Log for #openttd on 25th February 2017:
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03:40:56  <snadge> has anyone thought about adding the 2014 music support somehow?
03:41:10  <supermop> huh?
03:41:35  <snadge> in 2014.. john broomhall re-recorded the music to transport tycoon deluxe, for the Android / iOS remake
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03:41:47  <snadge> he used a real trumpet player, and saxophone player
03:42:10  <snadge> and allowed them to improvise.. basically just gave them artistic freedom and said, go for it
03:42:27  <snadge> the result is .. pretty cool
03:42:38  <supermop> yeah I've heard some of it
03:42:49  <snadge> its on youtube here in its entirety..
03:43:15  <snadge> i think he also might have played the keys.. i can hear some different effects and stuff as well
03:43:57  <snadge> so im thinking of buying the android version, and pulling apart the apk, because you can't buy the soundtrack.. which is pretty dumb
03:44:40  <snadge> so maybe we could patch the audio engine to be able to use the 2014 music, if you drop it in there, and select the option to use it
03:45:13  <snadge> i guess you can just play the youtube video in the background, and mute the music ;)
03:46:05  <supermop> well there are a few issues, but basically when transport tycoon was made in the early 90s, game music was basically midi or nothing
03:46:28  <snadge> right.. an mp3/ogg player would have to be patched into it
03:46:35  <supermop> so the game implemented it's own midi player
03:47:07  <snadge> the built in midi player is actually pretty good
03:47:35  <supermop> but now almost any computer playing the game will have other means to play music, and maybe even a better, dedicated means of playing midi music
03:48:16  <supermop> the game only really includes a midi player at all out of faithfulness for recreating the original game
03:48:44  <snadge> hmm.. i cant see the option to use the emulated midi
03:49:01  <snadge> i have mine redirected to a roland sound canvas 880 (external)
03:49:08  <snadge> and that sounds pretty sweet ;)
03:49:12  <supermop> I've never installed a base music set nor used the in game jukebox in the entire time I've used openttd
03:49:38  <snadge> its understandable, i mean.. if you're going to spend a significant amount of time in game
03:49:40  <snadge> it would drive you nuts
03:49:55  <snadge> i literally know every note to every single song
03:50:00  <snadge> lol
03:50:09  <supermop> if I listen to music why playing, it's always been some other source of music either on the computer or my stereo
03:50:17  <snadge> it plays in my head sometimes.. when im just doing every day things in life
03:50:53  <snadge> i haven't heard the openmsx version of the music.. it would probably offend me
03:51:23  <supermop> I don't think there is much need to bloat the game itself with a mp3 codec or whatever, as anyone would have other means to play the mp3s if they wanted
03:51:52  <supermop> openmsx is different music as it its all legally free
03:52:07  <supermop> public domain or newly created with an open license
03:52:35  <supermop> i've never listened to it myself,
03:52:36  <snadge> yeah but it probably wouldn't take much to add mp3/ogg support.. maybe a few hundred kb worth of dlls at the most
03:52:43  <snadge> then people would have an easier time of creating their own music sets
03:52:57  <snadge> but i dont know if there would be much call for it
03:53:04  <supermop> but why not just use whatever your favorite mp3 player is
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03:53:18  <snadge> and turn the inbuild music off.. exactly
03:54:02  <supermop> unlike modern games where the music needs to relate to cut scenes or the action, the transport tycoon music just plays through like an album
03:54:33  <supermop> so there really is no need to have it playing in the game itself
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03:55:33  <supermop> also, even if mp3 support were added, the live transport tycoon music certainly could never be included
03:57:27  <snadge> no.. you would have to drop it in there like you currently have to anyway
03:57:32  <supermop> OpenTTD strives to be a legal, open source project, and the license of the music would preclude it
03:58:03  <snadge> i wonder how many people actually go to the trouble to use the original sounds/music/graphics.. since its not exactly straight forward.. i googled, and found a guide that told me which files etc
03:58:21  <snadge> of course from my licensed copy of ttd
03:58:45  <supermop> I only had TTO, not ttd, so I don't even own a copy
03:59:05  <snadge> so.. observation #1 .. the Pop preset on the sc880.. really brings life to the openmsx music track
03:59:05  <supermop> but I always play without music or soundeffects
03:59:14  <snadge> without soundeffects too? whut? :p
03:59:50  <supermop> level crossing bells get old after about the third time you hear them
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04:01:13  <snadge> the open music is not as terrible as i was expecting
04:01:57  <snadge> it peeves me that the sound canvas doesn't automatically note off.. so if you interrupt the track.. some sounds just hang indefinitely
04:04:40  <snadge> its not just the crossing bells.. its the cows mooing etc as well
04:13:54  <supermop> i have no idea how these nml templates are supposed to work
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08:00:19  <Alberth> o/
08:05:20  <Alberth> another issue with adding eg mp3, is that openttd is cross-platform, which means a lot of mp3 implementations are needed
08:05:54  <Alberth> note that afaik mp3 has its share of legal problems, so it's not really open
08:06:45  <Alberth> you'd be surprised on the number of people running the original graphics; the quality of those is a lot higher than opengfx
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08:32:56  <andythenorth_> o/
08:41:59  <Alberth> o/
08:43:19  <andythenorth_> bbl, phone irc :p
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09:12:42  <Wolf01> o/
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09:35:34  <Alberth> o/
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10:25:02  <andythenorth> isn’t it
10:25:34  <Alberth> likely it is
10:26:28  <andythenorth> what shall I call it then?
