Log for #openttd on 29th May 2017:
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00:04:50  <supermop_home> cant find it in the docs tho
00:08:36  <Wolf01> 'night
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03:06:39  <Vadtec> does anyone know which newgrf changes the behavior of industries closing from "poof they are gone" to "it actually takes some time before they poof"
03:06:40  <Vadtec> ?
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06:20:31  <andythenorth> o/
06:58:04  <V453000>
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07:05:41  <andythenorth> such F
07:22:05  <andythenorth> industries
07:26:14  <peter1138> too clean & sharp
07:39:30  <andythenorth> it’s brand new!
07:39:35  <andythenorth> paint is still shiny
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09:05:01  <Wolf01> o/
09:07:53  <crem> o//
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13:01:58  <supermop_home> yo
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13:56:27  <andythenorth> but also
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14:41:48  <supermop_home> more paper mills?
14:45:05  <andythenorth> so many
14:50:45  <supermop_home> advantage of lots of square footed buildings
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14:54:41  <Alberth> o/
14:55:46  <andythenorth> lo Alberth
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15:06:34  <Alberth> new industry peatlands looks very much under construction :p
15:07:14  <Alberth> same globally brown-ish colour :)
15:08:14  <andythenorth> irl they’re quite…boring
15:08:45  <andythenorth> I might get hit by inspiration some time
15:08:57  <Alberth> I saw the photo, very large, very flat
15:09:13  <andythenorth> the tiles should at least show a difference in front / behind the harvesters
15:09:23  <andythenorth> peat pile in front, bare ground behind
15:09:58  <Alberth>
15:11:26  <andythenorth> yes I could draw the bricks
15:11:39  <andythenorth> and channels of water in the ground that drain the mire
15:11:45  <Alberth>,_Outer_Hebrides,_Scotland.jpg  more boring stack
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15:14:52  <Alberth> looks like a very finite resource, unless you play for a few thousand years :p
15:15:19  <andythenorth> peat caused capitalism
15:17:07  <andythenorth> Dutch people dug the peat, then needed to keep the land drained
15:17:15  <andythenorth> so they bought shares in windmills
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15:17:24  <andythenorth> lo Snail
15:22:04  <Alberth> hmm, blaming us eh? :p
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15:37:44  <supermop_home>
15:37:49  <supermop_home> trucks working
15:47:53  <Alberth> :O  great!
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15:49:23  <supermop_home> now need to give all the new trucks better names
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15:54:35  <V453000> took me 2 years already to make 1 road type
15:54:42  <V453000> how many will it take to make all the new ones? :D
15:55:38  <Alberth> depends on how much you want to change with the current one :)
15:56:14  <V453000> about redo :P
15:57:36  <Alberth> based on previous experience, I'd say 2 years
15:59:56  <supermop_home> do I need to use random_switch? can I just use switch with random_bits as the thing to test?
16:01:22  <Alberth> there was an important difference between them, not sure what it was, random_bits are more stable iirc
16:01:52  <supermop_home> i don't see a random_switch trigger for 'is built'
16:02:05  <supermop_home> I only want to randomize once, on vehicle purchase
16:03:40  <V453000> I always used random switch, frosch might have added some random bits when he was writing rainbow slugs though
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16:04:41  <Alberth> random_bits does point to random_switch
16:05:31  <andythenorth> trucks :)
16:05:45  <supermop_home> bendy busses next
16:06:18  <andythenorth> ach, all the forums action is BR Set
16:06:26  <andythenorth> good luck to it though :)
16:06:41  <supermop_home> go hype up mop generic road vehicles
16:07:10  <andythenorth> sets made by one person get low-traffic threads
16:07:20  <andythenorth> for obvious reasons, compared to a group collaborating
16:07:48  <andythenorth> also it’s impossible to produce much drama posts when working alone
16:08:09  <supermop_home> go shit talk my trucks then
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16:55:14  <Vadtec> when reserving land for later use near a town, is it necessary to purchase *all* the tiles you want to reserve, or can you just purchase the outline of the tiles you want to reserve to keep the town out?
