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00:01:21 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 00:04:47 *** Progman has quit IRC 00:09:11 *** supermop_ has quit IRC 00:17:20 <Wolf01> Ha! Just purchased train valley (2€) it's cool, and I think it's exploitable to make huge profits there too 00:23:48 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 00:29:11 *** supermop has joined #openttd 00:37:26 *** Samu has quit IRC 00:54:17 <Wolf01> 'night 00:54:20 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 01:11:47 *** Samu has joined #openttd 01:27:55 *** Samu has quit IRC 03:23:59 *** ATS64 has joined #openttd 03:31:04 *** taco has quit IRC 03:37:18 *** glx has quit IRC 04:07:04 *** Snail has quit IRC 04:40:09 *** blu has joined #openttd 04:43:50 *** blu has quit IRC 05:04:02 *** DDR has quit IRC 05:23:11 *** markasoftware has joined #openttd 05:31:07 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd 05:32:17 *** markasoftware has quit IRC 05:33:42 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 05:36:14 *** supermop__ has quit IRC 05:40:36 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 06:13:00 *** Montana has quit IRC 06:27:09 *** smoke_fumus has joined #openttd 06:43:50 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 06:43:50 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 06:43:56 <Alberth> moin 06:52:18 *** smoke_fumus has quit IRC 07:12:01 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 07:37:35 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 07:37:35 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 07:42:28 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:44:39 *** tokai has quit IRC 07:50:55 <Alberth> o/ 07:51:17 <Alberth> I am far from happy with makefile 07:51:35 <Alberth> considering rewrite to python 07:51:59 <Alberth> it's all a simple sequential set of steps any way 07:52:10 <Alberth> andythenorth: ^ 07:56:52 <andythenorth> hi hi 07:57:08 <andythenorth> Alberth: I have considered abandoning make before :) 07:57:13 <andythenorth> it would be one less dep 07:57:31 <andythenorth> but…I did some reading about people who have tried to replace make with python :P 07:57:53 <andythenorth> seems it only works if you absolutely know what you doing :) 07:57:54 <Alberth> in the general case? yes, don't gothere 07:58:24 *** roidal has joined #openttd 07:58:43 <Alberth> but I don't want to solve the general case 07:58:48 <andythenorth> I am actually +1 to keeping make, we have gradually started using on it our work python projects 07:58:56 <andythenorth> as a wrapper to buildout, setuptools etc 07:59:13 <andythenorth> but they’re pretty simple makefiles 07:59:40 <Alberth> newgrf makefile isn't simple 08:00:14 <Alberth> it handles a lot of stuff with text, which is really not something you should do in a shell 08:00:24 <andythenorth> yes 08:00:59 <Alberth> likely it makes sense to keep a wrapper Makefile 08:01:09 <andythenorth> here’s an example https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pu93ocyjb 08:01:39 <Alberth> :) 08:01:53 <andythenorth> we use it, not so much for the powers of make, but because it reduces ‘this is weird python shit’ for new people 08:02:05 <Alberth> as a simple interface 08:02:05 <andythenorth> and it exposes current python devs to the idea of working in standard GNU ways 08:02:08 <Alberth> that works 08:02:43 <andythenorth> ok :) 08:02:58 <Alberth> so perhaps a bunch of python scripts glued with make? 08:03:02 <andythenorth> yes 08:03:09 <andythenorth> it pretty much is that 08:03:28 <andythenorth> e.g. I can get the docs with python src/render_docs.py 08:03:29 <andythenorth> and so on 08:03:34 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 08:03:42 <Alberth> could move all the text handling away from the shell etc 08:03:43 <andythenorth> the compile is modular, with a python script for each concern 08:04:22 <Alberth> don't know "all", but at least the complicated ones 08:04:56 <andythenorth> ah, src/build_iron_horse.py still exists 08:05:09 <andythenorth> and the makefile calls it 08:05:23 <andythenorth> so there is one entry point script handling the entire python compile 08:05:35 <Alberth> I didn't see any source file lists 08:05:38 <andythenorth> no 08:05:43 <andythenorth> there’s nothing calculating deps 08:06:04 <andythenorth> I always wanted to eliminate the ‘build_iron_horse’, ‘build_road_hog’ etc scripts and move that into the makefile 08:06:15 <andythenorth> but eh, too complicated :) 08:06:23 <Alberth> likely 08:06:33 * andythenorth checks FIRS 08:06:40 <Alberth> though such scripts have a common pattern too, I guess 08:07:00 <andythenorth> FIRS doesn’t have a ‘build_firs.py’ 08:07:14 <andythenorth> it is handled (correctly imho) by the makefile 08:12:33 <Alberth> looks like it indeed 08:14:47 <andythenorth> I don’t know how reliable the dep-checking is in the FIRS example 08:15:20 <andythenorth> it would almost be easier to just check src/*.py recursively 08:15:41 <andythenorth> maintaining dep lists will always slip my mind 08:16:03 <Alberth> firs has no dep checking, by the looks of it 08:17:18 <Alberth> nml target depends on $(GENERATE_PNML), which points to "nml:" two lines up, which has no deps 08:17:37 <Alberth> euhm "pnml:" two lines up 08:18:18 <andythenorth> in Makefile.in? 08:18:23 <andythenorth> o_O 08:18:28 <Alberth> makeifle 08:18:30 <Alberth> Makefile 08:18:52 <andythenorth> ah yes, the Makefile is vanilla, doesn’t understand firs deps 08:20:24 <Alberth> I really fail to understand why you need 3 pieces of Makefile :p 08:21:13 <andythenorth> well 08:21:17 <andythenorth> I could try and explain 08:21:22 <andythenorth> but that would require me to understand :) 08:21:44 <andythenorth> theory is that Makefile is vendored-in, never edit 08:22:02 <andythenorth> Makefile.config is of course, configuration against standard configuration points 08:22:14 <andythenorth> and Makefile.in is how you break the standard Makefile because it doesn’t do what’s needed :) 08:22:21 <andythenorth> Makefile.local I eliminated :P 08:23:03 <Alberth> for me, "*.in" is a template file for autotools :p 08:23:20 <Alberth> ie ./configure and friends 08:25:59 <andythenorth> I see :) 08:26:16 <andythenorth> for me it’s a template for python paste 08:26:43 <andythenorth> probably pm took that pattern from autotools :) 08:26:44 <Alberth> at least we agree on it being a template :p 08:27:41 <Alberth> with a twist in meaning, as autotools makes a full copy, while doing a few replacements 08:28:02 <andythenorth> that’s what paste does afaict 08:28:03 <Alberth> I have pondered adding a ./configure-like solution 08:28:30 <Alberth> but it doesn't have enough things to configure, I think 08:28:53 <andythenorth> nah 08:30:08 <andythenorth> even the location for ‘install’ target is standardised 08:30:28 *** Ethereal_Whisper has joined #openttd 08:30:45 <andythenorth> and there’s nothing platform-specific or environment-specific in my code 08:33:07 <Alberth> :O CP_FLAGS ?= $(shell [ "$(OSTYPE)" = "Darwin" ] && echo "-rfX" || echo "-rf") 08:33:19 <Alberth> :) 08:33:50 <Alberth> but indeed, hardly worth the effort 08:33:53 <andythenorth> magic :) 08:34:28 <Alberth> imho it's total bollocks to use a shell for text selection 08:35:20 <andythenorth> every problem is a nut 08:35:47 <andythenorth> oh nail, not nut 08:35:55 <andythenorth> mixing my sayings :P 08:35:57 <Alberth> I can see why ./configure uses m4 :) 08:36:03 <andythenorth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_the_instrument 08:36:49 <Alberth> ha, I know the phrase, didn't know it had a name as well :) 08:37:30 *** Progman has joined #openttd 08:41:23 <Alberth> yesterday frosch pointed out the newer way to assign version numbers to builds, do you want to switch to that? 08:41:48 <Alberth> (20:31:12) frosch123: https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/entry/Makefile#L198 08:52:11 *** Arveen2 has joined #openttd 08:55:14 <andythenorth> I don’t actually find it useful 08:55:41 <andythenorth> it’s preferable to just have ‘revM’ 08:58:55 *** Arveen has quit IRC 08:59:16 <Alberth> ok 09:01:41 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 09:35:54 *** Samu has joined #openttd 09:35:59 <Samu> sup 09:36:31 <Supercheese> Kerbal is up 09:40:17 <andythenorth> Kerbal Train Programme 09:41:04 <Supercheese> Kerbal Monorail Program: https://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/5quxdg/the_island_strip_express_a_34_kilometer_long 09:42:50 <Supercheese> also Kerbal zellepins 09:43:15 <Supercheese> Moar zellepins 09:51:06 <andythenorth> monorail is really quite epic 09:52:35 <Supercheese> Indeed, he did an amazing job 09:55:31 <Alberth> ? 