Log for #openttd on 27th February 2017:
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00:13:41  <Samu> in a ai game with 5,000 road vehicles, running costs went from -£4,959,499 to -£3,559,173
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01:06:28  <Wolf01> 'night
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05:37:07  <supermop> well that was odd
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08:34:55  <Alberth> moin
08:40:08  <V453000> yo
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08:46:54  <Alberth> hi hi, V
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10:59:45  <Samu> hi
11:00:40  <Samu> check it out
11:01:41  <Samu> year 1948, on the left with the running costs pausing while loading/unloading, on the right with default 1.6.1
11:02:22  <Samu> don't look at year 1947, only a few months were counted in that
11:08:49  <Samu> about 13%, 14% less running costs
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11:14:39  <crem> Not that large difference.
11:20:37  <Samu> it's something
11:21:02  <Samu> should benefit close distances much more than long distances
11:26:49  <peter1138> but it's wrong
11:26:53  <Samu> i guess for busses, the costs would be about the double
11:27:12  <Samu> they have to unload, then load, they stay a bit longer
11:27:21  <peter1138> it was always by design that running costs continue
11:27:39  <peter1138> newgrfs can control it as well
11:28:29  <Samu> i only did this to non-drive through road stops
11:28:41  <Samu> standard road stops
11:29:08  <Samu> bool pause_running_cost = this->current_order.GetType() == OT_LOADING && IsStandardRoadStopTile(this->tile);
11:29:31  <Samu> 	if (!pause_running_cost) { 		this->profit_this_year -= cost.GetCost(); 		SubtractMoneyFromCompanyFract(this->owner, cost);
11:29:37  <Samu> }
11:31:39  <Samu> i tested NARS newgrf
11:31:49  <Samu> it does something strange in the vehicle details
11:32:12  <Samu> the running cost per year is changed
11:32:34  <Alberth> your code is wrong, openttd is not the place to solve these problems, a NewGRF must do it instead
11:32:38  <Samu> changes when it's loading/unloading train
11:32:55  <Samu> :(
11:33:39  <Alberth> a NewGRF author is in control how those costs work, so you cannot override that behavior
11:34:46  <Samu> i dunno how to make a newgrf, or maybe I know, but I'm not in the mood
11:34:59  <Samu> i made a few, simple newgrfs before
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11:36:35  <Alberth> I am just saying that what you can technically do is not necessarily a good solution, or a viable solution
11:37:06  <Alberth> due to rules or agreements elsewhere made
11:39:40  <Samu> can I keep the running cost per year in the vehicle details with a newgrf, while still achieving the same behaviour of pausing running costs?
11:40:53  <Samu> if it's -£500/yr and the vehicle is loading, i'd still want it to display -£500/yr instead of £0/yr
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11:47:23  <Alberth> that sounds wrong
11:47:46  <Alberth> if the vehicle loads for a whole year, you didn't pay 500 pound
11:52:52  <Samu> it is misleading
11:53:18  <Samu> i guess it's never the correct value
11:55:28  <Samu> if the vehicle is stopped in the depot, it still says -£500/yr
11:57:01  <Samu> if I stop the vehicle manually, it still says the same
11:57:05  <Samu> you see what i mean
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12:01:01  <Wolf01> o/
12:02:18  <crem> \o
12:06:44  <Alberth> I do, Samu. I think the best you can do is show the current cost, which is also what openttd does
12:06:47  <Alberth> o/
12:07:13  <Wolf01> Still trying to break grfs?
12:10:42  <Alberth> bbl
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12:14:15  <Samu> uh, openttd doesn't always show the current cost
12:14:49  <Samu> the real running cost of a stopped vehicle in the depot is £0
12:15:15  <Samu> if it's stopped the entire year, it's still £0
12:15:27  <Samu> and yet it displays -£500/yr
12:48:07  <Samu> hmm, should the engines still be off when the vehicle is "Leaving" a station but is blocked by another road vehicle entering the station?
12:49:24  <Wolf01> Do you turn off the engine while waiting behind another vehicle?
12:50:03  <Samu> i don't know, i don't drive
12:50:37  <Samu> in the game is says "leaving" but it has yet to move or play the engine sound
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12:51:11  <Samu> i think the engine is off
12:52:09  <peter1138> still requires maintenance
12:52:49  <peter1138> nah that's depot costs
12:52:53  <peter1138> whatever the reasoning was :p
12:55:57  <Wolf01> The drive through roadstops loading system should be reviewed, with 2 vehicles the one which is loading should always be the first one in line, if you are merging 2 lines on the same roadstop then you are doing it wrong :P
13:01:45  <Samu> OT_LEAVESTATION
13:01:47  <Samu> got it
13:03:01  <Samu> this->current_order.GetType() == (OT_LOADING || OT_LEAVESTATION) - is this good coding?
13:03:18  <Samu> whatever, gonna tyry
13:03:20  <Samu> try
13:03:40  <Samu> warning C4805: '==': unsafe mix of type 'OrderType' and type 'bool' in operation
13:03:42  <Samu> nop
13:06:02  <Samu> bool pause_running_cost = this->current_order.GetType() == OT_LOADING || this->current_order.GetType() == OT_LEAVESTATION && IsStandardRoadStopTile(this->tile);
13:06:05  <Samu> better, but longer
13:06:50  <Wolf01> Is there a OrderTypeByte or something?
