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11:57:42 <__ln__> perhaps that's the only video not containing music and therefore available in germany 11:57:52 <Eddi|zuHause> they solved that. 11:58:27 <__ln__> admittedly i had read something like that in the news 11:58:47 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/web/youtube-und-gema-einigen-sich-nach-langem-streit-a-1119133.html 11:59:02 <Eddi|zuHause> that's like two months ago 12:00:06 <__ln__> so now you can finally watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGF5ROpjRAU 12:01:28 <Eddi|zuHause> (do i really want to click on that?) 12:02:21 <__ln__> completely sfw, and way better than the 3rd hobbit 12:03:41 <__ln__> and a great song 12:13:22 <LordAro> "way better than the 3rd hobbit" not exactly a high bar 12:21:09 <V453000> XD 12:22:01 <V453000> germany not having much fun on youtube with music? 12:24:04 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 12:30:20 *** mazert__ has joined #openttd 12:33:49 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 12:54:45 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 13:03:37 *** FLHerne_ has joined #openttd 13:03:37 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 13:09:47 *** crabster has joined #openttd 13:15:55 *** lobstar has quit IRC 13:44:25 *** FLHerne_ has quit IRC 13:44:39 *** FLHerne_ has joined #openttd 13:44:44 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 13:44:48 <Wolf01> o/ 13:45:50 *** Snail has joined #openttd 13:46:53 *** Mitooo has joined #openttd 13:48:59 <supermop> yo 13:49:32 <supermop> frosch123: that's a layered psd file here, with separate tracks and ground 13:52:47 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 14:00:09 *** Snail has quit IRC 14:00:29 *** Snail has joined #openttd 14:00:57 *** Snail has quit IRC 14:01:07 *** Snail has joined #openttd 14:02:25 *** Snail has joined #openttd 14:03:02 *** Snail has joined #openttd 14:03:55 *** Snail has joined #openttd 14:04:01 <supermop> hmm why is there a purple pixel on the chips mud tile 14:04:09 *** Snail has quit IRC 14:04:37 *** Snail has joined #openttd 14:08:14 <supermop> chips sources have a deprecated sand tile 14:08:26 <supermop> i assume to replace mud in desert 14:09:56 <supermop> also tram tracks set into mud look pretty weird without any trackbed 14:25:27 *** mescalito has joined #openttd 14:26:10 <supermop> do i need to provide separate level crossing sprites, base set style? 14:36:52 <frosch123> nope 14:36:57 <frosch123> level crossing belong to the railtype 14:40:21 <supermop> cool 14:40:58 <supermop> so just the regular flat bits, slopes, junctions, 6 depot sprites... 14:41:03 <supermop> tunnels? 14:41:28 <supermop> town sidewalks? 14:44:12 <frosch123> you also need bridges and drive-in stop underlays (unless tram) 14:44:16 <frosch123> depot is optional 14:45:18 <supermop> bridges as in the whole bridge, or the deck that get underlaid onto the bridge? 14:45:47 <frosch123> the overlay that is drawn over the bridge graphics 14:45:58 <frosch123> it is slightly narrower than the regular road 14:46:11 <supermop> ok 14:46:56 <supermop> well clearly i dont want that to be mud 14:47:53 <supermop> can i just reuse the base set bridge overlays 14:48:16 <supermop> as in can i not provide and fall back on them? 14:48:52 <V453000> omg bridges 14:48:58 <V453000> stomach just flipped 14:49:04 <V453000> brain froze 14:49:07 <V453000> eyes crossed 14:49:08 <frosch123> no, bridge overlays are required 14:51:29 <supermop> ok well ogfx ones are gpl so ill use those for now 14:51:48 <supermop> can't think of any reason why i'd want them to look distinct 14:52:18 <supermop> but dont need sidewalks or tunnels? 