Log for #openttd on 11th June 2017:
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01:34:40  <Wolf01> 'night
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06:09:59  <andythenorth> o/
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07:11:02  <Alberth> o/
07:37:56  <andythenorth> hi
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08:13:39  * andythenorth writing a big changelog :P
08:24:22  <Alberth>  Loads of changes, play the game, and find out!
08:24:37  <Alberth> diff attached for reference
08:31:58  <andythenorth> half the commits are “try x” and “x didn’t work, remove” :P
08:34:39  <Alberth> you're supposed to do that in a branch and delete the branch :p
08:34:58  <andythenorth> isn’t it :P
08:34:59  <Alberth> building a branch at the devzone is tricky I guess
08:35:03  <andythenorth> nah it’s fine
08:35:05  <andythenorth> I’ve done it before
08:35:54  <andythenorth> ‘drag and drop’
08:36:02  <andythenorth> 7 year old thought it was ‘dragon drop
08:36:06  <andythenorth> '
08:36:36  <Alberth> that'd much more interesting, at least :)
08:47:57  <andythenorth>
08:48:01  * andythenorth could use second eyes
08:52:51  <Alberth> woo, that's lots :)
08:54:30  <andythenorth> oops, found a broken list
08:55:05  <Alberth> I am not much fan of the word "improved"
08:55:20  <andythenorth> :P
08:55:37  <Alberth> vehicle industries not new?
08:55:57  <Alberth> farm a new industry?
08:56:09  <andythenorth> vehicle industries were in v2 ;)
08:56:14  <andythenorth> farm is a bit of a messy rename
08:56:25  * andythenorth might look at that some more
08:56:29  <Alberth> farm-ish industries are listed twice as new
08:56:31  <andythenorth> confuses people, including 7 year olds
08:56:43  <andythenorth> hmm yes
08:57:21  <andythenorth> seems I had farm before
08:57:54  <Alberth> hmm, did I ever reach vehicles with v2 then, I wonder :)
08:58:15  <andythenorth> looks like I changed farm a bit
08:58:52  <andythenorth> oh, I fixed the issue in IAHC economy where there is ‘arable farm’ and ‘farm’ which was confusing
08:59:03  <andythenorth> then I re-added farm where there is only one in the economy (Steeltown)
08:59:11  <andythenorth> makes total sense eh :P
08:59:21  <Alberth> improved industry graphics and layouts <-- is a mess, some is just listed, some have explanations, and some are huh? like "renamed to Assembly Plant"
09:00:29  <andythenorth> yeah, that was the broken list
09:00:31  <andythenorth> refresh :)
09:00:53  <Alberth> :O  much better :)
09:03:51  <Alberth> thhis  <-- Brwery line
09:04:47  <andythenorth> fixed thanks
09:07:10  <Alberth> codechanges, some is in current tense(?)  some is in past tense
09:08:13  <Alberth> "stopped setting multiple unnecessary properties ..." vs "stop setting zextents..."
09:09:54  <Alberth> lots of goodies! :)
09:13:35  <andythenorth> fixed a bit more
09:15:13  <andythenorth> ach Blast Furnace / Steel Mill is out of order in list :(
09:15:19  <andythenorth>
09:15:30  <andythenorth> as is Steel Finishing Plant / Metal Fabrication Plant
09:18:54  <andythenorth> sorted()
09:18:57  <andythenorth> literally :P
09:19:06  <Alberth> :)
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09:47:22  <Wolf01> o/
09:56:09  <andythenorth> ok
09:56:16  * andythenorth will make a 3.0.0-alpha-1
09:56:38  <Wolf01> and yes, I feel really bad to link this one XD
09:58:03  <andythenorth> :P
09:59:02  <Alberth> o/
10:00:22  <andythenorth> errr
10:00:33  <andythenorth> Bananas has no 1.7.0 option yet for min. OpenTTD :P
10:04:00  <andythenorth> hmm
10:04:06  <andythenorth> Bananas rejects firs .tar
10:04:14  <andythenorth> doesn’t allow .dotall files
10:05:27  * andythenorth mangles an archive
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10:36:14  <Alberth> not designed to distribute sources :)
10:42:02  * andythenorth will have to fix that some time :P
10:42:55  <Wolf01> Put the sources online and write the link on the readme?
