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I would like to fix my terraforming tools but I don't have clue on how to do it :( 15:54:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think i can help you there 15:55:16 <Alberth> o/ 15:55:56 <Alberth> how do they fail? 15:55:59 <Wolf01> The problem is that the brush continuously raises the terrain, and does it really fast 15:56:23 <Wolf01> If I slow it down, it misses spots when dragging 15:57:04 <Alberth> raise one level each time you visit a tile? 15:57:23 <Alberth> or once every x seconds 16:03:09 <Alberth> conceptually, as soon as you cover a new tile with the brush, you raise the tile, and start a counter from x to 0. If it hits 0, raise again, and reset the counter to x. If the tile is no longer covered, remove the counter of it 16:04:32 <Wolf01> I'll end up having counters for 64 tiles at time 16:04:48 <Alberth> hmm, maybe not remove, but keep it running until timeout 16:05:03 <Alberth> less messy when you move back and forth 16:05:44 <Alberth> is 64 counters a problem? 16:06:17 <Wolf01> The problem is how to handle an array of counters which change continuously 16:07:47 <Alberth> 2D round-robin buffer? 16:09:06 <Alberth> for 64 tiles, a 6x6 area, where you point into it for one of the corners of the tool, which is at a known location in the map 16:10:00 <Alberth> all other tiles are relative to that position, but wrapping around in positive direction, instead of a negative offset 16:10:24 <Alberth> need a picture for that? 16:10:45 <Wolf01> I'm reading about it 16:11:10 <Alberth> :O it exists? :) 16:11:17 <Alberth> I just made it up :) 16:17:00 <Alberth> SO discussion looks different from my 2D idea 16:24:35 <Wolf01> Mmmh, an array of tile areas for a paintbrush pass, with the same exact area appearing only once, then when releasing the button it loops throught the array and raises the tiles 16:25:40 *** TheMask96 has quit IRC 16:31:10 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd 16:39:10 <Wolf01> Bah, I just limited the terraformation on cursor movement, which is better than nothing, but I think is even better if I'll go read a book instead 16:40:30 <Alberth> if the book is any good, sure :) 16:41:08 *** Ethereal_Whisper has quit IRC 16:41:13 <Lejving> I don't know if anyone here who did it but I just want to say who ever made the mods/load/menu map things for this game you're a god damn hero 16:41:35 *** Ethereal_Whisper has joined #openttd 16:41:36 <Lejving> Being able to load like 6 year old maps and just get right version number for a 10 year old mod without problem is a major masterpiece 16:41:53 <Alberth> oh :) 16:42:12 <Alberth> md5sum goes a long way :) 16:42:24 <Lejving> was it you who did it Alberth? 16:43:12 <Alberth> nah, done way before me arrived 16:43:22 <Lejving> ah ok but it's really fucking nice 16:44:15 <Lejving> I've been looking through some old openttdcoop games and it just hit me how amazing it is I can just load any old save and it works every time 16:46:02 <Alberth> :) 17:02:36 *** roidal has joined #openttd 17:25:47 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 17:28:15 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 17:28:31 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 17:37:43 *** Cals has quit IRC 17:47:03 *** Progman has joined #openttd 17:49:15 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 17:56:08 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 17:59:35 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 18:00:03 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 18:04:16 *** glx has joined #openttd 18:04:16 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 18:09:14 <Alberth> o/ 18:12:29 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 18:13:16 *** moonpunter has joined #openttd 18:13:29 <moonpunter> Argh can't seem to create an account for the wiki 18:13:38 <moonpunter> Not receiving any e-mails 18:13:43 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 18:14:31 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 