10:26:33  <andythenorth> NotWaterFeatures?
10:27:07  <andythenorth> ^ Wolf01 thinking of starting a fork with experimental branches for docks, diagonal canals etc
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10:28:05  <Wolf01> Ok, "notsomething" could be our distinctive brand :P
10:28:33  <Eddi|zuHause> too close to "nosomething"
10:29:41  <andythenorth> new fork, or rename
10:29:55  <andythenorth> I can rename NotRoadTypes to NotSomething or NotStuff
10:29:58  <andythenorth> NotOpenTTD
10:30:16  <andythenorth> fork is overkill
10:30:32  <Wolf01> NotOpenTTD :D
10:30:43  <andythenorth> yeah
10:30:49  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: definitely a new fork
10:30:55  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: why? o_O
10:31:08  <Eddi|zuHause> so you have easier time merging the old fork
10:32:06  <andythenorth> it’s just git? o_O
10:32:17  <Alberth> yep, keeping separate things separate is easier
10:32:30  <andythenorth> if I rename it will break the git paths for people’s checkouts
10:32:34  <andythenorth> afaict
10:32:37  <andythenorth> that’s rude
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10:35:59  <Alberth> new fork ensures you're not using non-trunk stuff, since it's not there
10:36:52  <andythenorth> also reduces the temptation to merge lots of unrelated branches together ‘to see what happens’ :P
10:37:17  <Alberth> you can still do that, but not in a development branch
10:37:18  <andythenorth> it is github admin though, provisioning users etc
10:37:28  <Alberth> make a "merge all the things" branch :)
10:37:51  <andythenorth> making a whole new repo isn’t really how git development is supposed to work :)
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10:38:11  <andythenorth> sledgehammer, nut
10:38:12  <Alberth> new branch from master origin/master works too
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10:39:35  <Alberth> unmerging things you slapped together is stuff for nightmares :)
10:39:55  <Wolf01> Meh... VLC can't convert a video, I can't understand why
10:40:29  <andythenorth> branch revert is usually ok, with...caveats
10:40:42  <andythenorth> anyway
10:40:51  <andythenorth> what’s the wish list for NotWater?
10:41:25  <Wolf01> Moar features
10:41:52  <Alberth> +1
10:42:21  <Wolf01> It would be a nice thing to have the water levels
10:42:30  <andythenorth> ?
10:42:36  <Wolf01> Exactly
10:43:27  <andythenorth> - diagonal river and canal tiles?
10:44:19  <Wolf01> Non destroyable rivers
10:44:26  <andythenorth> - rivers that respawn when bulldozed?
10:44:31  <Wolf01> ^
10:44:40  <Alberth> why is water flooding useful?
10:44:44  <andythenorth> - or rivers that must remain connected (pathfinder) even if moved?
10:45:03  <andythenorth> Alberth: do the ideas, then the why later? o_O
10:45:18  <Wolf01> The flooding could be avoided at first step
10:45:18  <andythenorth> 50% of these are probably terrible terrible ideas :)
10:45:19  <Alberth> I'd start with non-destructible
10:45:37  <andythenorth> and 25% of ideas are probably at best ‘meh'
10:45:51  <Alberth> :)
10:46:10  <andythenorth> flat docks?
