Log for #openttd on 22nd March 2017:
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08:39:02  <Wolf01> o/
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08:54:08  <Wolf01> Lèl
09:00:57  <Samu> is it possible to have ships do 90 degrees, but not trains, in the same game?
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10:13:16  <Samu> question, how do i separate a game setting?
10:13:28  <Samu> pf.forbid_90_deg
10:13:35  <Samu> i got this which affects both trains and ships
10:13:41  <Samu> i want to separate it
10:13:59  <Samu> pf.forbid_90_deg_trains and pf.forbid_90_deg_ships
10:14:24  <Samu> how would i be able to convert from the old setting to the 2 new settings? I wanna get rid of the old
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10:40:10  <peter1138> i looked at that
10:40:14  <peter1138> and then i wondered why bother?
10:41:00  <peter1138> i don't think 90 degree bends for ships has the same consequences as for trains
10:41:13  <peter1138> so why not just strip it out for ships
10:42:29  <Wolf01> Mmmmh, peter1138, to unlock bigger vehicles do I need to research them by luck? So far I analyzed at least 15  things and only unlocked dynamite...
10:42:42  <peter1138> i haven't got that far!
10:42:53  <peter1138> don't have a vehicle at all
10:43:01  <peter1138> hmm
10:43:16  <Wolf01> I'm roaming around with a nice rover and recovering a lot of materials now
10:43:47  <Wolf01> But it's limited in storage... and battery
10:44:17  <Wolf01> Battery depleted = must wait for the day to recharge with solar panel
10:44:50  <Samu> there are BIG ships
10:44:56  <Samu> i dunno
10:46:34  <Samu> i'd just get rid of 90 degrees for ships too, but i guess it's preferable to have an option to enable or disable
10:54:20  <Samu> help me understand something
10:54:48  <Samu> how am i renaming a variable
10:55:17  <Samu> or get rid of a variable but re-use what they were for conversion
10:57:59  <Samu> pf.forbid_90_deg would exist from savegame version 0 to 196, then from 197 it would be split into pf.forbid_90_deg_ships and pf.forbid_90_deg_trains, how am i doing this, need guidance
11:04:29  <Wolf01> Oh, it seem I can attach at least one more chassis to the rover, without a seat to make a trailer
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12:33:45  <peter1138> Samu, i don't know off hand for settings.
12:33:55  <peter1138> Samu, that's partly why i figured it was unnecessary :p
12:34:33  <peter1138> forbidding 90 degree turns for trains stops them turning around at X-style crossing
12:35:50  <peter1138> ships can turn on the spot anyway
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12:49:01  <Samu> peter1138:
12:49:05  <Samu> just posted
12:49:35  <Samu> had to fiddle with the pathfinders, hopefully I got them prepared to deal with 2 different settings now
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13:13:01  <supermop> yo
13:18:25  <peter1138> 100KB !?!
13:22:15  <Samu> yes
13:22:59  <peter1138> Oh, language update.
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13:47:08  <andythenorth> such Wednesday
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13:53:35  <Wolf01> o/
14:01:19  <crem> \o
14:02:06  <andythenorth> is game?
14:07:53  <supermop> is tiny kitchens
14:07:56  <supermop> 6'
14:08:04  <supermop> must include diswasher
14:13:45  <peter1138> You're a wednesday.
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14:20:01  <Samu> how does openttd guess that a setting from an old save belongs to the same on a new save
14:20:18  <Samu> does the order they're placed in settings.ini matter?
14:20:49  <Samu> I am surprised that it is converting correctly between old and new
14:21:39  <Wolf01> Mmmh, I think I've made a huge mistake, I purchased Astroneer on xbox live, but all my friends which might purchase it will do it on steam
14:22:01  <Wolf01> But I was too lazy to download it again...
14:22:45  <Wolf01> I hope for dedicated servers in future...
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14:52:17  <peter1138> Yeah, I got it on steam.
14:52:24  <peter1138> What the heck is xbox live...
14:55:32  <Wolf01> The microsoft hub for games
14:56:08  <Wolf01> New games purchased on xbox live are also playable on xbox one (if they have that version too)
14:56:35  <peter1138> Yeah I do know what it is.
14:56:38  <peter1138> But nobody uses it.
14:56:47  <peter1138> Not unless they have one of those crappy Xbox thigns.
15:00:14  <supermop> SICK BURN
15:00:44  <Wolf01> TBH I'm sick of different stores licenses... I would like to purchase games indipendently from the store and just have a library to launch the games and find friends to play with (somebody said gamespy?)
