Log for #openttd on 18th February 2017:
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00:36:55  <Wolf01> 'night
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07:47:51  <snadge> this channel is yuge
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07:51:03  <snadge> im about to dive into the code, and am looking for documnetation.. but how does the music engine work? is that a built in soft synth?
07:51:18  <snadge> im kinda hoping to override the output midi device
07:53:22  <snadge> LOL figured it out.. just used coolsoft midi mapper to change the default output device
07:53:48  <snadge> so now its the original score being played via a roland sc-880 ;)
07:54:07  <snadge> into sennheiser studio headphones
07:59:04  <andythenorth> shiny
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08:12:20  <Eddi|zuHause> snadge: my first attempt would be the os/xxx_m.cpp files
08:12:51  <Eddi|zuHause> possibly they moved into some subdirectories in the past 10 years...
08:14:18  <Eddi|zuHause> snadge: anyway, there should be an "extmidi" driver, which you can use to override via the command line
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08:58:50  * andythenorth needs to draw “Vehicle Bodies” for CHIPS
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09:04:39  <Alberth> moin
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09:11:33  <andythenorth> hi Alberth
09:18:20  <andythenorth> cement cargo: bulk piles?
09:18:27  <andythenorth> or bags?
09:18:46  <andythenorth> bags won’t look like bags at TTD scale, they’ll look like blobs
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09:25:16  <Alberth> platforms don't have enough room for proper piles, imho
09:25:47  <Alberth> I prefer stacks, gives more variation
09:27:35  <Alberth> got a bit tired of not having a unique name in the tar/zipfile :p
09:36:40  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: make whole stacks of bags
09:38:35  <Alberth> :o steel finishing plant, how nice
09:39:51  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: probably I should
09:40:07  <andythenorth> I need sacks for cargos like wool also
09:40:12  <andythenorth> and same sprites would work
09:40:28  <andythenorth> recolouring the bulk cargo would be easier :)
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09:46:14  <Alberth> you're clustering the quarries?
09:46:43  <andythenorth> yes
09:47:02  <andythenorth> I am +/-0 to clustering
09:47:09  <andythenorth> but players seem to like it :|
09:47:10  <Alberth> looks nice
09:47:49  <Alberth> it avoids evenly distribution across the entire map, somewhat
09:48:13  <Alberth> instead you get a few points with heaps of sand and stones
09:48:24  <Alberth> moooaaar trainz needed :)
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09:58:18  <andythenorth> ha, bulk cement doesn’t show up on concrete CHIPS tiles :)
10:01:32  <andythenorth> maybe I should split tyres from vehicle parts
10:01:41  <andythenorth> then they could be shown as cargo….
10:05:54  <Alberth> what does "Not producing" mean, as it just made 266t
10:07:08  <Alberth>  perhaps you're missing a "must supply all input cargoes" boolean parameter, for "hard cargo" players :p
10:08:03  <Alberth> or produce more if the balance is more even :p
10:08:31  <andythenorth> sadly, the strings are all broken :)
10:08:44  <andythenorth> fixing them is both a code problem and a design problem :)
10:09:04  <andythenorth> that parameter might be a valid one
10:09:31  <andythenorth> “Require all input cargos: never | some industries only | always”
10:10:16  <andythenorth> for the industry text, ‘delivered within last three months’ is too long
10:11:30  <andythenorth> ✓ would probably be sufficient :P
10:11:56  <Alberth> recently delivered
10:11:57  <andythenorth> or two lists: Delivered / Required
10:12:23  <andythenorth> the ‘three months’ is redundant detail? o_O
10:12:49  <Alberth> delivered last quarter
10:13:01  <andythenorth> ‘delivered’ ?
10:13:06  * andythenorth thinks strip it right down
10:13:08  <Alberth> would work too
10:14:07  <Alberth> ha, also have a parameter "process in equal quantities"
10:15:08  <Alberth> and produce more, to tease people into playing it :p
10:15:58  * andythenorth wonders if the ratios are just over-thinking it
10:16:05  <andythenorth> but 3 into 8 doesn’t go neatly :)
10:16:56  <Alberth> you need something to steer the player in delivering the "right" cargoes
10:18:05  <Alberth> balancing input would open a new way of playing
10:18:21  <Alberth> although you then also need somewhat stock-piling-ish
10:18:40  <Alberth> but less rigid than ecs
10:19:33  <andythenorth> I think the old display of the ratios guided ‘right’ cargos?
10:19:46  <andythenorth> not sure the new text is better
10:19:54  <Alberth> for me it did, generally
10:20:03  <andythenorth> I only started the new text to reduce translation maintenance
10:20:31  <Alberth> you could do "needed", "recommended", and "accepted" or so
10:20:45  <andythenorth> hmm, if I revert to old, it  will be a big manual merge :D
10:20:47  <andythenorth> ugh
10:21:13  <Alberth> this is why branches can be useful :p
10:21:53  <andythenorth> isn’t it :)
10:22:47  <Alberth> the displayed string is just wrong thus?
10:23:02  <andythenorth> the ‘not producing’ is wrong
10:23:11  <andythenorth> the ‘required’ / ‘delivered’ are accurate
10:24:48  <Alberth> seems that way indeed
10:25:38  <andythenorth> ‘Current efficient: zero’ also wrong
10:27:06  <Alberth> :)
10:27:21  <Alberth> "help!"
10:28:11  <Alberth>   <-- you could add a pipeline, every now and then :p
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10:32:21  <Wolf01> o/
10:32:49  <Alberth> moin
10:33:19  <andythenorth> use the PIPE grf :)
10:33:50  <andythenorth> PIPE should be redone as NRT, and Wolf01 should finish the ‘no crossings’ patch that we said wasn’t needed :)
10:34:02  <andythenorth> ‘no crossings’ would be useful for a PIPE hack on NRT
10:34:09  <Wolf01> The patch *is* finished
10:35:32  <andythenorth> Alberth: you’re using the Dutch translation in FIRS?