16:56:08  <Alberth> outline seems to work last time I tried
16:56:30  <Alberth> unless you have AI that thinks "eh, free space for my new airport" :p
16:56:46  <Vadtec> heh, true, had that happen once
16:57:09  <Alberth> one bought tile in the middle solves that problem :p
16:58:07  <Alberth> maybe even just near roads is sufficient, but not sure
16:58:14  <Vadtec> i feel like a moron for not having thought of that
16:58:18  <Alberth> I hardly ever play near a city
16:58:35  <Vadtec> i use planes to feed my rail habbit
16:58:36  <Vadtec> :P
16:58:57  <Vadtec> few good routes of valuables and i can build whatever rail network i want
16:59:36  <Alberth> I do industries only, mostly
16:59:54  <Alberth> and when sufficiently bored, I may move some goods to the towns
17:00:09  * andythenorth plays FIRS
17:00:21  <Alberth> with BB ?
17:00:24  <andythenorth> NCG
17:00:32  <andythenorth> 15 years, 120,000t per cargo
17:00:48  <andythenorth> also, I think Arctic Basic is ‘done’ for v3, download here
17:01:02  <Alberth> I might want to try NCG some more, never played much with it, tbh
17:01:19  <andythenorth> it’s fun, but it forces a very linear play-style
17:01:30  <andythenorth> especially in a short game, all choices have to support only the goal
17:01:44  <andythenorth> so nice-looking stations etc are strictly wasting time and money
17:02:12  <andythenorth> if the goal numbers are set well, it also has a frantic late-game stage, manic last 2 years
17:04:11  <andythenorth> it might be interesting to have a variant of NCG with ‘all cargos'
17:04:25  <andythenorth> although ‘more’ is not always better :P
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17:19:25  <LordAro> ooh, lots of pretty warnings with gcc7.1
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17:25:37  <Alberth> andythenorth: 5572 is latest?   build date suggests it is, but I have firses with higher numbers
17:26:17  <andythenorth> 5626 is my local rev
17:26:29  <andythenorth> dunno what bundles does with version numbers
17:26:48  <andythenorth> that looks like a bug though
17:26:50  <andythenorth> :|
17:28:52  <Alberth>  I have even higher numbers, time-stamp is download time of course, rather than creation time at devzone
17:30:06  <Alberth>   <-- much higher numbers
17:32:57  <LordAro> frosch123: quak
17:33:45  <andythenorth> Alberth: that’s interesting, not sure where those come from
17:33:51  <andythenorth> mine matches hg revs
17:34:07  <Alberth> inside it's again 5572
17:34:23  <frosch123> LordAro: some look legit
17:34:28  <frosch123> like fios.cpp
17:34:31  <andythenorth> I guess I haven’t finished patching the makefile then :P
17:34:43  <Alberth> (I picked 6358)
17:35:13  <frosch123> LordAro: is there a "fallthrough" attribute meanwhile?
17:35:27  <LordAro> /* FALLTHROUGH */ i think is "standard"
17:35:38  <frosch123> i mean something the compiler knows
17:35:43  <LordAro> other than that, there are "actual" attributes, with varying amounts of support
17:35:45  <frosch123> like __attribute__(__fallthrough__)
17:35:48  <LordAro>
17:36:11  <frosch123> <- there it is
17:36:18  <frosch123> we should add that to stdafx.h
17:36:29  <LordAro> aye
17:36:39  <LordAro> preferring to use [[fallthrough]], ofc ;)
17:38:24  <frosch123> more #ifdef in stdafx.h
17:38:27  * andythenorth ponders a roadstop spec that could show cargo
17:38:43  <andythenorth> bored of building a train station tile to show waiting cargo at roadstops :)
17:39:13  <frosch123> they added attribute namespaces... oh dear
17:42:30  <Vadtec> -_- thats like the 4th time in about 3 years ive had a stupid industry that ive been servicing for 10+ years close right out from under me...with good raitings and decent
17:43:48  <andythenorth> nah
17:43:53  <andythenorth> code says that can’t happen
17:44:52  <Vadtec> i just lost a factory that ive been suppling with 300+ grain and livestock close
17:45:30  <Vadtec> lost a coal mine about 10 minutes ago that was supplying 258 coal
17:45:44  <andythenorth> in default game, no industry grfs?
17:45:44  <Vadtec> this game has been weird
17:46:00  <andythenorth> it’s not a patchpack?
17:46:04  <Vadtec> pretty sure its default, lemme check
17:46:07  <glx> coal mine can disappear
17:46:11  <Vadtec> nah, no patchpack
17:46:19  <glx> same for all primary industries
17:46:31  <Vadtec> nope, no industry grfs
17:47:10  <Vadtec> glx... can disappear even with excellent supply and transport?
17:47:11  <glx> but secondary industries like factory should stay if you provide cargo
17:47:38  <glx> coal is a "finite" ressource :)
17:48:08  <Vadtec> well that was the smallest coal mine ever then
17:48:29  <Vadtec> ive had games where ive had coal mines producing 1000+ for 100+ years
17:48:38  <Vadtec> this one lasted barely 20
17:48:41  <andythenorth> default coal mine cannot close if station rating is > x%
17:49:02  <Vadtec> not sure what the rating was
17:49:06  <andythenorth> eh, actually there might be a case where production multiplier falls enough times on random chance
17:49:08  <andythenorth> maybe
17:49:21  <Vadtec> it should have had a high rating
17:49:36  <andythenorth> which economy setting?
17:50:02  <andythenorth> (smooth economy on or off?)
17:50:15  <Vadtec> smooth on
17:51:13  <Vadtec> i dunno
17:51:16  <Vadtec> this game has been weird
17:51:39  <Vadtec> it took the cargodist almost a full game year to balance in a new route for goods i added
17:52:34  <Vadtec> i probably need to nuke the game folder and start over, ive been screwing with grfs alot with this version
17:52:53  <andythenorth> have you changed the grfs while the game is running?
17:53:00  <Vadtec> nope
17:53:33  <andythenorth> probably fine then
17:55:13  <Vadtec> meh, if it keeps up ill shutdown and nuke the game folder, not like im loosing some huge ass empire or anything lol
18:06:49  <Vadtec> has anyone ever played a game where their trains were 64 tiles long? was it any fun?
18:08:02  <andythenorth> yes and yes
18:08:12  <andythenorth> but the novelty wears off fast
18:08:33  <Vadtec> ive gone as long as 12 tiles before
18:08:40  <andythenorth> you need a bunch of very high production industries, mines or so
18:08:53  <Vadtec> i just dont see how you're supposed to keep the raiting up with a 64 tile long train
18:09:45  <Alberth> don't do full load :p
18:09:45  <andythenorth> there’s a grf that adjusts station ratings, for this purpose
18:09:59  <Vadtec> oh?
18:10:42  * Vadtec goes looking 
18:13:13  <andythenorth>
18:13:22  <andythenorth> used to be in FIRS, but I deleted it
18:13:33  <andythenorth> so 3iff copied it to a new grf
18:14:38  <Vadtec> ah, cool
18:14:54  <Vadtec> omg...lost another oil well
18:14:58  <Vadtec> bleh
18:15:01  <Alberth> LordAro:   you missed one :p
18:15:04  <Vadtec> sucked it dry lol
18:15:28  <LordAro> Alberth: interesting, where did you find that? :p
18:15:38  <Alberth> my compiler does :p
18:15:42  <LordAro> which version?
18:16:02  <Alberth> g++ (GCC) 6.3.1 20161221 (Red Hat 6.3.1-1)
18:16:07  <LordAro> huh
18:16:16  <LordAro> wonder why it's disappeared with 7.1.1 then
18:17:51  <Alberth> it's a false positive, so likely fixed
18:19:05  <LordAro> hehe
18:19:17  <planetmaker> o/
18:19:26  <Alberth>  /o
18:19:31  <LordAro> /o pm
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19:03:58  <Snail> hey andythenorth
19:04:05  <andythenorth> hey Snail
19:04:17  <Snail> I’m going through your new cargo list, just to have an idea of all the new labels you introduced...
19:04:32  <Snail> but I seem I can’t find the explanation of “vehicle bodies” in the FIRS docs
19:04:38  <Snail> I’m looking here:
19:05:01  <Snail> I can see “vehicle parts”, not “vehicle bodies”. I’d like to have an idea before drawing them on my wagons
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19:06:47  <andythenorth> the ‘push’ docs give you a better idea of what’s new
19:06:53  <andythenorth> BUT they change often :P
19:07:03  <andythenorth> after play-testing I often remove new cargos
19:07:23  <Snail> :P
19:07:35  <Snail> sounds so lovely… from a set developer’s POV :D
19:08:06  <Snail> especially because I would clearly see “vehicle bodies” as a subcargo of “vehicle parts"
19:10:18  <andythenorth> it’s not a classification system :)
19:10:28  <andythenorth> cargos are designed to make industry chains work
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19:11:29  <andythenorth> so in this case it gives a connection from metal to vehicles
19:11:45  <Snail> vehicle bodies?
19:11:53  <andythenorth> yes
19:11:54  <Snail> can’t you use vehicle parts to make that connection?
19:11:57  <andythenorth> no
19:12:02  <andythenorth> well yes, but then it makes no sense
19:12:14  <andythenorth> all things are possible :)
19:12:22  <Snail> guess so
19:12:24  <andythenorth> not all things make a good cargo flow in game
19:12:52  <Snail> thinking about it, it would be fun to strip my cars out of wheels and glass… and have them as a new cargo
19:13:00  <andythenorth> :)
19:13:03  <Snail> but that would be hardly noticeable, given the small size
19:13:09  <andythenorth> do truck cabs
19:13:10  <Alberth> nuts, bolts
19:13:23  <Snail> I have tractors
19:13:41  <andythenorth> here’s how CHIPS does it
19:14:03  <andythenorth> I just blacked out the windows and cut off the cabs from
19:14:32  <Wolf01> <andythenorth> so in this case it gives a connection from metal to vehicles <- I always play metal on road trips
19:14:39  <andythenorth> nice
19:14:49  * andythenorth plays 80s music
19:15:09  <Wolf01> Usually that too, but I prefer metal
19:16:07  <Snail> andythenorth: I love your truck cabs, but they’re too big to fit my trains
19:16:17  <Snail> I’d have to draw new ones… I’ll think about that
19:16:25  <andythenorth> fair :)
19:16:27  <Snail> also I like to draw realistic ones :D
19:16:40  <andythenorth> FIRS must be a nightmare for vehicle authors :P
19:16:54  <andythenorth> there are now 63 cargos
19:16:56  <Snail> well, at least you’re honest enough to accept it :D
19:17:16  <andythenorth> I make 3 active vehicle sets and a station set :P
19:17:36  <andythenorth> I have skin in the game when I add cargos ;)
19:18:49  <Snail> let’s say bulk cargo is not that much of a problem (I usually deal with it using recoloring)
19:19:09  <Snail> it’s piece good cargo that’s a pain, because I need to draw new stuff
19:20:46  <andythenorth> there’s a reason I put a month or so into automating cargo placement on vehicles :)
19:21:02  <andythenorth> also, tarpaulins and crates solve a lot of problems
19:21:10  <Snail> yes
19:21:23  <Snail> but I can’t put “vehicle bodies” in crates :D
19:21:30  <planetmaker> crates, barrels, containers ftw ;)
19:21:46  <Alberth> so boring :p
19:21:51  <planetmaker> that, too :)
19:22:15  <planetmaker> I totally understand the notion to draw nice fitting cargoes for the vehicles. It really adds to the flair and beauty
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19:57:46  <andythenorth> meh
19:57:51  <andythenorth> going to be beaten by NCG
19:57:52  <andythenorth> :|
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20:16:28  <supermop_home> this steam truck looks ugly
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20:23:26  <rubenwardy_> Hi!
20:23:42  <rubenwardy_> please may someone have a look at my signalling system:
20:23:50  <rubenwardy_> Thought I knew OTTD, apparently not
20:23:57  <rubenwardy_> those are all one way paths
20:24:35  <rubenwardy_> there's two exits,     one with three tracks which merges to one track (left)      one with one track (bottom).      The two trains shown are stuck
20:24:57  <rubenwardy_> this is 1.6.1
20:25:06  <frosch123> you probably have 90-degree turns disabled
20:25:24  <frosch123> so the train on the upper platform cannot reach the exit at the bottom
20:25:26  <rubenwardy_> it shouldn't need to take any 90-deg
20:25:35  <rubenwardy_> ahhh
20:25:42  <rubenwardy_> I see one
20:25:57  <frosch123> anyway, also enable "show track reservation"
20:26:07  <rubenwardy_> the train on top wants to go left
20:26:08  <rubenwardy_> will do
20:26:52  <rubenwardy_> the only track that changed color is the one where the training is looping
20:26:53  <frosch123> another common issue is to forget electrification on some track pieces
20:27:00  <rubenwardy_> oh
20:27:04  <rubenwardy_> that is what I've done
20:27:09  <rubenwardy_> silly me
20:27:21  <rubenwardy_> thanks!
20:27:30  <frosch123> yw :)
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20:43:58  <andythenorth> supermop_home: stick a chimney on a normal truck, and paint the windows black (no glass)
20:44:01  <andythenorth> seems to work :P
20:44:58  <Vadtec> andythenorth: im playing FIRS for the first time, i really like the enhanced production levels and interdependency of all the industries
20:45:14  <Vadtec> makes train networks behave more normally
20:45:25  <andythenorth> which FIRS economy are you playing? :)
20:45:44  <Vadtec> 2.1.5
20:45:48  <Vadtec> oh
20:45:51  <Vadtec> der...
20:45:52  <Vadtec> sec
20:46:01  <Vadtec> temperate basic
20:46:20  <andythenorth> yeah that’s a nice one, not too big
20:46:24  <andythenorth>
20:46:44  <andythenorth> quite a nice flow, the chart shows it
20:47:04  <Vadtec> yeah
20:47:18  <Vadtec> the psycho in me wants to do extreme :P
20:47:55  <andythenorth> it isn’t crap, but I don’t like it very much
20:48:50  <andythenorth> In A Hot Country is pretty simplistic, quite relaxing usually, most things get exports
20:48:52  <andythenorth> exported *
20:49:03  <Vadtec> im about to saturate this line trying to keep up with chemicals lol...
20:50:11  <Vadtec> i better redesign this station before i get boxed in, or its gonna crush itself lol
20:50:16  <Vadtec> i love problems like this
20:51:15  <Alkel_U3> I'd like to try heart of darkness but I'd like a train set in the spirit of troprs set with it. Sadly that one's quite old and incompatible with some of the new cargos.
20:51:32  <andythenorth> one day I’ll finish making one :P
20:51:33  <supermop_home> iron antelope
20:51:42  <andythenorth> yup
20:52:48  <Alkel_U3> that's a new roster for iron Horse?
20:53:10  <andythenorth> yup
20:53:20  <andythenorth> mostly playable
20:53:27  <andythenorth> but the graphics are unfinished
20:53:33  <supermop_home> it seems more or less done
20:53:41  <supermop_home> what sprites are needed?
20:53:48  <andythenorth> various steam engines
20:54:00  <andythenorth> can’t remember which
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20:54:49  <Alkel_U3> can I get my hands on the developement version somwhere or are you just saying "soon"? :-)
20:54:54  <supermop_home> icjk
20:55:04  <supermop_home> I cant draw steam for you
20:57:34  <andythenorth> Alkel_U3: version here should include Antelope roster
20:57:46  <andythenorth> the parameters might be buggy
20:57:55  <Alkel_U3> thanks
20:58:22  <andythenorth> yeah it’s on roster 2, keep clicking the roster parameter until it shows up
20:58:32  <andythenorth> it needs Termite
20:58:38  <andythenorth> most of the trains are narrow gauge
20:59:09  <andythenorth> ach NCG beat me: 129% food, 39% explosives, 113% peat
20:59:12  <andythenorth> :X
20:59:40  <andythenorth> 120k tonnes goals, 16 years (actually 15 due to the NCG bug)
21:00:02  <Alkel_U3> then I better learn fast to code that dual-gauge track in nml :-)
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23:13:24  <Wolf01> 'night
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