09:57:52 <andythenorth> KSP video 09:57:56 <Supercheese> the fellow who did ... yes that 09:59:13 <Alberth> yes, but I fail to see "epic" 09:59:32 <andythenorth> nice music, nice pictures 09:59:39 <Alberth> long stretch of pipe, strap an engine to it 09:59:47 <andythenorth> also, when I tried KSP, I couldn’t get the rocket to stay assembled on a launch pad 09:59:48 <andythenorth> :P 09:59:55 <Alberth> :) 09:59:59 <andythenorth> everything in KSP falls apart all the time :P 10:00:12 <Alberth> oh, ok, fair enough then :) 10:00:13 <Supercheese> more struts 10:00:49 <Alberth> Kerbal Struts Program :p 10:00:53 <Supercheese> More boosters 10:01:06 <Alberth> nah, no B in KSP 10:01:50 <Alberth> maybe for v2: Boosted Kerbal Struts Program 10:04:07 *** Progman has quit IRC 10:05:19 <Supercheese> KSP 2: Electric Boosteloo 10:15:29 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 10:17:21 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 10:17:30 <Wolf01> Moin 10:18:01 <Alberth> o/ 10:23:03 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 10:23:43 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 10:30:16 <Samu> question, what does it take to implement a patch into vanilla openttd? 10:30:44 <Samu> is the aircraft type a good patch? 10:31:03 <Samu> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=75978#p1183432 10:36:09 <Samu> isn't displaying aircraft type info a good idea? 10:39:09 <__ln__> what does it matter to the average player? 10:40:33 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 10:40:36 <andythenorth> I find it annoying that I don’t know which planes are large and which are small 10:40:47 <andythenorth> maybe I should disable crashes :P 10:40:53 <andythenorth> or fork AV9 and make them all small :P 10:43:09 <andythenorth> biab 10:44:07 <Samu> helps them distinguish a small plane from a large plane 10:44:27 <Alberth> it would really help if you also note what to look at in your screen shots 10:44:44 <Alberth> now it's just a random shot that looks like vanilla openttd 10:45:00 <Alberth> I don't remember exactly what each window shows 10:45:08 <Samu> there's planes that look alike 10:45:08 <Alberth> so I can't see any difference 10:45:27 <Samu> oh, i wanted unadultered shots, but i see it would help 10:46:11 <__ln__> did you mean: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/adultery 10:46:13 <Alberth> "unaltered" means "not changed", "adult" means "grown up", no idea what unadultered is :) 10:46:36 <Alberth> lol 10:46:44 <Samu> unaltered... 10:47:00 <Samu> sorry, portuguese got in the way lol 10:47:53 <Alberth> np 10:48:18 <Samu> https://translate.google.com/#pt/en/adulterado 10:48:57 <Samu> unadulterated I guess 10:49:47 <Alberth> I can see the English side being broken, no idea what the Spanish side says :) 10:50:07 <Alberth> or apparently, Portugese 10:50:28 <Samu> unadulterated = not mixed or diluted with any different or extra elements; complete and absolute. 10:52:53 <Samu> there are planes that are small and large while they look alike 10:53:27 <Samu> also there's newgrfs that may actually display this information, but there was no sort by to group the all together 10:53:41 <Samu> i think it's helpful 10:54:27 <Samu> group them* all together - typo 10:54:53 <Samu> also helpful when engine preview window comes up 10:55:21 <Samu> it will display it there too, helps for a better planning 10:57:59 <Samu> the placed I couldn't get it to sort by was on the company list of aircraft 10:58:26 <Samu> or aircrafts going into a station 10:58:36 <Samu> anything that is referring to company owned stuff 10:59:23 <Samu> it'd be helpful there too, but the sorters over there are englobing all vehicle types 11:00:04 <Samu> it would require an universal "Sort by Type" sorter, and i'm not sure how to go about that 11:00:15 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: maybe you should patch the game so it tells you the expected runway length in the vehicle stats? 11:02:04 <Samu> i have a feeling Eddi|zuHause can't read what I'm typing 11:02:18 <Alberth> :) 11:03:45 <Wolf01> Lol 11:12:31 <Samu> Alberth: lhttp://imgur.com/a/no6xY - :o 11:12:38 <Samu> Alberth: http://imgur.com/a/no6xY - :o 11:13:15 <Samu> and im missing the engine preview offer window, not easy to have it trigger 11:13:58 <Samu> Eddi|zuHause: http://imgur.com/a/no6xY 11:16:02 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 11:27:33 <Alberth> looks nice 11:27:48 <Alberth> bit busy at the moment, I'll check the patch later 11:29:54 <Samu> oh nice, thx 11:46:04 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 12:00:59 <Alberth> looks ok, at first sight 12:01:40 <Alberth> adding the sort type should be done separately from adding to the display 12:02:06 <Alberth> and I don't like the very long string names 12:02:35 <Alberth> latter probably requires a rename operation on the strings 12:02:48 <Alberth> which then also affects all translations 12:02:54 <Alberth> ie not nice to do 12:03:39 <Alberth> if you go that way, renaming of the strings should be separate from adding new strings 12:05:06 <Alberth> you also checked how it looks if you do have a range on the aircraft? 12:09:09 <Samu> which one? 12:09:17 <Samu> ah, wait, let me open it up 12:10:14 <Samu> "adding the sort type should be done separately" what does this mean 12:10:51 <Samu> which line is it? on the patch 12:13:32 <Alberth> your patch both adds display of the aircraft type, and the sorting on the type 12:13:46 <Alberth> in trunk one thing gets changed in one commit 12:14:04 <Alberth> so in trunk we have one commit for adding the display 12:14:14 <Samu> ah i get what you mean 12:14:19 <Samu> make it into 2 patches 12:14:19 <Alberth> and one commit for adding the new sort type 12:14:29 <Alberth> indeed 12:14:54 <Samu> i guess i can do that 12:16:47 <Samu> about the very long string names... i'm not sure what i can do there 12:17:31 <Alberth> the current naming convention fails, so it needs new names in some way 12:17:51 <Samu> yes, but that is not my fault :( 12:18:02 <Alberth> it's nobody falt 12:18:05 <Alberth> *fault 12:18:30 <Alberth> things get extended a few times, and at some point you need to re-organize 12:19:18 <Alberth> changes in string names are not fun to do manually 12:19:48 <Alberth> you need some 'sed' wizardry to make it managable 12:20:05 <Alberth> so first split the patch, perhaps think of a better string name 12:20:17 <andythenorth> string fixing always looks like a python nail to me :P 12:20:42 <Alberth> nah, it's plain name substitution 12:21:25 *** Flygon has quit IRC 12:21:29 <Alberth> sed -i -e 's/OLD_NAME/NEW_NAME/' src/lang/*.txt src/lang/unfinished/*.txt 12:21:42 <Alberth> and then a change in the source code 12:21:46 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 12:22:38 <Samu> i have to google what "sed" is 12:22:47 <Samu> so you prefer a string rename 12:22:50 <Samu> over adding new strings 12:22:58 <Alberth> no 12:23:16 <Alberth> you definitely need new strings 12:23:49 <Alberth> but old names and new names must use the same convention in naming 12:24:11 <Alberth> so if you change convention, all strings that use it, must change as well 12:24:52 <Alberth> so you add new strings with a new convention in the name 12:25:02 <Samu> ah, because of translations 12:25:04 <Alberth> then you must also rename all the remaining strings 12:25:33 <Alberth> yes, translators