13:07:57  <Samu> there is OrderType
13:08:05  <Samu> enum OrderType
13:08:47  <Wolf01> Below that, there's some other definition?
13:09:35  <Samu> enum OrderType { 	OT_BEGIN         = 0, 	OT_NOTHING       = 0, 	OT_GOTO_STATION  = 1, 	OT_GOTO_DEPOT    = 2, 	OT_LOADING       = 3, 	OT_LEAVESTATION  = 4, 	OT_DUMMY         = 5, 	OT_GOTO_WAYPOINT = 6, 	OT_CONDITIONAL   = 7, 	OT_IMPLICIT     = 8, 	OT_END };
13:10:14  <Wolf01> BTW, I would do this "this->current_order.GetType() && (OT_LOADING | OT_LEAVESTATION) > 0", but I don't know if it's really correct
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13:13:00  <Wolf01> Also, I asked for this "typedef SimpleTinyEnumT<OrderType, byte> OrderTypeByte;"
13:13:20  <Wolf01> Which is 2 lines below
13:13:34  <Samu> oh, sorry, :(
13:15:37  <Samu> testing the same savegame, now with OT_LEAVING as well
13:15:45  <Wolf01> Btw, it might need some bitshifting as they aren't flags
13:15:56  <Samu> running cost savings should increase
13:16:01  <Samu> let's see...
13:19:58  <Samu> it was with only OT_LOADING
13:20:30  <Samu> from -£15,200 to -£13,160, to -£13,124 with OT_LEAVESTATION
13:20:59  <Samu> barelly a difference, because my road vehicles are actually not waiting much in the stations
13:23:11  <Samu> might need a heavily congestioned  savegame, an AI perhaps
13:33:56  <Samu> nice, it works, i just had to simulate a vehicle blocking another from exiting the station
13:34:19  <Samu> this might happen more often when breakdowns are enabled
14:11:33  <Samu> tested a RoadAI savegame
14:12:11  <Samu> 5000 road vehicles, running costs went from -£4,959,499 to -£3,533,194
14:13:22  <Samu> about 28% less
14:13:47  <Wolf01> Still think that is the AI which should be fixed
14:14:01  <Samu> roadai only using buses
14:14:15  <Wolf01> So I do
14:19:03  <Samu> hmm, buffing buses wasn't exactly what I had in mind...
14:20:24  <Samu> my idea was more of a short distance buff for road vehicles
14:20:55  <Samu> buses actually fit this criteria quite nicely :(
14:21:01  <Samu> oh well
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14:35:53  <supermop__> yo
14:37:09  <supermop__> ok i've drawn up trolleybus wires
14:37:31  <supermop__> as intended they make a huge mess at X junctions
14:39:02  <Alberth> intended mess :)
14:40:22  <supermop__> now just need to code them
14:40:51  <supermop__> should it be a wire only grf? or part of a road set?
14:43:35  <Alberth> one grf for each vehicle :)
14:44:01  <Alberth> nah, just throw it all together, imho
14:44:21  <Alberth> you can always just disable the vehicles of it :)
14:46:03  <supermop__> ah i mean as part of a set of roadtypes
14:47:14  <supermop__> but yeah
14:48:04  <supermop__> i wonder, is there or will there be a way to block a certain roadtype from having a certain tramtype, or vis versa?
14:49:36  <supermop__> eg no tram on highway, no dirt road on higher speed light rail etc
14:53:12  <Wolf01> Yes
14:53:29  <Alberth> there is this "powerdness" concept, that decides when a vehicle has power, not sure if that extends between trams and roads
14:53:58  <Wolf01> I think he means to not being able to build a tramway over a highway
14:54:19  <Alberth> not so much tram/road combinations are forbidden, more that some combinations are utterly useless :)
14:54:53  <supermop__> yes, what Wolf01 is saying
14:55:27  <Alberth> don't remember discussions about this aspect, but that doesn't mean much
14:56:22  <supermop__> also, currently trolleywire just seems to be front and back, whereas i vaguely recall that train catenary has the wire itself/ and the supports
14:56:41  <Wolf01> It's a huge compatibility-shit, but in future it should be done
14:56:55  <Alberth> also not sure what the point is of forbidding it; sure it'll look weird, but if that bothers you, don't do it?
14:57:22  <supermop__> in the future i might be interested in differentiating the support pylons a bit -
14:57:23  <Wolf01> Could say the same of disabling level crossings
14:57:32  <Samu>
14:57:39  <Samu> just posted
14:58:16  <supermop__> i drew my wires as the kind you see in older towns, where a hanger wire is strung across the street and holds the conducting wire
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14:59:00  <supermop__> as opposed to the sort of high tension with strut in the ogfx/foobar's trollewire
15:00:11  <supermop__> it might be nice to have light rail, and modern trolley trucks have that more catenary type look, whereas mining roads and old streetcar lines have the hung wire
15:00:49  <supermop__> problem is, what if i build modern light rail over old fashioned trolley bus street
15:01:28  <supermop__> there is no way to change the trolleybus wire to be more modern - so maybe better to disallow and avoid mess of pixels
15:07:21  <supermop__> it's academic at the moment as i have not drawn any 'fancier' wires yet
15:07:50  <supermop__> but thinking about it led me to ponder other cases, like the tram on a highway
15:08:43  <supermop__> or - what if i abuse tram to make a gondola. you could of course build roads under a cable path, but maybe it looks bad in some cases
15:13:21  <supermop__> if i have a grf that defines a new catenary for ELRD and ELRL, any other new roadtypes defined by a later grf in the list will not use the new wires, right?