15:02:31  <andythenorth> Brownsville Turnaround On The Tex-Mex Border eh
15:03:21  <supermop> andythenorth: no idea what you're talking about but i assume it is bad
15:05:06  <andythenorth>
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15:36:38  <alluke> is there any way to search attached files at the forums?
15:37:17  <alluke> id need to find one save game but no idea how to find it
15:39:09  <alluke> i only know the related topic and poster and partial file name
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15:46:51  <Samu> oops, i can buy 100% AI shares
15:47:05  <Samu> in multiplayer that should be forbidden
15:47:35  <alluke> nvm, kept clicking next page + cmd + f
15:47:47  <alluke> found it on 74th page
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15:49:16  <Samu> can AIs buy shares from other companies?
15:49:25  <Samu> from other AIs, that is
15:51:58  <Alberth> in theory, yes
15:52:19  <Alberth> whether there is actually an API for it, I don't know
15:53:25  <Alberth> shares are kind of weird, they don't really have a place in the game
15:53:46  <andythenorth> they are half-assed
15:53:52  <Alberth> they likely only exist because the original game had them
15:53:53  <andythenorth> what’s the purpose of them>?
15:53:56  <Alberth> o/ andy
15:53:59  <andythenorth> hi
15:54:14  <andythenorth> Railroad Tycoon 2 and 3, you had proper stock market
15:54:25  <andythenorth> some scenarios, it was entirely a stock trading game
15:54:49  <andythenorth> shorts, pump and dump, domino acquisitions, robbing peter to pay paul
15:54:57  <andythenorth> lots of fun
15:55:17  <Alberth> you need to extend share concepts a lot to make it useful, I agree
15:55:18  <andythenorth> ottd, the shares are so crippled they’re just wasting UI space
15:55:26  <andythenorth> replace with a button ‘buy this company'
15:55:59  <Alberth> some devs may deeply disagree with that
15:56:29  <Alberth> out of authenticity point of view
15:57:54  <andythenorth> fair
15:58:06  <andythenorth> maybe it’s time for the fork :)
15:58:18  <andythenorth> OpenTTD 1 = TTD + stuff
15:58:23  <andythenorth> OpenTTD 2 = NotTTD
15:58:41  <andythenorth> then we can all fall out over what actually goes in OpenTTD 2
15:58:46  <andythenorth> and nothing will ever ship
15:59:10  <peter1138> Come up with a coherent and useful plan...
15:59:23  <peter1138> But "make shares better" isn't one.
15:59:32  <peter1138> Somebody™
16:00:23  <Samu> if i can't buy 100% shares of a human company, i shouldn't 100% buy an AI, at least in multiplayer
16:00:38  <Samu> same rules
16:00:46  <andythenorth> ‘delete shares'
16:00:49  <andythenorth> is a plan
16:00:59  * andythenorth likes deleting
16:01:06  <Alberth> :)
16:01:26  <Samu> i might create yet another game setting for this, :(
16:01:51  <andythenorth> delete timetables while we’re deleting also
16:01:55  <andythenorth> rm [random]
16:02:12  <Milek7> there isn't already a setting for disabling shares?
16:02:13  <andythenorth> run some random mutations, see what’s best :P
16:02:14  <Alberth> Samu: but it was such a nice strategy in TTD
16:02:26  <andythenorth> Milek7: yes
16:02:46  <Samu> yes, the problem here is that you can buy AIs in multiplayer
16:02:59  <Alberth> how is that a problem?
16:03:14  <Samu> should only buy up to 75%
16:03:23  <andythenorth> why?
16:03:33  <andythenorth> purpose of shares is to buy the company
16:03:34  <Samu> to have the same rules
16:04:07  <Samu> treat the AI, like they're HU
16:04:34  <Alberth> any sane human will not buy an AI
16:04:41  <Alberth> as they perform worse
16:05:59  <Samu> I bought an AI by mistake, thinking it would cap ay 75% t.t
16:06:11  <Alberth> :p
16:14:38  <Samu> if (!c->is_ai || c->is_ai && _networking) return cost; //  We can not buy out a real company (temporarily). TODO: well, enable it obviously.
16:14:45  <Samu> let's see if this is enough
16:15:48  <peter1138> But is your fast forward speed limited?
16:17:22  <andythenorth> mine is :P
16:17:32  <andythenorth> boom
16:20:49  <Alberth> unlimited ff speed would much simpler to implement :p
16:23:21  <Samu> this works, but the button doesn't gray out, must fix gui
16:30:20  <Alberth> comment suggests the problem is the other way around
16:31:07  <Samu> i saw it :( bad comment
16:33:37  <Samu> 			this->SetWidgetDisabledState(WID_C_BUY_SHARE, GetAmountOwnedBy(c, INVALID_OWNER) == 0 || 					/* Only 25% left to buy. If the company is human, disable buying it up.. TODO issues! */
16:33:40  <Samu> what issues?
