Log for #openttd on 9th April 2017:
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00:01:37  <DannyK_> somebody still here?
00:14:56  <FLHerne> DannyK_: Yes...
00:15:04  <FLHerne> (not for very long, it's the morning now)
00:19:02  * Mazur isn't.
00:35:50  <DannyK_> FLHerne: could you please take a look at my openttd pic?
00:36:08  <FLHerne> Which?
00:36:22  <DannyK_> FLHerne:
00:36:41  <FLHerne> | Don't ask to ask, just ask | is in the topic
00:37:05  <FLHerne> Same reason as before
00:37:43  <FLHerne> To a block signal, any area of track that's joined together and not separated by signals is a block
00:39:02  <FLHerne> The area you've marked is all joined together (via the junctions at each ends) without going through a signal
00:39:27  <DannyK_> FLHerne: So, if I create 3 or hundreds of parallel tracks, they will all light RED, right?
00:39:48  <FLHerne> DannyK_: If you arrange them like that, yes
00:40:07  <FLHerne> (and that's correct)
00:40:27  <DannyK_> FLHerne: I think I'm starting to grasp it, finally!
00:40:39  <FLHerne> Remember, in some circumstances (and depending on settings) trains can reverse at various places
00:41:06  <FLHerne> Imagine a second train approaches the signal you've circled from the left
00:41:43  <FLHerne> Hm, not quite, in your case
00:42:37  <FLHerne> If a train with no length (:P) was allowed past that signal, it could reverse at the next signal (just past the junction) and then collide with the one that's already there
00:43:34  <DannyK_> FLHerne: I get it
00:43:37  <FLHerne> If that next signal was a tile further along, it could actually happen with a real train (the signal calculations don't care about that corner case)
00:44:26  <FLHerne> If this sort of thing is causing you problems, try using path signals (the tall ones at the right of the signal toolbar)
00:44:57  <FLHerne> They're a bit cleverer and take into account where trains are actually going
00:45:59  <DannyK_> FLHerne: They work according to individual tracks, not blocks, right?
00:46:03  <FLHerne> Yes
00:46:58  <DannyK_> FLHerne: Depots also divide the tracks into blocks, right?
00:47:17  <FLHerne> I don't think so
00:48:34  <FLHerne> No, just tested
00:49:18  <FLHerne> From the PoV of trains *leaving* the depot, they behave as if there was a path signal at the exit
00:49:46  <FLHerne> Otherwise, they don't really affect signalling at all
00:50:15  <FLHerne> (if there are multiple lines going in, they join on the tile in front of the depot, and form one block)
00:55:29  * FLHerne -> sleep
00:55:35  <FLHerne> Good morning...
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04:24:40  <snadge> ... lol @ 1.6gb soundfont version of original music
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09:23:54  <Samu> hello
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10:00:56  <quiznilo> there are terabyte sound fonts that ship on external HDs
10:02:52  <quiznilo> gotta get those pedal sounds, and steel resonance just right
10:03:06  <quiznilo>
10:03:27  <quiznilo> the dude left anyway... *sigh*
10:05:21  <quiznilo> I need to figure out how to check when trains and cars are going to be available in newgfrs... it's 1909 and I need to know when I can transport steel at > 35mph
10:09:07  <quiznilo> oh... no steel in FIRS, I forgot
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10:29:13  <FLHerne> quiznilo: I don't think there's a way to check that in-game
10:29:36  <FLHerne> quiznilo: Also, it's randomized by up to a few years, so you can't look it up precisely ;-)
10:29:39  <quiznilo> yes, sadly.  It's a moot point, because steel doesn't even exist in the game
10:30:07  <FLHerne> Well, "Metal" in FIRS is pretty much the same thing (produced by steel works, can be turned into goods among other things)?