15:19:48  <supermop__> anyone know of a gpl set with nice looking tram tracks i can steal?
15:27:28  <Samu> i have another idea, which I had years ago
15:27:37  <Samu> maybe now I can code it
15:27:41  <Samu> nerf trains
15:27:52  <Samu> by increasing running costs based on the number of wagons
15:28:25  <Samu> or perhaps based on train size
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15:29:43  <Wolf01> It's already done through power, more wagons, more power required to move them, not enough HP? The train won't reach full speed (maybe even half of that) and you pay the same for a slower train
15:30:18  <UntouchedWagons> Hi there, what environment do you guys use to compile openttd?
15:32:09  <UntouchedWagons> I've tried to compile openttd on anything that'll work and it's driving me up the wall
15:37:02  <LordAro> UntouchedWagons: what have you tried?
15:37:18  <UntouchedWagons> I've tried cygwin32, cygwin64, mingw32, mingw64 and visual studio
15:37:48  <UntouchedWagons> the first four all fail to compile because the compiler can't find various networking related data structures. Visual studio fails with over 600 errors
15:38:14  <LordAro> have you read ?
15:38:21  <UntouchedWagons> yes
15:38:40  <LordAro> hmm
15:39:04  <LordAro> i probably can't help much more then, given i'm currently lacking any windows programming environment
15:39:16  <LordAro> it *does* work though, i assure you
15:39:24  <LordAro> although it's definitely not the easiest to set up
15:41:12  <UntouchedWagons> compiling on windows has never struck me as remotely easy
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15:41:36  <LordAro> well, that too
15:41:36  <LordAro> :)
15:45:42  <UntouchedWagons> I think this is how alcohol abuse starts
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15:49:55  <UntouchedWagons> The compile errors if anyone compiles openttd for windows:
15:52:44  <Samu> i use windows 10
15:53:08  <Samu> microsoft visual studio 2015
15:53:15  <Samu> update 3
15:54:36  <Samu> it compiles fine for me, but sometimes visual studio is dumb
15:55:22  <LordAro> UntouchedWagons: that's very curious set of error messages
15:55:32  <LordAro> looks like some sort of defines are being set when they shouldn't be
15:55:57  <LordAro> i don't know enough of the details though, you'd be best waiting for frosch or similar to appear
15:56:10  <supermop__> trolleywire grf name: "Spool" or "Unspoolled"?
15:56:17  <Samu> when visual studio is acting stupid, i sometimes resort to starting everything all over, delete entire folders, etc..., from scratch
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15:56:59  <Samu> visual studio caches many crap, and sometimes this cache is wrong, outdated or whatever...
15:57:15  <Samu> if i start over from scratc,, i usually succeed
15:58:35  <UntouchedWagons> In the tutorial on the wiki for VS2015, it says to put the headers/libraries for openttd-useful before the default ones which I've done, but I still get the C4430 error
15:58:43  <UntouchedWagons> among other numerous errors
15:59:10  <Alberth> it seems you're missing a network library
15:59:21  <Wolf01> The default ones must be replaced, it won't work with those
16:00:05  <Alberth> or rather, an include file, but it picks up a different file with the same name, or you'd get "missing include file"
16:01:00  <UntouchedWagons> I don't think I follow Wolf01
16:01:13  <UntouchedWagons> I'll check for any network libraries in the cygwin repos
16:03:35  <UntouchedWagons> when I run "./configure --with-lzo2=/usr/lib/liblzo2.dll.a", it does say "checking network... found" so I don't know what's going on
16:04:11  <Wolf01> Or the best you can do is to make a .user file where you load the openttd-useful, so you can share it between project without editing the project files
16:04:28  <Alberth> it does find something network, or #include of the network file would fail
16:04:50  <Alberth> instead, it fails to know stuff that is supposed to be defined in that included file
16:05:25  <Alberth> that means, it considers a file to be a network-related file, which is not actually a network file
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16:06:09  <Wolf01> <-
16:06:25  <Wolf01> Replace the ENV vars I used with the actual paths
16:07:13  <Wolf01> $(VC_LibraryPath_x86);$(WindowsSDK_LibraryPath_x86);$(NETFXKitsDir)Lib\um\x86 <- these always break things
16:07:29  <Samu> Money Train::GetRunningCost() const - MUAHhahahahah
16:07:33  <Samu> time to nerf
16:08:05  <Wolf01> I used to get rid of them and magically the build succeeded
16:08:08  <UntouchedWagons> so what where would I put this file?
16:08:46  <Wolf01> Name it vs140.vcxproj.user and put it in the project folder
16:08:57  <UntouchedWagons> oh okay. I'll try that
16:09:00  <Wolf01> VS automatically loads it
16:09:29  <UntouchedWagons> I'd still open the sln file right?
