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Not 2 :P 14:11:26 <frosch123> 3 bays? 14:11:34 <andythenorth> stops 14:11:45 <andythenorth> there are some problems with this idea, but people often count wrong 14:11:46 <frosch123> drive-in has 2 bays, and a bottleneck for driving in and out 14:12:18 <frosch123> drive-through have two independent directions for enter/exit, no bottleneck, and as many bays as the vehicles are short 14:12:53 <Wolf01> "Return a filtered list of RoadSubTypes for the given RoadType, based on company and if to check for their introduction date" 14:13:29 <frosch123> Wolf01: if you pass a valid company, "any_date" is not even used 14:14:03 <Wolf01> There it misses a check 14:15:15 <Wolf01> Could I do this? return AddDateIntroducedRoadTypes(rt, company->avail_roadtypes[rt], any_date ? MAX_DAY : _date); 14:16:03 <frosch123> i would rather think that "any_date = true" mans to ignore "c" 14:16:07 <frosch123> *means 14:16:44 <frosch123> if something is available to some company at some point it time, it will be available to everyone at some time 14:18:13 <frosch123> CanBuildVehicleInfrastructure has the same problem 14:19:00 <Wolf01> Do roadtypes cease to be available to company when all vehicles for it expire? 14:19:15 <frosch123> it has like 4 input parameters (including _game_mode and disable_unsuitable_building"), but the function itself looks implausible to use them correclty in all cases 14:20:44 <frosch123> company_avail is set to zero 14:20:49 <frosch123> but, i have no idea 14:20:54 <frosch123> i would have to look it up myself 14:21:37 <Wolf01> I'll make a document with all the cases I can remember and think about 14:23:06 <frosch123> GetCompanyRailtypes seems to check both company_avail and intro_date 14:23:20 <frosch123> so, it uses company_avail to detect preview, but does not considere expiring vehicles 14:23:29 <frosch123> so railtypes remain available 14:23:40 <frosch123> possibly it's broken for roadtypes 14:29:50 <Wolf01> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pgtrp31sc/dunpcy 14:30:27 <frosch123> you added a password :p 14:30:31 <Wolf01> Meh 14:30:46 <Wolf01> Retry 14:30:51 *** Cubey has joined #openttd 14:31:16 <Wolf01> Stupid browser filling password fields 14:31:27 *** Maraxus has joined #openttd 14:31:31 <Wolf01> I didn't even check the "mark as private" 14:31:43 <frosch123> are those the rules from railtypes, or did you invent them? 14:32:28 <Wolf01> As railtypes can't do half of those things I invented them 14:32:35 <frosch123> gamescripts dintinguish deity-mode and company-mode 14:32:43 <frosch123> deity-mode should be equal to scenario editor 14:32:51 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 14:33:37 <Wolf01> Ok, so deity-mode is company=null, any_date=true, while company mode is the opposite 14:33:50 <frosch123> Wolf01: i think with making roadtype unavailable when you sell the last one of them, you make a lot of things more complicated, and inconssitent to trains 14:34:18 <frosch123> i always went for "make it work exactly like railtypes" 14:34:50 <frosch123> possbily with the deity/scenedit extension 14:35:51 <Wolf01> Yes, that's what I want to achieve, currently I don't think RATT make available a subtype without vehicles 14:36:51 <Wolf01> Deity is completely broken on base, and less broken with this patch 14:36:52 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 14:37:54 <peter1138> hi 14:37:58 <Wolf01> o/ 14:38:56 <Wolf01> Currently RATT is "can you build ROAD? Ok, you can build every subtype, same for TRAM" 14:40:04 <supermop_home> hmm i can't build tram right now 14:41:10 <Wolf01> Really? 14:41:32 <supermop_home> I only have one tram in my grf 14:41:43 <supermop_home> tramtype: ELRL 14:42:24 <supermop_home> tramtype translation table is { RAIL, ELRL } 14:46:45 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd 14:47:30 <Wolf01> Could I remove the "any_date" param and just check if the company is valid? Or there is an explicit case which needs to filter only subtypes available at the current date for deity? 