10:32:31  <FLHerne> Also, yay, I finally have interconnected passenger services to every one of the 105 towns in my world
10:32:46  <FLHerne> Time to refocus on freight
10:32:50  <quiznilo> achievement unlocked
10:34:08  <Eddi|zuHause> i can never focus on freight
10:34:16  <Eddi|zuHause> passengers are just so overwhelming
10:34:24  <FLHerne>
10:34:46  <FLHerne> There's a really handy patch that adds a multiplier for pax/mail volumes
10:35:02  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
10:35:05  <quiznilo> nice network
10:35:28  <quiznilo> passengers is more money if done right... no pulling around empty trains
10:35:44  <Eddi|zuHause> but when i want to start a new game after a few years, i have to re-learn how to compile that patch in :p
10:36:12  <Eddi|zuHause> earning money is not the problem
10:36:13  <quiznilo> oh, I can help
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10:36:23  <quiznilo> compile a patch in, that is
10:36:27  <FLHerne> quiznilo: If you fiddle about with station-refitting, you can load freight both ways ;-)
10:36:31  <Eddi|zuHause> the problem is that with cargodist, you really have to make an effort to transport ALL the passengers
10:36:38  <Eddi|zuHause> can't have them piling up at stations
10:36:50  <FLHerne> (although keeping it roughly balanced can be a pain)
10:37:06  <quiznilo> that's more of a possibility with FIRS, two way freight trains
10:37:12  <quiznilo> there is that
10:37:53  <quiznilo> *adds another chemical ship*
10:38:51  <Samu> eua is provoking a war with north korea... ww3 starting soon :(
10:39:11  <Samu> who would have thought it would be trump and not hillary clinton
10:41:19  <Eddi|zuHause> "The Rhine bridge in W├Ârth will be closed due to a demonstration against unnecessary closing of traffic infrastructure" how self-referential :p
10:41:39  <Samu> oslo was attacked?
10:41:54  <Samu> :( this europe is becoming 3rd world
11:16:13  <_dp_> quiznilo, you can cheat date into future and check intro dates
11:16:31  <quiznilo> clever
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11:52:02  <Alberth> o/
11:52:13  <quiznilo> mornin'
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12:04:46  <Alberth> o/
12:05:48  <frosch123> hoi
12:09:06  <LordAro> quak
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12:11:07  <peter1138> moooning
12:11:47  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i unify the holy roman empire and get like 8 achivements simultaneously...
12:13:16  <Alberth> a good days work :)
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13:07:15  <Eddi|zuHause> more like half a year :p
13:07:31  <Eddi|zuHause> or even more...
13:07:45  <Eddi|zuHause> they released like 3 major version updates inbetween
13:08:32  <Eddi|zuHause> almost a year, i think
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14:29:53  <peter1138> ooh a ufo
14:30:00  <peter1138> wonder how long it sticks around if there's no track
14:30:15  <peter1138> oh
14:30:19  <peter1138> it landed on the sea
14:30:20  <peter1138> heh
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14:52:04  <_DannyK> Hello everyone
14:53:30  <_DannyK> Could someone please take a look at my gif and let me know if I understand the concept?
14:53:39  <_DannyK>
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14:58:22  <Alberth> _DannyK: correct
14:59:22  <_DannyK> Alberth: thank you
14:59:45  <Alberth> double direction is quite error prone, and doesn't have much throughput, it's simpler and better to use uni-directional signals if you can
15:00:19  <Alberth> in particular with path signals :)
15:00:46  <_DannyK> Alberth: what are uni-directional signals? isn't that what I used on the gif?
15:01:17  <Alberth> uni-directional signals are signals that allow passage only from one side
15:01:42  <_DannyK> Alberth: Ah, one way, I suppose?
15:01:48  <Alberth> the gif shows bi-directional signals, trains can go through from either side
15:01:55  <_DannyK> Alberth: yes that's right
15:02:12  <Alberth> "one way" is used too for uni-directional :)
15:02:40  <_DannyK> Alberth: I wish there was option to enable visualisation of blocks during track design ...
15:03:39  <FLHerne> _DannyK: Just stop using block signals, then you don't have to worry about it ;-)
15:04:03  <_DannyK> FLHerne: hi, how are you? got some sleep? :)
15:04:38  <Alberth> In general, a block is either a simple straight stretch between two signals, or it's a junction "surrounded" by signals
15:04:39  <FLHerne> There are very few situations where block signals are actually better than path ones for achieving something
15:04:41  <FLHerne> Alright
15:05:04  <Samu> orly
15:05:06  <FLHerne> (and those tend to be weird magic signal-logic that you probably don't want to bother with currently)
15:05:10  <_DannyK> FLHerne: I like to use them not only because they are from original TT, but also because I like to understand stuff thoroughly ...