must find the new string to translate 12:25:57 <Alberth> and you rename to keep it clear that the set of strings belongs to each other 12:26:02 <Samu> patching strings in the translation files to adapt them into a new convention 12:27:06 <Alberth> that's what the 'sed' line does indeed, else all translators have to re-translate the exact same text, but with a different string name 12:28:50 <Samu> avoid giving work to translators, by re-using what they have already translated 12:28:57 <Samu> interesting 12:29:16 <Samu> re-use what's done, adapt it to new convention 12:29:24 <Alberth> yep 12:29:56 <Samu> i could try patching all languages manually, since I have no idea if there's a 'sed' equivalent on windows 12:30:57 <Alberth> it's over 40 files 12:31:06 <Wolf01> https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/anbMPbo_460sv.mp4 we need this 12:31:59 <Alberth> just invent a better way to name the strings, 'sed' is going to be so awful much quicker and accurate, don't bother trying to do that manually, I can do it in a few minutes 12:33:04 <Alberth> Wolf01: it's possible in reality, I always wondered what would happen if you'd try that 12:43:10 <Wolf01> Mmmmh, I need to glue some polyethylene... 12:43:50 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 12:46:13 <Samu> "you also checked how it looks if you do have a range on the aircraft?" yes 12:49:37 <Alberth> great 12:49:39 <Alberth> hola 12:50:46 <frosch123> moi 12:53:25 <Wolf01> Quak 13:03:43 *** eekee has joined #openttd 13:07:06 <Alberth> andythenorth: do you have a template fill program? 13:07:07 <Alberth> like "fill-template blah.template name=foo revision=r101 > blah.txt" or so? 13:29:53 *** Defaultti has quit IRC 13:31:05 *** Defaultti has joined #openttd 13:36:46 *** eekee has quit IRC 13:36:59 *** eekee has joined #openttd 13:38:18 *** eekee has quit IRC 13:38:30 *** eekee has joined #openttd 13:42:20 <Wolf01> andythenorth http://rebrickable.com/mocs/MOC-7069/IponSK/z-cube-casse-tete-5x5x5-brain-teaser/ I just copied this :P 13:50:00 <supermop> good morning 13:50:15 <Wolf01> o/ 13:50:29 <supermop> more work to be done 13:50:55 <supermop> pylons too wide for bridges - even with the modern catenary 13:51:33 <supermop> but it seems that bridge truss gets drawn before front pylons 13:51:47 <supermop> so they will always stick out 13:52:11 <supermop> solution is to omit pylons on bridge deck 13:52:49 <supermop> but never know if a bridge will have tall sides or not 13:53:53 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 13:54:06 <supermop> nuclear option: unspooled replaces all bridges with new ones that look better with pylons 13:55:59 <Wolf01> And what if we try to fix that in the code? 13:56:14 <Wolf01> How many things we'll break? 13:57:30 <eekee> why can't the graphic parts be made to fit together? 13:59:01 <Wolf01> Because one can use a roadset and a bridgeset from different authors which have different tastes 13:59:17 <Wolf01> Like pineapple on pizza 14:00:23 * eekee thinks about this 14:00:52 <supermop> eekee: my current, non-nuclear option is to try to revise graphics to look better with default bridges 14:01:46 <supermop> but as wolf said, there is no guarantee that will look good with all default bridges, let alone other bridges provided by other newgrfs 14:01:48 <eekee> makes sense -- so... the roads themselves have pylons which aren't separate pieces like street lamps or trees? 14:02:14 <supermop> the are separate, but they are always drawn 14:02:32 <supermop> you can have bridge pylons different from regular road 14:02:41 <supermop> but they are the same for all bridges 14:02:42 <eekee> there ought to be a way to disable drawing them on bridges, surely 14:03:19 <eekee> i'm having trouble imagining a bridge with pylons; never seen one irl :) 14:03:29 <supermop> I can disable they for all bridges, but that will look stupid on some bridges that do not have an overhead structure 14:03:44 <supermop> as then the wire will just float 14:04:35 <eekee> are these for trams? 14:04:45 <supermop> trams and trolleybuses 14:04:58 <eekee> ah, i wasn't thinking 14:05:27 <supermop> if you imagine the tubular bridge - sure would look weird with pylons 14:05:48 <eekee> i always play with ctrl-8 -- hide the pylons & wires :) 14:06:34 <supermop> but imagine the cheap girder bridge with the arched grey trusses - would certainly need pylons 14:06:39 <eekee> i use a grf to make narrow pylons and i still find i have to hide them because they confuse my eyes 14:06:46 <eekee> yeah 14:07:23 <supermop> eekee: fair enough but at some point you may want to tell whether a road can run a trolleybus or not 14:07:44 <eekee> i guess so. i've never used a trolleybus grf 14:09:07 <supermop> I actually started this grf to make the wires less bold - like this: 14:09:08 <supermop> http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/3/7/7/5377.1381534582.jpg 14:10:04 <eekee> ah aye :) 14:10:13 <supermop> where the wires are held by other wires, connected to poles at the far edge of the road 14:10:23 <supermop> (I used to live on that tram line) 14:10:33 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 14:10:57 <eekee> ah yes. i won't know until i try it if it'll be any good for my eyes 14:11:25 <supermop> I suceeded in making the wire overhead a bit less noticeable, but at the expense of adding many more poles, especially in curves 14:13:12 <eekee> ohhh 14:13:20 <eekee> it's the poles that bother me :) 14:13:58 <eekee> i think i could stand a pole every other square 14:14:00 <supermop> if you want to help me out with some feedback, try this: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=75637 14:14:17 <eekee> ty... 14:14:24 <supermop> then try this: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=75963 14:14:47 <supermop> then this: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=75986 14:15:17 <supermop> that will let you play with different road types, trolleybuses, and my roadtype grf which is a wip 14:15:29 <eekee> ugh, can't read today :) 14:16:53 <supermop> Wolf01: highways need to look fancier, or asphalt roads need to look worse? 14:17:41 <Wolf01> Usually highways have barriers here, the problem is that you can't simulate them having 2-3-4 lanes 14:18:02 <supermop> it's not a 'motorway' or interstate 14:18:26 <supermop> its more like a US route X Highway or britsh A-road 14:19:26 <supermop> or a US state highway 14:20:01 <supermop> divided motorways are beyond the scope of this set, because as you say there isn't really a way to make them yet 14:20:43 <supermop> maybe to non native English speakers highway always means 4-8 lane motorway 14:20:51 <eekee> if i was going to ask for more realistic roads, i'd first ask for a building scale change. i'm about 90% sure several of the default buildings were originally meant to be 2x2 :) 14:21:19 <supermop> but here and in England at least it can also mean the purpose built intercity roads in general 14:21:55 <supermop> eekee: scale had no real meaning in 1994 - just a couple of guys wanted to make a fun game 14:22:06 <eekee> yeah :) 14:22:12 <supermop> and we've been trying to ruin it with realism ever since' 14:22:16 <eekee> yes! hahaha 14:23:01 <supermop> a townset of nearly all 2x2 houses is fine, but default town road pattern would have a lot of trouble with it 14:23:08 <Wolf01> supermop, is it possible to put random stuff on sides? Like advertising poles popping out some now and then (not every tile) 14:23:11 <eekee> ah! 14:23:26 <supermop> Wolf01 idk maybe? 14:23:36 <eekee> i've actually never tried non-default townsets 14:23:47 <supermop> not sure how available random bits are to roads 14:24:25 <supermop> did you ever get anywhere with your Cyprus trees lining your tuscan roads wolf? 14:25:01 <supermop> custom fences/trees/sidewalks per roadtype would solve a lot of my graphic wishes 14:25:20 <supermop> will frosch123 kill me? 14:25:47 <Wolf01> We are used to sycamores here, harder wood, cars crash better 14:26:00 <eekee> hehe 14:26:11 <supermop> what are the tall pointy ones they use in Tuscany then? 14:26:49 <supermop> also surprised no one has ever made any italian town sets 14:27:53 <Wolf01> Maybe cypress ones, here we use them only for roads to graveyards 14:28:08 <Wolf01> I wanted to, shit at drawing 14:28:18 <supermop> that maybe a nice niche feature for nrt then 14:28:28 <Wolf01> Just look at my brickland baseset 14:28:43 <supermop> switch to detect if house with flag 'is graveyard' is nearby 14:28:57 <eekee> lol 14:30:28 <supermop> Wolf01: whats brickland? 