14:52:44 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 14:54:41 *** Maraxus has quit IRC 14:58:15 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 14:58:15 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 15:05:26 <Wolf01> o/ 15:05:37 <__ln___> btw, thank you united kingdom for your gift to 100-year-old finland. i watched it live and it was cool. 15:05:47 <Wolf01> https://gist.github.com/Wolfolo/227add4fe83c57b165d4e1a84576e22e I tried with removing the any_date, as I always set it accordingly with the company, so it didn't make any difference 15:20:52 <Wolf01> And I renamed it to CanBuildRoadTypeInfrastructure and moved to road.cpp as the only relation to vehicles is an interal loop 15:22:49 <supermop_home> the tram still thinks it is a bus 15:23:21 <frosch123> you need to set the tram flag in the misc_flags 15:23:35 <frosch123> it's the only thing that distinguishes tram from roadvehicles 15:24:34 <supermop_home> hmm 15:24:53 <supermop_home> the tramtype doesn't do that? 15:25:13 <Wolf01> Nope, and I can't think why XD 15:25:50 <frosch123> no, possibly nml could be extended to check that stuff, but it's likely not easy 15:26:39 <Wolf01> Also I'm an idiot, I forgot to commit the staged changes 15:26:41 <supermop_home> also my articulated buses have smoke coking from both parts... should look in to fixing that 15:35:30 <Wolf01> Ok, pushed changes, the usage of those 2 functions should be more clear now, they still need fixes 15:40:06 <Wolf01> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=75637&p=1187581#p1187581 ??? 15:53:37 *** Gja has quit IRC 15:54:11 <Wolf01> Mmmh, I found a nice problem: I can't add a station to the vehicle schedule, but why? The first thought is that is not reachable by the pathfinder, but no error popup tell me it 15:55:29 <Wolf01> The second problem is that it was a freight station 15:55:52 <andythenorth> NML could grow ‘FEAT_TRAMS’, but as a method of eliminating a single flag, it seems heavy-handed 15:57:39 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 15:59:51 *** Gja has joined #openttd 16:00:46 <Wolf01> supermop_home, pylons on the background for asphalt paved road with overhead wire are drawn over the vehicles 16:01:38 <Wolf01> I don't know if it was fixed, but I think I have the latest unspooled grf 16:03:40 <Wolf01> http://imgur.com/HPyCdRD 16:26:32 <__ln___> i find this a bit more interesting: http://imgur.com/a/9biQh 16:27:02 *** glx has joined #openttd 16:27:02 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 16:28:38 <__ln___> (photo taken by me) 16:28:46 <Wolf01> Airshow? 16:29:27 <__ln___> indeed 16:37:35 <V453000> andythenorth: Use python they said. What could possibly go wrong I said. https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-194 16:45:48 *** gelignite has quit IRC 16:46:47 <Alberth> ha, very nice V :) 16:47:38 <Alberth> automagic generation always wins :p 16:48:57 <andythenorth> V453000: now generate the python that generates the lua ;) 16:51:38 <Wolf01> Automatic factorio is automatic 16:53:46 <andythenorth> what about automatic FIRS? 16:53:55 <andythenorth> Alberth: what to do about these map colours eh? :) 16:58:33 *** JacobD89 has quit IRC 17:01:37 <frosch123> V453000: the "generate .bat with python" definitely made me think of andy 17:02:12 <frosch123> anyway, i expect a factorio->grf converter next 17:04:53 <Alberth> the green thingie? not use it? :p 17:05:47 <Alberth> can't have 32bpp industry-map colours due to compatibility, probably 17:06:03 <Alberth> less industries works too 17:06:34 <Alberth> same-ish colours between non-conflicting chains perhaps? 17:06:37 <frosch123> hmm, there are formulas to compute the "visual distance" between colors 17:07:06 <frosch123> maybe we should write a python script to find the colors which stays ways from all the map colours and from themself each other 17:07:48 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 17:08:17 <Alberth> you may not have enough colours then 17:08:48 <Alberth> ideally you'd take the industry-chain into account, probably 17:09:30 <frosch123> chains cross a lot 17:10:04 <Alberth> declare it as bad chain :p 17:10:24 <frosch123> how about coloring primary, secondary, tertiary, harbour? 17:10:25 <Alberth> NML error: Cannot compute industry map colour 17:10:36 <frosch123> so you can start your game with the greenish industries 17:11:01 <Alberth> finding a specific source or destination becomes tricky? 17:11:03 * andythenorth wondered about contrast checking in nml https://www.w3.org/TR/2000/WD-AERT-20000426#color-contrast 17:11:12 <andythenorth> I’ve already got the palette computed as RGB 17:11:21 <frosch123> there is no point in doing it in nml 17:11:38 <frosch123> you only need to do it once, and the put a table onto the wiki: use these colors in this order 17:11:41 <Alberth> true, but fun :) 17:12:01 <andythenorth> I could do it in the FIRS compile 17:12:28 <andythenorth> is there a newgrf var for ‘current map colour’ :P 17:12:51 <frosch123> grf parameter :) 17:13:18 <frosch123> would also fit a color blind mode 17:13:46 <frosch123> i believe there were also formulas for color distance with typical color vision defects 17:13:50 <andythenorth> yes 17:13:56 <Alberth> contrast reduces to conversion to gray-scale, wouldn't it? 17:13:58 <andythenorth> we could do a high contrast OpenTTD :P 17:16:35 *** Gja has quit IRC 17:31:15 <andythenorth> hmm where are the map colours in src? 17:32:07 *** efess has joined #openttd 17:32:18 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 17:32:32 <frosch123> src/table/heightmap_colours.h 17:32:49 * andythenorth would not have found that by guessing :) 17:32:58 <frosch123> they are no rgb codes 17:33:13 <frosch123> it's tables of 4 colours for dithering 17:33:32 <andythenorth> which 4? 