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00:08:13 <Samu> uhm... okay, I concede 00:08:43 <Samu> it's not possible to balance trains by just putting running costs on wagons 00:08:51 <Samu> the vanilla trains 00:10:03 <Samu> but at least they would get running costs 00:10:49 <Samu> i might go on with the patch 00:11:09 <Samu> but give up on the intention to try to balance 00:26:19 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has quit IRC 01:07:51 *** Samu has quit IRC 01:13:53 *** markasoftware has joined #openttd 01:37:18 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 02:13:47 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 02:47:03 *** glx has quit IRC 02:52:39 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd 03:00:17 *** supermop_home has quit IRC 03:13:31 *** Eddi|zuHause2 has joined #openttd 03:15:50 *** Eddi|zuHause has quit IRC 03:31:12 *** DDR has joined #openttd 04:34:40 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 04:54:35 *** Montana_ has joined #openttd 05:08:27 *** Montana_ has quit IRC 05:08:50 *** Montana_ has joined #openttd 05:18:02 *** Supercheese has left #openttd 05:21:47 *** Montana__ has joined #openttd 05:21:59 *** Montana__ is now known as Montana 05:23:39 *** Montana has quit IRC 05:26:03 *** markasoftware has quit IRC 05:26:45 *** Montana has joined #openttd 05:28:21 *** Montana_ has quit IRC 05:31:53 *** Montana is now known as Montana_ 05:32:43 *** Montana_ is now known as Montana 05:51:07 *** Montana has quit IRC 06:23:51 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 06:28:04 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 06:28:58 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 06:56:47 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 07:10:44 *** efess has quit IRC 07:50:33 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 08:11:16 *** smoke_fumus has quit IRC 08:11:47 *** maciozo has joined #openttd 08:13:32 *** Sova has joined #openttd 08:20:15 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 08:40:10 *** Samu has joined #openttd 08:40:16 <Samu> hi 08:45:44 *** roidal has joined #openttd 08:50:01 *** TheMask96 has quit IRC 08:51:06 *** Arveen2 has quit IRC 08:54:16 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd 08:55:47 *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd 09:12:07 *** bwn has quit IRC 09:31:49 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 09:31:54 <Wolf01> o/ 09:37:10 <crem> \o 09:37:58 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 09:46:13 <Wolf01> Meh, some users in the forum are like my father, and I already would like to leave home... 10:31:41 *** Arveen has joined #openttd 10:35:12 <Samu> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=75982&p=1183536#p1183536 - just posted something explaining why running costs alone won't do it 10:35:25 <Samu> that might demotivate SimYouLater 10:35:59 <peter1138> NewGRFs. 10:36:04 <Wolf01> ^ 10:37:09 <Wolf01> Also, you can almost always make an addon for a grf which only changes some values if the newgrf values don't fit your needs 11:12:51 *** Sova has quit IRC 11:23:43 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 11:30:34 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 11:34:49 <Samu> Wolf01: running cost per wagon isn't possible if the wagons used are of varied length, or i don't see what you mean 11:37:55 <Samu> perhaps I see what u mean 11:38:51 <Samu> yeah, looks like it's possible, but it will be even harder to reach that piece of information 11:39:00 <Samu> click train 11:39:03 <Samu> click details 11:39:06 <Samu> click information 11:39:23 <Samu> and there, each wagon would have it's name, it's value and there would be it's running cost 11:39:54 <Samu> it's possible, just a bit harder to get to, though 11:40:55 *** roidal_ has joined #openttd 11:42:38 <Wolf01> It's far more easy than guessing the cost of the entire consist 11:43:16 <Wolf01> And calculating the cost of the consist from variables which mean nothing 11:43:45 <Wolf01> You can calculate the cost of a plywood based on its length, not the cost of a car based on its length 11:47:31 *** Sova has joined #openttd 11:47:45 *** roidal has quit IRC 11:59:56 *** bwn has joined #openttd 12:18:38 <Samu> uh oh... actually not as easy as I first thought 12:19:01 <Samu> it must retrieve the running cost from the vehicle itself, not the engine type 12:19:15 <Samu> even though they're the same, they're not the same 12:19:55 <Wolf01> Why, for the god of wolves sake, you are still trying to get a wagon running cost depending on the engine to which is attached? 