18:17:16 <glx> try to signup at http://account.openttd.org/ directly 18:20:28 <frosch123> hoin 18:20:59 *** efess has joined #openttd 18:26:40 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 18:31:58 *** maciozo has joined #openttd 18:44:03 <Wolf01> Quak 18:58:14 *** ionut1984 has joined #openttd 18:59:24 *** ionut1984 has quit IRC 18:59:29 *** ionut1984 has joined #openttd 19:03:38 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 19:05:06 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 19:09:38 *** ionut1984 has quit IRC 19:10:17 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 19:21:42 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 19:22:33 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 19:23:26 <andythenorth> o/ 19:24:55 <frosch123> mo 19:25:30 <andythenorth> ha ha 19:25:37 <Wolf01> o/ 19:25:40 <andythenorth> an entire new class of routes in NotRoadTypes 19:25:45 <andythenorth> but... 19:25:54 <andythenorth> “Transmitters must be removable!!!!!" 19:26:59 <frosch123> well, at least someone might have got to "default objects should be overrideable by newgrf" 19:31:24 <moonpunter> glx: i've tried that numerous times before coming here 19:32:10 <moonpunter> gets to the screen where it says check your e-mail, e-mail never arrives 19:32:29 <andythenorth> “there are at least three groups of interest wrt. game features: 1. micromanagement like conditonal orders, refitting and loading. 2. automated economy like cargodist. 3. model railway sandbox” <- I think there is something else 19:33:13 <frosch123> reading ancient logs :p 19:33:38 <andythenorth> 'ancient' 19:33:45 <frosch123> last year 19:33:51 <andythenorth> so last year 19:37:55 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 19:39:19 <andythenorth> 5. mostly the original game, only more, and with GUI annoyances reduced 19:39:27 <andythenorth> 6. a platform for people to make addons 19:39:47 <andythenorth> yeah, as goals, the wording of those is a bit crap 19:40:14 <frosch123> is 6 an interest group, or just the comprimise of the rest? 19:40:56 <andythenorth> I think it’s a specific interest 19:41:11 <andythenorth> there is a meta-game and community enabled by newgrf, AI, GS and scenarios 19:41:37 <andythenorth> it’s a creative platform, not similar, but in same direction as minecraft, etc 19:41:52 <andythenorth> people who are just having fun creating things 19:42:05 <andythenorth> it’s quite valid to give people creative tools imho 19:42:37 <Alberth> a canvas and some paint 19:43:56 <andythenorth> AI bores me so I don’t know how well that goes 19:43:59 <andythenorth> newgrf is pretty strong 19:44:19 <andythenorth> scenario…seems a bit fragile? 19:44:22 <andythenorth> GS is….not as good as I’d hope, dunno why 19:44:57 <frosch123> i think gs is more interesting when other do it 19:45:27 <andythenorth> maybe it’s a limited audience, or maybe it’s the format, or maybe it’s lack of ideas 19:45:29 <frosch123> playing something you designed yourself is always weird 19:45:33 <andythenorth> I only use 3 GS 19:45:59 <frosch123> problem is that most gs do this weird town growth stuff, which is all equally meh to me 19:46:12 <andythenorth> yup 19:46:21 <andythenorth> I can grow towns way bigger than I want already 19:46:29 <Alberth> give more control over cargo payment? 19:46:33 <andythenorth> although….my 6 year old is a good barometer 19:46:47 <andythenorth> (1) his main goal is to grow his toyland city as big as possible 19:46:48 <frosch123> i play with industries, not with towns :) 19:46:59 <Alberth> city GS make grow more difficult 19:47:01 <andythenorth> (2) he is very jealous that I have two 20k cities next to each other 19:47:42 <andythenorth> (3) the other day in the car, I was wondering (in my head) why people want multi-layer bridges, then in same moment, he asked me out loud how multi-level bridges could be coded 19:47:43 <andythenorth> so eh 19:47:47 <andythenorth> 6 year olds 19:47:57 <Alberth> :D 19:48:29 <frosch123> enabling crossing bridges is like 3 lines 19:48:52 <frosch123> stacked bridges