14:31:00 <supermop> also i think I could never finish a townset because as an architect i'd never be able to move on to the 2nd sprite 14:31:44 <Wolf01> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=34999 14:33:03 <supermop> oh yeah that was cool 14:33:40 <supermop> better than my brio climate which got only one wagon and some track slopes drawn 14:36:12 <eekee> haha i'd have that trouble 14:36:22 <supermop> is 50kmh too fast for the crappy tramway? 14:36:38 <eekee> i never want to move on to my next game in openttd, i always want to keep polishing the old ones 14:39:46 <Alberth> watching trains is much more fun than building new networks :) 14:40:16 <supermop> Wolf01 I think 'hway', as I am defining it, should have guardrails or walls in town instead of sidewalks maybe? and then wide shoulders outside of town 14:40:58 <supermop> a switch to add guardrails whenever road has foundations would be nice for winding mountain routes 14:42:05 <Wolf01> HWAY in town should be like normal road, they must have guardrails on country, where ROAD should not have them 14:42:48 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27766 trunk/src/newgrf.cpp (2017-03-05 15:42:41 +0100 ) 14:42:49 <DorpsGek> -Fix: Obiwan opposed translations for text id D3FF and DCFF in Action 13. 14:42:53 <supermop> was thinking asphalt should not have yellow stripes in town 14:43:02 <eekee> Alberth: yes :) i also like improving old lines better than planning new ones, up to a point 14:43:05 <Wolf01> Obiwan" 14:43:07 <Wolf01> XD 14:43:21 <supermop> its not 100% realistic, but not 100% unrealistic either 14:43:27 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27767 trunk/src/newgrf.cpp (2017-03-05 15:43:21 +0100 ) 14:43:28 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Industries and houses should just use the default-case in Action 4. 14:44:05 <supermop> many suburban residential streets do not have them 14:44:21 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27768 trunk/src/newgrf.cpp (2017-03-05 15:44:15 +0100 ) 14:44:22 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Use if and IsInsideMM instead of switch-case sequences to test for consecutive values. 14:44:28 <supermop> but you also cannot drive 100kmph on those streets... 14:45:19 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27769 trunk/src/newgrf.cpp (2017-03-05 15:45:13 +0100 ) 14:45:20 <DorpsGek> -Change: [NewGRF] Extend the DCxx range to D800-DFFF. 14:46:45 <andythenorth> Alberth: template fill is via chameleon 14:46:58 <andythenorth> but only inside the python part of the compile 14:47:09 <andythenorth> otherwise just %s or something 14:47:59 <eekee> all this talk about highways is confusing me. i've driven a lot in the south of england: sussex, hampshire, bit of kent and devon. A roads which aren't dual carriageways mostly don't have barriers except at junctions 14:48:52 <supermop> hmm need to split template so that bridge catenary is from a different png than regular wires 14:49:07 <Wolf01> We have moats 14:49:28 <eekee> also we didn't use the word 'highway' much. some brits did, but mostly it was one of those american tv show words 14:49:32 <supermop> eekee: ive diven on roads in cornwall where hedges were rubbing my little Peugeot on both sides 14:49:57 <supermop> granted that was not an A-road 14:50:23 <Samu> just made a standalone patch for sort by aircraft type Alberth, where do i put it? forum? 14:50:29 <eekee> oh i've driven roads that narrow in sussex, but i'm thinking of the a29 14:50:36 <supermop> ugh 14:50:41 <supermop> a29 is brutal 14:50:45 <Samu> the other request is gonna take more time 14:50:45 <eekee> :D 14:50:53 <eekee> it wasn't my favourite road 14:50:56 <supermop> along north coast of devon& cornwall 14:51:09 <eekee> i only went there once 14:51:11 <supermop> was sure I was going to die 14:51:17 <eekee> hahaha 14:51:35 <eekee> i used to race along tiny sussex backroads. stupid really 14:51:47 <eekee> A27 was my favourite road though 14:52:00 <eekee> ... apart from arundel and worthing >.< lol 14:53:57 <supermop> I don't mind west country driving, but a29 has the traffic and speed of a motorway on what seems like a mountain access road 14:54:33 <supermop> was a bit much to do right after landing at Bristol from EWR without having slept at all 14:54:42 <eekee> it wasn't heavily trafficked when i drove it, but i can imagine some of the traffic from the a27 spilling onto it would make it pretty bad 14:54:45 <eekee> yeah! 14:55:04 <Wolf01> supermop usually our roads, at least in northern italy are like this http://www.lastampa.it/rf/image_lowres/Pub/p3/2014/12/03/Scienza/Foto/RitagliWeb/Copia%20(2)%20di%203-U1040781989386ypB--990x556%40LaStampa.it.jpg 14:55:15 <eekee> i mostly drove it at quiet times of the day, i think 14:55:25 <supermop> huge busses and lorries coming around those hairpins when i'm already re-acclimating myself to left side driving 14:55:53 <supermop> PAGINA NON TROVATA 14:55:55 <eekee> Wolf01: the a29 is 1.25 to 1.75 times as wide as that.. :) 14:56:21 <Wolf01> Copy the entire link, maybe your client cuts it on some symbol 14:56:26 <eekee> i thought the dover road (a21?) was worse for trucks 14:56:36 <eekee> it's narrower 14:57:02 <eekee> or no... there are narrow parts of the a29 14:57:43 <supermop> Wolf01: asphalt rd would be nice if it could look like that outside of town 14:57:50 <Wolf01> Yup 14:57:54 <Wolf01> It can 14:58:06 <Wolf01> You can check in which town zone you are 14:58:22 <supermop> I need to learn how to do that 14:58:34 <eekee> i'm thinking of making highways as 2 one-way roads 14:58:43 <eekee> dual carriageways, anyway 14:58:45 <Wolf01> Yeah 14:59:07 <supermop> eekee: that's how most players do it, but RVS wont drive in the 'fast' lane 14:59:34 <supermop> also the corners look pretty stupid 14:59:36 <eekee> not even to overtake like they do on regular roads? 14:59:40 <eekee> oh yeah 15:00:00 <Wolf01> It would be cool also if roads could sense the proximity of other roads and slopes to provide different "sidewalk" types 15:00:04 <supermop> then can overtake, but you do not get the huge increase in capacity you'd expect 15:00:15 <eekee> ah, that's a shame 15:00:43 <Wolf01> http://goingbent.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/open-highway.jpg like this highway, guardrail for downward slope, no guardrail for the upward one 15:00:52 <supermop> Wolf01: yes! like in that tram pic I linked - if tramway is in the middle of two roads, maybe don't put sidewalks there 15:01:09 <eekee> it would help where i have hoverbusses & slow water trucks on the same route, i guess, but then i only use road for that where the land is insanely hilly. hmm! 15:01:50 <Wolf01> And when you build 2 highways adjacent you can make the middle ad a line of trees 15:01:50 <supermop> Wolf01: if guardrail is somehow part of foundation that would work well 15:02:01 <Wolf01> http://www.oneindia.com/img/2016/09/highways-18-1474194660.jpg 15:02:33 <supermop> Wolf01: same for wide city boulevards 15:02:38 <Wolf01> +1 15:03:39 <eekee> that's the road the m25 wishes it could be: plenty of lanes for the traffic 15:03:48 <supermop> ok so how do I split the cat template so it gets the first 23 sprites from one png, and the last 6 from another? 15:16:10 <Samu> is notroadtypes able to define overtaking rules? 