10:35:44  <Wolf01> I had the idea to add a "no bridges" flag too (to disable $roadtype bridges, not bridges over $roadtype") some time ago, and I think it would come handy to supermop
10:36:08  <Wolf01> *bridges AND tunnels, that is
10:38:10  <Alberth> I do, currently
10:38:53  <Alberth> andythenorth: oh, sorry, no I don't, I use dutch town names only
10:38:59  <andythenorth> ok, well
10:39:05  <andythenorth> is stripped to just ‘required'
10:39:10  <andythenorth> should be savegame safe
10:39:53  <Alberth> you're tempting me to break the newgrf-update rule eh? :)
10:40:07  <andythenorth> just don’t post your bug report in the forum when it breaks :P
10:40:28  <Alberth> haha :)
10:40:30  <andythenorth> I probably get about 99% success rate on newgrf updates
10:40:43  <andythenorth> and 1 in 100 will crash openttd, or unrecoverably destroy my game
10:40:58  <Alberth> yeah, but you know exactly what you changed :)
10:41:02  <andythenorth> yup
10:41:09  <Alberth> that helps :)
10:41:14  <andythenorth> so this industry window text remains pretty unsatisfactory
10:41:44  <andythenorth> it repeats the required cargos, and is generally hard to understand
10:41:46  <Alberth> needs some work
10:46:30  <andythenorth>
10:46:45  <andythenorth> I’ve wanted the ‘needed’ / ‘delivered’ text for years
10:47:08  <andythenorth> to see quickly whether cargos are getting delivered frequently
10:47:22  <andythenorth> but it’s confusing unless you really understand FIRS
10:47:36  <andythenorth> does ‘delivered’ mean you can’t deliver more?
10:47:42  <andythenorth> does the industry have ‘enough’?
10:47:51  <andythenorth> maybe it has closed the stockpile? etc
10:50:24  <Alberth> provided
10:50:26  <Alberth> ?
10:50:42  <Alberth> sufficient
10:51:33  * andythenorth wondering if we have any glyphs that could be made red / green
10:51:37  <Alberth> supply secured
10:51:40  <Alberth> supplied
10:51:42  <andythenorth> it’s just a guide, not an instruction
10:51:57  <andythenorth> it’s like the red/green in the vehicle list for profit
10:52:02  <Alberth> yay!
10:52:32  <andythenorth> the ‘required: [cargos]’ is also repeating the ‘cargo waiting to be processed'
10:52:33  <Alberth> red/green is horrible for people that are colour blind
10:52:37  <andythenorth> I know :|
10:52:55  <andythenorth> ideal would be two different glyphs
10:53:04  <andythenorth> presumably I could extend openttd base font?
10:53:53  <Alberth> I wonder how script pages do that
10:54:35  <Alberth> euhm, *story pages
10:55:06  <andythenorth> ah there’s a tick mark here
10:55:15  <Alberth> available
10:55:17  <andythenorth> but not in nml
10:57:43  <Alberth> neither in translation
10:58:38  * andythenorth patches nml to test
10:58:59  <Alberth> I got those from openttd source, and not from nml, iirc
10:59:26  <Alberth> but some were dropped, as they were not useful, iirc
10:59:37  <andythenorth> maybe newgrf docs are outdated
10:59:47  <Alberth> frosch might know
11:01:40  <Alberth> src/table/strgen_tables.h  has a checkmark, but no cross, it seems
11:01:55  <andythenorth> newgrf docs say “X mark"
11:02:01  <andythenorth> on offset AD
11:02:08  <Alberth> euhm, it's just below the check mark :p
11:02:18  <andythenorth> I didn’t see it until the 3rd time I looked :P
11:02:20  <Alberth> I should try reading :p
11:04:26  <Alberth> just keep the text, write 2 lines of text about in the do-not-readme, and you're done :)
11:05:07  <andythenorth> it has become a project now :)
11:19:30  <andythenorth>
11:19:42  <andythenorth> Alberth: bit ugly, but…more sense? ^
11:24:28  <Alberth> would work, what does "Required:" mean
11:24:42  <andythenorth> I am trying to simplify further
11:24:48  * andythenorth waits for compile
11:26:26  <Alberth> "(ok)" would be a textual alternative
11:27:09  <Alberth> "Recently delivered:"   instead of "Required:" ?
11:27:23  <Alberth> or "Delivered in last three months:"
11:27:50  <Alberth> do you have optional cargoes?
11:28:15  <andythenorth> unfortunately
11:28:23  <andythenorth> sometimes
11:28:37  <andythenorth> too much detail imho
11:29:05  <Alberth> those do not count in gung-ho etc, I guess
11:30:12  <andythenorth>
11:31:05  <Alberth> :O  pretty
11:31:49  <Alberth> I wonder if that really needs a list of 3 lines, but fair enough
11:32:48  <andythenorth> well I can’t control the ‘cargo waiting to be processed’ text :)
11:32:57  <andythenorth> which is pointless here
11:34:06  <Alberth> .. within three moinths: Iron Ore ✔ Coke ✔ Stone (lacking)"
11:34:27  <andythenorth> I’ll patch nml and see what the x looks like
11:34:49  <Alberth> yeah, I know about the stupid text
11:34:57  <Alberth> ✗   <- like that :p
11:36:05  <andythenorth> stupid text is fixable :)
11:36:17  <andythenorth> just one of those too-many things that it’s hoped frosch will do :)
11:37:09  <Alberth> yeah, but so far the text is still winning :p
11:37:22  <andythenorth> I am going to start patching more things :P
11:37:26  <andythenorth> ineptly
11:37:39  <andythenorth> but not while so many newgrfs are in unreleasable state
11:39:12  <andythenorth> with 2 cargos (and this industry has some extra info text)
11:39:13  <andythenorth>
11:44:18  <andythenorth> oh
11:44:45  <Alberth> "Produces stuff." isn't terribly relevant
11:45:18  <Alberth> add it to the documentation :)
11:45:24  <andythenorth>
11:45:38  <andythenorth> x is large font for some reason :P
11:46:10  <Alberth> {small}{cross}  :p
11:46:25  <Alberth> may not exist though
11:46:53  <Alberth> this may also be the reason why checkmark and cross were dropped
11:46:55  <andythenorth> can’t use {small} in this window
11:47:05  <andythenorth> there’s no way to reset back to normal
11:47:25  <Alberth> silly openttd
11:47:31  <andythenorth> was it frosch who wanted to replace all string handling with some text framework? o_O
11:47:37  <andythenorth> someone did
11:47:45  <Alberth> I would not be surprised
11:48:33  <Alberth> zuu perhaps, he tried to make clickable town names and so on
11:48:46  <Alberth> maybe that even works
11:48:57  <andythenorth> it does in some places
11:58:03  <andythenorth> Alberth: you think I should drop the ‘extra info’ text that some industries have?