10:46:15  <andythenorth> multi-stop docks?
10:46:26  <Wolf01> These are really a killer feature
10:46:42  <andythenorth> limited ships per bouy?
10:47:24  <Alberth> not sure how feasible that is, you'd need some sort of reservation system so bouys don't get overrun
10:47:28  <andythenorth> ships which have a ‘size’ concept (occupy n slots per dock)?
10:47:53  <andythenorth> ship physics (engine hp, affects acceleration)
10:48:11  <andythenorth> ship physics: rivers have a flow direction, more powerful ships go faster upstream
10:48:38  <Alberth> sounds doable
10:48:46  <andythenorth> ship physics: hull drag coefficient
10:48:46  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: compose ship sprites of several smaller parts to avoid clipping
10:49:00  <andythenorth> what Eddi said
10:49:14  <Alberth> hull drag seems overkill, can't you do that with HP ?
10:49:16  <Eddi|zuHause> so they don't have one huge bounding box, but several smaller ones
10:49:39  <andythenorth> Alberth: yes, I was deliberately adding ideas that can be shot down :)
10:49:43  <Eddi|zuHause> hull drag might be relevant if you add moving water
10:49:54  <Wolf01> Btw, I would like to implement the idea of not having stations just for rails, a "build station" gui which allows to build a multi-tile station with the same graphics over road/rail as frosch proposed
10:50:08  <andythenorth> Wolf01: that’s Not NotWater
10:50:12  <andythenorth> that’s NotStations :)
10:50:27  <andythenorth> and yes, I was thinking about it
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10:50:36  <andythenorth> non-routed station tiles / station objects
10:50:53  <Alberth> add some dock features, and you have nice non-stations :)
10:50:54  <andythenorth> with some UI to make them available trivially when building train / RV / airport / dock
10:51:38  <andythenorth> 2 tile or 1 tile locks
10:52:03  <Wolf01> Btw, for NotWater: articulated ships is a base requirement
10:52:14  <andythenorth> ha
10:52:23  <Wolf01> I want logging barges
10:52:56  <Alberth> :)
10:53:08  <Alberth> throw some logs into the river :)
10:53:32  <andythenorth> you’d want them arbitrarily composable? Like trains?
10:53:36  <andythenorth> or like RVs, pre-built?
10:53:41  <Wolf01> More like trams
10:53:52  <Wolf01> You choose the length
10:53:57  * andythenorth wondered about binning all ships and start again from scratch
10:54:05  <andythenorth> implementing them like trains, with defined routes that have to be built
10:54:18  <andythenorth> sea lanes
10:54:34  <Alberth> I somewhat do that, by adding bouys
10:54:45  <andythenorth> I don’t necessarily think it’s a good idea
10:54:49  <andythenorth> but worth considering
10:54:58  <andythenorth> no matter how much newgrf, ships are still quite lame
10:55:09  <Alberth> would give finer control over where ships go
10:55:32  <andythenorth> it’s a fork, so we don’t need to consider savegames :x
10:55:56  <andythenorth> or newgrf authors
10:56:16  <Alberth> it does need simple crossing though
10:56:28  <andythenorth> @calc 4/8
10:56:28  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 0.5
10:56:34  <Alberth> phew!
10:56:37  <andythenorth> I have made 50% of the ship sets, more or less
10:56:46  <andythenorth> so we can break newgrf, right?
10:57:02  <Alberth> "extend" is the right word :p
10:57:30  <Alberth> openttd would remain compatible however, for old savegames
10:57:55  <Alberth> so maybe a combination of old and new?
10:57:57  <Wolf01> Ferry between 2 fixed points (like a bridge, better if diagonal too) could be considered as NotWater?
10:58:53  <Alberth> it does stuff with ships :)
10:59:02  <Alberth> oh, multi-cargo ships?
10:59:14  <Wolf01> It's a fake ship, more like a canal feature
11:00:02  <Wolf01> Isn't "goods" already a multi-cargo?
11:00:06  <Wolf01> :P
11:00:47  <Wolf01> Pax+mail could be good, but I don't think we'll ever see a oil+logs ship
11:01:32  <andythenorth> - multi-cargo ships
11:01:33  <Alberth> you could put the logs in the oil to save space!
