenorth> let him patch and see
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10:59:27  <andythenorth> he’s in this channel sometimes
10:59:52  <andythenorth> he’s done a few patches, dunno if they’re good
11:01:01  <andythenorth> we are short of contributors
11:01:06  <andythenorth> we don’t add bugs fast enough :P
11:02:52  <Alberth> it is working too much :p
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12:22:47  <ItalyTransport> Hi
12:24:31  <ItalyTransport> I have a question: do industries have infinite acceptance? I mean, can sell an infinite amount of cargo to an industry?
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12:25:28  <V453000> yes
12:25:44  <ItalyTransport> Ok many thanks :)
12:25:45  <V453000> some industry sets can change that, but normally it's that way
12:25:49  <V453000> you are welcome
12:26:01  <ItalyTransport> It's a very good game
12:26:05  <V453000> it is
12:26:38  <ItalyTransport> Ok, thanks again! Happy new year :)
12:26:38  <ItalyTransport> Bye
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13:00:45  <Alberth> upper monthly limit not worth mentioning?
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13:22:35  <Wolf01> Then, what's your new year resolution?
13:22:52  <Rubidium> the same as this year... 1080p
13:23:00  <Wolf01> Mee to
13:23:05  <Wolf01> *me too
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13:52:15  <Alberth> hmm, _tar_filelist looks like major name clashes are going to happen
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14:38:28  <Wolf01> Ha! Wrong roadtype
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14:55:56  <Alberth> :D
14:57:50  <Wolf01> Meh, roadtypes which forbid tunnels or bridges... what we have started?
14:58:17  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: that should not be a feature
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15:01:31  <Wolf01> bike roadtype... not what you expect
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15:05:45  <Alberth> could work :)
15:08:55  <Eddi|zuHause> does not look good for the lifetime of the wheel/axle
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15:21:50  <__ln__> on the other hand bikes can easily do 40 km/h with a 100 kg person sitting on them, while in that video there isn't even any load on the wheel.
15:23:34  <Eddi|zuHause> it's also running significantly faster than 40km/h
15:24:07  <Eddi|zuHause> and i don't think the wearing forces grow linear
15:25:47  <Wolf01> going to buy 12 of these
15:26:32  <__ln__> yes, sure it's going much faster than 40 km/h
15:38:15  <peter1139> yikes
15:38:36  <peter1139> the tyre would not last long
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15:47:48  <andythenorth> Wolf01: I am building a tow truck
15:47:53  <andythenorth> for my 5 year old
15:48:12  <andythenorth> been sat on the floor for 3 days :P
15:48:19  <Wolf01> :)
15:48:29  <andythenorth> it’s like 8285, but newer and stronger
15:49:53  <andythenorth> also this is my favourite lego part ever,%20Axle%20and%20Pin%20Connector%20Perpendicular%20Split&category=%5BTechnic,%20Connector%5D#T=C
15:53:38  <andythenorth> so…did a new scenario format ever happen? o_O
15:54:08  <Alberth> working on that :)
15:54:23  <Wolf01> Yeah, that part is really useful
15:56:16  <Wolf01> Ok, I wasn't able to finish the year without buying some lego... 15 sets
16:04:14  <andythenorth> :P
16:04:28  <andythenorth> I have spent 6 days now building lego for my kids
16:04:33  <andythenorth> I have had enough :P
16:04:45  * andythenorth wonders about GS -> newgrf
16:06:15  <andythenorth> wondering if I can reliably sniff FIRS industries
16:06:47  <andythenorth> I could generate a json file from FIRS to give a manifest of all the industry types
16:08:55  <Alberth> what do you gain if you know it's FIRS, in the GS?
16:09:41  <andythenorth> gameplay-related choices
16:09:48  <andythenorth> can choose to develop some industries, not others
16:09:51  <andythenorth> narrative basically
16:10:14  <Alberth> how does that fail with eg default industries?
16:10:21  <andythenorth> I choose not to care :)
16:10:25  <andythenorth> FIRS-specific GS
16:10:45  * andythenorth could even generate it in the FIRS repo :P  But that’s probably unwise
16:11:03  <Alberth> sure, but what is specifically needed in a GS for your idea?
16:11:16  <andythenorth> I am starting from the implementation details :P
16:11:18  <andythenorth> I have no idea
16:11:59  <Alberth> fair enough :)
16:12:24  <Alberth> have you considered playing the goal-based city grow thingie?
