Log for #openttd on 9th July 2017:
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05:47:24  <Alberth> o/
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07:58:49  <Alberth> o/
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08:14:35  <andythenorth> hi
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08:58:13  <Alberth> LordAro:    The XXX comments were written while reviewing, and may contradict each other
08:58:31  <LordAro> ooh
08:58:37  <LordAro> thanks :)
08:58:43  <Alberth> yw :)
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09:13:14  * andythenorth wants to rework Iron Horse
09:13:18  <andythenorth> but must FIRS :(
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09:28:16  <andythenorth> I might take the first 32 colours from
09:28:21  <andythenorth> and then manually assign them
09:28:33  <andythenorth> repeating map colours isn’t terrible for industries
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09:29:43  <andythenorth> maybe top 64
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09:31:08  <andythenorth> quak
09:31:10  <andythenorth> no frosch
09:32:19  <Alberth> not yet at least
09:33:21  <andythenorth> sometimes there’s no automated solution :P
09:34:09  <Alberth> in general, it worked quite nicely, just the greens and blue watery colour were not so great
09:34:29  <Alberth> you tried just leaving those out?
09:35:34  <Alberth> biggest issue is that colours are completely different from default industries, and from previous FIRSes :)
09:35:40  <andythenorth> is that an issue?
09:35:44  * andythenorth can’t decide
09:35:57  <andythenorth> at first I liked the difference, because it’s new
09:36:03  <andythenorth> but then in my test games I got annoyed
09:36:09  <andythenorth> “why are you hiding the coal mines"
09:36:23  <Alberth> I failed to recognize anything :)
09:36:28  <andythenorth> +1
09:36:35  <Alberth> but it's a matter of time to adjust
09:37:07  <andythenorth> I might set manual colours, with a guard against the map problem
09:37:21  <andythenorth> I can probably check if colour is in first 64 or so of what Frosch generated
09:37:28  <andythenorth> with some special case for sea
09:37:33  <andythenorth> dunno
09:38:17  <Alberth> if a colour that you used before is in the first 64, there isn't much reason not to keep that as-is
09:38:56  <Alberth> eg black coal mines still work then
09:40:39  <Alberth> on the other hand, eg brown iron-ore mines in default are hard to see, no reason to keep that
09:41:19  <andythenorth> looks like the algorithm rules out black :)
09:41:23  <andythenorth> can’t see it in the table
09:41:57  <Alberth> at 18.03 ?
09:42:03  <Alberth> 9th entry or so
09:43:27  <Alberth> 4.67 is x202020  which is also dark
09:44:20  <Alberth> technically, you could get a clash with "outside map", but that's a non-issue imho
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09:57:37  <LordAro> Alberth: i do believe i can remove the CDECL from the function calls as well, given it's related to the C calling convention
09:57:45  <LordAro> or something, i'm not entirely sure
10:02:12  <Alberth> hmm, stupid MS inventing own keywords
10:03:02  <Alberth> I believe there was also something related to preserving the function name, ie skip name mangling
10:03:15  <LordAro> mm, maybe
10:03:19  <Alberth> but euhm, I don't know, never used Windows
10:03:42  <Alberth> make it a separate patch at least, perhaps another dev can help you here
10:04:08  <Alberth> perhaps DLL stuff ?
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10:09:45  <LordAro> hmm, SmallVector::Clear is weird. i feel like it should be freeing memory, but it just resets a counter
10:10:55  <LordAro> i'm not actually all that sure it has any advantages over std::vector anyway
10:12:58  <Alberth> SmallVector pre-dates vector by a decade or so
10:13:15  <LordAro> vector isn't new to C++...
10:13:35  <Alberth> ok, less than a decade then :p
10:13:42  <LordAro> :p
10:13:52  <LordAro> regardless, separate patch
10:14:03  <Alberth> code started in C, where you don't have templates
10:14:15  <LordAro> aye
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10:15:18  <Alberth> iirc the biggest advantage was that you could add a value without copying it, like push_back does
10:15:26  <Alberth> hola
10:18:01  <frosch123> hoi
10:18:10  <frosch123> andythenorth: yes, the algorithms banishes black
10:18:42  <frosch123> the first version had many dark colours, which where hard to distinguish, so i penalised dark colours
10:18:55  <frosch123> ofc there is space for *one* dark colour :p
10:19:02  <Alberth> argh, how I hate lua with its silent replacement by 'nil'
10:19:19  <frosch123> what are you doing with lua?
