Log for #openttd on 9th March 2017:
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00:14:18  <Samu> there is a bug in acceleration with trains
00:14:37  <Samu> they go faster on bridges
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00:14:59  <Samu> ST2: were you aware of this?
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00:43:42  <Wolf01> 'night
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11:04:44  <ZirconiumX> Well I can now build roads and depots.
11:04:56  <ZirconiumX> Bus routes are going to be a pain.
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12:49:36  <Wolf01> o/
12:49:43  <ZirconiumX> Hi Wolf
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14:27:15  <supermop> yo
14:27:22  <Wolf01> o/
14:28:57  <ZirconiumX> Hello
14:30:27  <crem> Hello/
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14:33:40  <supermop> i must be doing it wrong, because adding all these parameters and switches for depot styles in docklands has like doubled the length of the code
14:34:51  <Wolf01> IMO you should just do what please yourself
14:36:04  <Wolf01> Most of the flags won't be used by 99% of the players, just the one which selects CHIPS or ISR could be needed
14:36:31  <supermop> you are probably right
14:37:37  <supermop> i mean clearly all 4 road types using the same depot is kind of lame, but just simply providing a different depot with each one would still give most users all the flexibility they need
14:41:20  <dihedral> oi
14:44:30  <supermop> i adding spool style wires to docklands is going to add even more lines
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15:03:52  <supermop_> i wont add a parameter for wires though
15:16:30  *** Alberth has joined #openttd
15:16:30  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth
15:16:39  <Alberth> hi hi
15:16:46  <Wolf01> Hi
15:17:48  <crem> Hi.
15:29:08  <supermop_> hi Alberth
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16:29:36  <Samu> damn widgets
16:45:05  <ZirconiumX> NoAI folks: Does AIDepotList.AIDepotList() return a list of tile IDs, or something else?
16:46:18  <Alberth>  docs know
16:46:27  <ZirconiumX> I've read the docs
16:46:36  <ZirconiumX> "Creates a list of the locations of the depots (and hangars) of which you are the owner."
16:46:48  <ZirconiumX> Are these locations tile IDs, or something else?
16:47:17  <Alberth> TileIndex yes
16:47:23  <ZirconiumX> Thank you.
16:47:36  <Alberth> that's the only form of locations in the program :)
16:47:46  <ZirconiumX> Noted.
16:50:44  <ZirconiumX> So I could check if a tile is within a town by using AITown.IsWithinTownInfluence, right?
16:51:03  <ZirconiumX> (In case you're wondering, I'm trying to make sure I don't build tons of depots in the same town)
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16:56:35  <Samu> I'm starting to understand how widgets are dealt with
16:57:00  <ZirconiumX> That's a good start
16:57:22  <Samu> how to throw commands around, apparently the holy grail function is OnInvalidateData
16:58:20  <Samu> then i got 1 place, only 1 place that Stops the Transparency
16:58:41  <Samu> much better than what I was doing yesterday
17:18:20  <Alberth> "town influence " is bigger than purely town (ie houses), but it looks like a correct function
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17:19:44  <Alberth> o/
17:22:30  <frosch123> moi
17:31:55  <Wolf01> Quak
17:37:28  <supermop_> hi frosch123
17:38:23  <ZirconiumX> Hi frosch123
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18:27:41  <andythenorth> o/
18:28:48  <Wolf01> o/
18:29:12  <ZirconiumX> o/ andythenorth
18:29:23  <andythenorth> so…touch bar support in openttd? o_O
18:29:23  <andythenorth>
18:29:36  <ZirconiumX> Sure, go ahead and write it
18:32:00  <Wolf01> OTTD buttons are ugly and not in line with Apple standards
18:37:10  <frosch123> LordAro:
18:37:35  <andythenorth> Wolf01: I’d just do words :P
18:37:40  <LordAro> well that's inconvenient
18:38:02  <frosch123> what was the actual clang warning?