16:12:27  <andythenorth> some kind of progression, like seeding regions of the map
16:12:35  <andythenorth> start with forests for example
16:12:40  <andythenorth> then develop mines and so on
16:12:58  <Alberth> and GS spawns industries, I assume
16:13:12  <Alberth> could work
16:13:44  <andythenorth> yes GS spawns them
16:13:59  <andythenorth> I want to start on one corner or side of the map and work across
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16:14:08  <andythenorth> I’ve no idea if it’s a good mechanic in ottd
16:14:14  <andythenorth> but eh, experiments
16:14:21  <Alberth> only one way to find out :)
16:16:04  <andythenorth> can get the industry ID
16:16:09  <andythenorth> could just assume it’s FIRS
16:17:06  <Alberth> for first experiments, just assume user loads the correct FIRS :)
16:21:12  <Milek7> cargo ids are discoverable, so you can find industry id by matching input and output cargos
16:22:18  <__ln__> peter1139: bike tyres last for thousands of kilometers of normal use, how would a nearly frictionless operation at high speed make them not last long
16:24:39  <andythenorth> Industry ID is in the API
16:25:27  <andythenorth> oh maybe that’s an instance, not a type
16:27:15  <andythenorth>
16:27:22  <andythenorth> that should work, no?
16:28:06  <andythenorth> it’s fairly useless though, unless somebody changes the approach to GS :)
16:28:12  <Milek7> but it isn't stable
16:28:33  <Milek7> probably can change in new versions of newgrfs
16:28:40  <andythenorth> yeah
16:28:45  <andythenorth> [shrug]
16:28:56  <andythenorth> shit happens
16:29:04  <andythenorth> I control the newgrf, so eh :)
16:29:10  <Milek7> and also changes when user loads some other industry-adding newgrf
16:29:22  <andythenorth> users shouldn’t do that
16:29:25  <andythenorth> well
16:29:32  <Milek7> but do :)
16:29:32  <andythenorth> yeah, ok
16:29:41  <andythenorth> ok, well they can’t play with my GS then
16:29:45  <andythenorth> when I eventually write it :P
16:30:10  <andythenorth> this ongoing refusal to tie GS to newgrf is one reason why there are so few GS
16:30:19  <andythenorth> GS was one of the best features added to openttd
16:31:08  <V453000> users evul, exterminate
16:31:21  <Milek7> i think matching input/output cargos is only way to identify industries realibly
16:33:02  <andythenorth> someone here was trying to get industry IDs recently
16:33:14  <V453000> probably dp
16:33:16  <andythenorth> they’re pooled, so it wasn’t reliable
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16:40:07  <_dp_> yeah, I ended up adding it to newgrf debug windown in citymania client:
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16:41:16  <V453000> how did the event go btw? :)
16:42:21  <_dp_> meh, no one was strong enough to last till the end %)
16:42:33  <V453000> xd
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18:45:45  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27719 trunk/src/lang/polish.txt (2016-12-31 19:45:36 +0100 )
18:45:46  <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints:
18:45:47  <DorpsGek> polish: 25 changes by nouwak
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19:17:36  <andythenorth> _dp_: be useful if that was in trunk
19:17:50  <andythenorth> needs a cherrypick :P
19:17:59  <andythenorth> probably today is a bad day to get it reviewed :)
19:20:10  <LordAro> andythenorth: well, there's going to be a lot of out of date years in the codebase shortly
19:24:08  <Alberth> we just extend the year :p
19:33:47  <__ln__> opinions on the new series, Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency?
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19:41:52  <MonkeyDrone> __ln__: definitely worth the watch
19:43:16  <Wolf01> Nice
19:43:17  <MonkeyDrone> i compile openttd in MS VS 2015 CE. It comfiles it but then when i run it, i get htis error.
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19:44:07  <MonkeyDrone> googlefu has failed me
19:47:49  <Alberth> you should compile everything, not just openttd
19:48:20  <Alberth> there are other projects, like the language file compiler, that generate languagepacks for the program
19:48:34  <MonkeyDrone> i did tell it to compile the whole thing, let me double check
19:48:46  <Alberth> not sure how it's called, "solution" or so, I think
19:48:58  <Alberth> nice microsoft speak
19:49:05  <__ln__> MonkeyDrone: yeah, i think so too, after having watched it. not necessarily that adamsish, but nevertheless.