14:52:36 <frosch123> all the nrt sprites are drawn on top of the regular sprites 14:52:42 <frosch123> so, just make the bridge overlays transparent 14:52:48 <frosch123> and you will see the regular bridge 14:52:50 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 14:54:29 <supermop> nice 15:06:33 <supermop> what exactly is HAUL road supposed to be 15:07:25 <supermop> is it a specially strong road for very heavy trucks, or is the pavement less thick because it is for mining trucks with high flotation tires? 15:09:08 <frosch123> i think it is strong underground, but no fancy surface 15:10:08 <supermop> so in a muddy or cobblestone yard area, the HAUL trucks would still need special pavement, and not drive on the dirt/bricks 15:10:58 <frosch123> HAUL vehicles cannot drive on any other road, regular vehicles cannot drive on HAUL 15:11:08 <frosch123> off-road vehicles which can drive on dirt, can also drive on HAUL 15:11:39 <supermop> but haul vehicles cannot drive off road 15:11:47 <frosch123> exactly 15:12:10 <supermop> so any additional type of haul road, needs to also be reinforced like Haul 15:13:02 <supermop> maybe i'll draw it as a concrete slab then 15:22:06 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 15:22:06 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 15:22:12 <Alberth> o/ 15:23:39 <supermop> yo Alberth 15:29:48 <Wolf01> o/ 15:32:53 <supermop> the isr truck parking stripes are not consistent 15:33:16 <supermop> >:( 15:33:26 <supermop> means i need to draw my own 15:34:10 <Alberth> improve isr? 15:36:55 <supermop> in \ direction the caution stripes go away from the roadway, and in / direction the stripes go towards the roadway 15:38:54 <Alberth> stripes are a bit indecisive :) 16:13:39 *** ZirconiumX has joined #openttd 16:19:54 *** ZirconiumX has quit IRC 16:30:35 *** ZirconiumX has joined #openttd 16:32:21 <supermop> i wonder if chips asphalt stripes should be yellow like isr, or white to look more british 16:32:23 *** DDR has joined #openttd 16:34:08 <Alberth> given its author, my guess is the latter 16:34:38 <frosch123> andy uses ae terms all the time 16:36:31 <frosch123> like "reefer car" 16:37:03 <Alberth> ttd does that too 16:37:42 *** greeter has quit IRC 16:48:10 *** Flygon__ has joined #openttd 16:55:02 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC 17:01:03 *** greeter has joined #openttd 17:15:48 <supermop> http://imgur.com/a/KwXMM 17:18:29 <supermop> isr-ish 17:19:02 <supermop> now to make some isr slopes 17:20:07 <Alberth> isr is with all those high platforms in the shape of a silo, etc? 17:20:27 <Alberth> so you can't even see the train? ;p 17:22:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't thonk i've played in english since the TT demo 17:22:48 *** Defaultti has quit IRC 17:24:25 <supermop> Alberth: yeah it has those, but i mostly use a lot of the low gravel freight yard tiles 17:25:04 <supermop> people seem to like to use it and matching newobjects to build harbors and terminals 17:25:24 <supermop> so it might look nice to have a road type that looks like part of the yard 17:26:17 <supermop> now.. how to paint stripes on stones and mud 17:33:48 <Alberth> use ribbon :) 17:34:27 <supermop> i thought about that.. survey stakes with orange or magenta tape between 17:38:53 <Eddi|zuHause> just put tyre tracks in the mud? 17:40:54 *** Mitooo has quit IRC 18:03:44 *** glx has joined #openttd 18:03:44 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 18:12:20 <supermop> turn the tram tracks dark brown in photoshop? 18:24:25 *** ZirconiumX has quit IRC 18:40:17 <frosch123> supermop: Alberth: Wolf01: https://wiki.openttd.org/Frosch/NotRoadTypes <- want to check for readability? 18:42:53 <supermop> "There are no vehicles which require obth 3rd rail and catenary" 18:42:57 <supermop> TYPO 18:43:00 <supermop> oops 18:44:44 <supermop> can road or rail types not yet provide a specific foundation? 