15:05:29  <FLHerne> _DannyK: Fair enough
15:05:41  <Alberth> so while the visualization may be of use in the beginning, you'll soon get the hang of it, and don't need it any more
15:06:07  <FLHerne> I just get worried about the perception that OTTD signalling is hard/buggy/inflexible/whatever
15:06:22  <Samu> it's hard
15:06:25  <FLHerne> Which some people seem to get
15:06:25  <Alberth> /me picks whatever :p
15:06:37  <_DannyK> FLHerne: I'd rather say, my mind is buggy/inflexible/whatever
15:06:58  <FLHerne> _DannyK: When you've got standard block signals figured out, have a look at
15:07:07  <Samu> block signals vs junctions = random stuff
15:07:16  <Alberth> euhm, don't :p    it's pure magic :p
15:07:25  <FLHerne> (taking the slightly odd block-size rules and doing something useful but very weird with them)
15:07:53  <Alberth> _DannyK: it might help to take this in small steps, do a limited number of signals and use them
15:08:26  <Alberth> you might run into some area where your signalling isn't enough, then extend
15:08:39  <Samu> i don't know how the white/yellow strip signs work
15:09:04  <Alberth> if you try to do all signals at the same time, it's harder
15:09:54  <Alberth> Samu: until you join openttdcoop, you don't need to :)
15:09:54  * _DannyK eating
15:11:20  * FLHerne tends to throw away tidiness/efficiency of signalling away in favour of aesthetics anyway
15:28:51  <_DannyK> Alberth: what did you mean by saying that double direction signals don't have much troughput?
15:34:13  <peter1138> Samu, ship path caching
15:35:39  <Alberth> _DannyK: assume a single track that is used in both directions.
15:36:01  <_DannyK> Alberth: ah
15:36:19  <Alberth> once a train enters that track from one side, it must go all the way to the other side before a train from the other side can use it
15:36:44  <Alberth> double direction signals can also cause deadlock
15:37:30  <peter1138> We should've gone through with the plan and removed block signals :p
15:37:34  <Alberth> if you put a double signal in the middle of a single track, both sides are "safe", so trains can enter from both sides upto the signal position
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15:38:05  <Alberth> then however, neither train can go any further until the other train leaves
15:38:32  <Alberth> which never happens :p
15:39:18  <Alberth> wouldn't removal of block signals break all existing savegames ?  :)
15:40:51  <Alberth> danny: in other words, double direction signal is quite useless
15:42:40  <_DannyK> Alberth: I understand, thank you for explaining
15:45:34  <Alberth> double direction path signal fixes the deadlock problem by giving one side priority
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15:47:38  <_DannyK> Alberth: didn't know, thanks
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15:48:17  <Alberth> double direction path signal is not better in throughput, so still rarely used
15:48:18  <Samu> i'm not doing anything regarding ship path caching :(
15:48:44  <Alberth> standard solution is to make a dedicated track for each direction of traffic, and then you're done
15:49:06  <Alberth> (until you have so much traffic it won't fit at a single line :p )
15:49:21  <_DannyK> Alberth: haha
15:49:48  <_DannyK> Alberth: and then ... my exotic junction nightmare begins
15:50:00  <Alberth> if you play with breakdown enabled, you reach that point fairly quickly
15:50:43  <Alberth> junctions aren't very difficult wrt signalling, you just have a lot of tracks to deal with
15:51:27  <Alberth> uni-directional tracks are the simplest
15:51:52  <Alberth> simplest junction is to connect all incoming lines at one point, and from there go to all outgoing lines
15:52:17  <Alberth> works, but you get all traffic at that merged track, and it runs full quickly
15:52:52  <Alberth> so instead, for each incoming line, split traffic towards all outgoing directions
15:53:24  <Alberth> that scales much better, but had a lot of intermediate tracks
15:53:33  <Alberth> *has
15:53:43  <_DannyK> Alberth: and it took one sentence to clear it up ... right there at wiki ... "Any and all track tiles physically reachable from the signal up to the next signal on that track are counted as the same block, regardless if there are multiple branches."