12:03:23  <andythenorth> it’s only used at 13 out of 82 industries
12:03:30  <andythenorth> answer is probably self-evident :)
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12:25:50  <Alberth> it's nice side-information, perhaps modellers like it
12:26:17  <Alberth> I typically just read the the accepted cargoes and often the ratios too
12:26:41  <andythenorth> I’ve deleted it, but kept the strings locally in case I reuse them in docs
12:26:50  <Alberth> for more experienced players, they can probably draw the cargo flow from their head
12:27:02  <andythenorth> even I can’t do that :)
12:27:09  <andythenorth> I have to use the cargo flow window a lot
12:27:50  <Alberth> yeah, the text is definitely useful, I think even the picture links you paste here would be fun to add
12:28:24  <Alberth> you play all economies, and your focus is not playing :p
12:29:34  <Alberth> if you play the one favourite economy every day, you know what to connect within a month :)
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12:38:10  * andythenorth has deleted all the extra text
12:38:22  <andythenorth> better now
12:41:56  <Alberth> less cluttered :)
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13:03:42  <andythenorth> Alberth: if you’re still playing…
13:04:20  <andythenorth> bundles won’t build, because I patched nml
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13:08:50  <Wolf01> <andythenorth> x is large font for some reason :P <- to catch more attention
13:10:08  <andythenorth> heh
13:10:18  * andythenorth trying to figure out where the glyphs come from :P
13:10:27  <andythenorth> scaling or drawing an x can’t be hard
13:10:43  <andythenorth> moar patches
13:12:02  <Wolf01> tow trucks... tow trucks everywhere
13:12:17  <andythenorth> yeah
13:12:21  <andythenorth> that thread is weird though
13:13:13  <Wolf01> I have a nasty problem with eb forum, I can't change pages on topics, it happen for you too?
13:14:46  <andythenorth> yup
13:14:49  <andythenorth> seems to be webkit
13:15:00  <Wolf01> I'm on firefox...
13:15:01  <andythenorth> I tried digging through the JS calls to find the problem
13:15:08  <andythenorth> but eh, I am not good at JS debugging
13:15:26  <Wolf01> I was, but now I forgot everything about js :P
13:15:27  <andythenorth> they claim it’s contention on the DB
13:15:32  <andythenorth> but I would be surprised by that
13:16:07  <Wolf01> I change page then hit F5, it works
13:16:13  <andythenorth> same here
13:16:25  <Wolf01> So I thing it's just shitty js
13:16:31  <andythenorth> it’s something in the fancy scroll-fade crap they applied
13:16:32  <Wolf01> *think
13:16:53  <andythenorth> _could_ be DB locks failing to clear, because they might have to lock if you’re editing a reply
13:16:58  <andythenorth> but that sounds like piss-poor design to me
13:17:00  <Wolf01> Also on edge is broken beyond help
13:17:18  <andythenorth> all my favourite forums except tt-forums have gone crap recently
13:17:20  <andythenorth> all upgraded
13:17:24  <andythenorth> and worse
13:17:27  <Wolf01> Yep
13:17:31  <andythenorth> and it’s not just because I’m 39
13:17:33  <andythenorth> and fear change
13:17:55  <andythenorth> PHP-BB is just more reliable and has less shit
13:18:30  <Wolf01> People want only fancy things with glitter, then make loads of bug reports
13:19:01  <Wolf01> I still have a SMF 1.x
13:19:58  <Wolf01> Which works like a charm, after a fix for the config file which got emptied instead of a cache file
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13:58:05  <supermop> yo
13:58:10  <Wolf01> o/
13:58:28  <supermop> who wants some cobblestone stams?
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13:58:46  <andythenorth> you do? o_O
13:58:54  <supermop> also current sv goal: Metal Valley
13:59:09  <supermop> pretty metal
13:59:20  <supermop> grf is 'done'
13:59:48  <supermop> well done enough I might set the version to 0.1.0 instead of just 0
14:04:04  <andythenorth> ship it then
14:04:07  <andythenorth> got a repo?
14:12:41  <supermop> repo is a folder on my google drive
14:15:02  <supermop> hmm this computer has a new hog than nrt hog on it
14:15:48  <andythenorth> you need the NRT branch?
14:16:10  <supermop> no I have it here, it just doesn't show up to select for a new game
14:16:16  <supermop> need to delete 1.2.0
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14:19:26  <frosch123> "What has happened to the airport in this game, i love this game but why you have changed the style of the airport.Plz tell me how to fix it because i want that international airport not this muddy airport. What to do." <- anyone interested in moving to first level support?
14:19:46  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: there is a hidden setting to show all grf versions, not just the newest
14:20:26  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: I vaugely recalled that but was faster to close game and delete grf than look it up
14:21:02  <Eddi|zuHause> just open the console and type "list_settings grf"?
14:22:16  <andythenorth> frosch123: I’ll trade you that for supporting FIRS? o_O
14:22:34  <andythenorth> also where is that?
14:23:16  <frosch123> andythenorth: email
14:23:20  <andythenorth> oic :)
14:23:36  * andythenorth never checks email, so I would be no good there
14:27:11  <Alberth> hola
14:27:51  <supermop> having trouble getting a map that makes the ideal quaint port for a screenshot
14:28:34  <Alberth> you can sculpture the land yourself :)
14:29:42  <andythenorth> supermop you know about ‘newgame’ in console?
14:30:00  <supermop> i no almost nothing about the console
14:30:11  <supermop> including how to spell know
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14:35:35  <frosch123> andythenorth: Alberth: we did not add any of the glyphs to nml/eints, because they do not scale with the font selection. there were opinions to remove them completely, like we removed the setxy stuff in the past
14:37:30  <andythenorth> I could ship this
14:37:48  <andythenorth> I like the ticks, but I had to remove them to placate coop Jenkins
14:38:08  <andythenorth> the ticks are neater
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14:40:57  <andythenorth> cargo label for Vehicle Bodies?
14:41:03  <andythenorth> Vehicle Parts is VPTS
14:41:08  <andythenorth> VBDS?
14:41:26  <andythenorth> or VBOD?
14:41:40  <frosch123> VBOD is better
14:41:44  <andythenorth> ta
14:41:51  <frosch123> the plural S is silly :)
14:41:58  <andythenorth> also that will now break my savegame :)
14:41:59  <andythenorth> nvm
14:45:48  * andythenorth has had 3-4 days of OpenTTD coding time :)
14:45:53  <andythenorth> it’s fun, when you get a run at it
14:46:01  <andythenorth> usually much interruptions
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14:51:26  <Wolf01> I think I have some spare time today to work on that fantastic function for checking the availability of road/railtype
14:57:10  <andythenorth> o_O
14:58:15  <Wolf01> First: frosch123 you asked for a function to be used in gui, commands, and scripts, should the scope be passed as parameter or I must figure it out?
15:00:03  <frosch123> what is the scope needed for?