15:16:15 <Samu> that's interesting 15:16:22 <Wolf01> No 15:16:30 <Samu> :( 15:16:48 <Samu> you can overtake at this road 15:16:52 <Samu> but not on that road 15:17:08 <Samu> but wouldn't it be interesting' 15:17:57 <Wolf01> That could be a flag, used by roadtpes, but how and when is not a task for roadtypes 15:21:54 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 15:21:56 <Samu> there are 56 lang files, ouch 15:23:28 <supermop> what about 'no junctions' 15:24:06 <Wolf01> I've got already burned by that 15:24:29 <supermop> thinking about gondolas and chairlifts 15:24:53 <Wolf01> The best solution was "forbid towns to connect to this roadtype" 15:25:32 <Wolf01> I'm also for point-to-point routes 15:25:55 <Samu> "new stringing convention" versus old convention + "append what's missing" at the end of the strings 15:26:03 <Samu> for all languages? 15:26:17 <supermop> Wolf01 yeah a gondola is sort of like a pipe 15:26:34 <supermop> but for now it would be fun to fake it as a tram 15:26:59 *** Snail has joined #openttd 15:27:03 <Wolf01> D=S=========S) <-turnaround (like trams), it should work 15:27:54 <supermop> have to trust people not building junctioned networks of gondolas 15:28:15 <supermop> maybe just define all the junction sprites to be a middle finger 15:28:50 <Samu> i want a string patcher 15:28:56 <Samu> if such thing exists 15:30:42 <Wolf01> Sed 15:31:10 <supermop> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/ptfdhz9s5 15:31:24 <supermop> how do I make the bridge portion come from a different png? 15:31:57 <Wolf01> supermop, maybe if we insist, also andythenorth considered that 15:33:29 <Samu> find a string with the name "STR_BLA_BLA_BLA", copy the text "that's there already", then append " more text at the end" of "that's there already", to become "that's there already more text at the end" 15:34:58 <Samu> i suppose there is no sed for windows 15:35:02 <eekee> Samu: sed 's/STR_BLA_BLA_BLA.*that's there already/& more text at the end/ 15:35:26 <Samu> can notepad++ do something like that? 15:35:45 <Wolf01> Samu, you have windows 10, then you have ubuntu subsystem 15:35:49 <eekee> probably with regexp search & replace 15:36:59 *** Snail has quit IRC 15:37:09 <eekee> most half-decent text editors have regexp search & replace 15:37:17 <eekee> might be called 'regex' without the p 15:37:19 *** Snail has joined #openttd 15:37:47 *** Snail has quit IRC 15:37:57 *** Snail has joined #openttd 15:38:35 *** Snail has quit IRC 15:39:05 *** Snail has joined #openttd 15:39:53 *** Snail has joined #openttd 15:40:11 <Samu> ?regular expression 15:40:11 *** Snail has quit IRC 15:40:23 <Samu> notepad does have this seach method, but... not sure how to use it 15:40:26 <Samu> notepad++ 15:40:41 *** Snail has joined #openttd 15:41:10 <supermop> brb 15:42:05 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 15:43:07 <frosch123> i still have no good idea for how to allow industries to specify multiple station names :/ 15:45:16 <Alberth> would be townname-ish, perhaps? 15:45:30 <Alberth> some parts as prefix, and some parts as suffix 15:45:50 <Alberth> or maybe only as suffix (of the town name) 15:46:38 <frosch123> question is whether industries are allowed to influence which name is picked 15:46:42 <frosch123> or whether it is pure random 15:46:59 <frosch123> in both cases the name should survive updating the grf 15:47:02 <Alberth> why would an industry want to influence the choice? 15:47:13 <Alberth> a steel mill is a steelmill, right? 15:47:23 <Alberth> s/ m/m/ 15:47:24 <frosch123> depending on town size, height or whatever 15:48:00 <frosch123> like the default station names pick east/west/heights/forrest/... 15:48:05 <planetmaker> o/ 15:48:20 <Alberth> I'd like to influence townname based on xy location (or percentage, perhaps) 15:48:24 <Alberth> hi hi planetmaker 15:48:27 <frosch123> we can store some index in the savegame, but we need a reliable way to again get a string for that 15:48:28 <planetmaker> don't we already have a choice list which industries can supply? 15:48:35 <planetmaker> or was it only one? 15:48:45 <frosch123> planetmaker: it's only one 15:49:06 <frosch123> i thought about adding *two* callbacks 15:49:31 <Alberth> tweak chances? 15:49:35 <frosch123> first one gets an industry id, tile and everything and is queried with random bits to decide a station name 15:49:39 <Alberth> becomes horribly expensive perhaps 15:49:54 <planetmaker> I suggest that then the industry NewGRF may suggest names, maybe even an ordered preference list. But the name is then copied to the station - thus after the station is built, it doesn't query the NewGRF anymore 15:50:03 <frosch123> the second has no industry, and is only used to give the string based on the info stored in the savegame 15:50:17 <planetmaker> s/after/when/ 15:50:26 <frosch123> it's similar to vehicle refitting with subtypes, except that vehicles cannot close while the stationame remains 15:53:51 <planetmaker> Hm... actually I really wonder whether we need really per-language names for stations. It seems awkward anyway 15:54:15 <planetmaker> IMHO it would be fine, if stationnames were chosen by the language setting of the player building the station 15:54:25 <Alberth> can't you point to a townname parts from the industry? 15:54:30 <planetmaker> it would also make it easier to communicate when talking about stations 15:54:53 <Alberth> industry can pick different parts id based on some preference 15:54:54 <planetmaker> and then you can just store the name once and for all and have no newgrf-change issue 15:55:02 <planetmaker> but ok... bike shedding :) 15:55:15 <frosch123> planetmaker: townnames are not stored as text in savegames 15:55:36 <frosch123> it's just that andy does not do townname grfs, and thus they do not change that often 15:55:43 <planetmaker> yes, I know... but they cannot be renamed by players 15:55:48 <planetmaker> stations can 15:55:56 <frosch123> players can also rename towns 15:56:01 <planetmaker> ups :) 15:56:10 <Alberth> so you store the pointed-to townname parts, and the random bits 15:56:20 <frosch123> though there is a setting to disable renaming in multiplayer, because some people were annoyed by trolls 15:56:21 <planetmaker> well, then yes, the same mechanism as there 16:01:37 <eekee> once i saw a town and all its stations and my company renamed by an update to openttd, gannington -> ganton. english names, no grf 16:07:17 <Samu> oh, even visual studio got a regular expression search mode, woah, call me impressed 16:07:31 <frosch123> problem with townnames is that they are not translatablwe 16:07:35 <frosch123> which is terrible for singleplayer 16:08:44 <planetmaker> why is that horrible for SP? You mean MP? 16:09:14 <frosch123> if you have set everything to german, why should all stations near firs industries have english names? 16:10:25 <frosch123> you can pick a town name set of your liking 16:10:41 <frosch123> but adding a parameter to a industry set to control which language the station names use, is just weird 16:10:44 *** supermop has quit IRC 16:11:16 <eekee> do you mean, like, "dresden brickworks"? 16:11:59 <frosch123> klein kleckersdorf tanner road 16:12:07 <eekee> right 16:12:24 <eekee> that would be firs which needs translating, wouldn't it? 16:12:54 <eekee> or am i misunderstanding what 'tanner road' is? :) 16:13:25 <frosch123> stations near firs mines are named "tanner road" when you use english 16:13:43 <frosch123> if station names would work like townnames, they would be fixed and not translateable 16:15:21 <eekee> near *mines*??? 16:16:08 <eekee> now wondering what's wrong with firs :) 16:16:26 <frosch123> currently they are translated, which makes stations near mines named "Bergwerk" in german 16:16:39 <eekee> ok 16:25:26 *** supermop has joined #openttd 16:26:56 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 16:27:42 <andythenorth> random lists? 