16:09:38  <Wolf01> Yes
16:09:52  <UntouchedWagons> all right, I'll give it another go
16:10:10  <Wolf01> Oh, also you need to use openttd-useful 6.1 iirc
16:10:49  <Wolf01> Or it was 5.1 -> 6.0
16:10:54  <UntouchedWagons> I'll need a link to that, 404's
16:11:10  <UntouchedWagons> I've got 6.0 already
16:11:50  <Wolf01> Then it should be ok
16:12:08  <Wolf01> 5.1 doesn't work with VS14
16:12:21  <Samu> multi-headed, multi-engine, consist
16:13:00  <Samu> i need to familiarize with these terms
16:13:29  <Samu> "Get the next real (non-articulated part) vehicle in the consist."
16:13:56  <Wolf01> (]-[]-[]-[]-[) - multi-headed
16:14:14  <Wolf01> (]-(]-[]-[] - multi-engine
16:14:54  <Alberth> who needs 2.5D ghraphics if lines of ASCII art suffices :)
16:15:10  <Wolf01> /¯¯¯¯||¯¯¯¯||¯¯¯¯||¯¯¯¯||¯¯¯¯\
16:16:16  <Samu> i wonder what exactly a "vehicle" is in train language
16:16:33  <Samu> are there articulated wagons?
16:16:41  <UntouchedWagons> yeah there's articulared wagons
16:16:55  <UntouchedWagons> those flatbed cars that hold the shipping containers share boggies
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16:17:24  <Samu> i need a newgrf with an articulated wagon, for testing
16:17:29  <Wolf01> Vehicle is almost anything not tied to the map
16:17:58  <Wolf01> Trains, buses, ships, shadows, sparks, smoke...
16:20:41  <Wolf01> An articulated wagon/engine is composed by multiple vehicles
16:21:27  <Wolf01> So "Get the next real (non-articulated part) vehicle in the consist." means the next wagon/engine, not the next vehicle (which could be the other half of the engine)
16:25:19  <UntouchedWagons> all right I'm gonna try compiling openttd with that .user file
16:26:20  <UntouchedWagons> 655 errors...
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16:28:20  <Alberth> error count has not much meaning, most errors are caused by earlier ones
16:31:27  <Samu> if (e->u.rail.running_cost_class == INVALID_PRICE) continue;
16:31:33  <Samu> so, wagons have INVALID_PRICE
16:31:57  <UntouchedWagons> No I don't
16:32:06  <Samu> INVALID_PRICE aka 0
16:32:10  <Samu> must nerf
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16:40:44  <UntouchedWagons> so yeah Wolf01 that file didn't work
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17:04:56  <supermop__> can i just set ELRD and ELRL catenary without setting all the other properties for the roadtype
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17:12:40  <frosch123> hoi
17:13:11  <frosch123> @seen andythenorth
17:13:11  <DorpsGek> frosch123: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 19 hours, 9 minutes, and 0 seconds ago: <andythenorth> also bed
17:13:20  <frosch123> i guess the sharks got him
17:13:58  <UntouchedWagons> RIP
17:15:53  <frosch123> i wonder whether or*dge will ban everyone who posted in the change-username topic :)
17:17:10  <supermop__> hi frosch123
17:25:25  <Alberth> hola
17:26:00  <V453000> slugsharks for sure
17:27:26  <Alberth> or pythonsharks
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17:30:16  <V453000> or those
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17:37:38  <Samu> calculating train vehicle lenght is hard
17:37:50  <Samu> it must have been done before, have to find
17:41:24  <Samu> CeilDiv(u->gcache.cached_total_length * 10, TILE_SIZE)
17:41:29  <Samu> let's try
17:45:21  <Samu> hmm nop
17:45:22  <Samu> cached_veh_length
17:49:43  <Samu> hmm so, a train of size 0,5, is actually size 5
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17:49:51  <Samu> 1,0 is 10
17:49:55  <Samu> ok, got it
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18:12:41  <Samu> how do i calculate the lenght of a multi-headed train?
18:12:54  <Samu> or are both parts always the same lenght?
18:13:22  <Samu> if one is 5, the other is also 5?
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18:23:42  <Samu> nop
18:27:36  <supermop__> if i define a new catenary for ELRD in one grf, and then load another grf that defines a roadtype that uses default catenary, there is no way to make that subsequent roadtype use the special catenary i defined?
18:28:40  <frosch123> yup
18:28:55  <frosch123> there is only one global catenary
18:29:03  <frosch123> and then catenary per road/tram type
18:30:05  <Samu> so, a single headed engine can be articulated
18:30:19  <Samu> this is a mess for me :(
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18:30:34  <UntouchedWagons> try compiling openttd and you'll see what a mess is
18:31:05  <Samu> :)
18:31:10  <ST2> I use VS 2013 and compiles like a charm
18:31:34  <ST2> some warnings, but expected, due the applied changes
18:31:34  <Samu> are there multi-headed engines that are not articulated?
18:31:56  <Samu> isn't it inherently articulated if it's multi-headed?
18:32:18  <UntouchedWagons> I've tried 5 different build environments and I can't get it to compile
18:33:18  <Samu> multi-articulated-headed engines
18:35:36  <Samu> this is harder than i initially thought
18:37:50  <Samu> cached_veh_length is not the lenght of the vehicle, but the lenght of the articulated part of this vehicle
18:38:14  <Samu> if there are 2 parts, i only get the lenght of 1
18:38:24  <Samu> what can I do?