10:19:34  <Alberth> hating it?  :p
10:19:38  <frosch123> :p
10:19:48  <Alberth> writing a property reader/writer, or rather attempting to
10:19:51  <frosch123> i encounter it a lot recently
10:20:11  <frosch123> like at work, in f and now here
10:20:11  <Alberth> corsix-th is full of it
10:20:39  <Alberth> maybe I should refuse to use it
10:20:56  <LordAro> haha
10:22:21  <frosch123> LordAro: the main point of SmallVector is that it gives the advantage of emplace long before c++11 existed
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10:23:07  <adf88> hi frosh
10:23:12  <frosch123> hoi
10:23:15  <adf88> I have a few small patches
10:23:29  <adf88> would you like to take a look?
10:23:47  <adf88> these are straightforward fixes
10:24:04  <LordAro> frosch123: aye, probably
10:24:51  <frosch123> i saw them in the log
10:25:16  <frosch123> i need to find a working copy without modifies :p
10:25:50  <frosch123> maybe i should look into using a better svn client
10:26:00  <LordAro> "git"
10:26:05  <LordAro> :p
10:28:43  <Alberth> that fails at least for empty directories
10:29:30  <frosch123> most cross-vcs things fail with svn:keywords
10:29:36  <frosch123> maybe we should remove them
10:29:54  <Alberth> not to mention git fails on big file moves
10:30:09  <LordAro> it's been getting better
10:30:21  <LordAro> although you do have to massage it at times, i'll admit
10:30:23  <Alberth> not last week
10:31:06  <Alberth> RB wanted svn keywords for identification of a file in case we ran into one in the wild
10:43:59  <andythenorth> hmm
10:44:05  <andythenorth> top 64 contrasting map colours?
10:44:06  <andythenorth> or 128?
10:46:40  <frosch123> top 16?
10:46:59  <andythenorth> not enough :)
10:47:05  <andythenorth> and they’re mostly orange or pink
10:47:36  <frosch123> of course they are
10:47:45  <frosch123> you banned all of green and half of violet
10:48:00  <frosch123> i guess top 32 might work
10:48:05  <frosch123> but anything more is too much
10:48:38  <andythenorth> hmm
10:49:27  <andythenorth> I’ll do the work to shuffle them into 64
10:49:38  <andythenorth> and if that’s lame, I’ll do it again to fit them into 32
10:54:21  <andythenorth> frosch123: can the algorithm force-include colours?
10:54:28  <andythenorth> not essential, just curious
10:55:08  <frosch123> i essentially force-included the map colours and black
10:55:17  <frosch123> that's why the algorithm stays away of them
10:55:34  <frosch123> there is no difference between "force-include" and "ban"
10:55:54  <frosch123> in the former case you just put them manually into front
10:56:11  <andythenorth> ok
10:58:35  <frosch123> <- the algorithm starts with the "banned" colours, and then incrementally adds colours which maximize the minimum distance to the already choosen colors
10:58:50  <frosch123> it's no clever algorithm :p just greed
10:59:22  <frosch123> you can manually pick some colors and then auto-assign the rest just fine
11:00:49  <andythenorth> I am using the list for a compile-time guard
11:00:53  <andythenorth> with manual assignment
11:24:19  <andythenorth> ok done :)
11:27:14  <frosch123> does it make sense to add those colors to the economy graphs?