16:27:52 * andythenorth has only part-read the transcript :) 16:28:46 <frosch123> well, if noone once to influence which name is picked, i would just go for a purchase-list-style callback, that builds a list of up to 256 names or so 16:28:55 <frosch123> s/once/wants/ 16:28:59 <frosch123> english :/ 16:29:52 <frosch123> ottd would then save the index to that list in the savegame 16:30:11 <frosch123> and it's the grf's responsibility to only extend the list at the end 16:30:39 <Alberth> how is that different from selecting parts from a townname list? 16:31:01 <frosch123> the names would be translateable 16:31:28 <Alberth> ah, of course 16:31:48 <frosch123> and i do not see how one would compose station names from multiple parts 16:32:16 <frosch123> unless you go for Peter Watt Avenue 16:32:55 <frosch123> but that would not be industry specific anymore 16:33:11 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 16:33:23 <frosch123> but rather for town-based stations 16:33:45 <frosch123> we could extent the townname spec to also provide station names, in the same language as the town names 16:34:04 <frosch123> that works for street names 16:34:59 <Alberth> combined multiple parts is also a lot harder to translate 16:40:11 *** fonsinchen has quit IRC 16:40:38 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd 16:42:13 <fonsinchen> It seems there are multiple interesting forks of OpenTTD around these days. Maybe something should be done to counter the growing fragmentation. 16:45:46 <frosch123> i don't think anyone is interested in making the features work with each other 16:46:58 <fonsinchen> Yes, that's kind of a problem ... 16:47:10 <fonsinchen> I don't really see a solution either 16:47:28 <frosch123> i think it is fine as long as the add-ons (gs and newgrf) work with each of them 16:47:42 <Wolf01> I think I'll make my own NRT too, without OTTD 16:47:48 <frosch123> patchpacks are imho a good solution to provide more specialised features 16:48:11 <fonsinchen> Wolf01: What is "NRT"? 16:48:21 <Wolf01> NotRoadTypes 16:48:45 <Alberth> a whole new fork :) 16:48:50 <frosch123> also, doesn't jgrpp include everything? 16:49:00 <Alberth> almost, afaik 16:49:15 <fonsinchen> There are some performance improvements and bug fixes that could very well be applied to mainline ottd, though. 16:49:30 <frosch123> fonsinchen: fs#6540 is for you then :) 16:49:49 <Alberth> :) 16:50:12 <frosch123> hmm, or is that older than cdist? 16:50:16 <frosch123> it looked like cdist at first 16:52:13 <fonsinchen> It is cdist, and a simple "forgot to initialize variable" problem AFAICS 16:56:52 <fonsinchen> Well, some of it. The _cargo_source_xy and _cargo_feeder_share stuff is older but the same problem 17:06:21 <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r27770 trunk/src/saveload/station_sl.cpp (2017-03-05 18:06:14 +0100 ) 17:06:22 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6540]: Initialize variables in station_sl.cpp (JGR) 17:06:26 <fonsinchen> There we go. 17:06:36 <frosch123> :) 17:09:23 <eekee> every time i open a train window, it's pinned. is this intentional, or is it a bug from running on a 5 year old linux system? 17:10:51 <frosch123> eekee: ctrl-click the pin icon saves the pin-state for the next time 17:11:02 <frosch123> so unpin it, and then ctrl-click the pin 17:13:35 <eekee> thanks, i discovered that & forgot it 17:13:50 <eekee> that worked ^^ 17:17:17 <andythenorth> fonsinchen: I wondered about the forks 17:17:26 <andythenorth> multiple viable forks is a good thing I think :) 17:17:51 <SpComb> looking at what JGR is doing, it does start to kind of look like a viable fork 17:18:12 <SpComb> dunno how long most PPs tend to live for 17:19:05 <andythenorth> most seem to die, often the maintainer probably just can’t keep up 17:19:11 <andythenorth> things I wondered…. 17:19:12 <frosch123> SpComb: jgr is around for long enough, and is likely past graduation, so it is unlikely that he would stop any time 17:19:44 <andythenorth> - encourage them to use the ottd build infrastructure? it was easy for TB to add NRT to it. OTOH, multiple people maintaining build farms might be not bad either 17:20:04 <andythenorth> - encourage them to use github or something where we can see their repo publicly? 17:20:22 <frosch123> the latter is the case :) 17:21:54 <Samu> i don't know how to use visual studio regular expression 17:22:18 <Samu> what do i put in find? 17:22:23 <Samu> what do i put in replace 17:22:42 <frosch123> other pp died precisely the moment they got a compile farm :p 17:23:14 <Samu> find what: 17:23:16 <Samu> replace with: 17:23:37 <SpComb> although, maybe the true qualifier for a fork would be a patchpack with multiple maintainers 17:24:09 <andythenorth> so what are the current forks? 17:24:19 <SpComb> I think PPs die when their maintainers lose interest and stop playing the game themselves 17:24:20 <andythenorth> JGR, Cirdan, NRT, Luukland (ahem) 17:24:53 <frosch123> i have no idea whether reddit and btpro share their client 17:24:54 <andythenorth> OpenTTD Spring PP 2013 seems to be active 17:25:28 <eekee> Samu: . matches any 1 character, usualy not including newline. . * matches zero or more or the preceeding thing, so .* matches any number of characters. there are other special characters which you can escape with \ for a literal match. you'd best see visual studio's documentation, because different programs have different regexps 17:25:36 <frosch123> i would think that all single-player-focused pp are superceeded by jgrpp 17:25:56 <andythenorth> this is TB’s post explaining build-farm philosophy https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=74046&p=1162055&hilit=compile#p1162055 17:26:15 <Samu> Find what: ^STR_ENGINE_PREVIEW_COST_MAX_SPEED_CAPACITY_CAPACITY_RUNCOST.* 17:26:27 <Samu> Replace with: i have no idea 17:26:49 <Samu> i want it to take what's already there, then add more stuff at the end 17:27:13 <andythenorth> my other ‘I wonder’ is same as fonsinchen’s - are PPs testing any useful patches that would be valid for trunk 17:27:29 <eekee> Samu: & in replace *probably* stands for what was matched 17:27:30 <Alberth> just ignore the too long string names, Samu 17:28:12 <andythenorth> Alberth: I was afk most of afternoon, did the template answer help? o_O 17:28:19 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 17:29:00 <Alberth> thanks, I missed that, highlighting is broken 17:29:14 <Alberth> euhm, I guess so 17:30:02 <Samu> Replace with: &{}Aircraft Type: {STRING} 17:30:09 <Samu> let me see 17:31:29 <Samu> Alberth: im still learning 17:31:37 <Samu> then i'll do it the other way 17:32:07 <Alberth> andythenorth: I made some small applications for parts of the problem https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pgs9sz112 17:32:25 <Samu> {}Aircraft Type: {STRING} was placed at the start of the line, i wanted it at the end of it 17:32:31 <Samu> almost there 17:32:45 <andythenorth> Alberth: neat :) 17:32:48 <Alberth> which mostly is missing a template expander 17:32:49 <andythenorth> portable, reusable 17:33:05 <Alberth> that's my hope somewhat :) 17:33:09 <andythenorth> is there some off-the-shelf template expander we can use? 17:33:13 <andythenorth> chameleon is all wrong for this :P 17:33:40 <andythenorth> is something doing %s out of the question? I find it hard to read, but it seems widely used 17:34:14 <Alberth> I have some code for it, but that it's for a larger scale, I'd need to downsize it 17:34:26 <Alberth> may be useful anyway to extend my solution with that 17:34:38 <Alberth> otherwise something string template-ish? 17:34:39 *** supermop has quit IRC 17:34:52 <Alberth> didn't look at that at all, no idea what it does 17:35:23 <Alberth> %s is hard to use if you replace 2 elements in a file :) 17:35:36 <Alberth> you can't tell which replacement goes where :) 17:35:47 *** supermop has joined #openttd 17:35:51 <Alberth> but something unique like %blah% is simple enough 17:36:02 <Samu> replace with: &'{}Aircraft Type: {STRING} 17:36:44 <Alberth> you're not trying to extend the text of the string, are you? 17:37:08 <Alberth> unless you write 40 different languages fluently, of course 17:39:00 <andythenorth> bash templating? 