Log for #openttd on 7th January 2017:
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07:34:48  <andythenorth> o/
07:49:17  <Alberth> moin
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10:04:11  <V453000> dem rails
10:04:13  <V453000> thanks LordAro
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10:51:31  * andythenorth placates pyflakes
10:51:31  <andythenorth> again
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11:01:15  <andythenorth> ach
11:03:35  <andythenorth> pyflakes hates this import
11:03:39  <andythenorth> ‘unused'
11:05:52  <LordAro> is it wrong? looks unused to me :p
11:06:07  <LordAro> or is __init__ doing something magical?
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11:06:54  <andythenorth> later, elsewhere, I do ‘from pixa import Spritesheet’
11:07:10  <andythenorth> basically my module design sucks
11:07:28  <andythenorth> I could just put all the code in the __init__ :P
11:10:31  <andythenorth> now I have happy pyflakes
11:10:42  <andythenorth> but my imports elsewhere look like ‘from pixa.pixa import Spritesheet, pixascan’
11:10:45  <andythenorth> which is dumb :)
11:10:47  <andythenorth> but eh
11:12:43  <LordAro> ah, i see
11:12:50  <andythenorth> ach pixa doesn’t even need to be a module
11:13:54  * andythenorth simplifies 
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11:29:40  <andythenorth> fricking transmitter bollocks
11:29:51  * andythenorth is all happy to help players, but some players can’t help themselves
11:30:18  <andythenorth> “I want a way to circumvent the game rules, but using the cheat menu makes me feel bad”
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12:00:08  <Wolf01> o/
12:01:48  <Wolf01> Bah, I can't talk today... throat ache
12:02:02  <Wolf01> Every day I'm ill in a new way
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12:05:59  <Wolf01> Quak
12:06:27  <frosch123> hoi
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12:15:48  <andythenorth> I looked at the GS proposals again
12:16:00  <andythenorth>
12:16:11  <andythenorth> ^ seems like it might have most interesting gameplay potential
12:16:39  <Wolf01> It has a lot of potential
12:16:52  <andythenorth> some of the other proposals, like controlling individual industries in detail
12:16:59  <andythenorth> are probably too specific to work well in ottd
12:17:05  <Wolf01> I would really like the "Disallow destruction of rivers on the whole map."
12:17:37  <andythenorth> multiple regions? o_O
12:17:51  <andythenorth> some regions cover whole map, some less than whole map
12:17:56  <Wolf01> Why not?
12:17:56  <andythenorth> might be daft
12:17:59  <andythenorth> dunno
12:18:06  <andythenorth> like layers for different gameplay concerns
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12:27:37  <andythenorth> ha ha
12:27:42  * andythenorth loves graphics generation
12:28:22  <andythenorth> it’s fiddly to set up, but boom
12:28:30  <andythenorth> 5 colours of tanker :P
12:32:18  <andythenorth> frosch123: are the layered vehicle sprites documented? o_O I can’t find them in the obvious places :)
12:36:47  <frosch123>
12:39:16  <andythenorth> thanks
12:39:21  <andythenorth> going to use it for wake sprites
12:39:34  <frosch123> found some copy&paste
12:39:46  <frosch123> it's SHIP_FLAG_SPRITE_STACK :)
12:39:55  <andythenorth> you beat me to it :)
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12:49:57  <andythenorth> it works :o
12:50:00  <andythenorth> ha ha
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12:54:28  <andythenorth>
12:54:47  *** Flygon__ is now known as Flygon
12:55:00  <Flygon> Why do I feel irrationally angry at OpenTTD having such a flexible palette...
12:55:07  <Flygon> I've been digging too deep into EGA palette <_>
12:55:50  <frosch123> which 16 of the 64 colours did you pick?
12:58:03  <andythenorth> frosch123: using the sprite stack will cut out 30 or so sprites for some ships
12:58:07  <andythenorth> not bad eh
12:58:13  <andythenorth> and I can animate the wakes, bonus
12:58:31  <andythenorth> animated wakes on my non-animated water :P
12:58:35  <frosch123> :)
13:02:44  <andythenorth> using a layer as a bool mask isn’t supported I guess?  (to knockout pixels lower down the stack)
13:03:17  <frosch123> no, no image processing in ottd yet
13:03:20  <frosch123> except for recoloring
13:04:02  <frosch123> you can put the lower pixels into a separate sprite
13:04:34  <frosch123> though that may hit the stack size limit
13:05:40  <andythenorth> I can mask at the compilation stage :)
13:05:43  <andythenorth> it’s fine
13:18:59  <andythenorth> frosch123: is my use of registers correct?
13:19:32  <andythenorth> works in game
13:20:51  <frosch123> looks fine to me
13:23:32  <andythenorth> ta
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13:33:22  <andythenorth> 2 waterline states (empty = high, loaded = full) are enough?