18:45:16 <frosch123> no, but could add that to the todo list 18:46:05 <supermop> not sure it is needed yet, but maybe someone someday would like it 18:46:12 <Wolf01> I don't undertand clearly the example 2, I mean the concept yes, but the sentence is a bit twisted 18:46:54 <Wolf01> Maybe just use labels instead of the dscription 18:47:01 <Alberth> Roadtype and Tramtype labels: independently of each other next to each other in the same game and NewGRF. -> independently of each other, in the same game or in the same NewGRF. 18:48:45 <Wolf01> Also, I would like to reason more on the roadsides, I would like to have country roads with trees :P 18:49:20 <Alberth> default openttd labels should specify whether they allow level crossings 18:49:22 <supermop> i would maybe lose the language about future noclip vehicles 18:49:23 <Wolf01> Maybe is possible to draw the fence as trees, but it's a bit forced 18:50:17 <supermop> as the example states, pursuing elevated railways as a type of ground level tram fails in ways users would not expect 18:50:29 <Alberth> last 2 sentences of the Roadtype and Tramtype labels need more explanation imho 18:50:41 <supermop> eg no tram under monorail etc 18:51:09 <Rubidium> frosch123: have you done a replace all of some word to Roadtype? I'm seeing quite a few places where there's inconsistent casing, e.g. FEAT_RoadtypeS, Roadtype_FLAG_CATENARY, powered_Roadtype_list 18:51:30 <frosch123> yeah, i did :p 18:53:51 <Rubidium> regarding building by towns, shouldn't (European) towns (re)build old-style roads within inner cities? After all, in most old city centres there's mostly cobblestones and the likes 18:53:54 <Alberth> Compatibility/Poweredness says you have to specify compatibility, perhaps show the specification of that? now the text bullits seem to be the specification to me 18:55:15 <Alberth> I'd keep vehicletypes out of tram & road types, especially as it's future 18:55:59 *** chomwitt1 has joined #openttd 18:59:07 <frosch123> Alberth: no idea how to word it differently 18:59:32 <Alberth> Global NewGRF stuff, NML: "Roadtypetable" <- lowercase R, I think? 18:59:42 <frosch123> removing the vehicle-only type would mean to remove example 2, and i think combining vehicle and track types makes it more easy to understand 18:59:45 <Alberth> frosch123: the "need more explanation" ? 19:00:49 <frosch123> Alberth: i fixed the capitalisation already, reload :) 19:01:26 *** chomwitt2 has joined #openttd 19:02:25 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 19:03:36 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 19:03:46 <Alberth> o/ andy 19:04:06 <Wolf01> o/ 19:04:57 <Alberth> NewGRF headings like "Road-/Tramtype translation table:" make it italic, so it doesn't look like normal text 19:05:35 <andythenorth> lo 19:05:42 <Alberth> or make NFO & NML a table 19:07:33 <Alberth> leave example 2 in, it's in the TODO list :) 19:07:40 <frosch123> andythenorth: https://wiki.openttd.org/Frosch/NotRoadTypes <- want to check for readability? 19:07:55 *** chomwitt1 has quit IRC 19:08:09 <andythenorth> :) 19:08:12 <Alberth> that's all 19:08:32 <supermop> you andythenorth 19:08:42 <supermop> i am making chips roads 19:08:49 * andythenorth reading 19:08:52 <supermop> s/you/yo 19:08:57 <Alberth> hmm, not entire "TODO", there is also "current status" 19:11:35 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 19:14:17 <supermop> not crazy about white paint onchips cobble 19:14:20 <supermop> http://imgur.com/a/F6hEN 19:14:29 <andythenorth> I don’t follow the transitivity, the diagram seems at odds with the text to me :) 19:14:44 <andythenorth> supermop: do white stones :P 19:14:57 <frosch123> andythenorth: you mean i shall add all the arrows? 19:15:00 <andythenorth> or ruts :P 19:15:40 <andythenorth> frosch123: the example is unclear to me because the compatibility lists aren’t shown 19:15:48 <andythenorth> how does OFFR drive on ELRD? 19:16:18 <frosch123> so another table with ! Roadtype !! Powered roadtype list ! ? 