Log for #openttd on 11th January 2017:
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02:22:43  <supermop_home> maybe I should have taken supermop_zuHause
02:23:15  <Eddi|zuHause> without |?
02:23:23  <Eddi|zuHause> how dare you
02:23:51  <supermop_home> haha
02:24:07  <supermop_home> the pipe separator does look nice
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02:27:43  <supermop_home> walked past a yard of Long Island Railroad switches on fire last night
02:28:27  <Eddi|zuHause> that does not sound healthy
02:29:22  <supermop_home> someone had posted an image of it in forums recently I recall
02:29:46  <supermop_home> was a freezing cold night with a lot of snow on the ground
02:42:59  <supermop_home> Eddi|zuHause: here
02:48:33  <supermop_home> eddi, did ddr produce any cars other than trabbi for export?
02:49:23  <supermop_home> I was surprised athe the vareity of eastern bloc cars in Havana (thought it would all be Ladas...) but I saw no trabbis
02:50:24  <Eddi|zuHause> there were basically two east german cars, Trabant and Wartburg
02:50:57  <supermop_home> ooh, we never heard about wartburg in german class
02:51:18  <supermop_home> if I saw any of those in cuba I did not recognize them
02:51:25  <Eddi|zuHause> Trabant was the cheapest one, Wartburg was a bit more expensive
02:52:28  <supermop_home> some of these 50s wartburgs look really nice
02:52:57  <supermop_home> I like this green pickup:
02:52:58  <supermop_home>
02:53:44  <Eddi|zuHause> no idea if you could actually get that, looks customized
02:54:03  <supermop_home>
02:55:01  <supermop_home> the wrap over window on this is really nice, and the 2nd-tone stripe is nice, not in the typical shape that all other mid-50s two tone cars had
02:55:29  <Eddi|zuHause> the sad thing about east german cars was that the production line basically froze in the 60s. they designed new models each year, but they never went into production
02:55:41  <supermop_home> I did see a hacked together lada limousine with 6 doors
02:55:55  <Eddi|zuHause> until it was too late, and the factories could not survive the currency shock of the 90s
02:56:42  <supermop_home> Eddi|zuHause yeah bummer, I was wondering why the soviet bloc as a whole didn't aim to sell east german cars for export
02:57:16  <supermop_home> it seems like they could have been sucessful in the non-aligned world or even parts of the west
02:57:36  <Eddi|zuHause> that probably would have meant it would have been even more impossible to get a car in the east
02:57:57  <supermop_home> true
02:58:41  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean, you had like 18 years waiting time towards the end, so some people enlisted their newborn kids, so they could have a car at their 18th birthday
02:59:06  <supermop_home> I also dont know enough about how the car factories were set up to understand how any profit from export would be distributed
02:59:28  <Eddi|zuHause> loads of things were produced for export
02:59:35  <supermop_home> but it seems if there was an export market, it would have been more palatable to raise the quota?
03:00:02  <Eddi|zuHause> like, ikea stuff and so on
03:01:02  <supermop_home> Eddi|zuHause yeah that's why I was so confused - it seemed to me that DDR would have been well situated to produce various consumer and specialist goods for export within and outside eastern bloc, so why not with cars
03:01:48  <supermop_home> and why could you buy a lada in the us back then but not an east german car
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03:04:30  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't really know a lot about economy, but within the eastern bloc there were often dedicated production roles, so only one country was allowed to build trams and stuff
03:04:40  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe only one country was allowed to export cars
03:05:16  <supermop_home> you mentioned once that all the computers came from Russia?
03:05:33  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think i said that
03:05:42  <supermop_home> hmm ok
03:06:14  <Eddi|zuHause> i might have said that i have leftovers from a crate where a (giant) computer was delivered to our university
03:11:38  <supermop_home> damn google photos thinks all these cortados are lattes
03:12:31  <supermop_home> it made a bunch of automatic albums categorized by the subject of the photo,
03:12:57  <supermop_home> but it has a bunch of pictures of a river as an album called lakes
03:13:17  <supermop_home> a picture of a cocktail as 'beer'
03:13:49  <supermop_home> and a picture of a subway entrance as a 'skyscraper'
03:14:48  <supermop_home> also a picture of a coffee in the 'trains' album
03:20:17  <supermop_home> would you recommend buying TF or civ 6?