in same direction is a lot more work 19:49:21 <andythenorth> I still don’t see the point :P 19:49:32 <andythenorth> although he said it means he can fit more tracks in 19:49:52 <frosch123> maybe it's the hope that 3d construction would make it more interesting 19:49:52 <andythenorth> to me, the core challenge of the game is cramming routes in :P 19:50:05 <andythenorth> I want it harder not easier 19:50:13 <frosch123> while for me that hope got crushed with bridge builder 15 years ago 19:50:54 <andythenorth> bridge builder? o_O 19:51:06 <frosch123> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridge_Builder 19:51:25 <frosch123> was an awesome puzzle game in 2000 19:52:06 <frosch123> then got a 3d version "pontifex", which was exactly what i had hoped for, but was actually completely boring 19:52:09 <andythenorth> oh yeah, 6 year old also wants me to pay for this :P https://bridge-constructor.en.softonic.com/mac 19:52:13 <andythenorth> he’s done the free levels 20:02:18 <andythenorth> so what stops GS providing things like this? http://theterminal.dune2k.com/?p=rrt3-files-maps&id=453 20:02:22 <andythenorth> other than authors :D 20:03:18 <frosch123> isn't that busy bee? 20:03:42 <frosch123> just "replayablity" swapped with "hand crafted single scenario and balancing" 20:04:05 <andythenorth> probably 20:04:29 <andythenorth> each RT3 scenario was quite crafted, and needed a different strategy 20:04:51 <andythenorth> ottd is quite different, I think differences might be: 20:04:54 <andythenorth> - map is different :P 20:05:14 <andythenorth> - newgrf makes it impossible to know which industries and vehicles are present 20:05:57 <Alberth> this looks like a scenario, where you do know such things 20:06:23 <Alberth> arguably, you could code the knowledge in the gs, eg from grfid 20:06:34 <Alberth> although you may not have access to it now 20:06:46 <V453000> andythenorth your research brings me to conclusion my daughter should start playing openttd about now 20:06:47 <andythenorth> arguably, the newgrf author might revamp the grf :P 20:06:58 <andythenorth> V453000: how old? 6-7 months? 20:07:12 <V453000> 11 20:07:14 <Alberth> andy: well, ok, +md5sum :p 20:07:53 <V453000> frosch123: pontifex and bridge builder "D 20:07:55 <V453000> :D 20:08:07 <V453000> those were teh days 20:08:09 <andythenorth> V453000: maybe in 7 months more 20:08:12 <V453000> k 20:08:15 <V453000> will put on schedule 20:08:21 <frosch123> V453000: i was thoroughly disappointed by pontifex 20:08:30 <V453000> I dont remember shit tbh 20:09:11 <frosch123> Alberth: andy likes duck-typing. so: if it is a ship that refits to coal, it's proabably a bulk freighter 20:09:53 <andythenorth> 'probably' 20:10:05 <frosch123> V453000: blobby volley is the other thing that was played between cs 0.6-1.1 matches 20:10:22 <andythenorth> the scenario approach worked ok with a game on a DVD eh 20:10:25 <andythenorth> not so much with ottd 20:10:38 <V453000> I was thinking about buying planet coaster 20:10:50 <V453000> then I realized I might as well just play RCT2 20:11:47 *** Zuu has joined #openttd 20:12:07 <V453000> so I didn't do either 20:12:11 <V453000> tada, conclusion 20:12:12 <V453000> big story 20:12:45 <Zuu> Hello 20:13:06 <frosch123> computer games are like music :) if you know enough, everything is covered from some earlier one 20:13:18 <frosch123> hoi zuu 20:13:38 <moonpunter> this game has stood the test of time at least 20:14:24 <andythenorth> lo Zuu 20:15:39 <Zuu> I read about your road types work. 20:18:56 <frosch123> can we recruit you to design the script api? :) 20:20:57 <Zuu> Could be similar to rail types script API, although maybe some care is needed to not break most AIs in one go. :-) 20:21:40 <frosch123> the compatibility layer would probably always build the first available road/tram type 20:22:17 <Zuu> And then a method in the new version to set the road/tram type just like there is a method to set road or tram. 20:22:44 <Zuu> And some list to get a list of all road/tram types. 