15:54:19  <Alberth> it's even more than physically reachable
15:54:28  <Alberth> it just needs "connected"
15:54:40  <Alberth> ie an X cross is also 1 block
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15:55:27  <Alberth> even though a train can only go the the opposite end, and not to both orthogonal directions
15:58:51  <Alberth> but it's good that you try to improve it, we have no idea what part is hard to understand
15:59:56  <_DannyK> Alberth: maybe it's just that this big stupidity of mine is hard to come by lol
16:00:31  <Alberth> don't think so, signalling is generally considered difficult for some reason
16:00:54  <Alberth> I can't read understand why, sadly
16:01:36  <Alberth> *really
16:01:52  <_DannyK> Alberth: probably because you quickly understood the principle behind it
16:02:15  <Alberth> likely
16:02:40  <_DannyK> Alberth: and also because I'm most likely overthinking it, instead of playing by trial and error
16:03:03  <Alberth> :)
16:03:28  <Alberth> there isn't much to think, the game just refuses to let a train go through :p
16:04:50  <Alberth> if you don't belief the game, press "ignore red signal", and perhaps stuff crashes :p
16:05:12  <_DannyK> Alberth: I only hope you are equipped with enough patience to help me understand all the confusions I'm going to have later on ... :)
16:05:28  <Alberth> I get my most crashes by changing signalling while trains use the track :p
16:06:00  <_DannyK> Alberth: haha, so you learn the hard way if the new design works or not
16:07:17  <Alberth> oh, it always works, but for good performance, the signals need to be at the right spot, so after changing track layout, they must usually move
16:07:41  <Alberth> if you make an error while juggling signals, yep, trains do crash :p
16:08:20  <Alberth> but services cannot be stopped!  :D
16:10:14  <Alberth> safest is to first reroute trains around the work area, then do big rework, and then let the trains use it
16:10:36  <Alberth> sometimes however, there is no space for rerouting
16:16:45  <Alberth> danny: just ignore all the combo-signals, they are obsolete, unless you want to do openttdcoop magic
16:17:47  <peter1138> path signals all the way
16:18:02  <Alberth> +1
16:18:20  <_DannyK> I've heard they are good, but also slow down the game, true or false?
16:18:28  <supermop_home> false
16:18:28  <peter1138> and if we ever integrate signal restrictions then all that complex mumbo jumbo can be replaced with a little bit of code
16:18:53  <peter1138> everyone who ever said it slows down the game never provided any proof, as far as i know
16:19:20  <peter1138> and it's entirely possible that originally it meant slows down the flow of trains
16:19:51  <_DannyK> :)
16:20:04  <Alberth> next trains do wait until the block is empty, for competing tracks
16:21:28  <Alberth> likely, when the previous train leaves the block, its route becomes unfavorable due to being in use by that previous train
16:22:16  <Alberth> I don't understand why it doesn't make that decision earlier
16:25:20  <Alberth> in one game, I switched from path signals to combo signals, for this reason
16:25:36  <Alberth> track was too busy to have this delay
16:26:01  <Samu> openttdcoop game requires 1.7.0-RC1
16:26:04  <Samu> :(
16:26:24  <Alberth> trunk works too
16:26:54  <Alberth> or do you mean in MP ?
16:28:32  <peter1138> hmm, probably ought to stock up the fridge with b33r
16:28:55  <Alberth> sounds like a good idea for the next long weekend
16:28:56  <peter1138> seems my legs don't want to work though :(
16:29:13  <Alberth> b33r promise doesn't help?
16:33:58  <peter1138> heh
16:34:05  <peter1138> it's not just laziness, they ache quite a bit
16:34:47  <peter1138> it's this lovely weather we're having
16:34:58  <peter1138> it made me do 2 days of hard riding
16:44:29  <supermop_home> _DannyK
16:44:41  <supermop_home> you can try something like that to compare
16:44:49  <supermop_home> and then saturate it with trains
16:46:02  <_DannyK> supermop_home: thank you I will play with it
16:46:22  <supermop_home> or at least see that for making a basic line or terminus, PBS is much easier to set up
16:47:05  <supermop_home> in that instance, the top two tracks are pbs, the bottom two are block, with basic block on the line and entry/exit signals at the termini
16:47:53  <supermop_home> the more junctions or crossovers you add, the worse the block line will perform, and you'll need to add flying junctions, etc sooner
16:49:53  <supermop_home> if the line is simple enough block is only slightly worse than PBS, but as it gets busier or more complex, PBS helps more
16:50:44  <supermop_home> if you aren't doing anything co-op like, like making circuits out of track, using pbs everywhere works great
16:51:12  <supermop_home> also i cant believe that demonstration I built is profitable
16:53:02  <_DannyK> :)
16:53:09  <peter1138> heh
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17:45:49  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27850 /trunk/src/lang (korean.txt spanish_MX.txt) (2017-04-09 19:45:38 +0200 )
17:45:50  <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints:
17:45:51  <DorpsGek> korean: 3 changes by telk5093
17:45:52  <DorpsGek> spanish (mexican): 18 changes by Absay
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18:23:30  <_dp_> hmm... 1.7 seems to work with 1.6.1 servers just fine
18:23:53  <_dp_> are there really no changes at all?