18:39:44  <peter1138> it's definitely already calculated
18:40:33  <Samu> hmm then im doing this wrong
18:40:51  <supermop__> can i just replace the global cat?
18:41:08  <Samu> uint16 veh_len = CeilDiv(v->gcache.cached_total_length * 10, TILE_SIZE);
18:41:14  <Samu> uint16 unc_len = CeilDiv(v->gcache.cached_veh_length * 10, TILE_SIZE);
18:41:22  <frosch123> you can via action5
18:41:30  <Samu> i got a single headed articulated train from NARS
18:41:49  <Samu> veh_len is 7
18:41:53  <Samu> unc_len is 3
18:42:20  <frosch123> but there is only one newgrf that wins :)
18:42:49  <frosch123> the catenary is also shared for road and tram
18:42:58  <Samu> unc_len is 4, actually, my bad
18:45:49  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by translators :: r27761 /trunk/src/lang (4 files) (2017-02-27 19:45:37 +0100 )
18:45:50  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: -Update from Eints:
18:45:51  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: croatian: 3 changes by VoyagerOne
18:45:52  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: italian: 5 changes by lorenzodv
18:45:53  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: english (us): 4 changes by Supercheese
18:45:54  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: (...)
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18:47:37  <Samu> i'm trying to come up with a way to get a sum_len of parts of the train that do not have running costs attached to them
18:47:52  <Samu> like, some wagons
18:48:42  <supermop__> you guys have an idea for a standard label for dirt roards or highways yet?
18:49:12  <frosch123> "DIRT" would be obvious :p
18:49:36  <frosch123> i recall "HWAY" from somewhere
18:49:54  <supermop__> cobblestone?
18:50:07  <frosch123> CBST?
18:51:40  <Samu> DIRO
18:51:53  <Samu> or DRTR
18:52:05  <Samu> DIRT
18:58:20  <supermop__> i wonder what andy want's his trolley assist mining trucks to drive on
18:58:34  <supermop__> ELDR?
18:59:06  <supermop__> some kind of electric HAUL?
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19:06:49  <Wolf01> You could leave RD RL parts of, as they are already split, DIRT and HWAY are good
19:07:31  <supermop__> need more letters for ELDIRT and ELHWAY
19:07:51  <Wolf01> ELDT and ELHW
19:11:42  <supermop__> ok i might put together a grf with dirt, cobble streets, asphalt roads, and highways/ all with and without wires
19:12:18  <frosch123> railtypes usually shorten electrified to just "E"
19:12:51  <Wolf01> Then let's keep the same syntax
19:13:37  <Wolf01> More than half of the slots :D
19:13:43  <Wolf01> 8/15
19:14:26  <Wolf01> 10 if you count the hardcoded ones
19:14:41  <supermop__> Wolf01: this is just to show people a variety of types
19:14:51  <Wolf01> Then use all of them
19:15:10  <supermop__> cobblestone kind of worthless though
19:15:16  <Wolf01> Wetroads
19:16:14  <supermop__> because either cobble or asphalt will be built by towns, not both
19:18:44  <UntouchedWagons> I'm gonna try disabling networking because this is stupid. I've spent 10 hours trying to get this game to compile
19:19:30  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
19:19:49  <Wolf01> Ho! Here you are
19:20:24  <UntouchedWagons> and compilation still failed
19:20:37  <andythenorth> so it seems I didn’t break FIRS <-> eints
19:20:51  <Wolf01> Did you try with clean trunk or with a patch?
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19:20:58  <UntouchedWagons> patch pack
19:21:08  <Wolf01> Better try with clean trunk first
19:21:10  <UntouchedWagons> it's failing on the music stuff now
19:22:37  <UntouchedWagons> Okay I'll try that
19:25:57  <UntouchedWagons> it fails to compile if networking is enabled for the same reason
19:26:11  <UntouchedWagons> >error: ‘SetNonBlocking’ declared as an ‘inline’ variable
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19:26:46  <Wolf01> IMHO it collides with windows' libraries
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19:29:30  <Samu> try clean solution
19:29:32  <Wolf01> And andythenorth -> , also I must go now, bye
19:29:34  <Samu> then rebuild all
19:29:46  <UntouchedWagons> I'm using cygwin again at the moment
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19:30:10  <Samu> Build > Clean Solution, then Build > Rebuild All
19:30:31  <UntouchedWagons> all right I'll try visual studio again
19:30:41  <frosch123> andythenorth: <- you need that for firs
19:30:59  <frosch123> eints is inactive for firs currently
19:31:24  <LordAro> p
19:31:40  <LordAro> hmm.
19:32:02  <UntouchedWagons> Visual studio still fails to compile with 635 errors
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19:36:18  <UntouchedWagons> I'm gonna try rebooting
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19:38:56  <UntouchedWagons> No, rebooting didn't do anything
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19:46:37  <glx> UntouchedWagons: VS version and OTTD useful version ?
19:47:15  <UntouchedWagons> visual studio community 2015 update 3, useful 6.0
19:50:41  <andythenorth> frosch123: interestingly, .devzone/translations/langdir exists for me locally
19:50:47  <andythenorth> but not in the repo
19:50:57  <andythenorth> and hg does not see the file
19:51:34  <frosch123> .hgignore?
