Log for #openttd on 6th August 2017:
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00:04:23  <Wolf01> 'night
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06:35:37  <andythenorth> o/
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08:55:27  <Eddi|zuHause> uhm... what?
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09:19:28  <Wolf01> o/
09:22:34  <Wolf01> Another update to space engineers... almost 3 every week... too bad I didn't learn how to play it and wreck everything each time
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09:39:40  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... deciding whether to use metro overhaul mod... seems a bit dicey from the descriptions/comments
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11:20:28  <Alberth> o/
11:25:09  <Wolf01> o/
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11:46:52  <andythenorth> eh
11:47:01  <andythenorth> the theory of making trains all same length
11:47:04  <andythenorth> is only good in theory
11:48:30  <andythenorth> :|
11:49:35  <andythenorth> it makes it hard to create difference between generations
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12:14:57  <Wolf01> Make different liveries
12:15:32  <Wolf01> Did you ship the depot patch?
12:21:27  <andythenorth> :|
12:21:41  <andythenorth> we need help
12:30:10  <Wolf01> I need serious help
12:36:46  * andythenorth crashed ottd
12:36:49  <andythenorth> there’s a lot of that
12:41:23  <andythenorth> ach I really just need to use 10/8
12:41:28  <andythenorth> or change this engine
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13:00:24  <andythenorth> crashed ottd, again :P
13:02:25  <LordAro> andythenorth: you should file a bug report
13:03:22  <andythenorth> with all the others in FS? o_O
13:03:27  <LordAro> ;)
13:03:37  <andythenorth> “Invalid report: newgrfs changed”
13:03:52  <andythenorth> I don’t know why changing the grfid of a running newgrf causes ottd to crash :(
13:03:55  <andythenorth> seems brittle
13:04:29  <LordAro> imo, ottd shouldn't ever be able to crash
13:04:34  <LordAro> in a perfect world
13:04:46  <LordAro> might get to say "your game is now unusable, gj"
13:04:49  <LordAro> but not crash
13:09:07  <andythenorth> it does give me an assert message :)
13:09:11  <andythenorth> except when it locks hard
13:10:17  <LordAro> hehe
13:10:25  <Flygon> It's not a crash until the CPU locks up and gives you an illegal instruction warning.
13:10:27  <LordAro> see what it does when NDEBUG is defined :p
13:10:43  <Flygon> Somehow. On a 2017-era CPU.
13:10:59  <LordAro> they do happen from time to time, aiui
13:11:41  <LordAro> like this tangentally related thing
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13:24:59  <Flygon> Yowch.
13:54:28  <andythenorth>
13:54:31  <andythenorth> is it better?
13:54:34  * andythenorth isn’t sure
13:59:51  <andythenorth> 4/8 is very short for an engine
14:03:57  <Alberth> useful for re-arranging wagons at a station :)
14:04:20  <Alberth> also, depends on its power :)
14:04:40  <Alberth> or rather, TE, I guess
14:04:45  <andythenorth> it’s unrealistically powerful and can go 85mph :P
14:05:36  <andythenorth> the new sprite is remarkably similar to this
14:05:46  <andythenorth> but the stats are for this ;)
14:06:36  <andythenorth> I would rather it was 6/8 long, but I can’t figure out a scheme where that works
14:09:45  <andythenorth> with a 6/8 caboose and 4/8 wagons it would work
14:10:47  <andythenorth> 8/8 wagons not so much
14:11:09  <andythenorth> but 8/8 wagons don’t make an integer length with 4/8 wagon either :P
14:11:14  <andythenorth> so what’s lost? o_O
14:15:50  <andythenorth> is it this?
