Log for #openttd on 3rd January 2017:
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14:19:42  <supermop> good morning
14:19:52  <supermop> hmm i was mentioned it seems
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15:07:41  <Alberth> o/
15:20:16  <supermop> hi Alberth
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15:42:29  <supermop> hi frosch123
15:43:03  <frosch123> moin
15:43:47  <Alberth> hola
15:44:50  <Alberth> what's the usecase for supporting symbolic links in tarfiles?
15:48:07  <frosch123> do you remember the days when there were dos and win paletted grfs and 32bpp in tars?
15:48:40  <Alberth> never very consiously, but yeah :)
15:49:03  <frosch123> someone thought: if grfs only differ by filename and 8bpp graphics, but shall share the 32bpp, then symlink them
15:49:15  <frosch123> i.e. i think you can safetly trash the symlink stuff :)
15:50:07  <Alberth> makes sense
15:50:42  <supermop> what case would they share 32bpp? to save file space?
15:51:10  <Alberth> and move the files of a tar inside the tarfile object, at least that seems like a good idea to me too :)
15:53:12  <Alberth> ie move elements of TarFileList _tar_filelist[NUM_SUBDIRS]; into elements of TarList _tar_list[NUM_SUBDIRS];
16:05:31  <Alberth> supermop: 32bpp doesn't change if you switch from DOS to WIN palette for 8bpp
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16:06:39  <Wolf01> o/
16:07:13  <Alberth> ie  dos.grf   win.grf   and some form of  dos32.grf and win32.grf  (names are wrong is my guess)
16:07:19  <Alberth> o/ W
16:18:53  <Wolf01> So, something interesting happened while I was busy with flu?
16:19:09  <Alberth> the number of the year changed?
16:19:18  * frosch123 was about to ask the same :p
16:19:43  <Wolf01> Besides that?
16:19:47  <Alberth> so that pretty much sums it up , I think
16:23:39  <Wolf01> Seem that the most wanted features now are: define roadtypes a city could build and elevated roadtypes with disabled collisions
16:26:22  <frosch123> first one sounds like "build newest roadtype that has flag 'city buildable'", and raises the question when to update
16:26:38  <frosch123> otoh, roads could just have date-dependant graphics
16:27:04  <frosch123> the latter would make sense for suspension rail
16:27:54  <frosch123> it would increase the loading capacity of roadstops when using both buses and trams )
16:29:08  <frosch123> problem might be that people want ordinate tram under suspended tram :p
16:29:52  <Wolf01> Plausible
16:30:07  <Wolf01> Also I was trying to get if a road was a "country road" some days ago, but somebody told me is already possible to check it with varaction 2 or something
16:30:20  <frosch123> yes
16:30:30  <frosch123> but we need fence-support
16:30:42  <frosch123> currently roadtypes do not supply any roadsides
16:31:04  <Wolf01> It shouldn't be that hard
16:31:41  <frosch123> Wolf01: all road tiles have a reference to the owning or nearest town btw
16:31:53  <frosch123> so, querying any town stuff is generally easy for roads
16:31:59  <Wolf01> Yes, I figured that out
16:32:51  <Wolf01> About roadsides, we should change completely the code which handles the stuff drawin in town zones
16:33:15  <Wolf01> Because one roadtype in a town zone might not want to follow the default
16:35:38  <frosch123> i think about adding a flag "do not draw default roadsides", setting it by default for the tram typesa
16:35:51  <frosch123> and then adding a123 graphics for fences
16:37:16  <Wolf01> What about adding an array of roadsides so a roadtype could configure it how it wants? The default roads uses an array of the defaults roadsides
16:37:19  <frosch123> hmm, andy spammed fs
16:38:19  <frosch123> did andy have some disease? why would anyone comment on fs suggestions?
16:46:28  <V453000> xd
16:47:35  <Alberth> christmas present by andy, perhaps :p
16:48:20  <Wolf01> What did he do this time?
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16:52:26  <LordAro> frosch123: iirc, he was going through things that should be closed
16:52:29  * LordAro waves
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16:53:19  <LordAro> guess he was hoping you'd(or some admin) would get the content of his messages, rather than just that he'd made a message
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17:11:59  <Wolf01> Meh, I should start building my micro-scale city diorama, I only have 2 months to do that
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18:27:02  <supermop> i feel so liberated nolonger having a computer at home
18:27:19  <supermop> although it means i only get to play openttd at work
18:28:44  <Wolf01> Aren't you supposed to work while at work?
18:29:58  <supermop> supposed to
18:30:03  <frosch123> where do you sleep?
18:30:25  <supermop> i have stayed late to push pixels around lately
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18:32:20  <andythenorth> o/
18:32:24  <Alberth> o/
18:32:25  <Wolf01> o/
18:32:34  <frosch123> o/
18:32:43  <andythenorth> triplicate
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18:36:31  <andythenorth>
18:36:51  <andythenorth> ^ ‘small’ were drawn last night; ‘micro’ and ‘mini’ are old FISH sprites that need a bit more work
18:37:26  <andythenorth> oops, forgot to un-retina the image :)
18:37:29  <andythenorth> might be big
18:37:42  <frosch123> browser zoom
18:40:15  <frosch123> no houses in the middle
18:40:42  <andythenorth> there will be
18:41:07  <frosch123> large freighter does not really look larger than the small one
18:41:34  <frosch123> wrt. cargo space
18:41:43  <andythenorth> I wondered that
18:42:01  <andythenorth> even looking at photos of ships, size is really hard to tell
18:42:08  <andythenorth> for similar shapes
18:42:33  <frosch123> large livestock and fridge front lacks the black floor
18:42:38  <frosch123> looks kind of hollow
18:43:08  <frosch123> also large piece
18:43:18  <frosch123> is it supposed to look like that?