13:33:38  <andythenorth> I could add an intermediate, but eh, overkill?
13:33:46  <andythenorth> loaded = low *
13:34:24  <andythenorth> maybe it should match the number of cargo load states, makes the most sense :P
13:35:49  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, definitely
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15:19:10  <andythenorth> ‘return 16’
15:19:16  <andythenorth> that’s a useful method eh?
15:22:12  <Wolf01> Usually is return 4
15:22:30  <Wolf01> With a // chosen from a fair dice roll
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16:19:40  <Alberth> right, more code than _tar_filelist makes assumptions on unique grf filenames :)
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16:29:31  <LordAro> Alberth: what are you trying to do?
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16:32:56  <Alberth> loading two g/g.grf files, each in a g.tar file, in a newgrf/a and a newgrf/b directory, each with unique grfid
16:33:25  <Alberth> I thought that would worj after removing the _tar_filelist map, but it doesn't :)
16:33:42  <Alberth> *work
16:34:18  <Alberth> both grfs are found, so the drop is after file scanning
16:34:49  <Alberth> probably while creating a list of available grfs
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17:40:40  <Democedes> How long should it take The NewGRF server to get to 2160? I might go eat some lunch and join in on thestart if the next game
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17:57:14  <andythenorth> half the work is code
17:57:32  <andythenorth> half the work is drawing
17:57:42  <andythenorth> half the work is where to keep things and how to name them :P
17:57:58  <frosch123> half the work is talking about it
17:58:19  <frosch123> rude :)
17:58:48  <andythenorth> that’s more than half
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18:10:13  <Alberth> oh, how nice, GrfFileScanner doesn't use the supplied tar filename :)
18:13:44  <ephja> are there any maps that have individual islands for each players? so that you can play competitively without having to rely on rules that disallow sabotage
18:14:23  <Eddi|zuHause> there once was a patch where the map is copied X times so X players each have individual areas to build in
18:15:21  <Alberth> should be pretty simple to construct in the scenario editor, or with a height map, even
18:15:27  <frosch123> it's called head2head, it's ancient, but still available here:
18:15:37  <ephja> can this be augmented with the help of scripting? I dunno what new functions (if any) have been added since then
18:15:40  <ephja> oh ok. thanks
18:16:00  <frosch123> just make sure to not use any particulary new newgrf
18:16:05  <frosch123> they won't work in that ancient version
18:16:19  <Alberth> there are also scenarios with mountain ranges between players, afaik
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18:30:32  <ephja> neat
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18:45:46  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27720 trunk/src/lang/turkish.txt (2017-01-07 19:45:37 +0100 )
18:45:47  <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints:
18:45:48  <DorpsGek> turkish: 25 changes by barisdemirdelen
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19:34:43  <Ox4> hello guys. Could somebody help me with cargo income formula?
19:37:01  <Ox4> according to the wiki the amount of money earned when delivering a cargo is determined by four factors: cargo, amount, distance, and days in transit. So what is the "days in transit": when a train leaves the station or when a cargo is placed to the goods van?
19:37:25  <Eddi|zuHause> it's complicated (tm)
19:37:27  <frosch123> waiting time at station does not count
19:37:32  <frosch123> waiting time in vehicle does count
19:37:46  <frosch123> otherwise you are paid by average travel speed
19:37:52  <Eddi|zuHause> if a cargo is loaded into a vehicle, a counter is increased every 185 ticks (2.5 days)
19:38:05  <frosch123> where waiting in a loading vehicle counts as speed 0
19:38:07  <Eddi|zuHause> (the counter may be changed by the vehicle grf)
19:38:34  <Eddi|zuHause> this counter is used as "travel time" in the final formula
19:39:36  <Eddi|zuHause> so when the formula says "days", it actually means "2.5 days"
19:43:17  <Ox4> wow, I didn't know about 185 ticks :)
19:43:59  <Ox4> thank you guys
19:45:21  <Ox4> one more question about cargo amount generation. Is there a formula?
19:45:43  <Lejving> usr RV and call it formula 1
19:50:01  <Ox4> RV?
