Log for #openttd on 10th April 2017:
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08:11:51  <Wolf01> Moin
08:19:37  <__ln__> buongiorno
08:23:26  <Wolf01> "The glance screen is a Nokia/Lumia only feature, so there are no APIs in WP8.x that allow you to display data there. Likely there exists some internal API at the Lumia teams that allow you to do so but that isn't available to regular developers." well... shit
08:24:31  <Wolf01> And is still the same in W10
08:27:00  <Wolf01> The only solution is to replace the entire lockscreen
08:27:27  <__ln__> Wolf01: have you considered switching to MeeGo?
08:27:52  <Wolf01> Yes and no for every reason you could find
08:32:58  <V453000> anus
08:36:29  <Wolf01> Yep
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13:35:40  <crem> Why are authorities so evil? They allow me nothing!
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13:40:14  <Arveen> #include "evil.h"
13:41:40  <Milek7_>
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13:43:52  <Arveen> or maybe tweak it so mowing down trees and infrastructure increases rating :D
13:45:40  <crem> I start every game by building railway station in all towns almost immediately, being scared that I won't be able to do that later. :)
13:46:18  <Samu> that's how you lower your town rating
13:47:05  <crem> I guess it won't lower it unless I actually start transporting things.
13:47:20  <_dp_> somehow that got me thinking: why don't we have flying trains?
13:47:38  <Samu> stations on a town without being serviced = appalling
13:47:42  <Samu> or very poor
13:48:40  <crem> "company rating" and "whatever it's called, the one which makes authorities disallow building" are different things, aren't they?
13:48:47  <_dp_> crem, you got it completely backwards, unused stations lower rating
13:49:26  <crem> There's no need to worry about it when you already built what you wanted. :)
13:50:19  <_dp_> if one station is all you want then yes
13:50:43  <_dp_> though, who cares, just plan some trees, authorities absolutely love trees ;)
13:51:05  <andythenorth> V453000 cat
13:51:12  <crem> cats are nice
13:51:29  <crem> trees trick doesn't work more than 2-3 times. :)
13:51:52  <_dp_> crem, destroy all trees and plant them again xD
13:51:58  <supermop> _dp_: one unused station with no track can have service added later
13:52:53  <supermop> _dp_: one mainline track with no station though trees and it's a pain to add a station later
13:53:45  <supermop> intrinsically, i dont care if the the town rating is low once ive built the station
13:53:45  <V453000> not cat
13:53:53  <V453000> wat?
13:54:02  <supermop> and I won't care that it remains low until i start the service
13:54:11  <supermop> at which point it will improve
13:55:47  <andythenorth> V453000: day off work, should newgrf?
13:57:29  <V453000> should
13:57:48  <V453000> I will probably do something with brix over evenings after we release factorio 0.15
13:58:37  <planetmaker> crem: build two bus stations in eacht town and inaugurate a bus service. Then that service will improve your rating - even when you lower it by landscaping
13:58:46  <_dp_> supermop, and I never pay at low enough pace to justify building unused stations of waiting for rating to increase on its own
13:58:49  * andythenorth has made a big FIRS mess and needs to finish tidying it up
13:58:54  <andythenorth> otherwise no release
13:59:20  <supermop> ^ what pm said is the easiest way
13:59:33  <V453000> XD
13:59:49  <_dp_> even one station is enough :p
13:59:51  <andythenorth> I added warning messages to the compile for unfinished things
13:59:55  <andythenorth> so now it nags me a lot
14:00:05  <supermop> _dp_: if you are playing at a fast pace then still build all the stations and  go ahead and start the train
14:01:08  <crem> But is the service rating (which is improved by transferring goods timely) and authority rating (which disallows building) the same thing?