11:01:46  <ZirconiumX> Or build the ship out of logs
11:01:54  <andythenorth> import finished
11:08:09  <andythenorth>
11:08:21  <andythenorth> does the background / proposition sound about right?
11:08:29  <Wolf01> Ideas are an issue :P
11:08:55  <andythenorth> I could have put it in the wiki I guess
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11:09:23  <andythenorth> meta-critique :P
11:09:26  <andythenorth> what about the content? o_O
11:09:52  <Wolf01> I'll try an a* river feature for editor soon or later
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11:14:56  <Alberth> Add an "idea" label to the issue :p
11:17:29  <Alberth> adding "moving" rivers need river direction, I think
11:17:44  <Alberth> as all rivers are connected through sea
11:18:52  <Alberth> also, what is the point of cb37 for building industries?
11:20:25  <Alberth> add dock stuff? or is that issue #2?
11:34:06  <planetmaker> o/
11:34:14  <Wolf01> o/
11:37:28  <Alberth> o/
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12:22:49  <Alberth> o/
12:26:25  <andythenorth> Alberth: issue #1 is overview and scope
12:26:31  <andythenorth> then I’ll link it to other issues
12:26:35  <andythenorth> it’s like a story ticket
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12:26:41  <andythenorth> such project management :P
12:27:08  <frosch> hoi
12:27:18  <Alberth> you should make tickable items    - [ ] foo
12:27:21  <Alberth> hola
12:27:44  <andythenorth> cb 37 when building - I assume it will show the subtype text in the ‘fund industry’ menu
12:27:57  <Alberth> it does
12:28:26  <andythenorth> I think the originally intended subtype use there is highly misleading
12:28:46  <Alberth> but it doesn't make much sense, as there is no concrete cargo or so
12:28:46  <andythenorth> looks like an industry requiring ‘Food (bread)’ wouldn’t acccept ‘Food (cakes)'
12:29:09  <andythenorth> I wonder if it’s used by any grf
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12:30:18  <Wolf01> Quak
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13:10:10  <andythenorth> updated
13:13:26  <Wolf01> Btw, I like 3 tile locks, but they must be working realistically with ship that stops in the middle and raising/lowering the ship... better if only 1 at time
13:15:37  <frosch> locks do not make much sense, if you want to make rivers traversable
13:15:51  <frosch> locks would be something for more than 1 height level
13:17:27  <frosch> make locks 2-4 tile while requireing 2-4 height levels? while making ships travel 1 height level per 3 tiles distance?
13:18:10  <Alberth> do ships fit in a lock?
13:18:47  <Wolf01> Articulated ships in a lock is not feasible
13:19:13  <Wolf01> Like an oil tanker in a lock
13:19:22  <Wolf01> specially for 1-2 tile lock
13:19:35  <frosch> same holds for rivers :)
13:19:39  <frosch> locks are river-like
13:19:47  <frosch> oil tankers also do not fit into rivers
13:19:57  <Alberth> fair enough
13:20:03  <Wolf01> If one wants to build a "Panama channel" diorama, it should be possible
13:20:05  <frosch> or canals
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13:20:32  <frosch> maybe locks always have width 1 then?
13:20:36  <frosch> while canals can be broader?
13:23:07  <Wolf01> Canals should be broader, ships should collide, so if you want to have bidirectional canals you must have >=2 tiles
13:23:18  <andythenorth> I’ll put a sub-list
13:23:21  <andythenorth> ‘locks'
13:23:24  <andythenorth> and some of the ideas
13:23:46  <andythenorth> my objection is that rivers pretty much require locks
13:23:58  <andythenorth> and they’re rarely straight
13:24:03  <andythenorth> so most of my rivers end up as canals
13:24:06  <andythenorth> seems pointless :)
13:25:22  <frosch> Wolf01: btw. ttdp has that travel vertically in locks
13:25:33  <frosch> it does not look as well as it sounds
13:25:48  <Wolf01> I remember it, it needs proper animation
13:26:10  <frosch> problem with ships staying in place is that they overlap even more
13:26:33  <frosch> and you do not want to go down the eddi route :p
13:26:56  <Wolf01> Don't make ships overlap, that is :P
13:27:56  <andythenorth> in my last game I built all my canals as 2 tiles
13:28:03  <andythenorth> just to see the ships better
13:28:14  <andythenorth> they seem to neatly stick to one drive side
13:28:35  <Wolf01> I usually put buoys on locks entrances to force ships not using the same lock in different directions
13:30:05  <andythenorth> dunno if I really captured all the ideas :)
13:30:11  <Alberth> andy, do you have a firs for extended cb37?