19:53:39  <Eddi|zuHause> cargo generation (short version): every primary industry has a "production level", and produces that amount every 256 ticks (8 or 9 times per month), and it randomly halves or doubles its production. secondary industries (usually) produce 1 output cargo for each input cargo. both of these values are multiplied by your station rating
19:54:47  <Lejving> rv = road vehicle :P
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19:57:33  <glx> "(usually)" means classic industries, not newgrf ones :)
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20:09:27  <andythenorth> meh
20:09:35  <andythenorth> now I have to do ship offsets for 4 different lengths
20:09:39  <andythenorth> yak shaving
20:10:00  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: if a ship is 128px long in the – view, what should the offsets be :P
20:10:21  <andythenorth> for a given length, it should be a calculation, not alignment by eye? o_O
20:12:28  <frosch123> depend on in which point does it turn
20:12:39  <frosch123> i think somewhere between middle and back
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20:16:05  <Eddi|zuHause> i honestly have no clue
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20:20:13  <andythenorth> I’ll do it by eye :P
20:21:07  <andythenorth> one day I’ll look up the offsets in ottd, and calculate them for all vehicle lengths :P
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21:18:23  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27721 trunk/src/newgrf_config.cpp (2017-01-07 22:18:17 +0100 )
21:18:24  <DorpsGek> -Fix: Testing GRFs for static-safety (when reloading the config) invalidated file slot 62, which may be in use by an active GRF.
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21:20:08  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27722 trunk/src/newgrf.cpp (2017-01-07 22:20:02 +0100 )
21:20:09  <DorpsGek> -Fix (r7490): GCF_SYSTEM was never set correctly.
21:22:32  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27723 trunk/src/newgrf_config.cpp (2017-01-07 22:22:26 +0100 )
21:22:33  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Simplify tests by using GCF_SYSTEM.
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21:28:10  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27724 trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp (2017-01-07 22:28:03 +0100 )
21:28:11  <DorpsGek> -Cleanup: Remove pointless usage of IsOpenTTDBaseGRF. System GRFs are never listed in the NewGRF GUI.
21:31:06  <SpComb> why is there no infrastructure sharing in OpenTTD 1.6.1 :(
21:34:07  <ephja> does the train-stations-around-a-town growth trick work well still?
21:34:16  <ephja> maybe I just chose a crappy city
21:34:38  <frosch123> is does not need to be train stations
21:34:47  <frosch123> it must be 5 stations, and they must be services
21:34:52  <frosch123> easiest are bus stops
21:35:12  <frosch123> and 2 busses running in circle
21:35:57  <ephja> doesn't the wiki show a screenshot with 4 train stations? is it up-to-date?
21:36:26  <Wolf01> Any number of stations is good, 5 is better for starting
21:36:31  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27725 /trunk/src (4 files) (2017-01-07 22:36:25 +0100 )
21:36:32  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Remove IsOpenTTDBaseGRF and test for GCF_CONFIG instead, which does the same in all use-cases.
21:36:35  <ephja> I see. thanks
21:37:50  <frosch123> 5 serviced stations give the maximum bonus
21:38:09  <Wolf01> If the city is too small it could be difficult to cram 5 stations in it, so 2 are good too, while the city expands you can add more stations
21:38:56  <ephja> indeed
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22:10:24  <andythenorth> ho
22:11:44  <andythenorth>
22:12:34  <andythenorth> nice eh? :D
22:12:54  <frosch123> looks false
22:13:27  <frosch123> is the upper one new? or do i just not recognise it?
22:13:56  <andythenorth> it’s a tanker
22:14:15  <andythenorth> this is over-engineering, but I will draw each hull type only once this way
22:14:21  <andythenorth> and then replace the green with the hull
22:14:35  <andythenorth> it wouldn’t be necessary, except that some of the hull shapes suck currently
22:14:56  <andythenorth> the green is the old/current/crappy hulls, as a drawing guide
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22:17:46  <ephja> oh, right. useless road construction -.-
22:18:08  <ephja> well, if you apply it to an area occupied primarily by yourself atm
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22:34:01  <__ln__> wait a minute
22:35:04  <__ln__> ok, one minute is up. continue what you were doing.
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22:41:55  <SpComb> bah, you can't even buy 100% of shares in a multiplayer game?
22:42:28  <SpComb> multiplayer games with cargodist is a bit :( because you can't transfer passengers between companies, or merge companies
22:50:28  <ephja> is there a convenient way of finding the towns that have the best growth conditions? if it even matters that much in the end
22:51:55  <Eddi|zuHause> no, only the largest towns
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23:32:15  <planetmaker> SpComb, you *can* transfer any cargo between companies. All you need to do is give them a trip to an oil rig :)
23:32:22  <SpComb> convenient
23:32:29  <planetmaker> adventure tours
23:32:47  <SpComb> but there would be more to multiplayer + cargodist if you could transfer pax between companies
23:32:53  <planetmaker> it's actually interesting when cargodist decides on its own that it wants to use such route
23:33:03  <planetmaker> well, you can
23:33:07  <planetmaker> via oil rig :)
23:33:21  <planetmaker> but only one player gets to be paid
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23:46:56  <Wolf01> 'night
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23:55:03  <_dp_> ephja, what growth conditions are you looking for? They are the same for all towns as I see it

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