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14:27:10  <andythenorth>
14:30:02  <Alberth> as I said before, I don't mind different length vehicles :)
14:30:41  <Alberth> consistency is a way to avoid having to consider something
14:31:08  <Alberth> which works great in my experience with stuff you really don't want to think about
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14:31:34  <Alberth> creating consistency does need a very good mind, it's very easy to mess up :)
14:32:25  <Alberth> ie, a code style is just for avoiding thinking about code layout and/or useless discussions about it
14:33:04  <Alberth> it also means you can worry about other things instead :p
14:36:50  <andythenorth> because IH is ‘slightly realistic’
14:37:00  <andythenorth> it creates a new game called ‘search google for weird prototypes'
14:37:27  <andythenorth> on balance it might be better to not always have integer lengths :P
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14:40:20  <andythenorth>
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14:59:41  <Alberth> haha :)
14:59:58  <Alberth> just make a set of cabeese to get to a full tile :p
15:00:28  <andythenorth> oh :|
15:00:34  <andythenorth> that was actually my serious plan :P
15:01:05  <Alberth> make all dual-heads, with the matching caboose, and you're done?
15:01:11  <andythenorth> frosch suggested that :P
15:01:19  <Alberth> V too, iirc
15:01:27  <andythenorth> something weird about it
15:01:31  <andythenorth> oh, double-heading
15:01:43  <andythenorth> it breaks for multiple engines on one train
15:01:53  <Alberth> hmm, good point
15:03:54  <andythenorth> I might have to do some 10/8 engines too :P
15:04:08  <andythenorth> forcing the big engines to 8/8 or 12/8 is weird
15:04:19  <andythenorth> makes visual progression hard across generations
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15:05:18  <andythenorth> how many restaurant cars on a pax train? o_O
15:10:08  <andythenorth> ha ha, even this
15:10:13  <andythenorth> 6/8 IRL :P
15:10:30  <andythenorth> 10/8 engine, 8/8 coaches, 6/8 observation car :P
15:17:16  <Wolf01> Mmmh
15:17:40  <Alberth> what would it observe?
15:24:57  <andythenorth> back of the train :)
15:25:03  <andythenorth> observes pixels :P
15:27:35  <andythenorth> wondering if I can provide a payment bonus if it’s in the train
15:27:37  <andythenorth> probly
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15:50:41  <Eddi|zuHause> ... i think i fell into a "trying to mod this game"-metagame bottomless pit that ultimately will destroy the game for me
15:50:44  <Eddi|zuHause> like with KSP
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15:52:41  <andythenorth> is it TF?
15:52:51  <Eddi|zuHause> no, cities skylines
15:54:32  <andythenorth> “the finest city builder in over a decade.”
15:54:36  * andythenorth doesn’t play games :)
15:54:56  <Eddi|zuHause> it's certainly less crashy than sim city 4
15:55:17  <Eddi|zuHause> and there was no sim city 5
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15:56:52  <Eddi|zuHause> where does steam put workshop content?
16:09:02  <Wolf01> Usually in steamapps\workshop
16:09:34  <Wolf01> You need to get the app id to find what you want
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16:33:23  * andythenorth researches trains :P
16:35:26  <andythenorth> railway post office coach
16:38:00  <Eddi|zuHause> should i restart the game with vanilla?
16:38:31  <andythenorth> yup
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16:42:22  <andythenorth> should I keep the combine coach?
16:42:42  <andythenorth> (carries pax and mail simultaneously - fake articulated)
16:49:47  * andythenorth has ideas
16:52:40  <Alberth> combine was a fun idea, but there are too many passengers :)
16:53:01  <Alberth> ie ratio mail / passengers is way off )
17:00:43  <andythenorth> if I make it actually articulated
17:00:52  <andythenorth> (which is actually realism)
17:01:13  <andythenorth> a 6/8 small engine can go with a 10/8 combine coach for a nice 1 tile train
17:01:29  <andythenorth> and no hidden vehicle stuff needed
17:01:40  <andythenorth> what ratio would be better?
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17:17:39  <andythenorth> payment bonus for mail if a post-office coach is in the train? o_O
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17:19:45  <andythenorth> hmm, maybe not
17:47:19  <Alberth> not sure about the ratio, but run aan passenger service between two big towns :)
17:47:54  <Alberth> maybe the passenger / mail ratio is different for small houses vs eg sky scrapers?
17:48:13  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i moved my water pumps from above the dam to below the dam (because they apparently drive down the effectiveness of the dam), but that flooded some houses next to the dam
17:48:13  <Alberth> I usually serve small towns
17:49:34  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so post office coach is effectively a dining car for mail?
17:50:31  <Eddi|zuHause> dam output went from 400 to 600kW
17:50:35  <Eddi|zuHause> MW
17:54:03  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: could be :P
17:54:17  <andythenorth> but I think it would need mail capacity, whereas dining car…wouldn’t
17:54:19  <andythenorth> dunno why
17:54:35  <andythenorth> and if it has capacity AND payment bonus, you’d always use it
17:59:21  <Alberth> payment bonus has no impact on income whatsoever :p  You get more than you can spend anyway
17:59:46  <andythenorth> restaurant car seems neat for some reason
17:59:47  <andythenorth> dunno why
18:01:08  <andythenorth> this depot lines patch is really useful :D
18:04:41  <V453000> depot lines?
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18:07:48  <andythenorth> V453000:
18:08:57  <V453000> that's a nice idea but assumes that the graphics have the right sizes XD
18:09:54  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe i should have looked up what the space elevator does before building it?
18:10:46  <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: Something like the dome arcologies in SC2k?
18:11:14  <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: it basically spews out hundreds of tourists that need to be transported somewhere
18:11:27  <FLHerne> Oh, ok
18:11:49  <FLHerne> It actually has real transport logistics?
18:12:10  <FLHerne> I remember SC2k simulating traffic very badly
18:12:18  <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: i did build arcologies in sc2k but i have no clue what they actually did, besides hold 10k-ish people
18:12:37  <FLHerne> After a while, they blasted into space and set fire to things
18:12:48  <FLHerne> (only the futuristic dome ones)
18:12:52  <FLHerne> Not really sure why
18:12:54  <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: well, cities skylines is basically a spinoff of cities in motion, so it does have transport stuff builtin :p
18:13:20  <Eddi|zuHause> i have not actually played cities in motion, though
18:13:47  <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: uhm, i've never seen that happen
18:16:44  <FLHerne> I used to build big lines of them just too see it happen, it was fairly cool
18:18:20  <FLHerne> Video, which is less fun than I remembered
18:18:28  <FLHerne> Possibly things are more fun when you're 10
18:18:42  <andythenorth> quak also
18:19:01  <frosch123> moi
18:19:07  <frosch123> so much fs spam
18:24:18  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: sc2k is not a game that has aged well
18:26:15  <frosch123> i played sc1 and then tried sc2k where i always failed
18:26:38  <V453000> STARCRAFT 2000 ?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!? GG
18:26:43  <frosch123> some years ago someone told me that you can just build everything and fund at 5% and everyone will be happy
18:26:50  <Eddi|zuHause> i failed sc1 much more than 2k
18:27:01  <frosch123> i tried and sc2k turned out easy as f
18:27:23  <frosch123> maybe i would have been better at sc2k if i did not know sc1 :p
18:27:28  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, don't put taxes to 20% :p
18:27:52  <Eddi|zuHause> and don't ever change the road funding setting
18:28:00  <frosch123> V453000: sc:r has more pixels, but still no slugs
18:28:07  <frosch123> or do reavers count as slugs?
18:28:31  <V453000> they do actually
18:29:08  <FLHerne> Eh, the way SC2k's balanced has some upsides
18:29:28  <frosch123> V453000: isn't a reaver more like a caterpillar?
18:29:41  <V453000> IZ SLUG
18:29:42  <FLHerne> You can balance it and sandbox your perfect city with no stress
18:29:45  <V453000> QUESTION DON'T
18:30:03  <FLHerne> Or deliberately unbalance it, and play around with crisis management
18:30:36  <FLHerne> (perhaps I wouldn't agree now, it's been years since I last played)
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18:37:14  <andythenorth> frosch123: do you get notifications about FS changes?
18:37:41  <frosch123> those where i added a comment in 2009
18:37:51  * andythenorth went on a spree :P
18:38:26  <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: well the cities skylines monuments are a bit silly in that they reqiure you to mismanage in particular ways, like have high crime rate, or negative money, or lots of abandoned buildings
18:38:29  <andythenorth> I know FS is ultimately a silly game, but it would be nice if it was < 500
18:38:40  <andythenorth> and if 400 of those were people asking for subways, that’s probably fine :P
18:39:25  <frosch123> most recents tasks have fixed by adf attached
18:39:39  <frosch123> i just don't know how to pressure him into committing them himself :p
18:46:42  <andythenorth> I was surprised how many there were
18:46:46  <andythenorth> quite a lot of patches in FS
18:47:07  <frosch123> bug fixes or features?
18:47:23  <andythenorth> possible fixes, small features
18:47:29  <andythenorth> ‘lot’ = handful
18:47:35  <frosch123> i fail to keep up with the fixes
18:47:47  <frosch123> the features are usually meh
18:48:32  <frosch123> like not even using indenting
18:49:17  <frosch123> there more interesting features you will find in juanjo pp etc
18:49:37  <andythenorth> I could go through FS again and find them :P
18:49:58  <frosch123> juanjo stuff you find via forums, or via github meanwhile
18:49:59  <andythenorth> other than applying them myself, I have no way to help review them though :P
18:50:16  <andythenorth> maybe it should be pull requests on github
18:50:17  <andythenorth> dunno
18:51:45  <frosch123> more spam from more platforms? :p
18:53:34  <andythenorth> that too
18:54:02  <andythenorth> :D
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18:56:34  <andythenorth> this would be somewhat useful
18:56:47  * andythenorth hasn’t tested it though
18:57:00  <Eddi|zuHause> tram-avenues need some way to get passenger underpasses :/
19:04:01  <V453000> hand painting might be nice but fuck, is it a lot of work.
19:04:45  <andythenorth> isn’t it
19:04:48  <andythenorth> I would close this
19:04:58  <andythenorth> take the same approach to OS X that apple takes: old versions are dead
19:08:56  <frosch123> i thought we only support the old ones :p
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19:09:59  <andythenorth> I am on 10.12 Sierra :P
19:10:10  <andythenorth> and it builds clean out of the box (after getting deps)
19:10:11  <Eddi|zuHause> depends on what you call "support", i guess?
19:10:24  <andythenorth> Mavericks is 10.9
19:10:26  <andythenorth> dead
19:11:53  <andythenorth> what I’m unsure of is whether all the patches Michi wanted tested were committed
19:11:55  <andythenorth> some were
19:16:21  <V453000> btw andythenorth I think I will just finish the painting nutjob and after I will do the trains
19:16:29  <andythenorth> yay
19:16:31  <V453000> fuck any other ideas for now
19:16:34  <andythenorth> when will you do the ships? o_O
19:16:40  <V453000> by the painting it gets to kind of stable state
19:16:43  <V453000> idk "P
19:16:44  <V453000> :P
19:16:56  <V453000> don't plan ships soon but maybe
19:19:22  <V453000> can just take some trains and scale them up
19:19:23  <V453000> done
19:19:37  <V453000> that actually sounds awfully close to what I might do XD
19:22:14  <V453000> maybe that's the RIGHT way to do ships
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19:45:14  <andythenorth> I can’t repro this
19:45:34  <andythenorth> if it was easily triggered, it would be reported a lot more eh?
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19:53:27  <andythenorth> FS bugs is not a rewarding game :P
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20:02:05  <andythenorth> also bed time
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