15:00:28  <Wolf01> Could be used to decide whether check on the company or not
15:00:40  <frosch123> i would pass the company as parameter
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15:01:04  <frosch123> and not use _current_company, _local_company or other globals
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15:06:43  <andythenorth> hmm
15:06:52  <andythenorth> and now the great FIRS Extreme rework begins :P
15:06:54  <andythenorth> by accident
15:07:02  * andythenorth regrets this in advance
15:09:27  <frosch123> make a browser-based puzzle game
15:09:56  <frosch123> build an economy with <N cargos and <M industries
15:10:49  <Wolf01> IsCompanyBuildableVehicleType() <- there are any not buildable vehicle types?
15:10:54  <Eddi|zuHause> sounds a bit like that "design an airport" minigame from ages ago, for the newairports that never happened
15:11:09  <frosch123> Wolf01: disaster and effect
15:11:36  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: factory smoke, steam puffs, submarine, ufo, ...
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15:22:43  <Wolf01> Mmmh, one thing I didn't consider, is it possible to disable a roadtype for a climate?
15:23:25  <Wolf01> There's a check in the dropdown build code "if (!HasBit(e->info.climates, _settings_game.game_creation.landscape)) continue;" but I don't know how effective it could be
15:24:38  <Wolf01> I copied it straight from rail_gui
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15:24:57  <frosch123> that checks vehicle availability
15:25:02  <frosch123> "e" is a engine
15:25:49  <Wolf01> Yep, but it's for ROAD and TRAM, not for HAUL ELRD etc
15:26:10  <Wolf01> ?
15:27:40  <frosch123> that is just a line afterwards
15:27:46  <frosch123> first check basetype, then check subtype
15:32:09  *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
15:32:31  <Eddi|zuHause> so wtf is up with my ISP lately...
15:33:02  <frosch123> they have trouble providing the cpu power required for filtering and logging
15:33:17  <frosch123> disable https and it may improve
15:33:58  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: NFO-wise you can check climate in an action6/7/9/D and skip the definiton of the roadtype. that's probably an if-block in NML
15:35:00  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: for the game that would mean the roadtype simply doesn't exist
15:35:14  <Wolf01> That's even better
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15:36:57  <Wolf01> I would like to move the loops outside the dropdown building code
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15:39:06  <Wolf01> Where's better to place them? vechicle.cpp or road.cpp/rail.cpp?
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15:39:24  <frosch123> road/rail
15:39:50  <frosch123> VehicleExistsForRoadType/RailType or something
15:40:01  <frosch123> possibly with a "now/somewhen" parameter
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15:40:37  <Eddi|zuHause> is there a vehicle_cmd.cpp?
15:40:54  <Wolf01> Yes, there is
15:41:11  <Eddi|zuHause> possibly groundvehicle or something
15:41:13  <frosch123> yes, but there is no equivalent function for ships or aircraft, and even road/rail would take different parameters
15:41:43  <frosch123> and the other road/rail functions are also in road/rail.cpp or roadveh/train.cpp
15:48:15  <supermop>
15:48:50  <andythenorth> nicely played
15:49:53  <supermop> ok lets see some steam tram screenshots in this month's steam themed screenshot of the month topic
15:49:57  <Wolf01>
15:52:00  <andythenorth> supermop: I should merge docklands into CHIPS :)
15:52:40  <frosch123> Wolf01: only_existing=true does not consider vehicle introduction and date-based roadtype introduction
15:52:42  <supermop> worst practices andy
15:53:04  <supermop> soon there will be only one andy.grf
15:53:15  <supermop> with everything included
15:53:16  <frosch123> i think only_existing=true requires a companyid, since vehicle availability is based on companies or so
15:53:47  <andythenorth> seems to me the types you’ve added are a facet of stations :)
15:53:56  <andythenorth> stick em in the station grf :)
15:54:05  * andythenorth knows it’s wrong, but eh
15:54:09  <frosch123> "use ground sprite from neighbour tiles" :)
15:54:42  <andythenorth> :P
15:56:08  <supermop> next need to make log flumes as roadtype
15:56:23  <frosch123> anyway, finally some dirt road :)
15:57:12  <andythenorth> I should make heavy haul vehicles compatible with it
15:57:15  <andythenorth> but they sink in
15:57:17  <andythenorth> 1mph
15:57:33  <supermop> frosch123: I'm waiting to see if andrew350 is going to split arrs into asphalt/dirt/cobble
15:57:37  <frosch123> add a refit option for bigger tires
15:57:43  <supermop> if not I might do it myself
15:58:05  <supermop> next we need heqs and egrvts forks
15:58:24  <supermop> and trolley busses in ogfx+rvs
15:58:32  <andythenorth> RV revival
15:59:04  <supermop> more rvs = more people making road types
15:59:14  <supermop> brb
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16:01:49  <andythenorth> what’s left for NRT? o_O
16:01:58  <frosch123> script api :)
16:02:03  <frosch123> and what wolf is doing
16:05:57  *** Progman has joined #openttd
16:15:00  * andythenorth looks at nogo for railtypes
16:16:48  <andythenorth> some
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16:25:56  <Wolf01> <frosch123> i think only_existing=true requires a companyid, since vehicle availability is based on companies or so <- something like this? HasBit(c->avail_roadtypes[rtid.basetype], rtid.subtype)
16:26:58  <Wolf01> But it's not really for the single vehicle, it is for the entire roadsubtype
16:27:19  <Wolf01> So at least one vehicle should exist for that, or should exist in future
16:35:28  <frosch123> i thought that is what "only_existing" was about
16:41:12  <Wolf01> I think you mean the second part, that one which does the actual job of filling the dropdown list
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16:42:30  <Wolf01> I think I must add both loops in the function and then loop the result again in the places where is needed
16:43:09  <Wolf01> Loop or check for set bit
16:57:07  <andythenorth>
16:57:14  <andythenorth> ^ could make that weird pseudo-primary
16:57:28  <andythenorth> as Haber process makes fertiliser from air
16:58:06  <andythenorth> it could produce x / month without any input
17:06:01  <Wolf01> <- frosch123
17:09:06  <frosch123> i still do not understand what "only_existing" is supposed to do
17:10:02  <frosch123> you can replace the second loop with a single "&", right?
17:10:27  <frosch123> available_roadsubtypes = known_roadtype & company->avail_roadtypes[rtid.basetype]
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17:11:02  <andythenorth> why does FIRS have min_cargo_distr set to 5? o_O
17:11:03  <frosch123> but at the same time i Company::avail_roadtypes is already a subset of known_roadtype
17:11:09  * andythenorth has no recollection
17:11:17  <frosch123> so you could just return Company::avail_roadtypes directly
17:11:30  <frosch123> andythenorth: it's the default value?
