Log for #openttd on 27th July 2017:
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08:16:37  <peter1138> moo
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10:15:07  <Wolf01> Moin
10:30:11  <Alberth> o/
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13:33:44  <supermop> YO
13:37:44  <crem> YO++
13:38:32  <Arveen2> YO#
13:39:00  <crem> .net?
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13:52:20  <Alberth> hi hi
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14:44:27  <andythenorth_> o/
14:46:42  <Wolf01> o/
14:47:18  <andythenorth_> Is NRT yet? :)
14:51:21  <peter1138> IS
14:51:29  <peter1138> is andythenorth_ yet?
14:53:06  <Wolf01> \o/ another bank account opened, I have so many money a single bank can't handle them
14:53:29  <Wolf01> I used the tunnel money bug in real life
14:53:53  <Wolf01> Just kidding, I'm moving from one bank to another :P
14:55:16  <__ln__> you have not just one but two banks in italy?
14:56:11  <Wolf01> My target is to get all of them
14:57:57  <andythenorth_> My banks kept buying each other
14:58:20  <andythenorth_> I started with 7 or so and finished with 3
14:59:32  <Wolf01> Same here
15:00:03  <andythenorth_> What capacity should freight wagons be?
15:00:17  <andythenorth_> (3 or 4 generations)
15:00:21  <Wolf01> Enough to make money
15:00:36  <andythenorth_> Wrong answer :)
15:00:50  <andythenorth_> It's about train length
15:00:55  <Wolf01> I think they must change capacity based on the length of the train and type of engine attached
15:01:19  <Wolf01> And air drag if you can get the value right
15:01:45  <andythenorth_> Reduce capacity by 10% for every n+1 wagon?
15:01:58  <Wolf01> Yeah, samu would be happy
15:02:35  <peter1138> add bicycles
15:02:47  <andythenorth_> Bicycle wagon?
15:03:03  <andythenorth_> There is a train in canada with a canoe wagon
15:03:51  <Alberth> bicycles travel with their owners, here
15:05:19  <Alberth>   even internationally, apparently
15:06:32  <andythenorth_> freight wagons should match RV capacities? Or be higher?
15:06:38  <andythenorth_> Realism says higher
15:07:08  <andythenorth_> But really it's a visual choice about how long trains should be
15:07:33  <Alberth> and how many RVs you have
15:07:43  <andythenorth_> Anyone got savegames nearby? o_O
15:07:56  <peter1138> i mean bikes on the road :p
15:08:01  <peter1138> holding up all the buses
15:08:07  <peter1138> running red lights etc
15:08:09  * andythenorth_ needs some typical train lengths and capacities
15:08:25  <peter1138> typical things all cyclists do
15:08:33  <andythenorth_> Peter they'd get stuck in the tram tracks, very dangerous
15:08:48  <andythenorth_> Needs roadtypes to prevent that :p
15:09:09  <Alberth> hmm, bicycle paths
15:10:37  <andythenorth_> would need to add red lights so they could run them
15:11:28  <Alberth> I wonder if it would be fun to have 2-3 engines (of one type-ish, but from not-so-good to very-good) available for a period in the grf, and pick one based on random
15:11:47  <Alberth> that defeats the idea you can wait for the next gen engine which is much better
15:13:10  <Alberth> "pick one" as in "pick one model"
15:13:51  <Alberth> if you play again, you may get a different model
15:18:29  <andythenorth_> Random stats?
15:18:59  <supermop> Alberth: i've always wanted that
15:19:17  <supermop> also random names, but been told that's not possible
15:19:28  <Wolf01> Make it so longer is the wagon, less it can carry
15:19:59  <Alberth> inverrse proportional to the length :p
15:20:37  <Alberth> random stats are almost the same but not entirely, ie you'd always get the same engine, but it may or may not be useless
15:20:59  <Alberth> if you get a different model, the engine can also have a different shape / size
15:21:34  <Alberth> supermop: make several models, and enable one of them should work, I think
15:22:39  <supermop> composite sprites for engine cab and body, so it always looks different?
15:23:05  <peter1138> does NRT include a spec for traffic lights/ :p
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15:23:25  <supermop> welcome to add one peter1138
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15:25:30  <andythenorth_> I've considered randomised stats many times
15:25:45  <V453000> ._.
15:25:49  <andythenorth_> But eh I think it would just annoy me :)
15:26:08  <peter1138> do it
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15:26:24  <peter1138> with action 6?
