Log for #openttd on 29th March 2017:
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00:09:29  <Samu> cyas goodnight
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09:17:02  <Samu> hi
09:19:04  <crem> hi Samu!
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09:43:03  <Wolf01> o/
09:45:57  <crem> \o
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10:31:42  <Wolf01> nice, really nice
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10:33:06  <Wolf01> BTW, I'm going to redesign the toolbar switch, it's too limited to have just 2 toolbars on low res...
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10:41:31  <peter1138> ok
10:41:50  <peter1138> i see two toolbars on the left & right in some pictures
10:43:39  <Wolf01> before it was like that
10:44:05  <crem> That's not lowres.
10:44:11  <crem> 320x200 is!
10:44:30  <peter1138> yeah he means small screens
10:45:03  <peter1138> funny that juanjo has a patch to make all the icons be text strings
10:45:05  <crem> Like smartwatch screen?
10:45:10  <peter1138> which is what we had originally but moved away from :p
10:45:17  <peter1138> like smartphone screens
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11:06:11  <Wolf01> Yeah, game set as low res, not display
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11:14:38  <peter1138> what setting is that?
11:19:55  <Wolf01> Fullscreen?
11:20:04  <UncleCJ> Nice long lunch with OpenTTD between hard work sessions :-) I noticed the version of the Stockholm scenario I loaded used Windows backslashes in some path, anyone familiar with how that ingame content is updated/fixed?
11:25:20  <peter1138> switching to fullscreen has a low res detection?
11:25:45  <Wolf01> You can change the rendered resolution instead of the window size
11:26:58  <Wolf01> For example I can nicely play with 1152x864 to see things a bit bigger without distorting all the graphics :P
11:27:16  <Wolf01> Or I can just move my head towards the screen
11:27:39  <peter1138> i think there's cross-conversation here
11:28:20  <peter1138> i was talking about the 2 vertical toolbars
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11:29:07  <Wolf01> That's just another arrangement
11:29:40  <Wolf01> With some more buttons added for DEL and CTRL
11:30:27  <peter1138> yeah but is it in openttd or some other patch?
11:30:31  <Wolf01> It still have the same problem of the vanilla toolbar on small screen/small window/low res setting
11:30:44  <Wolf01> Android branch
11:30:54  <peter1138> right
11:31:01  <peter1138> so that is what causes the 2 toolbars
11:31:19  <peter1138> not "game set as low res" which it seemed you were saying
11:31:46  <peter1138> and indeed that 1024x768 is not low res
11:31:53  <Wolf01> I was talking about the 2nd toolbar switch (the button with the 2 arrows)
11:31:55  <peter1138> what is this world coming to :(
11:32:17  <peter1138> you were but then posted the android pic :p
11:32:31  <peter1138> i should get to work
11:32:31  <Samu> i didn't know i could stack overlapping trackdirs
11:32:37  <peter1138> stack?
11:32:45  <Samu> yah
11:32:48  <peter1138> what do you mean/
11:33:02  <Wolf01> Blow up reservations
11:33:13  <Samu> direction X NE and directo X SW
11:33:27  <Samu> i can stack both, and i get a weird trackdir
11:33:40  <Samu> direction X NE SW kind of crap
11:33:45  <Samu> but it works
11:34:38  <Samu> it's like the ship can move in both directions for pathfinding purposes, but it really doesn't
11:35:37  <Samu> but this makes it simple, i don't need to use  pathfind twice
11:35:50  <Samu> wish I had known this first
11:37:03  <Samu> not using pathfind twice really saves cpu resources
11:37:12  <Wolf01> BTW, the gui I showed is good for small screen/small window/low res setting, at least you won't get a lot of overlapping buttons
11:38:17  <Samu> this also means I don't need a CYapfOriginTileTwoWayT, only the CYapfOriginTileT
11:38:37  <Wolf01> And one of the 2 can be fixed with base functions, while the other one changes with the switch
11:38:52  <Samu> this "TwoWay" either was misleading me, or i misunderstood its purpose
11:39:14  <Wolf01> While now the switch changes the whole toolbar and the left part arrangement is just repeated
11:40:37  <Wolf01> I was planning to change the switch button with a 2 left-right buttons and switch between more toolbars arrangements, not just 2
11:43:07  <Samu> ah, they're trackdirbits, not trackdir
11:43:17  <Samu> but still... weird that I can do that
11:46:33  <Samu> i also learned a few more things, i don't need to edit yapf_node.ship.hpp at all
11:47:58  <Samu> editing a v2, will post it shortly
11:54:40  <peter1138> Wolf01, not one button to cycle?