17:11:37  <Wolf01> But it doesn't have future ones
17:11:42  <Wolf01> For SE
17:13:11  <andythenorth> frosch123: is that definitely the default?  Can’t figure out how to search for it in ottd src
17:13:20  <andythenorth> I can stop declaring it 72 times if it’s default :P
17:17:34  <frosch123> <- Wolf01: i think those are the 3 modes that make sense
17:18:45  <frosch123> andythenorth: there is no "default", it's just "what most do"
17:18:51  <frosch123> i think forests have like 24 or so
17:20:12  <andythenorth> seems FIRS has mostly 5, sometimes 1 or 2
17:20:13  <andythenorth> dunno why
17:20:30  <andythenorth> probably some ancient reason
17:22:00  <frosch123> <- see column 14
17:22:12  <frosch123> sometimes players get confused by high values
17:22:17  <frosch123> like the 30 of the forest
17:22:20  <andythenorth> oh yes
17:22:29  <andythenorth> ok
17:22:34  <frosch123> but in general i am unsure why that property exists in the first place :)
17:22:41  <andythenorth> +1
17:22:49  <andythenorth> the FIRS values might be an artefact of the automated conversion from nfo
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17:51:12  <andythenorth> hi Snail :)
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17:55:33  <andythenorth> ha
17:55:46  <andythenorth> found a reproducible bug in adjacent station detection :)
17:57:19  <Snail> hey andythenorth
17:57:32  <Snail> looks like I could compile OTTD with Sierra
17:57:54  <Snail> after using Tej’s patch (from the forums)
17:58:09  <andythenorth> really? :)
18:00:08  <andythenorth> ach the error window doesn’t open near my station
18:00:13  <andythenorth> so the screen record missed it
18:00:14  <andythenorth> nvm
18:00:37  <andythenorth> it’s probably a feature
18:01:27  <Wolf01> is it any better now?
18:01:29  <andythenorth> adjacent check doesn’t apply when dragging from an existing tile
18:01:43  <andythenorth> actually quite neat, just never noticed it before
18:01:52  <Snail> andythenorth: nope… the executable file I created just crashed
18:02:06  <frosch123> Wolf01: if (e->company_avail != (CompanyMask)-1) continue; <- that line also needs the "any_date" check
18:02:12  <andythenorth> Snail: any message?
18:02:25  <Snail> looks like it wants libpng16
18:02:37  <Snail> but I need to keep 14, otherwise grfcodec crashes
18:02:50  <andythenorth> ha
18:03:08  <Snail> unless there’s a new version of grfcodec?
18:03:48  <Wolf01> "if (!any_date && e->company_avail != (CompanyMask)-1) continue;" ?
18:04:32  <andythenorth> Snail: I have libpng15 it seems
18:04:35  <andythenorth> grfcodec wfm
18:05:06  <frosch123> Wolf01: yes
18:05:31  <Wolf01> Also, is it _date the right variable? I didn't seem to find any other suitable
18:06:06  <frosch123> according to AcceptEnginePreview, it is
18:08:59  <andythenorth> Snail: seems my macports has libpng16
18:09:08  <andythenorth> dunno which one is actually used by grfcodec
18:10:46  <michi_cc> Snail: You can pass --with-png=.... to the configure script to get it to use another version, but I don't know the pkg-config command to give (configure --help will show the arg format)
18:11:47  <Snail> michi_cc: I will try to reconfigure now
18:12:12  <Snail> andythenorth: just do “ port installed libpng "
18:12:17  <Snail> it will tell you which one is active
18:12:30  <andythenorth> libpng @1.6.21_0+universal (active)
18:13:07  <andythenorth> libpng15 looks like it’s Apple supplied
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18:14:23  <andythenorth> but Security Update 2016-002 upgraded to libpng16, because <16 has a vuln
18:14:47  <andythenorth> and I have installed that, so eh
18:14:49  <andythenorth> dunno
18:15:25  <Alberth> michi_cc: grfcodec has no configure script :)
18:18:08  <Wolf01> Ok, the dropdown seem to work like before
18:18:17  <Snail> andythenorth: and grfcodec works for you?
18:18:41  <andythenorth> appears to
18:18:50  <andythenorth> I am digging through libpngs
18:19:01  <andythenorth> libpng15 looks like the remnants of a brew install
18:21:22  <Snail> this is hilarious
18:21:28  <Snail> now I activated libpng16
18:21:34  <Snail> and restarted ottd
18:21:41  <Snail> and it crashed because libpng14 is missing...
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18:22:30  <andythenorth> :)
18:22:43  <Alberth> the joys of having exactly one png lib :p
18:23:32  <Snail> alright, I’ll search for a new version of grfcodec
18:26:56  <Wolf01> frosch123, I published the changes as "can-build-vehicle-infrastructure", the new function is used just in the dropdown code, but I'll change the other function too
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18:27:28  <Wolf01> Also version in title now shows nice japanese chars :P
18:28:06  * Wolf01 -> shower -> dinner -> lego batman movie
18:28:16  <frosch123> have fun :)
18:31:01  <Wolf01> Meh... last (and only) projection for today: 19:40
18:31:29  <Wolf01> Still do the first 2 steps
18:32:01  <Alberth> andythenorth:  ?  now it has the default text :p
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18:37:24  <Alberth> hmm, not interested, apparently :p
18:40:14  <Alberth> frosch123:  started hacking to get the default "cargo waiting" message from the industry gui  is what I have now, as you can see in the no_waiting.png link, it now displays the default industry text. Maybe that should be removed too?
18:41:36  <Snail> andythenorth: it works :)
18:41:37  <Alberth> under the assumption that everybody has set that bit to 0, I think it's compatible with current newgrfs
18:42:01  <Alberth> no andy here, Snail
18:42:07  <Snail> oh he left?
18:42:08  <frosch123> why would you want to remove the other text?
18:42:30  <Alberth> give newgrf author a clean sheet to start with
18:42:53  <frosch123> then that should be done via the text callback, if the author already uses that one
18:42:54  <Alberth> eg andy has that list too together with other text
18:43:30  <Alberth> ah, good point, let me try to find that :)
18:44:18  <frosch123> <- there were also other ideas in the past
18:44:28  <frosch123> but as always, ideas change on an hourly level :)
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18:50:39  * andythenorth got disconnected :P
18:50:46  <andythenorth> really odd wifi performance here
18:51:05  <andythenorth> dead spots
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18:51:56  <andythenorth> Snail: so it works? On Sierra?