14:01:27  <_dp_> supermop, lol, if I don't have decent income after first few months game is already screwed
14:01:35  <V453000> that's nice andythenorth
14:02:07  <supermop> crem: not really
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14:02:57  <crem> Then how building two bus stations help authorities to allow me building? :-\
14:03:03  <supermop> you can have 5 stations in a town with excellent rating but still have the town hate you because you demolished half their buildings
14:03:35  <supermop> because station rating has an effect on authority rating
14:04:18  <_dp_> there is local authority rating of company in each town and station rating for each cargo on each station
14:04:37  <_dp_> both are improved by tranporting but in different ways
14:05:19  <supermop> if you have a station with a good rating, that will gradually improve your town rating
14:06:01  <_dp_> supermop, no, station rating is completely irrelevant for authorities
14:06:12  <supermop> i guess a station with a horrible rating would also hurt your town rating, but i never really notice it
14:06:19  <_dp_> all they care is that station is active (ie any load or unload in 50 days)
14:07:05  <supermop> well that's close enough to equivalent to me
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14:07:47  <_dp_> supermop, unloading stations don't even have cargo ratings
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14:19:19  <andythenorth> questions
14:19:25  <andythenorth> Salt cargo for FIRS extreme?
14:19:34  <andythenorth> there is 1 cargo slot free
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14:22:23  <peter1138> Just make more cargo slots.
14:27:58  <supermop> hmm salt
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14:28:37  <Alberth> o/
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14:30:47  * crem has no idea what FIRS is. Probably it's either not released or not very discoverable.
14:31:30  <quiznilo> it's a newRGF
14:31:36  <quiznilo> industry
14:31:51  <quiznilo> replaces stock industries with a whole bunch of new ones that work differently
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14:32:52  <quiznilo> like, you get milk from the dairy farm, and take it to the dairy, and they make food out of it
14:33:06  <quiznilo> can ship to grocery stores or gas stations... convenience stores
14:33:11  <quiznilo> or even direct to houses
14:33:26  <quiznilo> not sure what the diff is between sending food to houses or an industry
14:34:42  <crem> I tried picking random newgrfs but they were mostly just new trains or something. I'd like to have a curated list of recommended newgrfs. To blindly install them all and have fun.
14:37:22  <dlite> FIRS is good, but you need to combine it with compatible train / road vehicle sets
14:41:14  <andythenorth> FIRS, CHIPS, Road Hog, Iron Horse, OGFX+ Airports (removes all town<->airport restrictions). AV9
14:41:26  <andythenorth> oh and some kind of ship set, but they’re all awful
14:41:31  <andythenorth> I use Squid
14:41:54  <andythenorth> regular viewers may detect some bias in andythenorth’s grf list
14:42:10  <supermop> crem: i'd say FIRS is probably the most popular industry newgrf, over the past 9(?) years?
14:42:19  <quiznilo> andy, I had a question about FIRS
14:42:21  <Alberth> andy, they're simply the best :)
14:42:25  <quiznilo> trying to remember it
14:42:31  <andythenorth> best for me :P
14:42:40  <Alberth> supplies, and production
14:42:41  <quiznilo> not if I can't remember it
14:42:42  <andythenorth> I don’t trust ‘best’ for such subjective things
14:42:53  <Alberth> there is a log at @log  :p
14:43:02  <quiznilo> a what
14:43:06  <Alberth> @log
14:43:09  <Alberth> @logs
14:43:09  <DorpsGek> Alberth:
14:43:13  <Alberth> ^ that
14:43:27  <quiznilo> :ohdear:
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14:44:57  <quiznilo> I probably answered it when I grepped FIRS source code
14:45:07  <quiznilo> that thing
14:47:20  <Alberth> ok, so you didn't have a question :p
14:47:31  <quiznilo> be patient, man
14:47:41  <quiznilo> I'm always asking questions :)
14:47:42  <Alberth> :)
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15:10:40  <andythenorth> ach, connection won’t stay up :x
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15:59:30  <frosch123> <- someone got caught :p
16:05:59  <LordAro> haha
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16:09:10  <Alberth> o/
16:09:22  <frosch123> hoi
16:41:32  <Wolf01> Quak, o/
16:41:58  <Wolf01> Albert, if it is of your interest:
16:44:42  <quiznilo> I'd love to submit a patch for train/car replacement, have 'one less car' as an option, so I don't have to pull 50 freight trains into a depot one at a time to remove a car or get rid of caboose
16:44:57  <quiznilo> need to learn C++ first though :v
16:45:10  <frosch123> check forums for template based train replacement
16:45:20  <quiznilo> oh shit
16:45:25  <quiznilo> if this is a thing...