10:43:28  <andythenorth> need to fix the makefile so they’re not included I guess
10:43:32  <andythenorth> something like that
10:50:55  * andythenorth bbl
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12:53:24  <Alberth> o/
12:53:28  <Wolf01> Quak
12:53:58  <frosch123> hoi
12:54:11  <frosch123> anyone else notices that we forgot to release 1.7.1?
12:54:40  <Wolf01> Uh.. yeah has been RC1 for a while
13:01:37  <frosch123> "thank you for developing this almost dead game" <- lol
13:01:45  <Wolf01> XD
13:02:01  <Wolf01> Wrong, we already said it is dead XD
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13:36:08  <frosch123> in response to an email i rewrote the section "contributing to the project" on the wiki last night:
13:36:12  <frosch123> anyone wants to check?
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14:04:23  <supermop_home> if I want to disable smoke for one segment of an articulated vehicle, do I have to use the effect_spawn?
14:09:51  <Alberth> should it also mention maintenance of AIs/scripts?   perhaps a bit tricky as there is often no author available any more
14:12:40  <supermop_home> or can I just have a switch that returns visual_effect_none for each  part after 0
14:14:43  <frosch123> supermop_home: the latter
14:14:51  <planetmaker> o/
14:14:54  <supermop_home> ok that sounds easier
14:15:00  <planetmaker> frosch123, nice write-up on "how to contribute"
14:15:32  <planetmaker> "Contributing to the main game" and " How can I obtain the source code?" seem a bit duplicate, though
14:15:35  <frosch123> Alberth: usually people start new projects. same for newgrf. just for basesets that approach does not really work imho
14:18:07  <Alberth> fair enough
14:18:35  <Wolf01> I would add "And there is Wolf01, don't be like Wolf01"
14:19:58  <frosch123> Wolf01: did i tell you that there was yet another mail asknig about ships?
14:20:04  <Wolf01> Aahah
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14:48:06  <supermop_home> hey frosch123, when I had my tram without the is tram flag set, how did it know to only run on ELRD
14:48:19  <supermop_home> if it had tramtype set to ELRL?
14:48:50  <supermop_home> like how does the game decide that ELRD is similar to ELRL
14:49:16  <Wolf01> They have a catenary flag
14:50:12  <supermop_home> does that mean that for dual mode bus, instead of testing for a big list of known electric road types, I could test instead for 'is there catenary'
14:50:12  <frosch123> supermop_home: the tramtype property does not know about ELRL or ELRD, it only knows 0,1,2,3
14:50:24  <supermop_home> hmm
14:50:36  <frosch123> apparently ELRL and ELRD were at the same position in your roadtype/tramtype tables
14:51:09  <supermop_home> oh
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14:55:35  <supermop_home> can I use position in consist and position in articulated veh interchangeably?
14:56:02  <supermop_home> ive been using _in_consist for articulated RVs and it seems to work fine
14:56:32  <frosch123> for rv it's the same
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15:01:47  <Alberth> o/ andy
15:02:49  <andythenorth> hi
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15:15:57  <Wolf01> o/
15:17:18  <LordAro> peter1138: i was gonna show off the route i did today, but jesus christ what you did
15:21:04  <peter1138> charidee
15:21:20  <andythenorth> new CHIPS
15:21:28  <andythenorth>
15:21:34  <andythenorth> such nml stations
15:22:00  <supermop_home> NML STATIONS?
15:22:43  <andythenorth> are not a thing
15:22:49  <andythenorth> sadlty
15:22:52  <supermop_home> :(
15:26:48  * andythenorth would like feedback on the new FIRS map colours
15:26:54  <andythenorth> the alpha is in Bananas now
15:28:59  <frosch123> did you preassign any?
15:29:39  <supermop_home> andythenorth ill test after next compile of my rvs
15:34:09  <LordAro> w
15:34:20  <LordAro> thank you phone
15:40:29  <andythenorth> frosch123: no haven’t set assigned any yet
15:40:33  <andythenorth> not sure what direction I’d be taking
15:40:42  <peter1138> LordAro, stupidly i did too much yesterday so i was a bit dead for the last 5 miles
15:40:46  <andythenorth> all the old values and code is still in place, it’s one line to change
15:41:00  * andythenorth did 7kms yesterday on a static bike :P
15:41:39  <peter1138> "hey guys i'm doing 100km tomorrow, let's do 125km to warm up!"
15:41:51  <LordAro> peter1138: "oh no" :p
15:42:01  <LordAro> how awful for you :p
15:42:28  <peter1138> ikr
15:42:31  <LordAro> but srs, good job
15:42:57  <LordAro> i need to work up to a century
15:43:31  <peter1138> i've only done two
15:43:40  <andythenorth> wonder if I could do 100km on a static bike
15:43:46  <andythenorth> how long does it take you to do it IRL?