18:52:13  <Snail> andythenorth: yes
18:52:17  <Snail>
18:52:26  <andythenorth> Alberth: that looks promising :)
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18:52:34  <Snail> it did give me a zillion of warning messages, but the game seems to work fine
18:53:20  <Alberth> is there any large advantage to having an explicit handling of such a case rather than just give the author full freedom?
18:54:41  <andythenorth> potato / potato
18:54:59  <andythenorth> it would suit my case to have full freedom
18:55:12  <andythenorth> means I’ll have to recreate the default ‘Production last month’ stuff
18:55:18  <andythenorth> and I might run out of text stack
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18:57:24  <Alberth> and that doesn't happen with CB 37 then?
18:57:52  <andythenorth> dunno, haven’t tried, but less likely
18:58:08  * andythenorth has cb 37 docs open right now
18:58:21  <andythenorth> for the FIRS case, I could push ‘supplied’ or ‘not supplied’ with cb 37
18:58:38  <andythenorth> and if we could lose the sillly ‘cargo waiting to be processed’ text, then my case is met
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18:59:21  <andythenorth> cargo subtypes make me twitch, they are a bad idea that has leaked into too many places :D
18:59:25  <andythenorth> but it would work
19:01:26  <andythenorth> Alberth: what’s the implementation?  Pure hack?
19:02:00  <Alberth> I think it's clean, I use bit 17 of industry behavior, which is currently not used (in the code)
19:02:41  <andythenorth> so it’s a flag?
19:03:17  <Alberth> "suppress 'cargo to be processed' text" flag
19:03:29  <andythenorth> currently, the ‘waiting’ text appears if bit 1 or 2 are set in prop 21, which is assumptive
19:03:42  <andythenorth> it assumes only gradual processing :P
19:04:33  <Alberth> ok, we can call it the "not gradual processing display flag"  :)
19:04:52  <andythenorth> can we put it on prop 1A?
19:05:03  <andythenorth> oh that is your proposal
19:05:04  <andythenorth> nvm
19:05:08  * andythenorth catches up
19:06:15  <Alberth> yep, and I use bit 18, thus :p
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19:07:14  <andythenorth> wfm
19:07:29  <frosch123> Alberth: <- that is how ecs does it
19:07:43  <frosch123> personally i consider the ecs method way better than firs
19:07:46  <andythenorth> frosch123: would the flag be an acceptable solution?  Or would the cb be prefeable?
19:07:56  <andythenorth> yes, I am going to adopt cb 37
19:08:16  <andythenorth> I was slightly avoiding it because the ‘waiting to be processed’ text makes me sad :)
19:08:18  <frosch123> from a gui consistency view i would always put the input cargos to the top, with some cargo related info next to it
19:08:28  <frosch123> firs for some reason always does some wall of text at the bottom
19:08:49  <andythenorth> well the top is full of useless text :)
19:09:25  <andythenorth> I have stripped it down to
19:09:36  <andythenorth> and the repeating of two cargos at the end is obviously silly
19:09:37  <frosch123> andythenorth: i don't care about flag or callback. it just should be a solution that make sense, and does not break after 2 weeks
19:10:00  <frosch123> iirc you already broke the wall-of-text callback in the past when running out of textstack
19:10:06  <andythenorth> yes
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19:10:18  <andythenorth> I had to redesign my text, is fine
19:10:26  <andythenorth> the thing about the flag, it’s adding more stuff to fix a design flaw, no?
19:10:45  <andythenorth> but I can’t think of any appropriate way to fix root cause
19:10:52  <frosch123> so, i stick to my opinion: the "supplies", "more required" message should be next to the cargo at the top
19:11:01  <andythenorth> agreed
19:11:04  <frosch123> putting it into the wall of text is bad from a gui pov, and also bad from a coding pov
19:11:05  <andythenorth> I’m converted to that view
19:12:02  <Alberth> In ECS, the top 4 lines are the 'to be processed' lines, and "Production this month:" etc is  added, right?
19:12:30  <frosch123> from an ottd pov i would replace the "cargo waiting to be processed" with the "requires" text from, except it would always print a separate line per cargo, instead of the comma-separation
19:12:59  <andythenorth> Alberth: ‘to be processed’ and ‘production this month’ are both default
19:13:07  <frosch123> Alberth: "production this month" is standard, you also see that in the no_waiting screenshot
19:13:10  <andythenorth> ‘Animals:’ and ‘Remain:’ are added
19:13:23  <Alberth> ah, ok, I am there :)
19:13:45  <frosch123> ecs only has debug info at the bottom :)
19:13:57  <Alberth> it's not debug info :p
19:14:08  <frosch123> it always look to me as if :)
19:14:19  <Alberth> I reported it once as such, and it was explained it was vital information about the industry :p
19:15:10  <andythenorth> and then I made FIRS :P
19:15:21  <andythenorth> ECS is nice, but not for me :)
19:15:25  <andythenorth> I don’t have enough brain
19:15:57  <Alberth> I can see the advantage of a line for each cargo, the question is whether we should enforce that, imho
19:16:21  <Alberth> I am +0.5 or so
19:16:21  <frosch123> imho yes :)
19:16:38  <frosch123> the wall of text makes stuff inconsistent, and is very limited wrt. amount of parameters
19:16:54  <Alberth> ok
19:17:13  <Alberth> and so the simple patch explodes :p
19:17:49  <frosch123> Alberth: the funny thing is, i think, andy is happy if we just change the string "Cargo to be processed" to "Requires:"
19:18:15  <andythenorth> spurious ‘amount waiting’ values still there then :)
19:18:34  <Alberth> yeah, silly "0" values :)
19:18:48  <frosch123> and possibly the other lines to "Vehicle parts (0 crates waiting)"
19:18:49  <Alberth> maybe you should add stockpiling :p
19:19:01  <frosch123> with a cb flag to disable display of the "waiting" part (per cargo)
19:19:12  <andythenorth> yup
19:19:18  <andythenorth> modify cb37
19:19:26  <frosch123> Alberth: i think andy actually has stockpiling, he just does not display it
19:19:32  <andythenorth> I do? :O
19:19:50  <frosch123> sure, you have lots of "cargo delivered within 3 months", so you stockpile for 3 months
19:20:02  <andythenorth> implicit :)
19:20:04  <Alberth> :D
19:21:03  <Alberth> I once coded to take 1/16 of the cargo with a minimum of 1 (or 0 if there is no cargo at all) for yetis, and that had the nice effect that cargo is slowly provided at the output
19:21:15  <Alberth> slowly ramping down
19:22:26  <Alberth> it's also stockpiling, but it has no explicit maximum
19:22:57  <Alberth> although you can't throw 255 every production cycle at it either
19:23:13  <Alberth> @calc 8*255
19:23:13  <DorpsGek> Alberth: 2040
19:24:02  <Alberth> hmm, should be 24K-ish, missing something there
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19:44:52  <Alberth> "Do results 0800 to 0CFF make any sense?"  <-- I think no, or at least not until a valid use case
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19:48:40  <supermop> hi
19:51:25  <supermop> not a bug, but a headache:
19:51:51  <supermop> I cannot convert town owned ROAD to ELRD
19:52:11  <supermop> so seems like trolley busses are going to be DOA
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19:52:59  <frosch123> there is a TODO in the source about upgrading town roads :)
19:53:15  <andythenorth> results 0800 to 0CFF make sense if the header text (‘cargo waiting…’) can also be specified
19:53:24  <andythenorth> but otherwise it’s weirdly flexible
19:53:38  <andythenorth> author can provide anything, except it must follow the heading :P
19:54:51  <supermop> maybe nrt grf can specify in addition to a list of powered compatible types, types for which a conversion is a non-invasive upgrade
19:55:17  <Alberth> andythenorth: grfcodec paved the way for that :p
19:55:38  <supermop> specifically allow what to upgrade town owned roads to, so cannot grief by 'upgrading everything to a dirt road, or a road that disallows house growth
19:56:10  <frosch123> Alberth: isn't 800-cff just what andy wants? display no amount, but display "supplied"
19:56:43  <Alberth> I read it as "free text line for each cargo"
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19:57:20  <frosch123> yeah, with some fine-print you can turn it into anything :)
19:57:21  <Alberth> so you can put down anything there
19:57:31  <andythenorth> I read it as any arbitrary string
19:57:36  <frosch123> wrt. the text at top, imho it should just say "requires" in all cases
19:58:16  <andythenorth> ‘Requires: 0 tonnes of grain’ ?