11:55:20  <Wolf01> No, or if you want just one it must not be kept in a pressed state
11:55:46  <peter1138> sure
11:55:58  <peter1138> button not a toggle button
11:58:25  <Wolf01> It might change the icon to show the current arrangement, like 1/3, 2/3... 1/5, but I don't like that, and with an icon it might be tricky
11:58:55  <Wolf01> Also if you have more than 3 arrangements you need a lot of clicks to get back to the previous one
11:59:12  <Wolf01> That's why I'm for +1/-1 or </> buttons
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12:00:14  <Samu>
12:00:19  <Samu> posted v2
12:00:24  <Samu> peter1138:
12:00:27  <Wolf01> They might be thin, so they only take the same space of a single button
12:00:50  <peter1138> isn't that hard to press?
12:00:53  <peter1138> well
12:01:09  <Wolf01> We have smaller buttons
12:01:43  <peter1138> k
12:02:10  <Wolf01> Just look at the date widgets in the SE toolbar
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12:57:59  <crem> dodn't!
13:02:13  <Wolf01> What?
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13:13:59  <eekee> i didn't!
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13:39:19  <__ln__> so... what language will we choose as the main language on this channel after brexit?
13:40:18  <Wolf01> Klingon
13:40:55  <crem> Ithkuil
13:50:54  <planetmaker> esperanto
13:51:14  <Wolf01> That won't work
13:51:15  <planetmaker> or maybe latin. Might be used more wide-spread
13:52:15  <Wolf01> I could try with Furlan
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13:53:16  <Wolf01> But I miss all the accents in the keyboard :(
13:54:15  <crem> Let's talk brainfuck or whitespace.
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14:20:00  <UncleCJ> ln: American?
14:21:05  <UncleCJ> I just checked out the old source code - seems the svn crashed sometime seven years ago or something. I understand my old classmate was one of the initial developers
14:21:48  <UncleCJ> Mhmmm... "In 2003, Ludvig Strigeus announced that he intended to reverse engineer Transport Tycoon Deluxe and convert the game to C. In 2004, this re-engineered Transport Tycoon Deluxe was released and named OpenTTD"
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14:23:26  <Rubidium> C++
14:24:10  <LordAro> Rubidium: i feel like it definitely used to be C
14:24:14  <UncleCJ> Oh hai Rubidium, just looking for you :-)
14:24:18  <UncleCJ> "Brought to you by: darkvater, rubidium85, strigeus"
14:27:18  <peter1138> i wonder what anna meredith smokes
14:27:31  <UncleCJ> Oh it used to... and it's fun archeology to dig around in that stuff
14:27:38  <UncleCJ>;a=log;pg=226
14:28:11  <UncleCJ> (I'm also doing an svn-git conversion of a very old repo in the office, so it's kind of related)
14:28:54  <UncleCJ> ... and someone already did one of these:
14:33:05  <peter1138> a while ago
14:33:11  <peter1138> though probably not that many commiets since then
14:33:14  <peter1138> or commits
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14:34:30  <Alberth> o/
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14:39:23  <Wolf01> o/
14:39:41  <UncleCJ> peter1138: I just think it's awesome to see the craft of software development visualized like that, so many thoughts, so much work, not only to expand but to reshape the project. Plus it's open source, Ludvig is hardly noticeable among all the other contributors
14:42:55  <LordAro> @seen Ludde
14:42:55  <DorpsGek> LordAro: Ludde was last seen in #openttd 4 years, 37 weeks, 3 days, 7 hours, 39 minutes, and 34 seconds ago: <ludde> hej
14:43:10  <peter1138> that recently? heh
14:44:05  <Samu> woah, editing npf was much much easier than yapf
14:44:32  <Samu> already have it finding depots for npf
14:44:37  <Samu> still missing opf
14:44:41  <Samu> must take a look
14:44:42  <Wolf01> Mmmh weather is getting hot
14:45:20  <Wolf01> Not warm... hot
14:46:09  <Wolf01> The wind is like a hairdryer
14:46:35  <Samu> it's 19ºC here
14:46:54  <Samu> well 20ºC, just now
14:47:02  <Wolf01> 24°C here
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14:57:58  <__ln__> Samu: you're using the wrong degree character º while Wolf01 is using the correct °.
14:58:28  <Samu> :(
14:58:37  <__ln__> you're using:
14:58:54  <Samu> my keyboard doesn't have that
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14:59:22  <Samu> ª º
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15:00:12  <Samu> oops
15:01:04  <UncleCJ> LordAro: I have a fond memory of Ludde coding at the university lab... I commented something like "A minimal bittorrent client, for windows, and closed source? What a boring project?!"