18:23:55  <peter1138> "seems"
18:24:02  <peter1138> It should not connect.
18:25:00  <_dp_> I fooled version check
18:26:09  <_dp_> normally it would desync pretty fast
18:26:12  <_dp_> but nope, still going
18:26:48  <peter1138> I recommend reading the change log. That would pretty conclusively show you that there certainly were changes.
18:26:58  <peter1138> Why would there be a release with no changes...
18:28:06  <_dp_> I'm reading it and so far don't see anything that affects game mechanics
18:31:41  <_dp_> aside from newgrf stuff that I don't understand I see only two changes that can desync
18:31:45  <_dp_> both extremly rare
18:32:00  <LordAro> not everything is listed in the changelog
18:32:01  <peter1138> 19:23 < _dp_> are there really no changes at all?
18:32:06  <peter1138> Is clearly false
18:32:38  <LordAro> but... as long as you understand what you're doing is a Bad Thing(tm) and don't report any issues you have, i guess you're free to do whatever you want
18:33:43  <_dp_> I'm thinking of adding small red "connect anyway" button somewhere
18:35:26  <LordAro> there's no way that will ever be a thing
18:35:31  <LordAro> nor should it be
18:38:08  <_dp_> well, I'm not suggesting to add it to vanilla openttd ;)
18:38:40  <LordAro> i'd suggest it would be a very bad idea to publish such a patch anywhere
18:38:43  <peter1138> I recommend just using 1.6.1 to connect to 1.6.1
18:38:49  <LordAro> ^
18:43:41  <_dp_> having multiple versions is a pain in the ass
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18:45:49  <Wolf01> o/
18:46:21  <LordAro> _dp_: how?
18:49:19  <_dp_> idk, I often find myself in a situation when I have multiple client none of which I can use
18:49:42  <_dp_> because my working copy is broken, reserve is wrong version and vanilla is freaking useless
18:50:43  <Eddi|zuHause> in that case it's probably better for everyone else if you stopped playing
18:50:57  <_dp_> done that long ago :p
18:51:08  <peter1138> USELESS
18:51:15  <peter1138> there's never any changes in it!
19:03:22  <_dp_> ofc there are
19:03:30  <_dp_> realistic acceleration by default
19:03:34  <peter1138> 19:23 < _dp_> are there really no changes at all?
19:03:37  <_dp_> clearly worth a major version! :p
19:04:21  <_dp_> > _dp_> hmm... 1.7 seems to work with 1.6.1 servers just fine
19:06:51  <Rubidium> does 1.6.1 (without version check) work on 1.7 servers?
19:07:11  <_dp_> Rubidium, yeah, I couldn't make it desync
19:07:20  <_dp_> guess with trams or smth it will
19:07:41  <frosch123> the same probably holds if you join a 1.0 server
19:07:55  <_dp_> frosch123, nope, it usually desyncs pretty fast
19:08:33  * Rubidium finds it interesting that a 1.7 savegame loads in 1.6
19:08:58  <_dp_> for what I saw in changelog unless you do some tricky stuff with canals or secondary road types it's perfectly synced
19:09:16  <frosch123> 1.6/1.7 should desync on cdist
19:09:29  <peter1138> frosch123, it can't, there are no changes
19:09:49  <frosch123> i remember changing the name
19:10:16  <peter1138> we should allow changing newgrfs in game too
19:10:19  <peter1138> that never causes issues
19:10:54  <frosch123> Rubidium: they probably commented out savegame conversion
19:10:58  <Wolf01> We should disable the version check and add a warning with "please don't do stuff which might cause desync"
19:11:41  <peter1138> Wolf01, but there was really no changes at all. except at least two. but no changes.
19:12:27  <Wolf01> That's even better, you might craft specific warnings against the server version
19:13:06  <peter1138> _dp_, what did you have to do to make 1.6.1 connect to 1.7 servers then?
19:13:06  <Wolf01> "Please don't do these 2 things: blah blah"
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19:14:06  <_dp_> peter1138, actually in my case I didn't have to do anything, I just forgot to update rev.cpp :p
19:14:29  <Wolf01> How do you forget to update one file?
19:15:03  <peter1138> What?