15:26:31  <andythenorth_> Peter1138 NRT doesn't _exclude_ traffic lights
15:26:36  <Wolf01> Then you might get a perfect stats, but you missed a grf, you get angry and never play again
15:26:41  <andythenorth_> Want to add them?
15:26:54  <peter1138> well
15:26:56  <peter1138> not really
15:27:10  <andythenorth_> What would they do?
15:27:17  <peter1138> i still have touched anything in the big patch queues despite saying i would :(
15:27:21  <peter1138> andythenorth_, be annoying
15:27:24  <andythenorth_> Eye candy?
15:27:56  <andythenorth_> seems 95% pointless ;)
15:28:10  <peter1138> quite
15:28:21  <peter1138> but it's needed for cyclists to run
15:28:30  <Wolf01> I think you can already do it with newobjects
15:28:49  <peter1138> do we have vr support yet?
15:28:54  <peter1138> maybe i should get a rift and add it
15:28:59  <Wolf01> No, only AR
15:28:59  <andythenorth_> Might look nice in night mode too
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15:29:11  <andythenorth_> I had a go on VR
15:29:18  <andythenorth_> Surprisingly good
15:29:40  <andythenorth_> Not OR, apparently it has lag that makes you sick
15:29:52  <Wolf01> Yeah, I played minecraft with the oculus, but I'm more oriented towards the hololens
15:30:13  <peter1138> lag only if your pc is not 5 seconds old
15:30:38  <andythenorth_> I had a go on the thing where you put a phone in a headset
15:31:47  <andythenorth_> What capacity is a bike then?
15:31:56  <andythenorth_> In tonnes
15:33:45  <Wolf01> Depends from the country, I won't load more than 10kg (+me) on my bike, but in India or other places where they use bikes for almost everything you can load even 500kg
15:39:58  <andythenorth_> Ok
15:40:12  <andythenorth_> And what about trains? 200t?
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16:03:22  <andythenorth_> Biab
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16:58:57  <andythenorth_>    400t trains? o_O
16:59:24  <andythenorth_> 600t?
17:00:09  <Wolf01> Why not drop real unit measuring systems and go full fictional?
17:00:21  <andythenorth_> Crates?
17:00:33  <Wolf01> "this wagon loads a lot of stuff"
17:01:14  <andythenorth_> random per vehicle?
17:01:46  <andythenorth_> Lots of casual games use 'random' for progression
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17:02:08  <Wolf01> Or perfect linearity
17:02:09  <andythenorth_> Except I think often it's not random at all :p
17:02:41  <andythenorth_> The actual question is "what's a nice train length"
17:03:47  <Wolf01> Suggest disabling bigger stations, and play with 5 tiles max
17:03:48  <andythenorth_> 20t at 5/8 makes for trains that are relatively long
17:04:26  <Wolf01> And make everything 8/8
17:04:58  <andythenorth_> I'm using 4/8 and 8/8
17:05:31  <andythenorth_> 75t at 10/8 makes for relatively short trains
17:06:06  <andythenorth_> a train should leave an industry every month or so?
17:06:23  <andythenorth_> And inustries produce around 180t
17:06:28  <Wolf01> Too much info, I just want to play
17:06:41  <andythenorth_> And optimum train length is 5 or 6
17:07:35  <andythenorth_> That suggests 20t at 8/8
17:07:44  <andythenorth_> Seems low
17:07:57  <andythenorth_> V453000 advices
17:08:41  <Wolf01> I usually make 7 tiles stations, with trains slightly shorter than 6 tiles (I like to see some unused track, with trains stopping in the middle of the platform)
17:08:41  <andythenorth_> 40t works nicely for trucks
17:09:53  <andythenorth_> With FIRS I want about 8 or 9 tiles for a gung-ho industry
17:10:29  <andythenorth_> That suggests 40t pretty nicely
17:11:55  <andythenorth_> Or 45t or 48t or 50t
17:13:08  <andythenorth_> Hmm 2 kinds of wagons? Fast 40t, slow 60t?
17:13:15  <andythenorth_> Boring distinction?
17:14:26  <V453000> wat
17:14:32  <V453000> 60t wagon capacity?
17:15:35  <andythenorth_> wat is correct amount?
17:15:49  <andythenorth_> TL5 is best?