17:36:10 * andythenorth looks 17:37:23 *** smoke_fumus has joined #openttd 17:37:32 <frosch123> i looked for a color difference video on yt 17:37:44 <frosch123> i came to one that is a machine-read wiki page 17:38:27 <andythenorth> those are weird 17:38:34 <andythenorth> like machine-read news voiceovers 17:45:46 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27878 trunk/src/lang/vietnamese.txt (2017-06-10 19:45:37 +0200 ) 17:45:47 <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints: 17:45:48 <DorpsGek> vietnamese: 7 changes by nglekhoi 17:48:16 <andythenorth> maybe I should just sample the map colours, and write a guard :) 17:48:48 <frosch123> ah, there is a "colormath" python module 17:49:05 <frosch123> so, i do not need to understand the formulas 17:50:27 * andythenorth looks 17:50:50 <frosch123> let's try to find the theoretically best colors :) 17:51:51 <andythenorth> could OpenTTD just assign the colours? :P 17:52:17 <frosch123> if we find a good result, we could add a nml built-in function 17:52:23 <andythenorth> have to account for towns also :) 17:52:27 <frosch123> good_colour(1)..good_colour(200) 17:52:50 <andythenorth> oh water also :P 17:53:07 <frosch123> i'll only use land 17:53:23 <frosch123> you can figure out water yourself for water industries 17:53:52 * andythenorth considers counting how many unique colours in FIRS 17:54:12 <andythenorth> there is a lot of reuse (sort by colour) http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/code_reference.html#industries 17:55:54 <andythenorth> 44 colours by counting on my fingers :P 17:56:12 <andythenorth> for 80 industries 17:57:58 <supermop_home> Wolf01 the pylon issue is known 17:58:21 <supermop_home> the problem is, I have the 'top' of the pylon on the front layer 17:59:26 <supermop_home> because on a junction or corner, a pylon on the east or west corner is conceivably either front or back depending on route RV takes through the tile 18:00:01 <supermop_home> I had hoped that the top half of the pylon would be high enough to not show up on top of RVS passing 'in front' of the pylon 18:00:01 <frosch123> wtf... apparently this library knows so many diifferent color representations 18:00:12 <frosch123> that they are using graph algorithms to find conversion paths between them 18:00:18 <supermop_home> but unfortunately most RVs are taller than I thought 18:01:14 <andythenorth> frosch123: that is wtf :P 18:03:18 <supermop_home> if we can get more control over draw order/location of pylons could fix it that way 18:07:08 <andythenorth> Alberth: I’ve lost your link showing the disappearing peatlands :) 18:20:13 *** debdog has quit IRC 18:21:00 <Alberth> in-game, or in RL? 18:21:36 <andythenorth> IRL 18:21:43 <andythenorth> did you post it here? 18:22:03 <Alberth> if you've seen it, likely :) 18:22:18 <Alberth> MB posted some in the forum, which were nice too 18:23:02 <andythenorth> I mean the one showing the map colour bug, sorry :) 18:23:07 <andythenorth> English lacks precision 18:23:16 <andythenorth> I can’t reproduce it 18:23:17 <Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/peatfields.png 18:23:27 <andythenorth> ah, heightmap is on 18:23:54 *** efess has quit IRC 18:24:11 *** efess has joined #openttd 18:24:25 <Alberth> every now and then you have to manoeuvre around a heap of tiles :) 18:24:38 <Alberth> or in this case, move up :p 18:25:17 <Alberth> my pyrite mines were at the wrong side of a mountain iirc 18:25:52 <andythenorth> pyrite mine has horrible contrast on green map 18:26:03 <andythenorth> I am 100% NOT red-green colour blind, but I can hardly see it 18:26:19 <Alberth> ah, right, for me it's very visible :) 18:27:04 <Alberth> reading the name of the industry at the legend is becoming difficult though 18:34:18 <andythenorth> any reason? o_O 18:37:08 <Alberth> letters are too small to read without glasses :p 18:37:55 <Alberth> it's very weird when you notice you can't quite focus any more to read details 18:38:11 * andythenorth has glasses :P 18:38:25 <andythenorth> you have original base set font? 18:38:30 <Alberth> yep 18:38:48 <andythenorth> and 2x UI zoom? 18:38:58 <Alberth> or at least, something equally small :p 18:39:06 <Alberth> no zoom, just 1x 18:39:23 <andythenorth> ha 18:52:19 *** Smedles_ has joined #openttd 18:54:53 <frosch123> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pbmoxuslj <- how to validate? 