16:34:19  <Alberth> imagine what you have to do for taking over another human company
16:35:18  <Alberth> what should happen to the other player?
16:35:21  <andythenorth> kick em out
16:35:30  <andythenorth> ‘you are no longer playing'
16:35:37  <Samu> move to spectator, i guess
16:35:45  <Samu> or move to the new company
16:36:12  <andythenorth> the more interesting play is to add them to the other company
16:36:30  <andythenorth> then they have to co-operate (or not) with the hostile takeover player
16:36:45  <Samu> add another game setting then :p
16:37:07  <andythenorth> why is infrastructure sharing?
16:37:09  <Alberth> I am quite sure the player taking over my company will see a sudden drop in funds :p
16:38:00  <Samu> a setting which decides what to do when a company buys another, per company
16:38:16  <Alberth> world is shared by definition, I guess
16:38:49  <Samu> or just a server setting
16:39:03  <Samu> global variable , damn, i'm messing up
16:40:27  <Samu> Company 1 buys Company 2
16:40:41  <Samu> Company 1 has set that it allows company 2 to join company 1
16:41:06  <Samu> Company 2 has set that it allows joining other company when being taken over
16:42:05  <Samu> confusing?
16:42:12  <Samu> then forget about it
16:43:08  <Samu> 					/* Only 25% left to buy. If the company is human or AI in multiplayer, disable buying it up.. TODO issues! */ 					(GetAmountOwnedBy(c, INVALID_OWNER) == 1 && (!c->is_ai || c->is_ai && _networking)) ||
16:44:58  <Wolf01> Buying human companies is like merging them, the taken over has the same power of the buyer... I'm for moving the human in spectators, or open a UI to let him decide if wants to be moved in spectators or start a new company
16:46:43  <Milek7> but maybe player/ai don't want to sell company
16:47:02  <Milek7> shares shouldn't be first manually emitted by company?
16:47:16  <Wolf01> Another UI to tell the player "player x wants to take over your company, do you want?"
16:47:31  <Wolf01> Yup, but that will be too much realistic
16:47:46  <Samu> too social
16:48:23  <Samu> i'd have it previously set in the company properties
16:48:44  <Samu> similar to how autorenew is done, per company, not per player
16:52:04  <Samu> if (!c->is_ai || c->is_ai && _networking) return cost; //  We can not buy out a real or AI company in multiplayer (temporarily). TODO: well, enable it obviously.
16:52:08  <Samu> better comment
16:52:29  <Samu> that "(temporarily)" has been how many years?
16:52:38  <andythenorth> enough :)
16:52:55  <Samu> feels out of place
16:52:59  <Samu> with what I'm doing
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16:56:37  <Alberth> it's temporarily, until it's fixed
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16:59:03  <Samu>
17:01:39  <andythenorth> all code is temporary
17:01:50  <Samu> just posted
17:01:55  <andythenorth> the idea that people might still play FIRS in 250 years time would be worse
17:03:28  <supermop> andythenorth: that seems increasingly likely to me
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17:03:41  <kanios666> hi everyone
17:03:46  <Alberth> hi hi
17:03:56  <supermop> and in 250 years we will still be arguing over this or that change to the map array
17:04:05  <Alberth> lol :)
17:04:23  <kanios666> im looking for a grf file    newtown_415.grf
17:04:28  <Alberth> in 250 years, computers will probably decide that on their own
17:04:29  <kanios666> maybe someone have it
17:04:38  <kanios666> i cant find it
17:04:48  <Alberth> do you have an author?
17:04:55  <Alberth> tried google?
17:04:57  <kanios666> i need it to north england map
17:05:00  <kanios666> tried
17:05:03  <kanios666> nothing
17:05:53  <kanios666> only ID of grf
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17:06:31  <kanios666> there isnt info about author
17:07:29  <Alberth>  ?
17:08:27  <kanios666> i play on vpn with my cousin on version 1.2.0
17:09:03  <Alberth> woow, 1.2 :)
17:09:09  <kanios666> :)
17:09:25  <kanios666> he choose that version
17:09:28  <kanios666> i dont know why
17:09:40  <andythenorth> he likes the past :)
17:09:41  <Alberth> seems somewhat very old :)
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17:10:57  <Alberth>  this is reported to work
17:11:44  <kanios666> page cannot be found :(
17:12:11  <kanios666> i cant download it
17:13:22  <Alberth> you could try contacting the owner of the site, orudge
17:13:54  <kanios666> ill try
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17:15:10  <Alberth> or, try to find another scenario or a heightmap of northern england
17:15:19  <Alberth> likely several such maps exist
17:16:40  <Alberth> heightmap doesn't have towns and roads though
17:16:55  <Alberth> or at least none that exist in reality
17:17:32  <Alberth> do you know who created the scenario, you could try asking him as well
17:17:49  <Alberth> maybe he disappeared though
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17:26:32  <Wolf01> There is no escape from destiny
17:41:14  <Alberth> 'destiny' is underspecified, you never know whether you suceeded
17:42:45  <Wolf01> ... just like in my dream...