17:15:53  <V453000> depends I guess
17:16:04  <V453000> I consider 5 tiles to be kind of average standard yeah
17:16:13  <V453000> but 3 is preferred often by expert players
17:16:39  <andythenorth_> single piece flow
17:16:40  <V453000> idk, I think 60t capacity is boring with small mines but if you have other alternatives I guess it's not that bad
17:16:55  <andythenorth_> Trucks :p
17:17:05  <V453000> ._.
17:17:15  <V453000> btw I think I finally found the true visual identity of BRIX
17:17:20  <andythenorth_> Yay
17:17:28  <V453000> soo need to release 0.0.2 ASAP so I can rework it all again
17:17:55  <V453000> I was migrating it from max to blender and it's quite a bit of work for complex objects like rails or bridges
17:18:02  <andythenorth_> One day V, we will both stop figuring out 'ultimate x'
17:18:05  <V453000> so might as well do some redesigning
17:18:10  <andythenorth_> But we might be dead
17:18:19  <V453000> yeah that's about when I think
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17:19:19  <andythenorth_> so early generations are easy
17:19:41  <andythenorth_> 24>30>40t
17:20:47  <andythenorth_> Gen 4: more capacity, or faster?
17:21:05  <andythenorth_> RH gen 4 is faster
17:21:55  <V453000> honestly I don't have enough knowledge about RH to tell you that, I don't think it is only about general rule of thumb but about the design of the set
17:22:00  <V453000> also I sent you ay message :P
17:22:11  <andythenorth_> Forumz?
17:22:16  <V453000> here
17:22:21  <V453000> just perzonal
17:22:35  * andythenorth_ workz phone
17:22:55  <V453000> phone doesn't do PM? :D
17:23:26  <V453000> meh then ... [19:19] <V453000> concept be this ... with textures, many details and stuff, but in general it's going to be bricks of stuff fit in "land sockets" [19:20] <V453000> it has many reasons I realized, like needing grid, slope visibility, visual interest, and general problems with OpenTTD rails/stuff and tiling problems
17:24:50  <Alberth> livingroom climate
17:25:34  <V453000> more like true toys :)
17:25:40  <V453000> wooden blocks etc
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17:39:27  * andythenorth_ has horrible idea
17:39:38  <andythenorth_> Refits that trade capacity for speed
17:41:59  <Alberth> nuts does that with train length :)
17:42:20  <Alberth> short fast trains or long slow trains
17:45:57  <andythenorth_> Maybe it works in nuts
17:46:07  <andythenorth_> But it's mathematically daft
17:46:24  <andythenorth_> Net throughput per tile will be roughly same
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17:48:52  <andythenorth_> 60t wagons demand "high axle load" railtype? o_O
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17:50:16  * andythenorth_ considers all options :p
17:56:32  <Alberth> didn't the same andy say recently that a single type was enough ?  :)
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18:00:04  <andythenorth_> Strictly I've already done axle load
18:00:21  <andythenorth_> I just called it 'normal' and 'narrow gauge'
18:02:12  <andythenorth_> Hmm by time gen 4 comes, 'faster' is preferable
18:02:26  <andythenorth_> No need to mess with train lengths
18:02:46  <Alberth> Did you actually try the Villages is Villages script? It seems to match your "provide cargo to towns" idea
18:03:01  <andythenorth_> I played a game with it
18:03:27  <andythenorth_> Can't remember my opinion, except it wasn't bad
18:03:32  <Alberth> faster is always preferable, but depending on train load and freight multiplier that translates to different things :)
18:07:44  <Wolf01> * andythenorth_ has horrible idea <- I had the horrible idea to resurrect my brickland too
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18:12:58  <andythenorth_> In 1 year's time I will declare 4/8 and 8/8 a ridiculous constraint, right?
18:13:18  <andythenorth_> and restore arbitrary lengths?
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18:15:46  <Wolf01> Yes
18:15:54  <Wolf01> Maybe even 6 months
18:16:14  <andythenorth_> Hmm
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18:17:10  <andythenorth_> fixing ~all trams to 16/8 in road hog worked brilliantly
18:17:37  <andythenorth_> But the truck lengths vary a little more, according to what looks good
18:17:58  <Eddi|zuHause> months? you mean weeks?
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18:44:38  <Eddi|zuHause> dear cities skylines, why won't you let me have a tram stop and a bus stop at the same place?
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18:54:01  <Wolf01> You want too much
18:57:01  <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: i hate that.
18:57:22  <NGC3982> do we love cities skylines so much just because sim city was so bad?