19:16:29 <andythenorth> not sure 19:16:35 <andythenorth> maybe yes 19:17:54 <supermop> andythenorth: was thinking cobbles maybe get stone curbs or gutters? 19:18:52 *** chomwitt3 has joined #openttd 19:19:21 <supermop> and HAUL on cobble, if needed, gets concrete slab 19:21:39 <frosch123> https://wiki.openttd.org/Frosch/NotRoadTypes#Compatibility.2FPoweredness <- better? 19:21:55 <andythenorth> yes 19:22:29 <andythenorth> something else that I think will come up, judging by forums, is confusion about tram catenary powering road and vice versa 19:23:01 <andythenorth> it’s maybe not obvious that catenary is (1) just graphics, not power (2) that tram and road power are orthogonal 19:23:06 *** maciozo has joined #openttd 19:23:26 <andythenorth> otherwise done? o_O :) 19:24:19 *** chomwitt4 has joined #openttd 19:24:36 *** DDR has quit IRC 19:25:20 *** chomwitt2 has quit IRC 19:25:55 *** DDR has joined #openttd 19:26:36 <Alberth> your graph contradicts with the "is not transitive" notion :p 19:26:42 *** DDR has quit IRC 19:27:51 *** DDR has joined #openttd 19:28:20 <andythenorth> nah :) 19:28:24 <andythenorth> the table shows how it works 19:28:32 <andythenorth> *types, never confusing, ever :P 19:28:44 <andythenorth> whoever made that rocket science spec, should not be allowed near rockets 19:29:35 *** DDR has quit IRC 19:30:00 *** DDR has joined #openttd 19:30:45 *** chomwitt3 has quit IRC 19:31:01 *** DDR has quit IRC 19:31:25 *** DDR has joined #openttd 19:32:19 *** DDR has quit IRC 19:32:37 *** DDR has joined #openttd 19:34:02 *** DDR has quit IRC 19:34:27 *** DDR has joined #openttd 19:35:58 *** DDR has quit IRC 19:36:21 *** DDR has joined #openttd 19:42:06 <supermop> are one way arrows, do not enter graphics, etc provided by road type? 19:42:49 <frosch123> currently no 19:43:03 <frosch123> i don't quite see the value in them currently 19:43:31 <Alberth> one-way pipes :p 20:04:07 <supermop> american road set uses a bulldozer and hole as 'do not enter' 20:04:56 <supermop> but an urban city street might look better with bollards and pedestrian area, or sign for do not enter 20:05:16 <supermop> and dirt road might look nicer with gate or cattle grid 20:06:32 <supermop> at any rate, painting white arrows on a dirt road looks a bit odd 20:14:39 <Alberth> one-way roads don't have much meaning anyway 20:15:16 <Alberth> it's not like you suddenly get the double capacity 20:15:32 <V453000> half in fact :P 20:15:42 <V453000> but yeah one way roads are nice only for better control/system 20:15:51 <V453000> evening gentlemen 20:15:57 <Alberth> depending on how you look at it, but yep :) 20:16:28 <Alberth> evenink 20:16:46 <Alberth> you could make one tile of asphalt, and put the arrow on that :) 20:17:43 * andythenorth thinks one-way-roads are 100% useless 20:17:50 <andythenorth> I’ve tried them a lot 20:18:06 <andythenorth> with RVs, you either have enough station bays, or you don’t 20:18:07 <_dp_> they're useful for trapping vehicles ^^ 20:18:10 <supermop> i use them to keep buses wandering over level crossings 20:18:12 <andythenorth> there are no routing tricks afaict 20:18:54 <V453000> haha andythenorth 20:19:00 <V453000> there are 20:19:10 <V453000> but it's generally just fucking with penalties 20:19:13 <andythenorth> “screenshots or it didn’t happen” :P 20:19:23 <V453000> ok 20:19:24 <V453000> game on 20:20:03 <V453000> https://wiki.openttdcoop.org/images/7/74/Psg229.png 20:20:09 <V453000> self regulating road station 20:20:36 <V453000> all RVs wait together and then go load all at the same time 20:21:10 <V453000> occupied bus stops can serve as penalties so they make other vehicles go elsewhere 20:21:11 <V453000> etc 20:21:27 <V453000> with 1way roads you can just