19:49:16  <Alberth> have a look at the wiki with an older VS
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19:51:01  <MonkeyDrone> Alberth: will do so, although I have clearly told it to compilte the whole thing. it needs a few minuets
19:52:00  <Alberth> I don't have Windows, so no idea, mostly
19:52:48  <Alberth>    2015 even exists
19:54:27  <Rubidium> I think that the language files are not put in a relative folder to the debug/release build folder, but to the right location compared to the other files. I think copying the executable to the right location (bin/) should help
20:00:56  <Wolf01> Strange, for me vs2015 compiles OTTD almost out of box, I only have to provide the libraries and I learnt to do that via the .user.proj
20:02:57  <MonkeyDrone> Rubidium: it compiles without any errors, only some warnings about 64bit thing,
20:03:16  <MonkeyDrone> Alberth: I followed that wiki and have it running.
20:06:58  <MonkeyDrone> only compile warnings i get is  Warning	C4334	'<<': result of 32-bit shift implicitly converted to 64 bits (was 64-bit shift intended?)	openttd	C:\Users\abbas\Documents\Repositories.6.1\src\genworld_gui.cpp	290
20:08:18  <MonkeyDrone>
20:08:24  <MonkeyDrone> build log
20:08:26  <Rubidium> well, the error is typical for not finding the language files in the lang folder compared to the executable. From back when I built the Windows version of the CF I seem to have remembered the MSVC build process not copying the exe from the release/debug folder to the folder where the lang folder is in (IIRC bin)
20:09:13  <Rubidium> it has nothing to do with compilations errors or issues, except maybe the build process not putting everything that is needed in a neat single location for MSVC
20:10:09  <Rubidium> which is why the build farm uses a Makefile after the actual building to get everything packaged up nicely for consumption by Windows users
20:11:29  <MonkeyDrone> Rubidium: so you recommend i figure out how to package the build output for it to run properly then
20:18:41  <MonkeyDrone> it's supposed to create individual file for each language correct?
20:51:35  <Milek7> last time when i checked vs2015 .sln in repo worked without problems
20:53:40  <MonkeyDrone> it worked, sweet. Now I just want to figure out that my compiled version is 1.6.1 so it can connect online
20:55:09  <MonkeyDrone> wiki instructions for older one are much better
21:03:20  <Alberth> what version did you download/checked-out ?
21:05:01  <Alberth> also, wouldn't it be simpler to get the binary download instead of building it yourself?
21:05:36  <MonkeyDrone> 1.6.1
21:06:12  <MonkeyDrone> I am just experimenting, trying to see if I can get polytool working for me on 1.6.1
21:08:10  <Alberth> then it's not 1.6.1 anymore
21:08:29  <Alberth> and won't work in multi-player
21:08:49  <MonkeyDrone> ah ok, thanks Alberth.
21:09:17  <MonkeyDrone> I have other plans for it, will see If I can code / mod the game in other ways.
21:12:35  <Alberth> ok
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21:20:14  <Alberth> o/
21:21:13  * andythenorth wonders if ships have animation state
21:21:25  <andythenorth> might be able to use frosch’s new multi-layered vehicle sprites
21:22:29  <andythenorth> animated wakes
21:25:25  <V453000> the day FISH suddenly grew in filesize 10000%
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21:25:56  <Milek7> Alberth: afair polyline tool don't break compatibility
21:26:50  <V453000> yeah I think the novapolis client had it, right?
21:26:56  <V453000> not sure though
21:34:14  <Alberth> oh?
21:35:05  <andythenorth> FISH are all dead
21:35:25  <andythenorth> actual fish are mostly dead, thermometer in the tank was wrong :P
21:35:42  <Alberth> :(
21:35:57  <andythenorth> didn’t all happen at once, it’s taken most of this year :P
21:36:14  <andythenorth> some were tougher than others
21:44:15  <andythenorth> ships ships ships
21:45:10  * andythenorth hopes to draw 8 standard hulls, and do magic with compositing the rest of the ship
21:52:36  <V453000> hope is good
21:52:52  <andythenorth> a new hope
22:00:56  * V453000 is busy AF designing the best factorio defensive wall ever
22:01:00  <MonkeyDrone> yes polyline is client only
22:01:01  <V453000> best new years eve
22:01:19  <MonkeyDrone> so i don't see it being an issue, its just the version check that would stop me from joining a server
22:01:40  <MonkeyDrone> hah V453000, mine went by an hour ago, figuring out ottd compiling :P
22:02:08  <V453000> :)
22:09:51  <Milek7> leap second in two hours ;p
22:10:42  <Wolf01> Millennium bug :O
22:12:09  <__ln__> is there a clock application that actually shows a leap second?
22:13:31  <Wolf01> I think they all will be synced at the next ntp call
22:14:53  <__ln__> errr.. you can't just move the clock one whole second as a result of an ntp call.