15:01:31  <LordAro> haha
15:01:34  <UncleCJ> Rarely have I been more mistaken, except the time when I was dead sure youtube would fail spectacularly
15:02:10  <peter1138> It did, later.
15:02:10  * UncleCJ is fond of being spectacularly mistaken occasionally
15:04:50  <Samu> 90 deg doesn't work for opf?
15:06:13  <Eddi|zuHause> converting an svn repo to git? isn't there like a git-svn interface that you can just check out the repo with,and do any further work off that checkout (cloning, pushing, etc.)?
15:07:05  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause:  yes, there is git-svn
15:07:18  <peter1138> yeah it mostly works
15:07:27  <peter1138> unless you didn't know about trunk etc when you set it up
15:07:49  <LordAro> git-svn still has to convert to git format on first clone
15:08:03  <LordAro> (unless you only do it to a certain depth or w/e)
15:08:26  <Alberth>  <-- Eddi|zuHause
15:09:07  <Alberth> just skip the steps involving bitbucket :)
15:09:43  <Alberth> empty directories are a problem
15:09:51  <Eddi|zuHause> "if you’re reading this guide, that person is probably you"
15:12:34  <UncleCJ> Eddi|zuHause: Yeah, there is, but it's more involved than that, like if we want to keep using svn, how are the credentials stored, the layout is very non-standard and have changed a couple of times during the years, multiple components... 2900 commits over 9 years
15:14:13  <UncleCJ> I could of course just do recent history of the trunk, but where's the fun in that? I found some tutorial how to do it step-wise and graft the histories together... now I'm down to a 370 MB git repo, which is not too shabby
15:14:43  <UncleCJ> I noticed OpenTTD just made separate repos for the different svn branches, that is one way too
15:14:47  <Eddi|zuHause> well, you want to preserve as much history as possible
15:15:22  <Eddi|zuHause> OpenTTD is a bit special because it wants to keep SVN as the main repo
15:16:21  <Alberth> that's addressed too in the tutorial
15:16:27  <Eddi|zuHause> for your in-house development that's probably not a useful goal
15:18:25  <peter1138> yeah i'd not keep svn if it was myself
15:19:31  <Alberth> depends on how git-minded you are, bitbucket aims for companies, where not everybody or everything can switch to git instantly
15:21:03  <peter1138> i guess it does require more coordination
15:21:14  <peter1138> at least with svn committing to trunk is easy
15:28:02  <Alberth> you need to do "git pull" every now and then
15:32:16  <__ln__>
15:33:25  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: oooold
15:33:41  <__ln__> :(
15:34:37  <Eddi|zuHause> [28.03.17 21:18] <Eddi|zuHause>
15:36:37  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, my cats are usually uninterested in what's on my screen, except for the mouse cursor
15:37:27  <Wolf01> My cat was really uninterested on what was on my screen, he loved to just sleep on my lap
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15:55:44  <Samu> i dont understand how the original pathfinder works, it's too different than the other two
15:59:11  <Alberth> it uses some heuristics, ie guesses for common situations. That makes it quicker, but also less accurate
15:59:34  <Alberth> never looked at it in detail though
16:00:21  <Samu> heuristics? what is that?
16:00:23  <Alberth> ever played the Deluxe version, or RCT1 or 2, or Locomotion, or the new mobile transport tycoon?
16:00:34  <Alberth> they all use it, I think
16:01:39  <Alberth> it's sort of a table with common answers, based on very simple criteria
16:03:14  <Alberth> it could be, for example, "walk in the direction of the axis with the longest distance"
16:03:41  <Alberth> Again, I am just making up this example, I don't know what OPF does
16:04:40  <Alberth> it generally works, as most people make tracks that way
16:05:05  <Alberth> you can however also construct connections that fail on that heuristic
16:05:45  <Alberth> real path finders like NPF and YAPF do a proper distance calculation, and always come up with the correct answer
16:05:57  <Alberth> they are however much slower
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16:30:36  <frosch123> "I was searching the web for information on Germany and saw your great post here:" <- ottd spam is best spam
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16:36:11  <Wolf01> Quak
16:36:28  <frosch123> hoi
16:37:07  <Alberth> hola
16:37:45  <Alberth> from Germany in general to an ancient OpenTTD train set...   how do you do that :p
16:40:39  <frosch123> Alberth: it links to wikipedia/germany
16:41:43  <Alberth> :O
16:53:27  <Samu> how to make the opf do a FindDepotData :(
16:53:42  <Wolf01> Call the function
16:54:14  <Samu> it doesn't even know if the ship is lost
16:54:21  <Samu> if it's going the right way
16:54:49  <Samu> i think it's possible, but i still don't quite get how this works
16:54:56  <Wolf01> Why don't you instead make another pathfinder based on YAPF and leave other code as is?