18:39:45  <supermop_> andythenorth: then i want surface pen support
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18:40:25  <supermop_> must have offended him
18:40:41  <Wolf01> I already play with pen :P
18:42:52  <LordAro> frosch123: hang on, lemme recompile
18:43:05  <LordAro> /home/lordaro/dev/openttd/src/core/smallstack_type.hpp:221:27: warning: instantiation of variable 'SmallStack<unsigned short, unsigned short, 65535, 8, 65533>::_pool' required here, but no
18:43:09  <LordAro>       definition is available [-Wundefined-var-template]
18:44:08  <supermop_>  i need more practice then
18:44:31  <LordAro> frosch123: maybe my extra line needs to be in the cpp file?
18:44:36  <LordAro> odd that it works for me though
18:45:40  <frosch123> diffferent compilers :)
18:46:07  <LordAro> evidently :p
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18:46:54  * LordAro tries gcc
18:47:45  <LordAro> also, 4.9? ancient :p
18:48:57  <frosch123> stable :)
18:49:13  <frosch123> ottd compile farm may be way more ancient
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18:51:58  <LordAro> ah, same error with gcc 6.3
18:52:47  <Eddi|zuHause> anyone remember that time when we supported gcc 2.ancient?
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18:55:44  <LordAro> frosch123: that said, i'm not entirely sure how aircraft_cmd & station have got caught up in this
18:57:08  <frosch123> i think they are just the first one
18:57:21  <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: your error kinda sounds like a wrong include
18:57:31  <frosch123> SmallStack is only used in typedef StationIDStack, which is defined in station_type.h
18:58:56  <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: might be a problem with your library, not the compiler
18:59:05  <ZirconiumX> Is there any way to speed up the frequency of subsidies?
18:59:14  <ZirconiumX> Other than hitting fast forward
18:59:18  <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: library? what?
18:59:31  <Eddi|zuHause> glibc
18:59:34  <Eddi|zuHause> or something
18:59:37  <ZirconiumX> LordAro: Clang uses libc++, right?
18:59:43  <ZirconiumX> Rather than libstdc++
18:59:44  <LordAro> ZirconiumX: not by default
19:00:02  <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: not sure how a template instatiation has anything to do with the library
19:00:29  <Eddi|zuHause> i've no idea either
19:01:02  <LordAro> but anyway, there's no differences between them unless being explicitly told
19:03:30  <ZirconiumX> Bugs are so much fun
19:03:31  <ZirconiumX>
19:03:46  <ZirconiumX> (It's facing the road)
19:09:10  <Samu> i got a problem yet with one of the stop transparency
19:09:21  <Samu> oninvalidate is being called twice
19:12:47  <Samu> SetObjectToPlace is calling w->OnPlaceObjectAbort();
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19:20:04  <LordAro> frosch123: i've got no idea what's going on :/
19:20:31  <frosch123> i think the typedef is interpreted as a template specialisation
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19:20:50  <frosch123> but well, i guess we keep the clang warnings :)
19:21:19  <LordAro> :(
19:21:37  <Samu> i think i figured it out, just checking
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19:22:32  <Samu> nop, i didn't
19:22:33  <Samu> :(
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19:41:56  <andythenorth> supermop_: I have a force-touch trackpad also :P
19:42:02  <andythenorth> supermop even
19:42:13  <supermop> either works
19:42:16  <andythenorth> so if I press softly, I want narrow gauge tracks
19:42:23  <andythenorth> and if I press harder, I get wider tracks :P
19:42:27  <andythenorth> patch for that?
19:44:35  <supermop> what if you press too hard? canal?
19:45:42  <andythenorth> maglev :P
19:45:55  <ZirconiumX> Canal would be funny
19:48:30  <Eddi|zuHause> wetrail?
19:50:13  <andythenorth> ah the enduring appeal of wetrail :P
19:50:24  <andythenorth> such trains :P
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19:56:06  <Samu> Alberth: i need help, can't do this alone, i'm almost there, but not quite
19:56:10  <Samu>
19:56:47  <Samu> problem is, i'm stopping transparency twice
19:57:20  <Samu> there are some OnInvalidateData being called multiple times, i dunno what to do
20:01:36  <Samu> one example is when I head to max vehicle ships
20:01:53  <andythenorth> is cat?