17:40:18 <andythenorth> or python standard lib Template, but it seems a bit Fisher Price :P 17:41:06 <Alberth> my idea is still make a sequence of key=value pairs at the command-line, and a filename for the template 17:41:30 <Alberth> then replace %key% by the value, for each pair in the text of the template 17:41:40 <Alberth> write the result out to an output file 17:41:47 <frosch123> isn't "deflating" the uncompressing part of zip? 17:41:57 <Samu> don't know how to use this grr 17:42:21 <Samu> deflate is compressing 17:42:33 <Samu> inflate is decompressing 17:42:53 <frosch123> what is the difference between "bin/find-files -e bla" and "find . -name '*.bla'"? or do you want to create your own mingw? 17:43:26 <Alberth> apparently not frosch123 https://docs.python.org/3/library/zipfile.html?highlight=zipfile#zipfile.ZIP_DEFLATED 17:44:02 <frosch123> that is gzip? 17:44:16 <Alberth> bin/find-files takes more directories, but otherwise, I agree very little different from regular find 17:44:18 <frosch123> from the help message it read like zip 17:44:30 <Alberth> zipfile module is zip 17:45:07 <Alberth> https://docs.python.org/3/library/gzip.html?highlight=gzip#module-gzip gzip is named 'gzip' :) 17:45:36 <frosch123> i thought zlib was about gzip 17:45:48 <Alberth> no, zlib is much older 17:45:53 <Alberth> it's .Z 17:46:06 <frosch123> oh, compress/decompress 17:48:57 <Alberth> find just have a much more weird syntax 17:49:10 <Alberth> as it can do more than just finding files by name 17:49:18 <frosch123> yep, it is ancient :) 17:50:09 <Alberth> it's quite powerful, find files by modification date, size, access rights, etc 17:51:34 <frosch123> i have used it for log rotation :) 17:52:01 <eekee> i use find -type f; regular files only 17:53:28 <Alberth> andythenorth: https://docs.python.org/3/library/string.html?highlight=string#template-strings seems to mostly work, just wrap a command-line around it 17:54:20 <andythenorth> +1 18:07:24 *** maciozo has joined #openttd 18:11:34 <andythenorth> frosch123: got an answer for industry names yet? o_O 18:11:44 <andythenorth> industry [station] names 18:13:06 <frosch123> the answer so far is that newgrf do not need any influence on which name is picked 18:13:33 <frosch123> and would just provide a list choices, which ottd picks randomly from 18:14:09 <andythenorth> seems sound 18:14:32 * andythenorth is not the set of all industry authors….but… 18:14:51 <andythenorth> station names feature is probably the least interesting of industry properties 18:15:04 <andythenorth> it’s kind of nice, and there’s an obligation to use it because it’s there 18:15:09 *** roidal has quit IRC 18:15:10 <andythenorth> but really it adds almost nothing :P 18:15:25 <frosch123> it's candy 18:15:28 <andythenorth> yup 18:15:49 <andythenorth> someone else can make some FIRS commits in future then :D 18:18:50 <supermop> yo 18:19:05 <supermop> still no idea how to get this template to work 18:27:46 <supermop> is it possible? to pull catenary sprites from two pngs? 18:28:14 <frosch123> yes, just split your template in the middle 18:29:11 <frosch123> or do you mean to draw multipe sprites on the same tile? 18:35:29 <Samu> eekee: find what: (^STR_ENGINE_PREVIEW_COST_MAX_SPEED_CAPACITY_CAPACITY_RUNCOST)(.*)(\b) 18:35:47 <Samu> eekee: replace with: {}Aircraft Type: {STRING} 18:36:01 <Samu> it works 18:36:26 <Samu> end of line character was difficult to deal with 18:36:44 <Samu> (\b) solved it 18:38:11 <supermop> frosch123: i did this so far: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/ptfdhz9s5 18:38:57 <supermop> but i'm not sure how to say that tmpl_wire_bridge will use a different png file 18:39:38 <andythenorth> 59 uses of #define left in FIRS 18:39:46 * andythenorth has a goal :P 18:41:43 <frosch123> supermop: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pwowgxobc <- i think that works 18:42:00 <supermop> oooh thanks! 18:42:03 <supermop> ill try it 18:44:34 <Samu> i think {}Aircraft Type: {STRING} is better 18:44:40 <Samu> let me test 18:48:43 *** glx has joined #openttd 18:48:43 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 18:49:15 <Samu> must find end of line differences, grrr 18:52:33 *** mr_wee has joined #openttd 18:52:49 <mr_wee> Guten Abend zusammen 18:53:29 <supermop> frosch123: would it be possible to test whether tram tile has road, or vis versa? 18:54:16 <planetmaker> frosch123, supermob: you can also create one template with two filenames as parameter 18:54:29 <supermop> ah hmm 18:54:46 <frosch123> supermop: we added that to the todo list the other day 18:55:07 <supermop> I haven't compiled to test yet bc i'm also trying to add a town zone switch at the moment 18:56:15 *** mr_wee has quit IRC 18:57:17 <Samu> ah, it works fine either way 19:03:00 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 19:07:38 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 19:17:39 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 19:21:35 *** Progman has joined #openttd 19:23:12 <andythenorth> child #1 wants a ‘industry catches fire’ disaster 19:23:17 <andythenorth> which requires a fire plane 19:23:32 <supermop> +100 19:23:33 <andythenorth> he also, left unsupervised, built 2 tile wide canals, ‘so the boats fit' 19:23:55 <supermop> what are canal costs set at? 19:25:05 <andythenorth> dunno 19:27:00 <planetmaker> how old is child #1? :) 19:27:09 <planetmaker> must be not so new anymore, is he? 19:27:26 *** maciozo has quit IRC 19:28:27 <andythenorth> 7 19:28:43 <Alberth> boats fitting in the canal are highly important 19:48:11 <Wolf01> We should let kids play and implement their suggestions, the games will be really more fun 19:48:54 <supermop> +1 19:49:14 <Wolf01> If a kid says "wtf, it shouldn't work this way", it really shouldn't work this way, kids always tell the truth 19:49:51 <Wolf01> If a kid tells you that you have an ugly ass, you have an ugly ass :D 19:50:07 <supermop> D: 19:50:32 <Samu> (^STR_ENGINE_PREVIEW_COST_MAX_SPEED_CAPACITY_CAPACITY_RUNCOST)( )(.*)(\b) 19:50:45 <Eddi|zuHause> it's either that, or someone else told them you have an ugly ass, and they're just repeating what they were told. 19:51:38 <Wolf01> So andy's kid is biased? 19:51:58 <Wolf01> "tell'em you want double canals so ships fit" 19:52:36 <Samu> (^STR_ENGINE_PREVIEW_COST_MAX_SPEED_CAPACITY_CAPACITY_RUNCOST)( )(.*)(\b) 19:52:41 <Samu> number of spaces matter 19:52:49 <supermop> add age verification to suggestions forum so only users under 10 can post 19:53:12 <Wolf01> Yup >10 only flame :P 19:53:13 <Samu> _TYPE{}Aircraft Type: {STRING} 19:53:34 <Samu> i can rename strings like a pro now, lol 19:55:13 <Samu> Find all "(^STR_ENGINE_PREVIEW_COST_MAX_SPEED_CAPACITY_CAPACITY_RUNCOST)( )(.*)(\b)", Regular expressions, Subfolders, Find Results 1, Entire Solution, "" 19:55:46 <Samu> Matching lines: 56 Matching files: 56 Total files searched: 1053 19:55:54 <Samu> there's 56 language files 19:56:25 <Samu> clicking Replace All 19:56:45 <frosch123> supermop: physical or mental age? 19:57:21 <Samu> oh yesh, visual studio just opened 56 files... just so that I can "undo" 19:58:48 <supermop> hah 20:00:21 <supermop> I'm going to break convention and make tram tracks more brown 20:00:49 <supermop> otherwise they need to be too bright to show up on roads 20:02:05 <Samu> it can compile 20:02:17 <Samu> it's building... woah, i'm impressed 20:15:34 <supermop> brown doesnt work - too many years of seeing rails as grey 20:19:07 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 20:19:20 <Samu> there are 2 language files that do not have some strings, is that intended? 20:19:31 <Samu> found 54 occurences 20:19:43 <Samu> the ones about aircraft range weren't found 20:20:46 <Samu> let me find this better, wanna make sure 20:23:09 <Samu> darn ship string getting in the way 20:23:14 <supermop> gonna add a few rust flecks in the shadows 20:26:23 <Samu> looks like it's intended? 