19:15:10  <_dp_> Wolf01, it's not part of codebase since it's generated automatically
19:15:24  <_dp_> but I had that generation disabled ofc
19:15:46  <frosch123> ok, so dp's 1.6 client was actually a 1.7 client
19:15:56  <frosch123> he just changed the displayed version to 1.6
19:16:05  <_dp_> frosch123, exactly
19:17:52  <peter1138> so a version which claims to be 1.6 but is actual 1.7 has no changes from 1.7. gotcha.
19:18:33  <_dp_> peter1138, no changes from 1.8
19:18:58  <Wolf01> Oh, there is 1.8 too?
19:19:14  <Wolf01> Does it still have canals?
19:19:38  <_dp_> dunno, just no changes from it :p
19:19:51  <Wolf01> So canal removal will fail :(
19:20:24  * peter1138 attempts to decipher r27758
19:20:34  <peter1138> although i guess it is a blank commit as there are no changes, really.
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19:24:54  <peter1138> i don't see how it's meant to work as TAB_SIZE_BITS is not changed and it's still in bits 11-15, i think
19:26:40  <frosch123> TAB_SIZE only applies to the first 32 tabs
19:26:57  <frosch123> then comes a gamescript tab, which is way larger, and then a newgrf tab which is even more larger
19:27:21  <frosch123> see GetStringTab
19:27:28  <peter1138> i am :)
19:28:56  <frosch123> the other important part ist that MakeStringId contains a "+" instead of a "|"
19:38:20  <_dp_> oh, I know, I'll make it so it only ignores version if Ctrl is pressed
19:38:26  <_dp_> nobody will ever find it xD
19:39:01  <peter1138> Put it on shift-click
19:39:07  <peter1138> To estimate the cost of joining with the wrong version
19:41:33  <Wolf01> :D
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19:53:25  <Wolf01>
19:57:12  <peter1138> Everyone is alive, apparently. Phew.
19:57:33  <peter1138> ok so grf debug output isn't changed
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20:04:14  <Wolf01> Some say the breaks of the train was malfunctioning.
20:04:20  <Wolf01> Breaks, sure
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20:42:35  <Eddi|zuHause> when i hear "brakes malfunctioning" i always assume that the valve between engine and wagons wasn't opened, and they also didn't proerly check it
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20:43:37  <Eddi|zuHause> then, obviously, when the driver hits the brakes, only the engine's brakes will engage, and none of the wagons' brakes
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21:28:29  <glx> I though trains had brakes on by default
21:29:00  <Wolf01> But if you can't drop the pressure from the engine...
21:29:59  <Wolf01> TBH, how they did stop at the last station with broken brakes?
21:30:23  <Wolf01> I bet on human error
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21:44:38  <quiznilo> what happened to all the fences around my track, it's all gone!
21:44:51  <quiznilo> transparency opts look fine
21:45:03  <Wolf01> Disabled full detail?
21:45:08  <Eddi|zuHause> some newgrf you loaded?
21:45:21  <quiznilo> possibly, but it was showing fences before
21:45:36  <Wolf01> We succesfully removed something without knowing?
21:45:38  <Eddi|zuHause> did you place something next to the tracks?
21:45:42  <quiznilo> no
21:45:50  <Eddi|zuHause> did you press X?
21:45:51  <quiznilo> this is across the entire map, no fences
21:45:55  <quiznilo> a multiplayer game
21:46:08  <quiznilo> no, it isn't transparency or transparency opts, checked those
21:46:14  <peter1138> quiznilo, options -> full detail
21:46:19  <peter1138> well, spanner
21:46:31  <quiznilo> oh!
21:46:33  <quiznilo> really?
21:46:37  <quiznilo> that hides fences?
21:46:44  <peter1138> it hides details
21:46:48  <quiznilo> I unticked that for performance reasons, and full animation
21:46:49  <peter1138> more than just fences
21:46:52  <peter1138> yes
21:46:54  <quiznilo> sure
21:46:55  <Wolf01> [23:45:02] <Wolf01> Disabled full detail? <-
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21:46:59  <Eddi|zuHause> it hides sprites that have no gameplay relevance
21:46:59  <quiznilo> but the fences are more than full detail
21:47:03  <Eddi|zuHause> like... fences...
21:47:05  <peter1138> not really
21:47:10  <quiznilo> Wolf01: ya, sorry
21:47:14  <quiznilo> I was ignoring you
21:47:29  <Wolf01> Eh, I know the feel
21:47:29  <quiznilo> fences aren't a 'detail'!