12:20:59 <Samu> GetVehicleProperty 12:21:12 <Samu> this function really wants a running_cost_class 12:21:17 <Samu> which I don't have 12:22:52 <Samu> to display the running cost of a wagon that doesn't have a running_cost_class, that is on a vehicle, I really need to use GetVehicleProperty, instead of GetRunningCost 12:23:23 <Samu> I'm screwed 12:23:31 <Samu> unless I simulate a running_cost_class 12:23:43 <Samu> something i've been avoiding all this time 12:25:26 <Samu> let me look at engines.h 12:25:27 <Samu> brb 12:26:13 <Samu> INVALID_PRICE 12:26:16 <Samu> bah 12:26:30 <Samu> #define RC_S PR_RUNNING_TRAIN_STEAM 12:26:35 <Samu> #define RC_D PR_RUNNING_TRAIN_DIESEL 12:26:41 <Samu> #define RC_E PR_RUNNING_TRAIN_ELECTRIC 12:26:46 <Samu> #define RC_W INVALID_PRICE 12:26:51 <Samu> RC_W is for wagons 12:28:19 <Samu> if I create a PR_RUNNING_TRAIN_WAGON, i bet i'll be destroying all NewGRFs 12:28:22 *** bwn has quit IRC 12:28:50 <Samu> what would be the BasePrice 12:28:57 <Samu> heh... so screwed 12:36:49 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 12:37:25 <Wolf01> if (e->u.rail.running_cost_class == INVALID_PRICE) cost_factor = GetVehicleProperty(v, PROP_TRAIN_COST_FACTOR, e->u.rail.cost_factor) * something; 12:37:45 <peter1138> ini files 12:37:50 <peter1138> xmL! 12:41:38 <Wolf01> Also, you should calculate the running costs of a wagon when starting the game and caching them 12:42:39 <Samu> CAN'T CACHE THAT 12:42:41 <Samu> oops caps 12:42:51 <Samu> it must be retrieved from the vehicle itself 12:43:05 <Wolf01> Make it possible, don't whine 12:43:29 <Samu> a game doesn't start with vehicles already built 12:43:40 <Samu> it must look at "your" vehicle 12:43:43 <Wolf01> But the game starts with vehicle definitions 12:44:41 <Samu> nars, uses a different running cost for trains that are stopped 12:44:51 <Samu> the train must exist 12:44:55 <Samu> be in the map 12:45:03 <Wolf01> Wtf cares about nars, you are changing vanilla wagons 12:45:28 <Samu> yes, but i don't want to break other things 12:45:31 <Wolf01> If you break newgrf details it's your fault 12:48:08 <Wolf01> Also you want to add running costs to wagons? Go to engine.h line 400 and below 12:48:59 <Samu> i could do that, but then the cost would become a fixed value, no longer dependant on the engine 12:49:15 <Wolf01> Still with this bad idea... 12:49:45 <Wolf01> The cost must be fixed 12:52:52 <Samu> SetDParam(2, GetVehicleProperty(v, PROP_TRAIN_RUNNING_COST_FACTOR, v->GetEngine()->u.rail.running_cost)); 12:52:59 *** bwn has joined #openttd 12:53:08 <Samu> let's see what happens 12:54:06 <Wolf01> Sticks screwdriver in power plug: "let's see what happens" 12:54:39 *** supermop_ has quit IRC 12:54:56 <Samu> oopsie 12:55:07 <Samu> i need a GetPrice too 12:55:22 <Samu> that means, a cost_factor, oh boy, i think it's time to give up 12:55:39 <Wolf01> Look at what you need and do a plan 12:57:53 <Samu> SetDParam(2, GetPrice(v->GetEngine()->u.rail.running_" target="_blank">u.rail.running_cost_class, GetVehicleProperty(v, PROP_TRAIN_RUNNING_COST_FACTOR, v->GetEngine()->u.rail.running_" target="_blank">u.rail.running_cost), v->GetEngine()->GetGRF())); 12:58:00 <Samu> rip readability 12:58:35 <Wolf01> What if you add a prop for wagons? 12:59:26 <Samu> also wrong, i need something else over GetPrice, i am so bad 13:03:16 <Samu> GetDisplayRunningCost 13:03:25 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 13:03:56 <Samu> nevermind, i give up 13:05:38 *** supermop_home has joined #openttd 13:06:33 <Wolf01> I changed 4 lines of code and I have running costs 13:06:55 <Wolf01> http://imgur.com/a/Qmq3q 13:07:27 <Samu> Wolf01: the magician 13:07:46 <Wolf01> Maybe I even messed up grfs, but it works and it is consistent 13:09:08 <Samu> that wasn't where I was putting the running costs 13:09:18 <Samu> it was on vehicle detail / information tab 13:09:27 <Wolf01> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pvn1rcd5d 13:13:18 <Samu> heh, I really wonder what happens with a newgrf mixed up with that 13:13:26 <Samu> probably "bad stuff" 13:13:47 <Wolf01> Try 13:14:02 <Samu> ok. 13:16:31 <Wolf01> Meh, why 3 hours for a branch merge? 13:17:37 *** bwn has quit IRC 13:21:59 <Samu> Severity Code Description Project File Line Suppression State Error C2118 negative subscript openttd D:\OpenTTD\trunk\src\engine.cpp 67 13:22:05 <Samu> can't compile what u did 13:22:55 <Wolf01> Make a patch and compare, so you can see where the error is 13:24:56 <Samu> retrying 13:25:06 <Samu> brb 13:26:43 *** Snail has joined #openttd 13:27:36 <Samu> nop 13:27:39 <Samu> negative subscript 13:28:30 <Wolf01> With grfs? 13:29:44 <Samu> no, with compiling 13:30:28 <Wolf01> I think you missed something, like a comma or even an enum item 13:31:22 <Samu> no, i just copy pasted your diff 13:31:26 <Samu> then applied 13:31:29 <Samu> to trunk 13:31:33 <Samu> doesn't work 13:31:49 <Samu> assert_compile(lengthof(_price_base_specs) == PR_END); 13:31:55 <Samu> this is where it errors 13:32:32 <Wolf01> Then it didn't apply correctly, also I didn't made it against trunk, it was only to show you the changes 13:33:21 <Samu> Severity Code Description Project File Line Suppression State Error (active) the size of an array must be greater than zero openttd