20:02:04  <supermop> i can't decide if i prefer the coal mine colored coalmine building of firs, or it's cc variant in chips
20:02:21  <Eddi|zuHause> two of them. one pretty wet...
20:02:50  <supermop> i mean obviously i prefer the mine variant, but doesn't do much for showing who owns it
20:03:20  <Samu> if i change the number of ships, regardless if to 0 or not, and i have any of the widget lowered, Stop Transparency can be called twice :(
20:05:08  <andythenorth> supermop: flip a coin
20:05:23  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: try the microwave
20:05:45  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: neither is this maniac mansion, nor a hamster
20:06:03  <supermop> andythenorth: unlikely. i already have the tan mine one modified with big door and correct shading for \
20:06:22  <supermop> in case you want one for mine layout vareity
20:07:05  <andythenorth> picture?
20:07:12  <andythenorth> also have you got a repo yet? o_O
20:14:51  <supermop> no, not bothering yet with an version control, pnml, or other best practices
20:14:57  <supermop> pic in a second
20:17:29  <supermop>
20:18:03  <Eddi|zuHause> is that related to pig in a blanket?
20:18:58  <supermop> road hog in a mine
20:20:09  <supermop> anyway, thats for docklands, so it's intended to look more like a building that might be on the grounds of a mine complex than a shop that fixes trucks
20:20:33  <supermop> want 1-2 more firs style buildings
20:20:56  <supermop> might use the open sided iron roofed shed that lives at some industries
20:21:31  <Eddi|zuHause> no, i meant "pic in a second" -> "pig in a blanket"
20:24:07  <Samu> well, i can't do this
20:24:10  <Samu> t.t
20:24:34  <Samu> apparently i only shifted the problem
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20:40:22  <andythenorth> computer migration time :P
20:40:39  <Eddi|zuHause> you pick it up and put it somewhere else?
20:40:45  <andythenorth> yes
20:40:57  <andythenorth> I pick up the old one, move it to one side
20:41:03  <andythenorth> put the new one in its place :P
20:41:28  <Eddi|zuHause> i was thinking of getting a new one with ryzen
20:42:25  <andythenorth> usually I migrate everything, $HOME, the apps, the ports tree etc, with rsync equivalent
20:42:41  <andythenorth> after > 15 years of that, I’m doing this one from scratch :P
20:42:45  <andythenorth> time for ‘fresh'
20:42:53  <andythenorth> regret will follow :P
20:43:04  <supermop> andythenorth: nothing from my vaio is on the surface
20:43:23  <andythenorth> maybe I should use Ansible, and make my system trivially redeployable
20:43:36  <Eddi|zuHause> i tried a fresh install a while ago. didn't really help
20:43:40  <supermop> the stuff i thought i'd want is on a usb drive, but never got around to using it
20:44:18  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean fresh os on the same computer
20:44:21  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: what didn’t it help? o_O
20:44:23  <andythenorth> oh that
20:44:56  <andythenorth> I think my current $HOME dates back to OS X public beta :P
20:45:05  <andythenorth> 2001 or so
20:45:06  <Eddi|zuHause> just all the annoying bugs were replaced by other annoying bugs
20:45:21  <supermop> fresh new bugs?
20:45:22  <andythenorth> I am mostly hoping that python 2.7 will build :P
20:45:34  <andythenorth> it’s inconvenient that it won't
20:45:53  <andythenorth> why replacing my entire OS and $HOME should fix setuptools failures, I don’t know
20:46:01  <andythenorth> but eh, apparently that’s the required solution
20:51:25  <andythenorth> unrelated
20:51:34  <andythenorth> are python globals a thing, or best just avoided?
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20:52:35  <Eddi|zuHause> global variables should be avoided
20:53:03  <Eddi|zuHause> python or not...