20:22:57 <frosch123> road/tram now play a more important role 20:23:08 <frosch123> they are more like a infrastructure type on their own 20:23:29 <frosch123> like tram having different reversal rules and such 20:24:01 <Zuu> And abiliy to query properties of the types as long as it is possible and not the result of a cb or deep in to the newgrf. (lower speed in winter etc.) 20:24:41 <frosch123> the properties work mostly the same as for railtypes 20:24:53 <frosch123> and iirc there was an api for railtypes 20:25:01 <Zuu> I never wrote a rail AI so I haven't looked too deep in to rail types. :-) 20:29:04 <frosch123> oh, another weirdness: gs could build road with no owner/town owner; but not trams :p 20:29:17 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 20:29:46 <Zuu> frosch123: Why is that wierd in the game? 20:30:04 <Zuu> Are you using reality as a point here? 20:30:10 <Zuu> ;-) 20:30:48 <frosch123> hmm, actually, you can also build canals 20:30:55 <frosch123> so tram should also be fine 20:31:09 <frosch123> we do not offer it in scenario editor though 20:31:59 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 20:32:10 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 20:32:11 <Zuu> But sure, for some game modes or scenarios it could be interesting, and I would not oppose giving GS that power. 20:32:43 <Zuu> I don't think we will break any GS by allowing it to build trams. 20:32:49 <frosch123> the thing was: rail is only company owned and is removed when bankrupt 20:32:56 <frosch123> road can be town owned 20:33:05 <Zuu> s/trams/tram rails/ 20:33:07 <frosch123> tram cannot be town owner, but is also not removed when bankrupt 20:33:21 <frosch123> but then i remembered that canals behave the same as tram 20:33:33 <frosch123> canals are also not town owned, but are not removed when bankrupt 20:34:16 <Zuu> So if tram is not removed when bankrupt, will it still have a company id as owner? Or was it that deity and town is two separate values? 20:34:36 <frosch123> tram and canal are OWNER_NONE after bankrupt 20:34:39 <frosch123> everyone can remove them 20:34:55 <frosch123> road turns into OWNER_TOWN when near a town, and OWNER_NONE when far away 20:34:58 <frosch123> or something like that 20:35:21 <frosch123> town can also build road, which you cannot easily remove 20:35:31 <frosch123> while clearing OWNER_NONE stuff is unlimited 20:35:38 <Zuu> I guess the reason to not let towns own tram was that towns would then have to be teached what to do with the tram network. 20:36:05 <frosch123> nah, it was actually bit stuffing :) 20:36:17 <ConductCat> :3 20:36:20 <frosch123> 15 companies, 1 no company 20:36:27 <frosch123> town owner requires another bit 20:36:31 <Zuu> :-) 20:36:47 <frosch123> the regular tile owner is 5 bits 20:37:02 <Zuu> Ok 20:37:13 <frosch123> but since stations have 3 owners meanwhile, it needed to safe bits 20:37:24 <frosch123> (roadstop owner, road owner, tram owner) 20:37:47 <frosch123> weirdness :) 20:38:08 * andythenorth has too much indirection in this ship compile 20:38:11 *** moonpunter has quit IRC 20:38:51 <andythenorth> capacity -> by cargo -> by size class -> from hull class 20:38:58 <andythenorth> that’s ridiculous :P 20:39:34 <andythenorth> 4 lookups / method calls to get capacity :P 20:39:54 <frosch123> i believe you can make it ludicrous 20:40:10 <andythenorth> I was wondering about mixins 20:40:30 <andythenorth> I could add a mixin to the hull class, providing a size 20:42:22 <andythenorth> ha ha 20:42:37 <andythenorth> frosch123 the diagram here is like your diagram for capacity http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=246341 20:50:36 <frosch123> but i can read my diagram 20:50:47 <frosch123> can the author of that read their diagram? 