d:\OpenTTD\trunk\src\table\pricebase.h 85 13:33:24 *** efess has joined #openttd 13:33:25 <Samu> Severity Code Description Project File Line Suppression State Error C2118 negative subscript openttd d:\openttd\trunk\src\table\pricebase.h 85 13:37:23 <Samu> lengthof(_price_base_specs) == PR_END); 13:37:29 <Samu> i'm getting a 71 == 72 13:37:38 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 13:37:41 <Wolf01> It mean you miss a PR_DOMETHING 13:37:51 <Wolf01> s/D/S 13:38:07 <Wolf01> Or even more than 1 13:40:19 *** Snail has quit IRC 13:40:34 *** Snail has joined #openttd 13:41:15 *** Snail has joined #openttd 13:41:24 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 13:41:53 *** Snail has quit IRC 13:42:15 <Samu> ah, tortoise svn removed some line 13:42:18 <Samu> about ships 13:42:22 <Samu> damn tortoise 13:42:24 *** Snail has joined #openttd 13:43:11 *** Snail has joined #openttd 13:43:47 <Samu> i got it 13:43:53 <Samu> let's try again 13:43:57 *** Snail has joined #openttd 13:44:39 <Samu> ///< PR_RUNNING_SHIP {1000000, PCAT_CON.... was on the same line 13:44:48 *** Snail has joined #openttd 13:44:50 <Samu> dunno why tortoise patched it like that 13:45:05 *** Snail has quit IRC 13:45:09 <Samu> didn't register the end of line 13:45:45 *** Snail has joined #openttd 13:45:54 *** Snail has quit IRC 13:45:59 *** FR^2 has left #openttd 13:46:21 <Samu> it werks! 13:59:10 *** Sova has quit IRC 14:01:10 <Samu> intersting, nothing bad is happening 14:02:43 <Samu> any newgrf that happens to have invalid_price before, is now displaying a running cost 14:02:51 <Samu> £0 14:03:02 <Samu> which is... "okay" 14:05:04 <Samu> newgrfs had the option to display either £0 or just not displaying it at all 14:05:19 <Samu> not displaying it at all = INVALID_PRICE 14:05:48 <Samu> must investigate this further, b rb 14:09:24 *** Guest85 has quit IRC 14:11:25 *** phroa has joined #openttd 14:12:00 *** phroa is now known as Guest75 14:31:42 <supermop> yo 14:33:32 <Samu> i swear i've seen newgrfs with running costs of £0 being displayed before 14:33:35 <Samu> grr 14:54:42 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 15:05:21 *** JacobD88 has quit IRC 15:56:11 <Samu> is this good coding etiquete 15:56:22 <Samu> If (abc) do { 15:56:34 <Samu> code here 15:56:44 <Samu> } while (whtever); 15:59:20 <Samu> if (unc_len != 0) do { bla; } while(bleh); 16:07:18 <Wolf01> if (x) do {} while(); => while() {} 16:07:43 <Wolf01> *while(x && other while condition) 16:19:21 <Samu> got it 16:19:41 <Samu> also got a math problem 16:20:28 <Samu> 1000/4 = 250 16:20:53 <Samu> 250/4 = 62.5 16:21:08 <Samu> hmmm it's wrong that i divide it a second time 16:21:34 <Samu> trying to get the individual running cost of a wagon is tough 16:21:50 <Samu> in the vehicle detail information tab 16:21:55 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 16:22:07 <Samu> openttd doesn't do it 16:22:29 <Samu> it does for the entire train, but not for individual parts 16:22:43 <supermop> can't decide if i want to just make rough tram all brown dirt and not bother changing ground sprites 16:23:24 <supermop> rough tram is for andy things to drive on, so i'll wait to ask him 16:24:08 <supermop> how fast should a mine cart go? 16:24:11 <supermop> 100 mph? 16:28:17 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 16:30:28 *** bwn has joined #openttd 16:37:46 <Wolf01> <supermop> how fast should a mine cart go? <- google says 25kmh 16:38:22 <Wolf01> Minecraft ones go up 28.8kmh 16:39:44 *** yorick has joined #openttd 16:40:19 *** yorick has left #openttd 16:41:13 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd 16:45:37 *** supermop has quit IRC 16:48:11 <Samu> working with integer math is so limited 16:49:10 <Samu> @calc 75600 >> 15 16:49:10 <DorpsGek> Samu: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number. 16:49:32 *** Gja has joined #openttd 16:49:49 <Samu> 2 16:49:55 <Samu> rip decimals 16:53:16 *** TheMask96 has quit IRC 16:53:25 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 16:53:26 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 16:53:32 <Alberth> o/ 16:55:39 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 16:57:09 <Wolf01> o/ 16:57:53 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd 17:00:19 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 17:03:59 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 17:21:46 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 17:26:24 <Samu> BaseCosts Mod 5.0 cannot modify the running costs of wagons 17:27:41 <Samu> unless.... oh nevermind, it can 17:28:11 <Samu> if the wagons actually have a running cost class, it can 17:29:14 <Samu> i'm treating them as Steam 17:29:21 <Samu> PR_RUNNING_TRAIN_STEAM 17:30:30 <Wolf01> You should add PR_RUNNING_TRAIN_WAGON and support it on grfs 17:35:06 *** Samu has quit IRC 17:37:26 *** roidal has joined #openttd 17:37:37 *** orudge`_ has joined #openttd 17:38:23 *** sla_ro|master2 