13:31:00  <andythenorth> 5243 and 5244
13:31:15  <andythenorth> or
13:31:21  <frosch> andythenorth: btw. with "ships travel 1 height level per 3 tiles distance" i mean "travel without lock"
13:31:42  <Alberth> playing dangerous, latest breaking trunk :)
13:31:45  <Alberth> thanks
13:32:29  <andythenorth> frosch
13:33:44  <andythenorth> canals are uni-directional? o_O
13:34:00  <andythenorth> ships gain equivalent of reserved tiles?
13:34:11  <andythenorth> so no collisions, but they reserve x tiles
13:34:22  <andythenorth> if a ship can’t reserve any forward path, it’s deadlocked?
13:34:33  <Alberth> wouldn't just direction be enough
13:34:43  <andythenorth> dunno
13:34:48  <Alberth> probably allowing perpendicular too
13:34:50  <andythenorth> considering alternatives :)
13:35:12  <Alberth> you definitely want to ships after each other
13:35:17  <andythenorth> each canal has two bi-directional lanes
13:35:24  <andythenorth> but larger ships reserve both :P
13:54:39  <andythenorth> bbl
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14:31:02  <supermop> yo
14:34:18  <supermop> is it impossible to make a template for properties that all trucks of a generation share in regular nml?
14:36:04  <frosch> regular nml has templates only for spritelayouts
14:36:16  <frosch> s/spritelayouts/spritesets/
14:36:59  <supermop> :( ok
14:37:25  <supermop> well I already commented out my templates last night and added the stuff to each truck individually
14:37:47  <supermop> now apparently no sound is not a valid choice
14:37:56  <supermop> no_sound?
14:38:04  <frosch> i also mute every game
14:38:14  <frosch> it's one of the downsides of factorio
14:38:22  <frosch> you can only turn down the volume, but not really mute
14:38:51  <frosch> haven't checked lately, but at some point it was impossible to disable the intro music
14:39:14  <frosch> but it is not that loud, so if my regular music is loud enough, it does not matter :)
14:41:03  <frosch> i hope V does not make the music of f, or he will be upset again :p
14:58:02  <supermop> haha
15:02:17  <supermop>
15:02:38  <supermop> nmlc complaind about line 177 "item"
15:03:02  <supermop> but not for line 102
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15:10:26  <supermop> oh I miss a } before it
15:15:08  <supermop> now it saws 'unknown string'
15:17:28  <supermop> i have "name:                           string(STR_NAME_MKI_T_GOODS);"
15:18:22  <supermop> nmlc complains that "STR_NAME_MKI_T_GOODS" is an unknown string
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15:23:48  <supermop> what does unknown string mean? the string is defined exactly as that in the lng file
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15:24:29  <supermop> is "name:" the wrong way to use the string? I copied it from ogfx+
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15:30:18  <andythenorth> paste the line of code
15:31:13  <supermop>
15:31:57  <supermop> in that paste it would be line 6
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15:37:04  <Alberth> in lang/english.lng?
15:37:29  <supermop> STR_NAME_MKI_T_GOODS:Bufo Motive Works 'GP' Trolley Truck
15:39:29  <Alberth> so that should work
15:40:48  <Alberth> line 3 looks a bit short?
15:41:15  <supermop> ooohh
15:41:16  <supermop> oops
15:43:54  <supermop> soooo I had been working in the lng file as a txt file then saving it to lng
15:43:56  <Alberth> ogf seems to have 3 arguments, no idea what the 3rd one means
15:44:17  <supermop> but the lng file was out of date and missed that string
15:44:19  <supermop> sorry
15:44:29  <supermop> ogf?
15:44:37  <Alberth> ogfx
15:44:50  <supermop> huh
15:45:38  <Alberth> some of the project names use "opengfx-" others use "ogfx-" as prefix
15:46:19  <Alberth> so for me, they all mean "opengfx" :)
15:54:05  <supermop>
15:54:19  <supermop> offsets need some work I guess
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16:04:04  <Alberth> would increase traffic safety :)
16:08:15  <supermop> ok changing y offset did noting?