03:23:27  <Eddi|zuHause> TF
03:23:46  <Eddi|zuHause> wait till civ6 is 50% or 75% off
03:26:37  <supermop_home> any particular reason to get it on steam versus just buying it on the website?
03:27:21  <Eddi|zuHause> ... if you want valve to get 30% of your money...
03:28:07  <Eddi|zuHause> (disclaimer: i don't know the actual value)
03:28:59  <supermop_home> hmm. what is steam workshop?
03:29:24  <Eddi|zuHause> place where people can publish mods
03:29:26  <supermop_home> if i can avoid steam annoying me by running all the time that's a positive in my book
03:29:48  <Eddi|zuHause> i think you need to activate it on steam regardless
03:32:31  <Eddi|zuHause> and if your only problem with steam is that it annoys you during the game, just disable the overlay
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09:23:26  <Wolf01> Moin
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14:20:04  <supermop> good morning
14:21:14  <crem_> Indeed, decent morning.
14:28:04  <supermop> here it is warm and sunny compared to yesterday, so i'll count it as good
14:38:37  <Eddi|zuHause> here is grey and snowing
14:39:58  <Alkel_U3> here it's also gray but at least not -20 °C anymore
14:44:40  <V453000> anus
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14:59:23  <Alberth> hi hi
14:59:26  <supermop> hi
15:06:05  <Wolf01> o/
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16:47:14  <Lejving> anyone got any docks eyecandy they can share?
16:47:30  <Lejving> esp with ship depots
16:48:16  <supermop> isr
16:48:30  <Lejving> looking for pics :D
16:48:34  <Lejving> to get inspiration
16:49:01  <Lejving> oh good I added isr/dwe objects to the map heh
16:51:06  <supermop> regular isr has a nice ship depot with no roof
16:51:32  <Lejving> ah crap can't change newgrf now it's on openttdcoop
16:51:44  <Lejving> gonna have to remember that for next time
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18:12:22  <frosch123> hoi
18:18:52  <Alberth> o/
18:21:29  <Wolf01> Quak
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18:40:03  <andythenorth> o/
18:46:25  <supermop> yo andy
18:49:26  <andythenorth> lo
18:53:29  <supermop> bastardizing firs bits for depots
18:53:42  <andythenorth> we should all go to Canadia
18:55:43  <supermop> i like the stripes
18:55:51  <V453000> I hate everything.
18:56:10  <andythenorth> or Indonesia
18:57:39  <andythenorth> V453000: do you hate this Large Freighter?
18:57:51  <supermop> i hope that s bend was built just for picturesque-ness
18:58:14  <V453000> andythenorth: gold ships?
18:58:17  <V453000> bling bling?
18:58:20  <andythenorth> pretty good eh?
18:58:29  <V453000> sick
18:58:36  <V453000> it's missing just slug bits
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18:58:52  <V453000> small tanker is pure art
18:59:27  <V453000> really nice shits overall
19:00:38  <andythenorth> I could make more like small tanker
19:00:46  <andythenorth> I could randomly composite bits of ships
19:00:50  <andythenorth> probably fine
19:02:13  <V453000> :D
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19:03:12  <supermop> random ships each play through
19:04:46  <Maraxus> anyone here have experience in solving "your computer is too slow to keep up with the server" problems?
19:05:14  <andythenorth> in my limited experience, it was the connection, not the computer
19:05:15  <andythenorth> but eh
19:05:19  <andythenorth> that varies
19:07:31  <V453000> I like the stripes on edibles tanker and fridge
19:07:34  <Maraxus> so dl speed/ping/some other thing?
19:07:35  <V453000> nice differentiating
19:07:52  <V453000> andythenorth: if the game has 3000 trains ... :)
19:09:33  <andythenorth> V453000: :o who’d do that?