15:43:52  <andythenorth> 4 hours?
15:43:56  <andythenorth> 3?
15:44:05  <peter1138> though i did 100 miles in a day recently when i did an 80 mile road ride and 20-odd miles on the MTB in the evening
15:45:44  <peter1138> 3:25 moving time today
15:46:04  <peter1138> very much flat out though
15:46:32  <andythenorth> no rests?
15:46:42  <peter1138> nope
15:46:55  * andythenorth might try for some high score on the static bike
15:47:00  <andythenorth> boredom kills me though
15:47:01  <peter1138> just stopping for traffic and a bicycle race at one point
15:47:04  <andythenorth> and it’s nothing like a real bike :P
15:47:14  <andythenorth> the saddle is designed for ‘comfort'
15:47:16  <peter1138> yeah i can't last 10 minutes on the static bike, too boring.
15:47:20  <andythenorth> so it’s completely uncomfortable
15:47:25  <peter1138> heh
15:47:54  <peter1138> my static bike is a recumbent which just means it has a stupid seat instead of a saddle
15:48:09  <andythenorth> interesting
15:48:14  <andythenorth> can it handle a laptop? :P
15:48:48  <peter1138> not without attaching a suitable surface to it
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16:36:43  <andythenorth> it’s all BR Trains eh? :)
16:36:48  * andythenorth can scrap Iron Horse
16:37:10  <Snail> hey andythenorth
16:37:17  <Snail> I’m doing some translations of your new industries
16:37:28  <Snail> peatlands = the mine where peat is produced?
16:37:54  <andythenorth> yes
16:38:01  <andythenorth> peat bog, peat mire
16:38:25  <andythenorth> dunno what the french is, but they have them in quebec etc
16:38:38  <Snail> right…
16:38:51  <Snail> I’ll do some research (I’m not that technical either :p )
16:39:12  <Snail> all this cargoes are available in Temperate, with the right industry type, I presume?
16:39:40  <andythenorth> cargos are available in all climates
16:39:45  <Snail> ok
16:45:13  <andythenorth> Snail:
16:47:32  <Snail> yes… that’s how I’d translate it
16:47:35  <Snail> tourbe
16:47:56  <Snail> “peatlands” would be “toubière"
16:48:31  <Snail> “boneyard” = ?
16:48:36  <Snail> what’s that? a graveyard? :D
16:52:56  <andythenorth>
16:54:02  <Snail> ok
16:56:29  <andythenorth>
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17:14:18  <andythenorth> might be rubbish, will look
17:14:58  <andythenorth> hmm
17:15:08  <andythenorth> intentionally empty, but that’s confusing to translators
17:16:31  <andythenorth> I’ll remove it
17:16:58  <Snail> thanks
17:18:37  <andythenorth> pushed
17:32:58  <andythenorth> FIRS 3 Alpha non-event eh :P
17:33:10  <andythenorth> supermop_home: it’s fun releasing grfs to silence :)
17:35:21  <frosch123> team up with silversurfer
17:36:27  <andythenorth> is that the cars guy?
17:36:35  <frosch123> yes
17:36:43  <frosch123> alternative you can pick the wolf route
17:36:51  <frosch123> and announce that firs3 will block transport by ship
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17:45:47  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27879 trunk/src/lang/polish.txt (2017-06-11 19:45:38 +0200 )
17:45:48  <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints:
17:45:49  <DorpsGek> polish: 19 changes by lion
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18:32:38  <Snail> andythenorth: you really like picturesque names for stations :p
18:47:57  <andythenorth> apparently :P
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18:59:19  * andythenorth needs ‘make bananas’ or something
19:01:02  <frosch123> all cool projects have it
19:04:16  <andythenorth> so bananas doesn’t like .dotall files
19:04:21  <andythenorth> what else is banned? o_O
19:04:28  * andythenorth has the source…somewhere :P
19:04:43  <frosch123> what is .dotall?
19:04:47  <frosch123> osx stuff?
19:07:52  <andythenorth> the graphviz files :)
19:07:56  <andythenorth> added by one frosch
19:10:41  <frosch123> i think the warranty already passed
19:11:00  <andythenorth> seems I might need to drop the docs for bananas
19:12:05  <andythenorth> I need to change something here?