16:16:52  <Alberth> perhaps you changed bounding box ?
16:17:47  <supermop>
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16:18:41  <supermop> now the issue is, cannot string up wires over town owned roads
16:19:20  <supermop> meaning, paradoxically, it is much, much harder to build a trolley bus line in a city than a tram line
16:19:32  <supermop> as you have to destroy all the existing road first
16:25:17  <supermop> should I add some 2cc stripes before releasing?
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17:13:07  <Wolf01> Town roads should be upgradable to a compatible type
17:15:19  <Wolf01> I also always found annoying to not being able to make town roads one way
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17:18:15  <Wolf01> And if you are able to destroy the town road, place your own and make it one way, the limit should just be the local authority rating
17:23:24  <supermop> Wolf01: please try
17:23:43  <supermop> frosch and andythenorth too pls
17:23:58  <supermop> there are lame easter eggs
17:24:21  <Wolf01> I'll try it later, I'm dying of back pain and sleepness right now
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17:33:31  <supermop> that does not sound fun
17:38:56  <supermop> ooooh I discovered a workaround
17:39:18  <supermop> build trolleybus stops on the town road then remove the stop
17:40:00  <supermop> only works on straight road but then you get town owned wires
17:42:23  * andythenorth is mostly afk :)
17:42:26  <andythenorth> but releases are good
17:42:43  <supermop> ok problem: can build trolleybuses in non electric depots
17:44:21  <supermop> property is  "road_type:	ELRD; "
17:44:32  <supermop> but it runs fine on regular road
17:45:06  <andythenorth> what’s ELRD defining?
17:46:20  <supermop> trolley grf doesn't define ELRD anywhere
17:46:29  <supermop> docklands is loaded
17:49:53  <supermop> If I play a game without docklands, hence no ELRD, trolleybuses still available in ROAD depot
17:50:47  <andythenorth> does docklands define ELRD?
17:50:57  <supermop> yeah
17:51:11  <supermop> but vehicles show up even without it
17:58:31  <frosch> ottd knows about ELRD by default
17:58:52  <supermop> ok
17:59:26  <frosch> there is a blank at the start of your grf's name btw :)
17:59:33  <supermop> but I set the road_type to ELRD, but they seem to still be ROAD vehicles
17:59:34  <frosch> don't put spaces after the ":" in the lng files
18:00:24  <frosch> can you paste your source somewhere?
18:01:32  <supermop>
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18:02:18  <supermop> ignore the common properties part that's commented out
18:03:55  <frosch> i see, we made nml<->ottd slightly inconsistent
18:04:03  <frosch> you need a roadttype_translationtable
18:04:32  <frosch> i guess this should be fixed in nml
18:04:58  <supermop> what does that table do/ do you have an example?
18:05:31  <frosch> add "roadtypetable { ROAD, ELRD }" at the top, after grf {}
18:05:38  <frosch> (i believe that is the syntax)
18:05:44  <Eddi|zuHause> it matches whatever roadtypes you use in the grf to the ones that are actually defined in the game
18:05:57  <supermop> ok
18:06:06  <supermop> just that would fix it?
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18:06:20  <Eddi|zuHause> because you can't assume that the types are always there, or defined in the same order
18:06:20  <frosch> yes, as a work around, but we should fix nml to make it also work without :)
18:06:28  <frosch> Eddi|zuHause: no
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18:06:50  <frosch> the thing is that nml knows about default road and railtypes
18:07:20  <frosch> but ottd actually does not accept default-roadtypes unless explicitly defined, to make old rv/tram sets compatible
18:07:37  <frosch> but ottd behaves differently for roadtypes vs. railtypes
18:07:45  <frosch> s/vs/compared to/
18:14:00  <supermop> ok works as expected now
18:14:08  <supermop> will update post
18:14:47  <frosch> i pushed a fix to nml, though in this case "fix" means that it would not compile the grf without the roadtypetable
18:15:12  <frosch> so, no advantage in upgrading for you :)
18:16:05  <supermop> thanks
18:16:10  <supermop> :)
18:16:13  <supermop>
18:16:18  <supermop> fixed/updated
18:16:49  <supermop> as is trolley buses can go to drive in stops
18:16:59  <supermop> that's intended
18:17:16  <supermop> but open to differing opinions
18:17:56  <supermop> they can also overtake each other, which is unrealistic, but I want them to be able to pass regular trucks, which is realistic
18:18:16  <supermop> and major advantage irl vs. trams
18:20:49  <supermop> is it possible to make a dual mode truck that can drive on ROAD, but has more power on ELRD?