19:58:18  <Alberth> Requires:  Steel (100 max)  ?
19:59:06  <Alberth> not even sure if the industry has 100, or you must supply 100
20:00:42  <andythenorth> silly industry text :)
20:00:44  <Alberth> coding your own stockpile text is going to be tricky :p
20:01:41  <frosch123> <- the double parentheses look a bit stupid
20:03:20  <andythenorth> FIRS one looks good :)
20:04:30  <frosch123> <- using colon for the stockpile fixes it
20:05:29  <andythenorth> double colon :)
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20:06:44  <Alberth> remove the colon after "Requires"
20:07:41  <Alberth> what is D00-D3FF textref stack 100...105?
20:08:02  <Alberth> newgrf supplied string with newgrf supplied stacks?
20:10:37  <Alberth> 0800-0CFF is not completely free text I see now, you always print the cargo first.  Alright, that could work
20:11:27  <Alberth> would take a lot of work to make a good looking different layout from that
20:11:35  <frosch123> <- with cb result
20:12:03  <andythenorth> neater
20:13:06  <Alberth> ok, looks good
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20:16:25  <frosch123> ok, who wants to code it?
20:17:20  <Alberth> I can give it a try
20:17:30  <Alberth> unless you're bored :)
20:19:06  <frosch123> i was looking to a third breakfast
20:19:22  <frosch123> not sure whether it should be called dinner
20:19:29  <frosch123> but definitely not lunch
20:19:34  <V453000> slugfast
20:19:36  <V453000> slugnner
20:19:39  <V453000> slugnch
20:19:42  <LordAro> if it's with milk in a bowl, probably breakfast
20:19:45  <Alberth> food :)
20:20:14  <frosch123> it's not midnight snack yet
20:25:16  <frosch123> <- ah, found a proper list
20:25:56  <andythenorth> breakfast is dinner in my house twice a week
20:26:01  <andythenorth> and I am definitely a grown up
20:28:12  <LordAro> i've had hardly any food in the house for days
20:28:21  <LordAro> need to go shopping..
20:28:31  <supermop> what should I do with roads now?
20:28:46  <andythenorth> play test them :)
20:28:53  <andythenorth> half of newgrf is playtesting
20:28:59  <supermop> need more RVs
20:29:01  <andythenorth> half is posting here
20:29:07  <andythenorth> the actual coding is minimal
20:29:27  <supermop> need trolley trucks and dmu trams
20:31:27  <supermop> is heqs nml and gpl?
20:31:43  <frosch123> heqs is nfo, but gpl
20:31:52  <supermop> :(
20:31:59  <andythenorth> it’s a winning combo
20:32:06  <andythenorth> you now get to convert it to nml :)
20:33:06  <supermop> maybe ill look at ogfx+ or egrvts first
20:33:27  <frosch123> ogfx+ then :)
20:33:31  <frosch123> i think egrvts is nfo as well
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20:33:39  <supermop> D:
20:34:27  <supermop> do you think a horse pulls a wagon faster on dirt or cobblestone?
20:34:44  <andythenorth> dirt
20:34:48  <supermop> dirt seems more comfortable for the horse but harder for the wheels
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20:35:06  <supermop> I guess dirt /+ mud
20:35:07  <andythenorth> I have cobblestones outside my office, hard on wheels
20:35:10  <supermop> /=
20:35:44  <supermop> make it dependent on days since last rainfall
20:35:47  <frosch123> dirt is not hard on wheel, wheels are hard on dirt :p
20:36:27  <Eddi|zuHause> i think you missed the lesson in physics where they explained that forces always equally apply both ways
20:37:11  <andythenorth> you don’t fall through the floor because the floor pushes back
20:37:15  * andythenorth has a book about it
20:38:09  <andythenorth>
20:38:37  <frosch123> what if the floor only acts as multiplier for the centrigual forces?
20:38:58  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: now you have to complani that there are no centrigual forces, only centripedel or so
20:39:02  <andythenorth> also
20:39:12  <andythenorth> good books
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20:40:11  <supermop> the concern is, DIRT having lower speed than cobble for trucks, but higher speed for horses and Subaru imprezas
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20:40:35  <andythenorth> I think I read this too, or one like it, which covers that most structural failures are corner cases
20:40:50  <supermop> i have that book
20:40:55  <andythenorth> edge cases are mostly known and calculated for, unless there is massive innovation
20:41:09  <andythenorth> whereas corner cases are combinatorial, and push beyond the parameters allowed for in the edge cases
20:41:45  <V453000>
20:42:54  <andythenorth> such
20:43:05  <supermop>
20:43:28  <supermop> has the same Italian truck photo I posted the other day
20:43:36  <supermop> so that's where we all saw it before
20:44:47  * andythenorth actually watches an F video
20:45:09  <andythenorth> the waves of flying stuff looks cool
20:46:16  <supermop> I wonder if it is faster to find out from this guy inactive from december if his set is gpl
20:46:28  <supermop> or to just make my own trolleybi
20:56:15  <Eddi|zuHause> yes.