19:51:34  <andythenorth> file is untracked by hg
19:52:02  <andythenorth> translations/ is in .hgignore
19:52:04  <andythenorth> dunno why
19:52:14  <andythenorth> glob syntax will match that in a subpath?
19:53:02  <andythenorth> anyway, fixed and pushed
19:54:23  <Samu> question again: are there multi-headed articulated engines?
19:54:44  <andythenorth> no
19:54:46  <andythenorth> not possible
19:54:51  <Samu> or maybe i'm asking the wrong question
19:54:57  <Samu> there's so many terms
19:55:08  <glx> UntouchedWagons: same version here and it builds fine
19:55:09  <andythenorth> it’s a valid question
19:55:36  <Samu> is_multiheaded
19:55:41  <Samu> is_rear_dualheaded
19:55:45  <Samu> is_articulated_part
19:55:50  <Samu> what is the difference
19:56:44  <UntouchedWagons> it's like visual studio can't see useful's header files or something dumb like that
19:57:00  <UntouchedWagons> can I see your project properties for openttd?
19:58:07  <glx> you must tell VS where useful headers and libs are
19:59:12  <Samu> my include directories : D:\OpenTTD\OpenTTD essentials\shared\include;$(IncludePath)
19:59:29  <andythenorth> dual_headed = engine at front and rear
19:59:31  <Samu> for configuration debug x64
19:59:37  <Samu> platform x64
19:59:58  <Samu> my library directories: D:\OpenTTD\OpenTTD essentials\win64\library;$(LibraryPath)
20:00:28  <glx> and it's better to set them in a custom property page
20:01:02  <UntouchedWagons>
20:01:08  <Samu> i made a copy paste of trunk\projects instead
20:01:26  <Samu> i use trunk\projects Cópia
20:01:33  <Samu> and leave the original one untouched
20:01:54  <Samu> can't be arsed to create a custom user thingy thing
20:02:07  <Samu> dont even know how it works
20:02:46  <glx> seems correct UntouchedWagons
20:04:44  <UntouchedWagons> well it's still not working after trying for 10 hours
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20:07:53  <Samu> try Tools > Import and Export Settings, then Reset all settings
20:08:48  <UntouchedWagons> done
20:09:16  *** cHawk has quit IRC
20:09:59  <UntouchedWagons> still fails to compile
20:10:12  <glx> what's the first error ?
20:10:35  <UntouchedWagons> Severity	Code	Description	Project	File	Line	Suppression State
20:10:35  <UntouchedWagons> Error	C2061	syntax error: identifier 'ssize_t' (compiling source file ..\src\airport.cpp)	openttd	c:\users\jordan\documents\projects\openttd-patches\srcrdparty\cpp-btree\btree.h	889
20:11:06  <UntouchedWagons> dunno where that first line came from
20:11:15  <michi_cc> Not from trunk.
20:12:16  <michi_cc> Whatever patch or patch pack that is, it seems somewhat broken.
20:12:39  <UntouchedWagons> It's the jgrpp pack
20:12:56  <UntouchedWagons> I'll try with the openttd 1.6.1 code
20:13:03  <glx> first try to compile clean trunk without any patch
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20:14:41  <frosch123> andythenorth: is 2048 strings enough for firs?
20:14:56  <UntouchedWagons> okay 1.6.1 code seems to be compiling
20:15:15  <frosch123> raising the DCxx limit from 256 to 2048 seems to be a piece of cake
20:17:54  <andythenorth> frosch123: 640K is probably enough for anyone, tbh
20:18:17  <UntouchedWagons> lol
20:19:09  <frosch123> i already had fun reading ttdp source today :)
20:19:55  <andythenorth> apparently gates never said 640k was enough
20:19:57  <andythenorth> but eh, quotes
20:20:29  <andythenorth> DCxx strings used: 233/256
20:20:56  <andythenorth> unless we add random station names and go nuts with them, 2048 should be more than enough
20:21:02  <V453000> WOT?
20:21:11  <andythenorth> nuts nuts nuts
20:21:13  <V453000> one doesn't simply go nuts
20:21:20  <V453000> I don't have a highlight on nuts btw
20:21:22  <andythenorth> ha
20:21:28  <UntouchedWagons> Okay it's done compiling. Why is openttd.exe not put in the bin folder?
20:21:29  <andythenorth> what do you have highlights on?
20:21:35  <V453000> just my nick
20:21:36  <andythenorth> that I could plausibly use in normal conversation
20:21:39  <andythenorth> oh
20:21:40  <andythenorth> boring
20:21:45  <V453000> haha
20:21:49  * andythenorth used to have highlights, but deleted most of them
20:22:11  <frosch123> i used to get highlighted by earth-quak-e, but i fixed the rules
20:23:08  <andythenorth> ha
20:23:17  <andythenorth> 2048 is plenty
20:23:29  <andythenorth> FIRS is definitely not ‘done’, but I think I can see ‘done’ from here
20:23:58  <andythenorth> it has 6 economies, I plan to have about 9
20:24:27  <andythenorth> then I just spend a year animating all industries, then drop the mic
20:24:46  <andythenorth> there’s no need to change industry spec ever, except to plant fields
20:25:00  <andythenorth> probably be done around v5 or v6
20:25:06  <andythenorth> maybe I should stop at V453000
20:25:10  <UntouchedWagons> oh are you the firs dev andy?