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18:34:54  <peter1138> Do you get funds when someone buys your shares?
18:35:17  <peter1138> Hmm, I can't even remember how they work. I suspect badly.
18:42:13  <Alberth> if you sell them after the company value raised, you get more money
18:42:44  <Alberth> them=shares of another company
18:42:47  <Eddi|zuHause> shares are pointless and should be removed from the game
18:42:57  <Eddi|zuHause> </andy>
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18:44:55  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i vaguely remember once trying that out, and it didn't seem to work
18:45:21  <Eddi|zuHause> meaning buying some company's shares and then checking their bank balance whether it changed
18:45:48  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27818 trunk/src/lang/greek.txt (2017-03-22 19:45:40 +0100 )
18:45:49  <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints:
18:45:50  <DorpsGek> greek: 36 changes by kyrm
18:46:11  <Eddi|zuHause> also, companies valued at 2$ most of the time makes it useless even if it did work
18:47:28  <Alkel_U3> that's really unfair considering the starting capital is a loan and not money from investors. I like how RRT series do it but that's perhaps too complex to be introduced into TT
18:47:31  <andythenorth> given how easy it is to print money with pax, I’m not going to bother buying shares as a cash generation strategy :P
18:49:32  <supermop> investor capital is sort of like a loan anyway
18:51:22  <Eddi|zuHause> Alkel_U3: i always wished i could play RRT with shares disabled
18:52:21  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, there have been many suggestions of an improved share system, maybe even a few patches
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19:26:40  <Samu> crap, i made a server that was supposedly hard for trains
19:26:49  <Samu> but they build 2 engines
19:27:18  <Samu> really hate this feature
19:29:20  <Samu> i wanted players to plan their route better
19:29:26  <Samu> not build a 2nd engine
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19:31:17  <andythenorth> can’t beat the game :)
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19:39:49  <Samu> gonna try remove this feature in some patch, wondering if it's easy or not
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21:55:44  <Eddi|zuHause> if you can't beat them, make a training montage and try to beat them again towards the end of the movie
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22:55:08  <peter1138> oh that's better, i can see again
22:55:38  <Wolf01> O_o
22:57:22  <peter1138> glasses were a bit muddy from mountain biking :p
22:59:24  <Samu> I'm planning yet another game setting that disallows multi-engines on a single train
22:59:30  <Samu> allow/disallow
22:59:35  <peter1138> oh great
22:59:48  <Samu> but i see a lot of newgrf code callback stuff in the way
23:00:06  <peter1138> pretty sure there was a setting for it
23:00:11  <Wolf01> Good luck with articulated engines or multiheaded ones
23:01:01  <Samu> that part is easy, the hard part for me is understanding what the heck are these callbacks
23:02:19  <peter1138> i wouldn't think you need to care about them
23:02:44  <Samu> if (callback  < 0xFD) error = GetGRFStringID(head->GetGRFID(), 0xD000 + callback);
23:02:48  <Samu> english plz
23:03:26  <Samu> if (callback >= 0x100) ErrorUnknownCallbackResult(head->GetGRFID(), CBID_TRAIN_ALLOW_WAGON_ATTACH, callback);
23:03:54  <Wolf01> If the callback result is less than 0xFD then set the error value to the string taken from the grf at 0xD000 + callback value
23:04:52  <Samu> oh, the grf provides the error message?
23:04:53  <peter1138> you don't need to care about any of that
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23:07:49  <Samu> if (t->IsEngine()) return_cmd_error(STR_ERROR_I_HATE_MULTI_ENGINE_TRAINS)
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23:23:11  <Wolf01> 'night
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23:56:41  <Samu> STR_ERROR_CAN_T_MOVE_VEHICLE                                    :{WHITE}Can't move vehicle... STR_ERROR_ATTACHING_ENGINE_NOT_ALLOWED                          :{WHITE}Attaching engine is not allowed
23:56:46  <Samu> is this good english?
23:57:01  <Samu> attaching engine or engines?
23:58:34  <Samu> Attaching multiple engines are not allowed?
23:58:55  <Samu> halp at englisho, ploz
23:59:17  <ST2> "Attaching" is an action, so it's "is"
23:59:28  <Samu> oki, thx

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