has joined #openttd 17:38:23 *** tycoondemon2 has joined #openttd 17:38:48 *** Cybert1nus has joined #openttd 17:39:18 *** Gumle2 has joined #openttd 17:40:16 *** Dackus has joined #openttd 17:40:37 *** heffer_ has joined #openttd 17:40:45 *** kais58_ has joined #openttd 17:41:08 *** Alberth has quit IRC 17:41:08 *** Gja has quit IRC 17:41:08 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 17:41:08 *** roidal_ has quit IRC 17:41:08 *** tycoondemon has quit IRC 17:41:08 *** Ammler has quit IRC 17:41:08 *** V453000 has quit IRC 17:41:08 *** mescalito has quit IRC 17:41:08 *** zwamkat has quit IRC 17:41:08 *** Xaroth has quit IRC 17:41:08 *** Cybertinus has quit IRC 17:41:08 *** orudge has quit IRC 17:41:08 *** kais58 has quit IRC 17:41:08 *** Dakkus has quit IRC 17:41:08 *** Sheogorath has quit IRC 17:41:08 *** heffer has quit IRC 17:41:08 *** Gumle2 is now known as Gja 17:42:03 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 17:42:03 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 17:42:03 *** roidal_ has joined #openttd 17:42:03 *** tycoondemon has joined #openttd 17:42:03 *** Ammler has joined #openttd 17:42:03 *** mescalito has joined #openttd 17:42:03 *** Xaroth has joined #openttd 17:42:03 *** kais58 has joined #openttd 17:42:03 *** Dakkus has joined #openttd 17:42:03 *** helix.oftc.net sets mode: +o Alberth 17:42:12 *** Sheogorath has joined #openttd 17:42:16 *** roidal_ has quit IRC 17:42:16 *** Ammler has quit IRC 17:42:16 *** Xaroth has quit IRC 17:42:16 *** Dakkus has quit IRC 17:42:19 *** kais58 has quit IRC 17:42:36 *** tycoondemon has quit IRC 17:42:56 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Alberth 17:43:11 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 17:43:11 *** zwamkat has joined #openttd 17:44:07 *** Ammler has joined #openttd 17:44:07 *** V453000 has joined #openttd 17:51:13 *** glx has joined #openttd 17:51:13 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 17:55:34 *** Progman has joined #openttd 17:58:03 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 18:00:42 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 18:04:45 <zuzak> Hi there, is there a way to mirror the content server locally? We're wanting to host a LAN party, but our network has a restrictive firewall 18:05:02 <zuzak> or can players download content from the game-server directly? 18:05:02 *** Samu has joined #openttd 18:05:07 <Samu> a 18:05:10 <Samu> unc_cost += GetPrice(PR_RUNNING_TRAIN_STEAM, cost_factor, e->GetGRF()) / _price[PR_RUNNING_TRAIN_STEAM]; 18:05:54 <Samu> there's so much code that seems redundant, but it actually matters, just to get a price 18:06:30 <Samu> i can now get the running cost of an individual wagon 18:07:04 <Samu> make it go through the newgrf filter, like nars do for stopped vehicles 18:07:48 <Samu> make it go through another one which is basecosts mod which can adjust running costs 18:08:39 <Samu> i got a value of 63000 going around 2 filters, only to return 63000 18:09:04 <Samu> newgrfs could change it, but at least I'm happy to keep this functionality 18:13:33 <Samu> there's still something not quite right, grrr 18:16:39 *** Montana has joined #openttd 18:18:14 <Alberth> zuzak: simplest is to download the required grfs beforehand, and distribute them locally 18:18:18 <Rubidium> zuzak: I assume that restrictive firewall also implies not being able to change the DNS resolution in the network, so making a mirror would be pointless. And no, the game servers will not serve the content 18:18:55 <Alberth> you can just drop the files into the right directory of openttd, and it will be found 18:18:57 <Rubidium> having said that, it's technically achievable with some effort 18:22:38 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 18:55:30 <Samu> hmm Wolf01, after checking out how NewGRFs are dealing with running costs for wagons right now, adding a PR_RUNNING_TRAIN_WAGON wouldn't work as one would expect 18:55:57 <Samu> they already set their wagons to one of the other 3 18:56:02 <Samu> diesel, steam or electric 18:56:44 <Samu> if then you change the cost multiplier on a hipotetically basecost mod that does support it, it wouldn't change the wagon running costs 19:06:10 <Wolf01> As I said before, leave existing grfs working as they do 19:06:32 <Wolf01> New grfs use the new feature 19:07:08 <Wolf01> If you need to change old grfs you make another grf which overrides their feature in the same exact way they did 19:07:46 <Wolf01> Maybe is even possible to change the class to "wagon" instead of the other 3 19:10:32 *** Ethereal_Whisper has quit IRC 19:10:42 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 19:29:56 *** Montana has quit IRC 19:30:58 *** Progman has quit IRC 19:32:12 *** Montana has joined #openttd 19:48:08 <Samu> im gonna need help 19:48:18 <Samu> how do i make a 2-pass function 19:48:20 <Wolf01> I need sleep 19:48:23 <Samu> t.t 19:48:38 <Samu> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/paxapdugj 19:48:41 <Samu> i got this 19:49:25 <Samu> lines 30 to 53 is the 2nd pass 19:49:51 <Samu> lines 14 to 28 is the 1st pass 19:50:22 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 19:52:26 <Wolf01> Quak 19:53:54 <Samu> as you see, i'm calculating the parts individually now 19:54:56 <Samu> for that, I need to know in advance the running cost of the parts that assigned a running cost (1st pass) 20:00:24 <frosch123> poor guy, mailing openttd.org about not being able to login to tt-forums.net using their nice.org credentials 20:00:41 <frosch123> hoi 20:07:30 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 20:07:58 <Alberth> o/ 20:10:58 <Samu> anyone can help me? 20:13:52 <supermop_> i can't find any good gpl NG tracks 20:14:42 <frosch123> did you not find any gpl ng tracks, or did yout not find and good ng tracks? 20:15:03 <frosch123> s/and/any/ 20:18:53 <supermop_> well no tram tracks that look what i want 20:19:07 <frosch123> one fish two fish red fish blue fish 20:19:40 <frosch123> weird that starcraft told me about english children's books 20:20:27 <supermop_> for ng i dont know any that look like what i want 20:21:52 <supermop_> tiny tracks that look like regular tracks 20:22:46 <Eddi|zuHause> is that the book which results in the craziest tongue twisters? 20:23:35 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop_: i think i usually used the tram/lightrail tracks grf 20:24:03 <supermop_> Eddi|zuHause: does it have ties/sleepers? 20:24:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i really don't remember 20:29:01 *** czaks has quit IRC 20:31:13 <frosch123> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=75992 <- please vote for a definitive result :) 20:35:17 <Samu> only 2 submissions? why not wait for more? 20:36:24 <SpComb> why does that post render super-wide on mobile 20:37:48 <supermop_> less than a month left to vote etc 20:38:23 <Wolf01> Uhm, I'm playing with unspooled, I find a bit interesting that you can build roads of different kind but not the stations/depots, but you can convert them after and still have access to all vehicles 20:38:39 <supermop_> huh 20:38:54 <supermop_> how do you mean 20:39:27 <Wolf01> I mean that my patch might not work at all 20:39:32 *** Keridos has joined #openttd 20:39:42 <supermop_> i don't intend any weird depot or station behavior 20:40:29 <Wolf01> http://imgur.com/a/AoZns 20:40:34 *** FR^2 has joined #openttd 20:41:06 *** Montana has quit IRC 20:41:35 <SpComb> wait, people still use pre-signals 20:41:43 <Wolf01> Seem so 20:42:20 <SpComb> also, what about tue 4k view :( 20:42:47 <supermop_> wait you can't build depots for each road type? 20:42:58 <Wolf01> Only for the first one 20:43:02 <frosch123> Wolf01: strings swapped in the grf? 20:44:08 <supermop_> now i am really confused 20:44:19 <Wolf01> I think it's the ICanHazInfrastructure() function I was working to 20:46:20 <Wolf01> But it should have disabled the toolbars too 20:47:23 <Wolf01> Also one should not be allowed to convert stations and depots to a roadtype which has no available vehicles, for consistency 20:47:40 <Wolf01> But then you can't make roadtypes without vehicles 20:48:52 <Wolf01> Branch needs a lot of work 20:49:22 <SpComb> someone should implement infrastructure sharing for 1.7, and then it woulf be totally awesome 20:50:13 <SpComb> I tried playing a solo game of OpenTTD... got boring after a 4h or so 20:50:14 <supermop_> SpComb: lot of work to fit into 30 days 20:52:31 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 20:53:56 <SpComb> spent over and hour fiddling around with NewGRFs and then played for a couple hours longer :( 20:56:07 <Wolf01> OTTD will get really boring if you don't have a plan 20:56:19 <SpComb> heh... do the modern patch-packs still include my silly Town Cargo Generation Factor patch 20:56:39 <supermop_> everytime i play i find something i want to change or add 20:56:50 <supermop_> so at least i am adding new things now 20:57:19 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 20:57:28 <andythenorth> o/ 20:58:08 <supermop_> termite seem to me the only one on devzone 20:58:22 <supermop_> for some reason i had thought pikka made some too 20:58:26 <SpComb> whaat, does JGR's patchpack actually include IS with a modern OpenTTD? 21:00:11 <supermop_> whenever i play an infrastructure sharing game, my company goes bankrupt 21:00:49 <supermop_> because i dont end up getting the delivery of any of the most profitable passengers 21:01:54 <SpComb> wow, and JGR's pp is against the latest svn head 21:02:15 <Alberth> o/ andy 21:03:20 *** czaks has joined #openttd 21:03:22 <andythenorth> JGR appears to be pretty clued in on actual development 21:03:24 <andythenorth> afaict 21:03:44 <planetmaker> o/ 21:03:54 <andythenorth> hi planetmaker 21:04:01 <andythenorth> Alberth also 21:04:15 <frosch123> hoi pm 21:04:26 <supermop_> planetmaker: would an articulated trolleybus or tram be against the spirit of ogfx+? 