19:09:42  <V453000> we do
19:09:59  <Maraxus> we would - we had a game with 5k trains
19:14:21  <frosch123> bandwidth is only relevant when joining a game
19:15:03  <V453000> that's the case I think
19:15:10  <Maraxus> how much do you need in general terms to join a game?
19:15:31  <frosch123> a bit more than the server :)
19:15:46  <frosch123> (i mean cpu power)
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19:16:19  <frosch123> if you mean bandwidth for joining: that is actually also only relevant if the game is not paused for joining clients
19:17:14  <ephja> hills. hills everywhere :p
19:17:18  <andythenorth> in my case, I needed a connection that stayed up :P
19:17:23  <andythenorth> but eh
19:18:29  <Maraxus> it is paused and I have no problem downloading the map, but moving around on the map is a slideshow until it disconnects
19:18:54  <V453000> sounds like cpu
19:19:38  <Maraxus> so i5 2.4 ghz not enough?
19:20:24  <frosch123> or get a slower server :)
19:20:29  <frosch123> clients wait for the server
19:20:35  <frosch123> the server does not wait for clients
19:21:18  <frosch123> anyway, you should also check whether it's the game simulation or the drawing that takes the cpui
19:21:50  <frosch123> e.g. resize the game window to something considerably smaller
19:22:08  <frosch123> or try the other 8bpp/32bpp options
19:22:09  <V453000> u haz 32bpp or 8bpp on?
19:22:12  <V453000> ye
19:22:54  <andythenorth> false colour is badass
19:23:02  <andythenorth> I should just keep it
19:23:10  <V453000> 11/10
19:23:22  <andythenorth> Maraxus: disabled ‘full animation’?
19:24:25  <Maraxus> how do I do that?
19:27:07  <andythenorth> spanner / wrench / gear icon on main toolbar
19:27:38  <andythenorth> V453000: how about a complete baseset + grfs in false colour? o_O
19:28:09  <frosch123> basesets cannot enforce the violet smallmap schema
19:28:47  <Maraxus> full animation/detail are off
19:29:29  <frosch123> save the game locally, load it as singleplayer, stop all vehicles and check whether that makes a difference :)
19:46:00  <V453000> hm I have like 1 fps as well
19:46:08  <V453000> something is very wtf
19:46:43  <frosch123> did you setup silly orders again? :)
19:46:49  <V453000> no just normal refit
19:47:16  <V453000> I've never seen this amount of lag
19:48:11  <V453000> and it's not just spikes
19:48:29  <V453000> constant 1fps slideshow like maraxus says
19:48:35  <V453000> I remain connected, ok :D
19:48:58  <V453000> trying to disable 32bpp and shit
19:52:56  <V453000> 1fps with 32bpp, 2fps with 8bpp :d
19:53:06  <V453000> some people on our server actually don't have problems
19:54:45  <V453000> in singleplayer I am kind of ok
19:55:54  <V453000> threads 0 and 2 are kind of busy but not 100% maxed
19:57:05  <Maraxus> runs fine in singleplayer for me
19:57:27  <V453000> same here
20:00:40  <frosch123> is it the public server?
20:01:12  <V453000> yes
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20:02:01  <V453000> come join :P
20:02:31  <frosch123> server is at 51% cpu
20:03:47  <andythenorth> I ruined the small tanker :P
20:04:40  <andythenorth> Wolf01: seen the towtruck prelim image?
20:04:52  <Wolf01> No?
20:05:03  <frosch123> load some tanks onto the tanker
20:05:29  <andythenorth> Wolf01: ygm
20:05:32  <andythenorth> forums
20:05:52  <andythenorth> frosch123: liquid tanks, or blowing things up tanks?
20:06:40  <Wolf01> Holy shit
20:08:36  <andythenorth> Wolf01: see the teddy bear? o_O
20:08:42  <Wolf01> Yup
20:08:56  <Wolf01> I hope it will make to the final version :D
20:09:28  <Wolf01> Claas tyres?
20:09:44  <andythenorth> aparently
20:13:09  <andythenorth> looks military, even if it’s azure blue :P
20:13:24  <Wolf01> It's wonderful
20:15:45  <andythenorth>
20:17:04  <andythenorth>
20:17:14  * andythenorth should add tow trucks to hog :P
20:19:27  <Wolf01> :D
20:19:31  <Wolf01> And tow what?