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18:59:07  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know, i skipped that
18:59:56  <Alkel_U3> last SC I played was 3000, that one was still pretty ok IMHO
19:00:23  <Eddi|zuHause> played sim city 4 a lot, but it was a bit crashy
19:00:27  <Eddi|zuHause> with no autosave
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19:02:57  <Alkel_U3> I'm more appaled by C:S not being able to understand I want the cycling/pedestrian path level, not full of ridges and 800% inclines when building next to houses or other infrastructure
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19:03:40  <Alkel_U3> it's missing something like what that last update of Train fever seems to have
19:05:21  <NGC3982> youre on to something cap'n.
19:06:32  <NGC3982> i have about a thousand hours in cs, and i like everything about the dlc so far (at least for what it costs). but im with you, i often get irritated when i cannot micro manage service vehicles, bikes and such.
19:07:32  <NGC3982> they have been very frequent on the subreddit, and they told us that they really liked the road managing mods, even stating that they wanted to contact the creators for compensation if you implemented it.
19:08:22  <NGC3982> but they have yet to do that, and im patiantly waiting for the day i can force <type> into <lane> and <event> when <stuff happends>.
19:08:53  <Alkel_U3> fortunately I have many other games to play in the meantime :-)
19:09:35  <Alkel_U3> heck, I still haven't even finished XCOM
19:09:57  <Alkel_U3> or Dwarf Fortress, but that's a different story
19:10:54  <NGC3982> factorio was too good. :(
19:11:16  <NGC3982> i played it once and experienced everything, and after that there was no need to play anymore.
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19:11:55  <Wolf01> <Alkel_U3> it's missing something like what that last update of Train fever seems to have <- road waypoints?
19:14:19  <Eddi|zuHause> signals? :p
19:15:35  <Alkel_U3> oh wait, I meant transport fever
19:15:59  <Eddi|zuHause> same thing, really
19:16:04  <Wolf01> It's the same, transport fever is an updated train fever
19:17:20  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, might as well have been a (paid) dlc
19:17:24  <Alkel_U3> specifically I was talking about this (mainly the slopes)
19:18:24  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i quite like cities skylines, but some things are just a tiny bit annoying... like when road building snaps to a thing you don't want it to snap
19:18:48  <Eddi|zuHause> only mod i use so far is a traffic manager thing where i can forbid left turns and stuff
19:18:51  <glx> or the silly curves
19:19:15  <Eddi|zuHause> but i think i need one with a bigger train station next
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19:27:44  <Alkel_U3> I quite like how C:S forced me to upgrade RAM to 12 GiB (from 6) - has been usefull since then
19:31:57  <Wolf01> Strange format you have...
19:34:13  <Alkel_U3> are you refering to the amount of RAM not being a power of two or it being written in gibibytes?
19:34:35  <Wolf01> The former
19:36:05  <Alkel_U3> oh. Well, I started out at 2*2 and always just swapped the smaller module for a twice as big one
19:38:09  <Alkel_U3> I was thinking about leveling it to 16 but the prices of RAM more than doubled since I last purchased that 8GiB one (that was under 20 EUR)
19:41:15  <Wolf01> Time to purchase a new rig with cheap ram :P
19:44:26  <Eddi|zuHause> i once had a computer with 1GB ram which ran fine, then i upgraded to one with 4GB, and it was immediately too little
19:44:36  <Eddi|zuHause> i upgraded to 12GB later
19:44:53  <Eddi|zuHause> where the 8GB upgrade cost about half as much as the original 4GB
19:45:58  <Eddi|zuHause> hmz... now i'm stuck trying to connect two parallel tracks...
19:50:49  <Eddi|zuHause> wow, that looks terrible
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19:53:38  <V453000> !pw
19:53:42  <V453000> yeye sure
19:54:20  <andythenorth_> Eddi|zuHause nah, it's definitely months
19:54:34  <andythenorth_> commit rate isn't that high
19:54:53  <andythenorth_> Takes time to discover why latest bright idea sucks :p
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20:00:30  <Eddi|zuHause> didn't we have a "bot" once that kicked people who mistakenly post coop commands here? :p
20:01:42  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... despite all the covfefe, my trains still deadlock
20:02:29  <Eddi|zuHause> and i definitely need a bigger station
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20:03:51  <Wolf01> \o/ internet is back
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20:33:48  <glx> <Eddi|zuHause> didn't we have a "bot" once that kicked people who mistakenly post coop commands here? :p <-- not a bot, me, but I don't have all commands in the script ;)
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21:08:48  <Eddi|zuHause> glx: yeah, i did put the "" deliberately :p
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