21:04:34 <frosch123> can you close https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=75752 , eventually people will post in both topics, and then it gets confusing 21:04:51 <frosch123> supermop_: ogfx+ has articulated buses 21:05:06 <frosch123> and trams 21:05:19 <frosch123> and trucks 21:05:22 <supermop_> surely it does not 21:06:09 <supermop_> hmm termite NG still 2x the size of tramtracks 21:07:28 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 21:08:10 <andythenorth> supermop_: termite NG needs redrawing 21:08:13 <andythenorth> it’s not NG enough 21:08:24 <supermop_> i shouldn't have spoken up 21:08:27 *** Alberth has left #openttd 21:08:27 * andythenorth too much to-do list 21:09:01 <frosch123> hmm, what did i confuse ogfx+rv with? 21:09:02 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 21:09:35 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 21:10:21 <supermop_> frosch123: egrvts? 21:12:44 <supermop_> andythenorth: for rough, slow mineral tramway, ballast? dirt? sleepers? 21:13:26 <Wolf01> o/ andy 21:13:32 *** czaks has quit IRC 21:16:01 <andythenorth> brown cinder dirt 21:16:05 <andythenorth> no sleepers 21:18:24 <supermop_> need 3 visually distinct, with best being a nice new light rail with concrete sleeper slab track 21:18:38 <supermop_> grass between the tracks 21:18:39 <supermop_> ? 21:21:22 <SpComb> how does JGR's infra sharing work with cargodist? can pax transfer between different companies? 21:22:43 <supermop_> SpComb: of course 21:23:28 <supermop_> but as with the infrastructure sharing patch in general there is no resolution to how to share payments 21:23:37 *** Montana has joined #openttd 21:23:47 <supermop_> so only the company making final delivery makes any money 21:24:16 <SpComb> last MP game we played ended up with me sending all the other players money so that they would keep playing and not give up or go bankrupt 21:24:28 *** czaks has joined #openttd 21:24:37 <supermop_> so certain types of large rail networks will always fail without manual transfers of money 21:24:57 <Wolf01> That's why you should be paid at any leg 21:25:37 <supermop_> there is no way to share the passenger fare, nor a way to set a contract for payment to use track or provide feeder service 21:26:22 <Wolf01> Mmmh, I'm making big money with 9 trucks 21:26:33 <supermop_> Wolf01: yeah, but whoever wrote the IS patch never implemented that or solved the free money for endless circular routes problem 21:27:05 <SpComb> some financial imbalances are fine when playing a peaceful co-op 21:27:40 <SpComb> as long as it's not completely broken... but not getting any transfer payments does sound a bit problematic 21:27:43 <supermop_> not really fine for vanilla trunk though 21:27:47 <Wolf01> Also endless circular routes are solvable by making the cargo following the cdist graph, if you don't follow it the payment drops towards 0 really fast 21:28:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not 100% sure cargodist actually manages to prevent cargo travelling in circles 21:28:52 <Eddi|zuHause> especially on congested networks you have weird effects 21:30:00 <SpComb> supermop_: well... that's a choice of how complete you want features to be before merging, vs taking something that works and fixing it up 21:30:22 <SpComb> ofc you do want to avoid fundamental desogn conflicts 21:31:18 <SpComb> need to give JGRs pp a try... cargodist + IS sounds like it would be an interesting multiplayer game 21:31:48 <SpComb> lets each company bootstrap itself, and then later interact in meaningful ways 21:31:52 <supermop_> Wolf01: if the only route from M to N goes "M, L, K, J ... C, B, A, Z, Y, X ... Q, P, O, N" 21:32:36 <supermop_> then cdist wont know that any route M->N direct exists, and will reward the path that goes to opposite ends of the earth 21:32:36 <Wolf01> If you take a year to deliver cargo, you won't get pais much 21:32:46 <Wolf01> *paid 21:33:04 <Wolf01> For other cases, airplanes 21:33:54 <supermop_> i think a solution exists, just haven't seen many explored in the IS discussion 21:34:16 <Wolf01> Also the total amount should be based both on leg station distance from destination and start-destination bird fly distance 21:34:57 <andythenorth> why is Infrastructure Sharing? 