19:13:15  <andythenorth> maybe line 100
19:14:10  <andythenorth> ach
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19:14:16  <andythenorth> brain freeze :P
19:14:29  <frosch123> where is the bananas target?
19:14:35  <frosch123> iirc you can also tell musa which files to ignore
19:15:09  <andythenorth> I don’t have a bananas target :)
19:15:11  <andythenorth> yet
19:15:15  <andythenorth> hmm, I could use musa
19:20:25  * andythenorth makes a tar manually 
19:50:36  <supermop_home> andythenorth
19:50:43  <supermop_home> been drinking bubbly rose
19:52:38  <supermop_home> going to a George Clinton concert soon
19:56:09  <supermop_home> what the hell is neo bulk
19:58:13  <andythenorth> o_O
19:59:09  <supermop_home> my covered hoppers support it whatever it is
19:59:30  <supermop_home> say it on the list of classes and was like 'better safe than sorry'
20:02:04  <andythenorth> it’s not here :)
20:03:19  <frosch123> it's an old name for non-pourable
20:03:29  <andythenorth> such classes :P
20:03:33  * andythenorth remembers that debate
20:04:18  <andythenorth> some of the weights here look suspicious
20:04:35  <andythenorth> why is FMSP 0.5625	?
20:04:39  <frosch123> supermop_home: non-pourable/neo-bulk says "open wagon, but not hopper wagon"
20:05:08  <andythenorth> unless you can tip the open wagon upside down
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20:13:48  <supermop_home> oops sounds like exact opposite of a covered grain hopper
20:16:21  <supermop_home> man how long have I been putting off drwing that arc furnace andy
20:17:47  <andythenorth> long enough :)
20:18:00  <andythenorth> you could amuse yourself with cargo icons :)
20:18:40  <supermop_home> damn the br trains produce forum pages at a prodigious rate
20:19:58  <frosch123> what is the forum page to sprite ratio?
20:20:46  <supermop_home> well seeing as each BR class and car within class seems to get 15+ liveries
20:21:07  <supermop_home> the sprites are quite numerous as well
20:21:26  <frosch123> oh, that's new then
20:21:30  <andythenorth> it’s impressive
20:21:41  <andythenorth> 5th time lucky :P
20:22:14  <andythenorth> they are even supporting most FIRS cargos
20:22:24  * andythenorth doesn’t have an army of foamers to draw sprites
20:22:26  <andythenorth> so automated it
20:22:55  <supermop_home> should really be 32bpp if trying to recreate all those post privatization brandings
20:23:22  <supermop_home> blue as br blue doesn't look quite right to me
20:23:46  <supermop_home> but then I never saw a br blue loco freshly painted, only faded
20:24:33  <supermop_home> I think ttd lightblue+orange is the best match for br blue large logo in my minds eye
20:25:06  <supermop_home> swallow et all have too many thin pinstripes to work with 1x 8bpp
20:25:06  <andythenorth> I think an aversion to literal realism is the best solution :)
20:25:39  <supermop_home> andythenorth give be a light blue 'uu 37' any day
20:25:48  <andythenorth> tractors :P
20:25:54  <andythenorth> new IH will be even less Brit realisms
20:26:12  <supermop_home> a 'sh 25' will also work
20:26:23  <andythenorth> supermop_home:
20:26:47  <supermop_home> andythenorth going to live in the uk in 97 was a field day for me coming off 3 years of playing tto
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20:27:05  <andythenorth> were there still proper trains in 97? :)
20:27:14  <supermop_home> and finding out the sh 125 was a real thing we could ride to London for a long weekend
20:27:38  <supermop_home> most GNER 43s were still in swallow in 97
20:28:12  <supermop_home> 158s to Manchester in regional railways - a treat
20:28:34  <supermop_home> our branch was all yorks pacers
20:29:01  <FLHerne> supermop_home: "Mainline" blue is closest IMO
20:29:32  <supermop_home> half in regional railways, half in the passenger transport executive red ish
20:29:51  <supermop_home> FLHerne ugh
20:29:59  <supermop_home> needs more green
20:30:26  <FLHerne> So does the OTTD sort? :P
20:30:46  <supermop_home>
20:31:18  <supermop_home> my secret shame - I use bing image search
20:31:42  <FLHerne> But blue OTTD trains really are overly-blue blue
20:31:59  <supermop_home> nearby in ilkly they had these emus with a shitload of doors down the side
20:32:06  <supermop_home> looked totally clapped out
20:32:15  <supermop_home> ilkley
20:32:23  <FLHerne> Oh, 309s?