16:46:21  <ST2> about "one less car" there's already the Wagon removal option
16:47:06  <Alberth> make a new train with one less car, then replicate it for each train that you have, deleting the original
16:54:46  <Alberth> Wolf01: looks good, thanks
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17:35:51  <zacnomore> I just pulled the svn repo and it gave me a build warning: checking revision... no detection... WARNING: please use a subversion, mercurial, or git checkout of OpenTTD... WARNING: USE WITH CAUTION!"
17:35:57  <zacnomore> How concerned should I be?
17:36:45  <frosch123> i think that happens if you checkout everything, instead of just trunk
17:38:35  <zacnomore> Hmmm. How could it tell though? I ran configure from inside the trunk... Either way, what should I do to fix that?
17:39:39  <frosch123> it looks for .svn folders
17:39:44  <frosch123> or .hg or .git
17:40:07  <frosch123> if you checkout everything with svn, that folder is one level up too much
17:40:26  <zacnomore> Hmm. Alright. Thanks much.
17:45:47  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27852 /trunk/src/lang (catalan.txt spanish.txt) (2017-04-10 19:45:37 +0200 )
17:45:48  <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints:
17:45:49  <DorpsGek> catalan: 31 changes by juanjo
17:45:50  <DorpsGek> spanish: 5 changes by SilverSurferZzZ
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18:07:00  <andythenorth> remove clustering from FIRS?
18:07:01  <andythenorth> o_O
18:07:09  <Wolf01> o/
18:08:38  <Alberth> why would you want to remove clustering?
18:09:33  <frosch123> didn't you remove that 2 years ago?
18:09:47  <peter1138> hmm, what else can i break...
18:10:15  <Wolf01> Brakes?
18:10:28  <andythenorth> I eased clustering so they’re more widely spaced
18:10:34  <andythenorth> not sure it’s useful
18:10:50  <andythenorth> means, for example, that steel mills are distributed across the map
18:11:02  <andythenorth> but only one part of the map will have coal
18:11:08  <andythenorth> and some other part has the iron ore
18:11:11  <Wolf01> Mmmh, a setting to make trains not brake instantaneously
18:11:26  <frosch123> isn't that a good thing?
18:11:41  <andythenorth> peter1138: allow trains on a PBS reservation to follow preceeding trains in same direction
18:11:53  <andythenorth> [and hope none of them need to reverse]
18:12:03  <frosch123> and one of them breaks down
18:12:08  <frosch123> +n
18:12:25  <andythenorth> ‘proceed on sight'
18:12:54  <Wolf01> SPAD signals too
18:13:01  <andythenorth> there’s something in JGR’s pack about slots
18:13:05  <andythenorth> dunno what it is
18:13:45  <Wolf01>
18:14:10  * andythenorth wonders about merging trunk to NRT
18:14:30  <Wolf01> Not yet, maybe yeti
18:16:39  <V453000> wot
18:16:53  <andythenorth> too many conflicts that I don’t understand
18:17:50  <andythenorth> 5 conflicts eh
18:19:03  <Wolf01> I don't understand how to git
18:19:46  <peter1138> git do-all-the-things
18:19:48  <Wolf01> Best I can do is switch the branch, commit, pull
18:19:56  <andythenorth> I don’t understand how to do ottd :P
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18:21:41  <andythenorth> .gitignore is sad about projects/.vs and similar
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18:22:01  <andythenorth> hmm remote diffing is crap :(
18:22:09  <peter1138> .gitignore is... a file
18:22:20  <andythenorth> I know :P
18:22:45  <andythenorth> I added you to
18:23:17  <andythenorth> I have ottd trunk set up as a remote, and I’m trying to merge it into the road-and-tram-types branch
18:23:27  <andythenorth> but eh, conflicts in things I don’t understand
18:24:01  <peter1138> well
18:24:37  <peter1138> merging eh
18:24:46  <andythenorth> such merge
18:25:19  <Wolf01> gitignore conflicts might be my fault
18:27:13  <andythenorth>
18:27:21  * andythenorth tries the newfangled way
18:27:35  <andythenorth> the second conflict is all greek to me :P
18:27:47  <peter1138> meh, easy
18:31:28  <peter1138> [road-and-tram-types 751f8b1] Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/master' into road-and-tram-types
18:31:42  <quiznilo> ooo private repo
18:31:44  <quiznilo> meh
18:32:04  <quiznilo> nm, the file is just... just gone!