18:55:01 <frosch123> i guess i should generate a html page or something 18:55:02 *** Smedles has quit IRC 18:55:40 <andythenorth> :) 18:55:49 <frosch123> hmm, found a bug 18:55:54 <andythenorth> seems FIRS forest is 100% invisible on dark green map 19:11:58 <Alberth> that's why it can flash white :) 19:16:48 <frosch123> https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/texts/industrymap_green.html https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/texts/industrymap_darkgreen.html https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/texts/industrymap_violet.html https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/texts/industrymap_green_darkgreen_violet.html 19:17:16 <frosch123> the result certainly looks weird to me, but not obviously wrong 19:20:10 *** Montana has joined #openttd 19:25:59 <andythenorth> lots of browns eh 19:27:09 <andythenorth> I am suspicious about 0x51 19:27:19 <andythenorth> seems that would disappear on dark green 19:27:20 <frosch123> i am assigning the colors in greedy mode 19:27:31 <frosch123> so it picks some red first, which then downgrades all other reds 19:27:41 <frosch123> it may be smarter to pick two different reds first 19:27:59 <andythenorth> can I just assign them to FIRS industries by ID :P 19:28:06 <andythenorth> industry 0 gets first from list 19:28:25 <frosch123> andythenorth: 0x51 is pretty far down the list 19:28:43 <andythenorth> oh it’s a distance thing? 19:28:44 <andythenorth> ok 19:28:57 <frosch123> all lists contain all the colors which are not map colors 19:29:06 <andythenorth> feel like converting the hex to dec? :P 19:29:07 <frosch123> the ones at the bottom are just very bad 19:29:29 <andythenorth> I’m intrigued how close I got to optimum by guessing 19:29:41 <frosch123> you can't compare that with that list 19:30:08 <frosch123> like the last list has b7 in first position 19:30:27 <frosch123> if you would have picked b6 first, then b7 would be far down the list 19:30:53 <frosch123> b6 and b7 are almost the same color, so once you have picked one, the other one is bad 19:33:10 <andythenorth> I see :) 19:39:35 <frosch123> reload page 19:39:44 <frosch123> i added decimal, and the CIE2000 distance score 19:41:49 <andythenorth> neat 19:42:30 <andythenorth> now how to apply it :) 19:42:41 <frosch123> cound how many industry you have in each climate 19:42:51 <frosch123> then pick the n-th first from the all-map-colors table? 19:44:34 <andythenorth> hmm could do 19:44:42 <andythenorth> means their colour varies per economy 19:44:54 <andythenorth> does original TTD do that too? 19:45:14 <frosch123> original ttd hardly shares industries 19:45:21 <frosch123> but they do not change colors 19:45:46 <frosch123> hmm, so, 0x68 and 0x46 look weird to me 19:46:03 <andythenorth> why? 19:46:30 <frosch123> they are almost the same, still so far up the table 19:47:32 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 19:48:54 <andythenorth> fair point 19:49:19 *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd 19:49:48 <frosch123> well, the formula says they have a distance of 14.977 19:50:07 <frosch123> so, blame the formula? or ban dark colors? 19:50:18 <frosch123> or accept it? 19:50:48 *** Montana has quit IRC 19:53:55 <andythenorth> accept it I think 19:54:08 <andythenorth> it hasn’t favoured many of the brights 19:59:26 <frosch123> https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/texts/color_distances.html <- possibly hard to read :p 20:00:02 <andythenorth> quite cool though 20:00:49 <frosch123> maybe i should add "black" to the map colors, to disencourage dark 20:02:03 <andythenorth> worth trying 20:02:35 <frosch123> reload, looks better to me 20:03:09 <andythenorth> yup 20:03:32 <andythenorth> now to also distinguish from town :) 20:03:47 <andythenorth> there is a reason all FIRS town industries are white or yellow :P 20:04:14 <frosch123> i think you may have to do that manually :p 20:05:03 <andythenorth> I could set colours automatically, unless over-ridden manually 20:06:12 <frosch123> add tags to colors: on sea, on land, in town 20:09:37 <andythenorth> multiple lists? 