20:20:17  <andythenorth> yeah...
20:20:25  <V453000> IRRELEVANT
20:20:27  <andythenorth> Wolf01: this would be awesome with batman tyres
20:20:27  <V453000> TOW IT
20:20:32  <V453000> tow slugs
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20:21:20  <supermop> slugs were too much for andy
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20:23:37  <V453000> na
20:23:43  <V453000> he fine
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20:25:21  <andythenorth> such towing
20:30:28  <Wolf01> The transmitters seem to be really a problem
20:37:04  * andythenorth wonders how hard this would be to recreate
20:37:11  <andythenorth> and whether python is fast enough :P
20:41:25  <andythenorth> that game ran on a ~5 MIPS ARM 2 chip
20:42:51  <andythenorth> my laptop kicks around about 100k MIPS
20:42:56  <andythenorth> but python is slow eh? o_O
20:47:00  <andythenorth> interview with the developer :D
20:47:03  <andythenorth> peter1138: ^
20:48:43  <frosch123> V453000: since when do you run logic trains at 2000 kmh?
20:48:59  <andythenorth> oh he wrote the same first program I did
20:49:02  <andythenorth> 10 print ‘fuck’
20:49:04  <andythenorth> 20 goto 10
20:49:06  <andythenorth> oops
20:50:33  <SpComb> andythenorth: what FPS does that run at, it doesn't look like 60fps :P
20:50:48  <andythenorth> 'less'
20:51:35  <frosch123> V453000: on third though, i think it's indeed just cpu power
20:52:00  <SpComb> I would guess that to be feasible in Python, especially if you're able to offload a reasonable amount of the pixel-pushing to pygame
20:52:14  <SpComb> like rendering individual sprites with some 3D transformations
20:52:48  <SpComb> ofc if you go into some kind of Python+OpenGL then even more so
20:54:53  <SpComb> wow, the experience is really weird.. they have like three different web pages in one
20:56:53  <andythenorth> that game just ran on the CPU
20:57:21  * andythenorth wonders how hard it can be :P
20:57:53  <andythenorth> not sure how python draws to the screen though
20:58:32  <Milek7> why in python?
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20:58:49  <andythenorth> because I only currently know python
20:59:13  <andythenorth> I suspect it can’t be done
20:59:22  <SpComb> andythenorth: pygame can handle the actual pixel-pushing outside of Python
20:59:45  <andythenorth> an 8MHz CPU drawing directly to the screen buffer is probably faster than python on an i7 via everything my OS puts in between python and the screen :P
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21:03:07  <SpComb> I'm not seeing a lot of 3D rendering support
21:03:28  <SpComb> need some 3D transform matrices
21:06:03  <SpComb>
21:07:03  <andythenorth> I should probably do a polygon drawing tutorial :P
21:09:14  <SpComb>
21:11:41  <SpComb> this code seems horrible, and it's supposedly the best example of 3D rendering in PyGame :P
21:11:44  <SpComb> maybe it's a bad idea
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21:14:37  <andythenorth> it’s a lot of stuff :)
21:15:14  <andythenorth> oh it’s plastering bitmaps onto surfaces?
21:20:16  <V453000> frosch123: 2000kmh has been the standard speed for logic trains for us since we used them pretty much
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21:39:34  <ephja> is there a wiki article counter somewhere?
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22:00:27  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:01:11  <Eddi|zuHause> what would be the point of such a counter?
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22:01:35  <supermop> maybe it's a physical counter, like a help desk
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23:07:01  <ephja> Eddi|zuHause: I dunno
23:07:27  <ephja> my monorail train goes in and out of the depot ad infinitum for some reason. all tracks have been converted
23:09:08  <ephja> hm wait
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23:24:05  <ephja> nvm
23:33:07  <glx> I guess a missing tile in the conversion ;)
23:45:37  <ephja> is there a point in providing town growth when there are cities available?
23:47:23  *** maciozo has quit IRC
23:47:30  <ephja> I guess not
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