11:27:41  <andythenorth> I wondered
11:27:54  <andythenorth> might be too much colour
11:27:57  <andythenorth> want to try? o_O
11:28:03  <frosch123> not to fill the whole boxes, that would make it unreadable
11:28:08  <andythenorth> yeah
11:28:11  <frosch123> but maybe some square somewhere
11:31:35  <andythenorth> show the cargo icon? :P
11:34:06  * andythenorth bbl
11:34:13  <andythenorth> pleased the map colours are fixed :)
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11:35:54  <LordAro> Alberth: ah yes, that's why i did the FileList thing - there's something very funny going on with const vs non-const that i couldn't work out -
11:36:13  <LordAro> (this is with FileList restored to its original state)
11:37:14  <LordAro> ah yes, it's not using the const version of Filelist::Get
11:37:25  <LordAro> for reasons i can't tell
11:37:42  <Alberth> line 5 looks wrong, imho
11:38:36  <LordAro> that's not new :p
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11:38:42  <LordAro> i've got another branch for that
11:39:10  <Alberth> isn't it just that it has no type for CompareFiosItems ?
11:40:02  <Alberth> what happens if you declare it?
11:40:32  <LordAro> oh, i forgot about the header declaration
11:40:37  <LordAro> please hold...
11:42:21  <LordAro> there we go, that's "better"
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11:45:24  <Alberth> hmm, weird indeed, FileList looks ok
11:45:55  <Alberth> perhaps it gets confused due to the additional pointer, which is not const in both cases
11:46:59  <Alberth> tbh I have yet to find a reason why the pointer should be const in these cases
11:47:17  <Alberth> who cares what the caller does with the pointer?
11:47:54  <LordAro> i'd imagine it just cares that they are the same, rather than making any distinction between const/nonconst
11:49:09  <LordAro> that said, if i comment out the non-const Get function, it explodes into templatehell
11:52:01  <Alberth> oh, perhaps swapping during sort?
11:52:42  <Alberth> not very const :p
11:54:25  <LordAro> i think that's what the error messages are saying :)
11:56:35  * LordAro adds more code duplication in the form of a nonconst End
11:56:55  <LordAro> compiles \o/
11:57:04  <Alberth> :D
11:57:19  <frosch123> i wonder why no c++xx has added a keyword for const/nonconst c&p
11:57:57  <LordAro> mm
12:00:21  <Alberth> not sure what c&p means, but perhaps not enough added value?
12:01:49  <adf88> e.g. void
12:02:13  <adf88> void this_is_cost_and_non_const_method() const_or_non_conts
12:02:19  <frosch123> i guess it does not work well with templated parameters
12:02:34  <adf88> {
12:02:34  <adf88>   this->something(); // const or non-const
12:02:36  <adf88> }
12:03:30  <frosch123> but for "autoconst Foo& GetFoo() autoconst { return this->foo; }" it would work
12:03:43  <Alberth> in general both implementations can be very different
12:03:55  <frosch123> not so much if it needs to distinguish iterator and const_iterator
12:04:27  <Alberth> maybe they hope to make the compiler smart enough to recognize const
12:05:58  <Alberth> always nice to find branches that are just old copies of 'master' :p
12:06:40  <adf88> frosch123: no need to
12:06:40  <adf88> auto iter = container->begin();
12:07:28  <frosch123> well, but does "auto" work for function parameters and return values?
12:08:39  <adf88> sorry, I just got in the middle and I don't know what you are trying to achieve :p
12:08:57  <frosch123> ah well, perhaps boost will discover some magic for "boost::if_const<const_iterator, iterator>" :p
12:08:58  <Alberth> making a spec for the next C++xx  :p
12:09:11  <adf88> but I would say: create a function template, it will accept "auto" var
12:09:48  <adf88> T will be either 'const_iterator' or 'iterator'
12:10:37  <Alberth> git rename guesses are hilarious :p   "rename CorsixTH/{Lua/command.lua => Graphics/file_mapping.txt} (87%)"
12:11:35  <frosch123> reminds me of gettext fuzzy matching
12:12:04  <Alberth> rename MapEdit/Src/app.cpp => CorsixTH/Lua/entities/grim_reaper.lua
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12:20:33  <LordAro> frosch123: auto works in C++17, i think
12:20:36  <LordAro> certainly in lambdas
12:21:18  <LordAro> lambdas are getting fun though - i made a thing a few months ago that was signficantly simpler with a load of top-level lambdas instead of "proper" functions
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12:30:33  <Eddi|zuHause> speaking of templates, i had a go with C++ a while back, trying out a function like "template<typename T> T f(T param)", but how do you instantiate the template properly, if the function is not called in this .cpp file, but in another one? i had to manually put instantiations like "int f(int)" "byte f(byte)" etc...
12:31:41  <frosch123> usually you put the implementation into the header
12:31:56  <frosch123> it's were rare to do the instantiation in a cpp file
12:31:58  <Eddi|zuHause> but that would duplicate the function?
12:32:10  <frosch123> the linker sorts that out
12:32:56  <frosch123> the linker generally sorts out duplication of implicitly declared thigns
12:32:58  <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't really scream "the right" solution to me
12:33:18  <frosch123> like default constructor, copy constructor, destructor, virtual table, run time type info, ...
12:34:01  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: the point of a template is that it works with many types, not just with the 5 you thought of when writing the template
12:34:22  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
12:35:38  <Eddi|zuHause> in particular, i was cleaning up a file where the person just copy-pasted the same function 20 times, just swapping out int32/int16/uint16/bool/...
12:38:24  <Alberth> they solved that linker problem around 20 years ago
12:39:23  <frosch123> i really like languages which do not have "unsigned" stuff
12:40:16  <Eddi|zuHause> i can't do everything in python :p
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12:42:24  <Eddi|zuHause> in this particular case this was some network interface code, where the type had to match the underlying (and fixed) format
12:43:07  <Alberth> we over-use 'unsigned' in openttd, you should only use it for collections of bits, mostly
12:43:14  <Eddi|zuHause> i also had "great fun" trying to reimplement that interface in python, with the c_types module
12:43:56  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: as soon as you use "-" on a type, it should be signed
12:44:32  <Alberth> even before, eg population or length should be signed too
12:45:21  <Alberth> ie "non-negative values only" is not sufficient for using unsigned
12:46:07  <Alberth> shit starts to drop when you are using the full width of integers :p
12:46:32  <Eddi|zuHause> well, the extended range really matters if you have to weigh in whether you use 8 or 16 bit, but once you're using 32, 64 or more bits, it's almost irrelevant
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12:48:20  <Eddi|zuHause> i've come across an "unsigned 64 bit integer" which has the meaning "100ns units since 1st january 1601"
12:48:52  <Alberth> shorter integers is probably also overengineering, just use int everywhere
12:49:47  <Alberth> of course, network IO and file formats have different considerations here
12:49:57  <Eddi|zuHause> that turns out to be quite hard to remember if your language has "INT" meaning "16 bits"
12:50:20  <frosch123> @calc 2**64/(10**7 *3600*24*365)
12:50:20  <DorpsGek> frosch123: 58494.2417355
12:50:46  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: quite conservative choice, 10ns would also last till 5800"
12:50:47  <Alberth> longer than expected :p
12:51:03  <frosch123> (plus 1600)
12:51:17  <frosch123> but i see that they did not pick 1ns
12:51:19  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: maybe someone thought "ah well, we won't need better resolution"
12:52:02  <frosch123> i think every time format should have an addition field for number of leap-seconds included
12:52:21  <LordAro> ;-;
12:53:01  <Eddi|zuHause> just turn off the computer for 24h on days with leap seconds
12:53:40  <Eddi|zuHause> that is apparently the default solution for SAP systems with summer/winter time shifts :p
12:54:01  <Alberth> haha :)
12:54:48  <Alberth> just use GMT-relative time
12:54:55  <LordAro> is always worth a read
13:07:06  <Alberth> amazing :)
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13:16:44  <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: i feel like i read a simplified excerpt from that recently
13:18:26  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure my processes are time-critical enough to worry about leap seconds, though
13:19:37  <Eddi|zuHause> plus, they won't be running over night, probably
13:31:52  <frosch123> yeah, first make them crash less often :p
13:32:38  <Eddi|zuHause> did you mean "explode"? :p
13:33:17  <adf88> I wish they had do this leap second thing otherwise
13:33:17  <adf88> it's so simple
13:33:17  <adf88> one second in GMT time doesn't have to be equivalent to a physical second
13:33:17  <adf88> virtual GMT seconds could last a little longer or a little slower then a physical second
13:33:17  <adf88> the central committee would be fine-tuning their central clock so it slowly drifts to compress the upcoming changes in Earth movement around sun
13:33:18  <adf88> computers would desynchronize slowly from the master clock, BUT THEY DO SO ANYWAY
13:33:18  <adf88> in it's time, they would safely resynchronize with the master clock, THEY HAVE TO DO IT ANYWAY
13:33:41  <Eddi|zuHause> i do PLC programming, which usually means there's an actual machine attached to it :p
13:34:48  <Eddi|zuHause> adf88: google does something like that, on days with leap seconds they stretch out the seconds over the day ever so slightly
13:36:51  <adf88> for high performance time calculations you don't use GMT anyway so GMT doesn't have to be "scientific"
13:40:11  <Eddi|zuHause> adf88: that's a dangerous claim
13:41:18  <adf88> i meant really high like GPS stuff etc
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13:53:26  <adf88> I heard (and It seems natural) that for scientific calculations like those in space, UTC is not usefull (because of the leap), they use other timers that are not affected by Earh movement around Sun
13:54:29  <__ln__> *useful
13:55:13  <Eddi|zuHause> adf88: that's explained in above link
14:00:17  <frosch123> yeah, in space they use parallax seconds and light years :p
14:00:41  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: yes, those are the best time units :p
14:17:49  <adf88> I remember once when polish handball representation was playing with Norway
14:17:49  <adf88> 15 seconds to the end, we are loosing, Bogdan Wenta (coach) takes a break and says to the team:
14:17:49  <adf88> "guys, easy, there's a lot of time"
14:17:49  <adf88> since then, 1 venta = 15 seconds :D
14:17:49  <adf88> we won BTW :)
14:18:32  <Alberth> :)
14:22:49  <Eddi|zuHause> depends on whether you can partition those 15 seconds into multiple attack sequences (e.g. by american-football-like timeouts)
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14:44:18  <andythenorth> o/
15:22:31  <andythenorth> is ottd reddit any good?
15:22:50  <frosch123> don't ask anyone from btpro :p
15:23:15  <frosch123> there is some drama which i do not quite follow
15:26:30  <andythenorth> hmm ok :)
15:26:37  <andythenorth> so what icon for Recyclables cargo?
15:26:48  <andythenorth> I tried the 3 arrows in a circle for ‘recycle'
15:26:51  <andythenorth> doesn’t work
15:27:25  <frosch123> just wanted to suggest that
15:27:31  <frosch123> too small?
15:27:36  <andythenorth> arrows don’t fit the number of pixels
15:27:45  <andythenorth>
15:28:05  <andythenorth> or even
15:28:14  <frosch123> remove the box
15:28:22  <frosch123> <- only arrows
15:31:16  <andythenorth> due to the grid, one arrow must be much larger than the other two
15:31:18  <andythenorth> bah
15:32:43  * andythenorth wonders about a 32bpp UI with 8bpp game sprites
15:33:09  <frosch123> draw 2x cargo icons?
15:33:19  <frosch123> you were using 2x gui, right?
15:33:23  <andythenorth> yup
15:37:05  <frosch123> <- cement icon
15:37:25  <frosch123> vehicle body is hard though, if you also have vehicles
15:37:32  <andythenorth> mixer :)
15:40:15  * andythenorth tries and fails
15:40:39  <andythenorth> drawing icons is totally different to drawing sprites :P
15:40:51  <frosch123> many of your icons try 3d
15:41:00  <frosch123> 2d may be easier with that little pixels
15:42:42  <andythenorth> Foobar and Dan drew most of the other icons
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18:46:04  <andythenorth> upgraded recyclables icon
18:46:06  <andythenorth> still crap
18:46:24  <andythenorth> it bothers me there are two different styles of mineral pile
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18:48:57  <frosch123> i think it's reasonable
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18:49:38  <frosch123> i don't think it is any worse than the other small icons
18:49:49  <frosch123> most icons have the problem of too few pixels
18:50:03  * andythenorth wonders if we should change them
18:53:34  <andythenorth> Alberth: does FIRS 2 default to Extreme for you? o_O
18:53:50  <andythenorth> I get Temperate Basic
18:56:45  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Alberth
19:06:30  <frosch123> hmm, i can get the map colours into the cargo graphs
19:06:46  <frosch123> but there is no equivalent of showing a partial image
19:06:58  <frosch123> so cargo icons would only work with one icon per image
19:08:43  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: have you ever considered having the default be "Basic (climate-dependent)" and then additional economies for "Basic (Arctic)", "Basic (Temperate)", "Basic (Tropic)", others...
19:09:19  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: yesterday we tried to make a point that you can play any economy in any climate :p
19:09:25  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
19:09:31  <Eddi|zuHause> you could still do that with this
19:09:45  <Eddi|zuHause> but you bring the most diversity to people that never change parameters
19:11:04  <Eddi|zuHause> and you can then put a sentence about the climate-independentness of the climate-economy in the description
19:11:43  <Alberth> andy, nah, I use BB as guide :)
19:16:35  <Alberth> the OP was complaining FIRS was too complicated
19:26:18  <Eddi|zuHause> that's not a problem, if you ask enough people, you always find people who have these extreme opinions
19:27:02  <Eddi|zuHause> meaning it's simultaneously too complicated and not nearly complicated enough
19:27:38  <andythenorth> I don’t know what to say to over-complicated
19:27:46  <andythenorth> it’s 19 industries versus 12
19:27:56  <andythenorth> temperate / temperate basic
19:28:12  <andythenorth> or temperate basic / temperate :P
19:29:22  <andythenorth> frosch123: I could slice out the cargo icons with PIL :P
19:30:24  <frosch123> hmm, colors do not seem to work either
19:30:45  <frosch123> maybe would require templating the css as well
19:31:19  <andythenorth> achieveable
19:31:24  <andythenorth> dunno if it’s worthwhile :)
19:31:36  <frosch123> yeah :/
19:32:24  <andythenorth> can you remember why we made primaries green and secondaries red?
19:32:34  <andythenorth> I am considering making them all variations of blue or so
19:33:41  <frosch123> we tried different colors
19:33:56  <frosch123> there were several version
19:34:00  <frosch123> i like the current ones
19:34:32  <andythenorth>
19:35:10  <frosch123> in particular i like green for primary
19:35:17  <frosch123> because they produce on their own
19:36:02  <frosch123> blue is generally a boring color, so making everything blueish would look sad
19:36:04  <andythenorth>  seems we tried quite a few options
19:36:15  <andythenorth> there was yellow at some point
19:36:23  <andythenorth> and we distinguished extractive / organic
19:36:41  <frosch123> i can see why that was removed :p
19:36:45  * andythenorth leaves them alone
19:36:48  <frosch123> sounds pretty pointless
19:38:03  <frosch123> oh, maybe the css is working against my colors
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19:51:16  <andythenorth> my to-do list says “cargo weights seem to be arbitrary, fix them"
19:51:17  <andythenorth> file:///Users/andy2/Documents/OTTD_graphics/FIRS/firs/docs/html/code_reference.html#cargos
19:51:32  <andythenorth>
19:51:43  <andythenorth> local links never work for you lot :P
19:54:26  <andythenorth> how much should 1t of alcohol weigh then?
19:54:46  <andythenorth> 0.9?
19:54:55  <andythenorth> or do the bottles make it heavier?
19:55:04  <frosch123> i think you deprecated that task by making most cargos use "1 ton" insead of "1 item/bag/sack"
19:55:23  <andythenorth> not yet :P
19:55:30  <andythenorth> should I put the units in the table?
19:55:38  <andythenorth> all 1 ton are at least easy :P
19:55:52  <frosch123> <- well, at least one can see the colors per economy
19:56:44  * andythenorth wonders why the svgs don’t work for me from there
19:57:28  <andythenorth> tried all three browsers :)
19:59:26  <frosch123> <- render them yourself :)
19:59:36  <frosch123> the Makefile change may be useful in any case
19:59:57  <frosch123> also the ratio thing makes some economies look better, though it may become a economy-specific setting
20:04:22  <andythenorth> colourful :)
20:04:38  <andythenorth> it’s interesting frosch123
20:07:47  <andythenorth> we could do them with the colour on one side
20:08:03  <andythenorth> dunno if the svg css permits that
20:08:35  * andythenorth reading
20:09:53  <andythenorth>
20:17:54  <andythenorth> the ratio does seem to be an improvement
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20:24:02  <andythenorth> beer is denser than water :o
20:24:17  <andythenorth> 1010g per litre
20:31:10  <frosch123> so if you let beer settle for a while: there is alcohol at the top, then water, then the rest?
20:31:24  <andythenorth> perhaps :)
20:33:16  <andythenorth> weight of livestock :P
20:33:21  <andythenorth> chickens, sheep or cows?
20:33:26  * andythenorth leaves it alone
20:33:26  <supermop_home> cows
20:35:51  <frosch123> ponies
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20:36:04  <andythenorth> ponies
20:36:25  <andythenorth> seems we already set it to weight of ponies :P
20:38:58  <supermop_home> apparently melb is building out some suburban line by 3 more stations
20:38:59  <andythenorth> FIRS 3 creeps closer to the end
20:39:14  <andythenorth> bothers me I can’t re-order the economies
20:39:19  <andythenorth> Extreme should be last
20:39:31  <andythenorth> maybe I just break savegames, that happens anyway
20:41:24  <frosch123> i think you can reorder them
20:41:29  <frosch123> without breaking savegames
20:41:52  <frosch123> add "+16" to the values  until they are in the order you want
20:42:09  <frosch123> then do "param_foobar  = param_foobar & 0xF" at the start of the grf
20:42:29  <andythenorth> :o
20:42:56  <andythenorth> is too late in day for me to figure out what that does :)
20:43:16  <andythenorth> I have elaborate but flawed code already to try and avoid breaking savegames
20:43:23  <andythenorth> it does nothing useful :)
20:44:02  <frosch123> essentially it make the combobox choose paired-values (economy, sortorder)
20:44:15  <frosch123> lower nibble is economy, upper nibble is sortorder
20:44:47  <andythenorth> I need to implement that tomorrow :)
20:45:40  * andythenorth must to bed 
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21:22:11  <andythenorth> Manufacturing Supplies has no special behaviour
21:22:15  <andythenorth> unlike ENSP and FMSP
21:22:23  <andythenorth> it should be removed / renamed / rethought
21:22:30  <andythenorth> it’s just hax
21:24:16  <andythenorth> it’s consumed at 9 industries
21:24:21  <andythenorth> 6 of them it’s just packaging
21:24:24  <andythenorth> 1 is a port
21:24:36  <andythenorth> 1 is parts
21:24:39  <andythenorth> the other I have NFI
21:24:45  <supermop_home> 'boxes'
21:25:25  <andythenorth> crates of boxes? o_O
21:25:36  <supermop_home> boxes of crates
21:25:46  <andythenorth> nets of nets
21:25:50  <supermop_home> jars of bottles
21:25:51  <andythenorth> oh that’s just cardboard :P
21:26:04  <andythenorth> bags of sacks
21:26:17  <andythenorth> texitle mill should _produce_ MNSP, not consume it :P
21:26:23  <andythenorth> daft cargo
21:26:28  <andythenorth> ‘Packaging’ then?
21:26:41  <andythenorth> and remove it from Furniture Factory and Textile Mill?
21:28:55  <andythenorth> IRL, it should also cover the common industrial chemicals like salt
21:29:03  <andythenorth> but that didn’t happen
21:29:24  <andythenorth> also Ice
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21:31:37  <andythenorth> also Bed
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