20:25:16  <V453000> xd
20:25:16  <andythenorth> am I? o_O
20:25:33  <andythenorth> I wasn’t the only one, there used to be more
20:25:34  <UntouchedWagons> I wasn't really paying attention to your conversation tbh
20:25:47  <andythenorth> but somehow my style causes contributors to…find other things to do :P
20:25:48  <Alberth> he's also makefile dev
20:26:21  <andythenorth> :|
20:26:23  <frosch123> and devlolper
20:26:48  <Alberth> and pony collector
20:27:05  <andythenorth> but not newgrf wiki maintainer
20:27:24  <Alberth> :)
20:27:33  <andythenorth> can’t log in
20:27:44  <andythenorth> even after creating entirely new accounts, using a different browser
20:27:47  <andythenorth> maybe I’m banned :D
20:28:03  <Alberth> IP address is considered dangerous :)
20:28:19  <frosch123> andythenorth: do not forget to request nick changes for your unused accounts
20:28:39  <V453000> xd
20:28:52  <andythenorth> the more I look like a sock puppet, the more likely I am to get unbanned? o_O
20:29:59  <frosch123> V453000: some douchebag registered to forums just to request a nickchange (nick change post 3 minutes after registration)
20:30:04  <frosch123> i bet it was thar worly guy
20:30:13  <ST2> who's not affraid of Wiki when the head admins are pompuosly called "Bureaucrat" - imo it's the fear of the term :P
20:30:32  <V453000> wtf
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20:46:25  <Wolf01> So it seem I came back early
20:51:02  <supermop_> WELCOME BACK WOLF
20:51:13  <Wolf01> No need to scream :P
20:51:56  <supermop_> autocad just makes me very enthusiastic in IRC at times
20:53:05  <supermop_> is there any use for stone paved roads in game
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20:54:14  <frosch123> isnt't that just a more modern version of cobblestone?
20:54:21  <supermop_> spent like 2 weeks in history class when i lived in england in middle school on british road paving developments in the early industrial period
20:58:11  <andythenorth> ah the diagrams
20:58:14  <andythenorth> mud road
20:58:19  <andythenorth> roman road, with camber
20:58:23  <andythenorth> telford roads
20:58:37  <andythenorth> if you change school, like I did, you get to do that twice
20:58:44  <andythenorth> also canals, at least twice
20:59:09  <andythenorth> and the romans, twice.  under-floor heating such
21:02:31  <supermop_> haha yes
21:03:04  <supermop_> all the variations of composition of rocks in cross section
21:03:30  <supermop_> roads to move armies around scottland
21:04:23  <supermop_> all of the improvements to looms
21:06:47  *** supermop has quit IRC
21:09:05  <supermop_> so i've drawn all the trolleywire sprites, i've got a perfectly functioning bit of code for defining different road types, and i've got good looking GPL compliant graphics i can lift from ARRS,
21:09:48  <supermop_> but i cant bring myself to make a grf because i cant decide what types of shittier roads i want to define
21:10:12  <Alberth> throw a die
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21:10:34  <__ln__>
21:10:35  <frosch123> supermop_: make them date dependent
21:10:57  <supermop_> supermop_: towns can't really make use of that yet though, right?
21:11:28  * frosch123 is confused
21:12:01  <supermop_> __ln__: looks dangerous
21:12:18  <supermop_> frosch123: towns can only build ROAD so far
21:12:46  <supermop_> so is ROAD stone paved streets, or asphalt roads?
21:13:13  <frosch123> both, depending on town zone?
21:15:04  <supermop_> we don't want any asphalt in the 1600s or so
21:15:15  <frosch123> noone plays in 1600
21:15:36  <supermop_> but it would also be odd to have stone outside of city center in 2000
21:15:54  <supermop_> and i want to avoid the save and reload to switch thing
21:16:13  *** supermop has joined #openttd
21:16:15  <frosch123> it can convert on the fly
21:16:25  <frosch123> unless you mind the instant switch
21:17:01  <supermop_> it can?
21:17:36  <frosch123> yes, 1969-12-31 cobble stone -> 1970-01-01 asphalt, no problem
21:17:50  <frosch123> may look weird though :)
21:18:07  <supermop_> then on january 1 at 00:00 all stones turn to asphalt?
21:18:56  <frosch123> it may also glitch a little bit since ottd does not redraw everything immediately
21:19:08  <Samu> a multi-headed vehicle is actually 2 vehicles, right?
21:19:18  <frosch123> so it will convert while scrolling :)
21:19:31  <frosch123> or when stuff moves on it
21:19:46  <supermop_> road doesn't know when it was built, right?
21:19:54  <frosch123> nope
21:19:58  <supermop_> ok
21:20:43  <supermop_> what if i just make ROAD asphalt from 0 CE, and hope that NRT in the future allows towns to build other types than only ROAD
21:21:14  <Wolf01> <frosch123> unless you mind the instant switch <- imho we need to introduce some automatic roadworks
21:21:21  <frosch123> i rate that one of the least likely things
21:21:43  <frosch123> there is just no good criterion for towns to decide which type to build
21:24:10  <supermop_> add a value of desirability, town build road with highest value thats available?