20:26:32 <Samu> there's actually 64 language files 20:26:50 <Samu> 8 unfinished 20:26:53 <Samu> makes it 56 20:27:19 <Samu> 2 of these 56 don't have strings for displaying aircraft range in the preview window, it seems 20:28:48 *** supermop__ has joined #openttd 20:33:19 *** supermop_ has quit IRC 20:35:22 <Samu> nevermind, i'm dumb, false alarm 20:36:00 <Samu> it was esperanto and arabic egypt 20:36:59 <Samu> the reason they were missing was because untraslated strings aren't even copied into the lang files 20:40:46 <Alberth> yep, anything missing from a translation is not translated 20:41:40 <Alberth> I think the strgen program handles copying, but not sure 20:49:03 <supermop> gravel needs to be a bit darker I Wolf01, no? 20:49:16 <Wolf01> Not sure 20:51:59 <Wolf01> There are different colors of gravel roads, and most of them depends on usage 20:54:44 <supermop> struglling to get tramway to show up clearly on gravel 21:00:22 *** Alberth has left #openttd 21:01:01 <Wolf01> And if you forbid building tramway over gravel? 21:01:23 <Wolf01> (not yet available at this stage, but just consider it) 21:01:41 <supermop> that would be fine, if possible, but it might be nice to have around quarries and mines 21:02:06 <Wolf01> Sure 21:03:00 <supermop> so if I have a town zone based switch.. how does that work? 21:05:04 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:05:51 <frosch123> switch(FEAT_ROADTYPES, SELF, town_zone) { 4: center_sprites; 3: inner_sprites; 2:outer_sprites; 1:outskirt_sprites: default: faraway_sprites } 21:05:59 <supermop> there are 5 zones? and 5 is the most center? 21:06:05 <supermop> oh 21:06:38 <supermop> so 0 is like no town zone 21:06:47 <Wolf01> 0 is country 21:10:34 <Eddi|zuHause> town zones work like this: small towns (inner) 2-1-0 (outer), large towns: (inner) 5-4-3-1-0 (outer) 21:10:43 <supermop> so I wonder what the easiest way to use this to good effect in the grf is 21:11:08 <Eddi|zuHause> so for large towns there is no 2, but it's split into 3+4+5 21:11:28 <frosch123> there is no 5 21:11:39 <supermop> perhaps some way to differentiate asphalt and hway? 21:11:41 <Eddi|zuHause> are you sure? 21:11:50 <frosch123> supermop: 4 should be some kind of pedestrian zone 21:11:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i've heard lots of talk about a town zone 5 21:12:16 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause pedestrian zone on the highway might get messy 21:12:24 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: look at HouseZonesBits 21:12:33 <frosch123> the rest is about counting from 0 or from 1 21:13:01 <frosch123> supermop: in that case, noise barriers 21:13:10 <Eddi|zuHause> unfortunately, i cannot investigate this right now 21:13:47 <supermop> hmm where to steal some good gpl barriers 21:16:13 *** argoneus_ has joined #openttd 21:18:08 *** argoneus has quit IRC 21:18:23 *** Lamp- has quit IRC 21:18:41 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pv4hpnauh <- i guess you want to look at that 21:18:52 <supermop> will have to just be pink lines for now, want to test 21:19:25 <supermop> don't want to draw right now, just spent an hour trying to make tram tracks slightly brown 21:21:10 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 21:21:37 <supermop> in a regular small town, are there any houses in zone 0? 21:22:30 <frosch123> yes 21:22:38 <supermop> I find in big cities, too much of the town area is the densest zone 21:23:28 <supermop> the radius of the center is huge compared to the thickness of the belts of outer zones 21:23:32 <frosch123> zone 0 is still in the town 21:23:48 <frosch123> outside of town would be zone -1, but that does not exist, and is treated like zone 0 21:24:14 <supermop> for example, the zone with trees ends up looking like an expanding thin circle 21:25:24 <supermop> I guess I am wondering, is there a zone without sidewalks that is still distinct from countryside 21:27:10 <frosch123> no idea, i do not play pax games, so i am not that familar with how towns actually look like 21:27:27 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 21:30:00 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 21:32:41 *** Lamp- has joined #openttd 21:43:10 *** ConductorCat has quit IRC 21:46:00 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:46:13 *** ConductorCat has joined #openttd 22:04:46 <supermop> hmm I wonder what will happen if I draw a curved guard rail for a highway curve, and then tram on that tile goes straight 22:06:43 <Eddi|zuHause> <supermop> I guess I am wondering, is there a zone without sidewalks that is still distinct from countryside <-- no, anything that would apply sidewalks to areas not currently covered with sidewalks will add sidewalks to the whole map 22:07:13 <Eddi|zuHause> <supermop> hmm I wonder what will happen if I draw a curved guard rail for a highway curve, and then tram on that tile goes straight <-- it will look weird 22:07:32 <supermop> trams will drive through the rail 22:07:41 <supermop> same with noise barriers 22:07:42 <Eddi|zuHause> but straight tram on curved road already looks a bit weird anyway 22:08:08 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: i would just forbid trams on highway roads 22:08:21 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: but that flag might not be part of the first implementation 22:08:30 <supermop> i could wait until either forbidding tramway on roadtype, or custom fences is supported 22:11:29 <supermop> so for now need a different way to differential regular asphalt and highway 22:12:07 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 22:12:10 <supermop> currently hway has shoulder and aspt has curb 22:12:25 <supermop> aspt also has crosswalk at intersection 22:15:08 *** gelignite has quit IRC 22:17:29 <supermop> 100kph is also a bit fast for an asphalt town road 22:23:01 <Eddi|zuHause> 80 is max in town areas, usually 22:23:52 <Eddi|zuHause> 70 if there are traffic lights 22:24:14 <supermop> yeah. I nudged it down to 80 to make HWAY more special, but now I need to add a faster trolleybus waytype, maybe bus guideway 22:24:55 <supermop> not sure if trolleybuses ever go that fast 22:25:23 <supermop> but in game seems like you'd need them to, to keep up with model progression 22:25:34 <Eddi|zuHause> there used to be a "duobus" system where the busses go part of their way on guiderails 22:27:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i think the intention was that they go on guiderails with trolley wire, on normal roads with trolley wire and on normal roads without trolley wire 22:27:34 <supermop> does my switch need to go right where the roadtype block is in my code? or does it go by the graphics? 22:27:59 <Eddi|zuHause> switches usually go near the graphics 22:28:00 <supermop> going to ready nml specs 22:28:03 <supermop> read 22:28:42 <Eddi|zuHause> you want to keep the distance between the switch and the graphics block which uses it small 22:28:54 <Eddi|zuHause> to not block too many switch IDs 22:36:10 <supermop> like this? https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pz5vdgbc6 22:38:52 <supermop> how does my roadtype block as to use that switch? 22:47:02 <Eddi|zuHause> your switch misses an identifier 22:47:15 <Eddi|zuHause> and you put that identifier in the graphics block 22:47:21 <supermop> can the id be anything i want? 22:47:32 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 22:47:41 <Eddi|zuHause> so long as it follows the usual rules for identifier 22:48:25 <Eddi|zuHause> so only letters, numbers and underscore (_) and first character cannot be a number 22:49:36 <Eddi|zuHause> and, of course, it must be unique 22:49:56 <Eddi|zuHause> (within the whole nml file) 22:50:25 <Eddi|zuHause> (and not be a reserverd word, like "switch") 22:50:35 <supermop> gah damn 22:50:46 <supermop> I just wrote "asphalt_switch" 22:58:48 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 23:11:45 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 23:24:56 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd 23:30:18 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 23:33:05 *** Progman has quit IRC 23:36:23 *** Snail has joined #openttd 23:49:50 *** ATS65 has joined #openttd 23:56:46 <Wolf01> 'night 23:56:48 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 23:56:55 *** ATS64 has quit IRC