18:43:58  <andythenorth> it is, but if it looks weird…it could look different
18:44:08  <andythenorth> it can continue the grey
18:45:35  <andythenorth> eh, by volume the large freight is 3.75 times more capacity than the small
18:45:47  <andythenorth> the in-game capacity is 2.4 times
18:45:56  <andythenorth> but that is totally not discoverable by eye
18:47:24  <frosch123> it is somewhat wider
18:48:34  <andythenorth> it doesn’t look bigger; looks further away
18:48:38  <andythenorth> eh how about this?
18:49:50  <frosch123> did something change? except the alignment?
18:50:42  <andythenorth> alignment only
18:50:52  <frosch123> i prefer the centered one
18:51:27  <andythenorth> yes, it’s graphically preferable
18:51:46  <andythenorth> it just causes an unfortunate size perception effect :)
18:51:56  <andythenorth> it’s related to
18:52:38  <supermop> Yo andythenorth
18:52:45  <frosch123> well, the large freighter mostly grows in the back and the front, but not in the cargo space :)
18:57:19  <Alberth> cargo space extends under the front and back :p
18:59:57  <andythenorth> I think the bow is too long relative to hold space
19:00:03  <andythenorth> and maybe the house too
19:00:28  <andythenorth> I don’t mind redrawing these a lot
19:01:03  <andythenorth> I’m going to write a compositor to make the different models from each hull type
19:01:21  <andythenorth> draw each hull+house combo once, get it good
19:01:26  <frosch123> i thought you already did :o
19:04:43  <andythenorth> not until the perception is right :P
19:04:58  <andythenorth> the size effects on ships have been bugging me for a long time
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19:05:58  <andythenorth> any forums? o_O
19:06:26  <frosch123> didn't dare reading them yet
19:09:24  <__ln__>
19:14:40  <Wolf01> I think is the same video I saw months ago
19:23:51  <andythenorth> yeah it was shared here
19:24:00  <andythenorth> relatively high effort to derail a train
19:24:06  <Wolf01> Yup
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19:30:17  <andythenorth> boats
19:30:28  <andythenorth> are hard to judge size of :P
19:36:53  <Lejving> I wish this wasn't a somewhat decent chat, then I'd make an adult joke :(
19:40:21  <andythenorth> it’s ok, we can make it in our heads
19:42:54  <andythenorth>
19:43:20  <andythenorth> think I should push the house back a couple of pixels, and bow forwards
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19:56:55  <andythenorth> frosch123: any noticeable improvement?
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20:03:18  <frosch123> not sure whether you made the large one larger, or the small one smaller, but i think they look different now :)
20:05:05  <andythenorth> the hold is 4px longer in the big one
20:05:45  <andythenorth> and the shape is changed enough, the small one doesn’t look like a further-away repeat of big one
20:10:49  <Wolf01> While you are at it you could do a tribute to Cussler's Oregon :P
20:17:23  * andythenorth googles :P
20:18:15  <Wolf01> It's difficult to find the real one, or at least good pictures of it
20:18:25  * andythenorth found the books
20:22:28  <andythenorth> allegedly
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20:23:44  <andythenorth> I could make the big ship 1px wider also
20:23:46  <andythenorth> not sure
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20:35:43  <Wolf01> I think this is the best one so far, from the corsair book
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20:41:00  <andythenorth> big ship :)
20:44:08  <Wolf01> Make it only haul logs ;)
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20:48:36  <andythenorth> @calc 128/96
20:48:36  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 1.33333333333
20:48:38  <andythenorth> meh
20:49:01  <andythenorth> 2.4x increase in ship capacity, but my sprite length rules say only 1.3 increase in length
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21:13:11  <Rubidium> @calc 1.333333333333333**3
21:13:11  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 2.37036859259
21:13:37  <Rubidium> close enough if you assume length, width and height are increased by 1.|3|
21:15:14  <andythenorth> volume, it’s bigger than you think :P
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21:17:42  <Rubidium> it's only about 1.25% off
21:20:53  <andythenorth> I’ll buy that for a dollar :)
21:21:03  <andythenorth> @calc 9/7
21:21:03  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 1.28571428571
21:21:20  <andythenorth> 9px wide big ship, 7px wide small ship, not far off
21:21:49  <andythenorth> @calc 7/4
21:21:49  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 1.75
21:21:59  <andythenorth> 1.75*1.33*1.29
21:22:09  <andythenorth> @calc 1.75*1.33*1.29
21:22:09  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 3.002475
21:22:15  <andythenorth> yeah, ok
21:28:12  <andythenorth> added small flatdeck
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21:42:52  <Redirect_Left> It's nice the livestock get windows.
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21:56:18  <supermop> stakes on a boat?
21:58:10  <V453000> don't question :D
21:59:09  <Lejving> snakes on a plane?
21:59:29  <supermop> andy will be drawing flatbed 747s next
21:59:44  <V453000> slug edition
21:59:53  <Lejving> slugs on a train?
21:59:53  <supermop> oversize piece goods concordes
21:59:54  <V453000> it's coming
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22:55:39  <Wolf01> 'night
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23:13:57  <supermop>
23:14:13  <supermop> doing this instead of work
23:14:48  <supermop> if anyone interested
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