21:24:19  <Wolf01> And something like the factory fields?
21:27:29  <Samu> how many heads can a vehicle actually have?
21:27:34  <Samu> 2?
21:27:49  <supermop_> or just town build the latest defined available roadtype that is flagged as buildable by toown
21:28:01  <Samu> "multiheaded" term is a bit ambiguous
21:30:06  <Wolf01> I would make town pick randomly for available flagged roadtypes, and make them available only at certain dates, so you can even have 2 towns with a different roadtype
21:30:27  <Wolf01> s/for/from
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21:34:41  <Wolf01> something like this
21:35:12  <andythenorth> underwater tunnels eh? o_O
21:35:17  <andythenorth>
21:36:12  <Wolf01> With the sealevel patch it should be possible
21:36:34  <andythenorth> there was chunnel patch also
21:36:55  <andythenorth> bedtime also
21:36:56  <andythenorth> bye
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21:39:08  <frosch123> Wolf01: there is also another option for tunnels
21:39:24  <frosch123> there are two ways to build bridges: with ramp or flat
21:39:39  <frosch123> but there is only one way to build tunnels (essentially flat only)
21:40:12  <frosch123> we could add a tunnelentry with a downhill stope into the tunnel
21:40:27  <frosch123> which may not require a real height level below it
21:41:01  <frosch123> anyway, night
21:41:04  *** frosch123 has quit IRC
21:43:53  <__ln__>
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21:54:42  <UntouchedWagons> I need a company name
22:05:29  <Wolf01> Transporter McTransportface
22:10:29  <Maarten> :D
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22:29:54  <supermop_> Wolf01: those seem interesting
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22:44:04  <supermop_> is powered list the types that can drive on this road, or the roads that vehicles of this type can drive on?
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22:45:30  <Wolf01> Lol, I'll never understand that well
22:46:42  <Wolf01> I think is the latter
22:47:25  *** bwn has quit IRC
22:50:29  <Wolf01> lol
22:52:37  <Samu> how do I compute the lenght of an articulated vehicle?
22:52:42  *** guru3 has quit IRC
22:52:44  <Samu> length*
22:52:46  <supermop_> HMM dirt rail?
22:53:07  <Samu> the game doesn't do it correctly, or I'm missing something
22:53:36  <Wolf01> Isn't it just the classic tramway on grass?
22:54:04  <Samu> there is this: static uint GetLengthOfArticulatedVehicle(const Train *v)
22:54:11  <Samu> but it's only for the GUI
22:54:18  <Samu> not exactly what I need
22:55:10  <Eddi|zuHause> i get the image of some hastily placed rails in swamp areas which can only be passed at walk speed
22:55:32  <Eddi|zuHause> because they're not exactly what you would call... straight
22:55:35  <Wolf01> Pointless, there are no swamps on OTTD
22:56:43  <Eddi|zuHause> random first search result
22:57:19  <Wolf01> the first one
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22:59:16  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that was probably the one i had in my head at first
23:01:35  <Samu> 6 + 5 = 11
23:01:43  <Samu> If I don't get 11 now, I cry
23:01:54  <Wolf01> @calc 6+5
23:01:54  <DorpsGek> Wolf01: 11
23:01:59  <Wolf01> Seem like that
23:02:36  <Samu> wow, it was easier than I thought
23:03:00  <Samu> 		do { 			len += v->gcache.cached_veh_length; 			v = v->HasArticulatedPart() ? v->GetNextArticulatedPart() : NULL; 		} while (v != NULL);
23:03:11  <supermop_> Eddi|zuHause: what should i call that
23:03:20  <supermop_> TORF?
23:04:23  <Eddi|zuHause> "torf" is apparently called "peat" in english
23:04:43  <Samu> v was nullptr --- what is this?
23:05:31  <supermop_> i drew creosote soaked wood poles for cheap crappy wire
23:05:46  <Wolf01> That you need to do "do while() {}" and not "do {} while()"
23:08:16  <Samu> ah it was something else, I can't use v
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23:08:28  <Samu> v must not be modified
23:08:48  <Samu> but i need a copy of v when do while is running
23:11:32  <Samu> it's actually a do { do {} while() } while()
23:11:46  <Samu> articulated parts are getting in the way
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23:14:58  <Samu> the first do while is for the vehicle, but a vehicle in itself can be articulated, so i need another do while to account for it
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23:18:18  <Samu> a multi-headed vehicle apparently is 2 vehicles in this situation
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23:39:01  <Samu> I got a train of lenght 48, in which 42 doesn't have a running cost assigned
23:39:17  <Samu> 6 * 8 = 48
23:39:35  <Samu> 1 engine + 5 wagons
23:39:48  <Samu> only the engine have the running cost
23:41:20  <Samu> what should be the running cost of the 5 wagons
23:41:39  <Samu> hmm must think
23:42:54  <Samu> only 8/48 of the train got running cost, the other 42/48 must be based on the running cost of 8/48
23:43:19  <Samu> hmmm help me formulate a formula
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23:54:53  <Samu> i found my very old post
23:55:06  <Samu> 2013, it was 4 years ago
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