20:51:00 <andythenorth> I think not :) 20:51:26 <andythenorth> I will not miss being free of Plone, once I am finally free of Plone 20:51:29 <andythenorth> bue h 20:51:39 <andythenorth> poor typing :P 20:51:45 <frosch123> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/images/grfwiki/3/35/CargoMagic12flag5cleared.dot.png <- there is even only one cross-over 20:52:34 <andythenorth> much nicer :) 21:03:29 <frosch123> am i done with watching ludicrous related scenes on yt? 21:03:40 <frosch123> i even found one which i did not remember 21:11:26 <andythenorth> it sucks me in 21:12:01 <andythenorth> right now I have gone from take-apart videos of dangerous electrical devices 21:12:02 <andythenorth> to this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfLbfGGhE_A 21:12:07 <andythenorth> in two clicks 21:12:42 <frosch123> how boring 21:13:21 <frosch123> some years ago the sun-equivalent reported about two women competing on how many they could handle in one day 21:13:51 <andythenorth> the YT automatic subtitles really don’t handle regional English accents 21:15:31 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 21:18:06 <frosch123> https://youtu.be/yprhPXm-_c8?t=72 <- maybe that is still a better hobby then 21:18:13 <glx> <andythenorth> right now I have gone from take-apart videos of dangerous electrical devices <-- bigclivedotcom ? 21:18:24 <andythenorth> yup 21:18:39 <glx> crazy chinese devices :) 21:19:02 *** Vinicius_Brasil has joined #openttd 21:19:12 <Vinicius_Brasil> hi 21:19:49 <Vinicius_Brasil> anybody wants to play online? 21:26:14 <Supercheese> Reddit's r/OpenTTD servers are usually populated 21:26:46 <frosch123> you can also sort the server list by number of active clients :) 21:27:19 <andythenorth> is the subreddit for ottd good? 21:27:45 <frosch123> it has no original informat 21:27:55 <frosch123> it's a link aggegator for forums 21:28:04 <frosch123> and a support forum 21:28:18 <frosch123> i like it for the latter, because i am not involved :) 21:29:21 <andythenorth> fair :) 21:30:13 *** Vinicius_Brasil has quit IRC 21:32:11 *** Alberth has left #openttd 21:42:02 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:42:14 *** roidal has quit IRC 21:42:25 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 21:42:39 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 21:44:45 *** jack__ has joined #openttd 21:45:29 *** Zuu has quit IRC 21:46:22 <jack__> if anybody wantsto play the servers name is jack's server 21:48:02 <jack__> anybody wants?] 21:54:14 *** jack__ has quit IRC 21:58:40 <Wolf01> 'night 21:58:43 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 21:59:08 *** moonpunter has joined #openttd 22:03:21 *** rellig has joined #openttd 22:05:05 *** gnu_jj has quit IRC 22:05:28 *** Progman has quit IRC 22:06:07 *** gnu_jj has joined #openttd 22:09:25 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 22:11:31 *** rellig has joined #openttd 22:19:02 *** aard has quit IRC 22:19:43 *** gelignite has quit IRC 22:21:30 *** rellig has quit IRC 22:28:35 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 22:29:08 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 22:34:02 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 22:34:06 *** moonpunter has quit IRC 22:42:33 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 22:43:44 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 22:50:08 *** tokai has joined #openttd 22:50:08 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 22:57:08 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 23:01:06 *** Compu has quit IRC 23:01:24 *** Compu has joined #openttd 23:01:52 *** Compu has quit IRC 23:02:10 *** Compu has joined #openttd 23:06:29 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 23:07:07 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 23:08:42 *** gpsoft_ has joined #openttd 23:09:05 *** Compu has quit IRC 23:09:23 *** Compu has joined #openttd 23:11:28 *** Jinassi has joined #openttd 23:14:50 *** gpsoft has quit IRC 23:21:00 *** maciozo has quit IRC 23:25:50 *** gpsoft_ has quit IRC 23:28:43 *** JezK has joined #openttd 23:36:57 <Eddi|zuHause> i've completely lost track of what the transmitter thread is trying to achieve 23:37:03 <Eddi|zuHause> less obstacles? 23:37:06 <Eddi|zuHause> more obstacles? 23:37:15 <Eddi|zuHause> more obstacles that are less obstacly? 23:52:55 *** Wormnest has quit IRC