21:47:32  <quiznilo> they're important!
21:47:35  <Eddi|zuHause> yes they are
21:47:56  <Eddi|zuHause> and the effect on performance is probably negligible
21:48:04  <quiznilo> you wouldn't say that if you were at risk of trying to connect to your opponent's track
21:48:26  <supermop_home> huh?
21:48:45  <quiznilo> the fences are how you can see at a glance if it's your track or your opponent's track
21:49:35  <Wolf01> There are games other than coop ones?
21:49:41  <Eddi|zuHause> but you can also find that out with the ? tool
21:49:45  <peter1138> 20145 -> 201BF
21:49:49  <quiznilo> sure
21:49:50  <peter1138> E145 -> 2
21:49:51  <quiznilo> but
21:49:52  <peter1138> hmm
21:49:53  <quiznilo> 'at a glance
21:50:22  <quiznilo> pvp forever
21:50:27  <quiznilo> ottd, eve, everywhere
21:51:25  <quiznilo> I did learn today that you can't blow up your opponent's statues
21:51:31  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, it's a setting that just always was there
21:51:55  <Eddi|zuHause> it's probably pointless, but nobody wants to touch it
21:51:59  <Wolf01> I'm not really into pvp, I suck :P
21:52:16  <quiznilo> carebear *cough*
21:52:51  <Eddi|zuHause> i tried pvp in path of exile once... you always get paired with someone 20 levels above you, who instantly mauls you
21:53:09  <quiznilo> that sucks
21:53:13  <quiznilo> that's not fun pvp
21:53:25  <Eddi|zuHause> exactly
21:53:44  <Eddi|zuHause> and even if they were same level, they usually have better gear and still instantly maul you
21:56:43  <quiznilo> well, I like the pvp that isn't like that
21:56:56  <Wolf01> I got beaten down by people 20 levels below me
21:57:34  <Wolf01> I have a *bad* memory of player killers in diablo 1
21:57:52  <quiznilo> chess is pvp
21:58:13  <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r27851 /trunk/src (newgrf_text.cpp newgrf_text.h) (2017-04-09 23:58:07 +0200 )
21:58:14  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6555]: StringID truncation to 16 bits broke string remapping test.
21:59:18  <peter1138> another non-change
21:59:36  <Wolf01> I told you to remove canals
22:02:41  <Eddi|zuHause> are you lead coder/project manager now?
22:04:09  <Wolf01> Nah, it should be just a suggestion
22:06:42  <supermop_home> I wish there was a way to launch a game straight from SE
22:07:04  <Wolf01> Mmmh
22:07:04  <quiznilo> SE?
22:07:12  <Wolf01> Scenario editor
22:07:47  <quiznilo> show them a patch and they'll consider it :)
22:07:55  <Eddi|zuHause> man it's been forever since i tried the SE
22:07:55  <Wolf01> Changing game_mode from a running game without reloading could be fun
22:09:04  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: you can just treat it as loading the game... the demand was simply for a quick way to do that without going through the main menu
22:09:59  <Wolf01> Nah, I was thinking more about a transition from SE to normal game without interruptions
22:10:09  <Wolf01> Maybegoing back to SE too
22:10:21  <Wolf01> (cheat)
22:10:44  <Wolf01> But it should remove every player property
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22:10:44  <supermop_home> either would be an improvement
22:10:53  <Eddi|zuHause> that may work, but you'd have to check a lot of corner cases to be sure
22:11:13  <Wolf01> Reinitialize all the toolbars too
22:11:16  <Eddi|zuHause> why would loading in SE remove player property?
22:11:35  <Eddi|zuHause> there is a command for that
22:11:48  <Wolf01> Uhm, yeah, true
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22:13:54  <quiznilo> ottd should send email also
22:13:59  <quiznilo> oh... what was that rule?
22:16:13  <quiznilo> Zawinski's law
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22:30:34  <FLHerne> quiznilo: Well, you could hook an email relay to the admin port
22:30:56  <FLHerne> r/openttd have a bidirectional IRC bridge for the ingame chat
22:31:37  <quiznilo> oh cool
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22:52:09  <Wolf01> 'night
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23:05:19  <quiznilo> hmm... took a year for one of my trains to climb a hill
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23:54:22  <Samu> nerf coal
23:54:36  <Samu> less production perhaps
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