20:32:32  <supermop_home> likely
20:32:45  <FLHerne> Those only lasted a couple of years up there afaik?
20:32:55  <supermop_home> FLHerne 'light blue' approximates well
20:32:58  <FLHerne> Sorry, not 309s anyway
20:33:15  <supermop_home> I only lived in Yorkshire 2 years
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20:33:40  <supermop_home> anyway, fancy nonetheless as Harrogate didn't even have wires
20:34:04  <FLHerne> 308s, I was only off by one :P
20:34:39  <FLHerne> You can't have missed the 333s by much, they're a lot shinier
20:34:53  <FLHerne> Whereas Harrogate still has Pacers :-(
20:35:07  <FLHerne> My aunt lives there, have to go on them sometimes
20:35:10  <supermop_home> FLHerne never saw a train that flash in yorks while i lived there
20:35:36  <supermop_home> we took pacers into leeds on the weekend to hang out and get up to no good
20:35:54  <supermop_home> pacers to York to see old stuff when relatives visiting
20:36:27  <supermop_home> pacers to either to catch a train to kx when we couldn't make the 1tpd 125 set
20:37:52  <supermop_home> only rode a 158 once seemed very lux
20:38:03  <FLHerne> It's /supposed/ to get shiny refurbished 158s on every service with the new franchise
20:38:12  <FLHerne> Not convinced
20:38:19  <supermop_home> 158s as a commuter train?
20:38:30  <supermop_home> not enough doors...
20:39:30  <FLHerne> Well, all the Pacers are going
20:39:31  <supermop_home> anyway first summr there, I bought N scale 08, ic 225 set, and regional railways 158 set
20:39:38  <FLHerne> Finally
20:39:54  <FLHerne> 150s are crap, and everything else has end doors too
20:40:21  <supermop_home> the 158 blew my mind - my favorite train from tt, the dash diesel, in real life
20:40:43  <supermop_home> andythenorth simon foster was a magician
20:41:38  <supermop_home> to plant in my mind with so few px and idea, that I immediately knew it, at 12 without ever seeing before, in the flesh (steel?)
20:42:15  <supermop_home> FLHerne never rode a 150 in my time in the uk
20:42:23  <supermop_home> maybe in carlise
20:42:54  <FLHerne> That seems odd, there are loads around Leeds now
20:43:01  <FLHerne> I assumed they'd always been there :P
20:43:05  <supermop_home> only had pacers bac then
20:43:29  <supermop_home> 158s ran to Manchester, everthing else was pacers
20:44:58  <supermop_home> rarely rode a non pacer, non intercity train
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20:45:41  <supermop_home> my stop was pannal, school in leeds,
20:47:12  <supermop_home> hmm, I tried to make an easter egg whereby you get a different livery if you buy a truck in the trial period,
20:47:29  <supermop_home> but now the buy menu shows the special livery all the time
20:48:18  <andythenorth> you can probably check for that
20:48:21  <andythenorth> but eh
20:48:25  <andythenorth> TMWFTLB
20:48:45  <supermop_home> the effect works in game as desired, just the surprise is ruined
20:56:10  <supermop_home> this rv set is 16000 lines
20:56:13  <supermop_home> is that a lot?
20:57:30  <frosch123> nuts is 54k lines
20:57:41  <frosch123> everyone else uses preprocessing
20:58:16  <frosch123> which makes it difficult to compare
21:06:41  * andythenorth has numbers
21:07:17  <andythenorth> RH is 70k lines
21:07:35  <frosch123> python or intermediate nml?
21:07:44  <andythenorth> final nml
21:07:56  <andythenorth> quite a lot of whitespace
21:08:57  <andythenorth> hmm now my texteditor hates me :P
21:09:04  * andythenorth tried to replace all whitespace on 70k lines
21:10:14  <frosch123> use "grep -c . hog.nml"
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21:14:55  <andythenorth> RH is 19k lines with all whitespace lines removed
21:15:27  <frosch123> 5/7 empty lines? :p
21:16:20  <andythenorth> apparently :)
21:16:36  <andythenorth> oh no that got rid of a bunch of other stuff
21:16:37  <andythenorth> nvm
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21:16:56  <andythenorth> is bed :)
21:16:56  <frosch123> including himself
21:17:03  <andythenorth> too much deleting :P
21:17:07  <andythenorth> bye
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