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20:53:05  <andythenorth> that rule has never failed me yet
20:53:51  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: have you ever encountered the problems with globals?
20:54:04  <andythenorth> or is the rule enough?
20:54:47  <Eddi|zuHause> i've had problems where i needed to turn globals into other things
20:55:25  <Eddi|zuHause> when you want to reuse a thing in some more varying contexts
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21:00:17  <andythenorth> in current context, my problem is globals
21:00:41  <andythenorth> so replacing them with globals is some fallacy
21:00:51  <andythenorth> probably has a name and a wikipedia page that fallacy
21:02:49  <frosch123> call them singletons instead of globals
21:02:58  <frosch123> that sounds way more fancy
21:04:25  <andythenorth> fair
21:04:45  <andythenorth> I could declare them as classes with just one value
21:05:07  <andythenorth> and some horrible way to return that
21:08:10  <supermop> i am just i am doing these build date dependent depots wrong , but
21:09:54  <supermop> if the last date range ends at 2099 (nrt specs say this is as far as range for build date variable goes)
21:10:18  <supermop> and i build a depot in 2100, what does it look like?
21:10:36  <andythenorth> well, new computer can’t use full animation in ottd either
21:10:41  * andythenorth unsurprised
21:10:55  <frosch123> supermop: why 2099?
21:11:19  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: there should be a "long date" property
21:11:49  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: there is only a long date variable
21:12:38  <Eddi|zuHause> then there probably isn't a 2100 limit
21:13:18  <supermop> there isn't a mention in your NRT page,
21:13:37  <frosch123> where does it say 2099 or 2100?
21:13:55  <supermop>
21:14:14  <frosch123> that is stations, not depots
21:14:14  <supermop> that isnt nrt but i assumed it would work the same way
21:14:42  <supermop> well regardless, is there a way i can leave the range in the switch open ended?
21:15:08  <andythenorth> I use max game date for that
21:15:13  <supermop> or what is the biggest year
21:15:15  <frosch123> supermop: 0xFFFFFFFF is the max value
21:15:55  <andythenorth>
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21:22:17  <supermop> date(0000,01,01),01,01): chips_road_depot_4;
21:22:30  <supermop> thats all of time for openttd right?
21:23:44  <frosch123> yeah, but you can also just write "0" for the first date
21:24:29  <frosch123> also i am not sure whether we start in year 0 or year 1
21:25:11  <frosch123> we start at 0
21:25:46  <frosch123> though that is no valid gregorian date iirc
21:34:05  <Eddi|zuHause> there exists a "backdated gregorian calendar with year 0"
21:35:02  <supermop> can Openttd have different calendars alike currencies?
21:35:06  <Eddi|zuHause> the problem is that the silly monks in the 4th century didn't know a 0
21:36:03  <andythenorth> openttd handles the year that gained or lost a day?
21:36:08  * andythenorth has vague recollection :P
21:38:38  <Supercheese> monks were probably too focused on beer to bother with silly zeroes
21:40:40  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: the problem is that 1 CE is precreeded by 1 BCE
21:40:46  <frosch123> there is no 0 CE or 0 BCE
21:41:15  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: yes, but that would only become relevant if we had negative dates
21:42:11  <Wolf01> Remove the "date" and use "played years" starting from 0 and just the season :P
21:42:45  <Wolf01> And break all the introduction dates :P
21:45:16  <andythenorth> +1
21:45:31  <andythenorth> and choose a tech ‘era'
21:45:36  <Wolf01> +1
21:45:43  <andythenorth> and then let GS choose to progress eras
21:45:48  <andythenorth> and offer no other mechanic
21:45:51  <andythenorth> so people have to write GS
21:46:23  <andythenorth> all vehicles for the era are available at start of era, with random offsets
21:46:33  <andythenorth> no other progression except the random
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22:33:02  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: negative dates would only really change dates beyond 2500000. and offset all other dates by 1 year if you want to "fix" the year 0
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23:42:53  <__ln__> well done Wolf01 and andy,
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