Log for #openttd on 15th June 2017:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:51:18  *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
00:56:48  *** Mazur has quit IRC
00:57:04  *** Mazur has joined #openttd
01:48:02  *** D-HUND has joined #openttd
01:52:03  *** debdog has quit IRC
02:02:04  *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC
02:08:02  *** Biolunar_ has joined #openttd
02:09:03  *** D-HUND has quit IRC
02:14:58  *** Biolunar has quit IRC
02:16:23  *** glx has quit IRC
03:37:48  *** Mazur has quit IRC
03:38:39  *** Mazur has joined #openttd
04:10:55  *** Montana has quit IRC
04:32:24  *** Arveen2 has joined #openttd
04:37:20  *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
04:37:44  *** Arveen has quit IRC
04:49:39  *** Montana has joined #openttd
04:57:02  *** Cubey has quit IRC
05:51:47  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
05:56:46  *** andythenorth has left #openttd
06:27:01  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
06:40:51  *** DDR has quit IRC
06:44:41  *** tycoondemon has joined #openttd
07:02:50  *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
07:28:58  *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd
07:33:44  *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd
07:33:54  <Wolf01> o/
07:34:22  <crem_> \o
07:34:23  *** Progman has joined #openttd
07:35:00  <frosch123> hoi
08:01:06  *** frosch123 has quit IRC
08:03:53  *** Hiddenfunstuff has joined #openttd
08:12:37  *** andythenorth has left #openttd
08:29:52  *** JacobD88 has quit IRC
08:42:44  *** sim-al2 has quit IRC
08:47:26  *** Montana has quit IRC
08:54:25  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
08:54:30  *** andythenorth has left #openttd
08:54:59  *** gelignite has joined #openttd
10:04:13  *** debdog has joined #openttd
10:37:56  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
10:39:32  *** andythenorth has left #openttd
11:06:54  *** Montana has joined #openttd
12:33:42  *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd
12:51:07  <supermop_home> is there any way to do math on a result of a switch?
12:52:07  <supermop_home> when I have "(switch_capacity_rb_open*7)/10"
12:52:28  <supermop_home> I get error that both operands must be intergers or floats
12:53:13  <Wolf01> Yeah, because this might happen
12:53:27  <supermop_home> is there a way to elsewhere take result of the switch and store it as a number?
12:58:32  <planetmaker> supermop, yes, there is a way. It's a complicated syntax but not really magic
12:59:19  <planetmaker> <-- see the [ ] in that example
12:59:47  <planetmaker> basically it means: use the temporary registers
13:00:39  <planetmaker> store the value of a calculation and load it again for re-using in another calculation
13:01:16  <planetmaker> that example is taken from ogfx-landscape has the full (pre-processed) code
13:01:59  <supermop_home> is the temp storage anywhere in the grf or does it have to be part of the item?
13:02:12  <planetmaker> hm... though that's not exactly what you are asking... it's doing the calculation *in one switch*
13:02:59  <planetmaker> STORE_TEMP and LOAD_TEMP are grf primitives always available. I *think* they live as long as a single decision chain is done
13:03:37  <planetmaker> but always properly initialize the storage with a value you want before you read it - it might contain garbage :)
13:04:36  <supermop_home> planetmaker ill ask more in 20 min, have to catch train
13:05:16  <planetmaker> it might be needed to do the calculation in one switch... I'm not sure anymore
13:05:19  <planetmaker> ok
13:08:19  *** Montana has quit IRC
13:11:08  <Eddi|zuHause> you can STORE_TEMP in an outer switch and LOAD_TEMP in an inner switch, but you cannot keep values over multiple callback runs
13:21:55  <supermop> hmm
13:30:46  <Eddi|zuHause> NFO also has a "function call" mechanism, where you use the return value of a switch in a calculation, but i think that was never implemented in NML
13:31:51  <Eddi|zuHause> there is also sommthing like STORE_PERM, but only for specific features like industries, not trains
13:32:36  <supermop> yeah
13:33:11  <supermop> i used to set all capacities with (param_capacity*X/2)
13:33:27  <supermop> where param defaults to 2, and x is the nominal capacity of that rv
13:33:55  <supermop> but i kept missing certain instances when updating bunch of vehicles
13:34:23  <supermop> so thought it would be easier to have a switch for each type of truck/trailer
13:35:38  <supermop> with a switch that takes param_capacity*x and returns that as the default result
13:38:10  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that is pretty much the same thing i wanted to use the function call for
13:38:41  <Eddi|zuHause> but then it was easier to modify my code generator than implement it in NML
13:42:31  *** sim-al2 has quit IRC
13:47:37  <supermop> HMM
13:49:44  *** Arveen2 has quit IRC
13:55:40  *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
13:58:17  <frosch123> hoi
13:58:26  <supermop> yo frosch123
13:59:52  <Wolf01> Quak
14:02:23  <frosch123> We should make ottd commercial
14:02:42  <frosch123> just to annoy baldi
14:03:54  <supermop> make inflation require an in-game purchase to enable
14:04:38  <supermop> also a charge of 10 EUR each time user makes use of newgrf developer settings
14:06:12  <frosch123> is it better to allow buying better trains with real money, or should you rather be able to sabotage opponents?
14:07:10  <frosch123> maybe there should be an option for cross-server sabotage
14:07:24  <frosch123> btpro vs reddit
14:07:47  <supermop> like old tetris competitive, where lines you clear show up on opponents screen
14:10:33  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: i just wish i could have a list of values that i define based on parameter
14:12:15  <supermop> i guess each RV could have a store_temp and load_temp, but that is worse than the original situation, as i still have some math at each vehicle to update
14:12:51  *** juzza1 has quit IRC
14:13:26  <frosch123> based on grf parameter?
14:14:15  <supermop> yes
14:14:16  <frosch123> you can assign arbitrary values to the options in grf parameter dropdowns
14:14:26  <supermop> not quite what i want
14:14:41  <planetmaker> quak
14:14:44  <supermop> lets say i have 3 types of trucks
14:14:44  <planetmaker> who is baldi?
14:14:57  <frosch123> andys nightmare
14:15:00  <supermop> flatbed, tank, and hopper
14:15:12  <supermop> theory: baldi is andy
14:15:29  <supermop> have they ever been seen in the same room?
14:15:33  <planetmaker> sounds like a popcorn-esk thing :D
14:15:58  <frosch123> but salty popcorn
14:16:01  <supermop> frosch123: i have a parameter to scale capacities
14:16:25  <planetmaker> yes... and why not have the user select via drop-down 1, 3 and 10?
14:16:39  <planetmaker> labeled tiny, intermediate and HUGE?
14:16:45  <frosch123> like 50%, 100, 150?
14:16:48  <supermop> but we have 3 different types of trucks, one carries 15 units, one carries 20, and one carries 25
14:16:55  <supermop> planetmaker: i already do that
14:17:08  <planetmaker> capacity = base_capacity * factor
14:17:30  <supermop> so currently param_capacity is either 1,2 or 3
14:17:54  <supermop> and each vehicle takes (param_capacity*x)/2
14:18:07  <supermop> where x is the capacity of that vehicle type
14:18:11  <frosch123> capacity: return 10 + 5×param?
14:18:12  <supermop> so 15, 20, or 25
14:18:26  <supermop> but i dont have 3 trucks
14:18:48  <supermop> i have 8 types of truck, and 6 generations of truck
14:18:55  <supermop> plus semi trucks
14:19:15  <supermop> plus diesel trucks, trolley trucks, and dual mode trucks
14:19:25  <planetmaker> sorry if it sounds dumb: what's the problem exactly?
14:19:51  <supermop> so lets call that 288 trucks
14:19:54  <planetmaker> you want to scale the capacity both by generation and with the capacity parameter and the truck type?
14:20:38  <supermop> which means there are 288 places where i need to find param_capacity*x/2
14:20:58  <supermop> and check to make sure that x is set to the correct value for that type of truck
14:21:25  <supermop> but every 3rd generation flatbed truck should have the same value of x
14:22:16  <supermop> so i could make a switch: switch_capacity_rigid_flat_3 or something
14:23:49  <supermop> that only has one possible return value
14:23:51  <frosch123> sounds like you should learn either about preprocessors, or about local parameter assignment
14:24:41  <supermop> what i'd like to do, is either take result of a swiitch like that and do math on it
14:24:44  <supermop> or
14:24:52  <planetmaker> what do you mean in NML context with the latter, frosch123 ? store_temp?
14:25:17  <supermop> store the result of the math done elsewhere into a value i can reference
14:25:35  *** juzza1 has joined #openttd
14:25:59  <frosch123> abc = param+10;
14:26:21  <frosch123> or did it use :=  ?
14:26:35  <supermop> how do i set abc in nml?