control the flow better 20:21:53 <andythenorth> crazy talk :P 20:22:05 <V453000> you asked for it :P 20:22:29 <andythenorth> self-inflicted 20:37:32 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 20:39:56 <supermop> mostly i use the do not enter in towns 20:40:44 * andythenorth just builds trucks and sends them places 20:40:47 <andythenorth> very unleet 20:41:35 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 20:43:28 <supermop> where it might look nice to have a level crossing, but i dont want anything wandering over it 20:46:56 * andythenorth never thought of that 20:47:24 <andythenorth> I pretty much bridge or plant signs to stop the RV destruction 20:47:28 <andythenorth> hmm 20:47:35 <andythenorth> crossings that are banned to articulated vehicles? o_O 20:47:57 <supermop> sometimes bridge looks tacky in a quaint little town 20:48:25 <supermop> as does a giant red circle on the road 21:02:19 <supermop> i understand it might be a low priority 21:06:12 *** maciozo has quit IRC 21:20:10 *** Alberth has left #openttd 21:30:19 <frosch123> https://wiki.openttd.org/Frosch/NotRoadTypes#Regular_tiles <- added a composition image 21:38:15 <frosch123> andythenorth: i added a post to the forum thread, do you want to add a link to the first post? 21:38:39 <Wolf01> Wow, nice 21:58:07 <andythenorth> frosch123: will do now 21:59:18 <andythenorth> frosch123: done 21:59:24 <andythenorth> also, afaict, grfcodec just works 21:59:34 <andythenorth> that’s as expected? 21:59:43 <frosch123> yes, we do not care about nforenum 21:59:50 <frosch123> s/we/i/ 22:00:11 <andythenorth> fair 22:06:32 *** Arveen has quit IRC 22:09:54 <supermop> frosch123: nice image 22:10:34 <andythenorth> frosch123: thanks for the docs 22:10:36 * andythenorth must to bed 22:10:43 <Wolf01> Me too 22:10:53 <andythenorth> bye :) 22:10:59 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 22:11:36 <frosch123> as well :) 22:11:37 <frosch123> night 22:11:39 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 22:13:54 <Wolf01> 'night 22:13:58 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:19:41 *** maciozo has joined #openttd 22:24:36 <supermop> now only v is left to tell me my ideas are crazy 22:25:35 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 22:30:06 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 22:38:33 <Eddi|zuHause> i could tell you your idea is crazy 22:38:50 <Eddi|zuHause> but i am usually of the opposite opinion from V 22:40:45 *** gelignite has quit IRC 22:47:26 <supermop> that works 22:47:55 <supermop> well each of you usually will tell me my idea is crazy for opposite reasons 22:53:08 <Lejving> can we seriously get a checkbox to turn off bridge speed similar to wagon speed 23:00:52 <supermop> bridge newgrf with cheap infinite speed bridges 23:01:33 *** JezK has joined #openttd 23:19:54 <supermop> ok going to go buy a surface 23:20:14 <supermop> later 23:20:54 <Eddi|zuHause> poor you 23:24:06 <Supercheese> Welllll then 23:24:14 <Supercheese> might have to recode Fake Subways for NotRoadTypes 23:26:36 <Supercheese> can use "current_tramtype" to transition between underground & aboveground 23:27:02 <Supercheese> although making the actual transition tiles might be tough 23:27:38 <Supercheese> I'll have to rename it to "NotFake Subways" 23:33:16 <Eddi|zuHause> you need state machines for transition tiles 23:33:32 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. it will never(TM) happen 23:36:10 <Supercheese> I'm sure I can hack something up 23:36:22 <Supercheese> it'll still be rather fake 23:36:32 <Supercheese> just some graphics switching 23:37:52 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 23:40:38 <Eddi|zuHause> it'll still be "fake" because "subway" vehicles still can't pass surface vehicles 23:43:17 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC