Log for #openttd on 3rd August 2017:
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06:36:54  <dihedral> hej hej
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07:06:59  <Alberth> molin
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07:14:51  <V453000> yo
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07:16:31  <V453000> vs
07:16:32  <V453000> :)
07:18:26  <Arveen2> i still have concept-1.png open in a browser tab
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07:36:47  <V453000> :D
07:39:26  <LordAro> mm, cell shading
07:44:17  <Alberth> V: sooo much better :)
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08:34:09  <planetmaker> nice signals :)
08:35:20  <planetmaker> the first one looks nicer with the dirt on the posts, the 2nd one a bit cleaner and clearer. But I don't think that overrules the gain in looks in the first one
08:40:05  <Alberth> 2nd one gets a very bland look imho
08:42:49  <Alberth> new version is much better
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08:46:25  <Alberth> o/
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08:48:30  <Wolf01> o/
08:48:32  <__ln__> night/morning Wolf01
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08:55:04  <Alberth> o/
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13:35:10  <Wolf01> So... if I have a voxel model (made with various parts), how do I animate it?
13:35:49  <V453000> yes
13:35:58  <V453000> just tell blender to do things
13:36:10  <Wolf01> Eh... I don't use blender :(
13:36:17  <V453000> rekt then
13:36:22  <Wolf01> Good
13:37:32  <Wolf01> Maybe I'll keep the tracks static and fuck, the turret is already static
13:38:15  <V453000> planetmaker: thanks :)
13:38:21  <V453000> Wolf01: what horrible thing are you working on?
13:39:58  <Wolf01>
13:40:48  <V453000> no offense, but I think I am starting to grow an allergy to voxels, fucking minecraft :)
13:43:20  <Wolf01> I'm not able to do 3D
13:43:50  <V453000> 2D isn't wrong :)
13:44:03  <Wolf01> I wanted to make it 3d :P
13:44:19  <V453000> well even for making voxels you have to be able to do 3D
13:44:40  <V453000> of course you don't need to know as many polygon modelling tools, but it's more about the concept
13:45:08  <V453000> take example, I also thought making BRIX in a clean style made out of just bricks is going to be easier
13:45:14  <Wolf01> No, I'm not able to model at all, I already tried and can't make anything which is not a tutorial
13:45:24  <V453000> from my current experience I know that it's actually much harder
13:45:51  <V453000> did you try to draw a quick sketch on paper? doesn't need to be well drawn or anything
13:46:05  <Wolf01> I'm not able to draw on paper too XD
13:46:08  <V453000> me neither
13:46:12  <V453000> and that's fine
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13:48:17  <V453000> even when I was making nuts I was drawing totally random bricks which didn't really even resemble trains
13:48:26  <Wolf01> I don't have sense of proportions, I just assemble stuff until I'm fine with it, on paper it doesn't even work, but I can do pixel drawing by copying stuff, and only top/front/lateral views, to make an isometric thing I need voxels
13:48:29  <V453000> but you just draw around and it gives you the idea what you want to create
13:48:42  <V453000> when I just open blender and start doing random things I usually run out of ideas very fast
13:49:10  <V453000> I don't have a good sense of proportions either
13:49:57  <Wolf01> I can do technical drawing on paper, but I don't have any space to do it, and it takes too much work with rulers, compass etc
13:50:01  <V453000> by all means use whatever you want, but if I can give you a suggestion, try to sketch things when you are not at the computer :)
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13:50:21  <V453000> lines don't need to be by a ruler ;)
13:50:26  <V453000> just get a square paper
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14:00:59  <Wolf01> I can't see how it can help me to make 3D models, I already have the ideas, I just can't use the tools
14:03:39  <Wolf01> It took me a week to design a bookshelf in 3D, keeping all the right sizes etc, maybe if I just used autocad instead of sketchup it would have been better
14:23:45  <Alberth> I make a 3d model by assembling elementary shapes based on 3d coordinates, then throw it into a renderer
14:25:10  <Alberth> much drawing is much like programming, you suck at it for the first few years :)
14:28:22  <Wolf01> BTW, we are going really off-offtopic, my question was how to move voxels in a program not how to learn 3D drawing :P
14:30:26  <Alberth> oh, translate all coordinates, isn't it?
14:30:42  <Alberth> by the same amount is probably a good idea :)
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14:31:21  <Wolf01> Yeah, that was my thought too
14:32:16  <Alberth> moving the camera would also work, depending on how you measure "move voxels"
14:34:21  <Wolf01> Oh, moving the models is not hard, they already rotate and I can make them rotate in circles or other things, it's animating the voxel itself which seem to be hard and I'm not going to write code for every single movement
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14:37:19  <Alberth> I don't understand what "animating the voxel" means
14:37:39  <Wolf01> When I have a model composed of different parts
14:37:48  <Wolf01> Which should move independently
14:37:53  <Alberth> ok
14:38:44  <Alberth> each part is a model, or a unit that you set coordinates and transformations to
14:39:18  <Wolf01> Yup, I did that in 2D many times
14:39:20  <Alberth> then the whole is a collection of those parts, which is likely what you see now as "model"
14:40:30  <Alberth> ie the model is virtual thing, which gives a common base vector. Relative to that base vector you set each part, and those you actually draw
14:41:08  <Alberth> at least I think that is how it works, never done anything like that :)
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15:06:46  <Wolf01> I still can't understand why it rotates on 2 axis (X and Z) when I rotate on X only
15:09:17  <Wolf01> Meh... the tutorial site is down
15:10:20  <Alkel_U3> does roadhog or anything have this?
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15:18:39  <Wolf01> I should really start to learn unity
15:19:10  <Wolf01> And do things without knowing how to create evverything from scratch
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15:56:19  <Alberth> ability to define a transform doesn't go away, probably :)
15:57:33  <Wolf01> Probably, but then I don't need to reinvent the camera, I should implement a gimbal lock but it doesn't seem to work
15:59:11  <Alberth> rotation around X axis is also on wikipedia, I would guess
15:59:48  <Wolf01> I have the same problem as seen as in most 3D softwares when you rotate the model with the mouse, if you rotate one axis per time is all right, when you rotate X and Y a magical Z rotation appears
16:00:50  <Wolf01> It's good for an airplane, not so good for a camera which looks at the terrain
16:02:54  <Wolf01> Also I need to lock the movement on axis and not to the camera view
16:05:27  <Alberth> I am not sure that is wrong, you only need 2 rotation axes for 3d
16:06:03  <Wolf01> Yes, up and forward
16:07:25  <Alberth> not sure what having X and Y is useful for
16:08:36  <Alberth> just rotate around "up", and move vertically would be enough ?
16:09:07  <Wolf01> That's what I'm doing
16:09:26  <Alberth> so why do you rotate around 2 axes?
16:09:45  <Wolf01> Forward = Vector3.Transform(Forward, Matrix.CreateFromAxisAngle(Up, amount));
16:10:12  <Wolf01> For the pitch
16:10:29  <Wolf01> I'm looking at 45°
16:10:55  <Wolf01> But I want to be able to change that
16:11:16  <Wolf01> Also Z stays 0 only when pitch is 0
16:11:25  <Alberth> hmm, maybe you don't rotate around the center point?
16:12:16  <Alberth> DirectX magic is quite magical to me, I have no knowledge what those functions do
16:13:04  <Wolf01> I got the code from here, which is for a spaceship indeed...
16:13:15  <Wolf01> It was from a tutorial which is not online anymore
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16:14:32  <Wolf01> And I'm struggling with the camera because 98% of tutorials are for unity
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16:16:31  <Alberth> the only camera I ever created was fixed, and looking straight down :p
16:16:50  <Wolf01> :P
16:17:22  <Alberth> required some computation to get everything in view, but that was about it :)
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16:18:46  <Alberth> where I manually constructed the matrices at first, and later by glm
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16:36:21  <Wolf01> Quak
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16:47:24  <frosch123> moo
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16:57:08  <Wolf01> Ooops, I committed again too much
17:07:27  <Alberth> with git, I usually commit not enough :p
17:27:59  <Wolf01> I think I have the axis wrong... I modify up and the view rotates along forward
17:38:47  <Alberth> that sounds wrong at least :)
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19:18:28  <Wolf01> Good, now that I'm pissed off by not being able to fix the camera, I don't know what to do now
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20:23:17  <andythenorth_> o/
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