20:10:39 <frosch123> no idea whether you want to use the same color for two industries if one is on land and the other on sea 20:14:20 <andythenorth> sometimes 20:14:38 <andythenorth> unique colours isn’t a goal I’ve pursued 20:14:56 <andythenorth> I try to make them unique in a chain, and try to keep each economy looking nice as far as possible 20:20:24 <andythenorth> now all I have to do is automate it :) 20:20:29 <V453000> factorio->grf conversion sounds like a challenge "D 20:20:30 <V453000> :D 20:21:28 <andythenorth> what, make grfs in F? 20:21:31 <frosch123> code newgrf in factories 20:22:18 <frosch123> andythenorth: V added a picture to his blog, which showed the art pipepline as a f factory 20:23:29 <frosch123> even "kurzgesagt" just made a video about automatisation 20:23:47 <andythenorth> factory factory 20:29:51 *** Alberth has left #openttd 20:33:03 *** Montana has joined #openttd 20:35:04 *** JacobD88 has quit IRC 20:42:36 <andythenorth> frosch123: I’ll try automating now :P 20:42:44 <andythenorth> based on https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/texts/industrymap_green_darkgreen_violet.html 20:46:01 *** Maarten has quit IRC 20:46:40 * frosch123 is curious how it will actually turn out in-game 20:49:43 * andythenorth shall find out soon 20:52:07 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 20:57:32 *** Speedy has quit IRC 21:03:48 <andythenorth> frosch123: pushed 21:04:15 <frosch123> all economies? 21:04:23 <andythenorth> yup 21:04:24 <andythenorth> it’s global 21:04:34 <andythenorth> industry id => colour position in list 21:04:39 <andythenorth> quite crude 21:07:03 <frosch123> docs do not reflect it? 21:08:29 <andythenorth> they do here :) http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/code_reference.html#industries 21:09:35 <frosch123> didn't refresh hard enough i guess 21:09:58 <frosch123> lots of red, lots of yellow 21:10:05 <frosch123> very little blue 21:10:45 <frosch123> (when using steeltown) 21:11:40 <frosch123> maybe you are right with town colors 21:11:48 <frosch123> i have a stockyard next to a town 21:11:53 <frosch123> which is hard to see 21:12:17 <frosch123> but that restricts colors even more 21:12:33 <frosch123> andythenorth: do you have "show height" enabled on the industry map? 21:12:57 <andythenorth> currently yes 21:13:02 <andythenorth> usually not 21:13:03 <frosch123> if disables we could use more colors 21:13:20 <andythenorth> I see no use for it on industry view 21:13:34 <andythenorth> it doesn’t tell me anything I need to know 21:13:51 <frosch123> i have the map always set to industry view 21:14:00 <frosch123> the other map types are useless to me 21:14:16 <frosch123> in hilly terrain i toggle the height to estimate the best route 21:15:28 <andythenorth> fair 21:15:39 <andythenorth> well I’m not going to revert this 21:15:49 <andythenorth> but I’m not convinced it’s finished yet :) 21:16:04 <frosch123> it may require some manual assignment 21:16:08 <frosch123> for town industries 21:16:12 <frosch123> for sea industries 21:16:30 <andythenorth> over-rides 21:16:34 <frosch123> also it makes sense to pick similar colors for industries which you can distinguish by their size 21:16:47 <frosch123> like 1x3 vs. 8x5 can have similar colors 21:17:58 <frosch123> otoh, maybe small industries should use the more obnoxious colors 21:18:14 <frosch123> if a industry has only a few pixels on the map, it's hard to find 21:18:58 <frosch123> it also makes sense to use the colors with higher scores for those industries which appear in multiple climates 21:19:19 <frosch123> so you use the good colors in most economies instead of skipping them 21:19:26 <frosch123> s/climates/economies/ 21:21:19 <andythenorth> previously I have pretty much used those rules for manual picking :) 21:22:14 <frosch123> yeah, i basically suggest to use the first n colours from the list, and then assigning them manually :p 21:22:28 <frosch123> but i guess only assigning a subset manually is also fine 21:25:50 <andythenorth> I could repeat :P 21:25:57 <andythenorth> it’s rarely a problem 21:26:03 <andythenorth> first 40 or so :P 21:27:43 *** Guest2143 has joined #openttd 21:28:09 *** Guest2143 has left #openttd 21:37:12 *** Progman has quit IRC 21:39:42 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 22:08:17 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 22:09:48 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 22:31:05 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 22:33:29 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 23:11:18 *** Hiddenfunstuff has quit IRC 23:15:39 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 23:18:07 *** gelignite has quit IRC