16:55:38  <peter1138> this stuff is why i was suggesting to rip out the non-yapf pathfinders
16:55:44  <peter1138> having to reimplement everything.. :S
16:57:31  <Wolf01> Because people is nostalgic and want to feel how it was to play with old things
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16:59:42  <frosch123> i like npf, it always comes to use when yapf is desync-broken and noone can fix it
16:59:51  <peter1138> o_O
17:00:05  <peter1138> still desyncs :(
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17:00:17  <frosch123> generally, if something is broken with yapf, it helps to check whether npf works
17:00:28  <frosch123> to see whether the issue is with yapf, or something from the outside
17:00:48  <peter1138> hmm using pianoteq for openttd's music
17:00:48  <frosch123> peter1138: i think the railtype fix was only 2016
17:00:57  <peter1138> only works for the scott joplin set :D
17:01:02  <peter1138> what railtype fix?
17:01:23  <peter1138> bear in mind i've not played much since about 2008 :p
17:01:33  <frosch123> yapf used to consider track segments with different tracktypes as one segment in some cases, which resulted in desyncs
17:01:40  <peter1138> ahhh
17:01:57  <peter1138> i always wanted to have the signal code check railtype
17:02:08  <peter1138> but that was just spiteful to openttdcoop :p
17:02:09  <frosch123> coop would riot :p
17:03:19  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think that would work right with railtypes that are "incompatible", but have some common "ancestor"
17:03:20  <frosch123> i assume infra-sharing disabled signals checking ownership
17:03:33  <frosch123> would be funny otherwise
17:04:36  <Eddi|zuHause> remember when you could build depots at AI stations and crash or block their vehicles?
17:05:06  <peter1138> the whole "back of the depot" trick?
17:05:15  <peter1138> amongst others
17:05:35  <Eddi|zuHause> no, not back of depot
17:05:40  <peter1138> (which scares me when i see in these patch packs code that removes rear of depot checks... "trains don't go into rear of depot" yeah... sure)
17:05:55  <Eddi|zuHause> just simply put a depot, buy a jinty (oh the memories) and let it go
17:06:05  <Eddi|zuHause> it would crash with the AI vehicles
17:06:13  <peter1138> heh
17:06:23  <peter1138> not on their track but can still collide
17:06:25  <Eddi|zuHause> because the crash check would work across owners
17:06:41  <Eddi|zuHause> and the vehicle can move a bit over the end of the track
17:07:46  <peter1138> hmm, annoying that pmidi doesn't send all-notes-off when it finishes :S
17:11:21  <peter1138> oh, apparently it does
17:11:28  <peter1138> maybe only when it finishes cleanly :S
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17:14:19  <peter1138> well
17:14:22  <peter1138> SIGINT does it
17:14:25  <peter1138> but SIGTERM not :(
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17:24:55  <peter1138> usual problem with midi, if you don't have the exact same instrument set and synthesizer, it all sounds terrible
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17:36:55  <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r27834 /trunk/src/music (extmidi.cpp extmidi.h) (2017-03-29 19:36:46 +0200 )
17:36:56  <DorpsGek> -Change: Parse extmidi command string for parameters to pass on.
17:39:53  <Samu> i dunno how to do this for opf, it was probably done before, opf used to manage trains, right?
17:40:11  <Samu> when was the last time opf was selectable in openttd?
17:40:14  <Samu> for trains
17:45:43  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27835 trunk/src/lang/norwegian_bokmal.txt (2017-03-29 19:45:37 +0200 )
17:45:44  <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints:
17:45:45  <DorpsGek> norwegian (bokmal): 37 changes by eirik174
17:49:34  <peter1138> it's a bit jumbled
17:49:55  <peter1138> @commit r2635
17:50:02  <peter1138> well i dunno
17:50:12  <Samu> ok, screw it
17:50:27  <Samu> i was trying to make opf search for depots
17:51:15  <Samu> already done it for npf and yapf, missing opf
17:51:19  <Samu> t.t
17:51:25  <peter1138> the old pathfinder isn't even the original one
17:51:37  <peter1138>     (svn r2635) Fix: [ntp/misc] Improve the old pathfinder. Changed it to A* instead of Dijkstra.