21:35:17 <supermop_> andythenorth: so we can have different colors 21:35:26 <andythenorth> it’s bollocks 21:35:38 <andythenorth> it was implemented in Railroad Tycoon 3, and it was bollocks there to 21:35:40 <andythenorth> too * 21:35:41 <Wolf01> Assign player different colors in the same coop company and you solve it 21:35:46 <supermop_> that's the only reason i can tell to use IS and not just co-op on the same company 21:35:50 * andythenorth hasn’t played IS game, so is talking out of his arse 21:36:01 <andythenorth> but it’s one of the ‘must must must have’ features that get mentioned 21:36:03 <supermop_> Wolf01: i would welcome patch for colors by groups etc 21:36:13 <andythenorth> I have never ever played a game where I wished for it 21:36:42 <SpComb> co-op isn't necessarily better... early game is very slow, and people have vastly differing styles for railways in particular 21:37:09 <supermop_> separate companies only makes sense if there is some gameplay angle for money differences between companies 21:37:54 <andythenorth> still, trackage rights are super-realism, eh :P 21:37:57 <supermop_> so unless IS addresses that there is not really a gameplay reason to use IS instead of coop 21:37:57 <Wolf01> More I play with unspooled, more I want to add new flags to roadtypes 21:38:14 <supermop_> Wolf01: thats the idea of making a proof of concept grf 21:38:23 <supermop_> to see how the concept we have actually works 21:38:25 <Wolf01> frosch123 will kill me :D 21:39:08 <andythenorth> does L33-35 resolve to a simpler sum? http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/src/templates/produce_secondary.pypnml#L33 21:39:27 <andythenorth> it’s all over the same divisor? 21:40:02 <andythenorth> maths such :P 21:40:05 <supermop_> i immediately found myself wanting custom sidewalks per roadtype 21:40:46 <Wolf01> Btw, current ponies: tramway which doesn't allow road at all, tramway which only allows road crossing and not same roadbits, priority for vehicle merging on intersections (for different roadtypes) 21:41:35 <Wolf01> The last one is useful when you have a caterpillar trying to merge just before your shiny new 150kph bus 21:43:21 <supermop_> haha 21:43:46 <supermop_> id say road which allows no tramway is also important for highway 21:44:00 <Samu> what does this mean? Converts a const Vehicle to const SpecializedVehicle with type checking. 21:44:09 <supermop_> no idea 21:44:18 <Samu> return (const T *)v; 21:44:27 <Samu> what is a SpecializedVehicle? 21:44:29 <__ln__> eww, explicit cast 21:44:55 <Samu> okay, i better expose my issue 21:45:02 <supermop_> also modify TE by roadtype? 21:45:23 <Samu> i got a train that consists of an engine and a wagon 21:45:26 <Wolf01> Also a flag to forbit towns to grow some roadtypes, you don't want plenty of intersections in the highway passing through a city 21:45:36 <supermop_> regular RV has worse TE on dirt, 4wd RV has less worse TE 21:46:14 *** sla_ro|master2 has quit IRC 21:46:16 <Wolf01> And a bit of blending through roadtypes, if possible 21:47:07 <supermop_> i guess RV sets can be hardcoded to switch TE based on current roadtype 21:47:35 <Samu> i want to retrieve the running cost of each individual part of the consist 21:47:37 <supermop_> but a roadtype flag for traction coefficient would be more universal 21:47:49 <Samu> but I'm not sure how to do it 21:47:58 <supermop_> default at 1, can set to 0.1 - 1.0 21:48:21 <Samu> want to retrieve it in real-time, to get the current value 21:48:48 <Wolf01> GetPrice(...)? 21:48:56 <supermop_> then RV can have a flag to reduce the effect of this if they are tracked or 4wd or whatever 21:48:59 <Samu> no, bah i'm not making myself clear 21:49:17 <Wolf01> Nice idea supermop_ 21:49:42 <Wolf01> Caterpillars should have max TE no matter the roadtype 21:49:43 <supermop_> then my subaru imprezas can still run fast on dirt while bus and trucks struggle 21:50:29 <Samu> i wanna display under vehicle details, info tab, the running cost, for each individual part of the train 21:50:33 <supermop_> maybe can abuse so cable hauled trams or funiculars then have 1/0 TE 21:50:53 <supermop_> as they never need to worry about wheel traction 21:51:40 <Wolf01> Meh, 6 years and 12 trucks I can already repay the loan 21:51:54 <supermop_> Wolf01: dirt too cheap? 21:52:03 <Wolf01> Nah 21:52:09 <Wolf01> Maybe too fast 21:52:32 <supermop_> hmm 21:52:34 <Samu> when listing each part, it appears that the wagons have been detached from all other parts, it's no longer part of a consist, it's only self 21:53:06 <supermop_> id like to allow at least certain vehicles to go sort of fast on dirt, but maybe now it is too similar to gravel 21:53:45 <Wolf01> Also early vehicles are too slow to get malus from travelling on dirt/gravel 21:54:09 <supermop_> i envisioned players would only really build dirt in 1700s with horse wagons, and that most would use gravel for their cheap roads in modern era 21:54:11 <Wolf01> Nerf them a bit, like 30 and 45 21:54:19 <supermop_> Wolf01: makes sense 21:54:42 <Samu> I'm too slow today, it's hard to explain 21:54:43 <Samu> sorry 21:55:21 <supermop_> there is no way to really model the other malus effects of unpaved road, like hazard in wet weather, wear and tear on vehicle 21:55:23 <Wolf01> I started in 1950, I also built an asphalt road between cities, but I connected all the factories with dirt 21:55:42 <supermop_> highway too expensive? 