21:00:29  <andythenorth> {SKIP}
21:00:34  <andythenorth> is not in the nml docs :)
21:01:11  <Eddi|zuHause> it was removed, afaik
21:01:17  <andythenorth>
21:01:24  <andythenorth> it’s used in FIRS, dunno what it does
21:01:50  * andythenorth is trying to remove warnings about broken translation langs
21:02:28  <andythenorth> “Discard next word from stack”
21:03:17  <Eddi|zuHause> {SKIP} is a parameter that is ignored, like when you have two strings "{A} {B} {C}" and "{A} {C}", you can pass both the same parameters A,B,C if you change the second one to "{A} {SKIP} {C}"
21:03:59  <Eddi|zuHause> means you can reuse the same code to push the parameters to the stack
21:05:29  <andythenorth> it’s present in nml
21:05:34  <andythenorth> might just be missing from docs
21:05:41  * andythenorth can’t fix, can’t log in to wiki
21:06:24  <Eddi|zuHause> it might be under hidden/deprecated features
21:12:26  <andythenorth> not here
21:13:16  <andythenorth> wiki search turns up nothing
21:14:21  <frosch123> it was removed from ottd lang files, since it is pointless there
21:14:32  <frosch123> nfo/nml still need it, because of the text stack
21:16:41  * andythenorth wonders why it was missing from lots of FIRS lang translations
21:16:49  <andythenorth> nvm
21:17:13  <frosch123> {SKIP} is pretty pointless in translation
21:17:24  <frosch123> possibly eints drops it from translations
21:17:29  <frosch123> and only allows it in base language
21:17:36  <andythenorth> ah
21:17:45  <frosch123> but no idea
21:17:51  <andythenorth> well nml complains about mismatched control codes
21:17:52  <frosch123> only guesses
21:18:07  * andythenorth will see whether all my fixes are removed by eints tomorrow
21:18:53  <andythenorth> such tidying :P
21:19:00  <Alberth> nn
21:19:19  <andythenorth> bye Alberth
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21:45:46  <Eddi|zuHause> uhm, how can skip be "pointless" in translations? certainly the order of parameters matters
21:46:10  <Eddi|zuHause> and possibly translations need parameters that english doesn't need
21:46:47  <frosch123> translations use {3:STRING} {1:COMMA}
21:48:36  <frosch123> {SKIP} in translations is something that the compilers deals with, not the translator
21:49:42  <Eddi|zuHause> so translations leave them out, like {STRINGn}?
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21:50:19  <frosch123> as, said, if you need to reorder parameters, {SKIP} is pointless
21:50:40  <frosch123> what would {3:STRING}{SKIP}{1:COMMA} mean?
21:51:14  <frosch123> {SKIP} defines register layout in the baselanguage, but it has no information in the translation
21:52:55  * andythenorth wonders why it’s used
21:53:17  <andythenorth> it’s in the primary supplies text
21:53:47  <frosch123> likely because you wanted to do STORE_TEMP(0x100, a), STORE_TEMP(0x101, b) instead of STORE_TEMP(0x100, a | (b << 16))
21:54:39  <frosch123> or you have different versions of strings which use different amount of parameters, but you want to keep the same code to fill them
21:54:59  <frosch123> like when you have strings for 3, 2 and 1 input cargos
21:55:10  <frosch123> and other information in the other registers
21:57:47  <andythenorth> at 4X only one register is used
21:58:16  <andythenorth> so the skip would make sense there
21:58:26  <andythenorth> $someone wrote that for me :)
21:58:42  <frosch123> possibly me
21:59:02  <frosch123> i guess the two parameters have the amount for enhanced and gungho
21:59:12  <frosch123> but the gungho text does not display the enhanced requirement
21:59:21  <andythenorth> exactly
22:01:46  * andythenorth experimenting with cb37
22:07:37  <supermop> can we have some streets named after engineers other than james watt?
22:07:53  <andythenorth> more station names are possible
22:07:57  <andythenorth> but only one per industry
22:08:01  <andythenorth> no random
22:08:19  <supermop> supp. yard gets it as well
22:08:29  <supermop> in addition to machine shop
22:09:08  <andythenorth> on my ‘todo’ list :)
22:09:16  <andythenorth> I am not inventing the names though
22:09:26  <supermop> ha
22:09:33  <supermop> brunell?
22:09:37  <supermop> stephenson?
22:10:30  <frosch123> i guess station names are the other strings from the precious dcxx range
22:10:42  <andythenorth> ah, I might not add more then
22:10:43  <frosch123> so, more station names limit more cargos :p
22:11:07  <andythenorth> I am at 233/256
22:11:11  <frosch123> someone need to increase those limis :)
22:12:32  <andythenorth> probably not in 2017
22:13:56  <andythenorth> speedyzapgaming is good value in forums
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22:17:17  <frosch123> i like canoes
22:17:43  <frosch123> but then he ran out of ideas for ship types
22:24:56  <Wolf01> Meh... I'm really bored to do 10 times the same thing in fallout 4, not being able to save is a plague
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22:28:25  <Eddi|zuHause> i still have to go through 20 years of EU4 endgame...
22:28:36  <Eddi|zuHause> the time just doesn't seem to move forward at all
22:29:32  <Wolf01> Eh, but I'm like "get up - find something to do outside camp - get killed - autoload last autosave"
22:30:14  <Eddi|zuHause> ... and i had 10 years of regency, where i couldn't attack anybody
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22:32:32  <Wolf01> Fast travel is disabled, illness is enabled, need to find something to eat (and that something usually tries to kill you) and drink, sleep, console disabled so I can't cheat, enemies (and you too, but does not count) do more damage
22:33:54  <Wolf01> I really liked the survival mode in new vegas, this one is "let's see how much it takes to give up"
22:34:17  <Eddi|zuHause> sounds like games from the 80s
22:35:00  <Eddi|zuHause> liks, before they invented monkey island
22:35:48  <Wolf01> Also ammo now has weight, I can't carry anymore 100+ fusion cores and 50 fat boys :(
22:36:14  <Eddi|zuHause> i've never actually played fallout
22:37:05  <Wolf01> It's a good game if you like the genre (TES-like), totally different than the first 2 ones
22:37:41  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know the genre
22:38:18  <Wolf01> Explore the fuck out of the world and make people angry with bad decisions, that is :P
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23:59:15  <Wolf01> 'night
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