22:15:47  <Wolf01> But I think I've seen a 0:00:60 in some chinese clock happening way too often, which ended up in like 5 minutes at day of desync
22:16:40  <V453000> XD
22:16:59  <__ln__> the whole idea of ntp is that the clock doesn't jump by crazy amounts such as 1 second
22:18:14  <Wolf01> Oh, but your pc won't get synced by just 1 second, more like 3 seconds every day
22:19:32  <Milek7> linux handles it by repeating 59 second twice
22:19:53  <Wolf01> I remember when I was on win7 and ntp default server didn't work, my pc was desynced by 2 minutes against my phone
22:20:11  <__ln__> Wolf01: just because the default ntp implementation in Windows is crappy, it doesn't mean that's how ntp is supposed to work.
22:20:27  <Wolf01> This about 1 month after install, then I remembered to change the server
22:20:31  <Milek7>
22:21:40  <__ln__> Wolf01: i don't suppose you remembered to change the SpecialPollInterval?
22:21:57  <Wolf01> No, it was the server unreachable
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22:22:41  <__ln__> so you have not adjusted SpecialPollInterval at all
22:22:45  <Wolf01> No
22:23:07  <__ln__> so your pc clock gets synced from ntp once a week?
22:23:13  <Wolf01> Yes
22:23:17  <__ln__> congratulations
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22:27:06  <Wolf01> Maybe even once a month
22:27:22  <Wolf01> Last execution was on 16/12
22:27:53  <peter1139> once a week? heh
22:28:19  <__ln__> could be once a fortnight
22:29:29  <__ln__> i took this photo and only later realized there's something odd about it:
22:30:36  <Wolf01> Taken while the second changed, the top part was scanned by the sensor just before the change :P
22:30:37  <Milek7> timezone?
22:31:06  <V453000> microwave for cesium :D
22:31:21  <V453000> WITH TIME
22:31:46  <__ln__> the upper display is in local time and the other in UTC, but i think the seconds should match regardless :)
22:33:19  <andythenorth> bye :)
22:33:24  <Wolf01> __ln__, look at the eyes
22:33:48  <andythenorth> hmm, my 6 year old swears he managed to beat the mirror once
22:33:53  <andythenorth> he said it was laggy
22:34:09  <Wolf01> :D
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22:35:24  <__ln__> Wolf01: there are different sensors, too
22:35:58  <Wolf01> Sure
22:38:27  <Milek7> hm
22:38:37  <Milek7> how much atomic clocks cost? :D
22:39:03  <Alberth> too much
22:39:13  <__ln__> more than the regular too much
22:39:15  <V453000> want to wear it
22:39:43  <V453000> ultimate swag
22:40:28  <Wolf01> <- you could start wearing something like this
22:40:42  <Wolf01> This costs just "regular too much"
22:41:51  <__ln__> Wolf01: (taken using the same camera)  shouldn't the propeller look silly if the sensor was providing data from different moments of time
22:43:50  <Wolf01> Yes it should, then it's just a time offset, maybe really small and you figured to catch it with your camera
22:44:05  <peter1139> exposure time can affect things too
22:45:43  <Wolf01> 10/10 would wear
22:46:36  <__ln__> admittedly the atomic clock photo has a much longer exposure (1/15s) than the other, but if it was about that, we should see some remains of the digit 8 on the lower screen.
22:55:30  <Wolf01> So, 5 minutes to leap second here, let's see what happens
22:56:54  <LordAro> hype
22:57:31  <Wolf01> Meh, italian tv already in 2017 since 3 minutes ago
23:00:13  <Wolf01> Nothing happened
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23:06:46  <Wolf01> So, happy new year to living beings on CET :P
23:07:52  <Wolf01> I'll wait for GMT ones then I'll disappear for some hours
23:08:00  <__ln__> Wolf01: surely the leap second is added at midnight UTC?
23:08:13  <__ln__> i.e. not yet
23:09:03  <Wolf01> They said midnight, newspapers didn't say which midnight, for sure they don't even know that
23:10:35  <Alberth> for us it's 1:00, so it's UTC mid-night :)
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23:11:25  <__ln__> so we still have 49 minutes to decide how we are going to spend it.
23:11:41  <Wolf01> By looking at the clock?
23:12:01  <V453000> cock is fine, I looked
23:13:24  <Wolf01> Yes
23:23:17  <LordAro> (͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
23:23:34  <Wolf01> /ᐠ.ꞈ.ᐟ\
23:23:55  <Wolf01> Bah, ugly font, it seem like a bat
23:24:11  <LordAro> was that not what you were going for? :p
23:24:38  <Wolf01> Pussy
23:24:44  <Wolf01> But meh
23:26:29  <LordAro> lol
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