17:52:11  <Eddi|zuHause> ntp is not the original pathfinder
17:52:44  <Eddi|zuHause> it's "new train pathfinding"
17:54:51  <Samu> TPFMode1 :( isee
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18:12:30  <Samu> oh well, too noob for this
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18:41:39  <Samu> why can't i put a FindDepotData on opf_ship.cpp
18:42:17  <Samu> Severity	Code	Description	Project	File	Line	Suppression State Error (active)		identifier "FindDepotData" is undefined	openttd	d:\OpenTTD\trunk\src\pathfinder\opf\opf_ship.cpp	216
18:44:21  <Samu> i don't understand includes
18:44:31  <Samu> why do I have to include it twic
18:44:33  <Samu> twice
18:44:37  <Samu> #include "../pathfinder_type.h"
18:44:52  <Samu> in opf_ship.h and opf_ship.cpp
18:45:16  <Wolf01> Because headers are used very wrongly
18:45:42  <Samu> what's a header?
18:45:49  <Wolf01> Fucking god
18:45:55  <Wolf01> .h <- headers
18:46:20  <Samu> ah
18:46:32  <Samu> sorry i'm noob
18:46:39  <Wolf01> They should only have the declaration, not implementation
18:47:24  <Samu> ok, i removed it from the .h
18:47:30  <Samu> it's only on .cpp now, it's working
18:47:40  <Samu> didn't have to include twice after all
18:48:52  <Samu> ship_cmd.cpp can still have access to FindDepotData OPFShipFindNearestDepot(const Ship *v, int max_distance);
18:48:54  <Samu> good, all good
18:49:06  <Wolf01> You should include it only in files where it's specifically used
18:51:03  <Samu> all this just for a placeholder function
18:51:10  <Samu> it's not even implemented
18:51:12  <Samu> lel
18:53:09  <Wolf01> Compiler shit... you can't declare a function after its use, but you can declare it and implement it after its use
18:53:36  <Alberth> until you try to inline the code :p
18:54:24  <Samu> 	return FindDepotData();
18:54:28  <Samu> is the only thing it does
18:54:30  <Samu> lol
18:55:17  <Samu> until i figure a way to do it for real in OPF, it stays like that
18:55:59  <Wolf01> Just use "FindDepotData()"?
19:00:20  <Samu> here it is, the patch
19:01:11  <Samu> line 82, :p
19:01:59  <Samu> and line 314 is where it's called
19:02:42  <Samu> line 354 will handle it better
19:03:05  <Samu> it resorts to the distance manhattan search method
19:11:22  <Samu> uploaded v3, yay
19:11:39  <Samu> so who wants to do the opf part for me? :p
19:12:33  <Wolf01> Everyone
19:13:31  <Wolf01> If everyone contributes with a character, then you will only have to rearrange them in the right order, like  puzzle
19:13:41  <Wolf01> I'll start: =
19:13:54  <Rubidium> 
19:23:20  <Wolf01> Since not many people would like to contribute (is free), here is another one: ;
19:24:22  <glx> I give ( and )
19:27:10  <Alberth> x & y    look needed too
19:34:56  <Samu> :)
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21:15:27  <peter1138> evening
21:18:37  <Wolf01> Oh hi
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21:31:59  <peter1138> hmm
21:32:01  <peter1138> what did i miss?
21:32:53  <peter1138> oh, nothing much
21:33:00  <Samu> i need help to do a FindDepotData for opf
21:33:04  <Samu> :(
21:35:08  <Wolf01> Don't?
21:36:01  <peter1138> forget opf
21:41:12  <peter1138> always fun when a lump of mud goes up your nose
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22:05:00  <FLHerne> OPF does have the advantage of being actually readable
22:05:27  <peter1138> :)
22:06:09  <Wolf01> I want to try to make an AI for OTTD... with every kind of problem, just to piss off Samu ;)
22:06:54  <Wolf01> Like "do well for 5 years then suddenly become stupid as a brick"
22:07:46  <Wolf01> Or try to get in all the weirdest situations, like blocked ships
22:07:56  <Wolf01> Too distant airports
22:08:57  <Eddi|zuHause> too bad i wouldn't read any of his complaints
22:15:00  <Wolf01> Speaking of ignore, I miss you on steam
22:17:37  <Eddi|zuHause> lets discuss that some other time
22:17:44  <Wolf01> XD
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22:22:12  <Wolf01> Ha! There must be some strong wind XD
22:24:10  <peter1138> my mountain bike would be alright
22:24:21  <peter1138> it's about 20 years old and weighs a bit more than modern bikes :p
22:29:48  <Wolf01> At least it should be more durable ;)
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22:46:25  <Samu> we need an ai that makes use of rivers, canals, aqueducts
22:46:35  <Samu> there's none
22:47:05  <Samu> and locks
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23:01:28  <Wolf01> 'night
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