18:36:01  <peter1138> well it builds
18:40:28  <andythenorth> probably fine then
18:42:02  <quiznilo> if it compiles, ship it
18:42:12  <peter1138> i already pushed
18:42:13  <quiznilo> the NJ style
18:42:24  <peter1138> joking, i didn't
18:42:32  <quiznilo>
18:43:10  <peter1138> and that worked well for mozilla...
18:46:56  <quiznilo> I'm checking out jetbrains' new Go IDE
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18:48:27  <quiznilo> vim is pissing me off
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18:49:40  <andythenorth> towns can’t be funded?
18:49:42  <andythenorth> right?
18:51:04  <_dp_> they can
18:51:25  <andythenorth> oh it’s a setting
18:52:55  <andythenorth> ta
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20:04:30  <andythenorth> peter1138: you could just push it
20:04:35  <andythenorth> it’s a branch in a fork
20:04:46  <andythenorth> which kittens might die?
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20:25:10  <Wolf01>
20:27:22  <andythenorth> isn’t it
20:40:07  * andythenorth is not good at maths
20:40:28  <andythenorth> but, what division operations result in 0? o_O
20:41:47  <_dp_> 0 / non-0
20:42:15  <_dp_> though it gets more complex with computers
20:42:50  <Wolf01> Mmmmh, you might be responsible of my soon-to-be-lost night over numberphile
20:43:02  <andythenorth> industry_count(${location_check.industry_type_numeric_id}) / ${location_check.div} / industry_clusters != 0
20:43:10  <andythenorth> looks like a stupid check to me
20:43:25  <andythenorth> location_check.div is usually 3 or 4
20:43:46  <Wolf01> If that is 0 you have a problem
20:44:04  <andythenorth> it seems to be totally pointless
20:44:16  <Wolf01> Maybe it's the industry count that is 0
20:44:23  <Wolf01> Difficult but possible
20:44:25  <_dp_> is in integer division or float?
20:44:42  <andythenorth> bytecode so integer
20:45:13  <_dp_> then I guess it's equivalent to abs(count) >= div*clusters
20:45:53  <andythenorth> that would be what is wanted I think
20:46:27  <andythenorth> that would be an easier way to write the same check :P
20:50:29  <andythenorth> bedtime
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21:08:03  <Wolf01>
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21:27:41  <quiznilo> andy, what was the idea about adding these hotels?  Was that a way to approach passenger traffic as if it were an industry?
21:27:55  <Wolf01> andy is no more
21:28:01  <quiznilo> how sad
21:28:46  <quiznilo> pick up passengers from hotel
21:28:56  <quiznilo> possibly send them to livestock plant
21:29:11  <quiznilo> name it 'Soylent Green Cracker Factory'
21:31:57  <Wolf01> I think you aren't the first one which came out with this idea
21:36:04  <supermop> quiznilo: i think the idea was an easy black hole for certain firs cargoes, as well as easy source of early game passenger traffic to bootstrap network incase towns are too small
21:37:25  <ST2> The thing I like about FIRS is that you can have people eat bricks :P
21:37:27  <ST2> Stone -> Lime Kiln -> Chemicals -> Paper Mill -> Manufacturing Supplies -> Grain Mill -> Food
21:37:32  <ST2> gotta love it xD
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21:45:33  <quiznilo> heh
21:56:46  <Eddi|zuHause> it's not that far from the truth
21:57:23  <Eddi|zuHause> my company dissolves stones in acid, and the resulting salt-solution gets put in food
21:59:23  <ST2> dman, that's looks like a nasty way to get salt - maybe we should start collecting tears xD
21:59:40  <ST2> or use the old way, sea salt ^^
22:00:42  <Eddi|zuHause> chemically speaking, it's CaCO3+2HCl -> CaCl2+H2CO3
22:01:19  <Eddi|zuHause> of course the H2CO3 separates into H2O and CO2
22:01:38  <ST2> well, some poluted water still remains H2O - but not my area
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22:03:13  <Eddi|zuHause> i never actually checked whether it makes a fizzing sound
22:13:15  <Wolf01> 'night
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