14:26:36  <planetmaker> your first thought is correct syntax
14:26:48  <planetmaker> abc = param + 42
14:27:42  <frosch123>
14:28:13  <supermop> because if i have to put store temp and load temp for each truck, then i have even more places to check and update than i did before
14:28:46  <supermop> how many params can a grf have? i thought it was some low amount
14:28:56  <frosch123> no idea whether you need to use the [ ] syntax
14:29:10  <frosch123> or whether abc works
14:29:42  <frosch123> 64 or so
14:29:44  <planetmaker> you can define named variables which are no parameter
14:30:08  <supermop> planetmaker: :O
14:30:11  <planetmaker> (exposed parameter)
14:30:13  <frosch123> hmm, i think even 128
14:30:39  <planetmaker> 127, I think. the other 128 or so are reserved for those internal variables used by NML or the user
14:32:50  <frosch123> supermop: anyway, store/load_tmp are for dynamic values during callback evaluation
14:33:05  <Eddi|zuHause> <planetmaker> sorry if it sounds dumb: what's the problem exactly? <-- the problem is, you cannot have a switch that calculates "return base_capacity*param_capacity", you have to duplicate it for every base capacity.
14:33:18  <Eddi|zuHause> and if you ever want to change the calculation, you have to modify every copy
14:33:27  <frosch123> in your case the values do not change during the game
14:36:48  <planetmaker> yeah, I guess that hit it spot-on...
14:52:02  *** frosch123 has quit IRC
15:13:20  *** Gja has joined #openttd
15:24:22  *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
15:26:29  *** Biolunar_ has quit IRC
15:28:56  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: do you think storing the values as more parameters is a good idea?
15:31:00  *** Alberth has joined #openttd
15:31:00  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth
15:31:15  <supermop> hi Alberth
15:34:47  <Alberth> o/
15:58:35  <supermop> any more mountain engineering?
16:12:08  *** Gja has quit IRC
16:13:21  <Alberth> no
16:14:12  <Wolf01> o/
16:34:56  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: i can't really decide that
16:51:10  *** Cubey has joined #openttd
16:58:39  *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
17:00:06  *** Gja has joined #openttd
17:10:20  *** Arveen has joined #openttd
17:23:15  *** glx has joined #openttd
17:23:15  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx
17:36:19  *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
17:40:12  <V453000> o/ :)
17:42:19  <frosch123> Hoi, everything ready?
17:43:36  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
17:44:28  <andythenorth> o/
17:44:50  <supermop> yo andy, does steeltown iron go on flatbeds, or only in ladles?
17:45:07  <supermop> ingots? bars?
17:46:31  <Alberth> whatever vehicle you got, we've got loads to move!
17:46:41  <andythenorth> pigs
17:47:55  <crem_>
17:48:14  <Wolf01> What?
17:48:34  <andythenorth> so I change my editor, and I earn more?
17:49:10  <andythenorth> oh I am not a developer :P
17:49:10  <crem_> It's not causation. :)
17:49:57  <Wolf01> Devlolopers win
17:56:40  <andythenorth> err
17:56:44  <andythenorth> anyone got Windows Mobile?
17:57:14  <andythenorth> specifically “ideally the site works on Windows Phone"
18:01:42  <Alberth> those still exist?
18:02:32  <andythenorth> requirement in a procurement tender
18:02:35  <andythenorth> so apparently
18:05:12  <V453000> of course not everything yet frosch123 but it's getting there ;P
18:05:41  <Eddi|zuHause> dangit, i just wanted to post that link...
18:06:34  <frosch123> it's true, at work i use spaces, in ottd i use tabs
18:10:02  <Wolf01> <andythenorth> anyone got Windows Mobile? -> me
18:10:26  <andythenorth> is it Windows Phone? o_O
18:10:34  <frosch123> anyway, the survey is questionable. According to my experience most people do not know about spaces and tabs
18:10:55  <Eddi|zuHause> anyone know how to crosscompile for windows CE on ARM?
18:11:39  <Wolf01> <andythenorth> is it Windows Phone? o_O <- no, windows phone is dead, is windows mobile
18:12:37  <andythenorth> ach
18:12:41  <andythenorth> tender says Windows Phone
18:12:41  <supermop> frosch123: my wife uses spaces and she makes much more than i do
18:12:45  <andythenorth> that’s the way it goes
18:13:11  <supermop> andythenorth: probably the guy writing the tender doesn't want to give up his phone
18:13:29  <Wolf01> Maybe he meant "windows phone" which is "smartphones which feature windows mobile"
18:14:09  <Eddi|zuHause> are we splitting hairs over something someone uninitiated probably used wrong anyway?
18:15:30  <Wolf01> :D
18:17:12  <Wolf01> Also ginger ale abstinence is teasing me to go to the pub
18:17:40  <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't sound very abstinent
18:18:34  <Wolf01> I didn't drink it yet today
18:18:39  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i went to the doctor today, and she said my dizziness might be something in the inner ear, and referred me to an ear doctor...
18:19:13  <Wolf01> Did you try licking your elbow?
18:19:33  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think so :p
18:19:45  <andythenorth> sometimes anti-sickness tablets stop dizziness
18:19:50  * andythenorth is *not* a doctor
18:20:15  <andythenorth> ach 41 questions, too many saying NOT DONE
18:20:57  <Eddi|zuHause> she didn't want to try medication at this stage yet
18:21:32  <andythenorth>
18:21:47  <supermop> Wolf01: i think you can buy cans or bottles to keep in your fridge
18:22:58  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: don't ever let anyone else tell you what a cloud looks like before you look at it yourself
18:23:50  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, beware of anvil-shaped clouds. the rest is irrelevant
18:25:50  <Eddi|zuHause> (and by "irrelevant" i mean "the fun part")
18:28:18  *** DDR has joined #openttd
19:00:32  *** Wolf01|Phone has joined #openttd
19:01:12  <Wolf01|Phone> So, I'm here with a ginger ale on my hand...
19:03:43  <Wolf01|Phone> <supermop> Wolf01: i think you can buy cans or bottles to keep in your fridge <- better not, I'll drink it at litres
19:23:59  *** Wolf01|Phone has quit IRC
19:24:01  *** frosch123 has quit IRC
19:24:03  *** frosch has joined #openttd
19:28:11  *** frosch has quit IRC
19:32:24  *** LEdoian has joined #openttd
19:35:17  *** ledoian_ has joined #openttd
19:35:51  *** LEdoian has quit IRC
19:49:48  *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC
19:53:40  *** Alberth has left #openttd
20:00:02  *** cHawk has quit IRC
20:18:12  *** Montana has joined #openttd
20:22:58  <Eddi|zuHause> so, i found a workaround for my steam issue with "STEAM_RUNTIME_PREFER_HOST_LIBRARIES=0"
20:26:29  <Eddi|zuHause>
20:27:36  *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd
20:31:54  *** Gja has quit IRC
21:00:16  <peter1138> hi
21:09:27  *** Biolunar has joined #openttd
21:15:15  <andythenorth> lo peter1138
21:31:12  <supermop> andy is up late
21:32:08  *** Progman has quit IRC
21:33:51  <andythenorth> tenders don’t write themselves eh?
21:33:57  <peter1138> lo bob
21:34:53  <andythenorth> isn’t it
21:35:10  <andythenorth> have we got a government yet?
21:43:49  <Eddi|zuHause> do you need one? :p
21:43:54  <supermop> what to mail vans refit to?
21:44:04  <supermop> everything box trucks do?
21:44:18  <supermop> is there a point?
21:44:30  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean, belgium had no government for over 2 years in a row, and they were getting along fine...
21:44:46  <Eddi|zuHause> ... but, they also didn't initiate a brexit
21:45:19  <ST2> conclusion: no government is the way to go!
21:45:30  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
21:45:55  *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
21:46:53  *** Hiddenfunstuff has quit IRC
21:59:32  <Montana> I agree. Spain had not government for 10 months and economical growth was impressive
22:02:08  *** Wormnest has quit IRC
22:04:32  <supermop> is cc_express used for anything?
22:05:07  <supermop> i wonder if a parcel ages more in a regular truck or mail van
22:05:17  <supermop> i think of mail vans as delivery vehicles
22:05:21  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: i think normal goods are cc_express
22:06:04  <supermop> im struggling to think of a reason to use mail vans, since i allow mail to be carried in regular goods trucks
22:07:12  <supermop> maybe it loads faster
22:07:31  <supermop> but the capacity is low enough that it doesn't make a big difference
22:07:41  <supermop> could make the truck weigh less
22:09:30  *** FLHerne has quit IRC
22:09:47  <supermop> i don't have any mail 'semis' so again it only is the smallest trucks affected
22:09:47  *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
22:24:23  <Eddi|zuHause> i might consider making mail "denser", i.e. more capacity for the same vehicle length
22:24:51  <Eddi|zuHause> also, valuables might go in a mail van
22:28:58  *** Biolunar has quit IRC
22:37:00  *** cHawk has joined #openttd
22:43:55  *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
22:43:56  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
22:50:58  *** tokai has quit IRC
22:55:35  *** FLHerne has quit IRC
23:36:02  *** davidstrauss_ has quit IRC
23:50:45  *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC

Powered by YARRSTE version: svn-trunk