21:55:52 <Wolf01> No, no need to 21:55:56 <Wolf01> I'll build it late 21:56:01 <Wolf01> *later 21:56:22 <supermop_> also cannot model that dirt is cheap to maintain if only light vehicles drive on it 21:56:41 <supermop_> as tno way to count how many tons pass over road bit per year 21:57:27 <Wolf01> That old rusty track patch could have been really useful hjere 21:57:39 <supermop_> could set RVs to have higher running cost on dirt, but that needs every grf to have same idea of what is dirt 21:58:09 <supermop_> other idea: buses cannot go on dirt at all, but same problem as above? 21:58:42 <supermop_> eg make dirt more like off-road 22:02:35 <andythenorth> I find I edit out a lot of my ideas 22:02:47 <andythenorth> :) 22:03:12 <Wolf01> Ha, added a single tram now, income has boosted 22:03:20 * andythenorth bed 22:03:21 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 22:04:13 <supermop_> on rough tramway? 22:04:32 <Wolf01> No, basic electric tramway 22:05:07 <supermop_> hmm should make that more expensive 22:05:25 <supermop_> also come up with a better name for it 22:05:38 <Wolf01> I think a way to partially solve the problem of roads which don't allow crossing is to introduce vehicle waypoints in the same fashion of toll points, the highway ends at waypoints which have a nice graphic and you continue with road 22:06:52 <Wolf01> Too bad OTTD lets you manage every aspect of the transport with the same company, you can't pay yourself :P 22:07:49 <Wolf01> I think infra-sharing was bor for this, one will focus on infrastructure, others on vehicles 22:07:56 <Wolf01> *born 22:08:35 <zuzak> hm, is there a way to make the show-reserved-paths-of-trains more visible? the black's hard to see. but I figure someone would've made it by now, and I can't find anything on the content server 22:09:11 <supermop_> zuzak: not that i know of 22:09:31 <supermop_> i think it is something that newgrf can change 22:21:14 *** orudge has joined #openttd 22:21:14 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge 22:21:58 <supermop_> drawing tram sleepers 22:25:03 *** orudge` has quit IRC 22:25:40 <Wolf01> Another thing I just stumbled on, the possibility to disable some bridges for a roadtype 22:26:28 <Wolf01> It would need some mapping 22:27:09 <Wolf01> Or we just let it as is and is player choice to not build highway with wooden bridges 22:27:43 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 22:31:09 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 22:37:32 <Samu> HALP! http://imgur.com/a/sMiR8 22:38:10 <Samu> i'm trying to display running cost per piece, but uh... it's doing something weird 22:45:56 *** czaks has quit IRC 22:51:09 *** roidal has quit IRC 22:52:00 *** gelignite has quit IRC 22:53:44 <supermop_> Wolf01: id rather have different bridge types for different types 22:54:04 <supermop_> in the spirit of the TTO monorail 22:54:21 <Wolf01> Even better 22:54:42 <supermop_> even if it is still a global limit of 15 22:54:44 *** czaks has joined #openttd 22:56:08 <supermop_> other or additionally: a same bridge type has different sprites based on type 22:56:35 <Wolf01> Still the problem of wooden highway :P 22:56:41 <supermop_> wood train bridge and wood road bridge might look different 22:57:01 <supermop_> flag to disable wood would be helpful 22:57:35 <supermop_> adding ties: 22:57:37 <supermop_> http://imgur.com/a/0fmbk 22:58:56 <supermop_> they don't show up on the brown dirt tho 22:59:20 <Wolf01> Better than nothing 23:00:41 <supermop_> so maybe rough gets brown dirt, basic gets wood ties on gravel, and modern gets concrete ties 23:00:46 <supermop_> brb 23:05:37 *** supermop_home has quit IRC 23:08:21 <Samu> http://i.imgur.com/tpgrEBS.png 23:08:24 <Samu> HALP 23:09:12 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 23:10:26 <Samu> i got a terrible programming issue 23:10:52 <Supercheese> Is that a terrible issue with programming, or an issue with terrible programming? ;) 23:11:03 <Samu> probably both 23:11:08 <Supercheese> Heh 23:12:45 <Samu> the way openttd processes the code 23:13:25 <Samu> it first gets the engine at the front, sends it to the GetRunningCost and comes up with the result 23:13:50 <Samu> then gets the next unit after the front, and discards the first one 23:14:02 <Samu> now it's a 3-unit train 23:14:17 <Samu> sends it to the GetRunningCost and comes up with the result 23:14:40 <Samu> then repeat, 2-unit train, sent to runningcost, 1-unit, running cost 23:15:05 <Samu> so basically, there's 4 trains 23:15:18 <Samu> I dunno how to solve this 23:24:52 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd 23:27:18 <Wolf01> Samu https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/ao1eg8x_460sv.mp4 23:30:02 <Samu> .. 23:30:06 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 23:37:32 <Samu> hmm I think i understand what's going on 23:37:50 *** supermop has joined #openttd 23:53:19 <Samu> GetCargoSummaryOfArticulatedVehicle 23:53:32 <Samu> I need something similar to this, but for RunningCost 23:54:06 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd