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07:28:11  <andythenorth> thanks
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08:17:35  <andythenorth>
08:17:41  <andythenorth> (sort by ‘colour’)
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10:45:42  <andythenorth> eh, cargo prop 14 "Color for the cargo payment list window”
10:45:51  <andythenorth> what happens if the value is 0?
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13:05:24  <supermop_home> can figure out stacking at all
13:06:03  <supermop_home> nml docs seem like they are skipping over a lot of prior knowledge I should have
13:14:10  <supermop_home> if I put "XXX_FLAG_SPRITE_STACK" in misc flags - I assumed the XXX should be ROADVEHS
13:14:21  <supermop_home> but nmlc doesnt recognize that
13:15:46  <supermop_home> andy, do you have and stacking code in nml? I only saw python stuff on sam on devzone
13:18:41  <supermop_home> also frosch's example doesn't contain the "STORE_TEMP(CB_FLAG_MORE_SPRITES | recolouring, 0x100)" line from the docs
13:19:51  <FLHerne> supermop_home: In, it's `ROADVEH_FLAG_SPRITE_STACK` without an S
13:20:15  <supermop_home> OH
13:20:22  <supermop_home> well hope that helps
13:20:25  <FLHerne> It's all Python, the source is the ultimate documentation :P
13:21:06  <FLHerne> Oh, it is in the docs too
13:21:10  <supermop_home> still don't really understand frosch's switch but ill see if it works cargo-cult style
13:21:20  <FLHerne> -- ROADVEH_FLAG_SPRITE_STACK is under misc_flags
13:21:51  <frosch123> andythenorth: colour 0 is only transparent within sprites
13:21:57  <frosch123> in other places it will turn out as black
13:25:30  <frosch123> supermop_home: CB_FLAG_MORE_SPRITES is the 0x80000000 in my code
13:25:44  <frosch123> my code is from before those constants were added to nml, so it contains the raw values
13:26:17  <supermop_home> can I change that directly to CB_FLAG...etc ?
13:29:20  <frosch123> <- simplified
13:29:26  <frosch123> without the recoloring stuff
13:29:58  <frosch123> replace NNN with the index of the last part
13:32:17  <frosch123> andythenorth: but it is preferred to use 1 for black
13:32:30  <frosch123> though technically it is #101010
13:33:02  <frosch123> andythenorth: that page needs a filter selection for climates btw :)
13:33:03  <andythenorth> I wondered if it was valid or accidental
13:33:11  <andythenorth> I might change the 0s to 1s
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13:45:20  <supermop_home> it says "ungrecognized identifier 'CB_FLAG_MORE_SPRITES' encountered
13:46:20  <supermop_home>
13:47:44  <frosch123> what nml version do you have?
13:48:26  <frosch123> you need one that is newer than 2016-10-16
13:48:48  <supermop_home> unknown
13:48:48  <supermop_home> Library versions encountered:
13:48:48  <supermop_home> PLY: 3.4
13:48:48  <supermop_home> PIL: 1.1.7
13:49:10  <supermop_home> Its the one that works with NRT
13:49:19  <supermop_home> assume there is only one of those
13:49:44  <supermop_home> --version returns the above lines starting with 'unknown'
13:50:35  <frosch123> nrt nml started 2016-09-24
13:50:39  <frosch123> we never synced it :)
13:50:47  <frosch123> i'll build a new one for you
13:50:58  <supermop_home> :o
13:51:22  <frosch123> actually... andythenorth: how did you pull nml from hg -> git?
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14:07:03  <andythenorth> frosch123: I just imported using github UI
14:07:07  <andythenorth> iirc
14:07:16  <frosch123> can that also pull again?
14:07:24  <andythenorth> likely yes
14:07:35  * andythenorth tests
14:07:46  <frosch123> i didn't find anything, but maybe it's because it's your repository
14:07:51  <supermop_home> do people really need refridgerated trams
14:08:13  <frosch123> usually they just call it air conditioning
14:08:32  <andythenorth> hmm, not so much in github for this
14:08:38  <andythenorth> either have to use a hg-git bridge
14:08:41  <supermop_home> I mean for food - they can use road hog for that
14:08:52  <andythenorth> or we code review NRT stuff and move it into a branch on official nml
14:08:56  <andythenorth> :P
14:09:10  * andythenorth biab, wifi admin
14:11:12  <supermop_home> just add nrt to trunk
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15:02:50  <frosch123> andythenorth: i found some way
15:03:35  <andythenorth> ?
15:03:46  <frosch123> to transfer changesets
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15:07:35  <andythenorth> using the github UI, or something else?
15:08:18  <frosch123> i converted the complete repository again using git remote extensions
15:08:31  <frosch123> then transfered the patches with git methods, format-patch and am
15:09:14  <andythenorth> nice
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15:14:54  <frosch123> supermop_home: <- try again
15:15:03  <supermop_home> coool
15:15:07  <supermop_home> thanks!
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15:21:59  <andythenorth> hmm
15:22:13  <andythenorth> could we code review the nmlc fork?
15:22:25  <andythenorth> or do we wait to see if spec evolves?
15:22:38  <frosch123> i think i already checked nml last year
15:22:49  <frosch123> but someones needs to finish the ottd part :)
15:23:17  <andythenorth> the example grfs I made are a bit ropey :P
15:23:23  <andythenorth> but not inclined to shiny them
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15:27:13  <andythenorth> what label should I use for Feldbanh / Decauville stuff?
15:27:59  <andythenorth>,-neu1.jpg
15:29:35  <frosch123> NAAN according to Eddit's
15:29:59  <frosch123> narrow gauge, lowest speed and axle load, no electrification
15:30:30  <andythenorth> such electric version
15:30:35  <andythenorth> but eh, not in my plan
15:30:36  <frosch123> also used in french set for Narrow gauge, unelectrified
15:30:50  <frosch123> anyway, any difference between feldbahn and narrow gauge?
15:31:37  <supermop_home> andythenorth: I use RLOW
15:31:37  <andythenorth> density
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15:32:10  <frosch123> density?
15:32:28  <supermop_home> saying narrow gauge seems redundant for tramtype unless you want to specify this is like 1 foot or 600mm and no other trams can fit on it
15:32:46  <andythenorth> two directions per tile, and no need for signals
15:32:49  <andythenorth> also station density
15:32:54  <supermop_home> different between SG and NG trams doesn't really show up in Openttd
15:33:31  <andythenorth> trams are for town and big industry
15:33:38  <frosch123> well, if it's a tram type, then as supermop says
15:33:46  <supermop_home> so unless your feldbahn is meant to be 'smaller than other tiny industrial trains' idk if you need it
15:33:55  <andythenorth> dunno what it is, but it’s an update to the HEQS trams
15:34:01  <andythenorth> maybe the label should be HEQS :P
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15:35:06  <supermop_home> if HEQS can run on my docklands tiles without me needing to add more types id' be happy
15:35:33  <andythenorth> what is RLOW then?
15:35:46  <supermop_home> low speed rail
15:36:00  <supermop_home> the shittiest tramway in unspooled
15:36:12  <supermop_home> regular is RAIL or ELRL
15:36:55  <supermop_home> don't need to call it NG because regular trains will never end up on a tramway tile
15:36:58  <supermop_home> yet
15:39:57  <andythenorth> I am not worrying about it being NG or not :)
15:40:04  <andythenorth> it’s just some kind of industrial rail
15:40:16  <andythenorth> like I called it HAUL rather than mud-road or whatever
15:40:39  <andythenorth> hmm
15:41:17  <supermop_home> ok
15:41:48  <andythenorth> I had the idea that all HAUL might be un-articulated
15:41:51  <andythenorth> and can use drive in stops
15:41:54  <andythenorth> might be stupid
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15:42:10  <supermop_home> Tonka trucks will be a tight squeeze
15:42:11  <nekomaster> well now I need help again >_>
15:42:49  <nekomaster> I need NML code to change the graphics of a Doodlebug when its refit so that it has a sprite for carring passengers, and a sprite for when its refit for goods or mail
15:43:36  <nekomaster> I tried making some code from 2cc trains code but I can't get it to work because the compiler complains about an unexpected token "switch"
15:44:15  <supermop_home> nekomaster try this, but with other spritegroups obviously:
15:44:31  <supermop_home>
15:45:01  <supermop_home> if the switch is unexpected token you probably forgot a } or ; or something before it
15:45:27  <supermop_home> brb laundry
15:45:30  <nekomaster> thing is I checked over it
15:45:39  <andythenorth> paste
15:46:26  <nekomaster>
15:46:46  <nekomaster> Then I use this switch in the graphics section
15:46:48  <nekomaster> switch_RAILBUS_DIESEL_NG_DOODLEBUG_cargo_selection;
15:47:08  <supermop_home> whats on line above that in the graphics cbs
15:47:22  <supermop_home> maybe you missed a : there
15:47:24  <supermop_home> ;
15:47:32  <nekomaster> what?
15:47:41  <nekomaster> graphics cbs?
15:47:43  <Alberth> show some lines before
15:48:20  <nekomaster>
15:48:26  <nekomaster> can just check my code there
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15:50:22  <Alberth> to close "Engine-mail"  thingie?
15:50:30  <Alberth> +}
15:52:28  <andythenorth> nekomaster: unclosed spriteset
15:52:33  <nekomaster> yeah
15:52:36  <nekomaster> didnt see that
15:53:05  <andythenorth> we need a more helpful linter in nml :P
15:53:36  <andythenorth> although linters sometimes mean you now have 2 problems
15:53:44  <nekomaster> hmm?
15:53:48  <nekomaster> whats a linter?
15:53:57  <andythenorth> checks code syntax
15:54:01  <nekomaster> ahh
15:54:02  <andythenorth> finds missing brackets etc
15:54:10  <andythenorth> sometimes they are unhelpfully strict
15:54:25  <andythenorth> or they aren’t updated
15:55:03  <nekomaster> so when I refit to mail with my code it shows part of the ? icon thingy
15:55:09  <nekomaster> as if theres nothing or its corrupted
15:55:18  <andythenorth> frosch123: useful, or just colour vomit?
15:55:30  <nekomaster> ok never mind
15:55:43  <nekomaster> must have tried reloading the grf before the compiler was finished
15:56:01  <andythenorth> that will occasionally crash openttd ;)
15:56:05  <nekomaster> yeah
15:56:10  <nekomaster> in my case it didnt crash
15:56:21  <nekomaster> just froze for a moment and then showed a corrupted sprite
15:56:26  <nekomaster> I reloaded my GRF's and it works
15:59:19  <nekomaster> So now I have a narrow gauge doodle bug :)
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16:00:06  <nekomaster> also why does the compiler/game not sort things as I've sorted it, like my doodle bug is in the wrong spot in the steam engines section in the list
16:00:14  <nekomaster> its not listening to me!
16:12:26  <nekomaster> :|
16:13:50  <frosch123> andythenorth: it's useful for figuring out whether the colors are unique
16:14:31  <frosch123> but i never use the cargo charts, so i would not care about the colors anyway :)
16:15:27  <frosch123> steel town has many duplicate colors
16:15:38  <frosch123> hardly green
16:16:48  <nekomaster> So, any idea how to force the sorting set up I have?
16:17:05  <nekomaster> its kind of annoying things get out of order for no good reason
16:26:36  <andythenorth> frosch123: steeltown is a victim of copy-paste for the python cargo files currently :)
16:26:43  <andythenorth> nekomaster: you just need to force the sort order
16:26:49  <nekomaster> I dunno how
16:26:54  <nekomaster> i have a vehicle sort
16:27:00  <nekomaster> but the game isn't using it
16:27:17  <andythenorth> sort(FEAT_TRAINS, [id, id, id])
16:27:18  <andythenorth> or so
16:27:23  <andythenorth> at the top of your nml
16:27:27  <andythenorth> or near the top anywya
16:27:31  <nekomaster> which nml?
16:27:44  <nekomaster> and what do you do with the id?
16:27:49  <andythenorth> usually after the grf {} block
16:28:21  <nekomaster> in the header.pnml?
16:28:25  <andythenorth>
16:28:39  <andythenorth> example from Iron Horse
16:40:25  <nekomaster> this is going to be tedious
16:44:16  <andythenorth> templating :P
16:44:32  <nekomaster> I dont think you can template the id
16:44:37  <nekomaster> not the sorting thing
16:44:40  <andythenorth> I do :)
16:44:54  <andythenorth> unfortunately there’s a big gap between ‘coding using nml'
16:44:58  <andythenorth> and ‘templating your entire set'
16:44:59  <andythenorth> :P
16:45:22  <nekomaster> unless you have a way to automatically put all the ID's in, that'll have to be done by hand
16:45:22  <andythenorth> smaller colour vomit
16:45:49  <andythenorth> you’re right, it does have to be manual
16:45:59  <andythenorth> even in Iron Horse, I set the buy menu order manually
16:47:08  <andythenorth> you might be able to use the text IDs, not the numeric ones
16:47:09  <andythenorth> not sure
16:47:11  <andythenorth> haven’t tried :)
16:47:41  <nekomaster> you mean like ITEM_STEAM_NG_280_CONSOLIDATION ?
16:47:47  <Alberth> sort on stats?
16:48:00  <andythenorth> supermop_home: versus
16:48:10  <andythenorth> colour chips - intrusive vomit, or a nice touch?
16:48:20  <andythenorth> and if the cargo colours are there, should I also do the map colour?
16:48:27  <andythenorth> (for industries)
16:49:02  <supermop_home> don't mind the colors
16:49:31  <supermop_home> map color maybe - I never remember what they are
16:50:22  <andythenorth> do the colours make the list harder to read?
16:50:28  <andythenorth> or is it already quite hard anyway?
16:51:10  <supermop_home> frosch123 it still doesn't recognize 'ROADVEH_FLAG_SPRITESTACK'
16:51:22  <andythenorth> what if I lined them up in a table?
16:51:23  <andythenorth> hmm
16:54:43  <frosch123> supermop_home: it has an underscore SPRITE_STACK
16:55:04  <supermop_home> :(
16:55:06  <supermop_home> oops
16:57:22  <frosch123> andythenorth: the problem is the sorting
16:57:31  <frosch123> the list is alphabetical
16:57:42  <frosch123> but what is the point of looking up a color?
16:57:53  <andythenorth> In economies page?  None
16:58:03  <andythenorth> I was thinking to use a table to make them follow a grid
16:58:05  <frosch123> you could plot them in a HUE disc possibly, to tell the distance
16:58:11  <frosch123> but otherwise there is no point in the colors
16:58:37  <frosch123> it there any schema in the colors, or are they just random?
16:58:53  <andythenorth> derived from original TTD
16:58:58  <andythenorth> then ‘looks like the cargo'
16:59:01  <andythenorth> then ‘fill the gaps'
16:59:26  <andythenorth> I am 50% this page is a case of ‘just because you can doesn’t mean you should’
16:59:32  <andythenorth> i.e. colours are just noise
16:59:40  <frosch123> probably
16:59:58  <frosch123> colors have a purpose in yeti iirc
17:00:04  <frosch123> since they reflect the cargo chains
17:00:11  <frosch123> but that does not work in firs
17:00:14  <andythenorth> yeah, this implies something of that sort
17:00:19  <andythenorth> but it’s not reality
17:01:23  * andythenorth removes it
17:13:00  <andythenorth> coloured bars?
17:13:01  <andythenorth> bad?
17:13:40  <andythenorth> also I should probably make all cargo colours unique, globally
17:18:10  <andythenorth> eh, what I should do is use the cargo icons
17:18:16  <andythenorth> in the html docs
17:22:39  * andythenorth removes the coloured bars :P
17:26:38  <supermop_home> apparently 3000 hp is too much?
17:26:56  <supermop_home> I got an error - action 0 property too large
17:38:56  <nekomaster> wtf?
17:38:57  <nekomaster> no
17:39:04  <nekomaster> 65535 HP is the largest you can go
17:39:13  <nekomaster> at least for a rail vehicle
17:43:37  <andythenorth> depends if you are setting the unit or not, iiirc
17:43:46  <andythenorth> there’s a few places where you might have to divide
17:43:50  * andythenorth would have to check
17:45:27  <frosch123> maximum power for rv via property is 2550 hp
17:45:44  <frosch123> perhaps you can get more by putting it into the graphics section
17:46:02  <nekomaster> also the vehicle sorting still isn't working
17:51:03  <andythenorth> turn it off and on again? o_O
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17:54:17  <Snail> yo andythenorth
17:54:21  <andythenorth> hi
17:56:30  <Snail> I’m looking at your new cargoes (again)
17:56:41  <Snail> BEANs… what kind of beans did you have in mind?
17:56:51  <Snail> red beans? green beans?… :p
18:00:36  <andythenorth> ha
18:00:39  <andythenorth> I had that question
18:00:40  <Snail> I need to find a way to make them look good in my wagons
18:01:05  <andythenorth> I added some hint text last week ;)
18:02:39  <andythenorth> feedback is welcome on the hint text, it’s hard to do well
18:03:18  <andythenorth> vehicle authors can / should do what they want, this is just guidance :)
18:04:37  <Snail> ok… only tropic though?
18:05:04  <andythenorth> only tropic basic currently
18:05:09  <andythenorth> who knows what 2018 might bring :)
18:05:43  <Snail> haha
18:05:54  <Snail> ok, so I’ll add support for that
18:06:04  <Snail> I might add 2 subtypes (fava beans, haricots verts)
18:07:23  <andythenorth> nice touch
18:07:34  <andythenorth> I researched a bit, there are a _lot_ of beans :P
18:18:51  <Snail> does anyone know what track labels the Japanese trackset uses?
18:18:54  <Snail> and Termite?
18:21:10  <frosch123> the japanese ones are on the wiki
18:29:25  <Snail> can’t find them on either or
18:29:46  <frosch123>
18:30:35  <Snail> thanks frosch123
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19:20:50  <andythenorth> the Termite labels can be found by digging through the code
19:20:57  <andythenorth> sorry, no convenient docs for them :P
19:21:38  <andythenorth> I am 99% certain it only reuses existing labels
19:22:52  <Snail> andythenorth: can you remember which ones?
19:23:01  <frosch123> <- ctrl+f for "label" there
19:23:01  <Snail> NGRL and ELRL… or NAAN, NAAE etc?
19:23:31  <frosch123> SAA3, NAAN, NAAE
19:23:34  <frosch123> only 3
19:23:51  <Snail> right
19:23:57  <Snail> so it should be compatible with my set
19:23:58  <andythenorth> I have no idea what it all means :)
19:24:03  <frosch123> there are a ton of "compatible" labels though
19:48:48  <Snail> andythenorth: other question
19:48:52  <andythenorth> yup
19:49:18  <Snail> you classified JAVA as Piece Goods
19:49:33  <Snail> so no raw coffee beans in open wagons? (covered by tarps)
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19:50:19  <andythenorth> depends on how you’re treating open wagons :)
19:50:39  <andythenorth> in my sets, open wagons are universal, refit everything except pax and mail
19:51:03  <andythenorth> but for the short answer, real-life coffee beans travel in sacks, so piece
19:51:45  <nekomaster> Gondolas and open wagons can be used for bulk and piece goods
19:51:53  <nekomaster> depends on what and how much you put in
19:52:19  <nekomaster> I imagine that you can easily put crates, wood chips, logs, steel coils, coal chunks/powder, etc
19:53:27  <nekomaster> @Snail, if your talking about Narrow gauge stuff, NuTracks and Termite both work for Narrow Gauge with the NGRL and ELNG labels
19:53:35  <andythenorth> it’s a vehicle set renaissance right now, eh?
19:53:36  <andythenorth> :)
19:53:52  <nekomaster> I use NGRL for the narrow gauge trains in NARS Add-on Set 2cc
19:54:04  <nekomaster> I wonder if there are any electric narrow gauge stuff in North america
19:54:15  <nekomaster> Industrial, Subway, metro, tourist line, logging, etc
19:54:20  <Snail> nekomaster: I think NuTracks works with the “NAAN” etc. scheme
19:54:27  <nekomaster> it still works with NGRL
19:54:32  <Snail> so it works with both?
19:54:34  <nekomaster> yup
19:55:03  <nekomaster> Just have to force Nutracks to load Narrow Gauge and High Speed Narrow Gauge because its detection seems to be a bit off, but NG Stuff will appear where it should
19:55:17  <Snail> yes, NuTracks is compatible with my set
19:55:24  <Snail> the problem was the Japanese set
19:55:30  <Snail> and I haven’t tried Termite yet
19:55:45  <andythenorth> I am going to fold Termite into Iron Horse at some point
19:55:52  <Snail> only issue with NuTracks is 3rd-rail NG vehicles
19:55:57  <andythenorth> I can’t be arsed with separate railtype and train grf
19:55:58  <Snail> coz I don’t think it supports NAA3
19:56:00  <nekomaster> Yeah
19:56:09  * andythenorth will have to pay the fine
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19:56:51  <nekomaster> I kind of prefer to have the ability to load my own rail type grf or have the train set with parameters to disable its own railtypes if I so wish
19:57:29  <andythenorth> I will include a parameter
19:57:42  <andythenorth> but if you disable it, you’ll miss trains
19:57:45  * andythenorth [shrug]
19:57:49  <Snail> nekomaster: I agree, but the problem arises when a trackset uses labels that are not compatible with a trainset
19:58:08  <nekomaster> Well thats why people should maybe use existing lables
19:58:14  <Snail> for example I can’t use the Japanese tracks with French trains, because the former adopt the NGRL way
19:58:20  <Snail> yep
19:58:23  <nekomaster> or a proper table should be made like how theres one for the cargos
19:58:53  <Snail> there is one but it’s incomplete —>
20:02:20  <andythenorth> and what’s out there is already out there :P
20:02:29  <nekomaster> yeah
20:02:44  <nekomaster> I just hope thigns dont get too tcrazy with RATT's
20:02:57  <nekomaster> last thing we need is 100 lables for HIGHWAY
20:02:59  <nekomaster> HGWY
20:03:03  <nekomaster> HIWY
20:03:12  <nekomaster> HWAY
20:03:41  <supermop_home> add a motorway
20:03:48  <Snail> problem is, everyone wants to make their own standards :D
20:03:51  <supermop_home> incompatible with highway
20:04:13  <supermop_home> I thought about adding bus guideway
20:04:13  <nekomaster> I imagine that there should be some standardisation
20:04:25  <supermop_home> in real life I hate BRT though
20:04:32  <supermop_home> I also hate buses
20:04:42  <supermop_home> but here I am week after week making a bus set
20:05:09  <nekomaster> If I where going to do a road type set, id probably use these
20:05:09  <nekomaster> GRVL, STON, ASPH, INTR, HWAY, AUTO
20:05:26  <supermop_home> you need ROAD
20:05:29  <nekomaster> oh yeah
20:05:35  <supermop_home> else towns wont have anything
20:06:15  <nekomaster> Would it be possible to set what road type towns spawn with?
20:06:25  <supermop_home> not yet
20:06:30  <nekomaster> because in starting in 1980 in north america feels weird having stone pavement
20:06:32  <supermop_home> wolf was working on that
20:06:34  <nekomaster> Ahh
20:06:38  <nekomaster> Hmm
20:06:51  <nekomaster> What about just switching around some code for what is ROAD
20:07:12  <nekomaster> like it can be changed to act like stone paved roads or asphalt/city roads
20:07:36  <nekomaster> either way
20:07:50  <nekomaster> If someone like me doesnt like it I can always just rebuild the roads
20:08:44  *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd
20:08:48  <Wolf01> o/
20:08:57  <nekomaster> ey, speak of the devil
20:09:23  <Wolf01> I'm back from a 2 days lego meeting
20:09:24  *** Hiddenfunstuff has quit IRC
20:09:32  <nekomaster> heh
20:09:36  <Wolf01> Back with more lego too
20:09:38  <Wolf01> XD
20:09:39  <nekomaster> Nice
20:09:45  <Wolf01> Purchased the Saturn V
20:09:47  <nekomaster> hey, got any train lego stuff?
20:09:48  <nekomaster> ooh
20:10:01  <nekomaster> I wonder if someone could actually make a functional rocket with lego
20:10:15  <Wolf01> Trains are too expensive both money and space wise
20:10:30  <Wolf01> But there were a lot of trains
20:10:45  <supermop_home> "i bought a Saturn V because a train was too expensive"
20:11:12  <Wolf01> XD
20:11:40  <supermop_home> nekomaster: in unspooled ROAD is stone paved with like a 60kmh speedlimit
20:11:45  <nekomaster> yeah
20:11:47  <nekomaster> I konw
20:11:50  <nekomaster> I have tried it
20:11:58  <supermop_home> you make make road whatever you want
20:12:01  <nekomaster> I wish I coudl have RATT and JGR or Spring Patch pack
20:12:12  <supermop_home> just so long as ROAD is in game somehow
20:12:15  <nekomaster> but not like RATT is even in the stables or nightlies yet
20:12:37  <supermop_home> you could even make ROAD a chairlift that no vehicles can drive on
20:12:44  <nekomaster> heh
20:12:53  <nekomaster> hmm
20:13:08  <nekomaster> what stupid things could we do with RATT?
20:13:22  <nekomaster> A super road? Designed for super high speed vehicles
20:13:58  <supermop_home> well I actually am planning on doing chairlifts, gondola etc, but the catenary code isn't quite flexible enough
20:13:59  <Wolf01> <nekomaster> what stupid things could we do with RATT? <- the same stupid things one can already do with railtypes
20:14:04  <nekomaster> lol
20:14:13  <supermop_home> you can't draw poles in center of tile
20:14:31  <Wolf01> We should address that
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20:14:36  <nekomaster> Can't even force offsets or move the sprite?
20:15:00  <supermop_home> you can have 'rear' poles that RVs are drawn over
20:15:09  <andythenorth> center catenary might not be a bad move
20:15:15  <andythenorth> but what about in cross-roads?
20:15:18  <supermop_home> and 'front' poles that draw over RVs
20:15:29  <nekomaster> Cross roads might have to have no pole in the middle
20:15:46  <supermop_home> but not yet a center pole that has some more sophisticated draw order
20:16:27  <supermop_home> when i think foobar was first drawing tramtracks  a long time ago he wanted center poles, but couldn't make it work
20:16:31  <andythenorth> Wolf01: can do that
20:16:46  <andythenorth> just need to move the pole behind the first layer of vehicles
20:16:55  <andythenorth> ‘easy’ :P
20:17:09  <supermop_home> nekomaster: the center poles would likely be at the center of tile edge in most cases
20:17:13  <nekomaster> but what about the other direction
20:17:46  <nekomaster> stuff behind the poles
20:17:51  <supermop_home> you can also draw junction catenary to not have any poles
20:18:42  <supermop_home> another thing road catenary misses - you can't have the poles spaced out every 2-3 tiles like on train tracks
20:19:06  <nekomaster> hmm
20:19:18  <nekomaster> would it be possible to have a road type with a grass median?
20:19:23  <nekomaster> a small one that is
20:19:35  <andythenorth> it could be drawn on
20:19:40  <andythenorth> as long as it has no z-height
20:20:00  <andythenorth> or leave a gap, and let ground tile show
20:20:08  <nekomaster> Hmm, too bad we couldn't have some benifit to haveing certain types of road
20:20:30  <nekomaster> like how in Cities skylines, tree lined or grass lined roads reduce noise and polution and makes people happier
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20:36:25  <supermop_home> andythenorth: if you can have a center catenary pylon, you can draw a tall median or hedge as a pylon
20:36:53  <supermop_home> ok finally got this to compile
20:41:45  <andythenorth> fixed all cargo colours :)
20:42:05  <supermop_home> my test tram thinks its a trolley bus
20:42:11  <andythenorth> (sort the table by colour for nice effect)
20:42:12  <nekomaster> lol
20:43:19  <supermop_home> odd
20:43:35  <supermop_home> I put road_type: my mistake
20:43:46  <supermop_home> but I set the type as ELRL
20:44:04  <supermop_home> yet it knows to run on ELRD compatible roads only
20:44:20  <supermop_home> nothing that says ELRL = ELRD in my code
20:44:33  <nekomaster> @andythenorth yeah, that sorting thing isn't working
20:44:36  <supermop_home> I wonder if this could be useful
20:44:44  <nekomaster>
20:44:57  <nekomaster> things still aren't listening to me
20:45:14  <andythenorth> nekomaster: paste your code
20:45:36  <nekomaster>
20:46:08  <andythenorth> nekomaster: does it compile ok?
20:46:13  <nekomaster> yes
20:46:21  <nekomaster> it compiles with no warnings
20:46:37  <andythenorth> your IDs are all in numerical order
20:46:51  <andythenorth> that will give you same order as without the sort property ;)
20:46:52  <nekomaster> yes, but things aren't staying in that order
20:47:08  <nekomaster> I want things to be in numerical order and things are not
20:47:20  <andythenorth> what’s your buy menu sort set to?
20:47:22  <nekomaster> my narrow gauge passenger cars are all the way at the bottom of the freight wagon section
20:47:26  <nekomaster> Classic sort
20:47:58  <supermop_home> ugh too many trucks
20:48:49  <andythenorth> hmm
20:48:52  <supermop_home> 8 types of truck body * 5 generations of trucks * 2 styles of truck (rigid and semi)
20:49:11  <nekomaster> I have it set up in a certain way and somethings end up getting shoved to the bottom
20:49:27  <supermop_home> wish could just assemble cab + trailer like a train
20:49:27  <andythenorth> do all the vehicles have numeric IDs set?
20:49:32  <nekomaster> yes
20:49:45  <andythenorth> supermop_home: nah, I started a patch for that, but it’s bad
20:49:50  <andythenorth> nekomaster: I am stumped tbh :P
20:49:58  <andythenorth> there will be a reason, but can’t see it
20:50:05  <supermop_home> then I could have 1-2 tractors per generation rather than 8
20:50:13  <nekomaster> I could just link you to my project folder so you can look over the major files
20:50:28  <andythenorth> supermop_home don’t worry about the tractors, it’s 8 body styles
20:50:28  <nekomaster>
20:50:39  <andythenorth> you actually have fewer vehicles this way
20:50:53  <andythenorth> nekomaster: I would look, but bedtime here
20:50:58  <nekomaster> ahh
20:51:08  <nekomaster> i mean its not a game breaking thing but I want things to look clean
20:51:28  <nekomaster> this code eventually might be used to make a new NARS set of my own
20:52:25  <supermop_home> oops my 4th gen dual mode tanker semi forgot to allow a trailer to attach
20:52:51  <supermop_home> for an impressive capacity of 0L of chemicals
20:53:07  <supermop_home> maybe the driver can carry a jug in the cab
20:53:23  <andythenorth> gas :P
20:53:24  <Snail> andythenorth: how would you suggest to color “coke”?
20:53:24  <supermop_home> andythenorth before you go
20:53:27  <Snail> same as coal?
20:53:33  <andythenorth> Snail: like coal pretty much
20:53:57  <supermop_home> delivering vehicles: on flatbeds or a tractor pulling 3 tractors like they do here
20:54:10  <supermop_home> Snail I use same color as coal
20:54:15  <andythenorth> seems I just reused coal for coke in CHIPS
20:54:29  <andythenorth> supermop_home: dunno, vehicles is stupid
20:54:30  <supermop_home> yep
20:54:41  <andythenorth> vehicles are in daft units
20:54:52  <supermop_home> not uncommon to see trucks delivered that way here
20:55:21  <andythenorth> “Production: 8 vehicles”
20:55:42  <andythenorth> but the capacity of wagons is still 30 vehicles
20:55:52  <andythenorth> there’s no adjustment for unit size
20:56:03  <supermop_home> make it not piece goods
20:56:07  <andythenorth> vehicles should be just weighted in tonnes
20:56:19  <andythenorth> measured / weighted /s
20:56:28  <supermop_home> pourable bulk cars
20:56:49  <supermop_home> i'll take 40,000 liters of fiat punto please
20:57:00  <Wolf01> XD
20:57:05  <andythenorth> ‘x tonnes of vehicles’ looks stupid at the factory
20:57:17  <andythenorth> but the alternative is a PITA for vehicle grfs
20:57:41  <supermop_home> screw em
20:58:16  <supermop_home> ugh I start random games to test each compile of grf
20:58:36  <supermop_home> and think "ok need to check that the sprite stack works on that box truck"
20:58:37  <Wolf01> I think I'll throw myself on the bed
20:58:49  <nekomaster> unless theres something major, I just make a TEST SAVE that i keep reloading the GRF's in
20:58:59  <supermop_home> then spend 10 minutes trying to decide the nicest looking goods route to built to test it
20:59:04  <nekomaster> but I will make a new game if I think that something might be going on
20:59:42  <nekomaster> I pretty much just make two loops where one is flat land and the other goes up a steep mountain to test the traction and power
20:59:43  <andythenorth> ‘crates of vehicles’? :P
20:59:48  <supermop_home> then I identify the problems but by then I want to keep playing instead of fixing them and re-compiling
20:59:53  <nekomaster> Bags of vehicles?
20:59:59  <supermop_home> andythenorth: if the crate is big enough
21:00:08  <nekomaster> Perhaps 40 Units of Vehicles would be better?
21:00:35  <andythenorth> nice idea
21:00:45  <andythenorth> but I think units is too nothing
21:00:53  * andythenorth tries tonnes
21:00:57  <Wolf01> I can't understand why I'm looking at this from the pow of the starcraft dropship
21:01:04  <nekomaster> Thats how they package things sometimes
21:01:15  <nekomaster> Like for example, I'll see that a box has 7 units of bleach
21:01:19  <nekomaster> 7 jugs
21:02:59  <Wolf01> Like on elevators, you have "max 750kg", sometimes "max 750kg / 9 people"
21:03:06  <andythenorth> 21 axles of vehicles
21:03:22  <andythenorth> that’s how railroad vehicles are measured sometimes :P
21:03:30  <nekomaster> 9001 bushels of vehicles
21:03:45  <Wolf01> Measure vehicles in components
21:04:13  <nekomaster> then again, tonnes of vehicles kind of works for stuff because most cars are around or over 1 tonne
21:04:22  <nekomaster> like a 1780 kg muscle car
21:04:30  <nekomaster> or a 960 kg Lotus
21:05:30  <andythenorth> 300hp of vehicles
21:05:55  <nekomaster> 300 cubic meters of vehicles
21:06:24  <andythenorth> nice idea
21:06:32  <supermop_home> hmm nope, the dual mode trucks pantographs don't switch to lowered when on non-electric road
21:06:33  <nekomaster> like they're a gas
21:07:33  <andythenorth> bed
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21:20:56  <nekomaster2> my internet suddenly decided to be crap
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21:24:31  <supermop_home> wait huh the switch does work for the panto
21:24:39  <supermop_home> but not for the sparks
21:24:57  <supermop_home> it's still emitting diesel smoke under wires
21:32:22  <Wolf01> Maybe the type is cached in game
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21:54:57  <FLHerne> It works for UKRS2's cl73
21:55:10  <FLHerne> (on rail)
21:55:15  <supermop_home> hmm
21:55:51  <Wolf01> But RATT is experimental, it might not be fully supported
22:06:51  <supermop_home> now I need to figure out how to stack sprites in different orders depending on rotation
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