18:21:24  <frosch> yes
18:21:38  <frosch> set the property to ROAD
18:22:04  <frosch> and add a "power" case to the "graphics" section, which goes to a switch, which checks "current_roadtype"
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18:31:47  <frosch> supermop: <- something like that
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18:41:20  <supermop> cool thanks!
18:41:59  <supermop> I might add a new generation but have the same time scale
18:42:25  <frosch> thanks as well :) good that someone uses it
18:44:30  <supermop> well now we can test things like how to electrify town roads
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18:45:46  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27748 trunk/src/lang/polish.txt (2017-02-25 19:45:38 +0100 )
18:45:47  <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints:
18:45:48  <DorpsGek> polish: 1 change by wojteks86
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19:02:31  <andythenorth> supermop: I am probably going to do trolley-assist mining trucks
19:02:44  <andythenorth> it’s completely stupid for gameplay, but I don’t think I’ll be able to resist :P
19:03:10  <andythenorth> I did same with an engine in IH; bad ideas that we do ‘because we can’ :D
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19:14:51  <Wolf01> andythenorth:
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19:16:32  <andythenorth> yes
19:17:01  <Wolf01> Also the ETF one, maybe a consist of them in HAUL :D
19:17:36  <Wolf01>
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20:01:23  * andythenorth considers a micro economy
20:01:26  <andythenorth> mining
20:02:53  <andythenorth> dragline -> primary crusher -> final crusher -> bulk ore terminal
20:03:10  <andythenorth> would need a tailored base set for the landscape though eh :P
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20:43:42  <Wolf01> Seem that V is into mining too
21:30:34  <supermop_home> Tonka trucks?
21:31:02  <supermop_home> the trolley/panto Tonka trucks look BA
21:33:30  <supermop_home> :( no downloads yet
21:37:00  <supermop_home> ok whats the greater priority now, given that I personally cannot fix the ELRL on town roads issue? more generic non-electric trams? road grf with dirt roads?
21:37:47  <supermop_home> andythenorth: bucket ropeway as roadtype?
21:38:59  <frosch> supermop_home: forum download counter has been broken for years
21:39:17  <supermop_home> :,,,(
21:40:03  <supermop_home> i hope the truck names are neither offensive nor too verbose
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21:47:21  <supermop_home> hmm on 20 tile test track, higher top speed of default truck wins over higher hp of trolleytruck
21:47:39  <frosch> also uphill?
21:48:16  <supermop_home> no hills. next ill add more stops
21:49:07  <supermop_home> oh accel was on original
21:51:24  <andythenorth> :)
21:52:55  <supermop_home> ok now with a hill climb straight up 10 height levels
21:53:07  <supermop_home> wish we had regenerative brakeing
21:54:48  <supermop_home> hmm the trolley truck looks much faster on the hill but its only a 2 day difference on timetable
21:54:58  <supermop_home> maybe it needs even more power
21:55:44  <supermop_home> regular is 223 hp for 12t, trolley is 700 for 10t
21:56:57  <supermop_home> the effect is much more noticeable on stop and start traffic than even on steep hill climbs
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22:02:59  <supermop_home> frosch is it possible to have a running cost switch for decelerating ?
22:03:49  <andythenorth> do both trucks weigh the same?
22:04:08  <supermop_home> and even more exotic: vehicle is already at top speed but gravity wants it to accelerate
22:04:22  <supermop_home> andythenorth: trolley truck 2 tons lighter
22:04:41  <frosch> supermop_home: i think some ukrs version had that
22:04:57  <frosch> but generally that is kind of pointless micro management
22:05:10  <supermop_home> watching this truck run downhill I want some of that free electricity back
22:05:13  <frosch> unless you play like rondje, every truck will go as much uphill as downhill
22:05:23  <frosch> so jsut pick an average running cost in the first place
22:06:12  <supermop_home> what if it goes downhill with full load, and uphill empty? I should be selling the extra electricity back to the power company
22:07:06  <supermop_home> then at night time when the power is cheap we drive all of the load back up the mountain to repeat tomorrow :)
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